hr(bob) wrote:
My computer is telling the correct hourly time. Is it because the new
rules for changing our clocks happened to give the same day as if we
followed the old rules? Or, did one of the Microsoft Windows XP
updates put some new intelligence into my machine?

Hi,
Usual thing when you set the clock setting with DST enabled.
Most of clocks in my house is atomic time based. My utility watch
(Casjo Wave Center with solar cell) all know DST time setting back
and forth. Our home thermostat does the same.

In article ,
Tony Hwang wrote:

hr(bob) wrote:
My computer is telling the correct hourly time. Is it because the new
rules for changing our clocks happened to give the same day as if we
followed the old rules? Or, did one of the Microsoft Windows XP
updates put some new intelligence into my machine?

Hi,
Usual thing when you set the clock setting with DST enabled.
Most of clocks in my house is atomic time based. My utility watch
(Casjo Wave Center with solar cell) all know DST time setting back
and forth. Our home thermostat does the same.

Living in Indiana where is has only be the last few years where we
started with Daylight time, for most computers the DST changeover is
automatic. Remember when we started using DST one of the OS updates said
that one the included changes was Indiana now observing DST. I was so
proud (grin)
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:28:27 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Tony Hwang wrote:

hr(bob) wrote:
My computer is telling the correct hourly time. Is it because the new
rules for changing our clocks happened to give the same day as if we
followed the old rules? Or, did one of the Microsoft Windows XP
updates put some new intelligence into my machine?

Hi,
Usual thing when you set the clock setting with DST enabled.
Most of clocks in my house is atomic time based. My utility watch
(Casjo Wave Center with solar cell) all know DST time setting back
and forth. Our home thermostat does the same.

Living in Indiana where is has only be the last few years where we
started with Daylight time, for most computers the DST changeover is
automatic. Remember when we started using DST one of the OS updates said
that one the included changes was Indiana now observing DST. I was so
proud (grin)

I'm outraged. I've proudly told people how my former state ignores
DST. Now I'll look like a fool to them.

On 11/04/2012 06:23 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:


hr(bob) wrote:
My computer is telling the correct hourly time. Is it because the new
rules for changing our clocks happened to give the same day as if we
followed the old rules? Or, did one of the Microsoft Windows XP
updates put some new intelligence into my machine?

Hi,
Usual thing when you set the clock setting with DST enabled.
Most of clocks in my house is atomic time based. My utility watch
(Casjo Wave Center with solar cell) all know DST time setting back
and forth. Our home thermostat does the same.

I see ads for clocks that claim to set themselves. They don't really,
but will adapt to DST (change hour twice a year). Of course, they won't
do anything about clock drift, so you still need to check occaisionally.

--
51 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:00:00 AM).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"Asking if computers can think, is like asking if submarines can swim."

On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:00:33 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 11/04/2012 06:23 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:


hr(bob) wrote:
My computer is telling the correct hourly time. Is it because the new
rules for changing our clocks happened to give the same day as if we
followed the old rules? Or, did one of the Microsoft Windows XP
updates put some new intelligence into my machine?

Hi,
Usual thing when you set the clock setting with DST enabled.
Most of clocks in my house is atomic time based. My utility watch
(Casjo Wave Center with solar cell) all know DST time setting back
and forth. Our home thermostat does the same.

I see ads for clocks that claim to set themselves. They don't really,
but will adapt to DST (change hour twice a year). Of course, they won't
do anything about clock drift, so you still need to check occaisionally.

There are so-called "atomic clocks" that do set themselves using a
signal from a satellite. I have a small one that I got very cheaply
at a hamfest, and after a year, I still haven't noticed if it works
right or not, though it seems to keep good time. This morning it
was no longer on DST. The problem is that when it is updating the
time, it is supposed to display the image of radiation semi-circles
coming from the image of an antenna, and when it does that, it stays
that way for hours, when I can't imagine it takes more than ???
minutes to update the time.

They aren't really atomic, but the clock whose time they receive is
probably atomic. Little known, the one at the US Naval Observatory
in DC is open for tours one weeknight a week. iirc, along with being
allowed to look through the telescope and one other thing I forget. I
was there when Dan Quayle was living on the same property, and I hope
the tours are still given.

The telescope will only see rather bright things, because it's located
in the middle of NW DC, but there is also the U of Maryland telescope
near College Park which is open for tours one day a month iirc, and
the day of the week varies. Maybe it's the same day of each month.
With their 2 telescopes, I was able to see Saturn and its rings for
the first time (incredible) and two other planets and probably some
stars IIRC both tours are free, though you should make a
reservation and each is worth driving from Baltimore, let alone
closer. At least on a clear night.

micky wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:00:33 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:


There are so-called "atomic clocks" that do set themselves using a
signal from a satellite. I have a small one that I got very cheaply
at a hamfest, and

I don't know of any clocks except gps and such that use a satellite. Ground
beacons are sent from Colorado from NIST. Once, they used to broadcast from
near DC area. You usually can't pick up the signals during the day.

I don't know if they have more than one cesium clock at the colarado
station. It used to be, the standard was averaged from banks of cesium beam
units near DC.separated from each other, along with one or more hydrogen
masers. The Current beacons may be synced by satellites.

Greg

On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 03:36:36 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

micky wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:00:33 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:


There are so-called "atomic clocks" that do set themselves using a
signal from a satellite. I have a small one that I got very cheaply
at a hamfest, and

I don't know of any clocks except gps and such that use a satellite. Ground
beacons are sent from Colorado from NIST. Once, they used to broadcast from
near DC area. You usually can't pick up the signals during the day.

I guess you're right.
http://www.weatherconnection.com/pro...FUKd4Aod52gAHA
Only $14. Mine was more money origianally but very similar. It had
no box and I found brief instructions online, but they probably didn't
mention what you said.

" The atomic clock is updated daily to within one second of official
U.S. government time via radio signal from Fort Collins, Colorado, and
never needs resetting. The clock is accurate to within one second of
official U.S. government time.

This atomic alarm clock is also easily programmed to reflect which
available time zone you’re in (Pacific,Central, Eastern or Mountain)
and operates manually if traveling outside of the continental U.S. "

I also found a wris****ch
http://www.amazon.com/Casio-WV58A-1A...=clocks+atomic
under 30 dollars

I don't know if they have more than one cesium clock at the colarado
station. It used to be, the standard was averaged from banks of cesium beam
units near DC.separated from each other, along with one or more hydrogen
masers. The Current beacons may be synced by satellites.

Greg

On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 22:47:20 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 03:36:36 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

micky wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:00:33 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:


There are so-called "atomic clocks" that do set themselves using a
signal from a satellite. I have a small one that I got very cheaply
at a hamfest, and

I don't know of any clocks except gps and such that use a satellite. Ground
beacons are sent from Colorado from NIST. Once, they used to broadcast from
near DC area. You usually can't pick up the signals during the day.

I guess you're right.
http://www.weatherconnection.com/pro...FUKd4Aod52gAHA
Only $14. Mine was more money origianally but very similar. It had
no box and I found brief instructions online, but they probably didn't
mention what you said.

Nope, I found them and they say just what you said

"This clock is designed to automatically synchronize its calendar
clock once it is brought within the range of the WWVB radio signal
broadcast from Ft. Collins, Colorado. When the unit is within range,
its radio-control mechanism will override all manual settings unless
auto-reception of radio signal has been manually deactivated.
When the clock is receiving radio signal, the radio reception icon
will start to blink. A complete reception generally takes about 2 to
10 minutes, depending on the strength of the radio signal. When the
reception is complete, the radio reception icon will stop blinking.
The strength of the reception for the last full hour will be
indicated.
For better reception, place the unit away from metal objects and
electrical appliances to minimize interference.
Should you wish to deactivate the RF controlled function, press and
hold [DOWN] button for 3 seconds. The radio reception icon will
disappear. To reactivate the RF controlled function, press and hold
[UP] button for 3 seconds again and the radio reception icon will be
re-displayed."

RADIO-CONTROLLED TRAVEL
ALARM CLOCK WITH WORLD TIME
MODEL NO.: RM323A

" The atomic clock is updated daily to within one second of official
U.S. government time via radio signal from Fort Collins, Colorado, and
never needs resetting. The clock is accurate to within one second of
official U.S. government time.

This atomic alarm clock is also easily programmed to reflect which
available time zone you’re in (Pacific,Central, Eastern or Mountain)
and operates manually if traveling outside of the continental U.S. "

I think this last sentence is interesting.

I also found a wris****ch
http://www.amazon.com/Casio-WV58A-1A...=clocks+atomic
under 30 dollars

I don't know if they have more than one cesium clock at the colarado
station. It used to be, the standard was averaged from banks of cesium beam
units near DC.separated from each other, along with one or more hydrogen
masers. The Current beacons may be synced by satellites.

Greg

micky wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 03:36:36 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

micky wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:00:33 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:


There are so-called "atomic clocks" that do set themselves using a
signal from a satellite. I have a small one that I got very cheaply
at a hamfest, and

I don't know of any clocks except gps and such that use a satellite. Ground
beacons are sent from Colorado from NIST. Once, they used to broadcast from
near DC area. You usually can't pick up the signals during the day.

I guess you're right.
http://www.weatherconnection.com/pro...FUKd4Aod52gAHA
Only $14. Mine was more money origianally but very similar. It had
no box and I found brief instructions online, but they probably didn't
mention what you said.

" The atomic clock is updated daily to within one second of official
U.S. government time via radio signal from Fort Collins, Colorado, and
never needs resetting. The clock is accurate to within one second of
official U.S. government time.

This atomic alarm clock is also easily programmed to reflect which
available time zone youÂ’re in (Pacific,Central, Eastern or Mountain)
and operates manually if traveling outside of the continental U.S. "

I also found a wris****ch
http://www.amazon.com/Casio-WV58A-1A...=clocks+atomic
under 30 dollars

I don't know if they have more than one cesium clock at the colarado
station. It used to be, the standard was averaged from banks of cesium beam
units near DC.separated from each other, along with one or more hydrogen
masers. The Current beacons may be synced by satellites.

Greg

I was reading they started using a new protocol modulation for newer
receivers. Some really old receivers may stop working. This is lower
frequency band, really low, but not as old as old stations that used to
transmit signals to subs. That was audio frequency. I have not listened o
shortwave wwvb in a long time. The time code could be read by the changing
of tones, really a low speed, but took less than a minute, then a 1 minute
sync signal.

Greg

"Mark Lloyd" wrote

I see ads for clocks that claim to set themselves. They don't really, but
will adapt to DST (change hour twice a year). Of course, they won't do
anything about clock drift, so you still need to check occaisionally.

Sure they set themselves. They listen to WWVB, the longwave radio station
of the NIST. They usually listen between 3 and 5am when interference on the
LW band is low. Here's more info on WWVB and those self-setting clocks:

WWVB Info: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/wwvb.cfm

"micky" wrote

There are so-called "atomic clocks" that do set themselves using a
signal from a satellite.

Nope, not satellite, but longwave, though some of the older ones use WWV in
the shortwave bands. Most use WWVB, though.

In article ,
micky wrote:


Living in Indiana where is has only be the last few years where we
started with Daylight time, for most computers the DST changeover is
automatic. Remember when we started using DST one of the OS updates said
that one the included changes was Indiana now observing DST. I was so
proud (grin)

I'm outraged. I've proudly told people how my former state ignores
DST. Now I'll look like a fool to them.

If it is any solace, we are now arguing about whether to switch from
Eastern to Central.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 06:34:59 -0500, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
micky wrote:


Living in Indiana where is has only be the last few years where we
started with Daylight time, for most computers the DST changeover is
automatic. Remember when we started using DST one of the OS updates said
that one the included changes was Indiana now observing DST. I was so
proud (grin)

I'm outraged. I've proudly told people how my former state ignores
DST. Now I'll look like a fool to them.

If it is any solace, we are now arguing about whether to switch from
Eastern to Central.

LOL. Indiana used to be in the Central time zone, in the early 50's
and earlier, and they, or some of them, worked for years and years to
get into the Eastern. Giving up DST was part of that, because it
put them on the same time as Eastern for half of the year.

P&M

On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 04:38:51 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

micky wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 03:36:36 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

micky wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:00:33 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:


There are so-called "atomic clocks" that do set themselves using a
signal from a satellite. I have a small one that I got very cheaply
at a hamfest, and

I don't know of any clocks except gps and such that use a satellite. Ground
beacons are sent from Colorado from NIST. Once, they used to broadcast from
near DC area. You usually can't pick up the signals during the day.

I guess you're right.
http://www.weatherconnection.com/pro...FUKd4Aod52gAHA
Only $14. Mine was more money origianally but very similar. It had
no box and I found brief instructions online, but they probably didn't
mention what you said.

" The atomic clock is updated daily to within one second of official
U.S. government time via radio signal from Fort Collins, Colorado, and
never needs resetting. The clock is accurate to within one second of
official U.S. government time.

This atomic alarm clock is also easily programmed to reflect which
available time zone you?re in (Pacific,Central, Eastern or Mountain)
and operates manually if traveling outside of the continental U.S. "

I also found a wris****ch
http://www.amazon.com/Casio-WV58A-1A...=clocks+atomic
under 30 dollars

I don't know if they have more than one cesium clock at the colarado
station. It used to be, the standard was averaged from banks of cesium beam
units near DC.separated from each other, along with one or more hydrogen
masers. The Current beacons may be synced by satellites.

Greg

I was reading they started using a new protocol modulation for newer
receivers. Some really old receivers may stop working. This is lower
frequency band, really low, but not as old as old stations that used to
transmit signals to subs. That was audio frequency. I have not listened o
shortwave wwvb in a long time. The time code could be read by the changing
of tones, really a low speed, but took less than a minute, then a 1 minute
sync signal.

Greg

Good to know. I seem unable to remember what the instructions say
about how it works. Right now it shows an image of an antenna, with
no radio waves. When it's getting the time it has waves and they
blink, it says, but I can't remember whether it blinked for hours and
hours or maybe it was just that the radio waves, the semi-circular
lines, were there for hours. Anyhow, I geuss mine is still working
on the new frequency, since it moved an hour Saturday night.

"David Kaye" wrote:
"Mark Lloyd" wrote

I see ads for clocks that claim to set themselves. They don't really, but
will adapt to DST (change hour twice a year). Of course, they won't do
anything about clock drift, so you still need to check occaisionally.

Sure they set themselves. They listen to WWVB, the longwave radio station
of the NIST. They usually listen between 3 and 5am when interference on the
LW band is low. Here's more info on WWVB and those self-setting clocks:

WWVB Info: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/wwvb.cfm

I don't know about that time slot, but mine seem to work when the signal
comes in, usually 2-4 hours after sunset.

Greg

On 11/05/2012 05:34 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
micky wrote:


Living in Indiana where is has only be the last few years where we
started with Daylight time, for most computers the DST changeover is
automatic. Remember when we started using DST one of the OS updates said
that one the included changes was Indiana now observing DST. I was so
proud (grin)

I'm outraged. I've proudly told people how my former state ignores
DST. Now I'll look like a fool to them.

If it is any solace, we are now arguing about whether to switch from
Eastern to Central.


Just get rid of Damn Stupid Time. It's nothing more than a mind game
that adds to the confusion.

--
50 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:00:00 AM).

"The light of faith makes us see what we believe." -- St. Thomas Aquinas

On 11/04/2012 09:14 PM, micky wrote:

[snip]

There are so-called "atomic clocks" that do set themselves using a
signal from a satellite.

Yes, there are. Also, there's internet-connected devices and cell phones.

I was referring to the fake ones that claim to set themselves, but lack
any way to do so (like radio or internet connection).

[snip]

--
50 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:00:00 AM).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"The truth cannot be asserted without denouncing the falsehood." [Leslie
Stephen]

On 11/04/2012 09:36 PM, gregz wrote:
micky wrote:

[snip]

I don't know of any clocks except gps and such that use a satellite. Ground
beacons are sent from Colorado from NIST. Once, they used to broadcast from
near DC area. You usually can't pick up the signals during the day.

I've had a couple of those clocks. They would only set themselves at night.


[snip]

Greg



--
50 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:00:00 AM).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"The truth cannot be asserted without denouncing the falsehood." [Leslie
Stephen]

On 11/05/2012 01:12 AM, David Kaye wrote:
"Mark Lloyd" wrote

I see ads for clocks that claim to set themselves. They don't really, but
will adapt to DST (change hour twice a year). Of course, they won't do
anything about clock drift, so you still need to check occaisionally.

Sure they set themselves. They listen to WWVB, the longwave radio station
of the NIST. They usually listen between 3 and 5am when interference on the
LW band is low. Here's more info on WWVB and those self-setting clocks:

WWVB Info: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/wwvb.cfm


Not the ones I wrote about. These have NO radio.

--
50 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:00:00 AM).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"The truth cannot be asserted without denouncing the falsehood." [Leslie
Stephen]

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 13:59:24 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 11/04/2012 09:36 PM, gregz wrote:
micky wrote:

[snip]

I don't know of any clocks except gps and such that use a satellite. Ground
beacons are sent from Colorado from NIST. Once, they used to broadcast from
near DC area. You usually can't pick up the signals during the day.

I've had a couple of those clocks. They would only set themselves at night.

That's not enough?


[snip]

Greg

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 13:57:21 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 11/04/2012 09:14 PM, micky wrote:

[snip]

There are so-called "atomic clocks" that do set themselves using a
signal from a satellite.

Yes, there are. Also, there's internet-connected devices and cell phones.

I was referring to the fake ones that claim to set themselves, but lack
any way to do so (like radio or internet connection).

I don't think I've seen them, but I woulnd't be surprised if they
lied.