In another thread, you guys helped me on constructing a simple flagstone
walkway.

Today I bought two levels to ensure that I get the water runoff right.

Checking the existing level of the existing flagstone shelf, I am
surprised to see almost no perceptible slope on the flagstone shelves
that were done years ago by professionals (presumably when the house was
built).

Here is a picture of the lengthwise slope:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7478468.jpg

Widthwise, the slope is perceptible - but it's sloping TOWARD the
foundation (and not away from the foundation). Does that make sense?
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7478493.jpg

For my new shelf (walkway) just below (to the left) where this picture is
taken - would you slope it away from the wall - or toward the wall as the
old shelves appear to be?
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7478518.jpg

On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 06:01:51 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee
wrote:

In another thread, you guys helped me on constructing a simple flagstone
walkway.

Today I bought two levels to ensure that I get the water runoff right.

Checking the existing level of the existing flagstone shelf, I am
surprised to see almost no perceptible slope on the flagstone shelves
that were done years ago by professionals (presumably when the house was
built).

Here is a picture of the lengthwise slope:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7478468.jpg

Widthwise, the slope is perceptible - but it's sloping TOWARD the
foundation (and not away from the foundation). Does that make sense?
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7478493.jpg

For my new shelf (walkway) just below (to the left) where this picture is
taken - would you slope it away from the wall - or toward the wall as the
old shelves appear to be?
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7478518.jpg


I have to wonder if it was laid with pitch away and settled/rose over
the years.

Chuck Banshee wrote:
In another thread, you guys helped me on constructing a simple
flagstone walkway.

Today I bought two levels to ensure that I get the water runoff right.

Checking the existing level of the existing flagstone shelf, I am
surprised to see almost no perceptible slope on the flagstone shelves
that were done years ago by professionals (presumably when the house
was built).

Here is a picture of the lengthwise slope:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7478468.jpg

Widthwise, the slope is perceptible - but it's sloping TOWARD the
foundation (and not away from the foundation). Does that make sense?
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7478493.jpg

Not to me. I have a block/stucco kneewall around our courtyard. Top is
capped with casr concrete "stepping stones" that overhang the blocks. At
one end of the wal where it butts the house wall, the cap stone was sloped
toward the house. Result? The grout joint was constantly damp; that
dampness migrated to the house block wall and was apparent by the house
paint being darker in that area. I finally knocked the cap off and sloped
it in the other direction. IIRC, I sloped it about 3/8" over its 16"
length.

For my new shelf (walkway) just below (to the left) where this
picture is taken - would you slope it away from the wall - or toward
the wall as the old shelves appear to be?
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...mg/7478518.jpg

Away.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

The slope, for drainage, of any walkway structure (and of the lawn,
wherever possible) should be away from the dwelling.

Sidewalks, to my recollection, are sloped 1/4" per 4' span (width).

The slope of the run should be away from any structure and the amount
of run slope may be dependent on the surrrounding lawn contours and
dependent on the amount of runoff guaged, calculated or anticipated
for the area, yet not compromise the comfortable/aesthetic use of the
walkway.

For a walkway not near a structure, a slight crown, in the center of
the walkway, is often formed, for drainage to each side.

*Our local city engineers claim "their standards" (sic), for public
projects, allow for 1' drop for every 12' run, when/where necessary
(sic). I've learned "when/where necessary" means (covering their ass)
when and where they screw up and have to manipulate the project
scenario to limit/reduce the screw up/damage to a minimum. Maybe the
professionals, who did your flagstone work when the house was built,
once worked for your local govt.

As Ed noted, I suspect some of the old work has likely settled/rose
and is now sloped toward the house.

Sonny

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 07:56:49 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

Does that make sense?
Not to me.
I sloped it about 3/8" over its 16" length.

Mine is about that length so I'll use your 3/8" number for my slope away
from the house on the one end. And I'll do a slight slope AWAY from the
wall of the water feature on the other ends.

I'm worried that the mortar will set on the first stone before I finish
the last one (there are about 18 uneven thickness stones to set, not
counting triangles to fill gaps).

I'll try it today after snapping a final picture and asking any last
minute questions.

On Feb 3, 11:03*am, Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 07:56:49 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
Does that make sense?
Not to me.
I sloped it about 3/8" over its 16" length.

Mine is about that length so I'll use your 3/8" number for my slope away
from the house on the one end. And I'll do a slight slope AWAY from the
wall of the water feature on the other ends.

I'm worried that the mortar will set on the first stone before I finish
the last one (there are about 18 uneven thickness stones to set, not
counting triangles to fill gaps).

I'll try it today after snapping a final picture and asking any last
minute questions.

Why would the mortar setting on the first stone
you lay in place effect any of the others, setting
it in place means laying it where it needs to be,
tapping it into the mortar bed so that it is level side
to side and sloped slightly front to back...

The first stone is usually the most important,
all the other ones will be leveled to it...

You would only be mixing enough mortar at a
time so that it is not sitting around while you
fit the stones in place -- that is why you should
have already cut and fit them together dry...

~~ Evan

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 05:49:49 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I have to wonder if it was laid with pitch away and settled

For the new 15-foot (or so) run of (now) tiled sandstone, I snapped a
line slightly sloped (bubble 1/4 over the line) and will try to lay the
stone to that line.
http://picturepush.com/public/7508924

It's the INSIDE line (the short 15-inch slope) that I'm not sure how to
keep on a slight slope.

I snapped a line on the form wood - but the wood isn't going to hold that
line (I'm pretty sure) like the concrete foundation would:
http://picturepush.com/public/7508952

How do you hold the line on the short edge of the block?

On Mon, 6 Feb 2012 20:11:09 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee
wrote:

How do you hold the line on the short edge of the block?

Mason's Line blocks. Simple / cheap wooden ones work great.

http://www.identity-links.com/img/ucart/images/pimage/56599/list.jpg

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 05:49:49 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I have to wonder if it was laid with pitch away and settled

For the new 15-foot (or so) run of (now) tiled sandstone, I snapped a
line slightly sloped (bubble 1/4 over the line) and will try to lay
the stone to that line.
http://picturepush.com/public/7508924

It's the INSIDE line (the short 15-inch slope) that I'm not sure how
to keep on a slight slope.

I snapped a line on the form wood - but the wood isn't going to hold
that line (I'm pretty sure) like the concrete foundation would:
http://picturepush.com/public/7508952

How do you hold the line on the short edge of the block?

An easy way is to slope the base. What *IS* the base, BTW?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:19:37 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
An easy way is to slope the base. What *IS* the base, BTW?

The problem with sloping the base is that the sandstones were of
different thicknesses.

Also, it would have been about 1.75 inches in depth (on top of whatever
depth the foundation already was).

In the end, I screwed up. I first laid about 1.75 inches of mortar but it
was too soft and the stones sank in it like quicksand. So I dug it up and
laid Sackrete concrete which was way way way too stony (I hate that stuff
now). So I dug the top part of that up - and put the mortar in.

It was a royal mess.

Here's a pic of the lousy edge due to the crappy Sakrete concrete mix:
http://picturepush.com/public/7517961

I'm thinking of smoothing out that lousy aggregate look with mortar &
then painting it. Is that how you'd smooth it out?

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 06:40:58 -0800, Sonny wrote:

*Our local city engineers claim "their standards" (sic), for public
projects, allow for 1' drop for every 12' run,

Yikes. I got this too late. It's all set in stone. But my intended slope
was nothing near that!

My chalk line, over about a dozen feet, was about 3/8" difference from
one end to the other.

Of course, that was just the dray chalk line - which was obliterated as
soon as I started with the wet concrete. So, that was the intent.

The reality shows the slope didn't work out the way I had wanted it to as
shown he
http://picturepush.com/public/7517980

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 08:23:11 -0800, Evan wrote:

You would only be mixing enough mortar at a time so that it is not
sitting around while you fit the stones in place -- that is why you
should have already cut and fit them together dry...

I screwed up.

At first I tried doing just a few stones. Then I started mixing more
mortar (two bags at once). Then I got frustrated and mixed all the mortar
& concrete (I had run out of mortar at one point so I used concrete).

At some point, I scraped it all up and started anew.

And, as you said, I 'should' have had all the stones cut. I left the
middle stone for last - but it took another ten or twenty minutes to cut
it to fit - so, all in all, I'd do it differently the second time around.

Plus, I didn't take into account that the shelf above was sloped to the
ground. See the results below:
http://picturepush.com/public/7517993

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:19:37 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
An easy way is to slope the base. What *IS* the base, BTW?

The problem with sloping the base is that the sandstones were of
different thicknesses.

Also, it would have been about 1.75 inches in depth (on top of
whatever depth the foundation already was).

1. Make base of sand mix mortar, slope it, let it cure then...

2. lay stones in Type S mortar - or maybe thinset - bed that is either...

a) thick enough so thinnest stone will be at desired level, tapping
thick stones down

- OR -

b) thin enough for thickest stone, adding mortar to thin stones
________________

In the end, I screwed up. I first laid about 1.75 inches of mortar
but it was too soft and the stones sank in it like quicksand. So I
dug it up and laid Sackrete concrete which was way way way too stony
(I hate that stuff now).

The stones are what makes concrete strong.
______________

Here's a pic of the lousy edge due to the crappy Sakrete concrete mix:
http://picturepush.com/public/7517961

Don't blame Sakrete, blame yourself for not acquainting yourself with what
products are available and where/when to use them.
_______________

I'm thinking of smoothing out that lousy aggregate look with mortar &
then painting it. Is that how you'd smooth it out?

I would...

1. Knock off the concrete flush with a trowel. If too hard, with a hammer
and chisel

2. Smooth area with thinset

3. Paint

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 06:40:58 -0800, Sonny wrote:

*Our local city engineers claim "their standards" (sic), for public
projects, allow for 1' drop for every 12' run,

Yikes. I got this too late. It's all set in stone. But my intended
slope was nothing near that!

My chalk line, over about a dozen feet, was about 3/8" difference from
one end to the other.

If you got that 3/8 from me, my 3/8 was for *one* cap 16-18" (inches) long.
And the 3/8 also compensated for an out of level wall that had settled.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 08:23:11 -0800, Evan wrote:

You would only be mixing enough mortar at a time so that it is not
sitting around while you fit the stones in place -- that is why you
should have already cut and fit them together dry...

I screwed up.

At first I tried doing just a few stones. Then I started mixing more
mortar (two bags at once). Then I got frustrated and mixed all the
mortar & concrete (I had run out of mortar at one point so I used
concrete).

At some point, I scraped it all up and started anew.

And, as you said, I 'should' have had all the stones cut. I left the
middle stone for last - but it took another ten or twenty minutes to
cut it to fit - so, all in all, I'd do it differently the second time
around.

Plus, I didn't take into account that the shelf above was sloped to
the ground. See the results below:
http://picturepush.com/public/7517993


Actually, for all your trials and tribulations, it looks pretty good.

Try to keep a nice, neat, straight line where the grout meets the existing
painted wall though, it will make it easier to paint the wall without
slopping paint onto the grout.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:06:17 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

Smooth area with thinset

I guess you recommended thinset since this is a VERY thin layer (just to
cover the holes in the concrete). I'll go to home depot to get the stuff.

Maybe even stucco mix might work to cover the mess left on the visible
edges when I used the Sakrete concrete mix under the stones.

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:09:53 -0500, dadiOH wrote:

my 3/8 was for *one* cap 16-18" (inches) long.

Yikes!

I made it 3/8" for the entire length (about 20 stones)!

Mea culpa. (add one more to the lessons learned!)

On Feb 8, 9:10*am, Chuck Banshee wrote:
On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:06:17 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
Smooth area with thinset

I guess you recommended thinset since this is a VERY thin layer (just to
cover the holes in the concrete). I'll go to home depot to get the stuff.

Maybe even stucco mix might work to cover the mess left on the visible
edges when I used the Sakrete concrete mix under the stones.

It's about time someone said this. You're in way over
your head. You're making one amateur mistake after
another. Why screw around, do a lot of work, only
to have it look like crap and fail in a year? Just hire
a good mason. There are some jobs where experience and
skill make a big difference, and this is one of them.