My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.


I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks



--
www.rationality.net

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:11:17 -0700, "walter"
wrote:

My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.


I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks

Consider a grout saw from the borg stores (~$5.00). The blade has
diamond grit edges and will remove grout. If you have stains like
grease take it down a little move and add clean grout on top of the
old. Then seal again.

Pic:

http://www.prosourcecenter.com/catalog/10090GroutSaw.jpg

"walter" wrote:
My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic
tiles and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over
many years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and
does not look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then
scrub the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.


I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass toothbrush.

Thanks




Get a Harbor Freight Multi-Function tool (you *know* you want one!) and
then get one of this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/diamond...ade-67264.html

They also make a grout blade for the Dremel Multi-Max and Fein version.

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:50:09 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:11:17 -0700, "walter"
wrote:

My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.


I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks

Consider a grout saw from the borg stores (~$5.00). The blade has
diamond grit edges and will remove grout. If you have stains like
grease take it down a little move and add clean grout on top of the
old. Then seal again.

Pic:

http://www.prosourcecenter.com/catalog/10090GroutSaw.jpg


Are you sure about this .... "add clean grout on top of the old" ? It
just doesn't sound right to me. And I would think it would just be
easier to remove all the old grout but this isn't a fun job either.

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 20:40:20 -0500, "Doug"
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:50:09 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:11:17 -0700, "walter"
wrote:

My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.


I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks

Consider a grout saw from the borg stores (~$5.00). The blade has
diamond grit edges and will remove grout. If you have stains like
grease take it down a little move and add clean grout on top of the
old. Then seal again.

Pic:

http://www.prosourcecenter.com/catalog/10090GroutSaw.jpg


Are you sure about this .... "add clean grout on top of the old" ? It
just doesn't sound right to me. And I would think it would just be
easier to remove all the old grout but this isn't a fun job either.

Yes I'm sure (experience). Why remove all the grout? Get past a grease
stain or faulty grout. Fix 'er up works. Cleaned and sealed,

I've had 4 homes with 4" tile on a counter top. Ask my bride! She
knows how to make dirty tile look great. We sold every one with a
bright and shiny counter top of tile.

On Sep 12, 5:11*pm, "walter" wrote:
My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.

I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks

--www.rationality.net

1/2" grout lines?

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:47:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sep 12, 5:11*pm, "walter" wrote:
My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.

I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks

--www.rationality.net

1/2" grout lines?

You caught it. Only a nut would have those 1/2" grout lines on 4"
tiles.

Glad you caught it!

Walter: This is gonna be a long post cuz removing grout sealer is something I've done a fair bit of.

You asked: "What do the pros use?"

No one makes a living doing what you're trying to do. So there are no "pros" at this. The closest thing would be a janitor...

...or a landlord.

Seriously, I wouldn't start removing any grout with a power tool just to remove the sealer on it.

If your sealer is peeling off the grout, then what you have on your counter tops is a "film forming" grout sealer (as opposed to a "penetrating" grout sealer). ((Penetrating grout sealers weren't very common 30 years ago.))

Now, film forming grout sealers come in two flavours; acrylic and silicone based. That is, the plastic they're made of will either be the same plastic that Plexiglas is made of, or the same plastic that silicone caulk is made of (which is technically called "siloxane" nowadays).

So, since top quality latex paints are also "acrylic", if your grout sealer is acrylic, then anything that removes latex paint will also remove your grout sealer. Take some nail polish remover, or buy some acetone at any paint & hardware store or home center, and apply it to your grout line(s) and scrub with a green Scotchbrite pad



which you can buy in any super market for scrubbing pots and pans. I'm suggesting you use a Scotchbrite pad instead of a tooth brush or denture cleaning brush because Scotchbrite pads won't spray tiny droplets of acetone all over the place like a stiff bristle brush will.

Be careful using acetone. It's highly flammable and it'll dissolve a lot of different stuff, so don't spill any on your floor. Maybe pour some acetone into a large mouth container outside or over your kitchen sink, and then dip a piece of Scotchbrite pad in it and scrub your grout lines with that. Use a resealable container cuz acetone evaporates fairly quickly so you can't leave that container open overnight or even open for a few hours.

If the sealer is removed, then you can continue using acetone, or lacquer thinner (which evaporates more slowly) or xylene (which evaporates even slower) instead, or switch to a methylene chloride based paint stripper like Polystrippa. All of the previously mentioned solvents evaporate completely without leaving a residue. The active ingredient in conventional paint strippers is methylene chloride which also evaporates completely without leaving any residue. If you find any residue left by a paint stripper, it'll just be the gelling agent, which you can remove with mineral spirits (which also evaporates without leaving any residue).

If the sealer doesn't come off, then I'd assume it's a silicone based grout sealer, and use this stuff on it:



or...

http://external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_im...fL._SL500_.jpg

both DAP's Silicone-Be-Gone and McKanica's Silicone Caulk Remover Gel are basically gelled mineral spirits, and you should be able to find both of them in the caulking aisle of your local hardware store or home center.

Now, I've never used a silicone based film forming grout sealer (and I don't intend to start), so I have no experience removing silicone based grout sealers. We'll have to play this by ear in that respect.

However, I have acrylic film forming grout sealers in all 21 of my apartment bathrooms, and I've had plenty of experience removing acrylic grout sealers from the ceramic tiling on the walls around the bathtubs in those apartments. You might not believe it, but if you have the world's worst chain smoker as a tenant, the acrylic grout sealer on your bathroom ceramic tiling can get smoke stained just like the acrylic paint on the walls of that apartment.

So, do the acetone test and/or the Silicone-Be-Gone tests and post again.

Once we know what kind of grout sealer you have, we can talk about the easiest way to remove it. And, we can talk about the two best acrylic grout sealers (in my view) to put on.

wrote in message
...
On Sep 12, 5:11 pm, "walter" wrote:
My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic
tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over
many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does
not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then
scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.

I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks

--www.rationality.net

1/2" grout lines?

You are right; I meant 1/4" grout lines

clipped

http://www.prosourcecenter.com/catalog/10090GroutSaw.jpg


Are you sure about this .... "add clean grout on top of the old" ? It
just doesn't sound right to me. And I would think it would just be
easier to remove all the old grout but this isn't a fun job either.

I don't know of an easy option. Removing some of the old grout....I
think removing 1/8" depth is minimum to give new grout a secure bed...is
the only way to renew it. Unless you try sandpaper and then resealing.
I removed and replaced grout in a tile shower stall that had 1x4 tiles
and fine grout lines. Hard work with a Dremel grout tool, but doable
(and I'm an old lady). Most difficult were getting down to do the
lowest portions and then putting in new grout; it takes some muscle to
mush in the new grout.

walter wrote:
My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4"
ceramic tiles and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years
without a chip or blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed.
Over many years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling
off and does not look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then
scrub the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.


I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does
not scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.


If it were me, I'd use acid. One *does* need to know how to use it though,


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:00:55 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 20:40:20 -0500, "Doug"
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:50:09 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:11:17 -0700, "walter"
wrote:

My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.


I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks

Consider a grout saw from the borg stores (~$5.00). The blade has
diamond grit edges and will remove grout. If you have stains like
grease take it down a little move and add clean grout on top of the
old. Then seal again.

Pic:

http://www.prosourcecenter.com/catalog/10090GroutSaw.jpg


Are you sure about this .... "add clean grout on top of the old" ? It
just doesn't sound right to me. And I would think it would just be
easier to remove all the old grout but this isn't a fun job either.

Yes I'm sure (experience). Why remove all the grout? Get past a grease
stain or faulty grout. Fix 'er up works. Cleaned and sealed,

I've had 4 homes with 4" tile on a counter top. Ask my bride! She
knows how to make dirty tile look great. We sold every one with a
bright and shiny counter top of tile.


I guess I'm wondering how well the new and old bond after a year or so
of wear? I'm no expert on this subject but I'm just leary on this
idea. I do think tho the old has to at least be cleaned and brushed
well to make a decent bond at a minimum. Maybe they sell a bonding
agent before you put down the new grout to help in this cause??? I'm
not going to argue with experience tho.

On Sep 13, 8:40*am, "Doug" wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:00:55 -0700, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 20:40:20 -0500, "Doug"
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:50:09 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:11:17 -0700, "walter"
wrote:

My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.

I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks

Consider a grout saw from the borg stores (~$5.00). The blade has
diamond grit edges and will remove grout. If you have stains like
grease take it down a little move and add clean grout on top of the
old. Then seal again.

Pic:

http://www.prosourcecenter.com/catalog/10090GroutSaw.jpg

Are you sure about this .... "add clean grout on top of the old" ? It
just doesn't sound right to me. * And I would think it would just be
easier to remove all the old grout but this isn't a fun job either.

Yes I'm sure (experience). Why remove all the grout? Get past a grease
stain or faulty grout. Fix 'er up works. Cleaned and sealed,

I've had 4 homes with 4" tile on a counter top. Ask my bride! She
knows how to make dirty tile look great. We sold every one with a
bright and shiny counter top of tile.

I guess I'm wondering how well the new and old bond after a year or so
of wear? * I'm no expert on this subject but I'm just leary on this
idea. * I do think tho the old has to at least be cleaned and brushed
well to make a decent bond at a minimum. * Maybe they sell a bonding
agent before you put down the new grout to help in this cause??? *I'm
not going to argue with experience tho. * *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"I do think tho the old has to at least be cleaned and brushed
well to make a decent bond at a minimum"

Go back to the original suggestion that you asked about.

The first step was to use a grout saw to remove some of the old grout.
This, of course, would be done anywhere you would be adding new grout
over old.

"remove some of the old grout" "cleaned and brushed well"

If you didn't remove some of the old grout, bonding would not the only
issue, physical space would also be a problem.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 06:20:26 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sep 13, 8:40*am, "Doug" wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:00:55 -0700, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 20:40:20 -0500, "Doug"
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:50:09 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:11:17 -0700, "walter"
wrote:

My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.

I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks

Consider a grout saw from the borg stores (~$5.00). The blade has
diamond grit edges and will remove grout. If you have stains like
grease take it down a little move and add clean grout on top of the
old. Then seal again.

Pic:

http://www.prosourcecenter.com/catalog/10090GroutSaw.jpg

Are you sure about this .... "add clean grout on top of the old" ? It
just doesn't sound right to me. * And I would think it would just be
easier to remove all the old grout but this isn't a fun job either.

Yes I'm sure (experience). Why remove all the grout? Get past a grease
stain or faulty grout. Fix 'er up works. Cleaned and sealed,

I've had 4 homes with 4" tile on a counter top. Ask my bride! She
knows how to make dirty tile look great. We sold every one with a
bright and shiny counter top of tile.

I guess I'm wondering how well the new and old bond after a year or so
of wear? * I'm no expert on this subject but I'm just leary on this
idea. * I do think tho the old has to at least be cleaned and brushed
well to make a decent bond at a minimum. * Maybe they sell a bonding
agent before you put down the new grout to help in this cause??? *I'm
not going to argue with experience tho. * *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"I do think tho the old has to at least be cleaned and brushed
well to make a decent bond at a minimum"

Go back to the original suggestion that you asked about.

The first step was to use a grout saw to remove some of the old grout.
This, of course, would be done anywhere you would be adding new grout
over old.

"remove some of the old grout" "cleaned and brushed well"

If you didn't remove some of the old grout, bonding would not the only
issue, physical space would also be a problem.


okay

On 9/13/2012 7:57 AM, dadiOH wrote:
walter wrote:
My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4"
ceramic tiles and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years
without a chip or blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed.
Over many years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling
off and does not look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then
scrub the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.


I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does
not scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.


If it were me, I'd use acid. One *does* need to know how to use it though,


Ever do it? Acid will damage tile if the tile has metallic (coloring)
glaze.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 07:12:12 -0400, Norminn wrote:

clipped

http://www.prosourcecenter.com/catalog/10090GroutSaw.jpg


Are you sure about this .... "add clean grout on top of the old" ? It
just doesn't sound right to me. And I would think it would just be
easier to remove all the old grout but this isn't a fun job either.

I don't know of an easy option. Removing some of the old grout....I
think removing 1/8" depth is minimum to give new grout a secure bed...is
the only way to renew it. Unless you try sandpaper and then resealing.
I removed and replaced grout in a tile shower stall that had 1x4 tiles
and fine grout lines. Hard work with a Dremel grout tool, but doable
(and I'm an old lady). Most difficult were getting down to do the
lowest portions and then putting in new grout; it takes some muscle to
mush in the new grout.

I also replaced the grout in a shower surround using a Dremel tool to cut the
old tile out. I found a source on the Internet for the bits; would have gone
broke with Dremel bits, at $10 each. I think I went through 20 bits. If I
had to do it again, I'd use the grout saw for a multi-tool. The rotary motion
of the Dremel tended to pull the bit into the tile.

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:24:02 -0700, "walter" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sep 12, 5:11 pm, "walter" wrote:
My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic
tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over
many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does
not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then
scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.

I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks

--www.rationality.net

1/2" grout lines?

You are right; I meant 1/4" grout lines

That's still pretty wide. The grout should come out pretty easily (compared
to 1/8", or less). With lines that wide, I'd really look into the grout saw
options for multi-tools.

On Sep 13, 10:51*am, "
wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:24:02 -0700, "walter" wrote:

wrote in message
....
On Sep 12, 5:11 pm, "walter" wrote:
My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic
tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over
many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does
not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then
scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.

I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks

--www.rationality.net

1/2" grout lines?

You are right; I meant 1/4" grout lines

That's still pretty wide. *The grout should come out pretty easily (compared
to 1/8", or less). * With lines that wide, I'd really look into the grout saw
options for multi-tools.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If I were to use a multi-tool, I would use this as the excuse to buy
the variable speed model from HF.

Even though I've only used the single speed model, there have been
times when I've said to myself "Man, I wish I could slow this thing
down". I don't know if it would have helped/worked, but I would have
like to have had the opportunity to try.

Before I attacked any project related to tile that I wanted to save,
I'd really want to start as slow as possible to reduce the chance of a
runaway tool.

I know the HF variable speed model can be had for ~$40 when it's on
sale, but I just haven't been able to justify it when the single speed
is still working fine. I really need to drop that thing off a roof or
something. I'm going to be taking it to my dad's house this weekend,
which is 300 miles away. Maybe I'll forget to bring it home. It sure
wouldn't be worth the shipping costs to get it back. ;-)

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 07:40:40 -0500, "Doug"
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:00:55 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 20:40:20 -0500, "Doug"
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:50:09 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:11:17 -0700, "walter"
wrote:

My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.


I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks

Consider a grout saw from the borg stores (~$5.00). The blade has
diamond grit edges and will remove grout. If you have stains like
grease take it down a little move and add clean grout on top of the
old. Then seal again.

Pic:

http://www.prosourcecenter.com/catalog/10090GroutSaw.jpg


Are you sure about this .... "add clean grout on top of the old" ? It
just doesn't sound right to me. And I would think it would just be
easier to remove all the old grout but this isn't a fun job either.

Yes I'm sure (experience). Why remove all the grout? Get past a grease
stain or faulty grout. Fix 'er up works. Cleaned and sealed,

I've had 4 homes with 4" tile on a counter top. Ask my bride! She
knows how to make dirty tile look great. We sold every one with a
bright and shiny counter top of tile.


I guess I'm wondering how well the new and old bond after a year or so
of wear? I'm no expert on this subject but I'm just leary on this
idea. I do think tho the old has to at least be cleaned and brushed
well to make a decent bond at a minimum. Maybe they sell a bonding
agent before you put down the new grout to help in this cause??? I'm
not going to argue with experience tho.

I've not checked for a "bonding agent" but I suppose there is one?
With the grout saw; removal of sealer, stains and some grout, adding
fresh grout on top will bond.

For example I replaced a single cracked floor tile. Once grouted, the
grout stuck to the old grout at the corners. It never showed any
failure.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 08:13:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sep 13, 10:51*am, "
wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:24:02 -0700, "walter" wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sep 12, 5:11 pm, "walter" wrote:
My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic
tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over
many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does
not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then
scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.

I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks

--www.rationality.net

1/2" grout lines?

You are right; I meant 1/4" grout lines

That's still pretty wide. *The grout should come out pretty easily (compared
to 1/8", or less). * With lines that wide, I'd really look into the grout saw
options for multi-tools.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If I were to use a multi-tool, I would use this as the excuse to buy
the variable speed model from HF.

I have a Dremel and a cordless Bosch. Variable speed is good but I rarely use
the feature. In this case it might be good to minimize heat, extending blade
life.

Even though I've only used the single speed model, there have been
times when I've said to myself "Man, I wish I could slow this thing
down". I don't know if it would have helped/worked, but I would have
like to have had the opportunity to try.

Before I attacked any project related to tile that I wanted to save,
I'd really want to start as slow as possible to reduce the chance of a
runaway tool.

That's sometimes a good plan. However, I've noticed that sometimes a
multi-tool will be less controllable at low speed. Like a Sawsall, sometimes
it'll want to "bind". A higher speed makes that less likely (but potentially
worse when it does). IT's a trade-off but variable is good.

I know the HF variable speed model can be had for ~$40 when it's on
sale, but I just haven't been able to justify it when the single speed
is still working fine. I really need to drop that thing off a roof or
something. I'm going to be taking it to my dad's house this weekend,
which is 300 miles away. Maybe I'll forget to bring it home. It sure
wouldn't be worth the shipping costs to get it back. ;-)

That's why I don't buy cheep tools. They're too hard to replace. ;-)

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:15:11 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 07:40:40 -0500, "Doug"
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:00:55 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 20:40:20 -0500, "Doug"
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:50:09 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:11:17 -0700, "walter"
wrote:

My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4" ceramic tiles
and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years without a chip or
blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed. Over many
years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling off and does not
look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then scrub
the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.


I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does not
scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.

Thanks

Consider a grout saw from the borg stores (~$5.00). The blade has
diamond grit edges and will remove grout. If you have stains like
grease take it down a little move and add clean grout on top of the
old. Then seal again.

Pic:

http://www.prosourcecenter.com/catalog/10090GroutSaw.jpg


Are you sure about this .... "add clean grout on top of the old" ? It
just doesn't sound right to me. And I would think it would just be
easier to remove all the old grout but this isn't a fun job either.

Yes I'm sure (experience). Why remove all the grout? Get past a grease
stain or faulty grout. Fix 'er up works. Cleaned and sealed,

I've had 4 homes with 4" tile on a counter top. Ask my bride! She
knows how to make dirty tile look great. We sold every one with a
bright and shiny counter top of tile.


I guess I'm wondering how well the new and old bond after a year or so
of wear? I'm no expert on this subject but I'm just leary on this
idea. I do think tho the old has to at least be cleaned and brushed
well to make a decent bond at a minimum. Maybe they sell a bonding
agent before you put down the new grout to help in this cause??? I'm
not going to argue with experience tho.

I've not checked for a "bonding agent" but I suppose there is one?
With the grout saw; removal of sealer, stains and some grout, adding
fresh grout on top will bond.

For example I replaced a single cracked floor tile. Once grouted, the
grout stuck to the old grout at the corners. It never showed any
failure.


Okay, sounds good to me. I'll just try to remember this tho I hope I
won't have to....if you know what I mean.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 19:32:18 +0000, nestork
wrote:


Removing the grout to remove the sealer on the grout is completely
unnecessary. It just creates more work removing enough grout so that
the new grout sticks into the grout joints properly, and in my humble
opinion, to accomplish that, you'd either need to use concrete bonding
agent on the old grout or remove the old grout entirely and regrout from
scratch. Either way, it's simply no necessary.

It's like removing the floor to remove the carpet on the floor.

Or, removing the paint to remove the dirt on the paint.

If the sealer is already coming off the grout on it's own, it's not
gonna be necessary to remove the grout to remove what doesn't come off
on it's own.

OK, I'm gonna get off my soap box now, but removing the grout to remove
the sealer on that grout is completely unnecessary.

I'll give your report to my bride for her consideration.

Walter wrote:

If the grout sealer is scaling off the SURFACE of the grout, then before taking a diamond saw to these counter tops, why not try dissolving that old grout sealer with acetone, or paint stripper or gelled mineral spirits?

None of those things are going to harm either the grout or the tiles, and if they don't work, the option of taking a saw to the counter tops remains open as a back-up plan:

Walter:
If you're still reading this post, can you read and respond to my post on the first page of this thread? Thank you.

Doug wrote:
Okay, sounds good to me. I'll just try to remember this tho I hope I
won't have to....if you know what I mean.

You could also look at "grout colorants".

Norminn wrote:
On 9/13/2012 7:57 AM, dadiOH wrote:
walter wrote:
My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4"
ceramic tiles and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years
without a chip or blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed.
Over many years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling
off and does not look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then
scrub the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new
sealer. I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which
does not scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired
of it. Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out
of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.


If it were me, I'd use acid. One *does* need to know how to use it
though,
Ever do it? Acid will damage tile if the tile has metallic (coloring)
glaze.

Yeah, I've done it. First time some 50+ years ago was sort of an
error...rented apartment, really dirty white grout on the shower floor tile.
My intention was to remove part and redo; acid was too strong, ate it all
out. No big problem, just needed more grout than I had planned for.

And no, I wouldn't use it on anything that the acid could damage other than
the grout.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

walter wrote:
My kitchen and bathroom counters are covered with beautiful 4"
ceramic tiles and 1/2 " grout lines. They have lasted for 30 years
without a chip or blemish.

The problem is with the grout. Originally it was probably sealed.
Over many years, the sealer has deteriorated. It is kind of scaling
off and does not look so good any more.

So, I would like to remove all remnants of the original sealer, then
scrub the grout free of accumulated grime and then apply a new sealer.


I can remove the old sealer pretty well with a brass bush, which does
not scratch the tiles. However, it is hard work and I am tired of it.

Is there a mechanical scrubber that will take the hard work out of
refurbishing my grout?

What do the pros use? I am sure they do not do it with a small brass
toothbrush.


Another possibility is to use what I call a reefing iron. My experience
with them has been to remove material from the seams in boats. There is
something made for masonry seams that is essentially the same but I don't
know the name...maybe "seam chisel" or "joint chisel". This is what they
look like, "D" in photo near bottom...

http://www.sydnassloot.com/caulking.htm

The blade is tapered both vertically and horizontally. To use, one taps the
tip into and along the seam, lifting up to break up and expel material.

I've never tried one on masonry or grout but if I had a sizeable area of
grout to remove I'd certainly give one a whirl. I'm sure it would work far
better than these over priced Dremel cutting wheels.

If joint width permits, I might use a circular saw with a masonry cut off
wheel. Gotta stay away from the tile edges though.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net