Suppose a homeowner removed his old windows, in a pre 1978 built home, cleaned up the mess in preparation for the instillation of new replacement windows by a non-lead certified handyman. Has the handyman violated the EPA's lead Renovation, Repair and Painting Rule?

Anyone here think the EPA's lead Renovation, Repair and Painting Rule went overboard?

Thank you for your thoughts!

On 10/20/2012 11:07 AM, wrote:
Suppose a homeowner removed his old windows, in a pre 1978 built
home, cleaned up the mess in preparation for the instillation of new
replacement windows by a non-lead certified handyman. Has the
handymanviolated the EPA's lead Renovation, Repair and Painting Rule?

Probably, but don't know for certain.

Anyone here think the EPA's lead Renovation, Repair and Painting Rule went overboard?

Indeed they do...

So are the asbestos rules as are many others.

--

dpb wrote:

Suppose a homeowner removed his old windows, in a pre 1978 built
home, cleaned up the mess in preparation for the instillation of
new replacement windows by a non-lead certified handyman. Has the
handymanviolated the EPA's lead Renovation, Repair and Painting
Rule?

Probably, but don't know for certain.

I've seen those rules in action on This Old House.

We don't have crazy stupid rules / laws / regulations like that up here
in Canada.

But that said, your rules don't apply if the home owner does the demo
work himself.

The bit about using acres of plastic sheeting and miles of duct tape to
package all the demo'd **** applies only to contractors.

Back 10 years ago when you had the anthrax being mailed around the
country and the threat of biochemical domestic terror, your dept of
fatherland security and home preparedness wanted everyone to stock
enough plastic sheeting and duct tape to be able to wrap your homes into
a secure bubble. So you have this huge over-stock of plastic sheeting
that you need to get rid of, hence these EPA rules about lead paint and
home improvement.

Suppose a homeowner removed his old windows, in a pre 1978 built home,
cleaned up the mess in preparation for the instillation of new replacement
windows by a non-lead certified handyman. Has the handyman violated the
EPA's lead Renovation, Repair and Painting Rule?

Anyone here think the EPA's lead Renovation, Repair and Painting Rule went
overboard?


*The rules don't apply to homeowners working on their own house:
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/do-it-yourselfers.html You should still take
precautions to prevent exposure to yourself and others.

Next time that you have a physical, ask the doctor for a blood lead level
test.

John G wrote,

"*The rules don't apply to homeowners working on their own house:
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/do-it-yourselfers.html You should still take
precautions to prevent exposure to yourself and others."

Right, in this case I'm the handyman and I don't want the violate the letter of the law but don't mind violating the spirit of the law. If I install a window in a clean opening it seems that I am not disturbing any lead.

John G wrote,

"*The rules don't apply to homeowners working on their own house:
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/do-it-yourselfers.html You should still take
precautions to prevent exposure to yourself and others. "

Right, I'm the handyman and don't want to violate the letter of the law. If I install a replacement window in a clean opening will the EPA be on my ass?

Thank you for all the replies!

Home Guy wrote:

Back 10 years ago when you had the anthrax being mailed around the
country and the threat of biochemical domestic terror, your dept of
fatherland security and home preparedness wanted everyone to stock
enough plastic sheeting and duct tape to be able to wrap your homes into
a secure bubble. So you have this huge over-stock of plastic sheeting
that you need to get rid of, hence these EPA rules about lead paint and
home improvement.

Any homeowner who doesn't stock plastic sheeting and duct tape anyway is
an idiot. Broken window, roof leak, etc. all frequently call for that as
an immediate patch while you chase after proper repair supplies.

John G wrote,

"*The rules don't apply to homeowners working on their own house:
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/do-it-yourselfers.html You should still take
precautions to prevent exposure to yourself and others."

Right, in this case I'm the handyman and I don't want the violate the
letter of the law but don't mind violating the spirit of the law. If I
install a window in a clean opening it seems that I am not disturbing any
lead.


*I think your biggest problem may be someone from the neighborhood
complaining to the building department or maybe the EPA or OSHA. When I
took my class to get the license the instructor kept bringing up windows and
children. The paint on windows gets chalky from the sun. Kids eat paint
chips. Keep a low profile, keep the job site neat and clean, give some
appearance of following the rules, and protect yourself from lead exposure.
Don't just use a dust mask, use a cartridge respirator. You also don't want
dust particles floating around inside of the house. Go around with a damp
mop everyday. Cover furniture, isolate pets, and wipe down the walls
occasionally.

Before you start you can get a simple test kit at Home Depot and do a few
tests. You may not even have a lead issue.

On 10/20/2012 1:14 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Home Guy wrote:

Back 10 years ago when you had the anthrax being mailed around the
country and the threat of biochemical domestic terror, your dept of
fatherland security and home preparedness wanted everyone to stock
enough plastic sheeting and duct tape to be able to wrap your homes into
a secure bubble. So you have this huge over-stock of plastic sheeting
that you need to get rid of, hence these EPA rules about lead paint and
home improvement.

Any homeowner who doesn't stock plastic sheeting and duct tape anyway is
an idiot. Broken window, roof leak, etc. all frequently call for that as
an immediate patch while you chase after proper repair supplies.


Didn't some government wonk say that everyone should go out and stock up
on plastic sheeting and duct tape after the 9-11 attack in order to
protect themselves from terrorist attacks where poison gas or dirty
bombs were used? O_o

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 10/20/2012 1:14 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Home Guy wrote:

Back 10 years ago when you had the anthrax being mailed around the
country and the threat of biochemical domestic terror, your dept of
fatherland security and home preparedness wanted everyone to stock
enough plastic sheeting and duct tape to be able to wrap your homes into
a secure bubble. So you have this huge over-stock of plastic sheeting
that you need to get rid of, hence these EPA rules about lead paint and
home improvement.

Any homeowner who doesn't stock plastic sheeting and duct tape anyway is
an idiot. Broken window, roof leak, etc. all frequently call for that as
an immediate patch while you chase after proper repair supplies.


Didn't some government wonk say that everyone should go out and stock up
on plastic sheeting and duct tape after the 9-11 attack in order to
protect themselves from terrorist attacks where poison gas or dirty
bombs were used? O_o

TDD

After the anthrax attacks it was recommended that you have enough on
hand to make a safe room if needed. This is pretty much a copy of
recommendations in Israel I believe. But my point was that every
homeowner should have those supplies anyway for much more mundane
purposes.

“The rules don't apply to homeowners working on their own house:”

A nearby neighbor or a future tenant can still sue you
for exposing him or her to lead etc.
and probably win enough money
to go on a first class vacation.

On 10/20/2012 4:16 PM, Pete C. wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 10/20/2012 1:14 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Home Guy wrote:

Back 10 years ago when you had the anthrax being mailed around the
country and the threat of biochemical domestic terror, your dept of
fatherland security and home preparedness wanted everyone to stock
enough plastic sheeting and duct tape to be able to wrap your homes into
a secure bubble. So you have this huge over-stock of plastic sheeting
that you need to get rid of, hence these EPA rules about lead paint and
home improvement.

Any homeowner who doesn't stock plastic sheeting and duct tape anyway is
an idiot. Broken window, roof leak, etc. all frequently call for that as
an immediate patch while you chase after proper repair supplies.


Didn't some government wonk say that everyone should go out and stock up
on plastic sheeting and duct tape after the 9-11 attack in order to
protect themselves from terrorist attacks where poison gas or dirty
bombs were used? O_o

TDD

After the anthrax attacks it was recommended that you have enough on
hand to make a safe room if needed. This is pretty much a copy of
recommendations in Israel I believe. But my point was that every
homeowner should have those supplies anyway for much more mundane
purposes.


Oh yea! Now I remember! It must be the anthrax that damaged my brain? ^_^

TDD

I remember that. We're doing what the government says.

Let me think, that was right after the Reischtag fire?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...

Didn't some government wonk say that everyone should go out and stock up
on plastic sheeting and duct tape after the 9-11 attack in order to
protect themselves from terrorist attacks where poison gas or dirty
bombs were used? O_o

TDD

Another thing that doesn't seem to be mentioned often enough is that it's children under 6 years old that are most at risk from inhaling lead dust.

That's because it's when kids are young that their bodies are growing fastest and more of what they ingest goes into building those growing bodies rather than pooped out their butt holes. So, the risk to adults from inhaling lead dust is much lower simply because we're not growing any more and so we don't incorporate the lead dust we breathe in into our bodies. We poop it out our butt holes.

Also, lead based paint pigments were only banned in ARCHITECTURAL paints in 1978. You can still buy lead based pigments like lead carbonate and lead chromate at any artist supply store. Just ask for Lead White, Flake White or Chrome Yellow.

dpb wrote the following on 10/20/2012 12:27 PM (ET):
On 10/20/2012 11:07 AM, wrote:
Suppose a homeowner removed his old windows, in a pre 1978 built
home, cleaned up the mess in preparation for the instillation of new
replacement windows by a non-lead certified handyman. Has the
handymanviolated the EPA's lead Renovation, Repair and Painting Rule?

Probably, but don't know for certain.

Anyone here think the EPA's lead Renovation, Repair and Painting Rule
went overboard?

Indeed they do...

So are the asbestos rules as are many others.

There are only two rules that homeowners should abide by when removing
material containing lead.
1. Don't make dust.
2. Don't eat the material.




--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

wrote in news:c2226bc6-1b17-4653-a1c0-ffc84d4b8452
@googlegroups.com:

“The rules don't apply to homeowners working on their own house:”

A nearby neighbor or a future tenant can still sue you
for exposing him or her to lead etc.
and probably win enough money
to go on a first class vacation.

Shame what happened to nearby neighbor's house while they were on first
class vacation.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 08:50:49 -0400, willshak wrote:

dpb wrote the following on 10/20/2012 12:27 PM (ET):
On 10/20/2012 11:07 AM, wrote:
Suppose a homeowner removed his old windows, in a pre 1978 built
home, cleaned up the mess in preparation for the instillation of new
replacement windows by a non-lead certified handyman. Has the
handymanviolated the EPA's lead Renovation, Repair and Painting Rule?

Probably, but don't know for certain.

Anyone here think the EPA's lead Renovation, Repair and Painting Rule
went overboard?

Indeed they do...

So are the asbestos rules as are many others.

There are only two rules that homeowners should abide by when removing
material containing lead.
1. Don't make dust.
2. Don't eat the material.

Same rules apply to asbestos. I'd add, "don't say anything to anyone".

wrote:
John G wrote,

"*The rules don't apply to homeowners working on their own house:
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/do-it-yourselfers.html You should still
take
precautions to prevent exposure to yourself and others. "

Right, I'm the handyman and don't want to violate the letter of the
law. If I install a replacement window in a clean opening will the
EPA be on my ass?

Thank you for all the replies!

I think the answer is that as long as YOU are not disturbing any lead-based
paint, or demo-ing anything with lead-based paint in it, the new federal
rules regarding lead-based paint do not apply.

You are working for compensation, so any work that you do for compensation
would come under those rules, but ONLY if you are disturbing lead-based
painted surfaces etc.

The homeowner, is his own home (that is not rented out to others), can do
whatever he wants to do. So, if he wants to do the demo (and he should
also, but is not required to, use the same safety precautions and clean up
etc), he can. All the work you will be doing does not involve any
lead-based painted surfaces or demo, so you are okay.

wrote in message
...
Suppose a homeowner removed his old windows, in a pre 1978 built home,
cleaned up the mess in preparation for the instillation of new replacement
windows by a non-lead certified handyman. Has the handyman violated the
EPA's lead Renovation, Repair and Painting Rule?

Anyone here think the EPA's lead Renovation, Repair and Painting Rule went
overboard?

Thank you for your thoughts!


Yes they have gone way overboard on a great many things...Just have your
handyman do it and if anyone comes around just say he is your cousin who
lives there and is helping out for free and tell the handyman to say the
same thing...Many get around this nonsense here in maine that way..