I had a service guy tell me that sometimes electr. boards fail inside
the dryer due to electrical spikes. I wondered if this was BS
because this is a 220 appliance and I didn't think they are as
sensitive to such things. If it is true, can you buy a surge
protector just for the clothes dryer? Thoughts on this...

In article ,
Doug wrote:

I had a service guy tell me that sometimes electr. boards fail inside
the dryer due to electrical spikes. I wondered if this was BS
because this is a 220 appliance and I didn't think they are as
sensitive to such things. If it is true, can you buy a surge
protector just for the clothes dryer? Thoughts on this...

Did the board in your dryer fail, or is this a hypothetical question? If
it did fail, I'd be more suspect of lead-free soldering than a voltage
spike. Circuit boards are not directly line-powered. I think the dangers
of spikes, in general, have been overstated by 3-4 orders of magnitude.
But I don't think a 220 volt unit is any less vulnerable than a 120 volt
unit.

"Doug" wrote in message
...
I had a service guy tell me that sometimes electr. boards fail inside
the dryer due to electrical spikes. I wondered if this was BS
because this is a 220 appliance and I didn't think they are as
sensitive to such things. If it is true, can you buy a surge
protector just for the clothes dryer? Thoughts on this...

Spikes come in on the power lines and don't care about the voltage, so it's
certainly possible that one can damage a 220 volt appliance just like a 120
volt model. Yes, you can buy 220 volt surge protectors -- do a Google
search. Another choice is to wire a surge protector in at the main breaker
and protect the whole house.

Tomsic

I had a service guy tell me that sometimes electr. boards fail inside
the dryer due to electrical spikes. I wondered if this was BS
because this is a 220 appliance and I didn't think they are as
sensitive to such things. If it is true, can you buy a surge
protector just for the clothes dryer? Thoughts on this...


* I believe this to be true. It seems as though microprocessor controlled
appliances fail earlier than their mechanically controlled predecessors.

Steps you can take to help reduce the risk of this is making sure that your
grounding electrode system is in good condition. Check your ground clamps
at the water pipe and ground rods (If visible) for corrosion and tightness.
Here's a photo example from my site of a clean connection:
http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...ipeGroundClamp

Make sure your water pipes are bonded to each other:
http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...ho****erHeater

Have a bonding jumper across the water meter:
http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...eterWithJumper

You should also install a surge suppressor in the main electrical panel.

The grounding and bonding will help protect against lightning strikes and
the surge suppressor will help protect against spikes as a result of other
equipment, particularly those that are motor driven.

On Oct 5, 8:53*am, "John Grabowski" wrote:
I had a service guy tell me that sometimes electr. boards fail inside
the dryer due to electrical spikes. * I wondered if this was BS
because this is a 220 appliance and I didn't think they are as
sensitive to such things. *If it is true, can you buy a surge
protector just for the clothes dryer? * Thoughts on this...

* I believe this to be true. *It seems as though microprocessor controlled
appliances fail earlier than their mechanically controlled predecessors.

Steps you can take to help reduce the risk of this is making sure that your
grounding electrode system is in good condition. *Check your ground clamps
at the water pipe and ground rods (If visible) for corrosion and tightness.
Here's a photo example from my site of a clean connection:http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...TVGround.html#...

Make sure your water pipes are bonded to each other:http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...TVGround.html#...

Have a bonding jumper across the water meter:http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...TVGround.html#...

You should also install a surge suppressor in the main electrical panel.


That's the best and most cost effective solution.
And of course voltage spikes can damage a 240V
dryer with electronics just like a 120V microwave.
Lightning hitting the utilities could sends a 3000V
spike down the lines. 3000V going into something
designed for 240V is just about as bad as it going
into a 120V appliance.

On 10/5/2012 7:02 AM, wrote:
On Oct 5, 8:53 am, "John wrote:
I had a service guy tell me that sometimes electr. boards fail inside
the dryer due to electrical spikes. I wondered if this was BS
because this is a 220 appliance and I didn't think they are as
sensitive to such things. If it is true, can you buy a surge
protector just for the clothes dryer? Thoughts on this...

* I believe this to be true. It seems as though microprocessor controlled
appliances fail earlier than their mechanically controlled predecessors.

Steps you can take to help reduce the risk of this is making sure that your
grounding electrode system is in good condition. Check your ground clamps
at the water pipe and ground rods (If visible) for corrosion and tightness.
Here's a photo example from my site of a clean connection:http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...TVGround.html#...

Make sure your water pipes are bonded to each other:http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...TVGround.html#...

Have a bonding jumper across the water meter:http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...TVGround.html#...

You should also install a surge suppressor in the main electrical panel.


That's the best and most cost effective solution.
And of course voltage spikes can damage a 240V
dryer with electronics just like a 120V microwave.
Lightning hitting the utilities could sends a 3000V
spike down the lines. 3000V going into something
designed for 240V is just about as bad as it going
into a 120V appliance.

I agree a service panel protector is a real good idea.

If you have a strong surge from lightning on the power service it likely
lifts both hot wires above ground. Since the neutral is bonded to ground
and the earthing system at the service I would guess that surges
line-to-line are smaller than line-to-neutral or ground, but they easily
could damage 240V equipment.

If you have no service panel protector and you have a strong surge, at
about 6,000V there is arc-over from the service panel busbars to the
enclosure. After the arc is established the voltage is hundreds of
volts. Since the enclosure is connected the the earthing system that
dumps most of the surge energy to earth. Surge protection at the
equipment is likely to have more problem with a 3000V surge than one
that is much stronger.

On Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:11:25 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 05 Oct 2012 09:04:29 -0600, bud--
wrote:

If you have a strong surge from lightning on the power service it likely
lifts both hot wires above ground. Since the neutral is bonded to ground
and the earthing system at the service I would guess that surges
line-to-line are smaller than line-to-neutral or ground, but they easily
could damage 240V equipment.

Any decent protector will shunt spikes line to neutral and line to
line. (3 or more MOVs)
In the dryer, they usually connect the motor and the controller board
line to neutral.
I bet this happened when the dryer was off and the only thing
connected was the circuit board.


Repair guy said that most newer dryers were hot wired to timer not
control knob like this older one was. He did say that when it was
off, the power was still going to the control knob so if I understand
you correctly, you sound correct.

John Grabowski wrote:
I had a service guy tell me that sometimes electr. boards fail inside
the dryer due to electrical spikes. I wondered if this was BS
because this is a 220 appliance and I didn't think they are as
sensitive to such things. If it is true, can you buy a surge
protector just for the clothes dryer? Thoughts on this...


* I believe this to be true. It seems as though microprocessor
controlled appliances fail earlier than their mechanically controlled
predecessors.
Steps you can take to help reduce the risk of this is making sure
that your grounding electrode system is in good condition. Check
your ground clamps at the water pipe and ground rods (If visible) for
corrosion and tightness. Here's a photo example from my site of a
clean connection:
http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...ipeGroundClamp

Make sure your water pipes are bonded to each other:
http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...ho****erHeater

Have a bonding jumper across the water meter:
http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...eterWithJumper

You should also install a surge suppressor in the main electrical
panel.
The grounding and bonding will help protect against lightning strikes
and the surge suppressor will help protect against spikes as a result
of other equipment, particularly those that are motor driven.

Diligent bonding and connections to water pipes is good, but it's not a
substitute for a proper ground, e.g., one or more copper rods driven six
feet or more into the earth. A water-pipe bond is just to prevent the piping
systems in the house from remaining live with voltage if they come in
contact with a live wire.

I had a service guy tell me that sometimes electr. boards fail inside
the dryer due to electrical spikes. I wondered if this was BS
because this is a 220 appliance and I didn't think they are as
sensitive to such things. If it is true, can you buy a surge
protector just for the clothes dryer? Thoughts on this...


* I believe this to be true. It seems as though microprocessor
controlled appliances fail earlier than their mechanically controlled
predecessors.
Steps you can take to help reduce the risk of this is making sure
that your grounding electrode system is in good condition. Check
your ground clamps at the water pipe and ground rods (If visible) for
corrosion and tightness. Here's a photo example from my site of a
clean connection:
http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...ipeGroundClamp

Make sure your water pipes are bonded to each other:
http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...ho****erHeater

Have a bonding jumper across the water meter:
http://www.mrelectrician.tv/question...eterWithJumper

You should also install a surge suppressor in the main electrical
panel.
The grounding and bonding will help protect against lightning strikes
and the surge suppressor will help protect against spikes as a result
of other equipment, particularly those that are motor driven.

Diligent bonding and connections to water pipes is good, but it's not a
substitute for a proper ground, e.g., one or more copper rods driven six
feet or more into the earth. A water-pipe bond is just to prevent the
piping systems in the house from remaining live with voltage if they come
in contact with a live wire.


*I took for granted that the OP had a copper pipe water service from the
street. You are correct that if he didn't, two eight foot ground rods would
provide the necessary lightning protection.

John G

John Grabowski wrote:

Diligent bonding and connections to water pipes is good, but it's
not a substitute for a proper ground, e.g., one or more copper rods
driven six feet or more into the earth. A water-pipe bond is just to
prevent the piping systems in the house from remaining live with
voltage if they come in contact with a live wire.


*I took for granted that the OP had a copper pipe water service from
the street. You are correct that if he didn't, two eight foot ground
rods would provide the necessary lightning protection.


I suggest that no amount of copper pipe is a proper substitute for ground
rods.

What's the reference to lightening protection about?

On Oct 5, 4:00*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
John Grabowski wrote:

Diligent bonding and connections to water pipes is good, but it's
not a substitute for a proper ground, e.g., one or more copper rods
driven six feet or more into the earth. A water-pipe bond is just to
prevent the piping systems in the house from remaining live with
voltage if they come in contact with a live wire.

*I took for granted that the OP had a copper pipe water service from
the street. *You are correct that if he didn't, two eight foot ground
rods would provide the necessary lightning protection.

I suggest that no amount of copper pipe is a proper substitute for ground
rods.

What's the reference to lightening protection about?

Lightening is what Michael Jackson did to his skin. You mean
lightning I think!!!

Diligent bonding and connections to water pipes is good, but it's
not a substitute for a proper ground, e.g., one or more copper rods
driven six feet or more into the earth. A water-pipe bond is just to
prevent the piping systems in the house from remaining live with
voltage if they come in contact with a live wire.


*I took for granted that the OP had a copper pipe water service from
the street. You are correct that if he didn't, two eight foot ground
rods would provide the necessary lightning protection.


I suggest that no amount of copper pipe is a proper substitute for ground
rods.


*So in your mind 16' of copper plated iron rod is a better ground than the
copper pipe that runs from a house out to the street and is connected to a
giant web of piping.

What's the reference to lightening protection about?

*The primary purpose of a grounding electrode (Water pipe, ground rod,
ground ring, ufer ground, copper plate, etc.) is for voltage stabilization
and lightning protection.

Doug wrote:
I had a service guy tell me that sometimes electr. boards fail inside
the dryer due to electrical spikes. I wondered if this was BS
because this is a 220 appliance and I didn't think they are as
sensitive to such things. If it is true, can you buy a surge
protector just for the clothes dryer? Thoughts on this...

Hi,
Sorry to say that your idea is baseless and funny. Board has protection
circuit built-in but when powerful surge(spike) comes down, anythng can
get damaged no matter what protection you have. I often see board
failures caused by heat due to under-rated cheap component or cold
solder joint(s). Repairing is not easy because they use ASIC in
many cases which is difficult to obtain.

Doug wrote:

I had a service guy tell me that sometimes electr. boards fail
inside the dryer due to electrical spikes.

True.

If it is true, can you buy a surge protector just for the clothes
dryer? Thoughts on this...

A surge protector for a high-current appliance (like an electric clothes
dryer) is not something that I think would be cost effective as it would
be for something like a TV, stereo or computer.

A better solution would be to trip the breaker supplying power to your
dryer (or unplug the dryer if conveinent) when you're not using it - or
at least when you know a thunderstorm is approaching.

I live in a some-what lightning-prone area, and I unplug many electronic
devices in my home (and trip a few breakers) when I know a thunderstorm
is coming.

On Oct 5, 9:35*am, Home Guy wrote:
Doug wrote:
I had a service guy tell me that sometimes electr. boards fail
inside the dryer due to electrical spikes.

True.

If it is true, can you buy a surge protector just for the clothes
dryer? * Thoughts on this...

A surge protector for a high-current appliance (like an electric clothes
dryer) is not something that I think would be cost effective as it would
be for something like a TV, stereo or computer.

Of course not, because as usual, you're clueless. It has
nothing to do with the current the device draws. It has
everything to do with high-current appliances like dryers
and ovens today having ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS
in them. But it's OK. I won't think all Canadians are
stooopid just because you are.





A better solution would be to trip the breaker supplying power to your
dryer (or unplug the dryer if conveinent) when you're not using it - or
at least when you know a thunderstorm is approaching.

How about you're not home when the thunderstorm is
approaching? Or sleeping? Or it's a surge from something
other than a thunderstorm?





I live in a some-what lightning-prone area, and I unplug many electronic
devices in my home (and trip a few breakers) when I know a thunderstorm
is coming.

Try unplugging your computer and leaving it unplugged.

" wrote:

A surge protector for a high-current appliance (like an electric
clothes dryer) is not something that I think would be cost
effective as it would be for something like a TV, stereo or
computer.

Of course not, because as usual, you're clueless. It has
nothing to do with the current the device draws.

How much is a surge protector for an appliance that uses 40 amps @ 220
volts vs a surge protector for an appliance that uses 5 amps @ 120
volts?

A better solution would be to trip the breaker supplying power
to your dryer (or unplug the dryer if conveinent) when you're
not using it - or at least when you know a thunderstorm is
approaching.

How about you're not home when the thunderstorm is
approaching? Or sleeping?

Then you'll pay through the nose for the repair of your appliance when
it gets zapped by lightning because you were too ****ing lazy or
clueless to know that by applying the effort of a few micro-calories you
could have prevented the dammage in the first place.

Or it's a surge from something other than a
thunderstorm?

Maybe the power system in your area is as stable as in some third-world
countries, but where I live it's very rare that a system-fault will
cause a surge bad enough to dammage appliances.

Lightning by far causes the most electrical dammage to consumer
products.

On Oct 5, 7:04*am, Home Guy wrote:
...snip....
Maybe the power system in your area is as stable as in some third-world
countries, but where I live it's very rare that a system-fault will
cause a surge bad enough to dammage appliances.

Lightning by far causes the most electrical dammage to consumer
products.

In our rural area, a lightning storm maybe up to two miles away, surge/
sag the AC mains so much that it affects the telephone line too. Our
'digital' phones think there's an incoming call and you get a
standard, single ring.

On 10/5/2012 10:51 AM, Robert Macy wrote:
On Oct 5, 7:04 am, Home Guy wrote:
...snip....
Maybe the power system in your area is as stable as in some third-world
countries, but where I live it's very rare that a system-fault will
cause a surge bad enough to dammage appliances.

Lightning by far causes the most electrical dammage to consumer
products.

In our rural area, a lightning storm maybe up to two miles away, surge/
sag the AC mains so much that it affects the telephone line too. Our
'digital' phones think there's an incoming call and you get a
standard, single ring.


I've installed hard wired surge arresters on the AC units of customers
in rural areas to prevent blown capacitors and damage to circuit boards.
The move away from relay logic to solid state then microprocessor
controls has made the equipment much more vulnerable to power spikes and
surges. O_o

TDD

On Oct 5, 10:04*am, Home Guy wrote:
" wrote:
A surge protector for a high-current appliance (like an electric
clothes dryer) is not something that I think would be cost
effective as it would be for something like a TV, stereo or
computer.

Of course not, because as usual, you're clueless. *It has
nothing to do with the current the device draws.

How much is a surge protector for an appliance that uses 40 amps @ 220
volts vs a surge protector for an appliance that uses 5 amps @ 120
volts?

Exactly the same price because again, it's a whole
house surge protector that goes at the panel and
it protects both hots and the neutral. It deals with
surges right there, before they get to any appliance
whether 120V or 240V. They can be had for $100-150.

Never having installed or seen one, as usual, you're
clueless. Ever watch Holmes up there in Canada?
He installs them all the time on TV.





A better solution would be to trip the breaker supplying power
to your dryer (or unplug the dryer if conveinent) when you're
not using it - or at least when you know a thunderstorm is
approaching.

How about you're not home when the thunderstorm is
approaching? *Or sleeping?

Then you'll pay through the nose for the repair of your appliance when
it gets zapped by lightning because you were too ****ing lazy or
clueless to know that by applying the effort of a few micro-calories you
could have prevented the dammage in the first place.


The folks here can weigh in on how many of them go
down to the panel to open breakers on every appliance
with each thundestorm. Even walls switches can
have electronics in them today, be it for dimming,
X10, etc. Or CFL lights. With such a strategy, you
might as well just open the main breaker. And with
your approach, you have all the fun of resetting everything
with a clock in it. I don't know anyone that relies on such a
strategy.






Or it's a surge from something other than a
thunderstorm?

Maybe the power system in your area is as stable as in some third-world
countries, but where I live it's very rare that a system-fault will
cause a surge bad enough to dammage appliances.

It's rare here too. So are destructive surges from
lightning and house fires too. That doesn't mean that
it;s a bad idea to install a $125 whole house surge
protector or to buy a fire insurance policy.
The IEEE recommends whole house surge protectors.




Lightning by far causes the most electrical dammage to consumer
products.

Which is why that whole house surge protector is a
mighty fine idea.

Home Guy wrote:
" wrote:

A surge protector for a high-current appliance (like an electric
clothes dryer) is not something that I think would be cost
effective as it would be for something like a TV, stereo or
computer.

Of course not, because as usual, you're clueless. It has
nothing to do with the current the device draws.

How much is a surge protector for an appliance that uses 40 amps @ 220
volts vs a surge protector for an appliance that uses 5 amps @ 120
volts?

Um, they should be about the same price. The usual load on a surge protector
is irrelevant to its job of preventing surges.

For example, here are 31 220v surge protectors, all but 5 under $30.

Your average lightning bolt comes in at about 30,000 amps. That's for
negative lightning. Positive lightning is about one magnitude greater
(300,000 amps).

Older appliances tended to use slightly more costly analog controls,
however they tnded to last forever..

newer appliances use glitzy electronic board controls, that cost less
to build but fail easily, and can be a hassle to replace.....

I have a whirpool dishwasher that got 5 control boards in its first
year of life... the service tech who replaced them said it wasnt me it
was a poor design board......

its sad what has happened to manufacturing

On Oct 5, 6:35*am, Home Guy wrote:
Doug wrote:
I had a service guy tell me that sometimes electr. boards fail
inside the dryer due to electrical spikes.

True.

If it is true, can you buy a surge protector just for the clothes
dryer? * Thoughts on this...

A surge protector for a high-current appliance (like an electric clothes
dryer) is not something that I think would be cost effective as it would
be for something like a TV, stereo or computer.

A better solution would be to trip the breaker supplying power to your
dryer (or unplug the dryer if conveinent) when you're not using it - or
at least when you know a thunderstorm is approaching.

I live in a some-what lightning-prone area, and I unplug many electronic
devices in my home (and trip a few breakers) when I know a thunderstorm
is coming.

Depending on the year of your home construction, you may also wish to
consider disconnecting the phone lines to your computers.

Home Guy wrote:
Doug wrote:

I had a service guy tell me that sometimes electr. boards fail
inside the dryer due to electrical spikes.

True.

If it is true, can you buy a surge protector just for the clothes
dryer? Thoughts on this...

A surge protector for a high-current appliance (like an electric clothes
dryer) is not something that I think would be cost effective as it would
be for something like a TV, stereo or computer.

A better solution would be to trip the breaker supplying power to your
dryer (or unplug the dryer if conveinent) when you're not using it - or
at least when you know a thunderstorm is approaching.

I live in a some-what lightning-prone area, and I unplug many electronic
devices in my home (and trip a few breakers) when I know a thunderstorm
is coming.

I basically have a surge suppressor off my air conditioner breaker, which
is 20 amps X 2 . Putting it on the breaker depends on the breaker and code.
It protects the circuit, and affects all lines in the box, just as if it
had it's own dedicated breaker. Surge supressor was about $40.-$50.

Greg

wrote:
On Fri, 05 Oct 2012 09:37:40 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Doug wrote:

I had a service guy tell me that sometimes electr. boards fail
inside the dryer due to electrical spikes.

True.

If it is true, can you buy a surge protector just for the clothes
dryer? Thoughts on this...

A surge protector for a high-current appliance (like an electric clothes
dryer) is not something that I think would be cost effective as it would
be for something like a TV, stereo or computer.

A better solution would be to trip the breaker supplying power to your
dryer (or unplug the dryer if conveinent) when you're not using it - or
at least when you know a thunderstorm is approaching.

I live in a some-what lightning-prone area, and I unplug many electronic
devices in my home (and trip a few breakers) when I know a thunderstorm
is coming.

I live in the lightning capital of the world (Florida) and I never
unplug anything.
The answer is the panel protector John spoke of along with additional
protection for some selected equipment, typically things with more
than one input like TVs and computers.
You also want to be sure all of those other services (cable phone etc)
have surge protection and that it shares the same ground electrode
system as the service.
The better your grounding electrode is, the better all of this works.

In addition to whole house, and many suppressers around the house on
various lines, I have a suppressor plugged into the outlet at furnace, I
don't want the board in there to fry. It's a simple inline jack from the
shack.

Greg