I hope this isn't too far OT. It is about hydraulics and I think
that's of interest here.

But it's about male urine hydraulics. And I need some advice before
I try to talk to the doctor again. I've learned one needs to be
informed when talking to a doctor.

Until 2 months ago, I could pee normally, one single stream going just
where I pointed it, except once every 6 months or so, the sides of the
opening were stuck together for a minute or so, but that was so rare
it was no problem.

But recently, I had blood in my urine and the urologist sent a scope
up my urethra to look inside my bladder, then on another day something
else to do a bladder biopsy (negative), and 10 days after that, a
laser to zap a bladder stone, almost as big as a golf ball. .

Between the 2nd and last procedure I had 3 different catheters, and
after the last procedure, abother thicker, stiffer one with a bigger
channel inside, to allow any remaining little particles from the
stone to come out. Everything is fine now, no more blood, except now
I almost always pee in 2 or 3 streams going in all directions and it
makes a mess if I'm standing up.

In response to this problem, the doctor thought I need a smaller
prostate, either with a stronger drug or a laser-sapping (this time
the prostate itself, not the bladder stone (which is gone).

But the prostate is several inches from the opening, at the end.
Wouldn't any turbulence caused by a narrow opening due to a enlarged
prostate(*) even itself out before the exit point, even if we
understated the distance as 3 or 2 inches), and doesn't that mean the
obstruction is quite close to the opening?????

And not where the prostate is. After all, I was peeing normally
until the day before the 2nd procedure, and even though the outside
catheter surface is smooth, I can't help thinking it messed something
up near the exit point, maybe when one of the four were coming out.

*(which is probably no more enlarged than it was 14 days earlier,
before the 2nd procuedure) )


Background. The tube leading to the opening is called the urethra,
but the tube ends (or starts) where the prostate is, and from there up
to the bladder, there is no tube just a space made by the lobes of the
prostate. At least this is approximately right, and it's why it's
possible to zap the prostate with a laser without cutting through the
urethra, or needing to sew it back up.



I don't mind posted replies, in fact they are better because other
people reply to them,, but if anyone wants to email, remove the extra
r's after onlooker. There should be only one.

Onlooker wrote:
I hope this isn't too far OT. It is about hydraulics and I think
that's of interest here.

But it's about male urine hydraulics. And I need some advice before
I try to talk to the doctor again. I've learned one needs to be
informed when talking to a doctor.

Until 2 months ago, I could pee normally, one single stream going just
where I pointed it, except once every 6 months or so, the sides of the
opening were stuck together for a minute or so, but that was so rare
it was no problem.

But recently, I had blood in my urine and the urologist sent a scope
up my urethra to look inside my bladder, then on another day something
else to do a bladder biopsy (negative), and 10 days after that, a
laser to zap a bladder stone, almost as big as a golf ball. .

Between the 2nd and last procedure I had 3 different catheters, and
after the last procedure, abother thicker, stiffer one with a bigger
channel inside, to allow any remaining little particles from the
stone to come out. Everything is fine now, no more blood, except now
I almost always pee in 2 or 3 streams going in all directions and it
makes a mess if I'm standing up.

In response to this problem, the doctor thought I need a smaller
prostate, either with a stronger drug or a laser-sapping (this time
the prostate itself, not the bladder stone (which is gone).

But the prostate is several inches from the opening, at the end.
Wouldn't any turbulence caused by a narrow opening due to a enlarged
prostate(*) even itself out before the exit point, even if we
understated the distance as 3 or 2 inches), and doesn't that mean the
obstruction is quite close to the opening?????

And not where the prostate is. After all, I was peeing normally
until the day before the 2nd procedure, and even though the outside
catheter surface is smooth, I can't help thinking it messed something
up near the exit point, maybe when one of the four were coming out.

*(which is probably no more enlarged than it was 14 days earlier,
before the 2nd procuedure) )


Background. The tube leading to the opening is called the urethra,
but the tube ends (or starts) where the prostate is, and from there up
to the bladder, there is no tube just a space made by the lobes of the
prostate. At least this is approximately right, and it's why it's
possible to zap the prostate with a laser without cutting through the
urethra, or needing to sew it back up.



I don't mind posted replies, in fact they are better because other
people reply to them,, but if anyone wants to email, remove the extra
r's after onlooker. There should be only one.

For a minute I thought I clicked sic.med.prostrate

How about a snake ?

Greg

On Sun, 8 Jul 2012 01:45:44 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:

Onlooker wrote:
I hope this isn't too far OT. It is about hydraulics and I think
that's of interest here.

But it's about male urine hydraulics. And I need some advice before
I try to talk to the doctor again. I've learned one needs to be
informed when talking to a doctor.

Until 2 months ago, I could pee normally, one single stream going just
where I pointed it, except once every 6 months or so, the sides of the
opening were stuck together for a minute or so, but that was so rare
it was no problem.

But recently, I had blood in my urine and the urologist sent a scope
up my urethra to look inside my bladder, then on another day something
else to do a bladder biopsy (negative), and 10 days after that, a
laser to zap a bladder stone, almost as big as a golf ball. .

Between the 2nd and last procedure I had 3 different catheters, and
after the last procedure, abother thicker, stiffer one with a bigger
channel inside, to allow any remaining little particles from the
stone to come out. Everything is fine now, no more blood, except now
I almost always pee in 2 or 3 streams going in all directions and it
makes a mess if I'm standing up.

In response to this problem, the doctor thought I need a smaller
prostate, either with a stronger drug or a laser-sapping (this time
the prostate itself, not the bladder stone (which is gone).

But the prostate is several inches from the opening, at the end.
Wouldn't any turbulence caused by a narrow opening due to a enlarged
prostate(*) even itself out before the exit point, even if we
understated the distance as 3 or 2 inches), and doesn't that mean the
obstruction is quite close to the opening?????

And not where the prostate is. After all, I was peeing normally
until the day before the 2nd procedure, and even though the outside
catheter surface is smooth, I can't help thinking it messed something
up near the exit point, maybe when one of the four were coming out.

*(which is probably no more enlarged than it was 14 days earlier,
before the 2nd procuedure) )


Background. The tube leading to the opening is called the urethra,
but the tube ends (or starts) where the prostate is, and from there up
to the bladder, there is no tube just a space made by the lobes of the
prostate. At least this is approximately right, and it's why it's
possible to zap the prostate with a laser without cutting through the
urethra, or needing to sew it back up.



I don't mind posted replies, in fact they are better because other
people reply to them,, but if anyone wants to email, remove the extra
r's after onlooker. There should be only one.

For a minute I thought I clicked sic.med.prostrate

How about a snake ?

I thought that was what he was talking about.

Roto-rooter is another common treatment for this.

On 7/7/2012 8:18 PM, Onlooker wrote:
I hope this isn't too far OT. It is about hydraulics and I think
that's of interest here.

But it's about male urine hydraulics. And I need some advice before
I try to talk to the doctor again. I've learned one needs to be
informed when talking to a doctor.

Until 2 months ago, I could pee normally, one single stream going just
where I pointed it, except once every 6 months or so, the sides of the
opening were stuck together for a minute or so, but that was so rare
it was no problem.

But recently, I had blood in my urine and the urologist sent a scope
up my urethra to look inside my bladder, then on another day something
else to do a bladder biopsy (negative), and 10 days after that, a
laser to zap a bladder stone, almost as big as a golf ball. .

Between the 2nd and last procedure I had 3 different catheters, and
after the last procedure, abother thicker, stiffer one with a bigger
channel inside, to allow any remaining little particles from the
stone to come out. Everything is fine now, no more blood, except now
I almost always pee in 2 or 3 streams going in all directions and it
makes a mess if I'm standing up.

In response to this problem, the doctor thought I need a smaller
prostate, either with a stronger drug or a laser-sapping (this time
the prostate itself, not the bladder stone (which is gone).

But the prostate is several inches from the opening, at the end.
Wouldn't any turbulence caused by a narrow opening due to a enlarged
prostate(*) even itself out before the exit point, even if we
understated the distance as 3 or 2 inches), and doesn't that mean the
obstruction is quite close to the opening?????

And not where the prostate is. After all, I was peeing normally
until the day before the 2nd procedure, and even though the outside
catheter surface is smooth, I can't help thinking it messed something
up near the exit point, maybe when one of the four were coming out.

*(which is probably no more enlarged than it was 14 days earlier,
before the 2nd procuedure) )


Background. The tube leading to the opening is called the urethra,
but the tube ends (or starts) where the prostate is, and from there up
to the bladder, there is no tube just a space made by the lobes of the
prostate. At least this is approximately right, and it's why it's
possible to zap the prostate with a laser without cutting through the
urethra, or needing to sew it back up.



I don't mind posted replies, in fact they are better because other
people reply to them,, but if anyone wants to email, remove the extra
r's after onlooker. There should be only one.


It's possibly scar tissue inside the urethra. Perhaps your physician can
install a new nozzle? ^_^

TDD

On 7/7/2012 9:18 PM, Onlooker wrote:
I hope this isn't too far OT. It is about hydraulics and I think
that's of interest here.

But it's about male urine hydraulics. And I need some advice before
I try to talk to the doctor again. I've learned one needs to be
informed when talking to a doctor.

Until 2 months ago, I could pee normally, one single stream going just
where I pointed it, except once every 6 months or so, the sides of the
opening were stuck together for a minute or so, but that was so rare
it was no problem.

Did you ask the doc why that was happening (sticking together)?
Inflammation? Discharge? Any meds or other medical issues going on?

But recently, I had blood in my urine and the urologist sent a scope
up my urethra to look inside my bladder, then on another day something
else to do a bladder biopsy (negative), and 10 days after that, a
laser to zap a bladder stone, almost as big as a golf ball. .

Smile...be happy that bugger was not in your kidney )

Between the 2nd and last procedure I had 3 different catheters, and
after the last procedure, abother thicker, stiffer one with a bigger
channel inside, to allow any remaining little particles from the
stone to come out. Everything is fine now, no more blood, except now
I almost always pee in 2 or 3 streams going in all directions and it
makes a mess if I'm standing up.

The larger urinary catheters might make strong men faint on seeing one
in place ) There is a balloon at the top that is inflated after
insertion and which holds the catheter in place (unless you have
dementia and want to just yank the thing out...happens regularly).
Balloon is usually 5 cc or 30 cc...30cc the norm after prostate removal.

Did the doc look up there after the last catheter removal to be sure no
stone fragments remain?

In response to this problem, the doctor thought I need a smaller
prostate, either with a stronger drug or a laser-sapping (this time
the prostate itself, not the bladder stone (which is gone).

But the prostate is several inches from the opening, at the end.
Wouldn't any turbulence caused by a narrow opening due to a enlarged
prostate(*) even itself out before the exit point, even if we
understated the distance as 3 or 2 inches), and doesn't that mean the
obstruction is quite close to the opening?????

This is the only present problem? If so, hold on and see how things go.
Most surgeons will sell stuff the patient is willing to buy and the
stuff is often not the "cure". Do read up on prostate problems in
legitimate scientific/medical resources. One complication of prostate
removal is incontinence...don't know the statistics, but it is something
I would not want to risk for some other minor issue. (Sitting down is
better than leaking all the time...I know because I'm not a prostate owner)

And not where the prostate is. After all, I was peeing normally
until the day before the 2nd procedure, and even though the outside
catheter surface is smooth, I can't help thinking it messed something
up near the exit point, maybe when one of the four were coming out.

You have had a lot of traffic up the old tube...swelling, inflammation,
possibly some stretching. Unless there is some medical reason not to do
so, drink a lot of fluids, including cranberry juice.

*(which is probably no more enlarged than it was 14 days earlier,
before the 2nd procuedure) )


Background. The tube leading to the opening is called the urethra,
but the tube ends (or starts) where the prostate is, and from there up
to the bladder, there is no tube just a space made by the lobes of the
prostate. At least this is approximately right, and it's why it's
possible to zap the prostate with a laser without cutting through the
urethra, or needing to sew it back up.

Well, you are close....the urethra goes from the bladder to the outlet
(you know where that is). The prostate encircles the urethra at the
base of the bladder (think "doughnut hole"); that's why the plumbing
doesn't work so well when the prostate enlarges. Can't do transurethral
prostate removal without nipping through that section of the urethra....



I don't mind posted replies, in fact they are better because other
people reply to them,, but if anyone wants to email, remove the extra
r's after onlooker. There should be only one.

On 7/7/2012 9:18 PM, Onlooker wrote:
I hope this isn't too far OT. It is about hydraulics and I think
that's of interest here.

But it's about male urine hydraulics. And I need some advice before
I try to talk to the doctor again. I've learned one needs to be
informed when talking to a doctor.

Until 2 months ago, I could pee normally, one single stream going just
where I pointed it, except once every 6 months or so, the sides of the
opening were stuck together for a minute or so, but that was so rare
it was no problem.

But recently, I had blood in my urine and the urologist sent a scope
up my urethra to look inside my bladder, then on another day something
else to do a bladder biopsy (negative), and 10 days after that, a
laser to zap a bladder stone, almost as big as a golf ball. .

Between the 2nd and last procedure I had 3 different catheters, and
after the last procedure, abother thicker, stiffer one with a bigger
channel inside, to allow any remaining little particles from the
stone to come out. Everything is fine now, no more blood, except now
I almost always pee in 2 or 3 streams going in all directions and it
makes a mess if I'm standing up.

In response to this problem, the doctor thought I need a smaller
prostate, either with a stronger drug or a laser-sapping (this time
the prostate itself, not the bladder stone (which is gone).

But the prostate is several inches from the opening, at the end.
Wouldn't any turbulence caused by a narrow opening due to a enlarged
prostate(*) even itself out before the exit point, even if we
understated the distance as 3 or 2 inches), and doesn't that mean the
obstruction is quite close to the opening?????

And not where the prostate is. After all, I was peeing normally
until the day before the 2nd procedure, and even though the outside
catheter surface is smooth, I can't help thinking it messed something
up near the exit point, maybe when one of the four were coming out.

*(which is probably no more enlarged than it was 14 days earlier,
before the 2nd procuedure) )


Background. The tube leading to the opening is called the urethra,
but the tube ends (or starts) where the prostate is, and from there up
to the bladder, there is no tube just a space made by the lobes of the
prostate. At least this is approximately right, and it's why it's
possible to zap the prostate with a laser without cutting through the
urethra, or needing to sew it back up.



I don't mind posted replies, in fact they are better because other
people reply to them,, but if anyone wants to email, remove the extra
r's after onlooker. There should be only one.


I think your instincts are good. To me, it sounds more like a "nozzle"
problem much closer to the outside world and not at all like a
restricted flow problem originating more proximally in the prostatic
urethra. Maybe there's a small tag of skin or scar tissue (possibly
produced from stone fragment or instrument trauma) either very close to
the outside world or even at the meatus that is producing the spray. If
your prostate were enlarged and constricting the urethra, it would
restrict urine flow, which would likely reduce flow turbulence. In
fact, I wonder if having prostatic surgery would exacerbate your
symptoms by increasing turbulance. As someone else has mentioned, there
are potentially unpleasant and undesirable side effects that can happen
with prostate surgery and personally, I'd rather live with a spray
problem than have prostatic surgery on account of that particular
symptom alone. If you can't get a logical, clear explanation from your
urologist how restricted urine flow from an enlarged prostate causes
your symptom, time to get a second opinion.

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 07:59:48 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

On 7/7/2012 9:18 PM, Onlooker wrote:
I hope this isn't too far OT. It is about hydraulics and I think
that's of interest here.

But it's about male urine hydraulics. And I need some advice before
I try to talk to the doctor again. I've learned one needs to be
informed when talking to a doctor.

Until 2 months ago, I could pee normally, one single stream going just
where I pointed it, except once every 6 months or so, the sides of the
opening were stuck together for a minute or so, but that was so rare
it was no problem.

Did you ask the doc why that was happening (sticking together)?
Inflammation? Discharge? Any meds or other medical issues going on?

But recently, I had blood in my urine and the urologist sent a scope
up my urethra to look inside my bladder, then on another day something
else to do a bladder biopsy (negative), and 10 days after that, a
laser to zap a bladder stone, almost as big as a golf ball. .

Smile...be happy that bugger was not in your kidney )

Between the 2nd and last procedure I had 3 different catheters, and
after the last procedure, abother thicker, stiffer one with a bigger
channel inside, to allow any remaining little particles from the
stone to come out. Everything is fine now, no more blood, except now
I almost always pee in 2 or 3 streams going in all directions and it
makes a mess if I'm standing up.

The larger urinary catheters might make strong men faint on seeing one
in place ) There is a balloon at the top that is inflated after
insertion and which holds the catheter in place (unless you have
dementia and want to just yank the thing out...happens regularly).
Balloon is usually 5 cc or 30 cc...30cc the norm after prostate removal.

Did the doc look up there after the last catheter removal to be sure no
stone fragments remain?

In response to this problem, the doctor thought I need a smaller
prostate, either with a stronger drug or a laser-sapping (this time
the prostate itself, not the bladder stone (which is gone).

But the prostate is several inches from the opening, at the end.
Wouldn't any turbulence caused by a narrow opening due to a enlarged
prostate(*) even itself out before the exit point, even if we
understated the distance as 3 or 2 inches), and doesn't that mean the
obstruction is quite close to the opening?????

This is the only present problem? If so, hold on and see how things go.
Most surgeons will sell stuff the patient is willing to buy and the
stuff is often not the "cure". Do read up on prostate problems in
legitimate scientific/medical resources. One complication of prostate
removal is incontinence...don't know the statistics, but it is something
I would not want to risk for some other minor issue. (Sitting down is
better than leaking all the time...I know because I'm not a prostate owner)

And not where the prostate is. After all, I was peeing normally
until the day before the 2nd procedure, and even though the outside
catheter surface is smooth, I can't help thinking it messed something
up near the exit point, maybe when one of the four were coming out.

You have had a lot of traffic up the old tube...swelling, inflammation,
possibly some stretching. Unless there is some medical reason not to do
so, drink a lot of fluids, including cranberry juice.

*(which is probably no more enlarged than it was 14 days earlier,
before the 2nd procuedure) )


Background. The tube leading to the opening is called the urethra,
but the tube ends (or starts) where the prostate is, and from there up
to the bladder, there is no tube just a space made by the lobes of the
prostate. At least this is approximately right, and it's why it's
possible to zap the prostate with a laser without cutting through the
urethra, or needing to sew it back up.

Well, you are close....the urethra goes from the bladder to the outlet
(you know where that is). The prostate encircles the urethra at the
base of the bladder (think "doughnut hole"); that's why the plumbing
doesn't work so well when the prostate enlarges. Can't do transurethral
prostate removal without nipping through that section of the urethra....


And "spray" from the nozzle will not be Prostrate problem, as the
prostrate is about 10 inches back the pipe. It's a nozzle problem, not
a valve or "supply end" problem.

I don't mind posted replies, in fact they are better because other
people reply to them,, but if anyone wants to email, remove the extra
r's after onlooker. There should be only one.

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 07:59:48 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

On 7/7/2012 9:18 PM, Onlooker wrote:
I hope this isn't too far OT. It is about hydraulics and I think
that's of interest here.

But it's about male urine hydraulics. And I need some advice before
I try to talk to the doctor again. I've learned one needs to be
informed when talking to a doctor.

Until 2 months ago, I could pee normally, one single stream going just
where I pointed it, except once every 6 months or so, the sides of the
opening were stuck together for a minute or so, but that was so rare
it was no problem.

Did you ask the doc why that was happening (sticking together)?

Yes, and his answer was that it was the enlarged prostate.

Inflammation? Discharge? Any meds or other medical issues going on?

There has not been any discharge ever, and no inflammation I could
see. The only med I'm taking is Vitamin D and generic Flowmax -
Tamsulosin. And I keep forgetting one or two days a week. It's
been 11 weeks since the last procedure, and I had been waiing for this
stream problem would go away.

The Flomax, he said, keeps the prostate from growing, but that's all.
The stronger drug, Adovart iirc, is what they use to make it get
smaller, but it has side effects on some people.

But recently, I had blood in my urine and the urologist sent a scope
up my urethra to look inside my bladder, then on another day something
else to do a bladder biopsy (negative), and 10 days after that, a
laser to zap a bladder stone, almost as big as a golf ball. .

Smile...be happy that bugger was not in your kidney )

I may have had kdiney stones. I'm not sure.

Between the 2nd and last procedure I had 3 different catheters, and
after the last procedure, abother thicker, stiffer one with a bigger
channel inside, to allow any remaining little particles from the
stone to come out. Everything is fine now, no more blood, except now
I almost always pee in 2 or 3 streams going in all directions and it
makes a mess if I'm standing up.

The larger urinary catheters might make strong men faint on seeing one
in place ) There is a balloon at the top that is inflated after
insertion and which holds the catheter in place (unless you have
dementia and want to just yank the thing out...happens regularly).

I read that that could damage the exit of the bladder.

Well, the first two of mine fell out on theirs own. After the 2nd
procedure, the biopsy, I couldn't urinate at all, and after about 16
hours, I went to the emergency room Sat. morning around 2AM. They
put me in the hospital. Around 7 Sunday morning, the catheter fell
out and neither the nurse nor some other person who came around could
figure out why. The non-nurse said that there were some new
catheters without balloons, and the nurse nodded. But later the
urologist said that the sharp corners on the stone had punctured the
balloon. (there are catheters without balloons, but they are meant
for sel-insiertion and only for a few minutes, to urinate, and then
take it out.) The nurse threw the catheter in the trash and I dug it
out and looked at it, and didn't notice even a punctured balloon, but
I didn't know yet that there were balloons and didn't look for one,
and a) it might have been like a belt around the top, and b) I told
the urologist about this, so he would look for any latex scraps in my
bladder. He nodded.

The urologist also told me over the phone how to remove the catheter,
by using scissors to cut off the stub tube that they had attached a
water-filled syringe to, to inflate the balloon. I did that with the
last two of them, and after the (clean) water sprayed ou, through the
little cut I made at first, the catheter fell out a minute later.

Balloon is usually 5 cc or 30 cc...30cc the norm after prostate removal.

Did the doc look up there after the last catheter removal to be sure no
stone fragments remain?

No. I went to the office but he just talked to me.

In response to this problem, the doctor thought I need a smaller
prostate, either with a stronger drug or a laser-sapping (this time
the prostate itself, not the bladder stone (which is gone).

But the prostate is several inches from the opening, at the end.
Wouldn't any turbulence caused by a narrow opening due to a enlarged
prostate(*) even itself out before the exit point, even if we
understated the distance as 3 or 2 inches), and doesn't that mean the
obstruction is quite close to the opening?????

This is the only present problem? If so, hold on and see how things go.
Most surgeons will sell stuff the patient is willing to buy and the
stuff is often not the "cure".

It's been 11 weeks, and there's been no change in the last 6 to 10
weeks. I have an appointment with him in December, 6 or 7 months
after the last time I saw him. He didn't seem eager to do anything
else, but that would depend on my symptoms. The need to urinate
more frequently may be coming back. It's hard to say. When I'm ou
for a long time, which is not so often, I can go 5 hours or the last
time 4, without a bahroom, but when I'm home, I go much more often,
upt to once an hour. Better than the every 10 minutes it was the
week before the 2nd procedure

Do read up on prostate problems in
legitimate scientific/medical resources. One complication of prostate
removal is incontinence...don't know the statistics, but it is something
I would not want to risk for some other minor issue. (Sitting down is
better than leaking all the time...I know because I'm not a prostate owner)

Yes, I know you'r e not. Perhaps you can get one on ebay.

And not where the prostate is. After all, I was peeing normally
until the day before the 2nd procedure, and even though the outside
catheter surface is smooth, I can't help thinking it messed something
up near the exit point, maybe when one of the four were coming out.

You have had a lot of traffic up the old tube...swelling, inflammation,
possibly some stretching. Unless there is some medical reason not to do
so, drink a lot of fluids, including cranberry juice.

*(which is probably no more enlarged than it was 14 days earlier,
before the 2nd procuedure) )


Background. The tube leading to the opening is called the urethra,
but the tube ends (or starts) where the prostate is, and from there up
to the bladder, there is no tube just a space made by the lobes of the
prostate. At least this is approximately right, and it's why it's
possible to zap the prostate with a laser without cutting through the
urethra, or needing to sew it back up.

Well, you are close....the urethra goes from the bladder to the outlet
(you know where that is). The prostate encircles the urethra at the
base of the bladder (think "doughnut hole")

Are you sure? The urologist said specifically that the urethra starts
just below the prostate, and that is why the urethra is not in the way
for any laser "zapping",( my word. I forget what word he used. And I
don't think he referred to "lobes" of the prostate.)

; that's why the plumbing
doesn't work so well when the prostate enlarges. Can't do transurethral
prostate removal without nipping through that section of the urethra....



I don't mind posted replies, in fact they are better because other
people reply to them,, but if anyone wants to email, remove the extra
r's after onlooker. There should be only one.

On 7/7/2012 9:18 PM, Onlooker wrote:
I hope this isn't too far OT. * It is about hydraulics and I think
that's of interest here.


I think instead of a doctor, you need to see a rabbi...

:-)

Mark

I don't have a lot of experience in this department. Decided to read the
mail, and comment when I could agree with someone. This is such a moment.
Peter has the right idea.

I'm suspecting urethra damage, near the exit point.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Peter" wrote in message
...

I think your instincts are good. To me, it sounds more like a "nozzle"
problem much closer to the outside world and not at all like a
restricted flow problem originating more proximally in the prostatic
urethra. Maybe there's a small tag of skin or scar tissue (possibly
produced from stone fragment or instrument trauma) either very close to
the outside world or even at the meatus that is producing the spray. If
your prostate were enlarged and constricting the urethra, it would
restrict urine flow, which would likely reduce flow turbulence. In
fact, I wonder if having prostatic surgery would exacerbate your
symptoms by increasing turbulance. As someone else has mentioned, there
are potentially unpleasant and undesirable side effects that can happen
with prostate surgery and personally, I'd rather live with a spray
problem than have prostatic surgery on account of that particular
symptom alone. If you can't get a logical, clear explanation from your
urologist how restricted urine flow from an enlarged prostate causes
your symptom, time to get a second opinion.

On 7/8/2012 6:05 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I don't have a lot of experience in this department. Decided to read the
mail, and comment when I could agree with someone. This is such a moment.
Peter has the right idea.

I'm suspecting urethra damage, near the exit point.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Peter" wrote in message
...

I think your instincts are good. To me, it sounds more like a "nozzle"
problem much closer to the outside world and not at all like a
restricted flow problem originating more proximally in the prostatic
urethra. Maybe there's a small tag of skin or scar tissue (possibly
produced from stone fragment or instrument trauma) either very close to
the outside world or even at the meatus that is producing the spray. If
your prostate were enlarged and constricting the urethra, it would
restrict urine flow, which would likely reduce flow turbulence. In
fact, I wonder if having prostatic surgery would exacerbate your
symptoms by increasing turbulance. As someone else has mentioned, there
are potentially unpleasant and undesirable side effects that can happen
with prostate surgery and personally, I'd rather live with a spray
problem than have prostatic surgery on account of that particular
symptom alone. If you can't get a logical, clear explanation from your
urologist how restricted urine flow from an enlarged prostate causes
your symptom, time to get a second opinion.



Most specialists have nurses working in their offices, and oftentimes
the nurse is more accessible. The OP should make a phone call, ask for
the nurse, and pose the question. If no satisfactory answer, then I'd
try to get a second opinion from a reliable doc...some family docs will
address questions like that more readily than specialists. Anyone
facing non-emergency procedures should try to research the problem,
treatment options, complications, etc. There is so much info available
on the net, a basic anatomy lesson is a good idea as well.

On Jul 7, 6:18*pm, Onlooker wrote:
I hope this isn't too far OT. * It is about hydraulics and I think
that's of interest here.

But it's about male urine hydraulics. * And I need some advice before
I try to talk to the doctor again. * I've learned one needs to be
informed when talking to a doctor.

Until 2 months ago, I could pee normally, one single stream going just
where I pointed it, except once every 6 months or so, the sides of the
opening were stuck together for a minute or so, but that was so rare
it was no problem.

But recently, *I had blood in my urine and the urologist sent a scope
up my urethra to look inside my bladder, then on another day something
else to do a bladder biopsy (negative), and 10 days after that, a
laser to zap a bladder stone, almost as big as a golf ball. .

Between the 2nd and last procedure I had 3 different catheters, and
after the last procedure, abother thicker, stiffer one with a bigger
channel inside, to allow any remaining *little particles from the
stone to come out. * Everything is fine now, no more blood, except now
I almost always pee in 2 or 3 streams going in all directions and it
makes a mess if I'm standing up.

In response to this problem, the doctor thought I need a smaller
prostate, either with a stronger drug or a laser-sapping (this time
the prostate itself, not the bladder stone (which is gone).

But the prostate is several inches from the opening, at the end.
Wouldn't any turbulence caused by a narrow opening due to a enlarged
prostate(*) even itself out before the exit point, *even if we
understated the distance as 3 or 2 inches), and doesn't that mean the
obstruction is quite close to the opening?????

*And not where the prostate is. * After all, I was peeing normally
until the day before the 2nd procedure, and even though the outside
catheter surface is smooth, I can't help thinking it messed something
up near the exit point, maybe when one of the four were coming out.

*(which is probably no more enlarged than it was 14 days earlier,
before the 2nd procuedure) )

Background. *The tube leading to the opening is called the urethra,
but the tube ends (or starts) where the prostate is, and from there up
to the bladder, there is no tube just a space made by the lobes of the
prostate. * At least this is approximately right, and it's why it's
possible to zap the prostate with a laser without cutting through the
urethra, or needing to sew it back up.

I don't mind posted replies, in fact they are better because other
people reply to them,, but if anyone wants to email, remove the extra
r's after onlooker. *There should be only one.

OP-

I was inclined to point the finger at "nozzle problems" but this
exerpt seems to indicate other issues as well.
Be very certain of the diagonsis before letting anyone mess with the
prostate.

I would have figured that the flow would sort itself out if the
disruption tool place at the prostate.
Be careful, lots of docs suck at diagnosis.
cheers
Bob


http://en.allexperts.com/q/Urology-M...w-sediment.htm

Splitting of the urinary stream is very common. It occurs when there
exists an area of relative narrowing of the urinary canal (urethra).
This may occur anywhere in the urethra from the neck of the bladder to
the opening of the urethra at the end of the penis (meatus). The most
common causes are an enlarged or swollen prostate gland, urethral
strictures or meatal stenosis. Another frequent cause is in those men
who remove their penis through the unzippered fly, void and then put
the penis back. Often, the space is not adequate for total free flow
as the lower (bottom) edge of the fly can actually push on the urethra
causing urine to be trapped. This phenomenon can be totally avoided
by dropping your trousers and then urinating in the standing or
sitting position. When the urinary bladder is full (such as from a
diuretic or delaying the desire to void) or if one voluntarily strains
to void, the pressure of the stream can be increased and the stream is
often more full and forceful without the split.

To determine the etiology and potential seriousness of a split stream
requires consultation with a urologist. A urinalysis, observation of
the voided stream and uroflowmetrometry (to determine if the force of
the stream is normal) are generally done. If there is a question
about the ability of the bladder to empty properly, a determination of
the residual urine can be done either by a bladder ultrasound or
catheterization. Sometimes, a cystoscopic examination is also
necessary to determine the cause of the problem. Many patients with
split streams require no specific treatment. However, significant
restriction of the urine flow, residual urine, or infection are
indications for treatment. The latter, of course, depends on the
underlying etiology.

This is one such moment, where a person should choose words, very carefully.
You mean that lots of doctors suck at penis diagnosis? I'm not sure the
doctors would consider that a professional description to put on their
letterhead.

"Dr. Boner; we suck at penis diagnosis."
"Pecker problems? Be seen at Urethra, Prostate, and Boehner. We suck at
diagnosis."

Hmm. Not sure I'd want to visit that office. Too easy to get screwed.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"DD_BobK" wrote in message
...

Be careful, lots of docs suck at diagnosis.
cheers
Bob

That's encouraging, a split stream may be temporary interference from
zipper. Much cheaper than a prostate removal, or other surgery. Easier to
treat, also. Lower copayment.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"DD_BobK" wrote in message
news:25dc22c0-bf6b-4590-9ddf-

Be careful, lots of docs suck at diagnosis.
cheers
Bob


http://en.allexperts.com/q/Urology-M...w-sediment.htm

Splitting of the urinary stream is very common. It occurs when there
exists an area of relative narrowing of the urinary canal (urethra).
This may occur anywhere in the urethra from the neck of the bladder to
the opening of the urethra at the end of the penis (meatus). The most
common causes are an enlarged or swollen prostate gland, urethral
strictures or meatal stenosis. Another frequent cause is in those men
who remove their penis through the unzippered fly, void and then put
the penis back. Often, the space is not adequate for total free flow
as the lower (bottom) edge of the fly can actually push on the urethra
causing urine to be trapped. This phenomenon can be totally avoided
by dropping your trousers and then urinating in the standing or
sitting position. When the urinary bladder is full (such as from a
diuretic or delaying the desire to void) or if one voluntarily strains
to void, the pressure of the stream can be increased and the stream is
often more full and forceful without the split.

To determine the etiology and potential seriousness of a split stream
requires consultation with a urologist. A urinalysis, observation of
the voided stream and uroflowmetrometry (to determine if the force of
the stream is normal) are generally done. If there is a question
about the ability of the bladder to empty properly, a determination of
the residual urine can be done either by a bladder ultrasound or
catheterization. Sometimes, a cystoscopic examination is also
necessary to determine the cause of the problem. Many patients with
split streams require no specific treatment. However, significant
restriction of the urine flow, residual urine, or infection are
indications for treatment. The latter, of course, depends on the
underlying etiology.

I'm remembering, a year or so when I had a pinched nerve in my arm. A friend
of mine, (an orthopedic surgeon) suggested I take ibuprophen, several times
a day for several days. The thought being that ibu has anti-inflamtory
properties. Seemed to help. It also helped to remove the source of the
trouble, quit pinching the nerve.

A man with a localized inflamation of tissue such as urethra wall might get
some relief of inflmation, using ibuprophen for several days.

Of course, consult your own doctor, and check with the MD who knows you
personally, and knows what medications you presently take. I am neither a
doctor, nor have I met the OP in person.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Onlooker" wrote in message
news
Between the 2nd and last procedure I had 3 different catheters, and
after the last procedure, abother thicker, stiffer one with a bigger
channel inside, to allow any remaining little particles from the
stone to come out. Everything is fine now, no more blood, except now
I almost always pee in 2 or 3 streams going in all directions and it
makes a mess if I'm standing up.

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 21:18:51 -0400, Onlooker
wrote:

I hope this isn't too far OT. It is about hydraulics and I think
that's of interest here.

But it's about male urine hydraulics. And I need some advice before
I try to talk to the doctor again. I've learned one needs to be
informed when talking to a doctor.

Until 2 months ago, I could pee normally, one single stream going just
where I pointed it, except once every 6 months or so, the sides of the
opening were stuck together for a minute or so, but that was so rare
it was no problem.

But recently, I had blood in my urine and the urologist sent a scope
up my urethra to look inside my bladder, then on another day something
else to do a bladder biopsy (negative), and 10 days after that, a
laser to zap a bladder stone, almost as big as a golf ball. .

I'm not sure why this is posted to alt.home.repair, but since it's
posted, why are you (OP) going thru all the pain an cost of having a
doctor do surgery? All you need is a homosexual male who will satisfy
you, and who can suck really hard. Have him suck your cock really hard
and that stone will come right out. He'll spit it against the wall, and
you and he can live a happy life together. Finding a gay guy is not all
that difficult, just go to any gay bar and expose your weiner. You'll
get more hits than google.

On Mon, 9 Jul 2012 07:36:22 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I'm remembering, a year or so when I had a pinched nerve in my arm. A friend
of mine, (an orthopedic surgeon) suggested I take ibuprophen, several times
a day for several days. The thought being that ibu has anti-inflamtory
properties. Seemed to help. It also helped to remove the source of the
trouble, quit pinching the nerve.

A man with a localized inflamation of tissue such as urethra wall might get
some relief of inflmation, using ibuprophen for several days.

Of course, consult your own doctor, and check with the MD who knows you
personally, and knows what medications you presently take.

All I take is tamsulosin (Flomax) and Vitamin D. So I'm doing
pretty well for 65. I think my older brother was t aking nothing
when he was my age.

I was prescribed the tamsulosin 16 months ago, but ended up not taking
it after 2 months, so at the biopsy this April, the anesthesiologist
asked me what drugs I was taking and I didn't think Vitamin D counted
and I said "Nnothing", and what I was allergic to, and I said
"Nothing", and he said I was the first patient he ever had like that.


Thanks to all who gave helpful advice.

The phrase "scar tissue" was something I should have thought of but
didn't. I will wai a little longer maybe until the December
appointment, , and ask him again while using the words scar tissue.

I will read some more, and by coincidence, I just talked to a guy who
has the same internist as I and a urologist who gave him the same
choice, between laser zapping and Adovart. He has to decide sooner
than I do.


I am neither a
doctor, nor have I met the OP in person.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in
:

I agree that most likely there is some scar tissue near the orifice that
gives the OP his trouble.

I am now on 2 tamsulosin/day plus 1 finasteride (I think Proscar is a
cousin of Avodart. So far so good, and the added benefit is support for
suffering Big Pharma ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

You do sound exceptional, and in a good way. One friend of mine takes only
aspirin for aches, and nothing else. Wish I could do that.

Idle thought. I wonder if Flomax leads to bladder stones? That would be
ironic, if the med you take for prostate, gives bladder problems.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message
...


All I take is tamsulosin (Flomax) and Vitamin D. So I'm doing
pretty well for 65. I think my older brother was t aking nothing
when he was my age.

I was prescribed the tamsulosin 16 months ago, but ended up not taking
it after 2 months, so at the biopsy this April, the anesthesiologist
asked me what drugs I was taking and I didn't think Vitamin D counted
and I said "Nnothing", and what I was allergic to, and I said
"Nothing", and he said I was the first patient he ever had like that.


Thanks to all who gave helpful advice.

The phrase "scar tissue" was something I should have thought of but
didn't. I will wai a little longer maybe until the December
appointment, , and ask him again while using the words scar tissue.

I will read some more, and by coincidence, I just talked to a guy who
has the same internist as I and a urologist who gave him the same
choice, between laser zapping and Adovart. He has to decide sooner
than I do.

On Mon, 9 Jul 2012 19:17:51 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:



Did you all know they did surgery for blader stones since 2800 years
ago? 2800. Successful surgery, at least some of the time.
Hippocrates mentions it in his oath, and doctors promised in his day
to refer such surgery to a specialist. IIRC one of the speciallists
had done this 50 or 100 times.

And things were done pretty much the same way until about 40 years
ago, when ultrasound was invented. For stone breakup, not in place
of x-rays, which I mention below.

So if theis were 42 years ago, it would have been abdominal surgery.


(See Nominn, I've been reading for a long time, but it's hard to find
stuff about my question. I really found nothing that addressed the
specific quesiton. That's why I asked here.


You do sound exceptional, and in a good way. One friend of mine takes only
aspirin for aches, and nothing else. Wish I could do that.

Idle thought. I wonder if Flomax leads to bladder stones?

No evidence of that here. I only took the generic flomax two months
of spring 2011, and then after the stone was zapped.

But the BPH constricted the urine flow, and probably left urine in my
bladder all the time, and the urine has dissolved or floating solids
that precipitate (if they are dissolved) or (if they are only
floating) fall out. And that makes the stone.

There have a special little ultrasound machine that views and then
calculates how much urine is in one's bladder -- they used it almost
every time I went to his office --, and the doctor was happy that the
last time there was basically nothing left in it after I peed. I
think the maxium a 5'9" man can hold is 800 to 1000 ml, and when it
gets to 1000, he's in pain and really needs a catheter. Numbers are
appoximate.

I should have seen this coming. During the period when I peed every
30 or 60 minutes but vety little, I couldn't bring myself to flush the
toilet every time (waste of water) and what happened is tan or dark
yelowishl stuff stuck to the bowl below the water line that wouldn't
come off with reguar toilelt bowl cleaner or a brush. I had to use
acid-based toilet bowl cleaner, let it sit for 10 minutes, and apply
it several times in a row one time when the toilet got bad. Whatever
stuck to the toilet bowl is what made the stone in my bladder I think.

Home repair question: I thought the acid would pit the toilet making
it even harder to clean all the time. Do you think it would do
that? Hint: When clean, I felt the surface with my finger and it
didn't feel pitted at all.


BTW, the doctor all but apologized for not seeing the stone April of
2011. He might have actually apologized but he wasn't sure if he
missed it (which he found hard to believe(*) or if it grew (a lot?)
faster than normal. In the latter case he had nothing to apologize
for.

* He had taken pictures of some bloody looking areas in my bladder,
which must have been where the blood came from. He didn't give me a
copy of those, but he gave me four pictures of my bladder stone. He
put a golf ball next to it so I could tell how big it was. (Just
kidding. I can't tell how big it was, but I believe him. It's actually
hard to tel what the pictures are of)

That would be
ironic, if the med you take for prostate, gives bladder problems.

IIRC, I saw something like that on the news in the last two weeks, No
I read it. I remember. There are two kinds of prostate cancer, slow
growing which almost everyone with prostate cancer has and can take 20
or 30 or more? years to kill you and you're usually dead from someting
else first, and fast growing. IIRC, the pill that treats the slow
growing cancer makes the fast growing worse. Something like that.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message
.. .


All I take is tamsulosin (Flomax) and Vitamin D. So I'm doing
pretty well for 65. I think my older brother was t aking nothing
when he was my age.

I was prescribed the tamsulosin 16 months ago, but ended up not taking
it after 2 months, so at the biopsy this April, the anesthesiologist
asked me what drugs I was taking and I didn't think Vitamin D counted
and I said "Nnothing", and what I was allergic to, and I said
"Nothing", and he said I was the first patient he ever had like that.


Thanks to all who gave helpful advice.

The phrase "scar tissue" was something I should have thought of but
didn't. I will wai a little longer maybe until the December
appointment, , and ask him again while using the words scar tissue.

I will read some more, and by coincidence, I just talked to a guy who
has the same internist as I and a urologist who gave him the same
choice, between laser zapping and Adovart. He has to decide sooner
than I do.

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 14:36:29 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 07:59:48 -0400, Norminn
wrote:



Well, you are close....the urethra goes from the bladder to the outlet
(you know where that is). The prostate encircles the urethra at the
base of the bladder (think "doughnut hole")

Are you sure? The urologist said specifically that the urethra starts
just below the prostate, and that is why the urethra is not in the way
for any laser "zapping",( my word. I forget what word he used. And I
don't think he referred to "lobes" of the prostate.)


Probably what he meant was that the laser beam will not be aimed at
the urethra only area because the prostate is farther back. He'll
still have to run the equipment up the urethra to get it to the site.

On Sun, 08 Jul 2012 12:16:45 -0400, Peter wrote:

On 7/7/2012 9:18 PM, Onlooker wrote:
I hope this isn't too far OT. It is about hydraulics and I think
that's of interest here.

But it's about male urine hydraulics. And I need some advice before
I try to talk to the doctor again. I've learned one needs to be
informed when talking to a doctor.

Until 2 months ago, I could pee normally, one single stream going just
where I pointed it, except once every 6 months or so, the sides of the
opening were stuck together for a minute or so, but that was so rare
it was no problem.

But recently, I had blood in my urine and the urologist sent a scope
up my urethra to look inside my bladder, then on another day something
else to do a bladder biopsy (negative), and 10 days after that, a
laser to zap a bladder stone, almost as big as a golf ball. .

Between the 2nd and last procedure I had 3 different catheters, and
after the last procedure, abother thicker, stiffer one with a bigger
channel inside, to allow any remaining little particles from the
stone to come out. Everything is fine now, no more blood, except now
I almost always pee in 2 or 3 streams going in all directions and it
makes a mess if I'm standing up.

In response to this problem, the doctor thought I need a smaller
prostate, either with a stronger drug or a laser-sapping (this time
the prostate itself, not the bladder stone (which is gone).

But the prostate is several inches from the opening, at the end.
Wouldn't any turbulence caused by a narrow opening due to a enlarged
prostate(*) even itself out before the exit point, even if we
understated the distance as 3 or 2 inches), and doesn't that mean the
obstruction is quite close to the opening?????

And not where the prostate is. After all, I was peeing normally
until the day before the 2nd procedure, and even though the outside
catheter surface is smooth, I can't help thinking it messed something
up near the exit point, maybe when one of the four were coming out.

*(which is probably no more enlarged than it was 14 days earlier,
before the 2nd procuedure) )


Background. The tube leading to the opening is called the urethra,
but the tube ends (or starts) where the prostate is, and from there up
to the bladder, there is no tube just a space made by the lobes of the
prostate. At least this is approximately right, and it's why it's
possible to zap the prostate with a laser without cutting through the
urethra, or needing to sew it back up.



I don't mind posted replies, in fact they are better because other
people reply to them,, but if anyone wants to email, remove the extra
r's after onlooker. There should be only one.


I think your instincts are good. To me, it sounds more like a "nozzle"
problem much closer to the outside world and not at all like a
restricted flow problem originating more proximally in the prostatic
urethra. Maybe there's a small tag of skin or scar tissue (possibly
produced from stone fragment or instrument trauma) either very close to
the outside world or even at the meatus that is producing the spray. If
your prostate were enlarged and constricting the urethra, it would
restrict urine flow, which would likely reduce flow turbulence. In
fact, I wonder if having prostatic surgery would exacerbate your
symptoms by increasing turbulance. As someone else has mentioned, there
are potentially unpleasant and undesirable side effects that can happen
with prostate surgery and personally, I'd rather live with a spray
problem than have prostatic surgery on account of that particular
symptom alone. If you can't get a logical, clear explanation from your
urologist how restricted urine flow from an enlarged prostate causes
your symptom, time to get a second opinion.


Any reduced flow means reduced pressure. Reduced pressure means its
more likely that any stuck parts of the nozzle will stay partially
stuck while peeing leading to the spray. Reduced pressure also simply
changes how the stream exits the nozzle which can also produce spray.
Put a nozzle on a garden hose and notice how the spray pattern changes
as you slowly open the faucet and change the effective pressure at the
nozzle.

If it was me I would not have more procedures done if the only problem
was the spray. The spray might be "fixable" by manually manipulating
the nozzle to break up any "stuck" parts before starting the flow.
It's relatively uncommon but there are potential side effects from the
roto-rooter procedure such as incontinence and partial impotence.

Your logic does make sense and I'd test it by waiting and maybe taking a prostate supplement while you wait. If it doesn’t get better with the supplement and or by healing, you can ask the doctor what it's all about and how an enlarged prostate could cause this kind of symptom. While you have time, read Super Beta Prostate supplement reviews and see if it's right for you..
http://www.buysuperbetaprostate.com/...-prostate.aspx