The previous owner in my house had put a BBQ on the rear deck. The
BBQ is permanantly secured to the deck, and it is fed as follows: in
the basement there is black pipe fed to just outside the house under
the deck. At that point it changes to flexible copper pipe (3/8" I
think) and fed directly to the BBQ.
Is this the proper way to pipe for a BBQ? I am finishing my basement
and closing the walls, and I need to relocate the line and shut off
valve to a more accessible area in the basement like the laundry room.
And since I need to take the piping apart, I want to know if I can use
the same set up, or should it be done a different way.

Also since the copper pipe under the deck has a lot of extra slack,
can I make the copper-to-black pipe connection inside the house rather
than outside under the deck, assuming I can use copper?

On Feb 24, 9:45*am, Mikepier wrote:
The previous owner in my house had put a *BBQ on the rear deck. The
BBQ is permanantly secured to the deck, and it is fed as follows: in
the basement there is black pipe fed to just outside the house *under
the deck. At that point it changes to flexible copper pipe (3/8" I
think) and fed directly to the BBQ.
Is this the proper way to pipe for a BBQ? *I am finishing my basement
and closing the walls, and I need to relocate the line and shut off
valve to a more accessible area in the basement like the laundry room.
And since I need to take the piping apart, I want to know if I can use
the same set up, or *should it be done a different way.

Also since the copper pipe under the deck has a lot of extra slack,
can I make the copper-to-black pipe connection inside the house rather
than outside under the deck, assuming I can use copper?

I think the short answer to your question is that it's
not code compliant, at least in most places. What has
been and is code compliant just about everywhere for that application
is coated black pipe. Some places also allow galvanized. But more
commonly used is CSST, corrogated stainless steel tubing, which
is a lot easier, faster, to work with. Anything you use is supposed
to be min 18" deep. IDK if all CSST is rated for underground
or they have ones that have different coating.

CSST is supposed to be installed by trained techs only and
most places would not sell it to DIY. But in recent years I've
seen it in either HD or Lowes and I think they have training
book of some kind that's supposed to, well, train you....
The issue is it's a whole different system of attaching
fittings to the tubing. Think of PEX as an example.

If it were my installation, I'd go with black pipe to the outside,
where you'd have a shutoff valve. From there, CSST or
continue with coated/wrapeed black pipe. I've done black pipe
myself. Never did CSST so can't advise on how tricky it is, is it
safe to DIY, etc.

On Feb 24, 10:08*am, "
wrote:
On Feb 24, 9:45*am, Mikepier wrote:

The previous owner in my house had put a *BBQ on the rear deck. The
BBQ is permanantly secured to the deck, and it is fed as follows: in
the basement there is black pipe fed to just outside the house *under
the deck. At that point it changes to flexible copper pipe (3/8" I
think) and fed directly to the BBQ.
Is this the proper way to pipe for a BBQ? *I am finishing my basement
and closing the walls, and I need to relocate the line and shut off
valve to a more accessible area in the basement like the laundry room.
And since I need to take the piping apart, I want to know if I can use
the same set up, or *should it be done a different way.

Also since the copper pipe under the deck has a lot of extra slack,
can I make the copper-to-black pipe connection inside the house rather
than outside under the deck, assuming I can use copper?

I think the short answer to your question is that it's
not code compliant, at least in most places. *What has
been and is code compliant just about everywhere for that application
is coated black pipe. *Some places also allow galvanized. *But more
commonly used is CSST, corrogated stainless steel tubing, which
is a lot easier, faster, to work with. Anything you use is supposed
to be min 18" deep. *IDK if all CSST is rated for underground
or they have ones that have different coating.

CSST is supposed to be installed by trained techs only and
most places would not sell it to DIY. *But in recent years I've
seen it in either HD or Lowes and I think they have training
book of some kind that's supposed to, well, train you....
The issue is it's a whole different system of attaching
fittings to the tubing. *Think of PEX as an example.

If it were my installation, I'd go with black pipe to the outside,
where you'd have a shutoff valve. *From there, CSST or
continue with coated/wrapeed *black pipe. *I've done black pipe
myself. *Never did CSST so can't advise on how tricky it is, is it
safe to DIY, etc.

I just took a look at the common type CSST that Lowes
sells, which is probably what you'd have to use it it's DIY. To use it
for underground, it has to be inside a conduit, so you could run PVC
to protect it. But of course what codes
are adopted vary by area. If it's an easy route, might be
just as easy to use coated black pipe.

On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 06:45:03 -0800 (PST), Mikepier
wrote in
Re
Proper way to pipe NG for outdoor BBQ:

The previous owner in my house had put a BBQ on the rear deck. The
BBQ is permanantly secured to the deck, and it is fed as follows: in
the basement there is black pipe fed to just outside the house under
the deck. At that point it changes to flexible copper pipe (3/8" I
think) and fed directly to the BBQ.
Is this the proper way to pipe for a BBQ?

Yes.

Also since the copper pipe under the deck has a lot of extra slack,
can I make the copper-to-black pipe connection inside the house rather
than outside under the deck, assuming I can use copper?

Yes.

On Feb 24, 10:22*am, "
wrote:
On Feb 24, 10:08*am, "
wrote:





On Feb 24, 9:45*am, Mikepier wrote:

The previous owner in my house had put a *BBQ on the rear deck. The
BBQ is permanantly secured to the deck, and it is fed as follows: in
the basement there is black pipe fed to just outside the house *under
the deck. At that point it changes to flexible copper pipe (3/8" I
think) and fed directly to the BBQ.
Is this the proper way to pipe for a BBQ? *I am finishing my basement
and closing the walls, and I need to relocate the line and shut off
valve to a more accessible area in the basement like the laundry room..
And since I need to take the piping apart, I want to know if I can use
the same set up, or *should it be done a different way.

Also since the copper pipe under the deck has a lot of extra slack,
can I make the copper-to-black pipe connection inside the house rather
than outside under the deck, assuming I can use copper?

I think the short answer to your question is that it's
not code compliant, at least in most places. *What has
been and is code compliant just about everywhere for that application
is coated black pipe. *Some places also allow galvanized. *But more
commonly used is CSST, corrogated stainless steel tubing, which
is a lot easier, faster, to work with. Anything you use is supposed
to be min 18" deep. *IDK if all CSST is rated for underground
or they have ones that have different coating.

CSST is supposed to be installed by trained techs only and
most places would not sell it to DIY. *But in recent years I've
seen it in either HD or Lowes and I think they have training
book of some kind that's supposed to, well, train you....
The issue is it's a whole different system of attaching
fittings to the tubing. *Think of PEX as an example.

If it were my installation, I'd go with black pipe to the outside,
where you'd have a shutoff valve. *From there, CSST or
continue with coated/wrapeed *black pipe. *I've done black pipe
myself. *Never did CSST so can't advise on how tricky it is, is it
safe to DIY, etc.

I just took a look at the common type CSST that Lowes
sells, which is probably what you'd have to use it it's DIY. To use it
for underground, it has to be inside a conduit, so you could run PVC
to protect it. *But of course what codes
are adopted vary by area. *If it's an easy route, might be
just as easy to use coated black pipe.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just to clarify, the existing piping does not go underground. Where it
exits the house is under a 4 foot high deck, and the copper piping is
fastened to the deck joists underneath, then comes up to the BBQ on
the deck.

On Feb 24, 11:10*am, Mikepier wrote:
On Feb 24, 10:22*am, "
wrote:





On Feb 24, 10:08*am, "
wrote:

On Feb 24, 9:45*am, Mikepier wrote:

The previous owner in my house had put a *BBQ on the rear deck. The
BBQ is permanantly secured to the deck, and it is fed as follows: in
the basement there is black pipe fed to just outside the house *under
the deck. At that point it changes to flexible copper pipe (3/8" I
think) and fed directly to the BBQ.
Is this the proper way to pipe for a BBQ? *I am finishing my basement
and closing the walls, and I need to relocate the line and shut off
valve to a more accessible area in the basement like the laundry room.
And since I need to take the piping apart, I want to know if I can use
the same set up, or *should it be done a different way.

Also since the copper pipe under the deck has a lot of extra slack,
can I make the copper-to-black pipe connection inside the house rather
than outside under the deck, assuming I can use copper?

I think the short answer to your question is that it's
not code compliant, at least in most places. *What has
been and is code compliant just about everywhere for that application
is coated black pipe. *Some places also allow galvanized. *But more
commonly used is CSST, corrogated stainless steel tubing, which
is a lot easier, faster, to work with. Anything you use is supposed
to be min 18" deep. *IDK if all CSST is rated for underground
or they have ones that have different coating.

CSST is supposed to be installed by trained techs only and
most places would not sell it to DIY. *But in recent years I've
seen it in either HD or Lowes and I think they have training
book of some kind that's supposed to, well, train you....
The issue is it's a whole different system of attaching
fittings to the tubing. *Think of PEX as an example.

If it were my installation, I'd go with black pipe to the outside,
where you'd have a shutoff valve. *From there, CSST or
continue with coated/wrapeed *black pipe. *I've done black pipe
myself. *Never did CSST so can't advise on how tricky it is, is it
safe to DIY, etc.

I just took a look at the common type CSST that Lowes
sells, which is probably what you'd have to use it it's DIY. To use it
for underground, it has to be inside a conduit, so you could run PVC
to protect it. *But of course what codes
are adopted vary by area. *If it's an easy route, might be
just as easy to use coated black pipe.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just to clarify, the existing piping does not go underground. Where it
exits the house is under a 4 foot high deck, and the copper piping is
fastened to the deck joists underneath, then comes up to the BBQ on
the deck.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Allow me to correct what I said earlier. After seeing CRNG's
post I did a bit more research. Here is what the National Fuel
Gas Code actually says about copper tubing:

"403.5.2 Copper and brass tubing. Copper tubing shall
comply with Standard Type K or L ofASTM B 88 orASTM
B 280.
Copper and brass tubing shall not be used if the gas contains
more than an average of 0.3 grains of hydrogen sulfide
per 100 standard cubic feet of gas (0.7 milligrams per 100
liters)."


The latter part is where some of the differences regarding
using copper come from by state and gas supplier. Apparently
most nat gas is cleaner today than it
used to be. In aeas where the suppy had hydrogen sulfide,
that reacted with the copper. But some areas may still not allow
copper because the code hasn't changed or they have
reason to believe the gas could contain too much HS.
The only way you'll
know for sure is to check with the local gas company or plumbing
code official. You could try googling for "copper gas pipe" with the
name of your gas company or state. And you may be perfectly
fine with your settup. For sure, if copper is allowed, it's going
to be the easiest method for you.

I would put an accessible shutoff valve in the basement near
where the pipe exits to go outside, though apparently that is
not a code reqt. Code does require a shutoff valve, seperate
from the appliance, within 6 ft. That could be just before the
quick disconnect, which is what people typically use.

Here is the IFGC so you can read for yourself:

https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/states/nj_gas.pdf

Relevant section starts on page 64

On 2/24/2013 9:08 AM, wrote:

But more
commonly used is CSST, corrogated stainless steel tubing, which
is a lot easier, faster, to work with.

I recently took a continuing ed for electricians class. CSST came up
because it has to be bonded to the earthing system. The instructor, an
electrical inspector, has read quite a bit on CSST. It has caused fires
as the result of nearby lightning strikes. The stuff can wind up at a
far different potential that other nearby metal and arc to the metal,
which can cause a hole in the tube. Instructor's comment was that if you
are lucky the arc ignites the leaking gas. The alternative is an explosion.

The question is who does the bonding. His recommendation was to not
touch it; then you won't be named in the law suit. If electricians do
bond it, follow the instructions exactly. Manufacturers have different
instructions. The guy I sat next to had a house built and wouldn't allow
CSST be used. I would use black pipe, copper/flare, or rigid copper pipe
can be used if connections are hard-soldered (like silver solder). (May
vary by jurisdiction.)

On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:56:35 -0600, bud--
wrote:

On 2/24/2013 9:08 AM, wrote:

But more
commonly used is CSST, corrogated stainless steel tubing, which
is a lot easier, faster, to work with.

I recently took a continuing ed for electricians class. CSST came up
because it has to be bonded to the earthing system. The instructor, an
electrical inspector, has read quite a bit on CSST. It has caused fires
as the result of nearby lightning strikes. The stuff can wind up at a
far different potential that other nearby metal and arc to the metal,
which can cause a hole in the tube. Instructor's comment was that if you
are lucky the arc ignites the leaking gas. The alternative is an explosion.

The question is who does the bonding. His recommendation was to not
touch it; then you won't be named in the law suit. If electricians do
bond it, follow the instructions exactly. Manufacturers have different
instructions. The guy I sat next to had a house built and wouldn't allow
CSST be used. I would use black pipe, copper/flare, or rigid copper pipe
can be used if connections are hard-soldered (like silver solder). (May
vary by jurisdiction.)
I just did my gas BarB Q last fall. EVERY gasfitter I called wanted
to use the yellowjacket corrugated stainless crap because they were
too lazy to thread iron pipe. I decided I'd do all the fitting of the
pipe and see what the fitters wanted to do the install and test. SAME
PRICE!! And I was supplying the material, cut and threaded to fit.

Third guy I asked sais "you can cut and fit the iron?? Install it
yourself - no law against it - just call the gas co for an inspection
when you are done - so that's what I did. The inspector said "real
nice job" and gave me the tag - no charge.

On Feb 24, 12:56*pm, bud-- wrote:
On 2/24/2013 9:08 AM, wrote:



But more
commonly used is CSST, corrogated stainless steel tubing, which
is a lot easier, faster, to work with.

I recently took a continuing ed for electricians class. CSST came up
because it has to be bonded to the earthing system. The instructor, an
electrical inspector, has read quite a bit on CSST. It has caused fires
as the result of nearby lightning strikes. The stuff can wind up at a
far different potential that other nearby metal and arc to the metal,
which can cause a hole in the tube. Instructor's comment was that if you
are lucky the arc ignites the leaking gas. The alternative is an explosion.

On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 10:29:07 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Feb 24, 12:56*pm, bud-- wrote:
On 2/24/2013 9:08 AM, wrote:



But more
commonly used is CSST, corrogated stainless steel tubing, which
is a lot easier, faster, to work with.

I recently took a continuing ed for electricians class. CSST came up
because it has to be bonded to the earthing system. The instructor, an
electrical inspector, has read quite a bit on CSST. It has caused fires
as the result of nearby lightning strikes. The stuff can wind up at a
far different potential that other nearby metal and arc to the metal,
which can cause a hole in the tube. Instructor's comment was that if you
are lucky the arc ignites the leaking gas. The alternative is an explosion.

The question is who does the bonding. His recommendation was to not
touch it; then you won't be named in the law suit. If electricians do
bond it, follow the instructions exactly. Manufacturers have different
instructions. The guy I sat next to had a house built and wouldn't allow
CSST be used. I would use black pipe, copper/flare, or rigid copper pipe
can be used if connections are hard-soldered (like silver solder). (May
vary by jurisdiction.)

Curious why there aren't similar problems with say
copper tubing? I can see black iron pipe being more
resistant to a lightning strike because it's large, thick and
has a high melting point. But what about 3/8 copper tubing?
Or is it that the ripples in the corrugated are a big
part of the problem because they increase the impedance?

Perhaps the difference is the conductivity of the fittings?

Mikepier wrote:
The previous owner in my house had put a BBQ on the rear deck. The
BBQ is permanantly secured to the deck, and it is fed as follows: in
the basement there is black pipe fed to just outside the house under
the deck. At that point it changes to flexible copper pipe (3/8" I
think) and fed directly to the BBQ.
Is this the proper way to pipe for a BBQ? I am finishing my basement
and closing the walls, and I need to relocate the line and shut off
valve to a more accessible area in the basement like the laundry room.
And since I need to take the piping apart, I want to know if I can use
the same set up, or should it be done a different way.

Also since the copper pipe under the deck has a lot of extra slack,
can I make the copper-to-black pipe connection inside the house rather
than outside under the deck, assuming I can use copper?

Thye best person to ask is your local plumbing inspector, since he is the best
to know what he will approve.

On 2/24/2013 12:29 PM, wrote:
On Feb 24, 12:56 pm, wrote:
On 2/24/2013 9:08 AM, wrote:



But more
commonly used is CSST, corrogated stainless steel tubing, which
is a lot easier, faster, to work with.

I recently took a continuing ed for electricians class. CSST came up
because it has to be bonded to the earthing system. The instructor, an
electrical inspector, has read quite a bit on CSST. It has caused fires
as the result of nearby lightning strikes. The stuff can wind up at a
far different potential that other nearby metal and arc to the metal,
which can cause a hole in the tube. Instructor's comment was that if you
are lucky the arc ignites the leaking gas. The alternative is an explosion.

The question is who does the bonding. His recommendation was to not
touch it; then you won't be named in the law suit. If electricians do
bond it, follow the instructions exactly. Manufacturers have different
instructions. The guy I sat next to had a house built and wouldn't allow
CSST be used. I would use black pipe, copper/flare, or rigid copper pipe
can be used if connections are hard-soldered (like silver solder). (May
vary by jurisdiction.)

Curious why there aren't similar problems with say
copper tubing? I can see black iron pipe being more
resistant to a lightning strike because it's large, thick and
has a high melting point. But what about 3/8 copper tubing?
Or is it that the ripples in the corrugated are a big
part of the problem because they increase the impedance?

CSST is really thin - far thinner than copper tubing. That is why even
relatively large stuff (1") is so easy to run. An arc melt a hole in the
thin material.

Gas piping never used to be bonded to the electrical earthing system
where it entered the house. (The NEC prohibits using gas service pipe as
an earthing electrode.) I think all manufacturers now require a bonding
connection at entry (was not required until recently).

The instructor commented on a single 'near' lightning strike (OH) where
5 houses caught fire. At least a couple were 'properly' bonded.

=====
Ask this old house recently had an episode where black pipe was run for
gas. (I think it was, deja vu, for a patio BBQ, with a detachable
outside connection.) Trethewey had an assortment of lengths, including
many short sizes, and he didn't do any cut-and-thread. A run may have
multiple pieces to get the right overall length.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 06:28:04 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

Mikepier wrote:
The previous owner in my house had put a BBQ on the rear deck. The
BBQ is permanantly secured to the deck, and it is fed as follows: in
the basement there is black pipe fed to just outside the house under
the deck. At that point it changes to flexible copper pipe (3/8" I
think) and fed directly to the BBQ.
Is this the proper way to pipe for a BBQ? I am finishing my basement
and closing the walls, and I need to relocate the line and shut off
valve to a more accessible area in the basement like the laundry room.
And since I need to take the piping apart, I want to know if I can use
the same set up, or should it be done a different way.

Also since the copper pipe under the deck has a lot of extra slack,
can I make the copper-to-black pipe connection inside the house rather
than outside under the deck, assuming I can use copper?

Thye best person to ask is your local plumbing inspector, since he is the best
to know what he will approve.

I would do it exactly the way it is currently done now -and add a
shuttof outside before the grill as well - with a lockable handle so
you can turn the gas off and lock it off from outside to prevent
tampering - and not have to turn it off and on from the basement.

On mine I have the lock-off at the meter - which is 10 feet from the
BarBQ - and a normal ball valve at the quick disconnect - the BarBQ is
connected by rubber hose/quick connect about 3 feet from the BarBQ.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:33:42 -0600, bud--
wrote:

On 2/24/2013 12:29 PM, wrote:
On Feb 24, 12:56 pm, wrote:
On 2/24/2013 9:08 AM, wrote:



But more
commonly used is CSST, corrogated stainless steel tubing, which
is a lot easier, faster, to work with.

I recently took a continuing ed for electricians class. CSST came up
because it has to be bonded to the earthing system. The instructor, an
electrical inspector, has read quite a bit on CSST. It has caused fires
as the result of nearby lightning strikes. The stuff can wind up at a
far different potential that other nearby metal and arc to the metal,
which can cause a hole in the tube. Instructor's comment was that if you
are lucky the arc ignites the leaking gas. The alternative is an explosion.

The question is who does the bonding. His recommendation was to not
touch it; then you won't be named in the law suit. If electricians do
bond it, follow the instructions exactly. Manufacturers have different
instructions. The guy I sat next to had a house built and wouldn't allow
CSST be used. I would use black pipe, copper/flare, or rigid copper pipe
can be used if connections are hard-soldered (like silver solder). (May
vary by jurisdiction.)

Curious why there aren't similar problems with say
copper tubing? I can see black iron pipe being more
resistant to a lightning strike because it's large, thick and
has a high melting point. But what about 3/8 copper tubing?
Or is it that the ripples in the corrugated are a big
part of the problem because they increase the impedance?

CSST is really thin - far thinner than copper tubing. That is why even
relatively large stuff (1") is so easy to run. An arc melt a hole in the
thin material.

Gas piping never used to be bonded to the electrical earthing system
where it entered the house. (The NEC prohibits using gas service pipe as
an earthing electrode.) I think all manufacturers now require a bonding
connection at entry (was not required until recently).

The instructor commented on a single 'near' lightning strike (OH) where
5 houses caught fire. At least a couple were 'properly' bonded.

=====
Ask this old house recently had an episode where black pipe was run for
gas. (I think it was, deja vu, for a patio BBQ, with a detachable
outside connection.) Trethewey had an assortment of lengths, including
many short sizes, and he didn't do any cut-and-thread. A run may have
multiple pieces to get the right overall length.

On mine I only needed one pipe cut and threaded - all the rest were
stock lengths. I could have bodged it together with stock lengths, but
would have added another 2 joints. minimum - and Home Despot does the
cut and thread for free if you buy the pipe from them. I bought all
the stock lengths elsewhwere for significantly better price, and just
bought the one shorty from them.

On Monday, February 25, 2013 1:06:41 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:33:42 -0600, bud-- wrote: On 2/24/2013 12:29 PM, wrote: On Feb 24, 12:56 pm, wrote: On 2/24/2013 9:08 AM, wrote: But more commonly used is CSST, corrogated stainless steel tubing, which is a lot easier, faster, to work with. I recently took a continuing ed for electricians class. CSST came up because it has to be bonded to the earthing system. The instructor, an electrical inspector, has read quite a bit on CSST. It has caused fires as the result of nearby lightning strikes. The stuff can wind up at a far different potential that other nearby metal and arc to the metal, which can cause a hole in the tube. Instructor's comment was that if you are lucky the arc ignites the leaking gas. The alternative is an explosion. The question is who does the bonding. His recommendation was to not touch it; then you won't be named in the law suit. If electricians do bond it, follow the instructions exactly. Manufacturers have different instructions. The guy I sat next to had a house built and wouldn't allow CSST be used. I would use black pipe, copper/flare, or rigid copper pipe can be used if connections are hard-soldered (like silver solder). (May vary by jurisdiction.) Curious why there aren't similar problems with say copper tubing? I can see black iron pipe being more resistant to a lightning strike because it's large, thick and has a high melting point. But what about 3/8 copper tubing? Or is it that the ripples in the corrugated are a big part of the problem because they increase the impedance? CSST is really thin - far thinner than copper tubing. That is why even relatively large stuff (1") is so easy to run. An arc melt a hole in the thin material. Gas piping never used to be bonded to the electrical earthing system where it entered the house. (The NEC prohibits using gas service pipe as an earthing electrode.) I think all manufacturers now require a bonding connection at entry (was not required until recently). The instructor commented on a single 'near' lightning strike (OH) where 5 houses caught fire. At least a couple were 'properly' bonded. ===== Ask this old house recently had an episode where black pipe was run for gas. (I think it was, deja vu, for a patio BBQ, with a detachable outside connection.) Trethewey had an assortment of lengths, including many short sizes, and he didn't do any cut-and-thread. A run may have multiple pieces to get the right overall length. On mine I only needed one pipe cut and threaded - all the rest were stock lengths. I could have bodged it together with stock lengths, but would have added another 2 joints. minimum - and Home Despot does the cut and thread for free if you buy the pipe from them. I bought all the stock lengths elsewhwere for significantly better price, and just bought the one shorty from them.

In the US many locations don't allow copper. I'd go black iron to the outside, shutoff valve there, and flex stainless steel from there to the grill under the deck.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:31:59 -0800 (PST), jamesgang
wrote:

On Monday, February 25, 2013 1:06:41 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:33:42 -0600, bud-- wrote: On 2/24/2013 12:29 PM, wrote: On Feb 24, 12:56 pm, wrote: On 2/24/2013 9:08 AM, wrote: But more commonly used is CSST, corrogated stainless steel tubing, which is a lot easier, faster, to work with. I recently took a continuing ed for electricians class. CSST came up because it has to be bonded to the earthing system. The instructor, an electrical inspector, has read quite a bit on CSST. It has caused fires as the result of nearby lightning strikes. The stuff can wind up at a far different potential that other nearby metal and arc to the metal, which can cause a hole in the tube. Instructor's comment was that if you are lucky the arc ignites the leaking gas. The alternative is an explosion. The question is who does the bonding. His recommendation was to not
touch it; then you won't be named in the law suit. If electricians do bond it, follow the instructions exactly. Manufacturers have different instructions. The guy I sat next to had a house built and wouldn't allow CSST be used. I would use black pipe, copper/flare, or rigid copper pipe can be used if connections are hard-soldered (like silver solder). (May vary by jurisdiction.) Curious why there aren't similar problems with say copper tubing? I can see black iron pipe being more resistant to a lightning strike because it's large, thick and has a high melting point. But what about 3/8 copper tubing? Or is it that the ripples in the corrugated are a big part of the problem because they increase the impedance? CSST is really thin - far thinner than copper tubing. That is why even relatively large stuff (1") is so easy to run. An arc melt a hole in the thin material. Gas piping never used to be bonded to the electrical earthing system
where it entered the house. (The NEC prohibits using gas service pipe as an earthing electrode.) I think all manufacturers now require a bonding connection at entry (was not required until recently). The instructor commented on a single 'near' lightning strike (OH) where 5 houses caught fire. At least a couple were 'properly' bonded. ===== Ask this old house recently had an episode where black pipe was run for gas. (I think it was, deja vu, for a patio BBQ, with a detachable outside connection.) Trethewey had an assortment of lengths, including many short sizes, and he didn't do any cut-and-thread. A run may have multiple pieces to get the right overall length. On mine I only needed one pipe cut and threaded - all the rest were stock lengths. I could have bodged it together with stock lengths, but would have added another 2 joints. minimum - and Home Despot does the cut and thread for free if you buy the pipe from them. I bought all the stock lengths elsewhwere for
significantly better price, and just bought the one shorty from them.

In the US many locations don't allow copper. I'd go black iron to the outside, shutoff valve there, and flex stainless steel from there to the grill under the deck.

I'd dissagree - Ose black iron to the "demarkation point" - where you
have a shutoff and usually a quick connect - and rubber flex line from
there to the BarBQ unless the BarBQ is so rigidly mounted that no flex
is required. Soft copper tube is allowed EVERYWHERE for sweet natural
gas, so if you don't want/need a quick disconnect, go with soft copper
the last 3 feet or so. The flexible stainless stuff should NOT be used
outside (many places do not allow it) and I hate the stuff even
inside. Soft copper is fine for virtually all commercial natural gas
- less than .3Grains of Hydrogen Sulphide per 100 cu ft of natural
gas. Well head gas, or "sour gas" is hard on copper pipe. See
Universal Plumbing code 1210.1

Mikepier wrote:
The previous owner in my house had put a BBQ on the rear deck. The
BBQ is permanantly secured to the deck, and it is fed as follows: in
the basement there is black pipe fed to just outside the house under
the deck. At that point it changes to flexible copper pipe (3/8" I
think) and fed directly to the BBQ.
Is this the proper way to pipe for a BBQ? I am finishing my basement
and closing the walls, and I need to relocate the line and shut off
valve to a more accessible area in the basement like the laundry room.
And since I need to take the piping apart, I want to know if I can use
the same set up, or should it be done a different way.

Also since the copper pipe under the deck has a lot of extra slack,
can I make the copper-to-black pipe connection inside the house rather
than outside under the deck, assuming I can use copper?

Which brings to mind another question: Can you bury black iron pipe by
itself or must it be encased in black-iron-pipe-casing-material?

On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:34:06 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Mikepier wrote:
The previous owner in my house had put a BBQ on the rear deck. The
BBQ is permanantly secured to the deck, and it is fed as follows: in
the basement there is black pipe fed to just outside the house under
the deck. At that point it changes to flexible copper pipe (3/8" I
think) and fed directly to the BBQ.
Is this the proper way to pipe for a BBQ? I am finishing my basement
and closing the walls, and I need to relocate the line and shut off
valve to a more accessible area in the basement like the laundry room.
And since I need to take the piping apart, I want to know if I can use
the same set up, or should it be done a different way.

Also since the copper pipe under the deck has a lot of extra slack,
can I make the copper-to-black pipe connection inside the house rather
than outside under the deck, assuming I can use copper?

Which brings to mind another question: Can you bury black iron pipe by
itself or must it be encased in black-iron-pipe-casing-material?

Scotch-kote - green colour coating on the pipe - all joints wrapped -
all damage to the coating also wrapped.

On Feb 25, 4:57*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:31:59 -0800 (PST), jamesgang

wrote:
On Monday, February 25, 2013 1:06:41 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:33:42 -0600, bud-- wrote: On 2/24/2013 12:29 PM, wrote: On Feb 24, 12:56 pm, wrote: On 2/24/2013 9:08 AM, wrote: But more commonly used is CSST, corrogated stainless steel tubing, which is a lot easier, faster, to work with. I recently took a continuing ed for electricians class. CSST came up because it has to be bonded to the earthing system. The instructor, an electrical inspector, has read quite a bit on CSST. It has caused fires as the result of nearby lightning strikes. The stuff can wind up at a far different potential that other nearby metal and arc to the metal, which can cause a hole in the tube. Instructor's comment was that if you are lucky the arc ignites the leaking gas. The alternative is an explosion. The question is who does the bonding. His recommendation was to not
touch it; then you won't be named in the law suit. If electricians do bond it, follow the instructions exactly. Manufacturers have different instructions. The guy I sat next to had a house built and wouldn't allow CSST be used. I would use black pipe, copper/flare, or rigid copper pipe can be used if connections are hard-soldered (like silver solder). (May vary by jurisdiction.) Curious why there aren't similar problems with say copper tubing? I can see black iron pipe being more resistant to a lightning strike because it's large, thick and has a high melting point. But what about 3/8 copper tubing? Or is it that the ripples in the corrugated are a big part of the problem because they increase the impedance? CSST is really thin - far thinner than copper tubing. That is why even relatively large stuff (1") is so easy to run. An arc melt a hole in the thin material. Gas piping never used to be bonded to the electrical earthing system
where it entered the house. (The NEC prohibits using gas service pipe as an earthing electrode.) I think all manufacturers now require a bonding connection at entry (was not required until recently). The instructor commented on a single 'near' lightning strike (OH) where 5 houses caught fire. At least a couple were 'properly' bonded. ===== Ask this old house recently had an episode where black pipe was run for gas. (I think it was, deja vu, for a patio BBQ, with a detachable outside connection.) Trethewey had an assortment of lengths, including many short sizes, and he didn't do any cut-and-thread. A run may have multiple pieces to get the right overall length. On mine I only needed one pipe cut and threaded - all the rest were stock lengths. I could have bodged it together with stock lengths, but would have added another 2 joints. minimum - and Home Despot does the cut and thread for free if you buy the pipe from them. I bought all the stock lengths elsewhwere for
significantly better price, and just bought the one shorty from them.

In the US many locations don't allow copper. *I'd go black iron to the outside, shutoff valve there, and flex stainless steel from there to the grill under the deck.

I'd dissagree - Ose black iron to the "demarkation point" - where you
have a shutoff and usually a quick connect - and rubber flex line from
there to the BarBQ unless the BarBQ is so rigidly mounted that no flex
is required.

Show us in the code where rubber hose is an allowed
means of connection for running a nat gas line......



*Soft copper tube is allowed EVERYWHERE for sweet natural
gas, so if you don't want/need a quick disconnect, go with soft copper
the last 3 feet or so.

How could you know what actually is adopted and allowed
everywhere?