Last night, I got a call from church. Some folks
having a presentation, and need the spot light.
One of the fellows find out that his master key
doesn't work the closet where the lights are.

Called to ask which key works, and is there a key
in the building somewhere. No key in the building,
and I've got a key that works.

So, I drove to the building, and was running a little
late for my next appointment. I'm trying to decide
when to say "that's bad planning on your part, and
I'm not available to come in and rescue you."

How to decide? I hate to foster dependance "just get
Chris, he'll do anything".

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

In article , cayoung61
says...

Last night, I got a call from church. Some folks
having a presentation, and need the spot light.
One of the fellows find out that his master key
doesn't work the closet where the lights are.

Called to ask which key works, and is there a key
in the building somewhere. No key in the building,
and I've got a key that works.

So, I drove to the building, and was running a little
late for my next appointment. I'm trying to decide
when to say "that's bad planning on your part, and
I'm not available to come in and rescue you."

How to decide? I hate to foster dependance "just get
Chris, he'll do anything".


In a place of work, there are set procedures and various people
responsible for these things. So for that, yes "lack of planning".

But a church typically has volunteers and no steady employees who would
know various procedures, etc. A constant stream of new people learning
about these things.

Also not a heck of a lot of money to get all the locks properly keyed,
etc.

So in that case it is not easy to communicate to people what all they
need to do before hand when they want to use the facilities, etc. And as
soon as you teach them, they someone new comes along and you need to
start all over!

Do I know you? That's perfect description.

Scott Adams could write last night into a Dilbert comic strip, and it would
be fitting.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Bill" wrote in message
...

In a place of work, there are set procedures and various people
responsible for these things. So for that, yes "lack of planning".

But a church typically has volunteers and no steady employees who would
know various procedures, etc. A constant stream of new people learning
about these things.

Also not a heck of a lot of money to get all the locks properly keyed,
etc.

So in that case it is not easy to communicate to people what all they
need to do before hand when they want to use the facilities, etc. And as
soon as you teach them, they someone new comes along and you need to
start all over!

On 12/06/2012 06:11 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Last night, I got a call from church. Some folks
having a presentation, and need the spot light.
One of the fellows find out that his master key
doesn't work the closet where the lights are.

Called to ask which key works, and is there a key
in the building somewhere. No key in the building,
and I've got a key that works.

So, I drove to the building, and was running a little
late for my next appointment. I'm trying to decide
when to say "that's bad planning on your part, and
I'm not available to come in and rescue you."

How to decide? I hate to foster dependance "just get
Chris, he'll do anything".

Some people would really appreciated being needed in such a way; you
should consider yourself fortunate.

Jon

Ideally, yes. However, that day I'd been to the
building twice already, and was pressed for time
for my next appointment.

Another day of the week might have been different.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...

So, I drove to the building, and was running a little
late for my next appointment. I'm trying to decide
when to say "that's bad planning on your part, and
I'm not available to come in and rescue you."


Some people would really appreciated being
needed in such a way; you should consider
yourself fortunate.

Jon

On 12/6/2012 8:11 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Last night, I got a call from church. Some folks
having a presentation, and need the spot light.
One of the fellows find out that his master key
doesn't work the closet where the lights are.

Called to ask which key works, and is there a key
in the building somewhere. No key in the building,
and I've got a key that works.
....

So, if you've managed to leave them so the only key that does work is on
your person, what _should_ they do?

Sounds like the bad planning is on your end to me...

(Church trustee; there's a full set to everything in cabinet in closet
off the office...)

--

I know of two other people in my congregation who have a key that would open
that closet. You know, maybe I should figure out what closets are on odd
keys, and figure out who's got the keys. This was a rare moment. The other
two closets on odd keys, the people who need to get in have keys.

Time to step back, and look at the bigger picture, again. You're right, that
I need to step back and look at the process, etc. Thanks for getting me
thinking.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"dpb" wrote in message ...

So, if you've managed to leave them so the only key that does work is on
your person, what _should_ they do?

Sounds like the bad planning is on your end to me...

(Church trustee; there's a full set to everything in cabinet in closet
off the office...)

--

On Dec 6, 2:37*pm, dpb wrote:
On 12/6/2012 8:11 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote: Last night, I got a call from church. Some folks
having a presentation, and need the spot light.
One of the fellows find out that his master key
doesn't work the closet where the lights are.

Called to ask which key works, and is there a key
in the building somewhere. No key in the building,
and I've got a key that works.

...

So, if you've managed to leave them so the only key that does work is on
your person, what _should_ they do?

Sounds like the bad planning is on your end to me...

(Church trustee; there's a full set to everything in cabinet in closet
off the office...)

--

....but of course the closet is locked and only one person has the
key. ;-)

On Dec 6, 9:11*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Last night, I got a call from church. Some folks
having a presentation, and need the spot light.
One of the fellows find out that his master key
doesn't work the closet where the lights are.

Called to ask which key works, and is there a key
in the building somewhere. No key in the building,
and I've got a key that works.

So, I drove to the building, and was running a little
late for my next appointment. I'm trying to decide
when to say "that's bad planning on your part, and
I'm not available to come in and rescue you."

How to decide? I hate to foster dependance "just get
Chris, he'll do anything".

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

Couldn't he get God to shine a light on his devoted followers? ;-)

BTW...I don't think you should call it a "master key" since it
obviously isn't.

Oh, that hurt.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Dec 6, 2:37 pm, dpb wrote:

Sounds like the bad planning is on your end to me...

(Church trustee; there's a full set to everything in cabinet in closet
off the office...)

--

....but of course the closet is locked and only one person has the
key. ;-)

You know, that's best idea yet.

You're correct, it's either a master, within a great grand master system.
Or, it's a submaster, in a master key system.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

Couldn't he get God to shine a light on his devoted followers? ;-)

BTW...I don't think you should call it a "master key" since it
obviously isn't.

On 12/6/2012 2:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
....

...but of course the closet is locked and only one person has the
key. ;-)

Au contraire, the closet _is_ locked, but there's a key to it available
from within the office if one only knows where'st to look...

And, there are any number of office keys including some in hidey-holes...

A newbie may not know where to look precisely w/o a phone call, but the
likelihood of somebody else having to do more than answer the phone call
is quite low.

--

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Last night, I got a call from church. Some folks
having a presentation, and need the spot light.
One of the fellows find out that his master key
doesn't work the closet where the lights are.

Called to ask which key works, and is there a key
in the building somewhere. No key in the building,
and I've got a key that works.

So, I drove to the building, and was running a little
late for my next appointment. I'm trying to decide
when to say "that's bad planning on your part, and
I'm not available to come in and rescue you."

How to decide? I hate to foster dependance "just get
Chris, he'll do anything".


Let me guess, you cut his non-working master key, right?




--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter. (Winston Churchill)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

His master works nicely, to my knowledge. I didn't try. Well, works on the
locks it's supposed to operate.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Larry W" wrote in message
...

Let me guess, you cut his non-working master key, right?

On Dec 6, 9:57*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
His master works nicely, to my knowledge. I didn't try. Well, works on the
locks it's supposed to operate.

Teach them how to pick locks.

Naah, just get about 200 copies of the great grand master, and hand them out
to everyone in church next Sunday.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Thomas" wrote in message
...
On Dec 6, 9:57 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
His master works nicely, to my knowledge. I didn't try. Well, works on the
locks it's supposed to operate.

Teach them how to pick locks.

In article , cayoung61
says...

I know of two other people in my congregation who have a key that would open
that closet...


Perhaps the least expensive thing to do would be to take the door lock
for that closet to a locksmith and have them make it so the "master"
keys also operate that door?

And the question is... If someone can be trusted with a "master" key, is
there any reason you would not want those people to also be able to
access that closet?

Are they thieves? :-)

(If they are Mormons... Well Mormons are known for their honesty and
trustworthiness. So not to worry!)

And if your church falls into a pool of money or you have a locksmith in
the congregation, then perhaps a review of all door locks and which keys
should be allowed to open what would be in order...

Maybe you would allow the community (non congregation people) to use
certain rooms say for a class or whatever. And would not want to give
them access to anything else? But maybe access to the lighting controls
might be necessary?

Or maybe to a kitchen?
Bathrooms if those are locked?

Etc.

The church has its own people who repin the locks, so that's less of an
issue. That closed used to be under care of a different subset of the
people. It may be time to repin that lock, will have to float the idea and
see if anyone cares.

Thanks for helping think out the situation.

Anyway, do you have any comment on the original question I asked?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Bill" wrote in message
t...

Perhaps the least expensive thing to do would be to take the door lock
for that closet to a locksmith and have them make it so the "master"
keys also operate that door?

And the question is... If someone can be trusted with a "master" key, is
there any reason you would not want those people to also be able to
access that closet?

Are they thieves? :-)

(If they are Mormons... Well Mormons are known for their honesty and
trustworthiness. So not to worry!)

And if your church falls into a pool of money or you have a locksmith in
the congregation, then perhaps a review of all door locks and which keys
should be allowed to open what would be in order...

Maybe you would allow the community (non congregation people) to use
certain rooms say for a class or whatever. And would not want to give
them access to anything else? But maybe access to the lighting controls
might be necessary?

Or maybe to a kitchen?
Bathrooms if those are locked?

Etc.

On Dec 7, 2:05*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
The church has its own people who repin the locks, so that's less of an
issue. That closed used to be under care of a different subset of the
people. It may be time to repin that lock, will have to float the idea and
see if anyone cares.

Thanks for helping think out the situation.

Anyway, do you have any comment on the original question I asked?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"Bill" wrote in message

t...

Perhaps the least expensive thing to do would be to take the door lock
for that closet to a locksmith and have them make it so the "master"
keys also operate that door?

And the question is... If someone can be trusted with a "master" key, is
there any reason you would not want those people to also be able to
access that closet?

Are they thieves? :-)

(If they are Mormons... Well Mormons are known for their honesty and
trustworthiness. So not to worry!)

And if your church falls into a pool of money or you have a locksmith in
the congregation, then perhaps a review of all door locks and which keys
should be allowed to open what would be in order...

Maybe you would allow the community (non congregation people) to use
certain rooms say for a class or whatever. And would not want to give
them access to anything else? But maybe access to the lighting controls
might be necessary?

Or maybe to a kitchen?
Bathrooms if those are locked?

Etc.

I'm not sure the original question applies anymore.

If you are the only one who has a working key to every door then they
are dependent on you. You can't change that dependence but you can
change the process to eliminate it.

Your plan to float the idea of re-pinning of the closet so that there
are multiple keys that work will solve that problem to a large extent.
If they are in any way an understanding organization, the simple
explanation of "I can not be expected to be available 24-7 to run over
to the church to unlock doors, so let's spread the responsibility
around a bit" should work.

Maybe 4 people with working keys on call for a week at a time would
work. Maybe consider a combination locked key cabinet so that a phone
call gets users the combo in an emergency and the combo is changed
soon afterwards. That would at least allow the situation to be handled
from a distance and save a trip.

Bottom line is that as long as you are the only one with a full set of
working keys - and a phone - they will always be dependent on you. The
power to fix that is in your own hands.

I can think of probably 5 people in the
congregation who have a key to that door,
so it renders the rest of your comment less
than useful..

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

Bottom line is that as long as you are the only one with a full set of
working keys - and a phone - they will always be dependent on you. The
power to fix that is in your own hands.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote:
I can think of probably 5 people in the
congregation who have a key to that door,
so it renders the rest of your comment less
than useful..

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

Bottom line is that as long as you are the only one with a full set of
working keys - and a phone - they will always be dependent on you. The
power to fix that is in your own hands.

Well, since you didn't mention that in your first post, why didn't you
simply tell the caller "Sorry, I'm not able to come by the church the right
now. Please try calling (insert names of the other key holders) to see if
one of them is available."

If you are trying to not foster dependence on you and only you, you should
be letting people know that they have other options.

Besides, how can you call my comments useless since I suggested that you
set up a rotation amongst the key holders? If there's at least 6 people who
have a key, then no one would be on call more than once every 6 weeks. My
comment to set up a rotation still stands, but it's up to you to approach
the others (or the board) to put the process in place.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I'm not the only person with a set of keys and a phone. Your last post
was
based on that premise.

As to your suggestion of some kind of rotation. That's interesting, but
doesn't reallly adress my original questsion. How do I know when to run
over
and rescue them, versus decline or hand them off?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

I had a similar 'job' with a church in very rural NC. No one wanted the
job of key keeper. I found an old key safe (came from an old hotel) with a
simple but secure coding system where I could change the pass code when it
was convenient for me.

I kept the keys but had duplicates in the pigeon holes in the key safe.
When folk wanted in they called I gave the code to the keys they needed with
instructions to lock up and put the key in a slot box by the key safe.

Worked for me for years and to my knowledge is still working for my
replacement.

New youth pastor is a computer nut and is planning a wifi remote automated
controlled system that can be locked/unlocked by cell phone.

I'm waiting for him to find out (the hard way) that the electrical panned is
behind one of the locked doors.

Prayer is a strong thing but I doubt it's strong enough to unlock an
electric lock when the powers out ... and then and then along comes those
pesky ice storms.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Last night, I got a call from church. Some folks
having a presentation, and need the spot light.
One of the fellows find out that his master key
doesn't work the closet where the lights are.

Called to ask which key works, and is there a key
in the building somewhere. No key in the building,
and I've got a key that works.

So, I drove to the building, and was running a little
late for my next appointment. I'm trying to decide
when to say "that's bad planning on your part, and
I'm not available to come in and rescue you."

How to decide? I hate to foster dependance "just get
Chris, he'll do anything".

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org


The easy solution for the situation at hand would have been "I have to go
to XYZ place. meet me there and I will lend you the key"

Charlie

Brilliant. I'd never thought of that.
Thank you.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Charlie" wrote in message
...

The easy solution for the situation at hand
would have been "I have to go
to XYZ place. meet me there and I will
lend you the key"

Charlie

That sounds like a very workable solution. Thank you for sharing.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"NotMe" wrote in message ...

I had a similar 'job' with a church in very rural NC. No one wanted the
job of key keeper. I found an old key safe (came from an old hotel) with a
simple but secure coding system where I could change the pass code when it
was convenient for me.

I kept the keys but had duplicates in the pigeon holes in the key safe.
When folk wanted in they called I gave the code to the keys they needed with
instructions to lock up and put the key in a slot box by the key safe.

Worked for me for years and to my knowledge is still working for my
replacement.

New youth pastor is a computer nut and is planning a wifi remote automated
controlled system that can be locked/unlocked by cell phone.

I'm waiting for him to find out (the hard way) that the electrical panned is
behind one of the locked doors.

Prayer is a strong thing but I doubt it's strong enough to unlock an
electric lock when the powers out ... and then and then along comes those
pesky ice storms.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote:
I'm not the only person with a set of keys and a phone. Your last post was
based on that premise.

As to your suggestion of some kind of rotation. That's interesting, but
doesn't reallly adress my original questsion. How do I know when to run over
and rescue them, versus decline or hand them off?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

Well, since you didn't mention that in your first post, why didn't you
simply tell the caller "Sorry, I'm not able to come by the church the right
now. Please try calling (insert names of the other key holders) to see if
one of them is available."

If you are trying to not foster dependence on you and only you, you should
be letting people know that they have other options.

Besides, how can you call my comments useless since I suggested that you
set up a rotation amongst the key holders? If there's at least 6 people who
have a key, then no one would be on call more than once every 6 weeks. My
comment to set up a rotation still stands, but it's up to you to approach
the others (or the board) to put the process in place.

I'm not quite sure why you seem to be fighting with me over this, but if
that's your mood, go right ahead.

How was I or anyone else supposed to know that you are not the only one
with the key? The fact that all you said was that they called you and you
went over, without mentioning that they could have called someone else,
seemed to imply, at least to me, that you were the only option. My
apologies for not being able to read your mind from this far away.

As far as how to "know when to run over and rescue them, versus decline or
hand them off" I believe I addressed that. If you set up a rotation, then
you rescue them during your week and hand them off during the others. Of
course, if the rotation is set up, then it should be posted where others
can find it and you may not get any calls except during your week.

You asked for a suggestion on how to stop them from always calling you. I
offered a suggestion. You found my suggestion "interesting", yet you are
still asking me to address your original question of "how to stop them from
calling Chris".

This circle is making me dizzy.

In article , cayoung61
says...

I'm not the only person with a set of keys and a phone. Your last post was
based on that premise.

As to your suggestion of some kind of rotation. That's interesting, but
doesn't reallly adress my original questsion. How do I know when to run over
and rescue them, versus decline or hand them off?


If it is the *same* person having the *same* trouble again and again.