(edited for length. Read full article on the web.)
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/b...m-in-flu-shots

Latest on the Flu Shot Scam
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2010

I attended a webinar presented by Dr. Sherry Tenpenny, perhaps the country's
leading expert on the dangers of vaccinations. Dr. Tenpenny sought to give
the latest on the annual campaign that happens every Fall to scare people
into getting flu shots.

My Better Health Update, Flu Shots: Yes or No is recommended reading for
the documentation as to why flu shots are neither safe nor effective
(available at
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/b...hots-yes-or-no) and how to
naturally protect yourself from flu and other winter infections. But here
is some additional information taken from Dr. Tenpenny's webinar:

This isn't "flu season," but rather is "flu shot season" due to the
extensive media propaganda aimed at selling this highly lucrative product.

"Flu season" coincides with the time of the year when people have the lowest
vitamin D levels. Vitamin D deficiency from lack of sun in the winter is
perhaps the primary reason for winter illnesses. At Pacific Health Center
we generally suggest 4000 - 5000 i.u.'s of vitamin D per day.

Flu comes and goes, generally as a relatively minor illness, but the
side-effects of flu shots can last a lifetime.

The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) say that the vaccine viruses need to
be an exact match of the viruses in circulation to be effective. The odds
of this are almost nil, since it takes a nine month process to produce flu
vaccine, basing its contents on the strains active last year in SE Asia.
The CDC also states that, over the past 11 years, 86% of all influenza-like
illnesses were not causes by influenza viruses. Therefore, if flu shots are
beneficial at all, they will only be beneficial 14% of the time.

Flu vaccine may contain the following: formaldehyde, MSG, sucrose,
thimerosol, Triton X-100 detergent, and hydrocortisone.

Formaldehyde is carcinogenic in humans. Flu shots have two and a half times
the formaldehyde as the level listed as "an immediate danger to life and
health" by the National Institute for Occupational Safety & Health.

Adjuvants like toxic aluminum in flu shots accelerate the activation of the
immune system. But once the immune system is "turned on," there's no switch
to turn it off. Long-term side effects are unknown. Can you spell
"autoimmune disease?"

The CDC says it doesn't know how many deaths per year are actually caused by
influenza, but it's not the oft-advertised 36,000. The American Lung
Association says the average is 1200 per year with less than 20 children per
year dying of the flu.

The Cochrane Collaborative Vaccine Project reviewed 51 studies on more than
260,000 children, concluding there was "no evidence" flu shots were more
effective than a placebo.
The Mayo Clinic found a higher risk of hospitalization in children who
received flu shots.
Cocrane also reviewed 25 reports on 60,000 adults, finding that flu shots
only reduced risk by a negligible 6%.

A review of 75 studies over 40 years on senior citizens found that one
cannot conclude flu shots are effective for people over 65. Yet there is no
group more badgered to get flu shots than seniors!
Dr. Tenpenny's conclusion: Just say "no" to flu shots!

But saying "no" to flu shots does not mean doing nothing to prevent flu and
other winter illnesses. Pacific Health Center suggests the following
protocol, which we have used for several years with great success:

Take 5000 i.u.'s of vitamin D daily (we recommend our Vitamin D 5000)
Take our Flu Prevention Homeopathic formula once per week throughout the
winter and early Spring (Flu Nosode 2010-2011)
Take an L-Lysine collagen building formula to prevent invasions by viruses
and other microorganisms (we recommend Collagen Forte)
Take 2000 - 3000 mg/day of a buffered, ascorbate vitamin C with
bioflavonoids (we recommend our Ascorbplex 1000)
These four products are available on a special right now on our website.
Just go to this link:
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/s...pg1-cid34.html
Have a healthy winter, flu and flu-shot free!
- Monte Kline, Clinical Nutritionist

On Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:26:03 AM UTC-7, Stormin Mormon wrote:
(edited for length. Read full article on the web.)

http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/b...m-in-flu-shots



Latest on the Flu Shot Scam

Tuesday, November 2nd, 2010

Please, please...don't get the flu shot. Please, get the flu and DIE. We
should be so lucky as to have this happen...we need to mourn.

On 12/11/2012 7:26 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:


These four products are available on a special right now on our website.
Just go to this link:
http://www.pacifichealthc...
Have a healthy winter, flu and flu-shot free!
- Monte Kline, Clinical Nutritionist

That's the red flag that negates anything they said.

On 12/11/2012 10:26 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
(edited for length. Read full article on the web.)
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/b...m-in-flu-shots

Latest on the Flu Shot Scam Tuesday, November 2nd, 2010


"Flu season" coincides with the time of the year when people have the
lowest vitamin D levels. Vitamin D deficiency from lack of sun in
the winter is perhaps the primary reason for winter illnesses. At
Pacific Health Center we generally suggest 4000 - 5000 i.u.'s of
vitamin D per day.


The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) say that the vaccine viruses
need to be an exact match of the viruses in circulation to be
effective. The odds of this are almost nil, since it takes a nine
month process to produce flu vaccine, basing its contents on the
strains active last year in SE Asia. The CDC also states that, over
the past 11 years, 86% of all influenza-like illnesses were not
causes by influenza viruses. Therefore, if flu shots are beneficial
at all, they will only be beneficial 14% of the time.

The Cochrane Collaborative Vaccine Project reviewed 51 studies on
more than 260,000 children, concluding there was "no evidence" flu
shots were more effective than a placebo. The Mayo Clinic found a
higher risk of hospitalization in children who received flu shots.
Cocrane also reviewed 25 reports on 60,000 adults, finding that flu
shots only reduced risk by a negligible 6%.


But saying "no" to flu shots does not mean doing nothing to prevent
flu and other winter illnesses. Pacific Health Center suggests the
following protocol, which we have used for several years with great
success:

Take 5000 i.u.'s of vitamin D daily (we recommend our Vitamin D
5000) Take our Flu Prevention Homeopathic formula once per week
throughout the winter and early Spring (Flu Nosode 2010-2011) Take an
L-Lysine collagen building formula to prevent invasions by viruses
and other microorganisms (we recommend Collagen Forte) Take 2000 -
3000 mg/day of a buffered, ascorbate vitamin C with bioflavonoids (we
recommend our Ascorbplex 1000) These four products are available on a
special right now on our website. Just go to this link:
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/s...pg1-cid34.html


Have a healthy winter, flu and flu-shot free!
- Monte Kline, Clinical Nutritionist



Your posting (edited for brevity) might have a shred more interest and
credibility if it cited references. Where exactly does the CDC say that
vaccines must be the "exact" match? Which issue of which journal
published the Mayo Clinic data you cite, etc.? Does the Cochrane
Collaborative and/or the Pacific Health Center have a meaningful
bibliography of research articles in recognized reputable medical journals?

With respect to the speculation that vit D deficiency is the cause of
increased susceptibility to influenza, how does that square with the
fact that influenza commonly affects the entire U.S. southern tier of
states from east coast to west coast (where the weather commonly is
compatible with summer/bathing suit style of clothing, even in peak flu
season) as well as the more northern states? After all, it only takes
10-15 minutes of whole body exposure to summer sun to generate and
release into the blood up to 20,000 U of D3 (J. Nutr. February 1, 2005
vol. 135 no. 2 317-322). Do the sources cited seriously believe that
winter residents of Florida, Texas, Arizona, southern California etc.
are not receiving sufficient sunshine to generate more than the 5,000 U
Vit D contained in the pill being peddled?

Many of the statements exemplify flawed logic. For example, even if the
CDC does say somewhere that 86% of "flu-like" illnesses are not caused
by the influenza virus, and that only 14% of patients with such
illnesses might be helped by the influenza vaccination, the posting
ignores the fact that the CDC, on it's own web site, strongly favors flu
vaccination for almost all people over the age of 6 months. Just
because an illness may initially present with "flu-like" symptoms, less
dangerous illnesses have a much lower risk of evolving life-threatening
complications than does influenza. The overwhelming majority of
credible studies done over decades have determined that the risks of
serious complications from a flu vaccination are miniscule compared with
the risk of serious complications from the flu.

I don't want to throw around my c.v. here, but I believe I have
sufficient formal education, clinical, and career experience to say with
some authority that your posting does not provide any information to
justify making any hypothesis, not to speak of statistically significant
data to support a hypothesis. It is a very good example of scientific
illiteracy.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

(edited for length. Read full article on the web.)
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/b...m-in-flu-shots

NB: the web site describes itself as "a Christian owned and operated
natural health care provider that specializes in Limbic Stress Assessment
(LSA) to determine a client’s nutrient deficiencies, food sensitivities and
toxicities"

Latest on the Flu Shot Scam
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2010

I attended a webinar presented by Dr. Sherry Tenpenny, perhaps the
country's
leading expert on the dangers of vaccinations.

This person is qualified as an osteopath (bonesetter) i.e. neither a GP
physician
nor an epidemiologist.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Peter wrote:
On 12/11/2012 10:26 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
(edited for length. Read full article on the web.)
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/b...m-in-flu-shots

Latest on the Flu Shot Scam Tuesday, November 2nd, 2010


"Flu season" coincides with the time of the year when people have the
lowest vitamin D levels. Vitamin D deficiency from lack of sun in
the winter is perhaps the primary reason for winter illnesses. At
Pacific Health Center we generally suggest 4000 - 5000 i.u.'s of
vitamin D per day.


The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) say that the vaccine viruses
need to be an exact match of the viruses in circulation to be
effective. The odds of this are almost nil, since it takes a nine
month process to produce flu vaccine, basing its contents on the
strains active last year in SE Asia. The CDC also states that, over
the past 11 years, 86% of all influenza-like illnesses were not
causes by influenza viruses. Therefore, if flu shots are beneficial
at all, they will only be beneficial 14% of the time.

The Cochrane Collaborative Vaccine Project reviewed 51 studies on
more than 260,000 children, concluding there was "no evidence" flu
shots were more effective than a placebo. The Mayo Clinic found a
higher risk of hospitalization in children who received flu shots.
Cocrane also reviewed 25 reports on 60,000 adults, finding that flu
shots only reduced risk by a negligible 6%.


But saying "no" to flu shots does not mean doing nothing to prevent
flu and other winter illnesses. Pacific Health Center suggests the
following protocol, which we have used for several years with great
success:

Take 5000 i.u.'s of vitamin D daily (we recommend our Vitamin D
5000) Take our Flu Prevention Homeopathic formula once per week
throughout the winter and early Spring (Flu Nosode 2010-2011) Take an
L-Lysine collagen building formula to prevent invasions by viruses
and other microorganisms (we recommend Collagen Forte) Take 2000 -
3000 mg/day of a buffered, ascorbate vitamin C with bioflavonoids (we
recommend our Ascorbplex 1000) These four products are available on a
special right now on our website. Just go to this link:
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/s...pg1-cid34.html


Have a healthy winter, flu and flu-shot free!
- Monte Kline, Clinical Nutritionist



Your posting (edited for brevity) might have a shred more interest and
credibility if it cited references. Where exactly does the CDC say that
vaccines must be the "exact" match? Which issue of which journal
published the Mayo Clinic data you cite, etc.? Does the Cochrane
Collaborative and/or the Pacific Health Center have a meaningful
bibliography of research articles in recognized reputable medical journals?

With respect to the speculation that vit D deficiency is the cause of
increased susceptibility to influenza, how does that square with the fact
that influenza commonly affects the entire U.S. southern tier of states
from east coast to west coast (where the weather commonly is compatible
with summer/bathing suit style of clothing, even in peak flu season) as
well as the more northern states? After all, it only takes 10-15 minutes
of whole body exposure to summer sun to generate and release into the
blood up to 20,000 U of D3 (J. Nutr. February 1, 2005 vol. 135 no. 2
317-322). Do the sources cited seriously believe that winter residents
of Florida, Texas, Arizona, southern California etc. are not receiving
sufficient sunshine to generate more than the 5,000 U Vit D contained in
the pill being peddled?


I was wonder what the percentages were for full, partial sun.


Many of the statements exemplify flawed logic. For example, even if the
CDC does say somewhere that 86% of "flu-like" illnesses are not caused by
the influenza virus, and that only 14% of patients with such illnesses
might be helped by the influenza vaccination, the posting ignores the
fact that the CDC, on it's own web site, strongly favors flu vaccination
for almost all people over the age of 6 months. Just because an illness
may initially present with "flu-like" symptoms, less dangerous illnesses
have a much lower risk of evolving life-threatening complications than
does influenza. The overwhelming majority of credible studies done over
decades have determined that the risks of serious complications from a
flu vaccination are miniscule compared with the risk of serious complications from the flu.


I suppose the common cold, a virus, is mostly responsible.

I don't want to throw around my c.v. here, but I believe I have
sufficient formal education, clinical, and career experience to say with
some authority that your posting does not provide any information to
justify making any hypothesis, not to speak of statistically significant
data to support a hypothesis. It is a very good example of scientific illiteracy.

I've seen the posting before.
I take vitamin c. I take vitamin d.
A few years ago my hip was causing major problems. I attribute taking
vitamin d along with other minerals making it 95% better.

I got my flu shot.

Greg

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 19:10:43 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
wrote:




I attended a webinar presented by Dr. Sherry Tenpenny, perhaps the
country's
leading expert on the dangers of vaccinations.

This person is qualified as an osteopath (bonesetter) i.e. neither a GP
physician
nor an epidemiologist.

The doctor may be a nutcase, but Osteopathic doctors are far more than
bone setters. Could you be thinking of orthopedic?

My wife's cardiologist is a DO. We trust him with her life and he has
done good so far.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
(edited for length. Read full article on the web.)
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/b...m-in-flu-shots


http://scientopia.org/blogs/whitecoa...es-and-idiots/



--
PV

“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and
drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”

- Aristophanes

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
news:ehIxs.176399

Hey Norm, are you one of those religious nuts that lets their kids die
rather let them have a blood transfusion?

On 12/12/2012 1:48 AM, harryagain wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
news:ehIxs.176399

Hey Norm, are you one of those religious nuts that lets their kids die
rather let them have a blood transfusion?



He's one of those gullible types that falls for every type of liar,
con artist, and swindler out there. It's characteristic of those who
prefer to believe in magic over facts.

On 12/11/2012 10:29 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 19:10:43 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
wrote:




I attended a webinar presented by Dr. Sherry Tenpenny, perhaps
the country's leading expert on the dangers of vaccinations.

This person is qualified as an osteopath (bonesetter) i.e. neither
a GP physician nor an epidemiologist.

The doctor may be a nutcase, but Osteopathic doctors are far more
than bone setters. Could you be thinking of orthopedic?

My wife's cardiologist is a DO. We trust him with her life and he
has done good so far.


Let's get the facts straight here. I happen to be a board certified
Orthopedic Surgeon. I have an M.D. and spent 5 1/2 years in post
medical school internship and residency training. I could not even sit
for the American Board of Orthopedic Surgery's certification exam until
I had several years of documented clinical experience, including
documentation of operations performed, etc. My formal education trained
me to be substantially more than just a "bone setter" and in my clinical
practice I diagnosed and treated a wide spectrum of congenital,
infectious, malignant, inflammatory, and degenerative diseases of the
musculoskeletal system in addition to traumatic injuries. My training
taught me to recognize when some of my patient's complained of symptoms
that were caused by non-orthopedic problems and required treatment by
other specialists for effective resolution. I don't know where anyone
gets the idea that orthopedic doctors are merely "bone setters". As for
nutcases, I've known many nut cases and there is no correlation between
academic credentials and wrong-headed thinking.

As far as what you say about osteopaths, I strongly and completely
support your comments with one caveat: prior to about 25-30 years ago,
the formal training of osteopaths was substantially inferior to that of
M.D.s. That has not been the case for many decades. Most osteopaths
don't even specialize in the diseases of the musculo-skeletal system and
the one's I've known are fully equivalent to M.D.s in every respect.

He's spewing BS. Get the shot. Recent research has also shown that
getting the shots reduces heart problems by 50% in older people. Most
heart problems are caused by inflammation of various kinds and the flu
shots, besides preventing the flu, also reduce coronary inflammation
that you wouldn't even notice till the heart problem became acute.


On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:26:03 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

(edited for length. Read full article on the web.)
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/b...m-in-flu-shots

Latest on the Flu Shot Scam
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2010

I attended a webinar presented by Dr. Sherry Tenpenny, perhaps the country's
leading expert on the dangers of vaccinations. Dr. Tenpenny sought to give
the latest on the annual campaign that happens every Fall to scare people
into getting flu shots.

My Better Health Update, Flu Shots: Yes or No is recommended reading for
the documentation as to why flu shots are neither safe nor effective
(available at
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/b...hots-yes-or-no) and how to
naturally protect yourself from flu and other winter infections. But here
is some additional information taken from Dr. Tenpenny's webinar:

This isn't "flu season," but rather is "flu shot season" due to the
extensive media propaganda aimed at selling this highly lucrative product.

"Flu season" coincides with the time of the year when people have the lowest
vitamin D levels. Vitamin D deficiency from lack of sun in the winter is
perhaps the primary reason for winter illnesses. At Pacific Health Center
we generally suggest 4000 - 5000 i.u.'s of vitamin D per day.

Flu comes and goes, generally as a relatively minor illness, but the
side-effects of flu shots can last a lifetime.

The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) say that the vaccine viruses need to
be an exact match of the viruses in circulation to be effective. The odds
of this are almost nil, since it takes a nine month process to produce flu
vaccine, basing its contents on the strains active last year in SE Asia.
The CDC also states that, over the past 11 years, 86% of all influenza-like
illnesses were not causes by influenza viruses. Therefore, if flu shots are
beneficial at all, they will only be beneficial 14% of the time.

Flu vaccine may contain the following: formaldehyde, MSG, sucrose,
thimerosol, Triton X-100 detergent, and hydrocortisone.

Formaldehyde is carcinogenic in humans. Flu shots have two and a half times
the formaldehyde as the level listed as "an immediate danger to life and
health" by the National Institute for Occupational Safety & Health.

Adjuvants like toxic aluminum in flu shots accelerate the activation of the
immune system. But once the immune system is "turned on," there's no switch
to turn it off. Long-term side effects are unknown. Can you spell
"autoimmune disease?"

The CDC says it doesn't know how many deaths per year are actually caused by
influenza, but it's not the oft-advertised 36,000. The American Lung
Association says the average is 1200 per year with less than 20 children per
year dying of the flu.

The Cochrane Collaborative Vaccine Project reviewed 51 studies on more than
260,000 children, concluding there was "no evidence" flu shots were more
effective than a placebo.
The Mayo Clinic found a higher risk of hospitalization in children who
received flu shots.
Cocrane also reviewed 25 reports on 60,000 adults, finding that flu shots
only reduced risk by a negligible 6%.

A review of 75 studies over 40 years on senior citizens found that one
cannot conclude flu shots are effective for people over 65. Yet there is no
group more badgered to get flu shots than seniors!
Dr. Tenpenny's conclusion: Just say "no" to flu shots!

But saying "no" to flu shots does not mean doing nothing to prevent flu and
other winter illnesses. Pacific Health Center suggests the following
protocol, which we have used for several years with great success:

Take 5000 i.u.'s of vitamin D daily (we recommend our Vitamin D 5000)
Take our Flu Prevention Homeopathic formula once per week throughout the
winter and early Spring (Flu Nosode 2010-2011)
Take an L-Lysine collagen building formula to prevent invasions by viruses
and other microorganisms (we recommend Collagen Forte)
Take 2000 - 3000 mg/day of a buffered, ascorbate vitamin C with
bioflavonoids (we recommend our Ascorbplex 1000)
These four products are available on a special right now on our website.
Just go to this link:
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/s...pg1-cid34.html
Have a healthy winter, flu and flu-shot free!
- Monte Kline, Clinical Nutritionist

Roy wrote:
On Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:26:03 AM UTC-7, Stormin Mormon wrote:
(edited for length. Read full article on the web.)

http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/b...m-in-flu-shots



Latest on the Flu Shot Scam

Tuesday, November 2nd, 2010

Please, please...don't get the flu shot. Please, get the flu and DIE. We
should be so lucky as to have this happen...we need to mourn.

After my inlaw working for the company that developed flumist, I bought
stock in the company, and kept dropping, bought more, dropping, then slight
recovery. I don't know what differences are in the chemical makeup of sniff
vs shot, but the mist has live virus and claimed more effectiveness. I have
yet to get the mist, but I think I'm out of the zone. It was several years
ago when they were running out of flu shots, yet they had plenty of mist
available.

Greg

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ...

(edited for length. Read full article on the web.)
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/b...m-in-flu-shots


snip

Wife and I had the Hong Kong flu in 1968. Really rough thing to have.
Thought we were going to die. Have taken the flu shots ever since. She has
NO immune system due to medicine she takes to prevent rejecting heart
transplant. Has not have any problem taking the flu shots. WW

"WW" wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ...

(edited for length. Read full article on the web.)
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/b...m-in-flu-shots


snip

Wife and I had the Hong Kong flu in 1968. Really rough thing to have.
Thought we were going to die. Have taken the flu shots ever since. She
has NO immune system due to medicine she takes to prevent rejecting heart
transplant. Has not have any problem taking the flu shots. WW

I don't think the shot will work with NO immune system..

I was just thinking of the stomach virus I had in the mid 70's, that
screwed me up for a couple years.

Greg

"gregz" wrote in message
...

"WW" wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ...

(edited for length. Read full article on the web.)
http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/b...m-in-flu-shots


snip

Wife and I had the Hong Kong flu in 1968. Really rough thing to have.
Thought we were going to die. Have taken the flu shots ever since. She
has NO immune system due to medicine she takes to prevent rejecting heart
transplant. Has not have any problem taking the flu shots. WW

I don't think the shot will work with NO immune system..

I was just thinking of the stomach virus I had in the mid 70's, that
screwed me up for a couple years.

Greg

Transplant 14 + years ago. WW

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:26:03 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Latest on the Flu Shot Scam
Tuesday, November 2nd, 2010

I attended a webinar presented by Dr. Sherry Tenpenny, perhaps the country's
leading expert on the dangers of vaccinations. Dr. Tenpenny sought to give
the latest on the annual campaign that happens every Fall to scare people
into getting flu shots.

They want to scare people into getting it, because it brings in BIG
MONEY. Hell, every pharmacy in my area is littered with signs saying
"Flu shots available".

I got one of them once, back in the 1970s. I got very sick from it.
I've never gotten one since. I generally get a cold or two each winter,
and sometimes what they call the flu. I'm just getting over a stomach
issue that lasted about 4 days and made me quite ill, but it's going
away, and I'll live. Even if I could get the shot free, I would not
take it again.

Then too, I have often wondered if those shots could contain some sort
of drug that makes a person act in a certain way, for example, vote for
a certain political party, or join some religion, or even buy certain
products. I have never trusted the government and all of this is
possible. For all I know, it could contain a substance that makes
elderly people die sooner so the govt. dont have to pay as much social
security.

All of this reminds me of the antidepressant drugs that doctors seem to
hand out like candy these days, even for other illnesses such as
migraine headaches, arthritis and other ailments. That crap most
definately changes a persons mental state, and easily could be used to
make people act in a specific way. I've been offerred that **** for
both migraines and arthritis, and I flat out refuse to take it. I've
told more than one doctor that I'll rather deal with the headaches or
pain than the side effects of that garbage medication.

On 12/12/2012 7:57 PM, gregz wrote:
Roy wrote:
On Tuesday, December 11, 2012 8:26:03 AM UTC-7, Stormin Mormon wrote:
(edited for length. Read full article on the web.)

http://www.pacifichealthcenter.com/b...m-in-flu-shots



Latest on the Flu Shot Scam

Tuesday, November 2nd, 2010

Please, please...don't get the flu shot. Please, get the flu and DIE. We
should be so lucky as to have this happen...we need to mourn.

After my inlaw working for the company that developed flumist, I bought
stock in the company, and kept dropping, bought more, dropping, then slight
recovery. I don't know what differences are in the chemical makeup of sniff
vs shot, but the mist has live virus and claimed more effectiveness. I have
yet to get the mist, but I think I'm out of the zone. It was several years
ago when they were running out of flu shots, yet they had plenty of mist
available.

Greg


I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since that's where I
believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I know there are different
vectors but a virus can get into you if you touch contaminated surfaces
then your mouth so the immune response is going to start in the mucous
membranes. Why not start there? O_o

TDD

clipped

All of this reminds me of the antidepressant drugs that doctors seem to
hand out like candy these days, even for other illnesses such as
migraine headaches, arthritis and other ailments. That crap most
definately changes a persons mental state, and easily could be used to
make people act in a specific way. I've been offerred that **** for
both migraines and arthritis, and I flat out refuse to take it. I've
told more than one doctor that I'll rather deal with the headaches or
pain than the side effects of that garbage medication.



There is a lot of overprescribing, and folks need to know what their
meds will do in the way of dosing and side effects. Flu is a killer, in
addition to being an economic problem (for those who care) in lost work
days....I've taken care of lots of folks with pneumonia resulting from
flu, generally elderly who get the worst of it. Worst flu epidemic I
can remember was in 1970 when our hospital was full to capacity and had
beds in the hallway and I was pregnant. Came close to miscarrying,
which is another big hazard and not well known.

The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since that's where
I believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I know there are
different vectors but a virus can get into you if you touch
contaminated surfaces then your mouth so the immune response is going
to start in the mucous membranes. Why not start there? O_o

So far I myself have always gone with the shot, but I believe the mist
is supposed to be better. While your idea has appeal - that is the
location where you get the infection, so immunizing there is better - I
don't think that is necessarily the most important reason. Immune cells
have a way to travel to the sites where they are needed anyway, so where
the immunization takes place isn't very important. I think the reason
inhaling the mist is working so well is the abundance of bloodvessels
near the surface of the nasal mucosa (design by Mother nature to get as
fast as possible at the bugs you breathe in). So entry of the vaccine
into the blood stream is easy and effective right there - no pain, all
gain. Addicts don't inject cocaine subcutaneously, they snort it. For
the anal retentive there is another route. In fact, suppositories are a
very effective way to introduce medications.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 12/13/2012 2:43 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since that's where
I believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I know there are
different vectors but a virus can get into you if you touch
contaminated surfaces then your mouth so the immune response is going
to start in the mucous membranes. Why not start there? O_o

So far I myself have always gone with the shot, but I believe the mist
is supposed to be better. While your idea has appeal - that is the
location where you get the infection, so immunizing there is better - I
don't think that is necessarily the most important reason. Immune cells
have a way to travel to the sites where they are needed anyway, so where
the immunization takes place isn't very important. I think the reason
inhaling the mist is working so well is the abundance of bloodvessels
near the surface of the nasal mucosa (design by Mother nature to get as
fast as possible at the bugs you breathe in). So entry of the vaccine
into the blood stream is easy and effective right there - no pain, all
gain. Addicts don't inject cocaine subcutaneously, they snort it. For
the anal retentive there is another route. In fact, suppositories are a
very effective way to introduce medications.


I'm no physician or medical expert, my field of study was physics not
medicine so I defer to the medical experts but I can read and comprehend
things scientific and from what I've read on the respiratory system, it
seems to me that a great deal of the body's immune response mechanism
is concentrated in the mouth and nose where most everything is being
taken into the body. I'm guessing that the mucous membranes of the nose,
mouth and lungs are going to produce things like histamine a lot quicker
than the skin. Is it not true that some things that you may breathe in
or swallow may be harmless but devastating if you got them in a cut or
puncture of your skin? I'm just assuming that the immune system has more
resources concentrated around openings in the body even though our
marvelous immune systems go after invaders no matter where they are. I
have an idea that breathing in a vaccine may be less likely to make me
ill than an injection. Every time I've ever received a flu shot, I have
become very ill. ^_^

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/13/2012 2:43 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since that's where
I believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I know there are
different vectors but a virus can get into you if you touch
contaminated surfaces then your mouth so the immune response is going
to start in the mucous membranes. Why not start there? O_o

So far I myself have always gone with the shot, but I believe the mist
is supposed to be better. While your idea has appeal - that is the
location where you get the infection, so immunizing there is better - I
don't think that is necessarily the most important reason. Immune cells
have a way to travel to the sites where they are needed anyway, so where
the immunization takes place isn't very important. I think the reason
inhaling the mist is working so well is the abundance of bloodvessels
near the surface of the nasal mucosa (design by Mother nature to get as
fast as possible at the bugs you breathe in). So entry of the vaccine
into the blood stream is easy and effective right there - no pain, all
gain. Addicts don't inject cocaine subcutaneously, they snort it. For
the anal retentive there is another route. In fact, suppositories are a
very effective way to introduce medications.


I'm no physician or medical expert, my field of study was physics not
medicine so I defer to the medical experts but I can read and comprehend
things scientific and from what I've read on the respiratory system, it
seems to me that a great deal of the body's immune response mechanism
is concentrated in the mouth and nose where most everything is being
taken into the body. I'm guessing that the mucous membranes of the nose,
mouth and lungs are going to produce things like histamine a lot quicker
than the skin. Is it not true that some things that you may breathe in or
swallow may be harmless but devastating if you got them in a cut or
puncture of your skin? I'm just assuming that the immune system has more
resources concentrated around openings in the body even though our
marvelous immune systems go after invaders no matter where they are. I
have an idea that breathing in a vaccine may be less likely to make me
ill than an injection. Every time I've ever received a flu shot, I have
become very ill. ^_^

TDD

I never became sick in getting shot. It would have to be so many days after
getting it, since it takes however long to start reacting to it. There are
the various chicken precautions. Since the virus can't multiply, it's not
suppose to make you sick.

Been getting shots for years. I still get sick. Can't tell if it's a cold
or flu. Sore throat, sniffles, then lung congestion, fever. Often in
september- October, or early in the year.

Greg

The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/13/2012 2:43 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since that's
where I believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I know there
are different vectors but a virus can get into you if you touch
contaminated surfaces then your mouth so the immune response is
going to start in the mucous membranes. Why not start there? O_o

So far I myself have always gone with the shot, but I believe the
mist is supposed to be better. While your idea has appeal - that is
the location where you get the infection, so immunizing there is
better - I don't think that is necessarily the most important reason.
Immune cells have a way to travel to the sites where they are needed
anyway, so where the immunization takes place isn't very important.
I think the reason inhaling the mist is working so well is the
abundance of bloodvessels near the surface of the nasal mucosa
(design by Mother nature to get as fast as possible at the bugs you
breathe in). So entry of the vaccine into the blood stream is easy
and effective right there - no pain, all gain. Addicts don't inject
cocaine subcutaneously, they snort it. For the anal retentive there
is another route. In fact, suppositories are a very effective way to
introduce medications.


I'm no physician or medical expert, my field of study was physics not
medicine so I defer to the medical experts but I can read and
comprehend things scientific and from what I've read on the
respiratory system, it seems to me that a great deal of the body's
immune response mechanism is concentrated in the mouth and nose where
most everything is being taken into the body. I'm guessing that the
mucous membranes of the nose, mouth and lungs are going to produce
things like histamine a lot quicker than the skin. Is it not true that
some things that you may breathe in or swallow may be harmless but
devastating if you got them in a cut or puncture of your skin? I'm
just assuming that the immune system has more resources concentrated
around openings in the body even though our marvelous immune systems
go after invaders no matter where they are. I have an idea that
breathing in a vaccine may be less likely to make me ill than an
injection. Every time I've ever received a flu shot, I have become
very ill. ^_^

TDD

I was in medical research before I retired 2 years ago, but I am far from
a qualified physician. Nevertheless, getting sick from a flu shot is
something to talk to your doctor about, since it suggests you are
allergic to something in those shots. Better to find out what it really
is that makes you sick, since flu shots aren't supposed to make you sick
at all, at least not the ones in the last 5-10 years.

Indeed, those parts of your body that come into contact with the outside
world are heavily defended by the immune system - your skin, mouth, nose,
gut etc. Therefore they have many blood vessels (transportation
network), and immune cells.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 12/13/2012 7:59 PM, gregz wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/13/2012 2:43 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since that's where
I believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I know there are
different vectors but a virus can get into you if you touch
contaminated surfaces then your mouth so the immune response is going
to start in the mucous membranes. Why not start there? O_o

So far I myself have always gone with the shot, but I believe the mist
is supposed to be better. While your idea has appeal - that is the
location where you get the infection, so immunizing there is better - I
don't think that is necessarily the most important reason. Immune cells
have a way to travel to the sites where they are needed anyway, so where
the immunization takes place isn't very important. I think the reason
inhaling the mist is working so well is the abundance of bloodvessels
near the surface of the nasal mucosa (design by Mother nature to get as
fast as possible at the bugs you breathe in). So entry of the vaccine
into the blood stream is easy and effective right there - no pain, all
gain. Addicts don't inject cocaine subcutaneously, they snort it. For
the anal retentive there is another route. In fact, suppositories are a
very effective way to introduce medications.


I'm no physician or medical expert, my field of study was physics not
medicine so I defer to the medical experts but I can read and comprehend
things scientific and from what I've read on the respiratory system, it
seems to me that a great deal of the body's immune response mechanism
is concentrated in the mouth and nose where most everything is being
taken into the body. I'm guessing that the mucous membranes of the nose,
mouth and lungs are going to produce things like histamine a lot quicker
than the skin. Is it not true that some things that you may breathe in or
swallow may be harmless but devastating if you got them in a cut or
puncture of your skin? I'm just assuming that the immune system has more
resources concentrated around openings in the body even though our
marvelous immune systems go after invaders no matter where they are. I
have an idea that breathing in a vaccine may be less likely to make me
ill than an injection. Every time I've ever received a flu shot, I have
become very ill. ^_^

TDD

I never became sick in getting shot. It would have to be so many days after
getting it, since it takes however long to start reacting to it. There are
the various chicken precautions. Since the virus can't multiply, it's not
suppose to make you sick.

Been getting shots for years. I still get sick. Can't tell if it's a cold
or flu. Sore throat, sniffles, then lung congestion, fever. Often in
september- October, or early in the year.

Greg


I'm weird anyway, doctors tell me one injection won't make me ill and
another will, my reaction is always opposite. Drugs never work on me as
expected. I had a motorcycle accident years ago and while the doctors
and nurses were checking me out I asked for something for the pain, they
all stopped what they were doing, and one of the said "We gave you an
injection of 150mg Demerol 10 minutes ago, you should be feeling no
pain." I had no idea what Demerol was because unlike many of my
contemporaries way back then, I've never touched any drugs, alcohol or
smoked anything legal or not. At the dentist I have to get two or more
shots and the stuff wears off quickly, same with any pain killer the
doctors or nurses injected in me in a hospital. The oral dose of pain
medication needed to mitigate my pain would put a normal person in a
coma and I constantly have to tell medical personnel that I've never
taken any illegal drugs or prescription drugs not prescribed for me. I
have Tramadol prescribed for me now and physicians tell me that
300-400mg is what they called the seizure threshold for the drug.
600-800mg might mitigate my pain somewhat and perhaps make me a tiny bit
drowsy. I despise taking drugs and don't like anything that affects
my balance, perception of my surroundings or ability to function. O_o

TDD

On 12/13/2012 8:02 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/13/2012 2:43 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since that's
where I believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I know there
are different vectors but a virus can get into you if you touch
contaminated surfaces then your mouth so the immune response is
going to start in the mucous membranes. Why not start there? O_o

So far I myself have always gone with the shot, but I believe the
mist is supposed to be better. While your idea has appeal - that is
the location where you get the infection, so immunizing there is
better - I don't think that is necessarily the most important reason.
Immune cells have a way to travel to the sites where they are needed
anyway, so where the immunization takes place isn't very important.
I think the reason inhaling the mist is working so well is the
abundance of bloodvessels near the surface of the nasal mucosa
(design by Mother nature to get as fast as possible at the bugs you
breathe in). So entry of the vaccine into the blood stream is easy
and effective right there - no pain, all gain. Addicts don't inject
cocaine subcutaneously, they snort it. For the anal retentive there
is another route. In fact, suppositories are a very effective way to
introduce medications.


I'm no physician or medical expert, my field of study was physics not
medicine so I defer to the medical experts but I can read and
comprehend things scientific and from what I've read on the
respiratory system, it seems to me that a great deal of the body's
immune response mechanism is concentrated in the mouth and nose where
most everything is being taken into the body. I'm guessing that the
mucous membranes of the nose, mouth and lungs are going to produce
things like histamine a lot quicker than the skin. Is it not true that
some things that you may breathe in or swallow may be harmless but
devastating if you got them in a cut or puncture of your skin? I'm
just assuming that the immune system has more resources concentrated
around openings in the body even though our marvelous immune systems
go after invaders no matter where they are. I have an idea that
breathing in a vaccine may be less likely to make me ill than an
injection. Every time I've ever received a flu shot, I have become
very ill. ^_^

TDD

I was in medical research before I retired 2 years ago, but I am far from
a qualified physician. Nevertheless, getting sick from a flu shot is
something to talk to your doctor about, since it suggests you are
allergic to something in those shots. Better to find out what it really
is that makes you sick, since flu shots aren't supposed to make you sick
at all, at least not the ones in the last 5-10 years.

Indeed, those parts of your body that come into contact with the outside
world are heavily defended by the immune system - your skin, mouth, nose,
gut etc. Therefore they have many blood vessels (transportation
network), and immune cells.


Yea, the trick question, "What's the largest organ of the human body?"
"The Skin." ^_^

TDD

clipped

I'm weird anyway, doctors tell me one injection won't make me ill and
another will, my reaction is always opposite. Drugs never work on me as
expected. I had a motorcycle accident years ago and while the doctors
and nurses were checking me out I asked for something for the pain, they
all stopped what they were doing, and one of the said "We gave you an
injection of 150mg Demerol 10 minutes ago, you should be feeling no
pain." I had no idea what Demerol was because unlike many of my
contemporaries way back then, I've never touched any drugs, alcohol or
smoked anything legal or not. At the dentist I have to get two or more
shots and the stuff wears off quickly, same with any pain killer the
doctors or nurses injected in me in a hospital. The oral dose of pain
medication needed to mitigate my pain would put a normal person in a
coma and I constantly have to tell medical personnel that I've never
taken any illegal drugs or prescription drugs not prescribed for me. I
have Tramadol prescribed for me now and physicians tell me that
300-400mg is what they called the seizure threshold for the drug.
600-800mg might mitigate my pain somewhat and perhaps make me a tiny bit
drowsy. I despise taking drugs and don't like anything that affects
my balance, perception of my surroundings or ability to function. O_o

TDD

I am the opposite...sedative/narcs put me into a coma ) When I last
had dental work done, I wanted to be unconcious. I knew the drugs they
use and that occasionally people do not wake up. I had dental work
twice, and after the first I asked for a copy of the anes. record to see
what they had given me and how I responded. The second session was
shortly after Michael Jackson died, and I received less than half of ONE
of the drugs he had taken in his drug cocktail. I did take comfort in
the fact that the oral surgery center is next door to the fire
station...good place to be if one needs CPR )

The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/13/2012 8:02 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/13/2012 2:43 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since that's
where I believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I know there
are different vectors but a virus can get into you if you touch
contaminated surfaces then your mouth so the immune response is
going to start in the mucous membranes. Why not start there? O_o

So far I myself have always gone with the shot, but I believe the
mist is supposed to be better. While your idea has appeal - that
is the location where you get the infection, so immunizing there is
better - I don't think that is necessarily the most important
reason.
Immune cells have a way to travel to the sites where they are
needed
anyway, so where the immunization takes place isn't very important.
I think the reason inhaling the mist is working so well is the
abundance of bloodvessels near the surface of the nasal mucosa
(design by Mother nature to get as fast as possible at the bugs you
breathe in). So entry of the vaccine into the blood stream is easy
and effective right there - no pain, all gain. Addicts don't
inject cocaine subcutaneously, they snort it. For the anal
retentive there is another route. In fact, suppositories are a
very effective way to introduce medications.


I'm no physician or medical expert, my field of study was physics
not medicine so I defer to the medical experts but I can read and
comprehend things scientific and from what I've read on the
respiratory system, it seems to me that a great deal of the body's
immune response mechanism is concentrated in the mouth and nose
where most everything is being taken into the body. I'm guessing
that the mucous membranes of the nose, mouth and lungs are going to
produce things like histamine a lot quicker than the skin. Is it not
true that some things that you may breathe in or swallow may be
harmless but devastating if you got them in a cut or puncture of
your skin? I'm just assuming that the immune system has more
resources concentrated around openings in the body even though our
marvelous immune systems go after invaders no matter where they are.
I have an idea that breathing in a vaccine may be less likely to
make me ill than an injection. Every time I've ever received a flu
shot, I have become very ill. ^_^

TDD

I was in medical research before I retired 2 years ago, but I am far
from a qualified physician. Nevertheless, getting sick from a flu
shot is something to talk to your doctor about, since it suggests you
are allergic to something in those shots. Better to find out what it
really is that makes you sick, since flu shots aren't supposed to
make you sick at all, at least not the ones in the last 5-10 years.

Indeed, those parts of your body that come into contact with the
outside world are heavily defended by the immune system - your skin,
mouth, nose, gut etc. Therefore they have many blood vessels
(transportation network), and immune cells.


Yea, the trick question, "What's the largest organ of the human body?"
"The Skin." ^_^

That's often debated. My answer (actually one of the coauthors on our
paper) is the cells lining the blood vessels, endothelial cells. In
capillary blood vessels, that's the only cell surrounding them, and there
are a lot of capillaries, especially in skin and mucosa.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 12/13/2012 3:43 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since that's
where I believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I know there
are different vectors but a virus can get into you if you touch
contaminated surfaces then your mouth so the immune response is
going to start in the mucous membranes. Why not start there? O_o

So far I myself have always gone with the shot, but I believe the
mist is supposed to be better. While your idea has appeal - that is
the location where you get the infection, so immunizing there is
better - I don't think that is necessarily the most important reason.
Immune cells have a way to travel to the sites where they are needed
anyway, so where the immunization takes place isn't very important.
I think the reason inhaling the mist is working so well is the
abundance of bloodvessels near the surface of the nasal mucosa
(design by Mother nature to get as fast as possible at the bugs you
breathe in). So entry of the vaccine into the blood stream is easy
and effective right there - no pain, all gain. Addicts don't inject
cocaine subcutaneously, they snort it. For the anal retentive there
is another route. In fact, suppositories are a very effective way to
introduce medications.


Flu mist, as an alternative to the shot, was developed for multiple
reasons. One of which was to provide the protective benefit of
vaccination in an easy to administer form, without needing to use a
needle - which due to fear or pain causes lots of folks to forgo flu
shots entirely. The effective agent in vaccinations is a protein, which
will be digested and rendered useless if swallowed. So you are left
with eye drops, nasal drops/spray, trans-dermal patches or rectal as
potential administration routes. The combined cheapest, most effective,
least problematic and most publicly accepted choice among those is the
nasal. However, to be effective, researchers found that the nasal mist
must use live, attenuated virus as opposed to killed virus in the shots.
Again, for multiple reasons, flu mist has been shown to be safe and
effective for a narrower spectrum of patients than the flu shot. Which
is "better" for a particular person? Your physician, who should be
familiar with your entire medical history, is in the best position to
answer that question for a specific patient. See:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/nasalspray.htm for some additional
information.

On 12/14/2012 5:59 AM, Norminn wrote:
clipped

I'm weird anyway, doctors tell me one injection won't make me ill and
another will, my reaction is always opposite. Drugs never work on me as
expected. I had a motorcycle accident years ago and while the doctors
and nurses were checking me out I asked for something for the pain, they
all stopped what they were doing, and one of the said "We gave you an
injection of 150mg Demerol 10 minutes ago, you should be feeling no
pain." I had no idea what Demerol was because unlike many of my
contemporaries way back then, I've never touched any drugs, alcohol or
smoked anything legal or not. At the dentist I have to get two or more
shots and the stuff wears off quickly, same with any pain killer the
doctors or nurses injected in me in a hospital. The oral dose of pain
medication needed to mitigate my pain would put a normal person in a
coma and I constantly have to tell medical personnel that I've never
taken any illegal drugs or prescription drugs not prescribed for me. I
have Tramadol prescribed for me now and physicians tell me that
300-400mg is what they called the seizure threshold for the drug.
600-800mg might mitigate my pain somewhat and perhaps make me a tiny bit
drowsy. I despise taking drugs and don't like anything that affects
my balance, perception of my surroundings or ability to function. O_o

TDD

I am the opposite...sedative/narcs put me into a coma ) When I last
had dental work done, I wanted to be unconcious. I knew the drugs they
use and that occasionally people do not wake up. I had dental work
twice, and after the first I asked for a copy of the anes. record to see
what they had given me and how I responded. The second session was
shortly after Michael Jackson died, and I received less than half of ONE
of the drugs he had taken in his drug cocktail. I did take comfort in
the fact that the oral surgery center is next door to the fire
station...good place to be if one needs CPR )

Physicians tend to take a cookie cutter approach with drug dosages when
in reality everyone reacts differently with some of us being well
outside the norm on either end of the spectrum. Some of us like me will
have an opposite reaction to a drug. I've had stimulants make me drowsy
and depressants keep me wide awake. Perhaps I'm an outer space alien.
Everyone I work with is disabled in some way and living with chronic
pain, none of us gets any help from the government so we work for what
we get. My roommate has a congenital problem that looks like severe gout
and lives on Lortabs and alcohol. The DEA contacted his doctor and
told him his patient was getting too much of the drug based on pharmacy
records. His physician went to bat for him and told the DEA to quit
practicing medicine because they had no idea of the pain my roommate
suffered. My doctor friend who helps me is terrified that the DEA will
come in and shut him down and imprison him if he prescribes an amount
of pain medication based on patient need rather than what some guideline
calls for. One of the guys I work with owns a service business and lost
a kidney to cancer, he recently had other surgery and the chronic pain
was driving him into depression. I had a long talk with him about it on
how I've dealt with the same problem and how to beat it. A week later he
told me it was working. I've lost too many friends to pain and don't
want to lose any more. O_o

http://www.deasucks.com/

TDD

On 12/14/2012 7:16 AM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/13/2012 8:02 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/13/2012 2:43 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since that's
where I believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I know there
are different vectors but a virus can get into you if you touch
contaminated surfaces then your mouth so the immune response is
going to start in the mucous membranes. Why not start there? O_o

So far I myself have always gone with the shot, but I believe the
mist is supposed to be better. While your idea has appeal - that
is the location where you get the infection, so immunizing there is
better - I don't think that is necessarily the most important
reason.
Immune cells have a way to travel to the sites where they are
needed
anyway, so where the immunization takes place isn't very important.
I think the reason inhaling the mist is working so well is the
abundance of bloodvessels near the surface of the nasal mucosa
(design by Mother nature to get as fast as possible at the bugs you
breathe in). So entry of the vaccine into the blood stream is easy
and effective right there - no pain, all gain. Addicts don't
inject cocaine subcutaneously, they snort it. For the anal
retentive there is another route. In fact, suppositories are a
very effective way to introduce medications.


I'm no physician or medical expert, my field of study was physics
not medicine so I defer to the medical experts but I can read and
comprehend things scientific and from what I've read on the
respiratory system, it seems to me that a great deal of the body's
immune response mechanism is concentrated in the mouth and nose
where most everything is being taken into the body. I'm guessing
that the mucous membranes of the nose, mouth and lungs are going to
produce things like histamine a lot quicker than the skin. Is it not
true that some things that you may breathe in or swallow may be
harmless but devastating if you got them in a cut or puncture of
your skin? I'm just assuming that the immune system has more
resources concentrated around openings in the body even though our
marvelous immune systems go after invaders no matter where they are.
I have an idea that breathing in a vaccine may be less likely to
make me ill than an injection. Every time I've ever received a flu
shot, I have become very ill. ^_^

TDD

I was in medical research before I retired 2 years ago, but I am far
from a qualified physician. Nevertheless, getting sick from a flu
shot is something to talk to your doctor about, since it suggests you
are allergic to something in those shots. Better to find out what it
really is that makes you sick, since flu shots aren't supposed to
make you sick at all, at least not the ones in the last 5-10 years.

Indeed, those parts of your body that come into contact with the
outside world are heavily defended by the immune system - your skin,
mouth, nose, gut etc. Therefore they have many blood vessels
(transportation network), and immune cells.


Yea, the trick question, "What's the largest organ of the human body?"
"The Skin." ^_^

That's often debated. My answer (actually one of the coauthors on our
paper) is the cells lining the blood vessels, endothelial cells. In
capillary blood vessels, that's the only cell surrounding them, and there
are a lot of capillaries, especially in skin and mucosa.


I'd have to defer to your expertise but as you point out the multilayer
skin contains a lot of those blood vessels? I suppose an argument could
be made that the interior walls of the blood vessels have more surface
area that the skin. I have no idea how to calculate it but I'm sure some
genius could do it. ^_^

TDD

On 12/14/2012 9:23 AM, Peter wrote:
On 12/13/2012 3:43 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since that's
where I believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I know there
are different vectors but a virus can get into you if you touch
contaminated surfaces then your mouth so the immune response is
going to start in the mucous membranes. Why not start there? O_o

So far I myself have always gone with the shot, but I believe the
mist is supposed to be better. While your idea has appeal - that is
the location where you get the infection, so immunizing there is
better - I don't think that is necessarily the most important reason.
Immune cells have a way to travel to the sites where they are needed
anyway, so where the immunization takes place isn't very important.
I think the reason inhaling the mist is working so well is the
abundance of bloodvessels near the surface of the nasal mucosa
(design by Mother nature to get as fast as possible at the bugs you
breathe in). So entry of the vaccine into the blood stream is easy
and effective right there - no pain, all gain. Addicts don't inject
cocaine subcutaneously, they snort it. For the anal retentive there
is another route. In fact, suppositories are a very effective way to
introduce medications.


Flu mist, as an alternative to the shot, was developed for multiple
reasons. One of which was to provide the protective benefit of
vaccination in an easy to administer form, without needing to use a
needle - which due to fear or pain causes lots of folks to forgo flu
shots entirely. The effective agent in vaccinations is a protein, which
will be digested and rendered useless if swallowed. So you are left
with eye drops, nasal drops/spray, trans-dermal patches or rectal as
potential administration routes. The combined cheapest, most effective,
least problematic and most publicly accepted choice among those is the
nasal. However, to be effective, researchers found that the nasal mist
must use live, attenuated virus as opposed to killed virus in the shots.
Again, for multiple reasons, flu mist has been shown to be safe and
effective for a narrower spectrum of patients than the flu shot. Which
is "better" for a particular person? Your physician, who should be
familiar with your entire medical history, is in the best position to
answer that question for a specific patient. See:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/nasalspray.htm for some additional
information.

Perhaps someone with respiratory problems would want to avoid the mist
vaccine? O_o

TDD

clipped
was driving him into depression. I had a long talk with him about it on
how I've dealt with the same problem and how to beat it. A week later he
told me it was working. I've lost too many friends to pain and don't
want to lose any more. O_o

http://www.deasucks.com/

TDD

Alcohol is a no-no for gout ) My sympathy to anyone with the dang
disease...I had a friend (great mechanic) who got horrible gout attacks
but usually toughed it out. He stayed off booze during the day, but had
it ready as soon as he closed the shop doors....I always tried to get in
in the AM, before DT's started up ) A really good person, too.

On 12/14/2012 1:23 PM, Norminn wrote:
clipped
was driving him into depression. I had a long talk with him about it on
how I've dealt with the same problem and how to beat it. A week later he
told me it was working. I've lost too many friends to pain and don't
want to lose any more. O_o

http://www.deasucks.com/

TDD

Alcohol is a no-no for gout ) My sympathy to anyone with the dang
disease...I had a friend (great mechanic) who got horrible gout attacks
but usually toughed it out. He stayed off booze during the day, but had
it ready as soon as he closed the shop doors....I always tried to get in
in the AM, before DT's started up ) A really good person, too.

There are folks resorting to suicide when their pain meds are cut off by
those DEA creeps practicing medicine without a license. I can't
understand why terminally ill patients are being deprived of pain meds
when some government bureaucrat decides they might get addicted to the
drugs, it's insane to make people suffer. I live in constant pain but
I'm not going to kill myself or anyone else over it, I just cope. I do
really feel sorry for people suffering REAL pain, it hurts to look at
them because I understand what they're going through. Whenever I start
to feel sorry for myself, I just remember there are folks a lot worse
off than I am and they're coping. If they can do it so can I. O_o

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/14/2012 7:16 AM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/13/2012 8:02 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/13/2012 2:43 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since that's
where I believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I know
there are different vectors but a virus can get into you if you
touch contaminated surfaces then your mouth so the immune
response is going to start in the mucous membranes. Why not
start there? O_o

So far I myself have always gone with the shot, but I believe the
mist is supposed to be better. While your idea has appeal - that
is the location where you get the infection, so immunizing there
is better - I don't think that is necessarily the most important
reason.
Immune cells have a way to travel to the sites where they are
needed
anyway, so where the immunization takes place isn't very
important. I think the reason inhaling the mist is working so
well is the abundance of bloodvessels near the surface of the
nasal mucosa (design by Mother nature to get as fast as possible
at the bugs you breathe in). So entry of the vaccine into the
blood stream is easy and effective right there - no pain, all
gain. Addicts don't inject cocaine subcutaneously, they snort
it. For the anal retentive there is another route. In fact,
suppositories are a very effective way to introduce medications.


I'm no physician or medical expert, my field of study was physics
not medicine so I defer to the medical experts but I can read and
comprehend things scientific and from what I've read on the
respiratory system, it seems to me that a great deal of the body's
immune response mechanism is concentrated in the mouth and nose
where most everything is being taken into the body. I'm guessing
that the mucous membranes of the nose, mouth and lungs are going
to produce things like histamine a lot quicker than the skin. Is
it not true that some things that you may breathe in or swallow
may be harmless but devastating if you got them in a cut or
puncture of your skin? I'm just assuming that the immune system
has more resources concentrated around openings in the body even
though our marvelous immune systems go after invaders no matter
where they are. I have an idea that breathing in a vaccine may be
less likely to make me ill than an injection. Every time I've ever
received a flu shot, I have become very ill. ^_^

TDD

I was in medical research before I retired 2 years ago, but I am
far from a qualified physician. Nevertheless, getting sick from a
flu shot is something to talk to your doctor about, since it
suggests you are allergic to something in those shots. Better to
find out what it really is that makes you sick, since flu shots
aren't supposed to make you sick at all, at least not the ones in
the last 5-10 years.

Indeed, those parts of your body that come into contact with the
outside world are heavily defended by the immune system - your
skin, mouth, nose, gut etc. Therefore they have many blood vessels
(transportation network), and immune cells.


Yea, the trick question, "What's the largest organ of the human
body?" "The Skin." ^_^

That's often debated. My answer (actually one of the coauthors on
our paper) is the cells lining the blood vessels, endothelial cells.
In capillary blood vessels, that's the only cell surrounding them,
and there are a lot of capillaries, especially in skin and mucosa.


I'd have to defer to your expertise but as you point out the
multilayer skin contains a lot of those blood vessels? I suppose an
argument could be made that the interior walls of the blood vessels
have more surface area that the skin. I have no idea how to calculate
it but I'm sure some genius could do it. ^_^

TDD

My colleague Eric Jaffe calculated it. This was in 1980. A relevant few
sentences:
The surface area of an endothelial cell is ~30 x 50 micrometer (1,500
micrometer^2) (10) and the area of the capillary vasculature in a 70-kg
man is ~1,000 m2 (20). Thus the capillary vasculature of the average
subject is lined by ~7 x 10^11 endothelial cells.

This was in the J. Clin. Invest. vol 66 p979-986. This discussion is on
p985. The article is freely available at
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC371534/

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/14/2012 1:23 PM, Norminn wrote:
clipped
was driving him into depression. I had a long talk with him about it
on how I've dealt with the same problem and how to beat it. A week
later he told me it was working. I've lost too many friends to pain
and don't want to lose any more. O_o

http://www.deasucks.com/

TDD

Alcohol is a no-no for gout ) My sympathy to anyone with the dang
disease...I had a friend (great mechanic) who got horrible gout
attacks but usually toughed it out. He stayed off booze during the
day, but had it ready as soon as he closed the shop doors....I always
tried to get in in the AM, before DT's started up ) A really good
person, too.

There are folks resorting to suicide when their pain meds are cut off
by those DEA creeps practicing medicine without a license. I can't
understand why terminally ill patients are being deprived of pain meds
when some government bureaucrat decides they might get addicted to the
drugs, it's insane to make people suffer. I live in constant pain but
I'm not going to kill myself or anyone else over it, I just cope. I do
really feel sorry for people suffering REAL pain, it hurts to look at
them because I understand what they're going through. Whenever I start
to feel sorry for myself, I just remember there are folks a lot worse
off than I am and they're coping. If they can do it so can I. O_o

TDD
Pain is still very often not properly treated. It should be.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 12/14/2012 3:29 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/14/2012 1:23 PM, Norminn wrote:
clipped
was driving him into depression. I had a long talk with him about it on
how I've dealt with the same problem and how to beat it. A week later he
told me it was working. I've lost too many friends to pain and don't
want to lose any more. O_o

http://www.deasucks.com/

TDD

Alcohol is a no-no for gout ) My sympathy to anyone with the dang
disease...I had a friend (great mechanic) who got horrible gout attacks
but usually toughed it out. He stayed off booze during the day, but had
it ready as soon as he closed the shop doors....I always tried to get in
in the AM, before DT's started up ) A really good person, too.

There are folks resorting to suicide when their pain meds are cut off by
those DEA creeps practicing medicine without a license. I can't
understand why terminally ill patients are being deprived of pain meds
when some government bureaucrat decides they might get addicted to the
drugs, it's insane to make people suffer. I live in constant pain but
I'm not going to kill myself or anyone else over it, I just cope. I do
really feel sorry for people suffering REAL pain, it hurts to look at
them because I understand what they're going through. Whenever I start
to feel sorry for myself, I just remember there are folks a lot worse
off than I am and they're coping. If they can do it so can I. O_o

TDD

During my working years as a nurse, I never witnessed a physician
addressing addicted or drug-seeking patients, they just keep writing
prescriptions....and I'm not talking about people with a need for pain
relief. Addiction is a huge problem in this country, and the "war on
drugs" probably does more to foster addiction than it does to impact
access...there are huge economic losses, in the workplace, welfare,
healthcare. My point is that there are hundreds of docs who do nothing
to assess real need for pain relief vs addiction, and there are loads of
"pain clinics" that are nothing more than supermarkets for narcotics.
Florida is among the worst, and there finally has been a real effort to
close down the doc's who are just selling narcotics. Some of the worst
had people coming from many other states, lining up in the parking lot,
just to buy narcs. Medicine, IMO, has changed from a profession to a
purely profit-driven business....doc's don't go to med school to serve
humanity, they go to become millionaires. Good docs who recognize
addiction should have no fear, either of turning away addicts or of
prescribing needed meds for people suffering pain. If your doc is
afraid of the DEA, it might be time to change docs. I've seen the
effects of addiction close up and personal, and have worked as a nurse
in a number of different settings impacted by abuse.

On 12/14/2012 2:40 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/14/2012 7:16 AM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/13/2012 8:02 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/13/2012 2:43 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since that's
where I believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I know
there are different vectors but a virus can get into you if you
touch contaminated surfaces then your mouth so the immune
response is going to start in the mucous membranes. Why not
start there? O_o

So far I myself have always gone with the shot, but I believe the
mist is supposed to be better. While your idea has appeal - that
is the location where you get the infection, so immunizing there
is better - I don't think that is necessarily the most important
reason.
Immune cells have a way to travel to the sites where they are
needed
anyway, so where the immunization takes place isn't very
important. I think the reason inhaling the mist is working so
well is the abundance of bloodvessels near the surface of the
nasal mucosa (design by Mother nature to get as fast as possible
at the bugs you breathe in). So entry of the vaccine into the
blood stream is easy and effective right there - no pain, all
gain. Addicts don't inject cocaine subcutaneously, they snort
it. For the anal retentive there is another route. In fact,
suppositories are a very effective way to introduce medications.


I'm no physician or medical expert, my field of study was physics
not medicine so I defer to the medical experts but I can read and
comprehend things scientific and from what I've read on the
respiratory system, it seems to me that a great deal of the body's
immune response mechanism is concentrated in the mouth and nose
where most everything is being taken into the body. I'm guessing
that the mucous membranes of the nose, mouth and lungs are going
to produce things like histamine a lot quicker than the skin. Is
it not true that some things that you may breathe in or swallow
may be harmless but devastating if you got them in a cut or
puncture of your skin? I'm just assuming that the immune system
has more resources concentrated around openings in the body even
though our marvelous immune systems go after invaders no matter
where they are. I have an idea that breathing in a vaccine may be
less likely to make me ill than an injection. Every time I've ever
received a flu shot, I have become very ill. ^_^

TDD

I was in medical research before I retired 2 years ago, but I am
far from a qualified physician. Nevertheless, getting sick from a
flu shot is something to talk to your doctor about, since it
suggests you are allergic to something in those shots. Better to
find out what it really is that makes you sick, since flu shots
aren't supposed to make you sick at all, at least not the ones in
the last 5-10 years.

Indeed, those parts of your body that come into contact with the
outside world are heavily defended by the immune system - your
skin, mouth, nose, gut etc. Therefore they have many blood vessels
(transportation network), and immune cells.


Yea, the trick question, "What's the largest organ of the human
body?" "The Skin." ^_^

That's often debated. My answer (actually one of the coauthors on
our paper) is the cells lining the blood vessels, endothelial cells.
In capillary blood vessels, that's the only cell surrounding them,
and there are a lot of capillaries, especially in skin and mucosa.


I'd have to defer to your expertise but as you point out the
multilayer skin contains a lot of those blood vessels? I suppose an
argument could be made that the interior walls of the blood vessels
have more surface area that the skin. I have no idea how to calculate
it but I'm sure some genius could do it. ^_^

TDD

My colleague Eric Jaffe calculated it. This was in 1980. A relevant few
sentences:
The surface area of an endothelial cell is ~30 x 50 micrometer (1,500
micrometer^2) (10) and the area of the capillary vasculature in a 70-kg
man is ~1,000 m2 (20). Thus the capillary vasculature of the average
subject is lined by ~7 x 10^11 endothelial cells.

This was in the J. Clin. Invest. vol 66 p979-986. This discussion is on
p985. The article is freely available at
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC371534/


Very cool! Thanks, that's going into my medical information collection.
I really love learning new things. I suppose I'll stop learning and
thirsting for information the day I die. ^_^

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/14/2012 2:40 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/14/2012 7:16 AM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/13/2012 8:02 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/13/2012 2:43 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since
that's where I believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I
know there are different vectors but a virus can get into you
if you touch contaminated surfaces then your mouth so the
immune response is going to start in the mucous membranes. Why
not start there? O_o

So far I myself have always gone with the shot, but I believe
the mist is supposed to be better. While your idea has appeal
- that is the location where you get the infection, so
immunizing there is better - I don't think that is necessarily
the most important reason.
Immune cells have a way to travel to the sites where they
are needed
anyway, so where the immunization takes place isn't very
important. I think the reason inhaling the mist is working so
well is the abundance of bloodvessels near the surface of the
nasal mucosa (design by Mother nature to get as fast as
possible at the bugs you breathe in). So entry of the vaccine
into the blood stream is easy and effective right there - no
pain, all gain. Addicts don't inject cocaine subcutaneously,
they snort it. For the anal retentive there is another route.
In fact, suppositories are a very effective way to introduce
medications.


I'm no physician or medical expert, my field of study was
physics not medicine so I defer to the medical experts but I can
read and comprehend things scientific and from what I've read on
the respiratory system, it seems to me that a great deal of the
body's immune response mechanism is concentrated in the mouth
and nose where most everything is being taken into the body. I'm
guessing that the mucous membranes of the nose, mouth and lungs
are going to produce things like histamine a lot quicker than
the skin. Is it not true that some things that you may breathe
in or swallow may be harmless but devastating if you got them in
a cut or puncture of your skin? I'm just assuming that the
immune system has more resources concentrated around openings in
the body even though our marvelous immune systems go after
invaders no matter where they are. I have an idea that breathing
in a vaccine may be less likely to make me ill than an
injection. Every time I've ever received a flu shot, I have
become very ill. ^_^

TDD

I was in medical research before I retired 2 years ago, but I am
far from a qualified physician. Nevertheless, getting sick from
a flu shot is something to talk to your doctor about, since it
suggests you are allergic to something in those shots. Better to
find out what it really is that makes you sick, since flu shots
aren't supposed to make you sick at all, at least not the ones in
the last 5-10 years.

Indeed, those parts of your body that come into contact with the
outside world are heavily defended by the immune system - your
skin, mouth, nose, gut etc. Therefore they have many blood
vessels (transportation network), and immune cells.


Yea, the trick question, "What's the largest organ of the human
body?" "The Skin." ^_^

That's often debated. My answer (actually one of the coauthors on
our paper) is the cells lining the blood vessels, endothelial
cells. In capillary blood vessels, that's the only cell surrounding
them, and there are a lot of capillaries, especially in skin and
mucosa.


I'd have to defer to your expertise but as you point out the
multilayer skin contains a lot of those blood vessels? I suppose an
argument could be made that the interior walls of the blood vessels
have more surface area that the skin. I have no idea how to
calculate it but I'm sure some genius could do it. ^_^

TDD

My colleague Eric Jaffe calculated it. This was in 1980. A relevant
few sentences:
The surface area of an endothelial cell is ~30 x 50 micrometer (1,500
micrometer^2) (10) and the area of the capillary vasculature in a
70-kg man is ~1,000 m2 (20). Thus the capillary vasculature of the
average subject is lined by ~7 x 10^11 endothelial cells.

This was in the J. Clin. Invest. vol 66 p979-986. This discussion is
on p985. The article is freely available at
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC371534/


Very cool! Thanks, that's going into my medical information
collection. I really love learning new things. I suppose I'll stop
learning and thirsting for information the day I die. ^_^

TDD

You're welcome!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 12/14/2012 8:24 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/14/2012 2:40 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/14/2012 7:16 AM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/13/2012 8:02 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

On 12/13/2012 2:43 PM, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in
:

I would be inclined to go with the mist up my nose since
that's where I believe the flu virus enters the body anyway. I
know there are different vectors but a virus can get into you
if you touch contaminated surfaces then your mouth so the
immune response is going to start in the mucous membranes. Why
not start there? O_o

So far I myself have always gone with the shot, but I believe
the mist is supposed to be better. While your idea has appeal
- that is the location where you get the infection, so
immunizing there is better - I don't think that is necessarily
the most important reason.
Immune cells have a way to travel to the sites where they
are needed
anyway, so where the immunization takes place isn't very
important. I think the reason inhaling the mist is working so
well is the abundance of bloodvessels near the surface of the
nasal mucosa (design by Mother nature to get as fast as
possible at the bugs you breathe in). So entry of the vaccine
into the blood stream is easy and effective right there - no
pain, all gain. Addicts don't inject cocaine subcutaneously,
they snort it. For the anal retentive there is another route.
In fact, suppositories are a very effective way to introduce
medications.


I'm no physician or medical expert, my field of study was
physics not medicine so I defer to the medical experts but I can
read and comprehend things scientific and from what I've read on
the respiratory system, it seems to me that a great deal of the
body's immune response mechanism is concentrated in the mouth
and nose where most everything is being taken into the body. I'm
guessing that the mucous membranes of the nose, mouth and lungs
are going to produce things like histamine a lot quicker than
the skin. Is it not true that some things that you may breathe
in or swallow may be harmless but devastating if you got them in
a cut or puncture of your skin? I'm just assuming that the
immune system has more resources concentrated around openings in
the body even though our marvelous immune systems go after
invaders no matter where they are. I have an idea that breathing
in a vaccine may be less likely to make me ill than an
injection. Every time I've ever received a flu shot, I have
become very ill. ^_^

TDD

I was in medical research before I retired 2 years ago, but I am
far from a qualified physician. Nevertheless, getting sick from
a flu shot is something to talk to your doctor about, since it
suggests you are allergic to something in those shots. Better to
find out what it really is that makes you sick, since flu shots
aren't supposed to make you sick at all, at least not the ones in
the last 5-10 years.

Indeed, those parts of your body that come into contact with the
outside world are heavily defended by the immune system - your
skin, mouth, nose, gut etc. Therefore they have many blood
vessels (transportation network), and immune cells.


Yea, the trick question, "What's the largest organ of the human
body?" "The Skin." ^_^

That's often debated. My answer (actually one of the coauthors on
our paper) is the cells lining the blood vessels, endothelial
cells. In capillary blood vessels, that's the only cell surrounding
them, and there are a lot of capillaries, especially in skin and
mucosa.


I'd have to defer to your expertise but as you point out the
multilayer skin contains a lot of those blood vessels? I suppose an
argument could be made that the interior walls of the blood vessels
have more surface area that the skin. I have no idea how to
calculate it but I'm sure some genius could do it. ^_^

TDD

My colleague Eric Jaffe calculated it. This was in 1980. A relevant
few sentences:
The surface area of an endothelial cell is ~30 x 50 micrometer (1,500
micrometer^2) (10) and the area of the capillary vasculature in a
70-kg man is ~1,000 m2 (20). Thus the capillary vasculature of the
average subject is lined by ~7 x 10^11 endothelial cells.

This was in the J. Clin. Invest. vol 66 p979-986. This discussion is
on p985. The article is freely available at
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC371534/


Very cool! Thanks, that's going into my medical information
collection. I really love learning new things. I suppose I'll stop
learning and thirsting for information the day I die. ^_^

TDD

You're welcome!


I developed a love of reading and learning when I was a kid and it has
never left me. I wish more people loved to learn but I suppose that's
too much to ask, I know people who have never read a book! Those are the
types who would come up to me as I was reading a newspaper and ask if
they could have the sports page. I tell them there are plenty of
newspapers in the machine over there and they answer that they're not
interested in that other junk in the paper. For some reason they would
get angry when I offered to sell them the sports section for what I paid
for the newspaper. ^_^

TDD

Sorry to hear that you and your friends have had al that trouble. Guess I'm
not qualified to apply for a job at your company. Which is a good thing. No
chronic pain is good.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...

Physicians tend to take a cookie cutter approach with drug dosages when
in reality everyone reacts differently with some of us being well
outside the norm on either end of the spectrum. Some of us like me will
have an opposite reaction to a drug. I've had stimulants make me drowsy
and depressants keep me wide awake. Perhaps I'm an outer space alien.
Everyone I work with is disabled in some way and living with chronic
pain, none of us gets any help from the government so we work for what
we get. My roommate has a congenital problem that looks like severe gout
and lives on Lortabs and alcohol. The DEA contacted his doctor and
told him his patient was getting too much of the drug based on pharmacy
records. His physician went to bat for him and told the DEA to quit
practicing medicine because they had no idea of the pain my roommate
suffered. My doctor friend who helps me is terrified that the DEA will
come in and shut him down and imprison him if he prescribes an amount
of pain medication based on patient need rather than what some guideline
calls for. One of the guys I work with owns a service business and lost
a kidney to cancer, he recently had other surgery and the chronic pain
was driving him into depression. I had a long talk with him about it on
how I've dealt with the same problem and how to beat it. A week later he
told me it was working. I've lost too many friends to pain and don't
want to lose any more. O_o

http://www.deasucks.com/

TDD