Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection. Yesterday when I was
messing with the ceiling light fixture over the shower I was wearing
my glasses and still got something in my eye. Luckily I washed it out
but I'm a little sensitive about my surgical enhanced eye sight so I
want to wear work goggles from now on. It's amazing how much I took
for granted when I was younger and now with age, look at things
differently. Thanks all.

"Doug" wrote in news:ckahl7djdm14qrf2fa4h3kcork5f7rs91b@
4ax.com:

Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection.

Faceshield.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_74556-98-900...ductId=3082689

That's pretty much what I was going to say. Good advice.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
"Doug" wrote in
news:ckahl7djdm14qrf2fa4h3kcork5f7rs91b@
4ax.com:

Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection.

Faceshield.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_74556-98-900...ductId=3082689

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:VJ26r.42889
:

[top-posting and screwed-up quoting fixed]

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
"Doug" wrote in
:

Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection.

Faceshield.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_74556-98-900...ductId=3082689

That's pretty much what I was going to say. Good advice.

The thing many people forget is that there's more stuff on your face that needs protecting
than just your eyes -- imagine catching a saw kickback in the teeth, for instance. I had a
violent kickback from a chop saw about a year ago, cutting a small piece that I really
should have clamped down. I'm not sure quite how it happened, but the piece was
wrenched out of my hand and thrown into the faceshield hard enough to knock it off of my
head, and partway across the room. I never saw it. Just felt, and heard, the impact on the
shield. Then heard the shield clattering on the floor. Never found the piece of wood, either.

On 3/8/2012 12:04 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
"Stormin wrote in news:VJ26r.42889
:

[top-posting and screwed-up quoting fixed]

"Doug wrote in message
. ..
wrote in
:

Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection.

Faceshield.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_74556-98-900...ductId=3082689

That's pretty much what I was going to say. Good advice.

The thing many people forget is that there's more stuff on your face that needs protecting
than just your eyes (snipped)

You are definitely correct! A few years back I was using my bench
grinder and a piece of metal caught and flew out hitting me in the
mouth. The cut lip didn't amount to much (just a very few stitches) but
it knocked one tooth out, broke another one off, and loosened two
others. The dentist though he could save the two loose ones but that
didn't happen. Then end result was a $10,800 bill for several fake
non-removable teeth. As they are not removable I am not sure if it is
called a "bridge" or not.

Don

On 3/8/2012 2:55 PM, IGot2P wrote:
On 3/8/2012 12:04 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
"Stormin wrote in
news:VJ26r.42889
:

[top-posting and screwed-up quoting fixed]

"Doug wrote in message
. ..
wrote in
:

Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection.

Faceshield.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_74556-98-900...ductId=3082689

That's pretty much what I was going to say. Good advice.

The thing many people forget is that there's more stuff on your face
that needs protecting
than just your eyes (snipped)

You are definitely correct! A few years back I was using my bench
grinder and a piece of metal caught and flew out hitting me in the
mouth. The cut lip didn't amount to much (just a very few stitches) but
it knocked one tooth out, broke another one off, and loosened two
others. The dentist though he could save the two loose ones but that
didn't happen. Then end result was a $10,800 bill for several fake
non-removable teeth. As they are not removable I am not sure if it is
called a "bridge" or not.

Don


I double agree. I've used a face shield like that for years. Mine has a
nice ratchet on the back so I can easily clamp it to my head. It's
especially comforting when I'm standing at the wire wheel hearing the
tink-tinking of steel wires flying off and bouncing off the shield, as
opposed to sticking in my eyes.
Years ago I was cutting steel with a sawzall and no eye protection.
Without even realizing it, small particles of hot metal were hitting me
in the eye. Three of them burned and embeded into my cornea, which of
course had to be dug out. Not particularly pleasant

"IGot2P" wrote in message
...
On 3/8/2012 12:04 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
"Stormin wrote in
news:VJ26r.42889
:

[top-posting and screwed-up quoting fixed]

"Doug wrote in message
. ..
wrote in
:

Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection.

Faceshield.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_74556-98-900...ductId=3082689

That's pretty much what I was going to say. Good advice.

The thing many people forget is that there's more stuff on your face
that needs protecting
than just your eyes (snipped)

You are definitely correct! A few years back I was using my bench
grinder and a piece of metal caught and flew out hitting me in the
mouth. The cut lip didn't amount to much (just a very few stitches) but
it knocked one tooth out, broke another one off, and loosened two
others. The dentist though he could save the two loose ones but that
didn't happen. Then end result was a $10,800 bill for several fake
non-removable teeth. As they are not removable I am not sure if it is
called a "bridge" or not.

They are called "a very expensive lesson about wearing a faceshield next
time." My friend's kid hit a telephone bowl (oops, pole! - senior moment)
in his dad's huge old car and drove three front teeth up into his gums.
They spent an hour looking for the missing teeth before realizing they had
been rammed upward and were still in his mouth. Fixing that up came close
to $20,000.

With all these tales of serious maiming, I may even pick up another face
shield so I can always have one upstairs with the compressor and downstairs
with the radial arm saw and/or a spare for "guest workers."

--
Bobby G.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.. .
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
news:VJ26r.42889
:

[top-posting and screwed-up quoting fixed]

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
"Doug" wrote in
:

Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection.

Faceshield.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_74556-98-900...ductId=3082689

That's pretty much what I was going to say. Good advice.

The thing many people forget is that there's more stuff on your face that
needs protecting
than just your eyes -- imagine catching a saw kickback in the teeth, for
instance. I had a
violent kickback from a chop saw about a year ago, cutting a small piece
that I really
should have clamped down. I'm not sure quite how it happened, but the
piece was
wrenched out of my hand and thrown into the faceshield hard enough to
knock it off of my
head, and partway across the room. I never saw it. Just felt, and heard,
the impact on the
shield. Then heard the shield clattering on the floor. Never found the
piece of wood, either.

With all these endorsements, a face shield should run for president! Sounds
like your bacon was saved by one for sure.

But seriously, you make an excellent point. There are plenty of stuff
besides eyes that need protecting. I've known more than one guy who's had a
front tooth knocked out from an saw accident. I had the rear fence clamps
vibrate free on my RAS once. Not fun. Had a 3 headed molding shaper blade
contact the support column of the saw at full RPM and it spit pieces of
broken shaper blade out at ballistic speeds. One broken blade embedded
itself in the joist above the saw. I never used a shaper blade on the RAS
since that day. I still use a carbide-tipped variable angle dado blade, but
that stays inside the blade cover. The shape head had to be run cover-free,
IIRC. It was back in the early 80's.

--
Bobby G.

Now, that's fortunate, that you were wearing a face shield. You might have
been hurt.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.. .

The thing many people forget is that there's more stuff on your face that
needs protecting
than just your eyes -- imagine catching a saw kickback in the teeth, for
instance. I had a
violent kickback from a chop saw about a year ago, cutting a small piece
that I really
should have clamped down. I'm not sure quite how it happened, but the piece
was
wrenched out of my hand and thrown into the faceshield hard enough to knock
it off of my
head, and partway across the room. I never saw it. Just felt, and heard, the
impact on the
shield. Then heard the shield clattering on the floor. Never found the piece
of wood, either.


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
news:VJ26r.42889
:

That's pretty much what I was going to say. Good advice.

"Doug" wrote in message
...
Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection. Yesterday when I was
messing with the ceiling light fixture over the shower I was wearing
my glasses and still got something in my eye. Luckily I washed it out
but I'm a little sensitive about my surgical enhanced eye sight so I
want to wear work goggles from now on. It's amazing how much I took
for granted when I was younger and now with age, look at things
differently. Thanks all.

After drilling through old, dusty joists this weekend with a face shield I
became a convert. I will never use anything but a full face shield to work
on the ceiling or anything over my head. After years of struggling with
glasses/goggles combos that fit poorly, have openings that allow material to
"ricochet" into the sides or tops and that fog up easily, I was very happy
with my $13 full face shield - once I peeled the protective plastic from
BOTH side of the lens. (-: Remember, one little sliver getting through can
cause serious, irreversible problems. I had to add material to the top to
really seal it all up, but that was easy.

--
Bobby G.

On 3/8/2012 7:52 AM, Doug wrote:
Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection. Yesterday when I was
messing with the ceiling light fixture over the shower I was wearing
my glasses and still got something in my eye. Luckily I washed it out
but I'm a little sensitive about my surgical enhanced eye sight so I
want to wear work goggles from now on. It's amazing how much I took
for granted when I was younger and now with age, look at things
differently. Thanks all.

I'd look at laboratory supply places like this:

http://www.daigger.com/catalog/produ...ratory+Goggles

I worked in a lab and we had goggles that fit over glasses in our stock
room. Don't know who made them.

I still have several pairs of prescription safety glasses that I use
when doing yard work or shooting. You could get them with side shields
but they were uncomfortable to wear all the time.

You might also look at some of the internet glasses sites, maybe get a
cheap pair of prescription goggles.

"Doug" wrote:

Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection. Yesterday when I was
messing with the ceiling light fixture over the shower I was wearing
my glasses and still got something in my eye. Luckily I washed it out
but I'm a little sensitive about my surgical enhanced eye sight so I
want to wear work goggles from now on. It's amazing how much I took
for granted when I was younger and now with age, look at things
differently. Thanks all.

Keeping crap out of your eyes is important-- Keeping it out of your
hair, ears, nose, mouth, beard, shirt pocket and shoulders is handy.

I go for the full hard-hat and face shield from HF
http://www.harborfreight.com/abrasiv...ood-38138.html

$20- I bought it for sandblasting. I use it whenever I'm doing
above-the-head dirty work.

Jim

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...
"Doug" wrote:

Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection. Yesterday when I was
messing with the ceiling light fixture over the shower I was wearing
my glasses and still got something in my eye. Luckily I washed it out
but I'm a little sensitive about my surgical enhanced eye sight so I
want to wear work goggles from now on. It's amazing how much I took
for granted when I was younger and now with age, look at things
differently. Thanks all.

Keeping crap out of your eyes is important-- Keeping it out of your
hair, ears, nose, mouth, beard, shirt pocket and shoulders is handy.

I go for the full hard-hat and face shield from HF
http://www.harborfreight.com/abrasiv...ood-38138.html

$20- I bought it for sandblasting. I use it whenever I'm doing
above-the-head dirty work.

Looks interesting but doesn't it get sweaty and fog up inside? My face
shield with the Arab Spaceman towel attachment (TM - patent pending) doesn't
offer a lot of head protection, but it's usually my eyes that I am most
concerned about. The face shield appears to offer double or even triple the
viewing area of the sandblasting hood.

Still, for 20 bucks I'll probably pick one up the next time I go to HF. I
spent $400 there in one visit, but they cut my catalogs off three months
later. That's probably not a good model to follow, marketing-wise. I think
I can request them at their site, but almost every other vendor I know likes
to keep marketing to people that spend a lot of money in one visit. From
what I saw, the average sale was between $20 and $100.

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Green" wrote:

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message

-snip-

I go for the full hard-hat and face shield from HF
http://www.harborfreight.com/abrasiv...ood-38138.html

$20- I bought it for sandblasting. I use it whenever I'm doing
above-the-head dirty work.

Looks interesting but doesn't it get sweaty and fog up inside?

Sweaty, yes-- but I prefer sweat to blood and mud. Foggy, no. I
use a bottle of anti-fog that we bought for my son when he was a
hockey goalie. Rubbing alcohol will work, but it gets me high.

Someplace I saw a guy run a compressor hose into his for positive
pressure and cool air. I really don't have enough air for
sandblasting [shoot 30 seconds- wait 20. . repeat] so I've never
tried it. For inside work, I can stand the sweat for longer than I
can keep my arms up and head back.

My face
shield with the Arab Spaceman towel attachment (TM - patent pending) doesn't
offer a lot of head protection, but it's usually my eyes that I am most
concerned about. The face shield appears to offer double or even triple the
viewing area of the sandblasting hood.

Good point-- But I'm usually concentrating on a pretty small area
when I'm wearing it.

Still, for 20 bucks I'll probably pick one up the next time I go to HF. I
spent $400 there in one visit, but they cut my catalogs off three months
later.

I don't think I've ever seen a 'catalog'. I get their [20 page?]
fliers weekly. I might have hit $400 once-- but $1-200 is a 'big'
day for me.

That's probably not a good model to follow, marketing-wise. I think
I can request them at their site, but almost every other vendor I know likes
to keep marketing to people that spend a lot of money in one visit. From
what I saw, the average sale was between $20 and $100.

I stopped in for a $6 item last week- spent $40- and was thinking on
the way out that I got off cheap. Damn candy stores.

Jim

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

Looks interesting but doesn't it get sweaty and fog up inside?

Sweaty, yes-- but I prefer sweat to blood and mud. Foggy, no. I
use a bottle of anti-fog that we bought for my son when he was a
hockey goalie. Rubbing alcohol will work, but it gets me high.

I've never had much luck with anti-fog stuff. What do you use?

Someplace I saw a guy run a compressor hose into his for positive
pressure and cool air. I really don't have enough air for
sandblasting [shoot 30 seconds- wait 20. . repeat] so I've never
tried it. For inside work, I can stand the sweat for longer than I
can keep my arms up and head back.

Sounds like 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. (-: Good idea, though. I know
I've seen something like that with a fan mounted in the hood and a battery
pack to power it. That might be easier than being tethered to a compressor
hose.

My face
shield with the Arab Spaceman towel attachment (TM - patent pending)
doesn't
offer a lot of head protection, but it's usually my eyes that I am most
concerned about. The face shield appears to offer double or even triple
the
viewing area of the sandblasting hood.

Good point-- But I'm usually concentrating on a pretty small area
when I'm wearing it.

Makes sense. Still, after DerbyDad described how he nearly gored himself,
I'm all for as much peripheral vision as I can get.

Still, for 20 bucks I'll probably pick one up the next time I go to HF.
I
spent $400 there in one visit, but they cut my catalogs off three months
later.

I don't think I've ever seen a 'catalog'. I get their [20 page?]
fliers weekly. I might have hit $400 once-- but $1-200 is a 'big'
day for me.

I should have said flyer - I think they're 20 or so pages, tabloid style.

That's probably not a good model to follow, marketing-wise. I think
I can request them at their site, but almost every other vendor I know
likes
to keep marketing to people that spend a lot of money in one visit. From
what I saw, the average sale was between $20 and $100.

I stopped in for a $6 item last week- spent $40- and was thinking on
the way out that I got off cheap. Damn candy stores.

Mine's far enough away that I never just go for one item with Home Depot 3
blocks away. I saw a similar propane torch for $60 in HD that I got at HF
for $20. So on stuff like that, I make the trek and obliterate the savings
by overspending on things I really don't need. $400 was a big ticket for me
because I bought an flexible inspection camera (for about half of what HD
was selling a cosmetically "purtier" one that looked like the same basic
guts inside). And a digital caliper, and a torch, and quick disconnects for
the hoses, and some screwdrivers, and a tweezer set, and a $3 meter and
loads and loads of other $5 to $10 stuff I can't recall.

--
Bobby G.

On 2012-03-08, Doug wrote:
Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection.


For a real cheapo quick alternative, visit a welding supply store.
They have all kindsa eye protection. I once picked up a half dozen
pairs of brazing glasses on the close-out table fer $10. Took off the
side sheilds and used 'em fer sunglasses (5 diff levels of darkness
tint). I can't think of a more eye-ball dangerous overhead work job
than muffler repair man. In fact, as a quickie when I had crawl under
my truck, I put clear lenses in my old acetylene welding goggles. You
know, those bug-eyed alien looking goggles. Not prescription, but
kept the rust flakes outta my eyes while knocking around under there.

Optometrist who carry a line of safety glasses frames (most do),
should have some models with side sheilds. Get the kind with hook
temples and a fine mesh screen on the side to allow plenty of air
circulation so they don't fog.

Most folks don't realize safety glasses are a good alternative to
those absurdly expensive "designer" frames one sees in the main show
room. Ya' usually hafta ask to see a catalog. I discovered this and
started buying safety glasses frames for normal eye wear, years ago.
I rarely ever pay more than $50-100 for excellent frames in many
current fashions. One pair were all stainless steel frames and only
cost about $60. I still have a pair of aviator style frames I bought
over 20 yrs ago fer $40!

nb

--
Fight internet CENSORSHIP - Fight SOPA-PIPA
Contact your congressman and/or representative, now!
http://projects.propublica.org/sopa/
vi --the heart of evil!

On 3/8/2012 8:02 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2012-03-08, wrote:
Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection.


For a real cheapo quick alternative, visit a welding supply store.
They have all kindsa eye protection. I once picked up a half dozen
pairs of brazing glasses on the close-out table fer $10. Took off the
side sheilds and used 'em fer sunglasses (5 diff levels of darkness
tint). I can't think of a more eye-ball dangerous overhead work job
than muffler repair man. In fact, as a quickie when I had crawl under
my truck, I put clear lenses in my old acetylene welding goggles. You
know, those bug-eyed alien looking goggles. Not prescription, but
kept the rust flakes outta my eyes while knocking around under there.

Optometrist who carry a line of safety glasses frames (most do),
should have some models with side sheilds. Get the kind with hook
temples and a fine mesh screen on the side to allow plenty of air
circulation so they don't fog.

Most folks don't realize safety glasses are a good alternative to
those absurdly expensive "designer" frames one sees in the main show
room. Ya' usually hafta ask to see a catalog. I discovered this and
started buying safety glasses frames for normal eye wear, years ago.
I rarely ever pay more than $50-100 for excellent frames in many
current fashions. One pair were all stainless steel frames and only
cost about $60. I still have a pair of aviator style frames I bought
over 20 yrs ago fer $40!

nb


you can buy frames from zenni optical online for $10. you just ask for
unground lenses with no perscription.

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 06:52:13 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection. Yesterday when I was
messing with the ceiling light fixture over the shower I was wearing
my glasses and still got something in my eye. Luckily I washed it out
but I'm a little sensitive about my surgical enhanced eye sight so I
want to wear work goggles from now on. It's amazing how much I took
for granted when I was younger and now with age, look at things
differently. Thanks all.

Google for goggles, or goggle for googles!

It is important to take every precaution possible to keep any airborne
metal particles, even the seemingly minute metal powder flying off a
grinding wheel, that you can blink off.

Besides the obvious harm that can be caused by a sliver of metal in your
eyes, If you ever need an MRI of anything above your shoulders, they
will insist you have an x-ray first, to see if any tiny particles of
metal are in your eyes.

The powerful magnetic field in MRIs will suck any such metal right out
through your eyeballs.

"Doug" wrote in message
...
Any recommendations for this? I'd like to wear my glasses within it
if possible and have full eye protection. Yesterday when I was
messing with the ceiling light fixture over the shower I was wearing
my glasses and still got something in my eye. Luckily I washed it out
but I'm a little sensitive about my surgical enhanced eye sight so I
want to wear work goggles from now on. It's amazing how much I took
for granted when I was younger and now with age, look at things
differently. Thanks all.

Lots of good advice and anecdotal evidence. I would just add that if
you wear prescription glasses, you can get prescription safety glasses with
side shields. In true safety glasses, the frames have certain ANSI
standards that enable them to keep the lenses in place if they are ever
impacted. You would not want the lens to pop out if something hits them.
The lenses themselves also have ANSI specs and must have a minimum
thickness. The lens lab will make them at least that thick no matter what
the prescription. The side shields can be solid or a fine mesh screen,
whatever applies to your particular situation. Goggles are not really
designed for serious impact. They are meant for liquid splashes. Yes, they
can handle minor impact but I would not rely on them where the major hazard
is moderate to severe impact.

I want to point out that most face shields are NOT designed for serious
impact. They are intended to be worn over safety glasses. They can handle
light to moderate impact but, as one poster reported, the whole shield flew
off his head when impacted. If the trajectory of the wood was different,
there might have been a more serious result.

Good Luck.

"Baron" wrote in message
news:4f5a6cc6$0$17348$882e7ee2@usenet-

stuff snipped

I want to point out that most face shields are NOT designed for
serious
impact. They are intended to be worn over safety glasses. They can
handle
light to moderate impact but, as one poster reported, the whole shield
flew
off his head when impacted. If the trajectory of the wood was different,
there might have been a more serious result.

All excellent points. It's probably important to remember that for most
people I know, (and is seems at least a few posters here) it's wearing
nothing at all or foolishly depending on regular eyeglasses. A face shield
was a big step up for me. Based on what I read, I'm not the only one who
took some "convincing" to go out and get one. Part of the great value of
newsgroups like AHR is to speed the spread of good ideas. I'll bet at least
a few posters have face shields on the list for the next hardware store
visit. (-:

I remember working with a metal shaper (marked "War Department") in high
school. It was a huge, belt driven ram sort of device that pushes a tool
bit over the metal stock, moving slightly each time. The ram head was sort
of the size and shape of the creature's head in the Aliens movies.

The normal bite of each stroke way less than 1/8" but if you failed to
securely tighten the height adjustment, the shaper head would take one
properly sized cut when the ram moved forward. Then, the ram pulled back
and the stock table jogged to the left to expose new material to cut.
Normally, the tool bit and holder would clear the work on the back stroke,
the table would shift and the ram and tool bit would come forward at the
same height to take another "slice."

If the height adjustment was too loose, it would often hold for the first
stroke, but then the vibration of the backstroke would loosen the whole tool
bit assembly and it would drop down to the bottom stop. Way below the
surface of the work and the vise that held it. Then, the whole ram head
swing forward and would smash into the vise table about two or three inches
below where it should be. It rang like a bell, the floor shook, the belt
stopped and people jumped right out of their skins. No face shield, just
pretty crappy over-the glasses, elastic band goggles.

That huge ram sounded just like a bad car crash when it hit the table hard.
No one was ever hurt that I know of, but it was the event of the day in
metalworking. IIRC (and IMNRC - this was 50 years ago) most metal shop
injuries came about by guys screwing around with the long coils of (I used
to know this word) metal that came off the lathes as they cut. They were
hot, they were razor sharp and sometimes if you didn't clear them they would
wrap around the spinning work and whip you but good. Foundry on the other
hand was famous for foot injuries (those sand filled molds are HEAVY!) and
hernias.

For whatever reason, they stopped actually casting things in the green sands
of the 8th floor foundry with its huge glass ceiling, the panels operated
from 40 feet below by wheels and chains. I believe it was built in 1908
when Brooklyn Tech was the center for training in all things industrial. I
heard they stopped pouring metal because kids were making very accurate
castings of guns. I suspect the mere thought of high school boys
jackassing molten metal around in NYC was just too much for the school
adminstrator's hearts. (This was long before it was *forced* to go co-ed.)
AFAIK, they kept teaching foundry for years but without molten metal. Kind
of misses the point!

We had projects that continued through each grade. In four years I learned
to free hand draw a spanner wrench, then make mechanical drawings of it,
then make a wood pattern for it and finally casting the wood pattern in
metal. Then we would machine the rough spanner wrench casting in metal shop
and heat treat it in metallurgy class where we also tested hardeness and
other qualities.

While it was more fun than calculus, most of the shop classes eventually
turned out to be equally useless in my work career. The best part about it
was learning how to take a project from beginning to end. That turned out
to be a useful skill in managing large software projects. That and a book
by what was then Touche-Ross, a big accounting firm. Ever come across a
single book that explains all the inside tricks of a trade? It was a
compendium of everything they had learned putting huge corporate systems
together on mainframes. Ironically, the same problems plague large
mainframe and small PC networked systems.

--
Bobby G.