Small heads up on an ongoing HP promotion that ends end of this month
(or will it?).

http://h41112.www4.hp.com/promo/proliantmicroserver/index.html

It has a 1.3GHz dual core processor (AMD Athlon II Model NEO N36L (2
core, 1.30 GHz, 1MB L2, 15W), 1GB DDR3 memory, 250GB SATA, 4 SATA drive
bays, is mostly silent and with one drive installed power consumption
around 30 Watts.

An interesting forum thread with pics.
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1126552

Currently costs £140 VAT inclusive + delivered including receiving £100
cashback and purchasing direct from HP's own online shop. QuidCo applies
on HP shop purchases.

FWIW I think that's storming value for such an energy efficient beastie.
Won't be a gamer's machine or virtualisation champion though, and needs
an OS installing. Linux ideal.

Mine's growing to become a kickin' Debian squeezebox server :-)

--
Adrian C

Won't be a gamer's machine or virtualisation champion though, and needs
an OS installing. Linux ideal.

Virtualbox does actually run well on one of these - with 64 bit Ubuntu
as the host operating system.

These are very nicely made machines and are very quiet.

John

Huge wrote:
On 2011-04-03, Adrian C wrote:
Small heads up on an ongoing HP promotion that ends end of this month
(or will it?).

http://h41112.www4.hp.com/promo/proliantmicroserver/index.html

It has a 1.3GHz dual core processor (AMD Athlon II Model NEO N36L (2
core, 1.30 GHz, 1MB L2, 15W), 1GB DDR3 memory, 250GB SATA, 4 SATA drive
bays, is mostly silent and with one drive installed power consumption
around 30 Watts.

I'm umming and ahhing about building a NAS box and this looks ideal, except
I'm not really ready yet...

This doesn't come with a graphics card, right? So I have to buy and install
one? I don't need soopah performance - just marks on a screen so I can
install it ... Once I can get to it over a network, it'll likely never
get logged onto ever again.

(I'm a Sun geek by history - this PC stuff is all new to me)

get a mini itx board with an intel ATOM fanless processor.

board has onboard graffix and cruises on 5-10W, the rest is the drives
and the PSU fan.

Huge wrote:
On 2011-04-03, Adrian C wrote:
Small heads up on an ongoing HP promotion that ends end of this month
(or will it?).

http://h41112.www4.hp.com/promo/proliantmicroserver/index.html

It has a 1.3GHz dual core processor (AMD Athlon II Model NEO N36L (2
core, 1.30 GHz, 1MB L2, 15W), 1GB DDR3 memory, 250GB SATA, 4 SATA drive
bays, is mostly silent and with one drive installed power consumption
around 30 Watts.

I'm umming and ahhing about building a NAS box and this looks ideal, except
I'm not really ready yet...

This doesn't come with a graphics card, right? So I have to buy and install
one? I don't need soopah performance - just marks on a screen so I can
install it ... Once I can get to it over a network, it'll likely never
get logged onto ever again.

(I'm a Sun geek by history - this PC stuff is all new to me)

I have a Western Digital My Book World Edition II NAS, it has 2Tb of
storage and has a proper Linux OS with ssh access to it. In addition
there is a software repository for it and so you can add/update
software packages as required (see http://mybookworld.wikidot.com/first-steps-with-mbwe).

The power consumption is around 6 watts when idle, peaking at 12 watts
when busy, that's hard to beat with any sort of home build unless you
go for really tiny stuff and then it's difficult to house etc.

--
Chris Green

On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:19:15 +0000, Huge wrote:
This doesn't come with a graphics card, right? So I have to buy and
install one? I don't need soopah performance - just marks on a screen so
I can install it ... Once I can get to it over a network, it'll likely
never get logged onto ever again.

(I'm a Sun geek by history - this PC stuff is all new to me)

I'm not sure what the best approach is if you have to suffer Windows -
for any of the unix-a-like OSes I'd just use a text console and hook a
laptop up to it for the rare times it needed admin and access over the
network wasn't available, though.

cheers

Jules

Huge wrote:
On 2011-04-06, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:19:15 +0000, Huge wrote:
This doesn't come with a graphics card, right? So I have to buy and
install one? I don't need soopah performance - just marks on a screen so
I can install it ... Once I can get to it over a network, it'll likely
never get logged onto ever again.

(I'm a Sun geek by history - this PC stuff is all new to me)
I'm not sure what the best approach is if you have to suffer Windows -

Hell, no. This'll be getting FreeNAS or possibly OpenSolaris with ZFS
installed on it. No Windows in this house. (Well, there is, but not
when I have a choice.)

for any of the unix-a-like OSes I'd just use a text console and hook a
laptop up to it for the rare times it needed admin and access over the
network wasn't available, though.

That was kinda what I was thinking. Except a lot of boxes come without
serial ports these days, don't they?


You dont need to do this at all really.

unless the thing simply wont boot to multiuser, telnet gets you in to
any *nix system.


If it really is borked, hook up a keyboards and screen to the minimalist
onboard graphics.

In the last 10 years of doing this, it was only when the boot disk
started to get flaky, that I have had to resort to a boot screen.

And since that was severe hardware problems, an open case could have
just as easily popped a graphics card in.

Not that I am sure that a PC board will boot without SOME form of
graphics at all.. I've never tried. All the M/Bs I have used have had
crappy onboard intel chipsets..enough to boot the thing, anyway..

Huge wrote:
On 2011-04-06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2011-04-06, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:19:15 +0000, Huge wrote:
This doesn't come with a graphics card, right? So I have to buy and
install one? I don't need soopah performance - just marks on a screen so
I can install it ... Once I can get to it over a network, it'll likely
never get logged onto ever again.

(I'm a Sun geek by history - this PC stuff is all new to me)
I'm not sure what the best approach is if you have to suffer Windows -
Hell, no. This'll be getting FreeNAS or possibly OpenSolaris with ZFS
installed on it. No Windows in this house. (Well, there is, but not
when I have a choice.)

for any of the unix-a-like OSes I'd just use a text console and hook a
laptop up to it for the rare times it needed admin and access over the
network wasn't available, though.
That was kinda what I was thinking. Except a lot of boxes come without
serial ports these days, don't they?


You dont need to do this at all really.

unless the thing simply wont boot to multiuser, telnet gets you in to
any *nix system.

Not any *nix system I own, it doesn't.

why not? don't you have a firewall?

I am always amused by people who insist on ssh..which was designed
because someone got fed up with his packets being sniffed on a campus
network before switches were invented.

Or firewalls were even thought of.


It may have a place if you have WiFi, and unencrypted and
unauthenicated, which is similar to an ethernet hub in its general
promiscuity, but if you are that dumb, you deserve to be hacked.

You know here my servers are. Try telnetting into any of them.

On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 14:45:11 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2011-04-06, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:19:15 +0000, Huge wrote:
This doesn't come with a graphics card, right? So I have to buy and
install one? I don't need soopah performance - just marks on a screen
so I can install it ... Once I can get to it over a network, it'll
likely never get logged onto ever again.

(I'm a Sun geek by history - this PC stuff is all new to me)

I'm not sure what the best approach is if you have to suffer Windows -

Hell, no.

Good man :-)

for any of the unix-a-like OSes I'd just use a text console and hook a
laptop up to it for the rare times it needed admin and access over the
network wasn't available, though.

That was kinda what I was thinking. Except a lot of boxes come without
serial ports these days, don't they?

Indeed... but I suspect[1] that it at least has a free USB port or two,
so a USB-RS232 widget should work. I'd much rather have some Real Ports
on a machine, of course, but I seem to be in a minority these days :-)
(I don't think you can connect USB ports together between two PCs and
communicate between them, can you? In the modern world that'd be the
cleanest way of doing it, but I don't think USB works like that)

As you say, admin via network would work for just about all situations,
anyway.

For giggles I suppose in an emergency you could hook up a USB keyboard
for input and have console output directed to a USB printer

[1] I looked at the promo page via the link that the OP quoted, but I
gave up trying to find specs on the machine itself - I couldn't see a
link to them on the promo page, and I didn't see an easy way of matching
the quoted part code to an actual system. I was probably missing
something obvious :-)

cheers

Jules

Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Huge wrote:
On 2011-04-06, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:19:15 +0000, Huge wrote:
This doesn't come with a graphics card, right? So I have to buy and
install one? I don't need soopah performance - just marks on a
screen so
I can install it ... Once I can get to it over a network, it'll
likely
never get logged onto ever again.

(I'm a Sun geek by history - this PC stuff is all new to me)
I'm not sure what the best approach is if you have to suffer
Windows - Hell, no. This'll be getting FreeNAS or possibly
OpenSolaris with ZFS
installed on it. No Windows in this house. (Well, there is, but not
when I have a choice.)
for any of the unix-a-like OSes I'd just use a text console and
hook a laptop up to it for the rare times it needed admin and
access over the network wasn't available, though.
That was kinda what I was thinking. Except a lot of boxes come
without
serial ports these days, don't they?
You dont need to do this at all really.

unless the thing simply wont boot to multiuser, telnet gets you in to
any *nix system.

ssh, Shirley ?

Why? I run no open network where I can be packet sniffed. I have a
firewall that utterly precludes telnet coming into my network?

my sessions are entirely over a switch that cant be sniffed except by
the two endpoints and doesn't propagate to with encrypted wifi that is
only on when guesd require supervised access..

ssh is an expensive CPU overhead protocol solution to a problem that I
dont actually have...and in fact almost no one tehse days DOES have.

There is a mystique that it makes you 'more secure' In most peoples
networks, it does nothing of the sort. At the level it protects, you
already are secure. The vulnerabilities lie elsewhere and using ssh is
counter productive if it distracts from the real problems. Which are
more likely to be the machine you initiate the session from being
compromised. If you password is known, then ssh encrypting it can be
done by anyone.





Is there a chubb lock and an alarm on your toilet?

On the basis that if they have already bypassed/smashed/picked the chubb
lock on the front door, the one on the toilet door represents a problem?
and when the key to it is in the key cupboard just inside the broken
open back door?

Jules Richardson :
(I don't think you can connect USB ports together between two PCs and
communicate between them, can you? In the modern world that'd be the
cleanest way of doing it, but I don't think USB works like that)

Yes, you can. But it's a special lead and special software at each end.
Pretty cheap, mind.

Is there such a thing as a (mainstream) PC without an ethernet port
nowadays?

--
Mike Barnes

Huge wrote:
On 2011-04-06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2011-04-06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Not any *nix system I own, it doesn't.

why not?

Why not do it right? These days, nothing comes with telnet enabled anyway.

Pure prejudice and a seconds work to enable it.

If you can break into my network because I tell you there a telnetd on
the server, be my guest.

Its because I spent many years implementing secure networks (amongst
other things) that I cant be BOTHERED to use ssh, because I actually
know how to break into networks, and how to protect against it.

Te last time I had need of ssh was back in about 1993, when we ran a
hubbed ethernet network with coax cables. One of the technical support
guys spent a fortnight and presented me with every single name and
password. It had taken him two weeks and many gigabytes of disk to store
all the logs. And reasssemble the hand keyed packets

I told him I had them all anyway thanks, because they were issued by me.
And he could have saved himself the bother and simply stolen the key to
the filing cabinet.

And we needed to put in cat 5 and switches anyway...so his 'work' was a
bit wasted.

If smart asses spent a little less time analysing *theoreitcal* risks
and a bit more time worrying about practical and simple real risks, the
IT world would be a more secure place.


Example 1. Brand new firewall with VPN encryption installed to secure
corporate network. Support call 'I cant get to the office email from
hoe' 'you are not supposed to: see your line manager' Later on 'oh its
all right, I've installed a modem connected to my direct telephone line
and PCANYWHERE and now I can see the whole office at home just like I
was sitting at my desk, so close the ticket'. I gave him 30 seconds to
disconnect it before I DID call the managing director.

Eaxmple 2. Similar situation, but guy wants to work on spreadsheet at
home. "Oh its OK I have downloaded the *complete corporate database*
onto my laptop, so I don't need to get into work from home any more".



Anyone who leaves an employee with a writeable disk drive to removable
media, and doesn't make laptops and USB sticks a sackable offence,
doesn't care about their security. Only about the illusion of it. So
with ssh.





..

Mike Barnes wrote:
Jules Richardson :
(I don't think you can connect USB ports together between two PCs and
communicate between them, can you? In the modern world that'd be the
cleanest way of doing it, but I don't think USB works like that)

Yes, you can. But it's a special lead and special software at each end.
Pretty cheap, mind.

Is there such a thing as a (mainstream) PC without an ethernet port
nowadays?

Or a video card?

and who hasn't got a spare rubbish keyboard and a crappy monitor that
will do VGA somewhere..

Or cant afford to remove one from a desktop machine to sort a server
that wont boot?

Huge wrote:
On 2011-04-06, wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2011-04-03, Adrian C wrote:
Small heads up on an ongoing HP promotion that ends end of this month
(or will it?).

http://h41112.www4.hp.com/promo/proliantmicroserver/index.html

It has a 1.3GHz dual core processor (AMD Athlon II Model NEO N36L (2
core, 1.30 GHz, 1MB L2, 15W), 1GB DDR3 memory, 250GB SATA, 4 SATA drive
bays, is mostly silent and with one drive installed power consumption
around 30 Watts.

I'm umming and ahhing about building a NAS box and this looks ideal, except
I'm not really ready yet...

This doesn't come with a graphics card, right? So I have to buy and install
one? I don't need soopah performance - just marks on a screen so I can
install it ... Once I can get to it over a network, it'll likely never
get logged onto ever again.

(I'm a Sun geek by history - this PC stuff is all new to me)

I have a Western Digital

And there's the first problem. )

Why, they're no worse or better than any other manufacturer, they all
have bad patches. FWIW it has been running in my garage continuously
for 18 months or so now without a hiccough.

--
Chris Green

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2011-04-06, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:19:15 +0000, Huge wrote:
This doesn't come with a graphics card, right? So I have to buy and
install one? I don't need soopah performance - just marks on a screen so
I can install it ... Once I can get to it over a network, it'll likely
never get logged onto ever again.

(I'm a Sun geek by history - this PC stuff is all new to me)
I'm not sure what the best approach is if you have to suffer Windows -

Hell, no. This'll be getting FreeNAS or possibly OpenSolaris with ZFS
installed on it. No Windows in this house. (Well, there is, but not
when I have a choice.)

for any of the unix-a-like OSes I'd just use a text console and hook a
laptop up to it for the rare times it needed admin and access over the
network wasn't available, though.

That was kinda what I was thinking. Except a lot of boxes come without
serial ports these days, don't they?


You dont need to do this at all really.

unless the thing simply wont boot to multiuser, telnet gets you in to
any *nix system.

Rarely telnet enabled nowadays, ssh more like.

--
Chris Green

On 06/04/11 15:45, Huge wrote:
On 2011-04-06, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:19:15 +0000, Huge wrote:
This doesn't come with a graphics card, right? So I have to buy and
install one? I don't need soopah performance - just marks on a screen so
I can install it ... Once I can get to it over a network, it'll likely
never get logged onto ever again.

(I'm a Sun geek by history - this PC stuff is all new to me)

I'm not sure what the best approach is if you have to suffer Windows -

Hell, no. This'll be getting FreeNAS or possibly OpenSolaris with ZFS
installed on it. No Windows in this house. (Well, there is, but not
when I have a choice.)

for any of the unix-a-like OSes I'd just use a text console and hook a
laptop up to it for the rare times it needed admin and access over the
network wasn't available, though.

That was kinda what I was thinking. Except a lot of boxes come without
serial ports these days, don't they?


HP's website always has been impossible to navigate

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DocumentIndex.jsp?contentType=SupportManual&lang=e n&cc=uk&docIndexId=64903&taskId=101&prodTypeId=153 51&prodSeriesId=4248009

and
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/uk/en/sm/WF06a/15351-15351-4237916-4237917-4237917-4248009.html?jumpid=reg_R1002_UKEN

and finaly something useful:
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/13716_div/13716_div.html
Interfaces Graphics On board VGA
USB 2.0 Ports 7 total (2 rear, 4 front panel, 1 internal)
Network RJ-45 (Ethernet) 1 (10/100/1000 bits/s)
eSATA Gen 2 1 rear

so use any text VGA screen and a USB keyboard for the OS install,


--
djc

On 06/04/11 19:52, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

ssh is an expensive CPU overhead protocol solution to a problem that I
dont actually have...and in fact almost no one tehse days DOES have.

Actually probably habit more than anything, in my case. When at work I was
ssh-ing into our routers from time to time. But as these were carrier-class
Internet backbone routers with multiple 10Gbps interfaces you can
understand we didn't want just any old bozo being able to logon.

Apart from security what I like about ssh is being able to login with
pulickey authorisation. I log in and out of remote boxes (some as remote as
under my desk) all day long. Putting in one password once a day rather than
remember dozens is a big advantage.


--
djc

djc wrote:
On 06/04/11 19:52, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

ssh is an expensive CPU overhead protocol solution to a problem that I
dont actually have...and in fact almost no one tehse days DOES have.
Actually probably habit more than anything, in my case. When at work I was
ssh-ing into our routers from time to time. But as these were carrier-class
Internet backbone routers with multiple 10Gbps interfaces you can
understand we didn't want just any old bozo being able to logon.

Apart from security what I like about ssh is being able to login with
pulickey authorisation. I log in and out of remote boxes (some as remote as
under my desk) all day long. Putting in one password once a day rather than
remember dozens is a big advantage.



All mine have the same passwords :-)

Since in reality, only I can reach them.

The joys of a fixed IP address. And firewalls

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
djc wrote:
On 06/04/11 19:52, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
ssh is an expensive CPU overhead protocol solution to a problem that I
dont actually have...and in fact almost no one tehse days DOES have.
Actually probably habit more than anything, in my case. When at work I was
ssh-ing into our routers from time to time. But as these were carrier-class
Internet backbone routers with multiple 10Gbps interfaces you can
understand we didn't want just any old bozo being able to logon.
Apart from security what I like about ssh is being able to login with
pulickey authorisation. I log in and out of remote boxes (some as remote as
under my desk) all day long. Putting in one password once a day rather than
remember dozens is a big advantage.

All mine have the same passwords :-)

Since in reality, only I can reach them.

The joys of a fixed IP address. And firewalls

Oh the joys of an ignorant fool who thinks he knows something about
security. You are such stuff as hackers dreams are made of.

On Apr 6, 6:47*pm, djc wrote:

Interfaces * * * * Graphics * * * *On board VGA
USB 2.0 Ports * * *7 total (2 rear, 4 front panel, 1 internal)
Network RJ-45 (Ethernet) * 1 (10/100/1000 bits/s)
eSATA Gen 2 * * * *1 rear

so use any text VGA screen and a USB keyboard for the OS install,

The HP Microserver on-board graphics works fine at 1600x1200
resolution. It may not be up to gaming standards, but it works
perfectly OK and is quick enough for most things.

Also, hot plugging discs works fine for me despite the documentation
saying otherwise.

A Zalman ZM-VE200 is useful for installing stuff if you don't have an
optical drive installed. (This is a bootable USB exernal 2.5" disc
housing which presents a selection of ISOs as if they were real CDs or
DVDs on an optical drive. A very neat feature is that it displays the
SMART status (good, failing or broken) and drive temperature on its
LCD.)

John

In message , Huge
writes
On 2011-04-06, djc wrote:
and finaly something useful:
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/13716_div/13716_div.html
Interfaces Graphics On board VGA
USB 2.0 Ports 7 total (2 rear, 4 front panel, 1 internal)
Network RJ-45 (Ethernet) 1 (10/100/1000 bits/s)
eSATA Gen 2 1 rear

so use any text VGA screen and a USB keyboard for the OS install,

Kewl, thank you.

A discussion on uk.comp.homebuilt has a link to a series of photos of
it:
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtop...f=11&t=1126552
HTH


--
Nick (=----)

On Apr 3, 7:19 pm, Adrian C wrote:
Small heads up on an ongoing HP promotion that ends end of this month
(or will it?).

http://h41112.www4.hp.com/promo/proliantmicroserver/index.html

Thanks for the heads-up Adrian - bought myself one and with all the
cashback (HP+Quidco) it represents unbeatable value at £130 all-in.
I've been very impressed so far - it fits the bill in nearly every
respect and seems to be chugging along nicely at less than 20W.

Given the purpose and location for this server I want to keep the
noise at a minimum and found the supplied Seagate drive somewhat poor
in this regard so I've ordered a Samsung Ecogreen to replace it and
will likely relegate the Seagate to backup duties with automatic
spindown. I've read of a few people on the net also having replaced
the stock 120mm fan with one of the 'ultra-quiet' alternatives to
apparently good effect (rewiring the plug to suit the non-standard
mobo header) so I might give that a go depending on how things turn
out.

Oh, one other thing: the missus has asked if you can keep your good
ideas to yourself next time - we're meant to be saving for a
wedding! ;-)

Mathew

In message
,
Mathew Newton writes
On Apr 3, 7:19 pm, Adrian C wrote:
Small heads up on an ongoing HP promotion that ends end of this month
(or will it?).

http://h41112.www4.hp.com/promo/proliantmicroserver/index.html

Thanks for the heads-up Adrian - bought myself one and with all the
cashback (HP+Quidco) it represents unbeatable value at £130 all-in.

How much ?

http://www.serversplus.com/servers/t...ervers/633724-
421

I've been very impressed so far - it fits the bill in nearly every
respect and seems to be chugging along nicely at less than 20W.

Given the purpose and location for this server I want to keep the
noise at a minimum and found the supplied Seagate drive somewhat poor
in this regard so I've ordered a Samsung Ecogreen to replace it and
will likely relegate the Seagate to backup duties with automatic
spindown. I've read of a few people on the net also having replaced
the stock 120mm fan with one of the 'ultra-quiet' alternatives to
apparently good effect (rewiring the plug to suit the non-standard
mobo header) so I might give that a go depending on how things turn
out.

Oh, one other thing: the missus has asked if you can keep your good
ideas to yourself next time - we're meant to be saving for a
wedding! ;-)

Mathew

--
geoff

On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 21:34:31 +0100, geoff wrote:

Thanks for the heads-up Adrian - bought myself one and with all the
cashback (HP+Quidco) it represents unbeatable value at £130 all-in.

How much ?

http://www.serversplus.com/servers/tower_servers/
hp_tower_servers/633724-421

I'd imagine: price shown (~£200) plus VAT = £240. Less £100 cashback -
£140. Then I expect quidco gets another £10 off = £130.
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 21:34:31 +0100, geoff wrote:

Thanks for the heads-up Adrian - bought myself one and with all the
cashback (HP+Quidco) it represents unbeatable value at £130 all-in.

How much ?

http://www.serversplus.com/servers/tower_servers/
hp_tower_servers/633724-421

I'd imagine: price shown (~£200) plus VAT = £240. Less £100 cashback -
£140. Then I expect quidco gets another £10 off = £130.

Ah - I was forgetting the VAT as its not relevant to me


--
geoff