What is the donut/conical thing that serves the purpose of a flapper
called?

I'm trying to tell a young friend how to fix his toilet, which won't
stop running.

Although the toilet looks new, the guts are old I guess and built
differently from any toilet I've seen, and I don't even know the names
of the parts to find replacement parts.

It doesn't have a flapper. Instead the big vertical tube that has the
thinner flexiblef filler tube going to it (what's the big tube
called?) has surrounding it a doughut shaped version of the flapper,
mounted at the bottom end of another vertical tube (that also
surrounds the first one). This outer vertical tube is lifted at its
top by the arm that is connected to the toilet handle. No chain is
used.

What is the name of the doughnut/conical shaped thing that serves the
purpose of the flapper? Or the doughnut/outer-tube combination?

Do they still sell replacement parts for something like this?

If not, and I need to replace the filler tube, the vertical plastic
tube that most toilets have, do I really have to remove the tank from
the toilet?

Thanks

On Dec 12, 9:50*pm, micky wrote:
What is the donut/conical *thing that serves the purpose of a flapper
called?

I'm trying to tell a young friend how to fix his toilet, which won't
stop running.

Although the toilet looks new, the guts are old I guess and built
differently from any toilet I've seen, and I don't even know the names
of the parts to find replacement parts.

It doesn't have a flapper. *Instead the big vertical tube that has the
thinner flexiblef filler tube going to it (what's the big tube
called?) has surrounding it a doughut shaped version of the flapper,
mounted at the bottom end of another vertical tube (that also
surrounds the first one). * This outer vertical tube is lifted at its
top by the arm that is connected to the toilet handle. *No chain is
used.

What is the name of the doughnut/conical *shaped thing that serves the
purpose of the flapper? *Or the doughnut/outer-tube combination?

Do they still sell replacement parts for something like this?

If not, and I need to replace the filler tube, the vertical plastic
tube that most toilets have, do I really have to remove the tank from
the toilet?

Thanks

pig nose

On Dec 12, 9:50*pm, micky wrote:
What is the donut/conical *thing that serves the purpose of a flapper
called?

I'm trying to tell a young friend how to fix his toilet, which won't
stop running.

Although the toilet looks new, the guts are old I guess and built
differently from any toilet I've seen, and I don't even know the names
of the parts to find replacement parts.

It doesn't have a flapper. *Instead the big vertical tube that has the
thinner flexiblef filler tube going to it (what's the big tube
called?) has surrounding it a doughut shaped version of the flapper,
mounted at the bottom end of another vertical tube (that also
surrounds the first one). * This outer vertical tube is lifted at its
top by the arm that is connected to the toilet handle. *No chain is
used.

What is the name of the doughnut/conical *shaped thing that serves the
purpose of the flapper? *Or the doughnut/outer-tube combination?

Do they still sell replacement parts for something like this?

If not, and I need to replace the filler tube, the vertical plastic
tube that most toilets have, do I really have to remove the tank from
the toilet?

Thanks

Here's a completed auction for one...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Vintage-...-/170923618141


fyi
On 12/8/1930, a U.S. federal trademark registration was filed for
PIGNOSE. This trademark is owned by KIRKHILL, INC.,
DOWNEY, CA , 90241. The USPTO has given the PIGNOSE trademark serial
number of 71308735.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:50:51 -0500, micky
wrote:

What is the donut/conical thing that serves the purpose of a flapper
called?

I'm trying to tell a young friend how to fix his toilet, which won't
stop running.

Although the toilet looks new, the guts are old I guess and built
differently from any toilet I've seen, and I don't even know the names
of the parts to find replacement parts.

It doesn't have a flapper. Instead the big vertical tube that has the
thinner flexiblef filler tube going to it (what's the big tube
called?) has surrounding it a doughut shaped version of the flapper,
mounted at the bottom end of another vertical tube (that also
surrounds the first one). This outer vertical tube is lifted at its
top by the arm that is connected to the toilet handle. No chain is
used.

What is the name of the doughnut/conical shaped thing that serves the
purpose of the flapper? Or the doughnut/outer-tube combination?

Do they still sell replacement parts for something like this?

If not, and I need to replace the filler tube, the vertical plastic
tube that most toilets have, do I really have to remove the tank from
the toilet?

Thanks

It's called a Ballcock. (dont ya just love that name).....
I always wondered what kind of preverted plumber came up with that name.

Anyhow, these links will tell you the name of each individual part.
Email them to your friend.

http://tinyurl.com/a2sderv
http://tinyurl.com/a3b3bvo

Older toilets had a ball valve instead of a flapper, it did the same
thing, but had a brass shaft on top that the chain connected to.

If you want to replace the flush valve, YES, you do need to remove the
tank.

On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 22:19:44 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:

On Dec 12, 9:50*pm, micky wrote:
What is the donut/conical *thing that serves the purpose of a flapper
called?

I'm trying to tell a young friend how to fix his toilet, which won't
stop running.

Although the toilet looks new, the guts are old I guess and built
differently from any toilet I've seen, and I don't even know the names
of the parts to find replacement parts.

It doesn't have a flapper. *Instead the big vertical tube that has the
thinner flexiblef filler tube going to it (what's the big tube
called?) has surrounding it a doughut shaped version of the flapper,
mounted at the bottom end of another vertical tube (that also
surrounds the first one). * This outer vertical tube is lifted at its
top by the arm that is connected to the toilet handle. *No chain is
used.

What is the name of the doughnut/conical *shaped thing that serves the
purpose of the flapper? *Or the doughnut/outer-tube combination?

Do they still sell replacement parts for something like this?

If not, and I need to replace the filler tube, the vertical plastic
tube that most toilets have, do I really have to remove the tank from
the toilet?

Thanks

Here's a completed auction for one...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Vintage-...-/170923618141


fyi
On 12/8/1930, a U.S. federal trademark registration was filed for
PIGNOSE. This trademark is owned by KIRKHILL, INC.,
DOWNEY, CA , 90241. The USPTO has given the PIGNOSE trademark serial
number of 71308735.

Thanks a lot, esp. for the patent number, but that's not it.

I've given up looking online for the one it has, and I'm goiug to have
to replace the whole flush valve and put in one with a flapper.

But I'm going to describe it again, and try to do a better job, so
you'll see how wierd the one it has now is.

This one (call it a stopper) is at the end of, a plastic tube a
little more than an inch in diameter, and it has a hole in it (a
little bigger than the tube) that surrounds the tube, and both the
tube and the stopper (the equivalent of a pignose or a flapper, except
it has a hole in the middle) surround another tube about an inch in
diameter, which is centered above the hole that goes to the toilet
bowl.

The house is about 50 years old and I assume this is the original
mechanism. despite how new thte toilet looks. .

On 12/12/2012 11:50 PM, micky wrote:
What is the donut/conical thing that serves the purpose of a flapper
called?

I'm trying to tell a young friend how to fix his toilet, which won't
stop running.

Although the toilet looks new, the guts are old I guess and built
differently from any toilet I've seen, and I don't even know the names
of the parts to find replacement parts.

It doesn't have a flapper. Instead the big vertical tube that has the
thinner flexiblef filler tube going to it (what's the big tube
called?) has surrounding it a doughut shaped version of the flapper,
mounted at the bottom end of another vertical tube (that also
surrounds the first one). This outer vertical tube is lifted at its
top by the arm that is connected to the toilet handle. No chain is
used.

What is the name of the doughnut/conical shaped thing that serves the
purpose of the flapper? Or the doughnut/outer-tube combination?

Do they still sell replacement parts for something like this?

If not, and I need to replace the filler tube, the vertical plastic
tube that most toilets have, do I really have to remove the tank from
the toilet?

Thanks

I was not following your description very well.

The flapper thing is called a flush valve. There are some very old
ones, but there are 2 major styles in current use which are both readily
available at Lowes/ HD/ etc:

Korky type: http://www.plumbingsupply.com/flappers.html#korky

Mansfield type: http://www.plumbingsupply.com/mansfield.html

The thing that starts and stops the water is called a fill valve or ball
cock:
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/toilet-fill-valves.html


--


___________________________________

Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:49:06 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:50:51 -0500, micky
wrote:

What is the donut/conical thing that serves the purpose of a flapper
called?

It's called a Ballcock. (dont ya just love that name).....
I always wondered what kind of preverted plumber came up with that name.

Anyhow, these links will tell you the name of each individual part.
Email them to your friend.

http://tinyurl.com/a2sderv
http://tinyurl.com/a3b3bvo

Older toilets had a ball valve instead of a flapper, it did the same
thing, but had a brass shaft on top that the chain connected to.

If you want to replace the flush valve, YES, you do need to remove the
tank.

Yeah, the flush valve. I didn't know that name. And I've looked
all over the web and can't find one like this has. So I'll have to
replace the whole thing. Thanks a lot.

Darn. I don't need another project at someone else's house, but I
don't think this guy or his parents can do it.

(It also has a filler valve with a brass ball float, but that is all
working.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 01:47:38 -0600, DanG wrote:

On 12/12/2012 11:50 PM, micky wrote:
What is the donut/conical thing that serves the purpose of a flapper
called?

I'm trying to tell a young friend how to fix his toilet, which won't
stop running.

Although the toilet looks new, the guts are old I guess and built
differently from any toilet I've seen, and I don't even know the names
of the parts to find replacement parts.

It doesn't have a flapper. Instead the big vertical tube that has the
thinner flexiblef filler tube going to it (what's the big tube
called?) has surrounding it a doughut shaped version of the flapper,
mounted at the bottom end of another vertical tube (that also
surrounds the first one). This outer vertical tube is lifted at its
top by the arm that is connected to the toilet handle. No chain is
used.

What is the name of the doughnut/conical shaped thing that serves the
purpose of the flapper? Or the doughnut/outer-tube combination?

Do they still sell replacement parts for something like this?

If not, and I need to replace the filler tube, the vertical plastic
tube that most toilets have, do I really have to remove the tank from
the toilet?

Thanks

I was not following your description very well.

That's either becaue I don't write well or because we've never seen
one like this before.

The flapper thing is called a flush valve. There are some very old
ones, but there are 2 major styles in current use which are both readily
available at Lowes/ HD/ etc:

Korky type: http://www.plumbingsupply.com/flappers.html#korky

This is what I have, though now it's by fluidmaster and before it was
by Melnar (sp?) and when I bought my house which is 33 y.o. it had a
metal ballcock with a metal float ball.

Mansfield type: http://www.plumbingsupply.com/mansfield.html

Models 210 or 211 might work like the one he has --- I can't tell for
sure -- , but they don't look that much alike and certainly they're
not enough alike to take a part from a new one to fix an old one, so
if I have to take off the tank anyhow, I think I'll go with the korky
style which is easily avaialbe around here.

The thing that starts and stops the water is called a fill valve or ball
cock:
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/toilet-fill-valves.html

Thanks a lot. Wehn I wrork at my house I have all kinds of spare
parts and it's closer to the hardware store also. When I'm somewhere
else, I don't know what they have and it's a pain to bring everything
I might ever need. Plus the last time I fixed something for them,
htey seem to have never used it but they didn't tell me what or why.
That took a lot of time so I'm going to have to ask them about that.

Thanks and thanks all.

On Dec 12, 11:30*pm, micky wrote:
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 22:19:44 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:









On Dec 12, 9:50 pm, micky wrote:
What is the donut/conical thing that serves the purpose of a flapper
called?

I'm trying to tell a young friend how to fix his toilet, which won't
stop running.

Although the toilet looks new, the guts are old I guess and built
differently from any toilet I've seen, and I don't even know the names
of the parts to find replacement parts.

It doesn't have a flapper. Instead the big vertical tube that has the
thinner flexiblef filler tube going to it (what's the big tube
called?) has surrounding it a doughut shaped version of the flapper,
mounted at the bottom end of another vertical tube (that also
surrounds the first one). This outer vertical tube is lifted at its
top by the arm that is connected to the toilet handle. No chain is
used.

What is the name of the doughnut/conical shaped thing that serves the
purpose of the flapper? Or the doughnut/outer-tube combination?

Do they still sell replacement parts for something like this?

If not, and I need to replace the filler tube, the vertical plastic
tube that most toilets have, do I really have to remove the tank from
the toilet?

Thanks

Here's a completed auction for one...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Vintage-...-Ball-Rubber-F...

fyi
On 12/8/1930, a U.S. federal trademark registration was filed for
PIGNOSE. This trademark is owned by KIRKHILL, INC.,
DOWNEY, CA , 90241. The USPTO has given the PIGNOSE trademark serial
number of 71308735.

Thanks a lot, esp. for the patent number, but that's not it.

I've given up looking online for the one it has, and I'm goiug to have
to replace the whole flush valve and put in one with a flapper.

But I'm going to describe it again, and try to do a better job, so
you'll see how wierd the one it has now is.

This one (call it a stopper) *is at the end of, a plastic tube a
little more than an inch in diameter, and it has a hole in it (a
little bigger than the tube) *that surrounds the tube, and both the
tube and the stopper (the equivalent of a pignose or a flapper, except
it has a hole in the middle) * surround another tube about an inch in
diameter, which is centered above the hole that goes to the toilet
bowl.

The house is about 50 years old and I assume this is the original
mechanism. despite how new thte toilet looks. .

How about a photo?

I've taken apart toilets, and rebuilt them. For me,
it wasn't too bad a job. Got the kit at Lowes or
HD, and the job went OK. I'd replace the fill
valve, and flexible water supply hose while
you're working.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"micky" wrote in message
...


Yeah, the flush valve. I didn't know that name. And I've looked
all over the web and can't find one like this has. So I'll have to
replace the whole thing. Thanks a lot.

Darn. I don't need another project at someone else's house, but I
don't think this guy or his parents can do it.

(It also has a filler valve with a brass ball float, but that is all
working.

"micky" wrote

Yeah, the flush valve. I didn't know that name. And I've looked
all over the web and can't find one like this has. So I'll have to
replace the whole thing. Thanks a lot.

Darn. I don't need another project at someone else's house, but I
don't think this guy or his parents can do it.

(It also has a filler valve with a brass ball float, but that is all
working.

Micky, Micky, Micky. Either quit whining, or turn in your tools. I can do
this job in 30-60 minutes, depending on how bad the stuff is galled on
there.

1. Turn off the water and disconnect toilet from water supply at base of
water tank.
2. Put towels around toilet, which should have been step One.
3. Flush toilet, and sop all water out of it, which was Really step one.
(You will rearrange these steps as you gain experience.)
4. Now that you have a dry toilet, straddle it facing it, and take the two
bolts out of the tank that hold it to the base. Located at the bottom of
the water tank. May take a back up wrench, or assistant, or locking pliers
on nut under tank.
5. Now that you have the tank off and laying on some sawhorses that you put
up in step four, take everything off except the handle.
6. Replace with the new.
7. Watch the big donut that goes between the tank, both in taking it off
and putting on new. It may be stuck on there, Clean it all off. Two
separate apparati, the hole that goes through the porcelain, with gasket,
held on by big nut, and separate nuther additional rubber that the tank then
sits on while resting on the base, no nut.
8. Clean around where you will put new stuff.
9. Put new stuff in tank. Hand torque only, except for mondo nut on big
donut, which you may need a mondo set of Channel Locks. Still, only snug,
not tight. Be sure to get all washers in, or big leaks.
10. Get the right bolts, nuts, and washers ready so that you have a water
tight seal on the tank to base. Some take conicals, some brass with rubber
vulcanized to brass, some plain brass with separate rubber. Find a combo to
insure water will not leak.
11. Put tank on base, and fasten with bolts and nuts. Hand torque, being
careful not to blow the whole thing now by breaking porcelain. Be sure not
to forget the donut AND GET IT LEVEL BOTH WAYS.
12. Connect water supply, and turn on, checking for leaks.
13. Set water level with float in tank.

Now, wasn't that easy? After you've done about six of them, your time will
lessen, unless you hit a major snag, such as problem getting bolts off,
sealing on bolts, sliding of donut, or breaking porcelain. Or water supply.
Sometimes, the only thing holding them together is corrosion. Take the big
water supply nut off at the toilet inlet, not off at the wall. There are
all different variations of nuts, washers, inlet nuts, inlet cone washers,
inlet O ring washers, etc, but not to worry, they give you a big bag of
extra parts that SHOULD cover your install.

Micky, this ain't no big deal, but there are a lot of parts. Just watch as
it comes apart, and lay parts on a board where you can keep track. Do it
slow. It surely ain't rocket science, but there are a few things that can
mess it up, and with each one, you will learn.

And, oh yeah, charge for minimum two hours plus parts, and that's for
friends and family. You'll be there a while, and keep everyone the hell
away from the job, or they will surely screw something up or lose something.
It is a large, potentially messy job, but if you dry things out first, your
water line will shut off, and upon fire-up, everything holds, it can be a
breeze. I've had them go all different ways. That's what tests your
problem solving abilities.

And come back in a week and check the nut on the water supply line at the
base of the toilet. Those will compress with repeated water pressure
cycles. Hand tight unless you truly understand what snug is with channel
locks.

I can do these in under an hour if nothing goes wrong. And mainly what goes
wrong is old stuff frozen on there. Two hours takes into account chasing
parts. Or the shut off valve needs replacing, and that is anywhere from
screw it on and off to sweating job.

Get the one with the whole kit, and you will build up your spare parts pile.
When on the next one, you'll have more parts to cover any special
circumstances. The whole kit, with the inlet float assembly, and flapper
upright is about $25 now. Check ahead of time, and see if it is time to
replace handle, while you're going to the store.

Have fun. Once you know how to do these, they ain't bad, it ain't hard
work, and it pays decent.

Steve

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:23:09 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:

Now, wasn't that easy? After you've done about six of them, your time will
lessen, unless you hit a major snag, such as problem getting bolts off,
sealing on bolts, sliding of donut, or breaking porcelain. Or water supply.

If the bolts dont come off, use a hacksaw and cut them. There is a
rubber gasket under them, so there is riim to get a hacksaw blade in
there. An angle grinder might also work, but the heat will likely make
the rubber stink. Just dont hammer on them.

When you reinstall the bolts, always put some silicone on both sides of
those rubber gaskets inside the tank. This is not noted in the
instructions, this is something I learned after having them leak far too
many times by just using the gaskets. DO NOT overtighten the bolts, or
the tank could crack and/or gasket will creep out from under the bolt
head. Always be sure to remove all the dirt an crud around the bolts
and flush valve threaded portion. A little silicone under the flush
valve gasket cant hurt either.

I've done lots of these over the years, when I was working for a
plumber. These are tricks not normally known.

Good luck.

BTW: Maybe you dont have to replace the entire flush valve. Why not
post a photo of what is in that tank first. There were some
brand-specific flappers and flush ball setups that were not common, but
those parts can be gotten from a plumbing supply, but not always from a
hardware store. Maybe you just need one of those parts and can save
lots of work.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:50:51 -0500, micky
wrote:

What is the donut/conical thing that serves the purpose of a flapper
called?


Now that the word "Donut" has been used in this message, the Police will
be on alt.home.repair all the time from now on!!!!
I hope you're happy with yourself!

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:42:20 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 00:50:51 -0500, micky
wrote:

What is the donut/conical thing that serves the purpose of a flapper
called?


Now that the word "Donut" has been used in this message, the Police will
be on alt.home.repair all the time from now on!!!!
I hope you're happy with yourself!

Not to mention the proctologists.

At least this way if you want to reach t he poice, you know how.

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:47:07 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:23:09 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:

Now, wasn't that easy? After you've done about six of them, your time will
lessen, unless you hit a major snag, such as problem getting bolts off,
sealing on bolts, sliding of donut, or breaking porcelain. Or water supply.

If the bolts dont come off, use a hacksaw and cut them. There is a

So now I have to bring a hacksaw too! Whine.

rubber gasket under them, so there is riim to get a hacksaw blade in
there. An angle grinder might also work, but the heat will likely make

And maybe an angle grinder!

the rubber stink. Just dont hammer on them.

When you reinstall the bolts, always put some silicone on both sides of

And silicone. Whine.

I have all these things, but I don't know if he does. Maybe I should
just work on my own toilet.

those rubber gaskets inside the tank. This is not noted in the
instructions, this is something I learned after having them leak far too
many times by just using the gaskets. DO NOT overtighten the bolts, or
the tank could crack and/or gasket will creep out from under the bolt
head. Always be sure to remove all the dirt an crud around the bolts
and flush valve threaded portion. A little silicone under the flush
valve gasket cant hurt either.

I've done lots of these over the years, when I was working for a
plumber. These are tricks not normally known.

Good luck.

BTW: Maybe you dont have to replace the entire flush valve. Why not
post a photo of what is in that tank first.

I actually had my cell phone with me, with a camera in it, but it
didn't occur to me to take a picture. I guess he could take one and
send it to me and I could post it.

There were some
brand-specific flappers and flush ball setups that were not common, but
those parts can be gotten from a plumbing supply, but not always from a
hardware store. Maybe you just need one of those parts and can save
lots of work.

Maybe I should get that picture and show it at the plumbing store.
He has a third toilet that I didn't look at, because his wife was
lying down in the bedroom already. But if it is the same as the
broken one, that would be more reason to try to find easy to install
replacement parts. (The third toilet had had the guts replaced with
much more recent stuff. Maybe that implies the plumber then couldn't
find what I'm looking for.)

Thanks for the good advice, and thanks all.

In article ,
micky wrote:

some stuff

I haven't piped in on this one because I don't know much about toilets,
either. But when did you decide that you had to pull the tank? I'd start
with something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Fluidmaster-40...dp/B000BOCAB2/

which you can install in 10 minutes, and see whether it fixes the leak.
No need to figure out what old system or combination of systems is in
there now, these parts all work together.

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 18:43:02 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
micky wrote:

some stuff

I haven't piped in on this one because I don't know much about toilets,
either. But when did you decide that you had to pull the tank?

Becaue it has nothing resembling what's available for sale now, the
opeing from the tank to the bowel, or the vertical plastic pipe that
is next to that (the plastic pipe that has the plastic tube going to
it at the top).

Instead that vertical pipe is within, going through, what is
analogous to the flapper. IOW, the "flapper" has a hole in it. If
I take off the "flapper", that is, the donut shaped stopper with a
large vertical pipe going up from it, that leaves the smaller
vertical plastic pipe centered above the opening into the bowel. And
no flapper will fit there, becaue that pipe.is in the way.

If, with a current toilet, one needs to replace the vertical plastic
pipe with the opening to the bowl next to it (instead of right below
it) one has to take the tank off, since there is a big plastic nut
underneat the tank holding it to the tank.


In high school I was supposed to describe how some mechanical device
worked, and I chose a cylinder lock like goes in a door. When some
classmates read their descriptions they were so clear. One even
explained something I'd always wondered about, and even I thoughtt my
description of the lock was unclear. I guess 50 years later, I'm not
much better, but also, part of the problem, I think, is that you all
have never seen one like this and keep trying to relate to what you
have seen, I think.

I should get him to send me pictures, or go over myself and get some.
..
I'd start
with something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Fluidmaster-40...dp/B000BOCAB2/

which you can install in 10 minutes, and see whether it fixes the leak.
No need to figure out what old system or combination of systems is in
there now, these parts all work together.

Thanks. In this one, the url above, , the flapper is held on by a
ring that goes around that vertical plastic pipe, OR by going over the
two cogs sticking out from each side at the bottom of modern vertical
pipes. It won't attach to this toilet. (unless I change the vertical
pipe). Currently the pipe is not offset from the opening that the
flapper closes. It's right above it.. There is no other place, and
no place to the side, to attach the flapper. The current "flapper"
is doughnut shapped, or conical doughnut shaped, with the vertical
plastic tube going through the middle of it. Attached to the top
side of the doughnut is a second plastic tube slightly larger than the
one I just mentioned. This second tube goes almost to the top of the
tank and when a user lifts the handle, the handle rod lifts a big
plastic washer attached at the top of the second tube, which lifts the
doughtnut and flushes the toilet.

The probelm is that the outer tube doesn't fall down again. It sticks
on something, probably crud in the space between the two tubes. (It
may be 50 years old.) Maybe I can take it apart and clean it!!!
although I didn't see a way to disassemble it. I'm going to see if
I can tie the handle rod to the washer so one can pull the outer tube
loose and down without taking the tank lid off. Maybe they'll have
to hold the handle down until the water has flushed the bowel Then
they can pull the handle up and the rod down unsticking the second
tube and making it go down. It will be termporary until I find the
parts. So maybe I should go over there and do that and take the
pictures at the same time.

Writing my answer has given me a couple ideas.

Thanks again.