Why is it that whenever I use a propane torch in winter, it causes all
kinds of problems. This never happens in warm weather. And of course
the torches are needed more in winter, for thawing frozen yard hydrants
and everything else that screws up due to winter cold.

First off, the torches never seem to burn properly in cold weather. I
guess the propane is cold so it likes to shoot out flat flames that spit
an sputter and generally be a pain in the ass to use.

But that's just part of the problem. The bigger problem is when the
torch refuses to shut off after using it. I can only guess that
frost/ice builds up on the valve. They never shut off.....
So, the solution to that is to unscrew the torch head from the
disposible cylinder tank. That shuts off the torch flame, but it never
fails, the tank continues to expell gas from the valve where the torch
head was connected. The solution to that seems to be to take the tank
into a heated space, and once they heat up, the quit leaking. However,
taking a leaking propane tank indoors where there are pilot lights and
stuff, not to mention having to breathe raw propane, means that the only
thing to do is leave the tank outside.

Thus, the next day the tank is empty!!!

So, buy a new tank of propane for each and every winter job you do, and
the rest of the gas goes to waste into the air.

Has anyone ever found a solution to this????

On 1/19/2013 2:51 AM, wrote:
Why is it that whenever I use a propane torch in winter, it causes all
kinds of problems. This never happens in warm weather. And of course
the torches are needed more in winter, for thawing frozen yard hydrants
and everything else that screws up due to winter cold.

First off, the torches never seem to burn properly in cold weather. I
guess the propane is cold so it likes to shoot out flat flames that spit
an sputter and generally be a pain in the ass to use.

But that's just part of the problem. The bigger problem is when the
torch refuses to shut off after using it. I can only guess that
frost/ice builds up on the valve. They never shut off.....
So, the solution to that is to unscrew the torch head from the
disposible cylinder tank. That shuts off the torch flame, but it never
fails, the tank continues to expell gas from the valve where the torch
head was connected. The solution to that seems to be to take the tank
into a heated space, and once they heat up, the quit leaking. However,
taking a leaking propane tank indoors where there are pilot lights and
stuff, not to mention having to breathe raw propane, means that the only
thing to do is leave the tank outside.

Thus, the next day the tank is empty!!!

So, buy a new tank of propane for each and every winter job you do, and
the rest of the gas goes to waste into the air.

Has anyone ever found a solution to this????



Where do you suppose the frost that's freezing up on the valve comes
from? Unless there's water in the propane tank, how does it get
into the valve?

You don't say how cold cold is. Or how big the flame.
As the propane evaporates to feed the flame, it gets colder.
At some point, it refuses to evaporate fast enough or condenses
in the hose/pipe and spits out liquid propane. All assuming the tank
is upright.

I gotta say that I've never seen undamaged valves that refuse to shut off.

Have you tried a different torch? Perhaps the connection to the
tank is bent and is damaging the cylinders.

Keep the torch and tanks indoors, so they don't get badly cold?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...
Why is it that whenever I use a propane torch in winter, it causes all
kinds of problems. This never happens in warm weather. And of course
the torches are needed more in winter, for thawing frozen yard hydrants
and everything else that screws up due to winter cold.

First off, the torches never seem to burn properly in cold weather. I
guess the propane is cold so it likes to shoot out flat flames that spit
an sputter and generally be a pain in the ass to use.

But that's just part of the problem. The bigger problem is when the
torch refuses to shut off after using it. I can only guess that
frost/ice builds up on the valve. They never shut off.....
So, the solution to that is to unscrew the torch head from the
disposible cylinder tank. That shuts off the torch flame, but it never
fails, the tank continues to expell gas from the valve where the torch
head was connected. The solution to that seems to be to take the tank
into a heated space, and once they heat up, the quit leaking. However,
taking a leaking propane tank indoors where there are pilot lights and
stuff, not to mention having to breathe raw propane, means that the only
thing to do is leave the tank outside.

Thus, the next day the tank is empty!!!

So, buy a new tank of propane for each and every winter job you do, and
the rest of the gas goes to waste into the air.

Has anyone ever found a solution to this????

On Jan 19, 8:16*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Keep the torch and tanks indoors, so they don't get badly cold?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...
Why is it that whenever I use a propane torch in winter, it causes all
kinds of problems. *This never happens in warm weather. *And of course
the torches are needed more in winter, for thawing frozen yard hydrants
and everything else that screws up due to winter cold.

First off, the torches never seem to burn properly in cold weather. *I
guess the propane is cold so it likes to shoot out flat flames that spit
an sputter and generally be a pain in the ass to use.

But that's just part of the problem. *The bigger problem is when the
torch refuses to shut off after using it. *I can only guess that
frost/ice builds up on the valve. *They never shut off.....
So, the solution to that is to unscrew the torch head from the
disposible cylinder tank. *That shuts off the torch flame, but it never
fails, the tank continues to expell gas from the valve where the torch
head was connected. *The solution to that seems to be to take the tank
into a heated space, and once they heat up, the quit leaking. *However,
taking a leaking propane tank indoors where there are pilot lights and
stuff, not to mention having to breathe raw propane, means that the only
thing to do is leave the tank outside.

Thus, the next day the tank is empty!!!

So, buy a new tank of propane for each and every winter job you do, and
the rest of the gas goes to waste into the air.

Has anyone ever found a solution to this????

my gas grill has issues like the OP. We grill all year long.

Occasionally when its very cold I bring the tank indoors and put it in
my kitchen sink and run hot water over it, otherwise the gas remains a
liquid and the fire burns poorly.

AAs to gas wouldnt shut off I had that occur to my torch I think the
OP should try a new torch with MAPP gas. since i went to mapp all
these problems ended and soldering copper lines got far easier,
because of the higher temperature map burns at.

On Sat, 19 Jan 2013 06:16:12 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

On Jan 19, 8:16*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Keep the torch and tanks indoors, so they don't get badly cold?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

wrote in message

...
Why is it that whenever I use a propane torch in winter, it causes all
kinds of problems. *This never happens in warm weather. *And of course
the torches are needed more in winter, for thawing frozen yard hydrants
and everything else that screws up due to winter cold.

First off, the torches never seem to burn properly in cold weather. *I
guess the propane is cold so it likes to shoot out flat flames that spit
an sputter and generally be a pain in the ass to use.

But that's just part of the problem. *The bigger problem is when the
torch refuses to shut off after using it. *I can only guess that
frost/ice builds up on the valve. *They never shut off.....
So, the solution to that is to unscrew the torch head from the
disposible cylinder tank. *That shuts off the torch flame, but it never
fails, the tank continues to expell gas from the valve where the torch
head was connected. *The solution to that seems to be to take the tank
into a heated space, and once they heat up, the quit leaking. *However,
taking a leaking propane tank indoors where there are pilot lights and
stuff, not to mention having to breathe raw propane, means that the only
thing to do is leave the tank outside.

Thus, the next day the tank is empty!!!

So, buy a new tank of propane for each and every winter job you do, and
the rest of the gas goes to waste into the air.

Has anyone ever found a solution to this????

my gas grill has issues like the OP. We grill all year long.

Occasionally when its very cold I bring the tank indoors and put it in
my kitchen sink and run hot water over it, otherwise the gas remains a
liquid and the fire burns poorly.

AAs to gas wouldnt shut off I had that occur to my torch I think the
OP should try a new torch with MAPP gas. since i went to mapp all
these problems ended and soldering copper lines got far easier,
because of the higher temperature map burns at.


Assuming Home Depot carry this stuff are the cylinders the same as the
Propane cylinders and can I just use this with my existing small
propane torch or do I need to buy a new torch?

Some torches will do either, and some are propane
only. I truly don't know what is the differencd.

HD and Lowes have a Mapp torch that is "self lighting"
and comes with one tank of Mapp. Costs about $40,
which is cheaper than a plumber call later.

Mapp tanks don't work well when cold, keep the tanks
indoors. Worthington had a recall on mapp tanks, get
some other brand.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Ashton Crusher" wrote in message
...

AAs to gas wouldnt shut off I had that occur to my torch I think the
OP should try a new torch with MAPP gas. since i went to mapp all
these problems ended and soldering copper lines got far easier,
because of the higher temperature map burns at.


Assuming Home Depot carry this stuff are the cylinders the same as the
Propane cylinders and can I just use this with my existing small
propane torch or do I need to buy a new torch?

On 1/19/2013 5:51 AM, wrote:
Why is it that whenever I use a propane torch in winter, it causes all
kinds of problems. This never happens in warm weather. And of course
the torches are needed more in winter, for thawing frozen yard hydrants
and everything else that screws up due to winter cold.

First off, the torches never seem to burn properly in cold weather. I
guess the propane is cold so it likes to shoot out flat flames that spit
an sputter and generally be a pain in the ass to use.

But that's just part of the problem. The bigger problem is when the
torch refuses to shut off after using it. I can only guess that
frost/ice builds up on the valve. They never shut off.....
So, the solution to that is to unscrew the torch head from the
disposible cylinder tank. That shuts off the torch flame, but it never
fails, the tank continues to expell gas from the valve where the torch
head was connected. The solution to that seems to be to take the tank
into a heated space, and once they heat up, the quit leaking. However,
taking a leaking propane tank indoors where there are pilot lights and
stuff, not to mention having to breathe raw propane, means that the only
thing to do is leave the tank outside.

Thus, the next day the tank is empty!!!

So, buy a new tank of propane for each and every winter job you do, and
the rest of the gas goes to waste into the air.

Has anyone ever found a solution to this????


I see boiling point of propane is about -40 degrees Fahrenheit. That's
pretty low but when it evaporates it also cools the tank even further.
Don't know what size tank you are using but I've never seen problem
storing the small ones for the torch or propane stove in the house.
Five gallon tanks, I leave out doors.

On Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:09:03 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Some torches will do either, and some are propane
only. I truly don't know what is the differencd.

HD and Lowes have a Mapp torch that is "self lighting"
and comes with one tank of Mapp. Costs about $40,
which is cheaper than a plumber call later.

Mapp tanks don't work well when cold, keep the tanks
indoors. Worthington had a recall on mapp tanks, get
some other brand.

Christopher A. Young

To those who replied, I have several torches and they all screw up in
the cold. Two of them have hoses going to the head, which eliminates
tipping the tank, which I know dumps liquid propane to the flame.

As a comment about Worthington torches and tanks. From personal
experience, I tell everyone to avoid all their products. I bought one
of their self igniting trigger torches. The flame was very tiny and no
bigger than the flame on a Bic lighter. I tried to use it, and the
flame became smaller by the second. After 5 minutes of use, the flame
went out and would not relight. Even applying an external flame to it
did nothing. The gas simply did not come out. (This was indoors and
not in the cold). I returned the torch, and got a replacement (same
model). That one was even worse. It burned for less than a minute and
would not relight.

Before returning it, I went to their website and send them a detailed
email, explaining the problem and asking if this model was defective, or
if there was a bad batch of them, with apparently clogged orfices. I
told them the place I bought them. I then asked them what their
warranty covered, explaining that the store I bought them at, is over 50
miles away (I live in a rural area).

I had expected them to honor their warranty, or make some sort of remedy
for the situation. Three weeks later, I had not gotten a reply email.
I sent the same email again, this time telling them that I had already
sent this on *date* and had not heard back. I told them I expected a
email reply or phone call based on their warranty. I sent the email
with a return receipt this time.

I never heard back from them, and that was over a year ago.

I did return it to the store, and demanded a refund. They gave me a
refund without question, and said that they were getting almost all of
these torches back as defective, and that they were no longer going to
sell any Worthington torches or products, because the company does not
honor their warranty, and is terrible to deal with. The store no longer
sells their products at all, and is a large home supply company.

One final note about this. When I returned the second torch, I had left
it connected to the tank for over a month. Although it never ignited,
the tank was empty. I have no clue where the gas went on a torch that
would not burn after one minute of use.

Avoid Worthington products!

On Jan 19, 2:19*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:09:03 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Some torches will do either, and some are propane
only. I truly don't know what is the differencd.

HD and Lowes have a Mapp torch that is "self lighting"
and comes with one tank of Mapp. Costs about $40,
which is cheaper than a plumber call later.

Mapp tanks don't work well when cold, keep the tanks
indoors. Worthington had a recall on mapp tanks, get
some other brand.

Christopher A. Young

To those who replied, I have several torches and they all screw up in
the cold. *Two of them have hoses going to the head, which eliminates
tipping the tank, which I know dumps liquid propane to the flame.

As a comment about Worthington torches and tanks. *From personal
experience, I tell everyone to avoid all their products. *I bought one
of their self igniting trigger torches. *The flame was very tiny and no
bigger than the flame on a Bic lighter. *I tried to use it, and the
flame became smaller by the second. *After 5 minutes of use, the flame
went out and would not relight. *Even applying an external flame to it
did nothing. *The gas simply did not come out. *(This was indoors and
not in the cold). *I returned the torch, and got a replacement (same
model). *That one was even worse. *It burned for less than a minute and
would not relight.

Before returning it, I went to their website and send them a detailed
email, explaining the problem and asking if this model was defective, or
if there was a bad batch of them, with apparently clogged orfices. *I
told them the place I bought them. *I then asked them what their
warranty covered, explaining that the store I bought them at, is over 50
miles away (I live in a rural area).

I had expected them to honor their warranty, or make some sort of remedy
for the situation. *Three weeks later, I had not gotten a reply email.
I sent the same email again, this time telling them that I had already
sent this on *date* and had not heard back. *I told them I expected a
email reply or phone call based on their warranty. *I sent the email
with a return receipt this time.

I never heard back from them, and that was over a year ago.

I did return it to the store, and demanded a refund. *They gave me a
refund without question, and said that they were getting almost all of
these torches back as defective, and that they were no longer going to
sell any Worthington torches or products, because the company does not
honor their warranty, and is terrible to deal with. *The store no longer
sells their products at all, and is a large home supply company.

One final note about this. *When I returned the second torch, I had left
it connected to the tank for over a month. *Although it never ignited,
the tank was empty. *I have no clue where the gas went on a torch that
would not burn after one minute of use.

Avoid Worthington products!

maybe they should be called Worthless

On Sat, 19 Jan 2013 20:32:39 -0800 (PST), "hr(bob) "
wrote:


As a comment about Worthington torches and tanks. *From personal
experience, I tell everyone to avoid all their products. *I bought one
of their self igniting trigger torches. *The flame was very tiny and no
bigger than the flame on a Bic lighter. *I tried to use it, and the
flame became smaller by the second. *After 5 minutes of use, the flame
went out and would not relight. *Even applying an external flame to it
did nothing. *The gas simply did not come out. *(This was indoors and
not in the cold). *I returned the torch, and got a replacement (same
model). *That one was even worse. *It burned for less than a minute and
would not relight.

Before returning it, I went to their website and send them a detailed
email, explaining the problem and asking if this model was defective, or
if there was a bad batch of them, with apparently clogged orfices. *I
told them the place I bought them. *I then asked them what their
warranty covered, explaining that the store I bought them at, is over 50
miles away (I live in a rural area).

I had expected them to honor their warranty, or make some sort of remedy
for the situation. *Three weeks later, I had not gotten a reply email.
I sent the same email again, this time telling them that I had already
sent this on *date* and had not heard back. *I told them I expected a
email reply or phone call based on their warranty. *I sent the email
with a return receipt this time.

I never heard back from them, and that was over a year ago.

I did return it to the store, and demanded a refund. *They gave me a
refund without question, and said that they were getting almost all of
these torches back as defective, and that they were no longer going to
sell any Worthington torches or products, because the company does not
honor their warranty, and is terrible to deal with. *The store no longer
sells their products at all, and is a large home supply company.

One final note about this. *When I returned the second torch, I had left
it connected to the tank for over a month. *Although it never ignited,
the tank was empty. *I have no clue where the gas went on a torch that
would not burn after one minute of use.

Avoid Worthington products!

maybe they should be called Worthless

That sounds like it makes more sense, because worthless is what their
products are!!!!

I can't see why the valve on a torch wouldn't work properly in cold weather either.

But, in cold weather, propane won't evaporate nearly as fast as in warm weather, and you may have a problem with the torch going out because the liquid propane in the tank isn't evaporating fast enough to keep a strong flame going.

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 05:15:17 +0000, nestork
wrote:


I can't see why the valve on a torch wouldn't work properly in cold
weather either.

But, in cold weather, propane won't evaporate nearly as fast as in warm
weather, and you may have a problem with the torch going out because the
liquid propane in the tank isn't evaporating fast enough to keep a
strong flame going.

Thick frost tends to buildup on all torches when used in very cold
weather. I think it builds up inside the valves too. But thats just a
guess since there is no way to see inside the valve.

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 08:37:07 -0600, wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 05:15:17 +0000, nestork
wrote:


I can't see why the valve on a torch wouldn't work properly in cold
weather either.

But, in cold weather, propane won't evaporate nearly as fast as in warm
weather, and you may have a problem with the torch going out because the
liquid propane in the tank isn't evaporating fast enough to keep a
strong flame going.

Thick frost tends to buildup on all torches when used in very cold
weather. I think it builds up inside the valves too. But thats just a
guess since there is no way to see inside the valve.
Does NOT build ip inside the valve, or torch. It only builds up on
the outside of the tank - and even that would not happen, in, say
Arizona or New Mexico because the humidity is not high enough to
condense out on the tank. Propane itself is a 100% dry gas -
absolutely NO moisture in it.

wrote the following on 1/19/2013 5:51 AM (ET):
Why is it that whenever I use a propane torch in winter, it causes all
kinds of problems. This never happens in warm weather. And of course
the torches are needed more in winter, for thawing frozen yard hydrants
and everything else that screws up due to winter cold.

First off, the torches never seem to burn properly in cold weather. I
guess the propane is cold so it likes to shoot out flat flames that spit
an sputter and generally be a pain in the ass to use.

But that's just part of the problem. The bigger problem is when the
torch refuses to shut off after using it. I can only guess that
frost/ice builds up on the valve. They never shut off.....
So, the solution to that is to unscrew the torch head from the
disposible cylinder tank. That shuts off the torch flame, but it never
fails, the tank continues to expell gas from the valve where the torch
head was connected. The solution to that seems to be to take the tank
into a heated space, and once they heat up, the quit leaking. However,
taking a leaking propane tank indoors where there are pilot lights and
stuff, not to mention having to breathe raw propane, means that the only
thing to do is leave the tank outside.

Thus, the next day the tank is empty!!!

So, buy a new tank of propane for each and every winter job you do, and
the rest of the gas goes to waste into the air.

Has anyone ever found a solution to this????



Warm the tank before you go out. Place it in hot water for a bit, but
don't use a flame.
That's just the way propane works in the cold. Ever try to cook on an
outside propane grill in the cold winter? The meat will go bad before it
gets enough heat to cook.
Nah, that isn't true, it just seems like it does. :-)

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

Cla

While I agree that there won't be any moisture inside the tank, there are ways that "propane frost" could form inside the valve.

There's something called the "Joule-Thompson Effect" which basically says that when a compressed gas is allowed to expand, there's an associated temperature drop in the gas.

Joule

You have a similar thing happening in an air compressor. The head on the air compressor will get quite hot because air heats up when it's compressed. And, on my little air compressor, the fins on the head get way too hot to touch.


What I'm thinking is that if the propane torch is outdoors where the ambient temperature is say -35 degrees Celsius, and propane vapour is expanding through a needle valve to atmospheric pressure, and the tip of the needle is insulated by a packing material that reduces heat transfer from the valve body to the needle, I wouldn't be too surprised if the needle in the valve could actually get as cold as -188 degrees Celsius, which is the freezing temperature of propane. In that case, "propane ice" would begin to form on the needle of the needle valve, thereby preventing it from closing properly.

Not saying that's what's happening, but since both the evaporation of propane absorbs heat, and the expansion of the propane vapour in the valve absorbs heat, and in winter there's not a lot of ambient heat outdoors to begin with, it may be possible to have propane freezing on the needle in the torch's valve causing exactly the same types of problems that water ice would.