.... for electronic motoring purposes

"The jailed Amish bishop accused of spearheading a beard- and
hair-cutting campaign against religious foes today told a federal
judge that he is willing to install electricity in his home to
accommodate an electronic monitoring device if granted bond before
trial."

[...]

"While the Amish do not believe that “electricity is per se evil,”
according to Mullet’s motion, they stay off the public grid because
they believe “electricity allows for the introduction of modern
appliances that can cause family and community members not to reply
upon each other.”

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/amish-wants-electronic-monitoring-654912

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 14:26:14 -0800, Oren wrote:

... for electronic motoring purposes

"The jailed Amish bishop accused of spearheading a beard- and
hair-cutting campaign against religious foes today told a federal
judge that he is willing to install electricity in his home to
accommodate an electronic monitoring device if granted bond before
trial."

[...]

"While the Amish do not believe that “electricity is per se evil,”
according to Mullet’s motion, they stay off the public grid because
they believe “electricity allows for the introduction of modern
appliances that can cause family and community members not to reply
upon each other.”

It's pretty clear that they don't think cars are per se evil, because
they don't object, I'm told by someone who should know, to their 16 to
18 year old children** having cars. Sometimes they park them right on
their parents' property and walk to the farm house. They don't expect
their children to join the religion until they are 18 or 20 or 21, I
think it is, and that's when they agree not to have cars and
electrical things. ISTM if they thought cars were intrinsically evil,
they would tell their sons not to have them at all.

**Or at least the boys. I don't know if they draw a distinction.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/amish-wants-electronic-monitoring-654912

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 23:28:02 -0600, wrote:


The one thing I dont understand, is that they all have a horse and
buggy, but really only use them to go to church on Sunday. The rest of
the time they pay non-Amish to drive them to town to shop and stuff.

Is the church a lot closer than the town?

How long would it take to get to town by buggy?

OT When Mayor DiCarbo of my home town lost his drivers license for too
many traffic tickets, he rented an Amish buggy for a month or more,
until he got his license back. And he went to work by buggy. I
assume he drove it himself.

I've driven them several times. Sometimes just to trade them to shoe
one of my horses or something.

This is funny. I had my car stuck in my field. It was cold and
snowing, and my car was stuck in drifts in the long driveway to my
property. I was able to back it down the drive and into the field,
which did not have drifted snow, and thought I could drive out thru the
field. That did not work.... too slippery. I see the 15 or 16 year old
amish boy riding by on his horse and hollar to him to come help me. We
tied his horse to a tree and got my tractor and a chain. Hooked the
chain to the car and tractor and I told him to steer the car while I
pull with the tractor. NOPE!!!! He told me he cant drive a car.....
I explain to him that he's not "driving it". The tractor is pulling it.
All he has to do is steer it and follow the tractor. NOPE!!!! So we
traded places. I sat in the warm car and steered while he sat on the
open tractor in the cold freezing his tush off. That worked! He said
they are allowed to drive a tractor, but not a car......
I just shook my head and said "whatever"!!!

I hate to run your story, but is there any chance he was doing this
for the same reason a non-Amish boy would. There is some sort of
legal dispensation for a 15 y.o. to drive a tractor, but they are not
allowed to drive cars. Your valid distinction that he would just be
steering, or the idea that it was sort of an emergency and he would be
under the direction of an adult might have been beyond him at that
age.

Well, a non-Amish boy would likely have said, Sure, not caring about a
law if an adult was telling him to ignore it, but maybe a
goody-two-shoes non-Amish boy wouldn't.

On Jan 19, 10:26*pm, Oren wrote:
... for electronic motoring purposes

"The jailed Amish bishop accused of spearheading a beard- and
hair-cutting campaign against religious foes today told a federal
judge that he is willing to install electricity in his home to
accommodate an electronic monitoring device if granted bond before
trial."

[...]

"While the Amish do not believe that “electricity is per se evil,”
according to Mullet’s motion, they stay off the public grid because
they believe “electricity allows for the introduction of modern
appliances that can cause family and community members not to reply
upon each other.”

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/amish-wants-electronic-monitoring...

Clearly he is an unprincipled scoundrel.
If he had principles, he would remain in jail rather than submit.

On Jan 20, 2:19*am, micky wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 14:26:14 -0800, Oren wrote:
... for electronic motoring purposes

"The jailed Amish bishop accused of spearheading a beard- and
hair-cutting campaign against religious foes today told a federal
judge that he is willing to install electricity in his home to
accommodate an electronic monitoring device if granted bond before
trial."

[...]

"While the Amish do not believe that “electricity is per se evil,”
according to Mullet’s motion, they stay off the public grid because
they believe “electricity allows for the introduction of modern
appliances that can cause family and community members not to reply
upon each other.”

It's pretty clear that they don't think cars are per se evil, because
they don't object, I'm told by someone who should know, to their 16 to
18 year old children** having cars. *Sometimes they park them right on
their parents' property and walk to the farm house. *They don't expect
their children to join the religion until they are 18 or 20 or 21, *I
think it is, and that's when they agree not to have cars and
electrical things. ISTM if they thought cars were intrinsically evil,
they would tell their sons not to have them at all.

**Or at least the boys. I don't know if they draw a distinction.

There is no point trying to apply logic to any religion.

On Jan 19, 11:28*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 19:26:57 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

The one thing I dont understand, is that they all have a horse and
buggy, but really only use them to go to church on Sunday. *The rest of
the time they pay non-Amish to drive them to town to shop and stuff.
I've driven them several times. *Sometimes just to trade them to shoe
one of my horses or something.


Apparently some do ride to town in some places. My Sister-in-law used
to manage a branch office of a bank in a town near a large Amish
community. When they would get a relief teller for a day from the main
office, one of that teller's jobs would be to go out and shovel the
horse **** out of the drive through lane.

One of these relief tellers shoveled up the manure, put it in a bag
and put it in my the back seat of my Sister-in-law's car.

-C-

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 01:54:03 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/amish-wants-electronic-monitoring...

Clearly he is an unprincipled scoundrel.
If he had principles, he would remain in jail rather than submit.

This was not a British jail where he may be hugged to death. The man
wants out of the pokey.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 01:55:37 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

There is no point trying to apply logic to any religion.

How do we summarize that your Queen is Catholic? Is she not?

I did know a Zen Buddhist Liquitarian once. Claimed he only consumed
liquids and survived on fresh air, stood on his head every morning
before dawn naked and shaved his private nether regions.

He was non-violent, and had to consume his orange juice in the prison
chow hall.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:16:39 -0600, wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:53:30 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 20, 12:28*am, wrote:
He said
they are allowed to drive a tractor, but not a car......
I just shook my head and said "whatever"!!!

What Amish can and cannot do is entirely up to the bishop/elder of the
community. A progressive elder will allow ownership and operation of
modern vehicles and equipment. They still have to dress in the plain
clothes, live in a plain house, etc., but they can have tractors and
cars and electricity and cellphones and whatnot. Usually it is to
conduct business, but as with any religion, the line between personal
and business use can be blurred.

Yes, you are correct. There's another community around here about 30
miles away and there they all use their buggies for everything except
out of state (long distance) travel. They do not allow cellphones, etc.
This one near me is a little more modern. The bishop of this community
was recently "fired". I never knew they did that..... He moved on to
another community, and they are deciding who will take over here. Do
they have an election? I really dont know. I ask a lot of questions,
but there are soem things they wont discuss.

Other factoids.

Many will pay someone who owns a car to drive them places, but won't
own a car themselves.

They have had for a long time an ice-cream parlor in Gettysberg, Pa.
The place is overrunning with tourists in the summer, but they still
don't open on Sunday. I don't know where they live, how far it is to
go home, or if they go home every night or not.

There is a vegetable market in Scaggsville Md, just N or DC, just off
US-29, owned by Amish. (I"m not saying the own the building, but I
think they own the business.) It had not only electric lights, which
I didnt' notice at the time, but a fancy electonic cash register. I
wanted to ask the cashier how she was allowed to do that, but she
looked about 17 and I didn't think it was fair to her to expect her to
explain. Especially since I didn't really need to know the answer.
I think they are closed on Sunday too. I don't know where they live
either.

When I was little in Western Pa. and most people had their milk
delivered, the Amish would deliver milk, eggs, butter, etc by buggy,
but my mother bought from a dairy ini town. We had an insulated
metal milk box by the side door, that I think the dairy provided.

On Jan 20, 10:09*pm, micky wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:16:39 -0600, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:53:30 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 20, 12:28*am, wrote:
He said
they are allowed to drive a tractor, but not a car......
I just shook my head and said "whatever"!!!

What Amish can and cannot do is entirely up to the bishop/elder of the
community. A progressive elder will allow ownership and operation of
modern vehicles and equipment. They still have to dress in the plain
clothes, live in a plain house, etc., but they can have tractors and
cars and electricity and cellphones and whatnot. Usually it is to
conduct business, but as with any religion, the line between personal
and business use can be blurred.

Yes, you are correct. *There's another community around here about 30
miles away and there they all use their buggies for everything except
out of state (long distance) travel. *They do not allow cellphones, etc.
This one near me is a little more modern. *The bishop of this community
was recently "fired". *I never knew they did that..... He moved on to
another community, and they are deciding who will take over here. *Do
they have an election? *I really dont know. *I ask a lot of questions,
but there are soem things they wont discuss.

*Other factoids.

Many will pay someone who owns a car to drive them places, but won't
own a car themselves.

They have had for a long time an ice-cream parlor in Gettysberg, Pa.
The place is overrunning with tourists in the summer, but they still
don't open on Sunday. * I don't know where they live, how far it is to
go home, or if they go home every night or not.

There is a vegetable market in Scaggsville Md, just N or DC, just off
US-29, owned by Amish. (I"m not saying the own the building, but I
think they own the business.) * It had not only electric lights, which
I didnt' notice at the time, but a fancy electonic cash register. *I
wanted to ask the cashier how she was allowed to do that, but she
looked about 17 and I didn't think it was fair to her to expect her to
explain. * Especially since I didn't really need to know the answer.
I think they are closed on Sunday too. * I don't know where they live
either.

When I was little in Western Pa. and most people had their milk
delivered, the Amish would deliver milk, eggs, butter, etc by buggy,
but my mother bought from a dairy ini town. * We had an insulated
metal milk box by the side door, that I think the dairy provided.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

amish rules vary a lot.

theres amish at the rogers ohio friday flea market. some run stands.

one really gorgeous amish gal wears makeup a lot. i see amish with
cell phones.

a few years ago there was a tv show amish in the city. it was
fascinating. might be on u tube

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:09:46 -0500, micky wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:16:39 -0600, wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:53:30 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Jan 20, 12:28*am, wrote:
He said
they are allowed to drive a tractor, but not a car......
I just shook my head and said "whatever"!!!

What Amish can and cannot do is entirely up to the bishop/elder of the
community. A progressive elder will allow ownership and operation of
modern vehicles and equipment. They still have to dress in the plain
clothes, live in a plain house, etc., but they can have tractors and
cars and electricity and cellphones and whatnot. Usually it is to
conduct business, but as with any religion, the line between personal
and business use can be blurred.

Yes, you are correct. There's another community around here about 30
miles away and there they all use their buggies for everything except
out of state (long distance) travel. They do not allow cellphones, etc.
This one near me is a little more modern. The bishop of this community
was recently "fired". I never knew they did that..... He moved on to
another community, and they are deciding who will take over here. Do
they have an election? I really dont know. I ask a lot of questions,
but there are soem things they wont discuss.

Other factoids.

Many will pay someone who owns a car to drive them places, but won't
own a car themselves.

They have had for a long time an ice-cream parlor in Gettysberg, Pa.
The place is overrunning with tourists in the summer, but they still
don't open on Sunday. I don't know where they live, how far it is to
go home, or if they go home every night or not.

There is a vegetable market in Scaggsville Md, just N or DC, just off
US-29, owned by Amish. (I"m not saying the own the building, but I
think they own the business.) It had not only electric lights, which
I didnt' notice at the time, but a fancy electonic cash register. I
wanted to ask the cashier how she was allowed to do that, but she
looked about 17 and I didn't think it was fair to her to expect her to
explain. Especially since I didn't really need to know the answer.
I think they are closed on Sunday too. I don't know where they live
either.

The place we bought our furniture (NE Ohio) wasn't grid connected but they had
electric lights, calculators, and even took credit cards (chalked up ~$15K
with the 5% teaser cash-back - the reason I got the card). The attached
furniture factory had power woodworking tools and out back three Cummins
diesels powering their generators. Oh, and they have a web site, as well. ;-)

http://www.greenacresfurniture.com/


When I was little in Western Pa. and most people had their milk
delivered, the Amish would deliver milk, eggs, butter, etc by buggy,
but my mother bought from a dairy ini town. We had an insulated
metal milk box by the side door, that I think the dairy provided.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:14:30 -0500, "
wrote:


The place we bought our furniture (NE Ohio) wasn't grid connected but they had
electric lights, calculators, and even took credit cards (chalked up ~$15K
with the 5% teaser cash-back - the reason I got the card). The attached
furniture factory had power woodworking tools and out back three Cummins
diesels powering their generators. Oh, and they have a web site, as well. ;-)

http://www.greenacresfurniture.com/

Sort of related. I was thinking of going back to Guatamala, where I
spend 7 weeks 41 years ago, most of it after I broke my leg there.

Only 234 dollars round trip from Ft. Lauderdale. I think I would
have paid 80 or 100 one-way 41 years ago. (Based on the fact that it
was it was 150 from Panama to Miami to San Antonio.

Mostly I'm going to look at places I visited before.

I looked up the place where I broke my leg. It had been a
T-instersection of two 2-lane highways. Now it had a cloverleaf! I
thought, Well, I know I walked a bit, 100 feet, 200?. Mmaybe I was a
few hundred feet down the side road, iin front of the rich guy's big
house with the iron gate. I looked there, and it was full of streets
and small houses So I guess when I get there, everything that was
there will be gone.

I looked up the two hospitals I was in. The first one was Nuestra
Senora del Pilar, which at the time had at most 6 patient rooms and 8
beds. Maybe less. I had to take a taxi to another place that had an
X-ray machine.

Now they have 50 private rooms, 38 semi-private, a fancy building with
plants and a double vaulted ceiling in the lobby, and they have their
own webpage, www.sanatorioelpilar.com

The second hospital Herrera Llerandi was also listed in the list of
Guatamala City hospitals, and seems to be at the same location in what
had been a well-to-do residential n'hood. but only has an email
address. I had to go there because the doctor at the first one
wouldn't give me crutches or pain reliever and expected me to walk
when the pain was enormous. So I called the US Embassy and asked
what hospital I should go to. They gave me two places. The second
was a profit making hospital where I got my choice of meals the night
before, a newspaper delivered to my bed every day, and a complete
sponge bath by a pretty nurse every day (except the 10th day when she
wasn't pretty (different nurse) .

Both doctors were orthopedists, both had done residencies in the US,
but the second one said the first had set my leg wrong. I'm glad I
only waited 5 or 6 days from when I got out of the first hospital to
go to the second.

This was 1971. The first hospital was non-profit and charged 5
dollars a day, the second was profit making and charged 10. The hotel
I stayed at in the red-light district charged 1 dollar a day, and the
Hilton charged 30. The Hilton in Chicago charged about 30 at the same
time.

I couldn't find my hotel on google maps or google. I found the
Supreme Court of Guatamala, which was one block away, but Guatamala
city must have been the merger of several growning towns. The same
streets appear several times, and can only be distinguished by zone.
There are at least 12 zones. I have to figure out which zone I
lived in. (I have notes and sourvenirs but they would be hard to
find.) I'll rent a car and drive around until I find everything. I
can still speak Spanish pretty well, from what I learned on that 4
month trip, but I can't understand unless they speak slowly.