Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

If the owner needs to start from scratch, can the existing
"everything" be rototilled under or do all of the weeds (and grass?)
have to be killed off first?

I might as well mention the soil condition. I'm pretty sure that the
soil could use some work, but the owner is on a very limited budget
and probably can't afford to have 30' x 50' x 3" of top soil brought
in. I can get the soil tested for her so we know what we're up
against.

I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

What are her options? Thanks!

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:46:22 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

If the owner needs to start from scratch, can the existing
"everything" be rototilled under or do all of the weeds (and grass?)
have to be killed off first?

I might as well mention the soil condition. I'm pretty sure that the
soil could use some work, but the owner is on a very limited budget
and probably can't afford to have 30' x 50' x 3" of top soil brought
in. I can get the soil tested for her so we know what we're up
against.

I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

What are her options? Thanks!


What is your time frame? Do you know what type grass and soil?
If you need it by next week seriously, I'd say kill everything and lay
sod on top but that would cost.

In general without knowing the answers above, I think the answer is
yes but it will take most of this season or into next year. My dad
had a St Augustine lawn and tho I thought he was crazy, once he mowed
it to within a 1/2" of the ground. It looked horrible when first cut.
I don't remember now but I think he watered it and fertilized it after
that and by the following year, he had a gorgeous lawn.

On 6/11/2012 3:46 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Roughly a postage stamp...

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

Assuming the grass variety that is there is something desirable, sure.

If the owner needs to start from scratch, can the existing
"everything" be rototilled under or do all of the weeds (and grass?)
have to be killed off first?

No point in that drastic--and it'll still take the same problem getting
fixed that are the problems in the existing...

I might as well mention the soil condition. I'm pretty sure that the
soil could use some work, but the owner is on a very limited budget
and probably can't afford to have 30' x 50' x 3" of top soil brought
in. I can get the soil tested for her so we know what we're up
against.

No point in doing anything until this is done and done for various areas
to check.

The money spent on any product until you have this done is just throwing
money at it w/o any idea whether it will/won't solve the problem.

Find the local County Extension office--they'll have all kinds of advice
and probably access to soil testing as well apropos to the local conditions.

--


I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

What are her options? Thanks!

On Jun 11, 5:52*pm, dpb wrote:
On 6/11/2012 3:46 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Roughly a postage stamp...

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

Assuming the grass variety that is there is something desirable, sure.

If the owner needs to start from scratch, can the existing
"everything" be rototilled under or do all of the weeds *(and grass?)
have to be killed off first?

No point in that drastic--and it'll still take the same problem getting
fixed that are the problems in the existing...

I might as well mention the soil condition. I'm pretty sure that the
soil could use some work, but the owner is on a very limited budget
and probably can't afford to have 30' x 50' x 3" of top soil brought
in. I can get the soil tested for her so we know what we're up
against.

No point in doing anything until this is done and done for various areas
to check.

The money spent on any product until you have this done is just throwing
money at it w/o any idea whether it will/won't solve the problem.

Find the local County Extension office--they'll have all kinds of advice
and probably access to soil testing as well apropos to the local conditions.

--



I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

What are her options? Thanks!

is a perfect lawn really necessary?

I no longer use harsh chemicals on my lawn, just some fertilizer.....

if the lawn is green i am happy

On 6/11/2012 5:39 PM, bob haller wrote:
....

is a perfect lawn really necessary?
....

That's up to OP or the neighbor lady/person to decide, not me...

--

On 6/11/2012 4:46 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

If the owner needs to start from scratch, can the existing
"everything" be rototilled under or do all of the weeds (and grass?)
have to be killed off first?

I might as well mention the soil condition. I'm pretty sure that the
soil could use some work, but the owner is on a very limited budget
and probably can't afford to have 30' x 50' x 3" of top soil brought
in. I can get the soil tested for her so we know what we're up
against.

I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

What are her options? Thanks!


I use it now and then but spot spraying usually works better.

Also depends on weed and things like crabgrass are best left to a
pre-emergent herbicide.

Over seeding is good and works best in the fall.

Unless you tear it up and start from scratch, this is not a job that can
just be done overnight.

On 6/11/2012 6:17 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:48:42 -0500, wrote:
....

Weed and feed is bull****.

http://www.austintexas.gov/department/weed-feed

Pull your weeds or mow them.
SOME weeds pretty well need a killer, just like some crooks need to
be shot. Pulling them, like jailing a crook, just lets him come back
nastier than he started.

Well, the link doesn't say to never use a herbicide; it just is pushing
to not use the combination products. Which ain't a bad idea; as they
say it's rare the time to treat and fertilize coincide and also not
often really need the whole yard--plus they're more expensive than
herbicide would be as an additional separate product w/ the same amount
of fertilizer.

The only one that really makes much sense imo is the crabgrass
pre-emergent if have a stand of it; it is about the only practical
solution there (altho still may be better off w/ just the treatment w/o
the fertilizer).

I don't recall ever fertilizing a lawn--it needs mowing enough as is.

I do pull a lot (being in SW KS on farm where the tumbleweeds and
everything else blows all winter, get reseeded regularly) but there's no
way can possibly do the full yard that way. Spent a goodly part of
today doing thistle and mowing and while can see some progress there's
more than could do if spent all day every day the rest of the summer to
go...

--

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:25:43 -0400, Frank
wrote:

On 6/11/2012 4:46 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

If the owner needs to start from scratch, can the existing
"everything" be rototilled under or do all of the weeds (and grass?)
have to be killed off first?

I might as well mention the soil condition. I'm pretty sure that the
soil could use some work, but the owner is on a very limited budget
and probably can't afford to have 30' x 50' x 3" of top soil brought
in. I can get the soil tested for her so we know what we're up
against.

I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

What are her options? Thanks!


I use it now and then but spot spraying usually works better.

Also depends on weed and things like crabgrass are best left to a
pre-emergent herbicide.

Over seeding is good and works best in the fall.

Unless you tear it up and start from scratch, this is not a job that can
just be done overnight.
And even tearing up and starting over requires some time and effort
to kill the weeds or they just come up again in the new lawn in a
couple of months.

On 6/11/2012 7:45 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:25:43 -0400, Frank
wrote:

On 6/11/2012 4:46 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

If the owner needs to start from scratch, can the existing
"everything" be rototilled under or do all of the weeds (and grass?)
have to be killed off first?

I might as well mention the soil condition. I'm pretty sure that the
soil could use some work, but the owner is on a very limited budget
and probably can't afford to have 30' x 50' x 3" of top soil brought
in. I can get the soil tested for her so we know what we're up
against.

I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

What are her options? Thanks!


I use it now and then but spot spraying usually works better.

Also depends on weed and things like crabgrass are best left to a
pre-emergent herbicide.

Over seeding is good and works best in the fall.

Unless you tear it up and start from scratch, this is not a job that can
just be done overnight.
And even tearing up and starting over requires some time and effort
to kill the weeds or they just come up again in the new lawn in a
couple of months.


Not to mention occasional bug and fungus problems.
I saw someone years ago plow up and put in a new lawn to lose it to sod
web worms.

I'm fighting an invader now, Japanese stilt grass.

On 6/11/2012 4:46 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

If the owner needs to start from scratch, can the existing
"everything" be rototilled under or do all of the weeds (and grass?)
have to be killed off first?

I might as well mention the soil condition. I'm pretty sure that the
soil could use some work, but the owner is on a very limited budget
and probably can't afford to have 30' x 50' x 3" of top soil brought
in. I can get the soil tested for her so we know what we're up
against.

I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

What are her options? Thanks!

Tilling it all under would be an insane amount of work, and fairly
pointless unless you were installing sod. Weed and feed's are usually
expensive and not great to apply together. Lotsa folks would disagree,
but feeding may not be all that important (depends how much more often
you want to mow). Broadleaf weed killers will get rid of lots of stuff;
MOST broadleaf weeds. Hubby and I rehabbed a really sadly neglected
Florida condo lawn, about 1/2 acre and about 1/4 dead bare. Had to
start with rebuilding the irrig. system. Then, when some leftover
broadleaf herbicide seemed to work miracles, we got really serious about
the lawn...not to make it picture perfect (we got close) but to make it
attractive and easier to maintain. Toughest fight is crabgrass and it's
relatives, which require PRE-emergent herbicides at right time (early
spring).

Once we applied b.l. herbicide, almost all the broadleaf weeds were
gone; you can count on existing seeds to grow more for 2-3 years, then
subside a lot. After our first appl., it only required spot treatment
occasionally. Good to mow before they produce seed, and mow higher,
especially during hot, dry weather. Proper mowing makes a huge
difference, as it prevents moisture depletion and weed growth.

Fertilizing? How fussy do ya' wanna' be? If the grass is a healthy
green, forget it. If the soil is hard clay, forget grass.

On 6/11/2012 6:43 PM, dpb wrote:
On 6/11/2012 6:17 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:48:42 -0500, wrote:
...

Weed and feed is bull****.

http://www.austintexas.gov/department/weed-feed

Pull your weeds or mow them.
SOME weeds pretty well need a killer, just like some crooks need to
be shot. Pulling them, like jailing a crook, just lets him come back
nastier than he started.

Well, the link doesn't say to never use a herbicide; it just is
pushing to not use the combination products. Which ain't a bad idea;
as they say it's rare the time to treat and fertilize coincide and
also not often really need the whole yard--plus they're more expensive
than herbicide would be as an additional separate product w/ the same
amount of fertilizer.

The only one that really makes much sense imo is the crabgrass
pre-emergent if have a stand of it; it is about the only practical
solution there (altho still may be better off w/ just the treatment
w/o the fertilizer).

I don't recall ever fertilizing a lawn--it needs mowing enough as is.

I do pull a lot (being in SW KS on farm where the tumbleweeds and
everything else blows all winter, get reseeded regularly) but there's
no way can possibly do the full yard that way. Spent a goodly part of
today doing thistle and mowing and while can see some progress there's
more than could do if spent all day every day the rest of the summer
to go...

--

The only thing I use now is Dillo Dirt. It has it's controversies but
the stuff works better than anything I've used to keep the lawn thick
and healthy. I do use a tiny bit of Amdro for the fire ants, but as
little as possible. It seems to work well too.

On 6/11/2012 6:56 PM, gonjah wrote:
On 6/11/2012 6:43 PM, dpb wrote:
....

I don't recall ever fertilizing a lawn--it needs mowing enough as is.
....


The only thing I use now is Dillo Dirt. It has it's controversies but
the stuff works better than anything I've used to keep the lawn thick
and healthy. I do use a tiny bit of Amdro for the fire ants, but as
little as possible. It seems to work well too.

Well, we use feedyard residual (but not in yards) ( ) so I don't have
any problem w/ that...

I still ain't a'gonna' fertilize the yard unless there's some very
unusual reason to do so.

Amdro rocks indeed, btw...

--

gonjah wrote:

Weed and feed is bull****.

http://www.austintexas.gov/department/weed-feed

Pull your weeds or mow them.

First, "bull****" is a pretty good fertilizer.

Second, the assertion to which you pointed us came from Austin. So did the
bumper sticker:

SOUTH AUSTIN
We're all here because
We're not all there

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:39:30 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote:

On Jun 11, 5:52*pm, dpb wrote:
On 6/11/2012 3:46 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Roughly a postage stamp...

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

Assuming the grass variety that is there is something desirable, sure.

If the owner needs to start from scratch, can the existing
"everything" be rototilled under or do all of the weeds *(and grass?)
have to be killed off first?

No point in that drastic--and it'll still take the same problem getting
fixed that are the problems in the existing...

I might as well mention the soil condition. I'm pretty sure that the
soil could use some work, but the owner is on a very limited budget
and probably can't afford to have 30' x 50' x 3" of top soil brought
in. I can get the soil tested for her so we know what we're up
against.

No point in doing anything until this is done and done for various areas
to check.

The money spent on any product until you have this done is just throwing
money at it w/o any idea whether it will/won't solve the problem.

Find the local County Extension office--they'll have all kinds of advice
and probably access to soil testing as well apropos to the local conditions.

--



I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

What are her options? Thanks!

is a perfect lawn really necessary?

I no longer use harsh chemicals on my lawn, just some fertilizer.....

if the lawn is green i am happy

I have two lawns, one has a beautiful Zoysia lawn and the new one a weed
field, with a little grass mixed in. I can tell you that the one with the
nice grass is 10x easier to take care of. Weeds grow like, well, weeds.

On 6/11/2012 5:48 PM, gonjah wrote:
....

Pull your weeds or mow them.

Follow-on to previous...I just used the lot calculator at
www.findlotsize.com to see just what we're mowing---what we call the
"inside" yard around the house that do water at least enough to keep
alive and treat as a lawn area is just under 1A. That's quite a lot of
hand weeding when the wind blows all the way from Austin to Saskatchewan
w/o a thing to stop it...

The machine lots and area around the barns, elevator, feedlots, etc.,
etc., that keep mowed for to not to have to fight the worst of the weeds
is about 14A. Outside that for fire break I keep another area mowed
short during dry weather that's about another 20A.

--

DerbyDad03 wrote:

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding
and diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

Yes.

You don't even need to over-feed.

But this really needs to start in April or May - not June.

Best results when the daytime temp's don't get above 80 or 85.

What are her options? Thanks!

I used to use liquid weed'n'feed (hose-end sprayer, about a gallon jug -
a little on the heavy side).

But that product is no longer available in my area.

Instead I use the concentrated weed killer (applied through hose-end
sprayer) and I put down a granular fertilizer (I mix several types). I
have a large - but irregular area, so I use a hand-held rotating
dispenser.

Crab-grass usually requires a non-standard herbicide.

You might also have grubs.

Bottom line: Liberal use of herbicide (weed killer) and fertilizer can
do amazing things - without requiring over-seeding or soil amendments.
You don't even need to go heavy on the weed-killer either. But water -
you can never have enough water.

Order of importance:

- fertilizer
- water
- weed killer
- insect killer
- top-soil (or other soil additive / amendments)

I never aerate either (that is a crock of **** money-making fraud).

I bag (and remove) the grass clippings when I cut my lawn.

On Jun 11, 7:12*pm, dpb wrote:
On 6/11/2012 5:39 PM, bob haller wrote:
...

is a perfect lawn really necessary?

...

That's up to OP or the neighbor lady/person to decide, not me...

--

Thanks.

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:46:22 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

Use a weed killer in the spring. Note that overseeding is a waste if
you put down a weed killer. Do the seeding in the fall and apply the
weed killer in the spring AFTER the seeds have sprouted and took hold.
You will get mediocre results with a weed and feed applied now, but it
will help keep them down a bit. If you have a lot of dandelions, best
to get spot spray for them.

In any case, it will take a few years, depending on condition.

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:39:30 -0700, bob haller wrote:
is a perfect lawn really necessary?

Can't stand dandelions, they just make it look ugly when they're seeding
- the rest of the weeds I don't mind though (well, other than thistles,
but we usually only get a couple of those a year which I just dig out).
I'm not sure if there's anything that will selectively kill dandelions
and nothing else, though...

On Jun 11, 5:52*pm, dpb wrote:
On 6/11/2012 3:46 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Roughly a postage stamp...

It's all relative. 30' x 50' is a heck of lot larger than the 3' x 4'
front lawn I had growing up in NYC. As a kid, cutting the front lawn
meant getting out the spring loaded hand held clippers and crawling
around for about 15 minutes.

The back yard was a different story. That took a few passes with the
reel mower followed by a trim around the edges with the hand held
clippers. Maybe 8' x 15'.



Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

Assuming the grass variety that is there is something desirable, sure.

If the owner needs to start from scratch, can the existing
"everything" be rototilled under or do all of the weeds *(and grass?)
have to be killed off first?

No point in that drastic--and it'll still take the same problem getting
fixed that are the problems in the existing...

I might as well mention the soil condition. I'm pretty sure that the
soil could use some work, but the owner is on a very limited budget
and probably can't afford to have 30' x 50' x 3" of top soil brought
in. I can get the soil tested for her so we know what we're up
against.

No point in doing anything until this is done and done for various areas
to check.

The money spent on any product until you have this done is just throwing
money at it w/o any idea whether it will/won't solve the problem.

Find the local County Extension office--they'll have all kinds of advice
and probably access to soil testing as well apropos to the local conditions.

--







I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

What are her options? Thanks!

On Jun 11, 4:46*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

If the owner needs to start from scratch, can the existing
"everything" be rototilled under or do all of the weeds *(and grass?)
have to be killed off first?

I might as well mention the soil condition. I'm pretty sure that the
soil could use some work, but the owner is on a very limited budget
and probably can't afford to have 30' x 50' x 3" of top soil brought
in. I can get the soil tested for her so we know what we're up
against.

I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

What are her options? Thanks!

Put on a couple bags of 19-19-19 ( triple 19). That's all you need. If
she can't afford to get the lawn looking perfect, she can't afford to
maintain it. Which means she don't need it anyway.

Hank ~~~~ would kick her to the curb :-)

On Jun 12, 5:30*am, Hank wrote:
On Jun 11, 4:46*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

If the owner needs to start from scratch, can the existing
"everything" be rototilled under or do all of the weeds *(and grass?)
have to be killed off first?

I might as well mention the soil condition. I'm pretty sure that the
soil could use some work, but the owner is on a very limited budget
and probably can't afford to have 30' x 50' x 3" of top soil brought
in. I can get the soil tested for her so we know what we're up
against.

I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

What are her options? Thanks!

Put on a couple bags of 19-19-19 ( triple 19). That's all you need. If
she can't afford to get the lawn looking perfect, she can't afford to
maintain it. Which means she don't need it anyway.

Hank ~~~~ would kick her to the curb :-)

fertilizng just causes faster lawn growth and more grass cutting.

besides putting a bunch of chemicals on the grass pollute the lawn for
the users like birds squirells etc

On Jun 12, 7:22*am, bob haller wrote:
On Jun 12, 5:30*am, Hank wrote:





On Jun 11, 4:46*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots..

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

If the owner needs to start from scratch, can the existing
"everything" be rototilled under or do all of the weeds *(and grass?)
have to be killed off first?

I might as well mention the soil condition. I'm pretty sure that the
soil could use some work, but the owner is on a very limited budget
and probably can't afford to have 30' x 50' x 3" of top soil brought
in. I can get the soil tested for her so we know what we're up
against.

I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

What are her options? Thanks!

Put on a couple bags of 19-19-19 ( triple 19). That's all you need. If
she can't afford to get the lawn looking perfect, she can't afford to
maintain it. Which means she don't need it anyway.

Hank ~~~~ would kick her to the curb :-)

fertilizng just causes faster lawn growth and more grass cutting.

besides putting a bunch of chemicals on the grass pollute the lawn for
the users like birds squirells etc- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Some of the first questions are what the final objective is
and what kind of grass and weeds are there now.
Do you want a perfectly uniform
lawn, that is of fine texture, nice uniform dark color,
disease resistant, early to green up, etc.? Or are
you OK with an average lawn? Is what's there now
mostly a grass that's consistent with the objective?
Or is it crap grass that's course, not uniform, etc?
Are the weeds typical broadleaf weeds that can
be easily killed with a selective herbicide? Or
are the weeds undesirable grasses and other
weeds that won't be killed with a general purpose
lawn weed killer?

If you have too many problems and want that
real nice lawn, that suggests renovating it by
killing the whole thing off and starting over.
Not that difficult to do, but is should be done
in Fall.

If you want to salvage and work with what's there,
then I would apply a product like WeedBGone using
a tank sprayer. That delivers the product right
to the weeds that need it. It's most effective and
uses less herbicide. In a couple weeks, you
repeat on the surving weeds. Once the weeds
are under control, it should only need to be done
couple times a season.

If the weeds are really everywhere so that even
with a tank sprayer you'd wind up spraying most
of it anyway, then I'd consider the WeedNFeed
product for the first time. But IMO, the spray is
more effective. Also, most important time to
ferilize is in the Fall, followed by Spring. That's
all I do.

And if you go with working with what's there,
the time to overseed would be in the Fall. Get
rid of the weeds now and the grass will fill in
some on it's own. Then in Fall, over-seed if
needed.

if you use a herbicide to kill everything a heavy rain can cause
erosion and wash away your topsoil if your on a slope....

during droughts at least weeds remain green while the grass goes brown

My two experiences with weed and feed is that yes, it does work, it just
takes a few applications. Pay special attention to directions, as the
temperature at application has a lot to do with the performance of the
product, as well as watering before and/or after so that it gets to the
right places. If it is how where you are now, you might have to wait for
cooler weather. I was well pleased by mine, and was negative before I tried
it. It does work.

Steve

On Monday, June 11, 2012 4:46:22 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

The homeowner's desires, and her budget, are mutually exclusive.

Patch in the bare spots and keep it mowed.

On 6/12/2012 12:18 PM, Steve B wrote:
My two experiences with weed and feed is that yes, it does work, it just
takes a few applications. Pay special attention to directions, as the
temperature at application has a lot to do with the performance of the
product, as well as watering before and/or after so that it gets to the
right places. If it is how where you are now, you might have to wait for
cooler weather. I was well pleased by mine, and was negative before I tried
it. It does work.

Steve



My vast lawn experience has been with St. Augustine grass, but some
practices apply to most lawn grass. The broadleaf weed product I used
was Ortho for southern lawns...it is taken up by the roots and to be
used when weeds are "actively growing". We would fertilize the lawn and
then use weed b' gone a week or two later to take fullest advantage of
the "actively growing" issue. The liquid in a hose-end sprayer also
allows using it only where and when needed....I like minimal chem. use
and min. waste of money. With decent lawn care, herbicides don't need
to be used a lot.

Also a good practice is slow-release nitrogen to avoid washing out in
the first heavy rain into waterways. The U of Fla has a great website
for lawn and garden, and delineates "high" or "medium" maintenance
practices...with SA grass, sandy soil and hot sun, one can see the
difference in the grass between 3 or 4 fert. applications per year, but
we weren't after perfection. Scott's have all kinds of maintence
programs built into their product selections, but they are high cost and
largely overused....check out the Scott's bag at the box store and buy
the cheapest product with same ingredients )

On Jun 12, 12:49*pm, wrote:
On Monday, June 11, 2012 4:46:22 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

The homeowner's desires, and her budget, are mutually exclusive.

....

Not if her desire is a not much more than a somewhat decent looking
yard that is not being taken over by broad leaf weeds, which is what
is happening now.

The amount of weeds has increased substantially since she overseeded
some large bare spots, especially where the plow dug up a section near
the street. Since seeding that area and tossing some extra seed here
and there, she's been watering twice a day to keep the new seed
moist.

The new seed in the larger bare spots is coming in nicely, but the
weeds (especially the broad leafs) are loving all that extra water
too.

I weeded a significant amount of broad leaf weeds from the perimeter
of the bare spot by the road and along the edge of the driveway where
water tends to collect. As I was pulling weeds I noticed how many
clumps of the broad leaf weeds, as well as other types of weeds, could
be found here and there through out the lawn.

That's when I started wondering what it would take eliminate the
various varieties of weeds and help the grass fill in, thus my
question about weed and feed products. I've never tried them since
SWMBO hasn't wanted them used on my yard because of the kids. I've
been able to manually keep up with the weeds so my lawn is at least OK
to look at, but she may be relenting on the use of chemicals now that
the kids are out of the house. I think she wants to wait and see how
the (not next door) neighbor's lawn turns out if I choose to go that
route.

Even if the neighbor would really like a Better Homes and Gardens
magazine cover lawn, she's realistic enough to know that she can't
have that for free.

....


Patch in the bare spots and keep it mowed.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

You'll never reach a perfect 100%.

A one time weed & feed can eliminate a lot of weeds. Or, you can just fertilize
it, then use a spot sprayer with weed-b-gon and only use the chemicals on the
weeds. The spot treatment is the way to go for maintainence. A quart of
concentrate will last you years. Just go out every couple weeds, and spray the
weeds a little. Or, carry the bottle when you mow. You're sure to see them then.

Rough up the surface of bare spots, and seed those.

Steve B wrote:
My two experiences with weed and feed is that yes, it does work, it
just takes a few applications. Pay special attention to directions,
as the temperature at application has a lot to do with the
performance of the product, as well as watering before and/or after
so that it gets to the right places. If it is how where you are now,
you might have to wait for cooler weather. I was well pleased by
mine, and was negative before I tried it. It does work.


I had some "freebie" weed&feed once. I took a jar, punched holes in the lids,
filled it with W&F, and taped it upside down to a stick. I'd walk around the
yard and sprinkle a little on each weed, on days when it wouldn't rain for a few
days. That worked very well, and that bag of W&F lasted years.

On 6/12/2012 3:03 PM, Bob F wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

You'll never reach a perfect 100%.

A one time weed& feed can eliminate a lot of weeds. Or, you can just fertilize
it, then use a spot sprayer with weed-b-gon and only use the chemicals on the
weeds. The spot treatment is the way to go for maintainence. A quart of
concentrate will last you years. Just go out every couple weeds, and spray the
weeds a little. Or, carry the bottle when you mow. You're sure to see them then.

Rough up the surface of bare spots, and seed those.



I agree...since the OP is helping a neighbor, I'd go for getting green
cover, getting a good mowing and watering plan going, fill in bare areas
with seed, and worry about the weeds "later" (however long after new
seeding the herbicide is safe to use. Once the lawn is growing well, a
one-time, all-over weed treatment will do amazing things. Liquid
broad-leave herbicide in either hose-end (for large areas) or sprayer
(for spot treatment) is easy to do, not time critical, and should help
the grass gradually fill in the weedy areas. Herbicides and fertilizer
are not normally good to apply during hot, dry weather.

On Tue, 12 Jun 2012 04:22:22 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On Jun 12, 5:30Â*am, Hank wrote:
On Jun 11, 4:46Â*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





Let's say a person has a lawn that is 75% grass, 20% a wide variety of
weeds, mostly clover but also dandelions (mostly pulled) and few
different types of broad leaf weeds (mostly pulled) and 5% bare
(mostly because hours were spent pulling patches of dandelions and
broad leaf weeds,

Let's say this lawn is 30' x 50'.

Let's say the owner would like 100% grass, 0% weeds and 0% bare spots.

Can this be done with a "weed-and-feed" product, some overseeding and
diligent watering or does the owner need to start from scratch?

If the owner needs to start from scratch, can the existing
"everything" be rototilled under or do all of the weeds Â*(and grass?)
have to be killed off first?

I might as well mention the soil condition. I'm pretty sure that the
soil could use some work, but the owner is on a very limited budget
and probably can't afford to have 30' x 50' x 3" of top soil brought
in. I can get the soil tested for her so we know what we're up
against.

I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

What are her options? Thanks!

Put on a couple bags of 19-19-19 ( triple 19). That's all you need. If
she can't afford to get the lawn looking perfect, she can't afford to
maintain it. Which means she don't need it anyway.

Hank ~~~~ would kick her to the curb :-)

fertilizng just causes faster lawn growth and more grass cutting.

besides putting a bunch of chemicals on the grass pollute the lawn for
the users like birds squirells etc
No, fertilizing makes for a healthier lawn - proper nutrients
encourage rhyzome growth which fills in the blank spaces from below so
weed seeds from above don't get a hold. Too much NITROGEN makes the
grass grow long and lush, and makes it use a lot of water - and need a
lot of mowing. The micro-nutrients, like iron etc, make the grass
stronger, more drought resistant, darker, denser, etc - which is a
GOOD thing.
The squirrels, birds, etc contribute their own fertilizer as well.

On Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:36:03 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

if you use a herbicide to kill everything a heavy rain can cause
erosion and wash away your topsoil if your on a slope....

during droughts at least weeds remain green while the grass goes brown
Even dead roots hold soil - and the "Rule of the Southern Ontario
Lawn" is "if it's green in August, it ain't grass!!!"

On Jun 12, 1:41*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jun 12, 12:49*pm, wrote:

On Monday, June 11, 2012 4:46:22 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

The homeowner's desires, and her budget, are mutually exclusive.

...

Not if her desire is a not much more than a somewhat decent looking
yard that is not being taken over by broad leaf weeds, which is what
is happening now.

The amount of weeds has increased substantially since she overseeded
some large bare spots, especially where the plow dug up a section near
the street. Since seeding that area and tossing some extra seed here
and there, she's been watering twice a day to keep the new seed
moist.

The new seed in the larger bare spots is coming in nicely, but the
weeds (especially the broad leafs) are loving all that extra water
too.

That's one reason why seeding in the Spring is not the best time
and now it's really nuts, unless you can't avoid it. If you seed in
the
Fall, there is a lot less competition from weeds, plus you have
declining temps, cool nights, that diminish the need for watering.




I weeded a significant amount of broad leaf weeds from the perimeter
of the bare spot by the road and along the edge of the driveway where
water tends to collect. As I was pulling weeds I noticed how many
clumps of the broad leaf weeds, as well as other types of weeds, could
be found here and there through out the lawn.

Pulling weeds disturbs the soil and provides a place for weeds
to grow. Combined with the watering, it's a vicous cycle.





That's when I started wondering what it would take eliminate the
various varieties of weeds and help the grass fill in, thus my
question about weed and feed products. I've never tried them since
SWMBO hasn't wanted them used on my yard because of the kids. I've
been able to manually keep up with the weeds so my lawn is at least OK
to look at, but she may be relenting on the use of chemicals now that
the kids are out of the house. I think she wants to wait and see how
the (not next door) neighbor's lawn turns out if I choose to go that
route.

I've always believed a tank sprayer is the most effective
because you can put the product right where it's needed
and avoid covering the whole lawn. But if the lawn is largely
covered with weeds, I would be OK with using a granular,
product.

On Jun 13, 9:41*am, "
wrote:
On Jun 12, 1:41*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Jun 12, 12:49*pm, wrote:

On Monday, June 11, 2012 4:46:22 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I can line up labor from various sources to help the owner out with
tilling, seeding, watering, etc. but asking for actual cash for top
soil and other rmajor treatments is not going to work.

The homeowner's desires, and her budget, are mutually exclusive.

...

Not if her desire is a not much more than a somewhat decent looking
yard that is not being taken over by broad leaf weeds, which is what
is happening now.

The amount of weeds has increased substantially since she overseeded
some large bare spots, especially where the plow dug up a section near
the street. Since seeding that area and tossing some extra seed here
and there, she's been watering twice a day to keep the new seed
moist.

The new seed in the larger bare spots is coming in nicely, but the
weeds (especially the broad leafs) are loving all that extra water
too.

That's one reason why seeding in the Spring is not the best time
and now it's really nuts, unless you can't avoid it. *If you seed in
the
Fall, there is a lot less competition from weeds, plus you have
declining temps, cool nights, that diminish the need for watering.



I weeded a significant amount of broad leaf weeds from the perimeter
of the bare spot by the road and along the edge of the driveway where
water tends to collect. As I was pulling weeds I noticed how many
clumps of the broad leaf weeds, as well as other types of weeds, could
be found here and there through out the lawn.

Pulling weeds disturbs the soil and provides a place for weeds
to grow. *Combined with the watering, it's a vicous cycle.



That's when I started wondering what it would take eliminate the
various varieties of weeds and help the grass fill in, thus my
question about weed and feed products. I've never tried them since
SWMBO hasn't wanted them used on my yard because of the kids. I've
been able to manually keep up with the weeds so my lawn is at least OK
to look at, but she may be relenting on the use of chemicals now that
the kids are out of the house. I think she wants to wait and see how
the (not next door) neighbor's lawn turns out if I choose to go that
route.

I've always believed a tank sprayer is the most effective
because you can put the product right where it's needed
and avoid covering the whole lawn. *But if the lawn is largely
covered with weeds, I would be OK with using a granular,
product.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My neighbor, part of whose front lawn touches mine, uses a granular
product at least once a year. He spread a white granular product about
a month ago.

The propety line is distinct between his lawn and mine. His section is
green, thick and essentially weed free. Mine, not so much.

I think that's one of the reasons SWMBO is relenting on the use of
chemicals. When you stand in front of my house, you would not know
that I don't own my whole front yard. However, because of the way the
property line runs, part of what looks like mine is actually my
neighbor's. We have this trianguler section of lush lawn (his) that
takes up about 10% with the other 90% being my less-than-lush, but not
bad looking, lawn. I think after all these years she'd like there to
be less of a line of demarcation so she's OK with adding something to
improve the look of our lawn.

When I mow, I mow his section so the whole front is even. When he mows
he only does his 10% section, which is understandable. SWMBO says I'm
nuts for mowing his section while I say the extra 10% doesn't bother
me and I'd rather it all be even (at least height wise) when I'm done.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jun 13, 9:41 am, "
wrote:

My neighbor, part of whose front lawn touches mine, uses a granular
product at least once a year. He spread a white granular product about
a month ago.

The propety line is distinct between his lawn and mine. His section is
green, thick and essentially weed free. Mine, not so much.

I think that's one of the reasons SWMBO is relenting on the use of
chemicals.

There are "natural" fertilizers. Not cheap, but they are available.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:21:26 -0700, "Bob F" wrote:

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jun 13, 9:41 am, "
wrote:

My neighbor, part of whose front lawn touches mine, uses a granular
product at least once a year. He spread a white granular product about
a month ago.

The propety line is distinct between his lawn and mine. His section is
green, thick and essentially weed free. Mine, not so much.

I think that's one of the reasons SWMBO is relenting on the use of
chemicals.

There are "natural" fertilizers. Not cheap, but they are available.

Yeah, there's a sucker (usually a Democrat) born every minute.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:21:26 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jun 13, 9:41 am, "
wrote:

My neighbor, part of whose front lawn touches mine, uses a granular
product at least once a year. He spread a white granular product
about a month ago.

The propety line is distinct between his lawn and mine. His section
is green, thick and essentially weed free. Mine, not so much.

I think that's one of the reasons SWMBO is relenting on the use of
chemicals.

There are "natural" fertilizers. Not cheap, but they are available.

Yeah, there's a sucker (usually a Democrat) born every minute.

And there's a moronic poster every time you click send.

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:52:30 -0700, "Bob F" wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:21:26 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jun 13, 9:41 am, "
wrote:

My neighbor, part of whose front lawn touches mine, uses a granular
product at least once a year. He spread a white granular product
about a month ago.

The propety line is distinct between his lawn and mine. His section
is green, thick and essentially weed free. Mine, not so much.

I think that's one of the reasons SWMBO is relenting on the use of
chemicals.

There are "natural" fertilizers. Not cheap, but they are available.

Yeah, there's a sucker (usually a Democrat) born every minute.

And there's a moronic poster every time you click send.

Sure, the lefty moron attempting to read (not succeeding)what I've written.