I'm sure nothing is perfect - but - I'm curious how bad these obvious
(after the fact) mistakes are in laying mortar & sandstone on a concrete
footing.

Here are some bubbles that come up for a few minutes after spraying the
newly laid stone with water:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508817.jpg

And, this crack developed overnight against the foundation wall:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508819.jpg

And, this stone was laid with almost zero distance to the foundation wall:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508821.jpg

I realize not much can be done for these three errors ... but ... since I
have 20 more stones to go ... what SHOULD I have done to not make these
mistakes in the first place?

On 2/6/2012 12:51 PM, Chuck Banshee wrote:
I'm sure nothing is perfect - but - I'm curious how bad these obvious
(after the fact) mistakes are in laying mortar& sandstone on a concrete
footing.

Here are some bubbles that come up for a few minutes after spraying the
newly laid stone with water:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508817.jpg

this isn't fixable. if water gets into that bubble and freezes, it will
expand and crack something else. fix it then.

And, this crack developed overnight against the foundation wall:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508819.jpg

generally, since the concrete will move and shrink, it's likely
impossible to avoid this.

And, this stone was laid with almost zero distance to the foundation wall:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508821.jpg

the solution for the previous one and this one is to use the product
that's meant to prevent this. it's a bendy board, sometimes made out of
a tarred cardboard or some such material it's flexible, and lasts for years.

they sell a product in a tube, used like bathroom caulk, to fix these
types of errors. in the same section as where you bought the bagged
concrete in HD.

I realize not much can be done for these three errors ... but ... since I
have 20 more stones to go ... what SHOULD I have done to not make these
mistakes in the first place?

Chuck Banshee wrote:
I'm sure nothing is perfect - but - I'm curious how bad these obvious
(after the fact) mistakes are in laying mortar & sandstone on a
concrete footing.

Here are some bubbles that come up for a few minutes after spraying
the newly laid stone with water:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508817.jpg

The mortar wasn't packed tight, had air space(s).

And, this crack developed overnight against the foundation wall:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508819.jpg

Cement/mortar/concrete cracks. The crack in your picture looks too small to
get in more mortar. Be sure to pack in the grout. You might want to smooth
it a bit more too (as you go, not after the fact).


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Mon, 6 Feb 2012 19:51:59 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee
wrote:

I'm sure nothing is perfect - but - I'm curious how bad these obvious
(after the fact) mistakes are in laying mortar & sandstone on a concrete
footing.

Here are some bubbles that come up for a few minutes after spraying the
newly laid stone with water:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508817.jpg


Mix too wet. You can't pour mortar.
You can patch it later if it troubles you.
..
And, this crack developed overnight against the foundation wall:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508819.jpg

Mix too sandy.


And, this stone was laid with almost zero distance to the foundation wall:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7508821.jpg

I realize not much can be done for these three errors ... but ... since I
have 20 more stones to go ... what SHOULD I have done to not make these
mistakes in the first place?

Try to keep the joints at least 1/2" wide.
Always use spacers where it looks tight.
You might need to chisel it out later for repair.
Use measuring pails to get a consistent mix.
Don't try to eyeball it.
Don't mix more than you can use in about 45 minutes or less.

--Vic

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:50:28 -0600, Vic Smith wrote:
Don't mix more than you can use in about 45 minutes or less.

Well, I tried doing one bag at a time (about 3 stones) - but it drove me
crazy over the range of 20 stones!
http://picturepush.com/public/7516523

So, in the end, I did three bags at a time:
http://picturepush.com/host.php?image=7516525

On Feb 7, 3:20*pm, Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:50:28 -0600, Vic Smith wrote:
Don't mix more than you can use in about 45 minutes or less.

Well, I tried doing one bag at a time (about 3 stones) - but it drove me
crazy over the range of 20 stones!
*http://picturepush.com/public/7516523

So, in the end, I did three bags at a time:
*http://picturepush.com/host.php?image=7516525

Did you keep that mortar wet while it was curing?

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 12:44:34 -0800, wrote:
Did you keep that mortar wet while it was curing?

At first, I TRIED (I really did) to just do one bag of mortar at a time
as shown he
http://picturepush.com/public/7516914

But, after a couple of hours of THAT, I gave up and just did the rest of
the stones en masse in the same wet glop of concrete & mortar (I had to
add concrete because I ran out of mortar).

BTW, I'm not sure what you mean by the 'curing' phase.

Do you mean the first hour or the first few days (I thought curing was
what takes place over the next three days)?

If you mean the first hour, the answer is yes.

But, what happened is more complicated than just keeping it wet. To give
you an idea, it took 7 hours from the placement of the first stone to the
20th stone ... so I had to keep the ENTIRE set wet during that time.

One trick I tried was pulling the stones up and spraying below them ...
but of course, that obliterated my all-important chalk line ... so I gave
up on that.

Then, I tried wetting with a garden water container - but that just dug
holes in the mortar and washed the cement & lime away from the concrete -
so I gave up on that.

Finally, I resorted to lifting the stones out and soaking them in a tub
of water as shown he
http://picturepush.com/public/7516905

A couple of times I pulled the stone out of the tub and inserted it
backward, so I started to learn to MARK the ends of the stones (I had
markings on the top which disappeared during the construction process).

On Feb 7, 4:00*pm, Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 12:44:34 -0800, wrote:
Did you keep that mortar wet while it was curing?

At first, I TRIED (I really did) to just do one bag of mortar at a time
as shown he
*http://picturepush.com/public/7516914

But, after a couple of hours of THAT, I gave up and just did the rest of
the stones en masse in the same wet glop of concrete & mortar (I had to
add concrete because I ran out of mortar).

BTW, I'm not sure what you mean by the 'curing' phase.

Do you mean the first hour or the first few days (I thought curing was
what takes place over the next three days)?

It's what happens during the chemical reaction
over a long period until the
concrete reaches it's final hardness. It's one
of those decaying exponential curve things where
it reaches like 80% or something of final hardness in
the first few days. So the period when it's most
important to keep it wet is during the first few
days. Worst case is if it's hot, sunny, etc and
you don't keep it wet. Then it dries out instead
of curing and it falls apart. Drying out is going
to be worse when you have small joints instead
of a slab.

As someone else told you, I would
recommend placing the stones farther apart
giving you 3/4" or more between them. I
saw one pic where you had cracking in an
area smaller than a pencil right next to existing
concrete. That kind of spot I'd never put mortar
in. I'd use a caulk type product that has some
give, perhaps one of the caulks that looks like
cement.





If you mean the first hour, the answer is yes.

But, what happened is more complicated than just keeping it wet. To give
you an idea, it took 7 hours from the placement of the first stone to the
20th stone ... so I had to keep the ENTIRE set wet during that time.

Should be easy to do with a light mist from a nozzle.



One trick I tried was pulling the stones up and spraying below them ...
but of course, that obliterated my all-important chalk line ... so I gave
up on that.

Pulling them up? WTF?


Then, I tried wetting with a garden water container - but that just dug
holes in the mortar and washed the cement & lime away from the concrete -
so I gave up on that.

Finally, I resorted to lifting the stones out and soaking them in a tub
of water as shown he
*http://picturepush.com/public/7516905

A couple of times I pulled the stone out of the tub and inserted it
backward, so I started to learn to MARK the ends of the stones (I had
markings on the top which disappeared during the construction process).

OMG. I hope you're kidding, but I fear you're not.

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 17:46:35 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Worst case is if it's hot, sunny, etc and
you don't keep it wet. Then it dries out instead
of curing and it falls apart. Drying out is going
to be worse when you have small joints instead
of a slab.

I'm down the road from Hoover Dam.

Had they not used water for cooling the concrete, in passages
built-in, it would cure so slowly the heat would rise to like 700F? It
may have taken 300 years to cure ISTR.

Mist the work....