On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:15:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, September 17, 2012 12:01:56 PM UTC-4, harry wrote:
On Sep 17, 2:43Â*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I've been going for years without carrying too much cash, mostly

relying on my debit card. $20 - $25 was enough for the occasional low

cost purchase or to order subs at work, things like that.



Now, with gas prices being where they are, I'm noticing more and more

stations offering three cents off for cash purchases. Now I find I

have to carry close to $100 if I want to fill up and still have my $20

- $25 pocket cash.



It's just PITA, that's all.



We have petrol/gas pumps in the UK with a slot to put your credit card

in.

Also the big stores are going self checkout with machines that accept

coins/ banknotes or credit/debit cards.

What does a credit card slot in a gas pump have to do with paying with cash in order to get the discount?

What does anything in your reply have to do with paying with cash in order to get the discount?
You expect it to have any relevence when it is posted by Harry?

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 16:20:41 -0400, Rodney King
wrote:

Ralph Mowery wrote:

I thought charging extra for credit was ILLEGAL.

I did not think it was illegal,

Correct - there is no "law" governing this.

but was a deal with the credit card companies.

Merchant agreement.

In other words, you could charge more or give a cash discount if
you wanted to, but if the credit card companies found out about
it,they would not let you take their credit cards any more.

Technically - not correct.

You *can't* add any additional charges (to the sticker price) if the
buyer pays with a credit card - but you CAN give a discount if they
buyer pays with cash.

Credit-card companies don't want retailers to penalize credit-card
users, so they write that into the merchant agreement.

But CC companies can't do anything about retailers giving a
discount-at-the-register for people who pay in cash.
They CAN raise an unholy stink about it, but they can't enforce it,
like they can for a "premium" on credit card sales.

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:33:16 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On Sep 17, 4:20Â*pm, Rodney King wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote:
I thought charging extra for credit was ILLEGAL.

I did not think it was illegal,

Correct - there is no "law" governing this.

but was a deal with the credit card companies.

Merchant agreement.

In other words, you could charge more or give a cash discount if
you wanted to, but if the credit card companies found out about
it,they would not let you take their credit cards any more.

Technically - not correct.

You *can't* add any additional charges (to the sticker price) if the
buyer pays with a credit card - but you CAN give a discount if they
buyer pays with cash.

Credit-card companies don't want retailers to penalize credit-card
users, so they write that into the merchant agreement.

But CC companies can't do anything about retailers giving a
discount-at-the-register for people who pay in cash.

the cost to take cash is likely more than the cc fee

securing handling counting taking to bank likely by armored car all
cost money
Correct. MANY businesses find the cost of cash transactions is
significantly higher than credit card charges when everything is taken
into account.

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 22:31:33 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

bob haller wrote:
On Sep 17, 4:20 pm, Rodney King wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote:
I thought charging extra for credit was ILLEGAL.

I did not think it was illegal,

Correct - there is no "law" governing this.

but was a deal with the credit card companies.

Merchant agreement.

In other words, you could charge more or give a cash discount if
you wanted to, but if the credit card companies found out about
it,they would not let you take their credit cards any more.

Technically - not correct.

You *can't* add any additional charges (to the sticker price) if the
buyer pays with a credit card - but you CAN give a discount if they
buyer pays with cash.

Credit-card companies don't want retailers to penalize credit-card
users, so they write that into the merchant agreement.

But CC companies can't do anything about retailers giving a
discount-at-the-register for people who pay in cash.

the cost to take cash is likely more than the cc fee

securing handling counting taking to bank likely by armored car all
cost money

Then why do they offer a discount for cash? Seems kind of silly to offer a
discount for the method that costs them the most. Wouldn't they offer the
discount on the cheapest method to entice customers to use it...or offer no
discount at all?
Because some people, and some businesses, just see the IMMEDIATE
cost and get their back up about paying to use the credit card - not
thinking about the time and money involved in handling the cash.

If a company does a lot of other cash business the incremental cost is
low - but switching from an all credit card model to an all cash
model does NOT make sense.

On 9/17/2012 6:52 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 22:31:33 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

bob haller wrote:
On Sep 17, 4:20 pm, Rodney King wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote:
I thought charging extra for credit was ILLEGAL.

I did not think it was illegal,

Correct - there is no "law" governing this.

but was a deal with the credit card companies.

Merchant agreement.

In other words, you could charge more or give a cash discount if
you wanted to, but if the credit card companies found out about
it,they would not let you take their credit cards any more.

Technically - not correct.

You *can't* add any additional charges (to the sticker price) if the
buyer pays with a credit card - but you CAN give a discount if they
buyer pays with cash.

Credit-card companies don't want retailers to penalize credit-card
users, so they write that into the merchant agreement.

But CC companies can't do anything about retailers giving a
discount-at-the-register for people who pay in cash.

the cost to take cash is likely more than the cc fee

securing handling counting taking to bank likely by armored car all
cost money

Then why do they offer a discount for cash? Seems kind of silly to offer a
discount for the method that costs them the most. Wouldn't they offer the
discount on the cheapest method to entice customers to use it...or offer no
discount at all?
Because some people, and some businesses, just see the IMMEDIATE
cost and get their back up about paying to use the credit card - not
thinking about the time and money involved in handling the cash.

Or they know their costs and know that the sale involving a tribute to
the banks/credit card companies will yield them less than the same sale
with a cash discount applied.


If a company does a lot of other cash business the incremental cost is
low - but switching from an all credit card model to an all cash
model does NOT make sense.

On 9/17/2012 6:40 PM, wrote:

You expect it to have any relevence when it is posted by Harry?


Harry/heybub/homes guys schizophrenic new name every hour all fit into
the irrelevance category.

On 9/17/2012 4:55 PM, gpsman wrote:
On Sep 17, 9:43 am, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Now, with gas prices being where they are, I'm noticing more and more
stations offering three cents off for cash purchases. Now I find I
have to carry close to $100 if I want to fill up and still have my $20
- $25 pocket cash.

It's just PITA, that's all.

I never cease to be amazed at what people will do to save 60 cents on
a tank of gas when they'll often pay $8g for water, $16+ for coffee
(guilty).

They sit and wait and block traffic to save 40 cents at a local Swifty
when the Marathon station a half mile away is usually 3-5 cents less
than that, and you can pull right up to an empty pump and pay no more
for credit.

I got $!/ea. off 17g last night via the Kroger fuel program, paid

You bought 17 grams of gas. How far were you able to go? What country
sells gas using metric mass units?

nothing for credit, pulled right up to a pump, got out onto clean
cement, cleaned the winders, lights and mirrors with the provided
solution and squeegee (in good condition) and ample supply of paper
towels, then took the legible receipt from the unit and did not have
to "SEE ATTENDANT" and wait behind 40 nitwits buying lottery tickets
or contemplating the pro/cons of a lighter in the shape of a skull.
-----

- gpsman

In article ,
SMS wrote:

Gasoline is a tough product for retailers because the retail price is a
fixed number of cents over wholesale, not a percentage. So a gallon of
gasoline that costs the station $1.90 and sells for $2.00 would have
credit card cost of about 4¢, while a gallon that costs the station
$3.90 and sells for $4 would have a credit card cost of about 8¢. So the
higher the price, the more of that 10¢/gallon mark-up is eaten up by the
credit card costs. That's why you're seeing the re-emergence of
different prices for cash or credit.

I don't believe this. I've seen gas prices in California vary by as much as
$1.50/gallon, and while the more expensive has been in out of the way places, I
doubt that the wholesale plus delivery costs vary that much

In fact when it comes to Arco, I see the price vary by as much as 5 cents/gallon
and these are all within a couple of miles of each other and in no particular
geographical pattern

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 22:33:21 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

" wrote:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:48:40 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I can state with full certainty that both BJ's and Home Depot take cash
at their self checkout lanes.

Usually. I don't often use cash at such places but I did at HD today. The
damned thing ate my Jackson and sat there thinking.

What do you mean usually? The machine at HD certainly took your money. ;-)

They're often broken. Wallyworld is really bad for broken self-serve lines.

In the case of gas stations the cash discount may be more about
getting you into the stations store where while your paying for gas
you buy other stuff........

profit on gas is low, a couple cents a gallon, 3 cents tops.

made up for profit on pop, candy, food etc etc.....

if you ppay by card at the pump your less likely to buy other stuff

wrote:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 22:31:33 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:



the cost to take cash is likely more than the cc fee

securing handling counting taking to bank likely by armored car all
cost money

Then why do they offer a discount for cash? Seems kind of silly to offer a
discount for the method that costs them the most. Wouldn't they offer the
discount on the cheapest method to entice customers to use it...or offer no
discount at all?
Because some people, and some businesses, just see the IMMEDIATE
cost and get their back up about paying to use the credit card - not
thinking about the time and money involved in handling the cash.

If a company does a lot of other cash business the incremental cost is
low - but switching from an all credit card model to an all cash
model does NOT make sense.

So hundreds (thousands?) of gas stations across the country all "have their
backs up" and are willing to lose money by giving cash discounts?

Are they all really that bad at running a business or are they all forced
to lose money because one or two have chosen to and the rest have to in
order to get the business?

DerbyDad03 wrote:

If a company does a lot of other cash business the incremental
cost is low - but switching from an all credit card model to
an all cash model does NOT make sense.

So hundreds (thousands?) of gas stations across the country all
"have their backs up" and are willing to lose money by giving
cash discounts?

Lots of owner-operated businesses (gas stations, corner stores, etc)
will show two prices for the stuff they sell - one for cash and one for
credit.

When it costs you 3 to 5 cents to process every $1 worth of credit-card
sales, you do come out ahead when you offer 2 or 3 cents per dollar
cheaper price for a cash sale.

That, and without a paper trail for a cash sale, you can cook the books
for income tax purposes.

Something you're not hearing much about in the MSM is that the
underground economy is huge and getting bigger. When the "official"
unemployment number goes from 8.3% to 8.1% because a few hundred
thousand people drop out of the job markets and the participation-rate
goes down - where do you think those people are going? They're going to
the underground economy.

The primary reason why the US gov't is taking internet monitoring and
data mining to a whole new expensive level is to look for tax cheats.

Let no dollar of income go untaxed.

You'll pay for your stupid "wars" - one way or another.

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 10:34:55 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:




BTW the debit cards are the worst thing to carry. Even worse than cash. If
you loose the debit card, someone can wipe out your account. With cash, all
you loose is the cash you have with you. Credit cards are protected to some
extent.


So are debit cards. My wife had hers stolen and there was about $1000
in charges. We had the money back in the account in a couple of days.

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:59:05 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote:

In the case of gas stations the cash discount may be more about
getting you into the stations store where while your paying for gas
you buy other stuff........

profit on gas is low, a couple cents a gallon, 3 cents tops.

made up for profit on pop, candy, food etc etc.....

if you ppay by card at the pump your less likely to buy other stuff

The gas station owner rarely owns the gas in the ground. He's told what to
charge and, yes, he does make all his money on the overpriced crap inside.

In article , George
wrote:


Or they know their costs and know that the sale involving a tribute to
the banks/credit card companies will yield them less than the same sale
with a cash discount applied.

Most of the money isn't made at the gas pumps anyway, it made at the
convenience shop. Get a certain number of people in because of the
"deal" on gas and they spend more inside. Especially since you HAVE to
come inside to pay.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On 9/17/2012 7:14 PM, Johnny Cash wrote:

That, and without a paper trail for a cash sale, you can cook the books
for income tax purposes.

There's too much of a paper trail with gasoline for that to work, but
for other businesses it's the big incentive to encourage cash over credit.

In article ,
SMS wrote:

I get 4% back on gas using my Costco Amex (no matter where I buy the gas
other than at places like Safeway or 7-11).

Are you positive about that? I threw away the offer I got from them,
because when I read the fine print, it said that you would only get that
rebate at "gas only" stations - places that had no mini-mart attached.
Which is to say, only the very highest-priced places. I'm not even sure
where I'd look these days to find a gas station that didn't have a
mini-mart.

In article ,
Dusenberg wrote:

I personally think it's dumb not to have ready accessible cash, in case
bank machines or computers go down. Purchases can still be made with cash.

I wonder how true that is these days. The stores rely on computers, too.
I think most stores wouldn't be able to sell you anything if the power
or the network went down. A sole proprietor could, by switching to the
cigar box cash register system, but how many of those are left?

Johnny Cash wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

If a company does a lot of other cash business the incremental
cost is low - but switching from an all credit card model to
an all cash model does NOT make sense.

So hundreds (thousands?) of gas stations across the country all
"have their backs up" and are willing to lose money by giving
cash discounts?

Lots of owner-operated businesses (gas stations, corner stores, etc)
will show two prices for the stuff they sell - one for cash and one for
credit.

When it costs you 3 to 5 cents to process every $1 worth of credit-card
sales, you do come out ahead when you offer 2 or 3 cents per dollar
cheaper price for a cash sale.

That, and without a paper trail for a cash sale, you can cook the books
for income tax purposes.

There's no paper trail, really? IRS and state revenuers have ways of
estimating sales based on information they receive from third parties
during an investigation, such as electricity usage. In the case of a
gas station, they'll check if the station owner's record of supplied
gasoline matches his supplier's records. It's easy to assess under-deposited
excise taxes, like state and federal motor fuel taxes and state sales tax.

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 23:29:59 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article , George
wrote:


Or they know their costs and know that the sale involving a tribute to
the banks/credit card companies will yield them less than the same sale
with a cash discount applied.

Most of the money isn't made at the gas pumps anyway, it made at the
convenience shop. Get a certain number of people in because of the
"deal" on gas and they spend more inside. Especially since you HAVE to
come inside to pay.


I never understood why a convenience store would want you to pay at
the pump. Once inside, you may grab a soda, coffee, etc. The place I
get most of my gas for the past 10 years I've never gone inside at
all. Never spent and extra dime.

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 21:25:15 -0700, sms88
wrote:

On 9/17/2012 7:14 PM, Johnny Cash wrote:

That, and without a paper trail for a cash sale, you can cook the books
for income tax purposes.

There's too much of a paper trail with gasoline for that to work, but
for other businesses it's the big incentive to encourage cash over credit.


But that cup of coffee you grab can be veeeeerrrry profitable.

Ralph Mowery wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
I've been going for years without carrying too much cash, mostly
relying on my debit card. $20 - $25 was enough for the occasional low
cost purchase or to order subs at work, things like that.

Now, with gas prices being where they are, I'm noticing more and more
stations offering three cents off for cash purchases. Now I find I
have to carry close to $100 if I want to fill up and still have my
$20 - $25 pocket cash.


I can still use my credit even at that reduction. I get 1 % back,so
at $ 3.50 a gallon (more now) I am still ahead of the 3 cents per gallon.
Sometimes it is 5% back for several months.
I never carry a credit card ballance at the interest they charge now.

BTW the debit cards are the worst thing to carry. Even worse than
cash. If you loose the debit card, someone can wipe out your
account. With cash, all you loose is the cash you have with you. Credit
cards are protected to some extent.

Hmm. My two debit cards have exactly the same protection as a credit card.

Your experience may vary.

wrote:
If you don't mind punching in your PIN at the pump, you can use your
DEBIT card and get the cash discount. Around here it's 10 cents a
gallon, cash or debit.

Use your debit card as credit, and they hit you up for the credit
price.

I thought charging extra for credit was ILLEGAL.

Not any more.

"The agreement, which provides for a temporary reduction in rates for
merchants and allows them to impose surcharges on customer purchases,
follows a seven-year legal battle with U.S. retailers that accused the two
largest payment networks of conspiring with banks to fix swipe fees, or
interchange."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-fee-suit.html

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 22:15:18 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
SMS wrote:

I get 4% back on gas using my Costco Amex (no matter where I buy the gas
other than at places like Safeway or 7-11).

Are you positive about that? I threw away the offer I got from them,
because when I read the fine print, it said that you would only get that
rebate at "gas only" stations - places that had no mini-mart attached.
Which is to say, only the very highest-priced places. I'm not even sure
where I'd look these days to find a gas station that didn't have a
mini-mart.

I'm not SMS and I don't have any AMEX cards--- but I've never seen a
restriction on any of my chase Visa's or the 2 Discover cards that
I've played the %-back game with for years and years. [not as good
as it was 5 years ago-- but still worth a couple hundred a year]

Jim

In article ,
Ed Pawlowski wrote:


I never understood why a convenience store would want you to pay at
the pump. Once inside, you may grab a soda, coffee, etc. The place I
get most of my gas for the past 10 years I've never gone inside at
all. Never spent and extra dime.

Especially since 99% of the stuff in the convenience store qualifies as
an impulse purchase. I buy something extra just about every time I go
to the gas station. Lottery tickets (g).
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Monday, September 17, 2012 12:38:17 PM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
If you don't mind punching in your PIN at the pump, you can use your DEBIT card and get the cash discount. Around here it's 10 cents a gallon, cash or debit.



Use your debit card as credit, and they hit you up for the credit price.



I thought charging extra for credit was ILLEGAL.

It used to be but they recently passed new regulations which allow that.

On 9/18/2012 5:56 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 23:29:59 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article , George
wrote:


Or they know their costs and know that the sale involving a tribute to
the banks/credit card companies will yield them less than the same sale
with a cash discount applied.

Most of the money isn't made at the gas pumps anyway, it made at the
convenience shop. Get a certain number of people in because of the
"deal" on gas and they spend more inside. Especially since you HAVE to
come inside to pay.


I never understood why a convenience store would want you to pay at
the pump. Once inside, you may grab a soda, coffee, etc. The place I
get most of my gas for the past 10 years I've never gone inside at
all. Never spent and extra dime.


Businesses know there is a normal distribution of customers and will
sell to all of them. Some folks just want gas and some will buy that $3
bottle of water. They already have the sunk cost of the
pumps/tanks/equipment plus other expenses. So your money is just as good
even if you only buy fuel.

In article ,
Kurt Ullman wrote:

I buy something extra just about every time I go
to the gas station. Lottery tickets (g).

I'm guilty of buying gas long before I need it, to justify that lottery
ticket.

On 9/18/2012 4:12 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Johnny Cash wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

If a company does a lot of other cash business the incremental
cost is low - but switching from an all credit card model to
an all cash model does NOT make sense.

So hundreds (thousands?) of gas stations across the country all
"have their backs up" and are willing to lose money by giving
cash discounts?

Lots of owner-operated businesses (gas stations, corner stores, etc)
will show two prices for the stuff they sell - one for cash and one for
credit.

When it costs you 3 to 5 cents to process every $1 worth of credit-card
sales, you do come out ahead when you offer 2 or 3 cents per dollar
cheaper price for a cash sale.

That, and without a paper trail for a cash sale, you can cook the books
for income tax purposes.

There's no paper trail, really? IRS and state revenuers have ways of
estimating sales based on information they receive from third parties
during an investigation, such as electricity usage. In the case of a
gas station, they'll check if the station owner's record of supplied
gasoline matches his supplier's records. It's easy to assess under-deposited
excise taxes, like state and federal motor fuel taxes and state sales tax.


Some folks are pretty naive. In my state the state revenue folks are the
most aggressive but all they need to do is say subpoena the supplier
records and estimate sales and if they can't get records for some reason
they will do stuff like watch the business operation and estimate sales.
Then they demand the money. If you were playing games you have no leg to
stand on.

Especially in the case of gas or other taxable liquid fuels you would
have to be a total moron to play games because all wholesale
transactions are completely documented.

On 9/18/2012 1:21 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Dusenberg wrote:

I personally think it's dumb not to have ready accessible cash, in case
bank machines or computers go down. Purchases can still be made with cash.

I wonder how true that is these days. The stores rely on computers, too.
I think most stores wouldn't be able to sell you anything if the power
or the network went down. A sole proprietor could, by switching to the
cigar box cash register system, but how many of those are left?


Storekeepers aren't clueless. A friends family owns a number of stores
whose brand you would immediately recognize. A few weeks back the main
organization did a software upgrade which broke all of the POS systems
in the stores.

I saw this in action. They had boxes of hand written receipts under the
counters ready to go. Anyone who had cash was able to buy stuff.

In article , George
wrote:

On 9/18/2012 1:21 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Dusenberg wrote:

I personally think it's dumb not to have ready accessible cash, in case
bank machines or computers go down. Purchases can still be made with cash.

I wonder how true that is these days. The stores rely on computers, too.
I think most stores wouldn't be able to sell you anything if the power
or the network went down. A sole proprietor could, by switching to the
cigar box cash register system, but how many of those are left?


Storekeepers aren't clueless. A friends family owns a number of stores
whose brand you would immediately recognize. A few weeks back the main
organization did a software upgrade which broke all of the POS systems
in the stores.

I saw this in action. They had boxes of hand written receipts under the
counters ready to go. Anyone who had cash was able to buy stuff.

Good to know. I think I'll ask my usual stores whether they're so
equipped.

On 9/17/2012 12:41 PM, gpsman wrote:
On Sep 17, 1:49 pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:38:17 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I thought charging extra for credit was ILLEGAL.

It was never "illegal". There was wording in the contract stating that the
merchant couldn't surcharge for plastic but they could give a discount for
paper. AIUI, the whole issue was tossed in the Visa/MC price-fixing suit
recently.

In 10 states it is prohibited by law for retailers to charge consumers
a fee for using a credit card (California, Colorado, Connecticut,
Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas).
http://usa.visa.com/personal/using_v....html#10states

But it is not prohibited to give a cash discount.

On 9/17/2012 10:15 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
SMS wrote:

I get 4% back on gas using my Costco Amex (no matter where I buy the gas
other than at places like Safeway or 7-11).

Are you positive about that? I threw away the offer I got from them,
because when I read the fine print, it said that you would only get that
rebate at "gas only" stations - places that had no mini-mart attached.
Which is to say, only the very highest-priced places. I'm not even sure
where I'd look these days to find a gas station that didn't have a
mini-mart.

In my part of California there aren't a lot of mini-mart gas stations.
It's mini-marts that sell gas, not gas stations with mini-marts that are
excluded. So a 7-11 is excluded because it's primarily a mini-mart,
while a gas station that has a little store, i.e. Rotten Robbie, is not
excluded.

Generally we buy gas at Costco when possible because it's almost always
the lowest priced, and at least in California the state has very high
standards for gasoline so there's no quality advantage in going to a
higher priced station.

You don't get the rebate at supermarkets with gas stations, like
Safeway. But one thing about Safeway is that regular gas stations in
close proximity to them compete on price, reluctantly,
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/08/07/pleasanton-based-safeway-ends-gas-discount-program/.

Even with the 3¢/gallon discount gone, Safeway still usually has very
low gas prices. They are trying to compete with Costco. Meanwhile,
Costco used to send someone by my relative's Arco station, every day, to
check his prices because they would match them. I think that now they go
onto http://gasbuddy.com and get his price (I just checked and sure
enough, the closest Costco is the exact same price). But Costco takes
credit (3-4% rebate) and debit (no cash), while most Arco stations are
cash only, or you pay a fee for using a debit card (some Arco stations
are now taking credit cards again, but most do not).

Arco dealers are "encouraged" to mark up their gasoline by a fixed, and
very small, amount, because the refinery wants to maximize volume even
at a slightly lower margin. We've lost all the Arco station in my own
town because their volumes were too low to survive on the tiny mark-up
that was "encouraged." We had four Arco stations in my 50,000 person
town, now we have zero. Two switched brands, one switched to a
repair-only shop, and one was torn down for a mini-shopping center.

A gas-only Arco station would have a hard time surviving. The real money
is in repairs and in drink & snack & cigarette sales.

On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 06:19:54 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote:

Ralph Mowery wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
I've been going for years without carrying too much cash, mostly
relying on my debit card. $20 - $25 was enough for the occasional low
cost purchase or to order subs at work, things like that.

Now, with gas prices being where they are, I'm noticing more and more
stations offering three cents off for cash purchases. Now I find I
have to carry close to $100 if I want to fill up and still have my
$20 - $25 pocket cash.


I can still use my credit even at that reduction. I get 1 % back,so
at $ 3.50 a gallon (more now) I am still ahead of the 3 cents per gallon.
Sometimes it is 5% back for several months.
I never carry a credit card ballance at the interest they charge now.

BTW the debit cards are the worst thing to carry. Even worse than
cash. If you loose the debit card, someone can wipe out your
account. With cash, all you loose is the cash you have with you. Credit
cards are protected to some extent.

Hmm. My two debit cards have exactly the same protection as a credit card.

The difference is in the avalanche of other problems that debit card fraud
can cause. If your accounts are zeroed out for a few days, all sorts of bad
things can happen. If your debt is bumped up for a few days, who cares?

FOr that reason alone, I never use a debit card on the Internet or where the
physical plastic leaves my hand (restaurant, etc.).

Your experience may vary.

On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 05:56:13 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 23:29:59 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article , George
wrote:


Or they know their costs and know that the sale involving a tribute to
the banks/credit card companies will yield them less than the same sale
with a cash discount applied.

Most of the money isn't made at the gas pumps anyway, it made at the
convenience shop. Get a certain number of people in because of the
"deal" on gas and they spend more inside. Especially since you HAVE to
come inside to pay.


I never understood why a convenience store would want you to pay at
the pump. Once inside, you may grab a soda, coffee, etc. The place I
get most of my gas for the past 10 years I've never gone inside at
all. Never spent and extra dime.

When it was the norm to pay after filling the tank, sure, get 'em in the
store. However, drive-offs killed that. I don't think many would be happy
waiting in line twice to pay (fillups still **** me off when the network is
down).

Also note that the business that owns the pumps and the gas is usually
different than the one that owns the slurpees. The EPA saw to that.

On Sep 18, 11:24*am, "
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 05:56:13 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I never understood why a convenience store would want you to pay at
the pump. Once inside, you may grab a soda, coffee, etc. The place I
get most of my gas for the past 10 years I've never gone inside at
all. *Never spent and extra dime.

When it was the norm to pay after filling the tank, sure, get 'em in the
store. *However, drive-offs killed that. *I don't think many would be happy
waiting in line twice to pay (snip)

But that's what started the thread. To fill-up using cash - to get the
discount - you often have to wait in line twice.

Wait in line...give 'em $75...pump $65...wait in line...get your $10
change.

In addition, some of the cheaper stations don't have pay at the pump
even if they don't offer cash discounts.

Wait in line...hand them a card, "Fillling up on pump 3"...pump
$65...wait in line..."Please enter your pin number"..."Thanks have a
nice day"

For me, it oftens depends on a combination of 2 things:

1 - How much of a hurry I am In.
2- How much gas I need.

Last weekend I drove 700 miles round trip to my dad's. Since gas stops
were for full tanks, I was willing to put up with the inconvenience of
going inside to save as much as possible. If I'm in a hurry or I need
to top off for some reason, I'll pay the higher cost for the speed and
convenience of paying at the pump.

Note: My logic doesn't need to make sense to the rest of the
world...it works for me.

On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 08:46:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sep 18, 11:24*am, "
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 05:56:13 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I never understood why a convenience store would want you to pay at
the pump. Once inside, you may grab a soda, coffee, etc. The place I
get most of my gas for the past 10 years I've never gone inside at
all. *Never spent and extra dime.

When it was the norm to pay after filling the tank, sure, get 'em in the
store. *However, drive-offs killed that. *I don't think many would be happy
waiting in line twice to pay (snip)

But that's what started the thread. To fill-up using cash - to get the
discount - you often have to wait in line twice.

Right, but my bet is that few actually pay cash (and stand in line twice).

Wait in line...give 'em $75...pump $65...wait in line...get your $10
change.

In addition, some of the cheaper stations don't have pay at the pump
even if they don't offer cash discounts.

I haven't seen a station without pay-at-the-pump here in many years. Sometimes
the pump is broken, though.

Wait in line...hand them a card, "Fillling up on pump 3"...pump
$65...wait in line..."Please enter your pin number"..."Thanks have a
nice day"

For me, it oftens depends on a combination of 2 things:

1 - How much of a hurry I am In.
2- How much gas I need.

Last weekend I drove 700 miles round trip to my dad's. Since gas stops
were for full tanks, I was willing to put up with the inconvenience of
going inside to save as much as possible. If I'm in a hurry or I need
to top off for some reason, I'll pay the higher cost for the speed and
convenience of paying at the pump.

As I said in another post in the thread, I've found that the places with cash
discounts aren't the cheapest anyway. I avoid them at all costs.

Note: My logic doesn't need to make sense to the rest of the
world...it works for me.

Sure. I don't like guessing at how much cash I need to leave (with the
possibly a third time in line) with the minimum wage moron at the counter. I'd
rather owe it to them than have to beat it out of them. ;-)

On Sep 18, 11:56*am, "
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 08:46:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sep 18, 11:24*am, "
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 05:56:13 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I never understood why a convenience store would want you to pay at
the pump. Once inside, you may grab a soda, coffee, etc. The place I
get most of my gas for the past 10 years I've never gone inside at
all. *Never spent and extra dime.

When it was the norm to pay after filling the tank, sure, get 'em in the
store. *However, drive-offs killed that. *I don't think many would be happy
waiting in line twice to pay *(snip)

But that's what started the thread. To fill-up using cash - to get the
discount - you often have to wait in line twice.

Right, but my bet is that few actually pay cash (and stand in line twice)..

Wait in line...give 'em $75...pump $65...wait in line...get your $10
change.

In addition, some of the cheaper stations don't have pay at the pump
even if they don't offer cash discounts.

I haven't seen a station without pay-at-the-pump here in many years. Sometimes
the pump is broken, though.


They still exist. The cheapest gas available near my dad's house
doesn't take cards at the pump, but they don't offer a cash discount
either. Their price is alway .02 - .03 cheaper than anyone else
around, even without a cash discount.


As I said in another post in the thread, I've found that the places with cash
discounts aren't the cheapest anyway. *I avoid them at all costs.


That's what the Gas Buddy app on my smart phone is for. I sort by
price then see how far it is from where I am or am going and balance
the 2 pieces of information. The thing is, many times the cheapest
price listed by the app is the cash price but you don't know that
until you get to the station. That's why I now need to carry cash if I
want to get the discount.

On 09/18/2012 10:46 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[nip]

But that's what started the thread. To fill-up using cash - to get the
discount - you often have to wait in line twice.

Wait in line...give 'em $75...pump $65...wait in line...get your $10
change.

[snip]

I wound pick an amount that's less than a whole fill-up and pay that.
That would be enough gas.

I really don't like being penalized for OTHER PEOPLE'S crimes (that "pay
in advance" *******).

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes." - Gotthold Ephraim
Lessing

In article ,
SMS wrote:

It's mini-marts that sell gas, not gas stations with mini-marts that are
excluded.

I'll bite. How does one differentiate?