My house is about 30 years old. The electrical outlets are 3 prong
and the circuits are all on breakers. One of the circuits in the
kitchen measures 115v but it seems when i put a load on it, like a
hotplate or some other appliance, it takes a long time to heat up
and doesn't fully heat up. It seems like when you put a load on
the circuit it can't supply the necessary amperage. This all just
started a few days ago. I flipped the breakers but still have
problem. Do circuit breakers goe bad? Any other ideas of
what it might be before I have to call an electrician?
Thanks.

J

On Apr 26, 6:54*pm, J wrote:
My house is about 30 years old. *The electrical outlets are 3 prong
and the circuits are all on breakers. *One of the circuits in the
kitchen measures 115v but it seems when i put a load on it, like a
hotplate or some other appliance, it takes a long time to heat up
and doesn't fully heat up. *It seems like when you put a load on
the circuit it can't supply the necessary amperage. *This all just
started a few days ago. *I flipped the breakers but still have
problem. *Do circuit breakers goe bad? *Any other ideas of
what it might be before I have to call an electrician?
Thanks.

J

YEAH SURE.......YOU'VE GOT GOBLINS.....SELL SELL SELL MOVE OUT OF
THERE ASAP.

BOOWAHAHAHAHA !

TGITM

J wrote in :


My house is about 30 years old. The electrical outlets are 3 prong
and the circuits are all on breakers. One of the circuits in the
kitchen measures 115v but it seems when i put a load on it, like a
hotplate or some other appliance, it takes a long time to heat up
and doesn't fully heat up. It seems like when you put a load on
the circuit it can't supply the necessary amperage. This all just
started a few days ago. I flipped the breakers but still have
problem. Do circuit breakers goe bad? Any other ideas of
what it might be before I have to call an electrician?
Thanks.

J


or some other appliance

What happens with an appliance that has a motor (like a blender) compared
to a known good outlet?

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:54:34 -0500, J wrote:


My house is about 30 years old. The electrical outlets are 3 prong
and the circuits are all on breakers. One of the circuits in the
kitchen measures 115v but it seems when i put a load on it, like a
hotplate or some other appliance, it takes a long time to heat up
and doesn't fully heat up. It seems like when you put a load on
the circuit it can't supply the necessary amperage. This all just
started a few days ago. I flipped the breakers but still have
problem. Do circuit breakers goe bad? Any other ideas of
what it might be before I have to call an electrician?
Thanks.

J

Measure the voltage with the load applied. If it's still 115 or
close, you're imagining things. If it drops more than a couple volts
you've got a bad connection somewhere (check the connection to the
outlet first, especially if backstabbed).

CBs do sometimes fail with high resistance, and sometimes the
connection between the breaker and the buss bar corrodes or loosens.
You can measure the voltage right at the breaker and do the same test
as above to see if any drop is at the breaker.

If it is dropping under load, don't use the circuit until it's
fixed...perfect way to start a fire because wherever bad connection
is, it's going to get hot.

HTH,

Paul F.

On 4/26/2012 5:54 PM, J wrote:

My house is about 30 years old. The electrical outlets are 3 prong
and the circuits are all on breakers. One of the circuits in the
kitchen measures 115v but it seems when i put a load on it, like a
hotplate or some other appliance, it takes a long time to heat up
and doesn't fully heat up. It seems like when you put a load on
the circuit it can't supply the necessary amperage. This all just
started a few days ago. I flipped the breakers but still have
problem. Do circuit breakers goe bad? Any other ideas of
what it might be before I have to call an electrician?

Symptomatic of bad ground or other high resistance connection.

Story--when moved back to farm after Dad died, the light in the pump
house lit but was very dim...voltage was nominal but no current (even
worse than your apparent case). Traced it back to the pole that
supplied the panel in the pumphouse; the ground had broken at the
weatherhead on the pole from sufficient time and flex in SW KS wind...

--

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:54:34 -0500, J wrote:


My house is about 30 years old. The electrical outlets are 3 prong
and the circuits are all on breakers. One of the circuits in the
kitchen measures 115v but it seems when i put a load on it, like a
hotplate or some other appliance, it takes a long time to heat up
and doesn't fully heat up. It seems like when you put a load on
the circuit it can't supply the necessary amperage. This all just
started a few days ago. I flipped the breakers but still have
problem. Do circuit breakers goe bad? Any other ideas of
what it might be before I have to call an electrician?
Thanks.

J
Bad connection somewhere, heating up. Unless you know what you are
doing (which by your question, it appears you do not) call an
electrician NOW. (well, in the morning, anyways)

On Apr 26, 7:17*pm, Paul Franklin
wrote:
On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:54:34 -0500, J wrote:

My house is about 30 years old. *The electrical outlets are 3 prong
and the circuits are all on breakers. *One of the circuits in the
kitchen measures 115v but it seems when i put a load on it, like a
hotplate or some other appliance, it takes a long time to heat up
and doesn't fully heat up. *It seems like when you put a load on
the circuit it can't supply the necessary amperage. *This all just
started a few days ago. *I flipped the breakers but still have
problem. *Do circuit breakers goe bad? *Any other ideas of
what it might be before I have to call an electrician?
Thanks.

J

Measure the voltage with the load applied.

Agree.

If it's still 115 or
close, you're imagining things. *If it drops more than a couple volts
you've got a bad connection somewhere (check the connection to the
outlet first, especially if backstabbed).

I think the goal is to have a max drop of 5% at the
farthest location under full load. That is a goal, I
don't think there is an actual code reqt. So, if he has
120V at the panel, and 114V under load at the farthest
outlet, he's fine. Or if he has 115V at the panel and it drops to 109
under load, that's within reason too, but
the panel voltage would be a bit low. I wouldn't be worried even if
it dropped a bit more than 5% at the
farthest outlets.

But those drops are small and would not explain a
hot plate or similar appliance taking a long time to
heat up.





CBs do sometimes fail with high resistance, and sometimes the
connection between the breaker and the buss bar corrodes or loosens.
You can measure the voltage right at the breaker and do the same test
as above to see if any drop is at the breaker.

If it is dropping under load, don't use the circuit until it's
fixed...perfect way to start a fire because wherever bad connection
is, it's going to get hot.

HTH,

Paul F.

I agree if it's dropping a lot under full load, like more than 10%,
then he has a problem.

Inside the panel box, tighten all the grounds and neutrals. If you're
comfortable working inside panel boxes, that is.

Also check for back stabbed outlets.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"J" wrote in message
...

My house is about 30 years old. The electrical outlets are 3 prong
and the circuits are all on breakers. One of the circuits in the
kitchen measures 115v but it seems when i put a load on it, like a
hotplate or some other appliance, it takes a long time to heat up
and doesn't fully heat up. It seems like when you put a load on
the circuit it can't supply the necessary amperage. This all just
started a few days ago. I flipped the breakers but still have
problem. Do circuit breakers goe bad? Any other ideas of
what it might be before I have to call an electrician?
Thanks.

J

dpb wrote:
On 4/26/2012 5:54 PM, J wrote:

My house is about 30 years old. The electrical outlets are 3 prong
and the circuits are all on breakers. One of the circuits in the
kitchen measures 115v but it seems when i put a load on it, like a
hotplate or some other appliance, it takes a long time to heat up
and doesn't fully heat up. It seems like when you put a load on
the circuit it can't supply the necessary amperage. This all just
started a few days ago. I flipped the breakers but still have
problem. Do circuit breakers goe bad? Any other ideas of
what it might be before I have to call an electrician?

Symptomatic of bad ground or other high resistance connection.

Story--when moved back to farm after Dad died, the light in the pump
house lit but was very dim...voltage was nominal but no current (even
worse than your apparent case). Traced it back to the pole that
supplied the panel in the pumphouse; the ground had broken at the
weatherhead on the pole from sufficient time and flex in SW KS wind...

Please explain how a ground, connected or not, can influence the current
between a hot and a neutral.

Even HAVING grounds at outlets is a fairly recent development.

On 4/26/2012 8:22 PM, HeyBub wrote:
....


Please explain how a ground, connected or not, can influence the current
between a hot and a neutral.
....

Sorry, a mis-write. It was the neutral; it was also a two-wire circuit...

--

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:09:05 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:54:34 -0500, J wrote:


My house is about 30 years old. The electrical outlets are 3 prong
and the circuits are all on breakers. One of the circuits in the
kitchen measures 115v but it seems when i put a load on it, like a
hotplate or some other appliance, it takes a long time to heat up
and doesn't fully heat up. It seems like when you put a load on
the circuit it can't supply the necessary amperage. This all just
started a few days ago. I flipped the breakers but still have
problem. Do circuit breakers goe bad? Any other ideas of
what it might be before I have to call an electrician?
Thanks.

J
Bad connection somewhere, heating up. Unless you know what you are
doing (which by your question, it appears you do not) call an
electrician NOW. (well, in the morning, anyways)

To the OP. If you are not reading the correct voltage, turn on the
hotplate or other troublesome device. Let it run for a few minutes.
Then go to the breaker box and feel that breaker. If it's hot or very
warm, it needs to be replaced. A normal breaker may get slightly warm
under heavy load, but not hot or very warm.

Before calling an electrician, as long as you're comfortable working
with electricity, spend $5 to $10 for a different breaker. Also, pull
that outlet out of the wall, and look for overheating on the screws or
backstabs. Replace if needed, or just replace it anyhow, since outlets
are cheap.

If there are other outlets or lights on that circuit, open all of them
and look for burnt connections.

If none of this fixes it, call an electrician.

On Apr 26, 9:13*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:09:05 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:54:34 -0500, J wrote:

My house is about 30 years old. *The electrical outlets are 3 prong
and the circuits are all on breakers. *One of the circuits in the
kitchen measures 115v but it seems when i put a load on it, like a
hotplate or some other appliance, it takes a long time to heat up
and doesn't fully heat up. *It seems like when you put a load on
the circuit it can't supply the necessary amperage. *This all just
started a few days ago. *I flipped the breakers but still have
problem. *Do circuit breakers goe bad? *Any other ideas of
what it might be before I have to call an electrician?
Thanks.

J
Bad connection somewhere, heating up. Unless you know what you are
doing (which by your question, it appears you do not) call an
electrician NOW. (well, in the morning, anyways)

To the OP. *If you are not reading the correct voltage, turn on the
hotplate or other troublesome device. *Let it run for a few minutes.
Then go to the breaker box and feel that breaker. *If it's hot or very
warm, it needs to be replaced. *A normal breaker may get slightly warm
under heavy load, but not hot or very warm.

Before calling an electrician, as long as you're comfortable working
with electricity, spend $5 to $10 for a different breaker. *Also, pull
that outlet out of the wall, and look for overheating on the screws or
backstabs. *Replace if needed, or just replace it anyhow, since outlets
are cheap.

If there are other outlets or lights on that circuit, open all of them
and look for burnt connections.

If none of this fixes it, call an electrician.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The previous poster should have said that the outlet in question may
be the 2nd, 3rd or 4th or even the 5th on a circuit that has daisy-
chained outlets, and the the bad connection can be anywhere between
the outlet in question and the circuit breaker in one of the
intermediate outlets.

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:35:41 -0500, dpb wrote:

Symptomatic of bad ground or other high resistance connection.

Story--when moved back to farm after Dad died, the light in the pump
house lit but was very dim...voltage was nominal but no current (even
worse than your apparent case). Traced it back to the pole that
supplied the panel in the pumphouse; the ground had broken at the
weatherhead on the pole from sufficient time and flex in SW KS wind...

I had a bad neutral connection on the entrance head to my garage some
years ago. That can cause some pretty crazy (and destructive) things to
happen. Remember, you have 240 coming in, and the neutral is the
centertap giving two 120 circuits. For example, put a heavy load on one
leg, such as a circular saw, and the saw will run real slow, and lights
will be real dim. Yet, the other leg will produce excessively high
voltages. Plugging in my circular saw is what made me aware of a
problem in the garage. The saw was real slow, but the lightbulbs on the
ceiling were extremely bright for a few seconds and were burning out
quickly. The reason is that with the neutral missing, the saw motor
became connected in series to the bulbs, and since the saw uses more
amps, the bulbs got the high end of the voltage. I was probably getting
something like 50v to the saw, and 190v to the bulbs (190 + 50 = 240).

From this problem, I lost every lightbulb in the garage, a shop light
ballast, the garage clock radio, which is always plugged in even if the
radio is turned off), my cordless drill battery charger which was
plugged in at the time, the outdoor floodlight motion sensor and that
bulb too. The higher amperage consuming devices were not harmed. This
includes the circular saw, an electric drill that I plugged in (because
at first I thought the saw motor was bad, and an electric space heater
that I plugged in after the drill to provide a heavy load while
measuring voltages.

Luckily I did not lose more.

Because the bad neutral was inside of a covered connection, it was not
noticable. I confirmed the neutral was bad, by running a 250ft roll of
single conductor #12 wire from the meter pole neutral to the garage
neutral. (Note: This is a farm, the meter pole Main Disconnect,
supplies three separate service entrances, the house, the garage, a
barn). *The house and the barn worked fine*.
After this, it was a matter of locating the bad neutral connection,
which was right at the service entrance head to the garage. (I was glad
it was not up on the pole that feeds the garage, because I would have
had to hire someone, since I refuse to climb a ladder to a power pole).

I repaired the connection using a new connector, after cleaning the
wires, and everything was back to normal.

---

If the OP is noticing lights are excessively bright, small items are
burning out, such as small motors, computers, tv sets, radios, clocks,
etc, you have a bad neutral connection, most likely inside the house's
wiring. If it's just that one outlet at fault, it's more likely the
outlet itself or the breaker that feeds it. (or another connection on
that circuit). If other devices are burning out and you're not
experienced, call an electrician. Fried computers, tv sets, and small
appliances can get costly real fast.

I think what happened to you is what's happening here. My microwave
burned out first, then my garage door opener motor and I checked
the circuits and they are different. So since that's the case it
could be something in the breaker box. This breaker box is a
secondary box. The main breaker box is in another part of the house
and seems to be ok. The central air and all the 220v stuff works
fine. So I'm thinking it might be a neutral problem in the secondary
box or something. So I guess I will call an electrician in the
morning. Thanks for the info.





On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:48:00 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:35:41 -0500, dpb wrote:

Symptomatic of bad ground or other high resistance connection.

Story--when moved back to farm after Dad died, the light in the pump
house lit but was very dim...voltage was nominal but no current (even
worse than your apparent case). Traced it back to the pole that
supplied the panel in the pumphouse; the ground had broken at the
weatherhead on the pole from sufficient time and flex in SW KS wind...

I had a bad neutral connection on the entrance head to my garage some
years ago. That can cause some pretty crazy (and destructive) things to
happen. Remember, you have 240 coming in, and the neutral is the
centertap giving two 120 circuits. For example, put a heavy load on one
leg, such as a circular saw, and the saw will run real slow, and lights
will be real dim. Yet, the other leg will produce excessively high
voltages. Plugging in my circular saw is what made me aware of a
problem in the garage. The saw was real slow, but the lightbulbs on the
ceiling were extremely bright for a few seconds and were burning out
quickly. The reason is that with the neutral missing, the saw motor
became connected in series to the bulbs, and since the saw uses more
amps, the bulbs got the high end of the voltage. I was probably getting
something like 50v to the saw, and 190v to the bulbs (190 + 50 = 240).

From this problem, I lost every lightbulb in the garage, a shop light
ballast, the garage clock radio, which is always plugged in even if the
radio is turned off), my cordless drill battery charger which was
plugged in at the time, the outdoor floodlight motion sensor and that
bulb too. The higher amperage consuming devices were not harmed. This
includes the circular saw, an electric drill that I plugged in (because
at first I thought the saw motor was bad, and an electric space heater
that I plugged in after the drill to provide a heavy load while
measuring voltages.

Luckily I did not lose more.

Because the bad neutral was inside of a covered connection, it was not
noticable. I confirmed the neutral was bad, by running a 250ft roll of
single conductor #12 wire from the meter pole neutral to the garage
neutral. (Note: This is a farm, the meter pole Main Disconnect,
supplies three separate service entrances, the house, the garage, a
barn). *The house and the barn worked fine*.
After this, it was a matter of locating the bad neutral connection,
which was right at the service entrance head to the garage. (I was glad
it was not up on the pole that feeds the garage, because I would have
had to hire someone, since I refuse to climb a ladder to a power pole).

I repaired the connection using a new connector, after cleaning the
wires, and everything was back to normal.

---

If the OP is noticing lights are excessively bright, small items are
burning out, such as small motors, computers, tv sets, radios, clocks,
etc, you have a bad neutral connection, most likely inside the house's
wiring. If it's just that one outlet at fault, it's more likely the
outlet itself or the breaker that feeds it. (or another connection on
that circuit). If other devices are burning out and you're not
experienced, call an electrician. Fried computers, tv sets, and small
appliances can get costly real fast.

J

On Apr 26, 10:48*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:35:41 -0500, dpb wrote:
Symptomatic of bad ground or other high resistance connection.

Story--when moved back to farm after Dad died, the light in the pump
house lit but was very dim...voltage was nominal but no current (even
worse than your apparent case). *Traced it back to the pole that
supplied the panel in the pumphouse; the ground had broken at the
weatherhead on the pole from sufficient time and flex in SW KS wind...

I had a bad neutral connection on the entrance head to my garage some
years ago. *That can cause some pretty crazy (and destructive) things to
happen. *Remember, you have 240 coming in, and the neutral is the
centertap giving two 120 circuits. *For example, put a heavy load on one
leg, such as a circular saw, and the saw will run real slow, and lights
will be real dim. *Yet, the other leg will produce excessively high
voltages. *Plugging in my circular saw is what made me aware of a
problem in the garage. *The saw was real slow, but the lightbulbs on the
ceiling were extremely bright for a few seconds and were burning out
quickly. *The reason is that with the neutral missing, the saw motor
became connected in series to the bulbs, and since the saw uses more
amps, the bulbs got the high end of the voltage. *I was probably getting
something like 50v to the saw, and 190v to the bulbs (190 + 50 = 240).

From this problem, I lost every lightbulb in the garage, a shop light
ballast, the garage clock radio, which is always plugged in even if the
radio is turned off), my cordless drill battery charger which was
plugged in at the time, the outdoor floodlight motion sensor and that
bulb too. *The higher amperage consuming devices were not harmed. *This
includes the circular saw, an electric drill that I plugged in (because
at first I thought the saw motor was bad, and an electric space heater
that I plugged in after the drill to provide a heavy load while
measuring voltages.

Luckily I did not lose more.

Because the bad neutral was inside of a covered connection, it was not
noticable. *I confirmed the neutral was bad, by running a 250ft roll of
single conductor #12 wire from the meter pole neutral to the garage
neutral. *(Note: This is a farm, the meter pole Main Disconnect,
supplies three separate service entrances, the house, the garage, a
barn). **The house and the barn worked fine*.
After this, it was a matter of locating the bad neutral connection,
which was right at the service entrance head to the garage. (I was glad
it was not up on the pole that feeds the garage, because I would have
had to hire someone, since I refuse to climb a ladder to a power pole).

I repaired the connection using a new connector, after cleaning the
wires, and everything was back to normal.

---

If the OP is noticing lights are excessively bright, small items are
burning out, such as small motors, computers, tv sets, radios, clocks,
etc, you have a bad neutral connection, most likely inside the house's
wiring. *If it's just that one outlet at fault, it's more likely the
outlet itself or the breaker that feeds it. *(or another connection on
that circuit). *If other devices are burning out and you're not
experienced, call an electrician. *Fried computers, tv sets, and small
appliances can get costly real fast.

SHUT UP TANGA.....THE ONLY GOOD ADVICE IS NO ADVICE.
HE EITHER NEEDS TO GET AN ELECTRICIAN OR MOVE OUT OF THERE.
NOT COME TO USENET TO READ INNUENDO AND CONJECTURE FROM STRANGERS THAT
KNOW SQUAT ABOUT THE SITUATION.....BESIDES, HES A TROLL..DONT YOU SEE
HIS HAIRY HANDS.


ANYWAY BY THE SYMPTOMS HE DESCRIBED ITS OBVIOUS THE GOBLINS WANT HIM
OUT OF THERE.

TGTIM

On Apr 26, 11:54*pm, J wrote:
My house is about 30 years old. *The electrical outlets are 3 prong
and the circuits are all on breakers. *One of the circuits in the
kitchen measures 115v but it seems when i put a load on it, like a
hotplate or some other appliance, it takes a long time to heat up
and doesn't fully heat up. *It seems like when you put a load on
the circuit it can't supply the necessary amperage. *This all just
started a few days ago. *I flipped the breakers but still have
problem. *Do circuit breakers goe bad? *Any other ideas of
what it might be before I have to call an electrician?
Thanks.

J

You likely have a loose connection/high resistance joint somewhere.
You need to find this urgently, it could start a fire.

Start by plugging you hotplate in elsewhere to make sure it is OK.

If so, examine connections behind your outlet and in the control
panel.
Check terminal screws for tightness etc.

Don't forget to switch off first!

On 4/26/2012 6:54 PM, J wrote:

My house is about 30 years old. The electrical outlets are 3 prong
and the circuits are all on breakers. One of the circuits in the
kitchen measures 115v but it seems when i put a load on it, like a
hotplate or some other appliance, it takes a long time to heat up
and doesn't fully heat up. It seems like when you put a load on
the circuit it can't supply the necessary amperage. This all just
started a few days ago. I flipped the breakers but still have
problem. Do circuit breakers goe bad? Any other ideas of
what it might be before I have to call an electrician?
Thanks.

J

I agree with Paul Franklin, if you're pulling a heavy load through a bad
connection, you'll get heat.
Thirty year old houses were likely to have back stabbed wiring on the 20
amp circuits. If this is only happening on one kitchen outlet, it is
even more likely a bad connection between daisy-chained outlets in the
kitchen.
In the U.S. a thirty year old house, properly wired, would have had a
minimum of 2-20 amp circuits feeding the counter outlets. If all the
other outlets in the kitchen work OK, your problem is at the connection
to the affected outlet, or the one that it's being fed from. Kill the
power, pull them out, and you should clearly see the burned connection

On 4/26/2012 9:48 PM, wrote:
....

I had a bad neutral connection on the entrance head to my garage some
years ago. That can cause some pretty crazy (and destructive) things to
happen. Remember, you have 240 coming in, and the neutral is the
centertap giving two 120 circuits....

The described feed to the pumphouse was/is 2-wire only...so the floating
relative to the other hot was not an issue. The well pump gets its 240V
from the other end; this is just a branch circuit for lights and a handy
outlet in the pumphouse (where the pump is no longer located; it's now
submerged in a new well that replaced the one w/ the above-ground pump
around which the house was built; pressure tank still there so guess it
should really be called the "tank house" now ).

And, I did say "ground" intending "neutral" as noted before....slip of
fingers.

--

I think I finally figured out what the problem was. The garage door
opener, which was also about 30 years old, developed some sort of
weird problem in the electronics that allowed it to draw current
without throwing a breaker. The other circuits which were on that
side of the 110 were also affected. After I disconnected the garage
door opener all the other circuits were ok. The hotplates, microwave
etc. went back to normal. Since I checked the panel for loose wires,
circuit breakers etc. and all was ok the only thing it could have been
was the garage door opener and probably the electrolytic capacitor or
some other component has gone bad. There is no obvious burning or
anything in the opener, so now I have to find out if it's repairable
or have to get a new one. Thanks for the help though.



J

On Apr 28, 10:17*pm, J wrote:
I think I finally figured out what the problem was. *The garage door
opener, which was also about 30 years old, developed some sort of
weird problem in the electronics that allowed it to draw current
without throwing a breaker. *The other circuits which were on that
side of the 110 were also affected. *After I disconnected the garage
door opener all the other circuits were ok. *The hotplates, microwave
etc. went back to normal. *Since I checked the panel for loose wires,
circuit breakers etc. and all was ok the only thing it could have been
was the garage door opener and probably the electrolytic capacitor or
some other component has gone bad. *There is no obvious burning or
anything in the opener, so now I have to find out if it's repairable
or have to get a new one. *Thanks for the help though.

J

If there is no obvious burning in the garage door opener,
how could it be creating such a load that the voltage
dropped so low in the kitchen that a hot plate took
longer to warm? And how could it affect other circuits?
Most it could do would be to pull 15 or 20 amps. And
with proper wiring the circuit should deliver that rated
current to any load and not have voltage drop of more
than 5 to 10% tops. With that small drop, you would not
notice longer heating times at the hot plate.
Beyond that it would trip the breaker. And it would not
affect other circuits, ie the kitchen. In short, this doesn't add up.

On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 20:51:44 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


Well I don't have all the answers but with electronics involved in the
problem, anything can happen! I just know everything is now working
fine including the microwave oven which I thought was ruined. The
circuit breakers are 20 amp., most of them anyway. For instance when
I would turn on the light over the sink and start the disposal then
light would really dim and the disposal ran slow. But now when I
turn the disposal on the light just barely blinks and the disposal
runs full speed. I have worked with electronics and know that weird
things can really happen with them. Maybe an electrical engineer
could figure all this out. I don't have all the answers to this.





If there is no obvious burning in the garage door opener,
how could it be creating such a load that the voltage
dropped so low in the kitchen that a hot plate took
longer to warm? And how could it affect other circuits?
Most it could do would be to pull 15 or 20 amps. And
with proper wiring the circuit should deliver that rated
current to any load and not have voltage drop of more
than 5 to 10% tops. With that small drop, you would not
notice longer heating times at the hot plate.
Beyond that it would trip the breaker. And it would not
affect other circuits, ie the kitchen. In short, this doesn't add up.
J

On Apr 29, 12:22*pm, J wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 20:51:44 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:

Well I don't have all the answers but with electronics involved in the
problem, anything can happen! *I just know everything is now working
fine including the microwave oven which I thought was ruined. *The
circuit breakers are 20 amp., most of them anyway. *For instance when
I would turn on the light over the sink and start the disposal then
light would really dim and the disposal ran slow. * But now when I
turn the disposal on the light just barely blinks and the disposal
runs full speed. *I have worked with electronics and know that weird
things can really happen with them. *Maybe an electrical engineer
could figure all this out. *I don't have all the answers to this.



I would suggest you get an electrician in to find out
what is going on. There is no way the garage door opener
has anything to do with the garbage disposal running
slow. They are not even on the same circuit, correct?
You could have a serious problem that is intermittent and
has just temporarily disappeared. If there is a lose
connection, partial short, etc somewhere which are some
of the things that could account for what you are seeing
and you don't fix it you run the risk of burning the house down.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your approach is
like saying I replaced the dripping kitchen sink faucet
and now the water heater stopped leaking so it must
have been the kitchen faucet that was responsible
and it's OK.





If there is no obvious burning in the garage door opener,
how could it be creating such a load that the voltage
dropped so low in the kitchen that a hot plate took
longer to warm? * And how could it affect other circuits?
Most it could do would be to pull 15 or 20 amps. *And
with proper wiring the circuit should deliver that rated
current to any load and not have voltage drop of more
than 5 *to 10% tops. *With that small drop, you would not
notice longer heating times at the hot plate.
Beyond that it would trip the breaker. *And it would not
affect other circuits, ie the kitchen. *In short, this doesn't add up.

J

On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 21:17:39 -0500, J wrote:


I think I finally figured out what the problem was. The garage door
opener, which was also about 30 years old, developed some sort of
weird problem in the electronics that allowed it to draw current
without throwing a breaker. The other circuits which were on that
side of the 110 were also affected. After I disconnected the garage
door opener all the other circuits were ok. The hotplates, microwave
etc. went back to normal. Since I checked the panel for loose wires,
circuit breakers etc. and all was ok the only thing it could have been
was the garage door opener and probably the electrolytic capacitor or
some other component has gone bad. There is no obvious burning or
anything in the opener, so now I have to find out if it's repairable
or have to get a new one. Thanks for the help though.

It sounds more likely that during your checking, you tightened a
neutral connection or disconnected the problem that was causing an
unbalanced load (the red wire going to the garage door).

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:13:41 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

The circuits could have been on the same side of the 220v side. The
breaker box is a secondary box from the main house breaker box.
So the disposal, microwave, hotplates etc. could have been on the
same 110v side. The 220 v stuff always worked fine, even when the
other was messing up. So I don't know but there are lots of circuits
off of the breaker box and I checked it out and found no loose
connections or anything, no hot breakers etc. So the only thing
I can think of is that somehow the circuits that the garage door
opener were on were the only ones affected. Somehow maybe
the garage door opener was drawing current but not enough to
throw a breaker, and causing the other appliances to not be able
to function properly. While appliances on the other side of the box
were'nt affected. I plan to talk to an electrician and see what they
think.





I would suggest you get an electrician in to find out
what is going on. There is no way the garage door opener
has anything to do with the garbage disposal running
slow. They are not even on the same circuit, correct?
You could have a serious problem that is intermittent and
has just temporarily disappeared. If there is a lose
connection, partial short, etc somewhere which are some
of the things that could account for what you are seeing
and you don't fix it you run the risk of burning the house down.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your approach is
like saying I replaced the dripping kitchen sink faucet
and now the water heater stopped leaking so it must
have been the kitchen faucet that was responsible
and it's OK.



J

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:31:06 -0400, Metspitzer
wrote:



Yes, all the problems quit after I disconnected the the garage door
opener. It doesn't work at all, I tried it on other outlets by
running a long extension cord from other outlets in the house.
I am planning on trying to see if the garage door company has
any ideas or if it can be fixed.




It sounds more likely that during your checking, you tightened a
neutral connection or disconnected the problem that was causing an
unbalanced load (the red wire going to the garage door).
J

On Apr 30, 1:23*am, J wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:31:06 -0400, Metspitzer
wrote:



Yes, all the problems quit after I disconnected the the garage door
opener. *It doesn't work at all, I tried it on other outlets by
running a long extension cord from other outlets in the house.
I am planning on trying to see if the garage door company has
any ideas or if it can be fixed.

It sounds more likely that during your checking, you tightened a
neutral connection or disconnected the problem that was causing an
unbalanced load (the red wire going to the garage door).

J

replace the opener, new ones have valuable safety devices that detect
anything blocking the door from closing properly.....

could save a kids life

On 4/28/2012 10:17 PM, J wrote:

I think I finally figured out what the problem was. The garage door
opener, which was also about 30 years old, developed some sort of
weird problem in the electronics that allowed it to draw current
without throwing a breaker. The other circuits which were on that
side of the 110 were also affected. After I disconnected the garage
door opener all the other circuits were ok. The hotplates, microwave
etc. went back to normal. Since I checked the panel for loose wires,
circuit breakers etc. and all was ok the only thing it could have been
was the garage door opener and probably the electrolytic capacitor or
some other component has gone bad. There is no obvious burning or
anything in the opener, so now I have to find out if it's repairable
or have to get a new one. Thanks for the help though.



J

Your problem is definitely not the garage door operator . It may
contribute to the problem showing up, but in itself, is not the problem.

On Apr 30, 1:20*am, J wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:13:41 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:

The circuits could have been on the same side of the 220v side.

Which has nothing to do with the kitchen garbage disposal
running slow or the hot plate taking a long time to warm up,
unless something is very wrong and that something can't
be the garage door opener.




*The
breaker box is a secondary box from the main house breaker box.
So the disposal, microwave, hotplates etc. could have been on the
same 110v side.

Which has nothing to do with the kitchen garbage disposal
running slow or the hot plate taking a long time to warm up,
unless something is very wrong and that something can't
be the garage door opener.



The 220 v stuff always worked fine, even when the
other was messing up. *So I don't know but there are lots of circuits
off of the breaker box and I checked it out and found no loose
connections or anything, no hot breakers etc. *So the only thing
I can think of is that somehow the circuits that the garage door
opener were on were the only ones affected. *Somehow maybe
the garage door opener was drawing current but not enough to
throw a breaker, and causing the other appliances to not be able
to function properly.

Unless something else is very wrong somewhere else,
there is no way the garage door opener drawing high
current could cause the issues in the kitchen. Let's say
it pulled 20 amps all day long, which is virtually impossible.
So what? That should never cause the garbage disposal
to slow down and the hot plate to take a long time to heat.
The circuit is there to supply 20A and it should supply 20A.

And as I said before, if the garage door opener was sitting
there drawing current all the time anywhere near the 20A
breaker limit, you'd have something smoking in the garage
door opener, maybe a fire, and it would almost certainly
not go on for very long before something burned out and
the process stopped. Do the math:

120V * 20amps = 2400Watts.





*While appliances on the other side of the box
were'nt affected. *I plan to talk to an electrician and see what they
think.

You've already heard here from one electrician,
RBM and me, an electrical engineer. I strongly suggest you
get an electrician in there before something bad happens.









I would suggest you get an electrician in to find out
what is going on. *There is no way the garage door opener
has anything to do with the garbage disposal running
slow. * They are not even on the same circuit, correct?
You could have a serious problem that is intermittent and
has just temporarily disappeared. *If there is a lose
connection, partial short, etc somewhere which are some
of the things that could account for what you are seeing
and you don't fix it you run the risk of burning the house down.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your approach is
like saying I replaced the dripping kitchen sink faucet
and now the water heater stopped leaking so it must
have been the kitchen faucet that was responsible
and it's OK.

J- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 4/30/2012 4:48 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Apr 30, 1:23 am, wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:31:06 -0400,
wrote:



Yes, all the problems quit after I disconnected the the garage door
opener. It doesn't work at all, I tried it on other outlets by
running a long extension cord from other outlets in the house.
I am planning on trying to see if the garage door company has
any ideas or if it can be fixed.

It sounds more likely that during your checking, you tightened a
neutral connection or disconnected the problem that was causing an
unbalanced load (the red wire going to the garage door).

J

replace the opener, new ones have valuable safety devices that detect
anything blocking the door from closing properly.....

could save a kids life

LMAO! yeah i always mount those pain in the ass eyes above the unit on
the ceiling. They are such a pain. And it all boils down to lack of
parental supervision.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Apr 30, 12:17*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 4/30/2012 4:48 AM, bob haller wrote:





On Apr 30, 1:23 am, *wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:31:06 -0400,
wrote:

Yes, all the problems quit after I disconnected the the garage door
opener. *It doesn't work at all, I tried it on other outlets by
running a long extension cord from other outlets in the house.
I am planning on trying to see if the garage door company has
any ideas or if it can be fixed.

It sounds more likely that during your checking, you tightened a
neutral connection or disconnected the problem that was causing an
unbalanced load (the red wire going to the garage door).

J

replace the opener, new ones have valuable safety devices that detect
anything blocking the door from closing properly.....

could save a kids life

LMAO! *yeah i always mount those pain in the ass eyes above the unit on
the ceiling. *They are such a pain. *And it all boils down to lack of
parental supervision.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I suppose you don't like seat belts and air bags either?

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:16:45 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


Well guys I don't know what the problem was but I know that everything
is working ok now. Maybe one of the guys that replied was right- it
was goblins lol. I plan to have things checked out but the wiring
here is all copper and the outlets are the screw type and all the
connections are tight. The outlets are all three wire too. The
breaker panel wiring is tight so unless it could have to do with
the breakers themselves or the wiring from the box to the outlets I
can't think of much else. I will post if something comes up in the
future on this. Thanks again for all the help.


J

On Apr 30, 1:45*pm, "
wrote:
On Apr 30, 12:17*pm, Steve Barker wrote:









On 4/30/2012 4:48 AM, bob haller wrote:

On Apr 30, 1:23 am, *wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:31:06 -0400,
wrote:

Yes, all the problems quit after I disconnected the the garage door
opener. *It doesn't work at all, I tried it on other outlets by
running a long extension cord from other outlets in the house.
I am planning on trying to see if the garage door company has
any ideas or if it can be fixed.

It sounds more likely that during your checking, you tightened a
neutral connection or disconnected the problem that was causing an
unbalanced load (the red wire going to the garage door).

J

replace the opener, new ones have valuable safety devices that detect
anything blocking the door from closing properly.....

could save a kids life

LMAO! *yeah i always mount those pain in the ass eyes above the unit on
the ceiling. *They are such a pain. *And it all boils down to lack of
parental supervision.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I suppose you don't like seat belts and air bags either?


btw , the electric eye safety systems make "punch & run" a lot more
difficult and potentially more attractive to the 'dare devil' kid.
Even at my age I occasionally 'punch & run' but now it has to be
'punch, run & hop'.

I'd be interested in the cost benefit numbers for GDO safety systems
and estimates of deaths / injuries avoided.

I found the numbers at the last link below......
20 years of data 1974 thru 1995, ~85 children killed or suffered
permanent brain damage. Less than 5 per year.

Garage doors still injure a fair number despite the electric eye
systems.
Steve probably isn't too far off with his comment especially since a
significant percentage of GDO's fail to reverse properly when
encountering an obstruction.

Probably the best instruction to kids.....stay away from a moving
door.

A foolproof GDO is nearly impossible to achieve........idiot resistant
is probably the best that can be expected.

http://www.garagedoorchildsafety.com/injury_report.html
http://www.coveryourgaragedoortracks.com/statistics.htm
http://www.prlog.org/11649315-garage...till-ugly.html

http://www.aaaremotes.com/gadosapryove.html

cheers
Bob

On Apr 30, 10:53*pm, DD_BobK wrote:
On Apr 30, 1:45*pm, "
wrote:





On Apr 30, 12:17*pm, Steve Barker wrote:

On 4/30/2012 4:48 AM, bob haller wrote:

On Apr 30, 1:23 am, *wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:31:06 -0400,
wrote:

Yes, all the problems quit after I disconnected the the garage door
opener. *It doesn't work at all, I tried it on other outlets by
running a long extension cord from other outlets in the house.
I am planning on trying to see if the garage door company has
any ideas or if it can be fixed.

It sounds more likely that during your checking, you tightened a
neutral connection or disconnected the problem that was causing an
unbalanced load (the red wire going to the garage door).

J

replace the opener, new ones have valuable safety devices that detect
anything blocking the door from closing properly.....

could save a kids life

LMAO! *yeah i always mount those pain in the ass eyes above the unit on
the ceiling. *They are such a pain. *And it all boils down to lack of
parental supervision.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I suppose you don't like seat belts and air bags either?

btw , the electric eye safety systems make "punch & run" a lot more
difficult and potentially more attractive to the 'dare devil' kid.
Even at my age I occasionally 'punch & run' but now it has to be
'punch, run & hop'.

I'd be interested in the cost benefit numbers for GDO safety systems
and estimates of deaths / injuries avoided.

I found the numbers at the last link below......
20 years of data 1974 thru 1995, ~85 children killed or suffered
permanent brain damage. Less than 5 per year.

Garage doors still injure a fair number despite the electric eye
systems.
Steve probably isn't too far off with his comment especially since a
significant percentage of GDO's fail to reverse properly when
encountering an obstruction.

Probably the best instruction to kids.....stay away from a moving
door.

A foolproof GDO is nearly impossible to achieve........idiot resistant
is probably the best that can be expected.

http://www.garagedoorchildsafety.com...till-ugly.html

http://www.aaaremotes.com/gadosapryove.html

cheers
Bob

no hopping needed, install a touch pad outside they are very
convenient........

or a simple push button that can be reached from outside.

wrote:

LMAO! yeah i always mount those pain in the ass eyes above the unit
on the ceiling. They are such a pain. And it all boils down to lack
of parental supervision.

I suppose you don't like seat belts and air bags either?

Don't you want your children to have all the opportunities you had?

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:04:34 -0400, RBM wrote:

Well I got new garage door opener, couldn't find parts for old one,
and all is working well again. No problem with garage door, or other
appliances. So don't know for sure what the problem was but all is
well now. Besides I have fire insurance just in case!

J