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#41
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Chain saw brand
On Tue, 8 May 2012 19:09:23 -0500, "Attila.Iskander"
wrote: "HeyBub" wrote in message news Vinny From NYC wrote: On Tue, 8 May 2012 12:13:40 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller wrote Re Chain saw brand: I can't believe all the nonsense I'm reading in these responses. None of you have any idea what the guy wants a chain saw for, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0324216/ and to insist -- without knowing this -- that he simply must have a Stihl, is simply idiotic. wrong And the view of someone from New York City on chainsaws is meaningful? Well they do have trees in and around NYC. I don't think they allow chain saws in Central Park, though. |
#42
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Chain saw brand
On 5/8/2012 11:11 PM, Ron wrote:
On May 8, 10:34 pm, wrote: Recently got a good deal on a small Solo trimming saw. Can you use it to trim your posts? +1 ROFLMAO! |
#43
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Chain saw brand
On Tue, 8 May 2012 20:46:32 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote Re Chain saw brand: If the chainsaw sees use only three times a year, it doesn't matter if it starts on the first pull or the tenth pull. wrong |
#45
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Chain saw brand
"dpb" wrote in message ... On 5/8/2012 8:36 PM, Attila.Iskander wrote: "dpb" wrote in message ... ... I don't suppose it would have gotten much use on the times it didn't... Actually at one time, it was my primary ... Whooosh... Sounds like it's windy where you are Have you considered ear plugs to reduce the volume of wing going between your ears ? Could help reduce that whooshing sound you hear. |
#46
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Chain saw brand
"Steve B" wrote in :
What's a good brand of chainsaw? Stihl or Husqvarna. I've found, over the years, that most of the time when a person tells me that [most-expensive brand] is the only brand of [object] that's worth buying, he's not trying to convince *me* of that. He's trying to reassure *himself* that he didn't waste his money when he bought his. |
#47
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Chain saw brand
On 5/9/2012 10:02 AM, Steve B wrote:
"Doug wrote in message No, you only think you did. You don't have enough information to make an intelligent answer to his question. And -- surprise! -- you didn't. Hmmmmm. What's a good brand of chainsaw? Stihl or Husqvarna. According to the last part of your post, I am not the only stupid person here. Do you want to start a 12 step program meeting? Steve I've noticed Asplundh tree service uses Stihl exclusively. They maintain thousands of miles of power lines in our state so I think they know what the **** they're doing. I've never seen anyone in an Asplundh bucket running a Poulan or a Homelite. LOL! If I couldn't afford a Stihl, I'd prolly just buy a good quality arborist's hand saw. |
#48
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Chain saw brand
On 5/9/2012 8:26 PM, Harry Johnson wrote:
On 5/9/2012 10:02 AM, Steve B wrote: "Doug wrote in message No, you only think you did. You don't have enough information to make an intelligent answer to his question. And -- surprise! -- you didn't. Hmmmmm. What's a good brand of chainsaw? Stihl or Husqvarna. According to the last part of your post, I am not the only stupid person here. Do you want to start a 12 step program meeting? Steve I've noticed Asplundh tree service uses Stihl exclusively. They maintain thousands of miles of power lines in our state so I think they know what the **** they're doing. I've never seen anyone in an Asplundh bucket running a Poulan or a Homelite. LOL! If I couldn't afford a Stihl, I'd prolly just buy a good quality arborist's hand saw. anytime you see a forest firefighter team at work on the news or a tv show, guess what brand saw is in their hand? There's a reason Stihl is number one. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#49
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"Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : What's a good brand of chainsaw? Stihl or Husqvarna. I've found, over the years, that most of the time when a person tells me that [most-expensive brand] is the only brand of [object] that's worth buying, he's not trying to convince *me* of that. He's trying to reassure *himself* that he didn't waste his money when he bought his. Actually, what reinforces my belief that I bought a good chain saw (Husky) is hearing all the whiners who are looking for a new chain saw after one or two or three years of normal use with their el cheapo chain saws. Steve |
#50
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"Harry Johnson" wrote in message ... On 5/9/2012 10:02 AM, Steve B wrote: "Doug wrote in message No, you only think you did. You don't have enough information to make an intelligent answer to his question. And -- surprise! -- you didn't. Hmmmmm. What's a good brand of chainsaw? Stihl or Husqvarna. According to the last part of your post, I am not the only stupid person here. Do you want to start a 12 step program meeting? Steve I've noticed Asplundh tree service uses Stihl exclusively. They maintain thousands of miles of power lines in our state so I think they know what the **** they're doing. I've never seen anyone in an Asplundh bucket running a Poulan or a Homelite. LOL! sigh That's like claiming that you've never seen a fighter pilot go to war in a hang-glider. But hey, the fun part of usenet is having idi, er individuals make that kind of argument in all seriousness. If I couldn't afford a Stihl, I'd prolly just buy a good quality arborist's hand saw. There you go Stick to what you can handle. |
#51
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Chain saw brand
"Steve B" wrote in :
"Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : What's a good brand of chainsaw? Stihl or Husqvarna. I've found, over the years, that most of the time when a person tells me that [most-expensive brand] is the only brand of [object] that's worth buying, he's not trying to convince *me* of that. He's trying to reassure *himself* that he didn't waste his money when he bought his. Actually, what reinforces my belief that I bought a good chain saw (Husky) is hearing all the whiners who are looking for a new chain saw after one or two or three years of normal use with their el cheapo chain saws. Uh-huh. Keep telling yourself that. |
#52
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"Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : "Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : What's a good brand of chainsaw? Stihl or Husqvarna. I've found, over the years, that most of the time when a person tells me that [most-expensive brand] is the only brand of [object] that's worth buying, he's not trying to convince *me* of that. He's trying to reassure *himself* that he didn't waste his money when he bought his. Actually, what reinforces my belief that I bought a good chain saw (Husky) is hearing all the whiners who are looking for a new chain saw after one or two or three years of normal use with their el cheapo chain saws. Uh-huh. Keep telling yourself that. Funny. He was pushing Stihl but bought a Husky Can you see the disconnect and possible hypocrisy ? |
#53
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Chain saw brand
"Attila.Iskander" wrote in :
Funny. He was pushing Stihl but bought a Husky Can you see the disconnect and possible hypocrisy ? http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...c?dmode=source |
#54
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Chain saw brand
"Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Attila.Iskander" wrote in : Funny. He was pushing Stihl but bought a Husky Can you see the disconnect and possible hypocrisy ? http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...c?dmode=source Interesting He's a thief too... |
#55
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Chain saw brand
"Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : "Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : What's a good brand of chainsaw? Stihl or Husqvarna. I've found, over the years, that most of the time when a person tells me that [most-expensive brand] is the only brand of [object] that's worth buying, he's not trying to convince *me* of that. He's trying to reassure *himself* that he didn't waste his money when he bought his. Actually, what reinforces my belief that I bought a good chain saw (Husky) is hearing all the whiners who are looking for a new chain saw after one or two or three years of normal use with their el cheapo chain saws. Uh-huh. Keep telling yourself that. You're right, Doug. You're always right. I mean, you wrote it, so it must be right. And you just keep on sawing two branches a year with your little saw, there. Anyone who cuts more than a cord a winter knows the real skinny about chain saws. The rest are just occasional users, and any old thing will work. Steve |
#56
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Chain saw brand
"Steve B" wrote in message ... "Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : "Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : What's a good brand of chainsaw? Stihl or Husqvarna. I've found, over the years, that most of the time when a person tells me that [most-expensive brand] is the only brand of [object] that's worth buying, he's not trying to convince *me* of that. He's trying to reassure *himself* that he didn't waste his money when he bought his. Actually, what reinforces my belief that I bought a good chain saw (Husky) is hearing all the whiners who are looking for a new chain saw after one or two or three years of normal use with their el cheapo chain saws. Uh-huh. Keep telling yourself that. You're right, Doug. You're always right. I mean, you wrote it, so it must be right. And you just keep on sawing two branches a year with your little saw, there. Anyone who cuts more than a cord a winter knows the real skinny about chain saws. The rest are just occasional users, and any old thing will work. I have a refurbished Sears 42cc 18" chain saw, that I bought 17 years ago for about $60 (if memory serves) Have kept it in a case in the back of the pickup for about 5 years year round. Used it to salvage firewood and interesting lumber for a friend who carves and makes bowls. I still have it and it still works GO figure Just the savings on buying that "cheap' saw paid for a bunch of other saws I bought in the following years. Many of those have been passed on to good homes where they are appreciated, even though they are not Stihls.. |
#57
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Chain saw brand
"Steve B" wrote in :
"Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : "Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : What's a good brand of chainsaw? Stihl or Husqvarna. I've found, over the years, that most of the time when a person tells me that [most-expensive brand] is the only brand of [object] that's worth buying, he's not trying to convince *me* of that. He's trying to reassure *himself* that he didn't waste his money when he bought his. Actually, what reinforces my belief that I bought a good chain saw (Husky) is hearing all the whiners who are looking for a new chain saw after one or two or three years of normal use with their el cheapo chain saws. Uh-huh. Keep telling yourself that. You're right, Doug. You're always right. I mean, you wrote it, so it must be right. And you just keep on sawing two branches a year with your little saw, there. Anyone who cuts more than a cord a winter knows the real skinny about chain saws. The rest are just occasional users, and any old thing will work. If you only cut a cord a year, you wasted your money. FWIW, I just finished cutting up a fallen tree in my back yard, a large cherry about 60 years old. We had to haul close to half of it to the dump because it was full of termites. After splitting and stacking the rest, it amounts to around 2/3 cord -- would have been over a cord, definitely, if the wood had all been sound. The saw? A 16" Poulan that I bought at Lowe's about ten years ago -- which, according to you, is just a toy. Conclusion: you're FOS. |
#58
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Chain saw brand
On 5/10/2012 1:51 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
FWIW, I just finished cutting up a fallen tree in my back yard, a large cherry about 60 years old. We had to haul close to half of it to the dump because it was full of termites. After splitting and stacking the rest, it amounts to around 2/3 cord -- would have been over a cord, definitely, if the wood had all been sound. The saw? A 16" Poulan that I bought at Lowe's about ten years ago -- which, according to you, is just a toy. Conclusion: you're FOS. I've NEVER had any luck with any gas powered equipment sold at a big box store. It's all junk, in my experience. |
#59
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Chain saw brand
MARK O'MARA wrote:
I've NEVER had any luck with any gas powered equipment sold at a big box store. It's all junk, in my experience. That's kind of my feeling as well. The big box stores are trying to meet a price point, and the only way the manufacturers can do that is to cut quality any where they can. Someone posted an interesting article here recently about how Walmart has made lawnmowers almost disposable - use for a season and throw it away. |
#60
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Chain saw brand
Amazing. I'd heard such things, but today took
the time to search it on the net. http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=10574 Interesting, article says Levi Strauss has a cheaper line of clothes that go to Walmart. So, maybe Levis from other stores are higher price, but better quality? Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Robert Neville" wrote in message Someone posted an interesting article here recently about how Walmart has made lawnmowers almost disposable - use for a season and throw it away. |
#61
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Chain saw brand
"Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : "Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : "Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : What's a good brand of chainsaw? Stihl or Husqvarna. I've found, over the years, that most of the time when a person tells me that [most-expensive brand] is the only brand of [object] that's worth buying, he's not trying to convince *me* of that. He's trying to reassure *himself* that he didn't waste his money when he bought his. Actually, what reinforces my belief that I bought a good chain saw (Husky) is hearing all the whiners who are looking for a new chain saw after one or two or three years of normal use with their el cheapo chain saws. Uh-huh. Keep telling yourself that. You're right, Doug. You're always right. I mean, you wrote it, so it must be right. And you just keep on sawing two branches a year with your little saw, there. Anyone who cuts more than a cord a winter knows the real skinny about chain saws. The rest are just occasional users, and any old thing will work. If you only cut a cord a year, you wasted your money. FWIW, I just finished cutting up a fallen tree in my back yard, a large cherry about 60 years old. We had to haul close to half of it to the dump because it was full of termites. After splitting and stacking the rest, it amounts to around 2/3 cord -- would have been over a cord, definitely, if the wood had all been sound. The saw? A 16" Poulan that I bought at Lowe's about ten years ago -- which, according to you, is just a toy. Conclusion: you're FOS. That is what I love about things. You can choose what you want. **** or good products. Steve |
#62
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Chain saw brand
"MARK O'MARA" wrote in message ... On 5/10/2012 1:51 PM, Doug Miller wrote: FWIW, I just finished cutting up a fallen tree in my back yard, a large cherry about 60 years old. We had to haul close to half of it to the dump because it was full of termites. After splitting and stacking the rest, it amounts to around 2/3 cord -- would have been over a cord, definitely, if the wood had all been sound. The saw? A 16" Poulan that I bought at Lowe's about ten years ago -- which, according to you, is just a toy. Conclusion: you're FOS. I've NEVER had any luck with any gas powered equipment sold at a big box store. It's all junk, in my experience. But wait, the omnipotent Doug has spoken. Therefore, you must be in error, FOS, and all that. You did not see what you think you saw. You did not experience what you think and said you experienced. Are you on drugs? I guess we both are, because my experiences parallel yours. ALL HAIL DOUG! Steve |
#63
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Chain saw brand
"Robert Neville" wrote in message ... MARK O'MARA wrote: I've NEVER had any luck with any gas powered equipment sold at a big box store. It's all junk, in my experience. That's kind of my feeling as well. The big box stores are trying to meet a price point, and the only way the manufacturers can do that is to cut quality any where they can. Someone posted an interesting article here recently about how Walmart has made lawnmowers almost disposable - use for a season and throw it away. Bought a Craftsman last week for $10. Cleaned the carb, power washed it, and sold it for $50. They're good for something. Steve |
#64
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Chain saw brand
Robert Neville wrote in news:1etqq7tedbe0nneu9to1501pqvo5rhpb6v@
4ax.com: MARK O'MARA wrote: I've NEVER had any luck with any gas powered equipment sold at a big box store. It's all junk, in my experience. That's kind of my feeling as well. The big box stores are trying to meet a price point, and the only way the manufacturers can do that is to cut quality any where they can. Someone posted an interesting article here recently about how Walmart has made lawnmowers almost disposable - use for a season and throw it away. I'm still using a walk-behind lawnmower that I bought at Walmart in 1999. Go figure. |
#65
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Chain saw brand
"Steve B" wrote in :
"Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : "Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : "Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : What's a good brand of chainsaw? Stihl or Husqvarna. I've found, over the years, that most of the time when a person tells me that [most-expensive brand] is the only brand of [object] that's worth buying, he's not trying to convince *me* of that. He's trying to reassure *himself* that he didn't waste his money when he bought his. Actually, what reinforces my belief that I bought a good chain saw (Husky) is hearing all the whiners who are looking for a new chain saw after one or two or three years of normal use with their el cheapo chain saws. Uh-huh. Keep telling yourself that. You're right, Doug. You're always right. I mean, you wrote it, so it must be right. And you just keep on sawing two branches a year with your little saw, there. Anyone who cuts more than a cord a winter knows the real skinny about chain saws. The rest are just occasional users, and any old thing will work. If you only cut a cord a year, you wasted your money. FWIW, I just finished cutting up a fallen tree in my back yard, a large cherry about 60 years old. We had to haul close to half of it to the dump because it was full of termites. After splitting and stacking the rest, it amounts to around 2/3 cord -- would have been over a cord, definitely, if the wood had all been sound. The saw? A 16" Poulan that I bought at Lowe's about ten years ago -- which, according to you, is just a toy. Conclusion: you're FOS. That is what I love about things. You can choose what you want. **** or good products. You're the expert on the former, apparently. Some day, perhaps you will learn you can get the latter without spending top dollar. Or perhaps you won't. |
#66
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Chain saw brand
"Steve B" wrote in message ... "Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : "Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : "Doug Miller" wrote in message . .. "Steve B" wrote in : What's a good brand of chainsaw? Stihl or Husqvarna. I've found, over the years, that most of the time when a person tells me that [most-expensive brand] is the only brand of [object] that's worth buying, he's not trying to convince *me* of that. He's trying to reassure *himself* that he didn't waste his money when he bought his. Actually, what reinforces my belief that I bought a good chain saw (Husky) is hearing all the whiners who are looking for a new chain saw after one or two or three years of normal use with their el cheapo chain saws. Uh-huh. Keep telling yourself that. You're right, Doug. You're always right. I mean, you wrote it, so it must be right. And you just keep on sawing two branches a year with your little saw, there. Anyone who cuts more than a cord a winter knows the real skinny about chain saws. The rest are just occasional users, and any old thing will work. If you only cut a cord a year, you wasted your money. FWIW, I just finished cutting up a fallen tree in my back yard, a large cherry about 60 years old. We had to haul close to half of it to the dump because it was full of termites. After splitting and stacking the rest, it amounts to around 2/3 cord -- would have been over a cord, definitely, if the wood had all been sound. The saw? A 16" Poulan that I bought at Lowe's about ten years ago -- which, according to you, is just a toy. Conclusion: you're FOS. That is what I love about things. You can choose what you want. **** or good products. That explains how we rate your input |
#67
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Chain saw brand
"Doug Miller" wrote You're the expert on the former, apparently. Some day, perhaps you will learn you can get the latter without spending top dollar. Or perhaps you won't. Oh, I get stuff at Harbor Freight. And at yard sales. Most of the time, you get what you pay for, and that is particularly true with certain tools and machines. Whatever gets the work done for you, Doug. There's a hundred ways to cook a poodle. Steve |
#68
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Chain saw brand
On Fri, 11 May 2012 15:54:23 -0400, MARK O'MARA
wrote: I've NEVER had any luck with any gas powered equipment sold at a big box store. It's all junk, in my experience. I have to disagree. I was given a Homelite chain saw. I used it to cut up a couple of branches and it worked OK one time. After that, I used it to hold down the lid on the trash can in the shop. Since doing that, the lid has never blown off. Sure spend big bucks for a Stihl if you want, but that Homelite holds the lid down as good as any of the more costly brands. Want to cut wood? Yeah, I have a Stihl for that. |
#69
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Chain saw brand
On 5/11/2012 4:33 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
Robert wrote in news:1etqq7tedbe0nneu9to1501pqvo5rhpb6v@ 4ax.com: MARK wrote: I've NEVER had any luck with any gas powered equipment sold at a big box store. It's all junk, in my experience. That's kind of my feeling as well. The big box stores are trying to meet a price point, and the only way the manufacturers can do that is to cut quality any where they can. Someone posted an interesting article here recently about how Walmart has made lawnmowers almost disposable - use for a season and throw it away. I'm still using a walk-behind lawnmower that I bought at Walmart in 1999. Go figure. but using it as a planter doesn't really count as being a viable machine in it's old age. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#70
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Steve Barker wrote in
: On 5/11/2012 4:33 PM, Doug Miller wrote: I'm still using a walk-behind lawnmower that I bought at Walmart in 1999. Go figure. but using it as a planter doesn't really count as being a viable machine in it's old age. I guess I have to spell it out for you, don't I? I'm still using it _to_cut_grass_. And it still starts on the first or second pull. |
#71
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On May 11, 8:52*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 11 May 2012 15:54:23 -0400, MARK O'MARA wrote: I've NEVER had any luck with any gas powered equipment sold at a big box store. It's all junk, in my experience. I have to disagree. *I was given a Homelite chain saw. *I used it to cut up a couple of branches and it worked OK one time. *After that, I used it to hold down the lid on the trash can in the shop. *Since doing that, the lid has never blown off. Sure spend big bucks for a Stihl if you want, but that Homelite holds the lid down as good as any of the more costly brands. Want to cut wood? *Yeah, I have a Stihl for that. Harry K |
#72
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On 5/12/2012 9:33 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Steve wrote in : On 5/11/2012 4:33 PM, Doug Miller wrote: I'm still using a walk-behind lawnmower that I bought at Walmart in 1999. Go figure. but using it as a planter doesn't really count as being a viable machine in it's old age. I guess I have to spell it out for you, don't I? I'm still using it _to_cut_grass_. And it still starts on the first or second pull. ohhhhhhhhhhhh... LOL! -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#73
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On 5/11/2012 5:33 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
I'm still using a walk-behind lawnmower that I bought at Walmart in 1999. Go figure. That's exceptional! What brand is it? |
#74
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Jack wrote in :
On 5/11/2012 5:33 PM, Doug Miller wrote: I'm still using a walk-behind lawnmower that I bought at Walmart in 1999. Go figure. That's exceptional! What brand is it? Yard Machines (MTD) with a Tecumseh engine. |
#75
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On 05/13/2012 01:40 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
wrote in : On 5/11/2012 5:33 PM, Doug Miller wrote: I'm still using a walk-behind lawnmower that I bought at Walmart in 1999. Go figure. That's exceptional! What brand is it? Yard Machines (MTD) with a Tecumseh engine. Wow, how many times have you replaced the flywheel key? (of course, it doesn't take long after the first time you've done it...) nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
#76
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On Sun, 13 May 2012 11:28:09 -0400, Jack wrote Re
Chain saw brand: On 5/11/2012 5:33 PM, Doug Miller wrote: I'm still using a walk-behind lawnmower that I bought at Walmart in 1999. Go figure. That's exceptional! What brand is it? What's really exceptional is that anyone believe that claim. |
#77
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On Sun, 13 May 2012 12:47:23 -0500, Vinny From NYC
wrote: On Sun, 13 May 2012 11:28:09 -0400, Jack wrote Re Chain saw brand: On 5/11/2012 5:33 PM, Doug Miller wrote: I'm still using a walk-behind lawnmower that I bought at Walmart in 1999. Go figure. That's exceptional! What brand is it? What's really exceptional is that anyone believe that claim. Maybe his lawn is 10' x 20'. |
#78
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On May 13, 10:47*am, Vinny From NYC wrote:
On Sun, 13 May 2012 11:28:09 -0400, Jack wrote Re Chain saw brand: On 5/11/2012 5:33 PM, Doug Miller wrote: I'm still using a walk-behind lawnmower that I bought at Walmart in 1999. Go figure. That's exceptional! What brand is it? What's really exceptional is that anyone believe that claim. Well, I am still useing a Konda SX with HRA 214 engine I bought about 1985. Wore the rubber off the drive wheels twice, Replaced one clutch cable, one spark plug and a fuel filter. It is now assigned to trim mower only after the rider is finished but it still starts first pull every time...except for the first start in the spring. That takes sitting awhile in the sun to warm the old bones and usually 3 pulls. Of course that is comparing a quality mower to a MTD product. Harry K |
#79
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Chain saw brand
Ed Pawlowski wrote in
: Maybe his lawn is 10' x 20'. That is our "lawn", and the boss herself uses our push-mower to mow that. It looks something like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004RA3F/ -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
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Chain saw brand
On 5/13/2012 12:43 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 05/13/2012 01:40 PM, Doug Miller wrote: wrote in : On 5/11/2012 5:33 PM, Doug Miller wrote: I'm still using a walk-behind lawnmower that I bought at Walmart in 1999. Go figure. That's exceptional! What brand is it? Yard Machines (MTD) with a Tecumseh engine. Wow, how many times have you replaced the flywheel key? (of course, it doesn't take long after the first time you've done it...) nate If the thing is tight to begin with, and you don't hit any solid objects, there's no reason to shear that key. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
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