Anybody ever use one of these?

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...ex?sku=0125617

I was thinking of using these to fix the screen on my woodstove. The screen itself is about 16" by 21" by 0.75" sheet metal tray with hundreds of little holes in the surface to allow a view of the fire while retaining sparks. It has a segment of metal welded into each side of the perforated face, with a 1/4-20 threaded hole in each; a threaded rod assembly goes through and is turned to engage a catch that holds the screen on.

The catches have been jamming lately and examination reveals that the threads in the welded inserts are worn, while the shafts are OK. From this, I assume that the inserts were a softer steel than the shafts. This is an old stove and they don't make replacement parts anymore, so I was thinking of drilling out the holes and tapping in the nutserts. I'd thread a bolt into the nutsert before tapping to prevent distorting the threads.

Paul

On Nov 24, 12:38*pm, Pavel314 wrote:
Anybody ever use one of these?

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...ex?sku=0125617

I was thinking of using these to fix the screen on my woodstove. The screen itself is about 16" by 21" by 0.75" sheet metal tray with hundreds of little holes in the surface to allow a view of the fire while retaining sparks. It has a segment of metal welded into each side of the perforated face, with a 1/4-20 threaded hole in each; a threaded rod assembly goes through and is turned to engage a catch that holds the screen on.

The catches have been jamming lately and examination reveals that the threads in the welded inserts are worn, while the shafts are OK. From this, I assume that the inserts were a softer steel than the shafts. This is an old stove and they don't make replacement parts anymore, so I was thinking of drilling out the holes and tapping in the nutserts. I'd thread a bolt into the nutsert before tapping to prevent distorting the threads.

Paul

These inserts will work just fine. Installation requires a tool.

cheers
Bob

Apparently an expensive tool! I wonder if the nutset could collapsed and
set by tightening a nut/washer on a on bolt threaded through the back end of
the rivet?

"DD_BobK" wrote in message
...
On Nov 24, 12:38 pm, Pavel314 wrote:
Anybody ever use one of these?

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...ex?sku=0125617

I was thinking of using these to fix the screen on my woodstove. The
screen itself is about 16" by 21" by 0.75" sheet metal tray with hundreds
of little holes in the surface to allow a view of the fire while retaining
sparks. It has a segment of metal welded into each side of the perforated
face, with a 1/4-20 threaded hole in each; a threaded rod assembly goes
through and is turned to engage a catch that holds the screen on.

The catches have been jamming lately and examination reveals that the
threads in the welded inserts are worn, while the shafts are OK. From
this, I assume that the inserts were a softer steel than the shafts. This
is an old stove and they don't make replacement parts anymore, so I was
thinking of drilling out the holes and tapping in the nutserts. I'd thread
a bolt into the nutsert before tapping to prevent distorting the threads.

Paul

These inserts will work just fine. Installation requires a tool.

cheers
Bob

Harbor Freight has nut inserts, aluminum.

The web page you linked, steel only, should
do the job for you. The install tool is a little
like a pop rivet tool.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"DD_BobK" wrote in message
...

These inserts will work just fine. Installation requires a tool.

cheers
Bob

I'd try a grade 8 bolt, then a couple washers
and a grade 8 nut. Hold the bolt head, and
then tighten the grade 8 nut. Might not work,
test on some other item first.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"John Keiser" wrote in message
news:CsGdncRO_PIf3yzNnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@powerusenet. com...
Apparently an expensive tool! I wonder if the
nutset could collapsed and set by tightening a
nut/washer on a on bolt threaded through the
back end of the rivet?

On Saturday, November 24, 2012 6:53:18 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd try a grade 8 bolt, then a couple washers

and a grade 8 nut. Hold the bolt head, and

then tighten the grade 8 nut. Might not work,

test on some other item first.



Christopher A. Young

My idea was to drill out the hole, heat the insert red hot with a propane torch, quickly place the hole over a socket and hammer the thing into place.

Paul

Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org

.



"John Keiser" wrote in message

news:CsGdncRO_PIf3yzNnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@powerusenet. com...

Apparently an expensive tool! I wonder if the

nutset could collapsed and set by tightening a

nut/washer on a on bolt threaded through the

back end of the rivet?

Your wood stove will also get hot so may be expanding and contracting daily,
weaking any simple friction fit. Pinching this rivet-like fitting [that
seems to be the proper application] might yield longer-term stability.

"Pavel314" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, November 24, 2012 6:53:18 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd try a grade 8 bolt, then a couple washers

and a grade 8 nut. Hold the bolt head, and

then tighten the grade 8 nut. Might not work,

test on some other item first.



Christopher A. Young

My idea was to drill out the hole, heat the insert red hot with a propane
torch, quickly place the hole over a socket and hammer the thing into
place.

Paul

Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org

.



"John Keiser" wrote in message

news:CsGdncRO_PIf3yzNnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@powerusenet. com...

Apparently an expensive tool! I wonder if the

nutset could collapsed and set by tightening a

nut/washer on a on bolt threaded through the

back end of the rivet?

On 11/24/2012 2:38 PM, Pavel314 wrote:
Anybody ever use one of these?

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...ex?sku=0125617

I was thinking of using these to fix the screen on my woodstove. The
screen itself is about 16" by 21" by 0.75" sheet metal tray with
hundreds of little holes in the surface to allow a view of the fire
while retaining sparks. It has a segment of metal welded into each
side of the perforated face, with a 1/4-20 threaded hole in each; a
threaded rod assembly goes through and is turned to engage a catch
that holds the screen on.

The catches have been jamming lately and examination reveals that the
threads in the welded inserts are worn, while the shafts are OK. From
this, I assume that the inserts were a softer steel than the shafts.
This is an old stove and they don't make replacement parts anymore,
so I was thinking of drilling out the holes and tapping in the
nutserts. I'd thread a bolt into the nutsert before tapping to
prevent distorting the threads.

Paul


Here's the set I own, manufactured by Marson and carried by many
suppliers. I have purchased two of them over the years from NAPA.

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...ex?sku=0126104

A similar looking tool is sold by Harbor Freight at a much lower
price and will become one of your most useful tools if you decide
to buy one of them. ^_^

http://www.harborfreight.com/45-piec...-kit-1210.html

http://tinyurl.com/cz9nket

TDD

Paul:

"Nutsert" is just Fastenal's name for this kind of fastener. If you go to Google Images, and type in "insert nut", you'll see all kinds of variations on the same theme.

I use "flanged insert nuts" like these"



to install prefab counter tops onto the existing plywood square edge counter tops in my building, and they seem to work fine. Mine are made of aluminum and have a Allen key drive at the flanged end, 1/4" X 20tpi machine threads on the ID and "external threads" (kinda) on the OD so that they can be driven into a predrilled hole in particle board. I use 4 flanged insert nuts per counter top and have two counter tops in each suite for a total of 160 flanged insert nuts. I haven't had any problems with any of them so far.

You should also be aware that you can buy "perforated metal" in stainless steel, brass and aluminum to make a new screen if you want:



Just phone up any of the places listed under "Sheet Metal" in your yellow pages phone directory and ask who sells perforated metal in your area.

On Nov 24, 6:38*pm, Pavel314 wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2012 6:53:18 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd try a grade 8 bolt, then a couple washers

and a grade 8 nut. Hold the bolt head, and

then tighten the grade 8 nut. Might not work,

test on some other item first.

Christopher A. Young

My idea was to drill out the hole, heat the insert red hot with a propane torch, quickly place the hole over a socket and hammer the thing into place.

Paul







My idea was to drill out the hole, heat the insert red hot with a propane torch, quickly place the hole over a socket and hammer the thing into place.
Paul

If you are serious about such a substantial departure from "normal"
installation, I would suggest doing so on a disposable test piece.
These "inserts" are designed to be symmetrically pulled / compressed
into place....not heated and hammered.

On a scale of 1 to 10, your proposed method is about a 2.

Get the proper tool.

Could work. I'd try a couple of samples, not on your fireplace grate. Till
you get the feel of how they behave.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Pavel314" wrote in message
...
My idea was to drill out the hole, heat the insert red hot with a propane
torch, quickly place the hole over a socket and hammer the thing into place.

Paul

Use the HF tool, with the other company's inserts?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...ex?sku=0125617


A similar looking tool is sold by Harbor Freight at a much lower
price and will become one of your most useful tools if you decide
to buy one of them. ^_^

http://www.harborfreight.com/45-piec...-kit-1210.html

http://tinyurl.com/cz9nket

TDD

On 11/25/2012 6:29 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Use the HF tool, with the other company's inserts?


As long as the tool's threaded mandrel matches the threads in the
riv-nut, it will install it. The Harbor Freight tool while inexpensive
has steel handles and should be able to install both aluminum and steel
riv-nuts. My Marson tool is a much higher quality but for someone who
is going to use riv-nuts around the home and light commercial use, the
Harbor Freight tool is fine. If you don't have one, pick one up and you
will soon discover how useful the riv-nuts are and you will trip over
applications for them that will surprise you. It will become a favorite
tool. ^_^

TDD

On 11/24/2012 8:38 PM, Pavel314 wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2012 6:53:18 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd try a grade 8 bolt, then a couple washers

and a grade 8 nut. Hold the bolt head, and

then tighten the grade 8 nut. Might not work,

test on some other item first.



Christopher A. Young

My idea was to drill out the hole, heat the insert red hot with a propane torch, quickly place the hole over a socket and hammer the thing into place.


Heating the insert makes it expand and fit worse.

I would try a bolt, as above, to pull the insert in. Or hammering it in
cold. Heating the screen and cooling the insert? Looks like really small
ribs on the insert.

On Sunday, November 25, 2012 10:38:19 AM UTC-5, bud-- wrote:
On 11/24/2012 8:38 PM, Pavel314 wrote: On Saturday, November 24, 2012 6:53:18 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote: I'd try a grade 8 bolt, then a couple washers and a grade 8 nut. Hold the bolt head, and then tighten the grade 8 nut. Might not work, test on some other item first. Christopher A. Young My idea was to drill out the hole, heat the insert red hot with a propane torch, quickly place the hole over a socket and hammer the thing into place. Heating the insert makes it expand and fit worse. I would try a bolt, as above, to pull the insert in. Or hammering it in cold. Heating the screen and cooling the insert? Looks like really small ribs on the insert.

Poor wording on my part; by "insert" I was referring to the metal plate with the threaded hole which was inserted into the spark screen, not the rivet itself. I'm going to take Stormin's advice and tighten it in with a bolt. I stopped at our local Fastenal today but that part wasn't in stock, so they ordered a few.

Please do three or four, on a separate metal. To
get the feel for the operation, without risking damage
to your real work. And, please, let us know how
it works out. Could be a totally useful process for
us to learn.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Pavel314" wrote in message
...

Poor wording on my part; by "insert" I was referring to the metal plate with
the threaded hole which was inserted into the spark screen, not the rivet
itself. I'm going to take Stormin's advice and tighten it in with a bolt. I
stopped at our local Fastenal today but that part wasn't in stock, so they
ordered a few.