So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes, a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record TV
shows when he wants. He likes to record shows late at night and when he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. The VCR worked great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic

"Tomsic" wrote:

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record TV
shows when he wants. He likes to record shows late at night and when he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. The VCR worked great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tivo is the most expensive, but probably the simplest option. Tivo really wants
you to pay them a monthly fee, purportedly for the use of the online guide, but
it's really just a revenue stream. You can pay a "lifetime" fee up front in lieu
of the monthly fee, but that's for the life of the recorder, not the user, and
the breakeven point is out around 3 years.

There are DVRs annouced, although I'm not sure they are available. Definitely
not as many as there used to be when analog was used. One example:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20103986-1/new-channel-master-dvr-records-ota-streams-vudu-but-not-netflix/

I use a Dell Zino HD 410 media computer. It's about the size of a tissue box,
has a OTA TV card and hardrive for recording, and a DVD burner for saving shows.
Unfortunately Dell no longer makes this, although there's nothing to prevent you
from building something similar.

On 1/15/2012 3:38 PM, Tomsic wrote:
So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes, a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record TV
shows when he wants. He likes to record shows late at night and when he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. The VCR worked great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic



just buy a hard drive digital video recorder. (DVR)

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/15/2012 3:38 PM, Tomsic wrote:
So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes, a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record TV
shows when he wants. He likes to record shows late at night and when he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. The VCR worked great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic



http://www.amazon.com/Philips-DVDR35.../dp/B0013WM0BQ



--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:38:28 -0500, "Tomsic" wrote:

So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes, a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record TV
shows when he wants. He likes to record shows late at night and when he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. The VCR worked great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic

It's not logically perfect, but the only DVDR with HD on the market is
the Magnavox MDR-513H/F7 320GB DVR and DVD Recorder .

You definitely want a hard drive. Otherwise you have to keep putting
DVD's in the DVD slot, and making sure you have space on it for the
next recording. (IIRC, the one above will record to the harddrive if
the dvd fills up, but I would rather just record to the HD and copy it
to the DVD if I want to keep it. There is high-speed dubbing
(copying) available, and I used it once. I have to read the manual
again. . )

My HDD will hold 160 hours of tv, keeping your current viewing
position in every one of them. and the magnavox that is sold now has
an even bigger hd. maybe 300 hours (at the least fidelity, but it
seems fine to me. For greater fidelity for a really big tv screen, it
will hold less time) . The HD's are replaceable when they eventually
faili (I've recorcdd with mine about 30 hours a week for 3.5 years
with no trouble.) but the instructions are not in the owners manual.
There is a weblist devoted to this model at the most popular av
discussion website. I can find it for you if you want. There are
100's of posts and backgorund info, including a couple secret codes
that you can enter with the remote, to get info about the set.

They are 200 dollars at walmart, a store I dont' like much but at the
time I bought mine, which was then called a Philips 7576H iirc, it was
the only place that sold them. Certainly there box store Sams was the
only place that had them in stock to take home.

My ex-gf is very careful and thrify and she spent a lot of time online
looking for something else. There may be something at 500 or more
(check solidsignal.com which has the best list) but below that with a
HD theire is only this, or if there seems to be something, there's
something big wrong with it, like it doesn't have a digital tuner or
it has no tuner at all. No kidding. You have to read the
description very closely. Anyhow, even she was convinced that it was
the best she could do.

She ended up paying 150, but probably got a reconditioned one without
noticing. Amazon was where she bought it.

These are its flaws: Despite all its flaws, both she and I like the
thing. I hope this won't discourage you from buying this, but still
I want to warn you. (Really they are the flaws of the philips but
the magnavox is made by the same people, even the manual looks about
the same (though the remotes are very different and not
interchangeable.) It's conceivable that they've fixed one or two
flaws, but she has complained to me about most of the ones I didn't
like.

It has no program guide. I use zap2it.com or titantv.com, both of
which have over the air listings for every zipcode, though I had to
choose a zipcode in btween Balt. and DC to get both sets of
programs. .

It will display the description of the show while you are watching it,
but not while you are recording it, and more importantly, when you
record it it doesn't save the descripion. So after a few weeks it can
be really hard to remembe what I recorded. It doesn't display the
all the same things digital converter boxes do. It doesn't have the
time it starts or finishes, only text. .

It doesnt' keep time well. Neither does hers. Even the auto setting
is confused. I start many recordgins a minute before they start and
end a minute after they end to make up for the clock being wrong***
(though the clock alwarys runs slow (or fast) and if I could remember
which it is, I would only have to extend the time at one end. .
***(though this is not possible when one show is right after the
other on a different channel) I used to start 2 minutes before the
show started, but I got myself a little "atomic clock" and I set the
time to the second when I notice a show I record daily isn't starting
at the time it used. One could use wrist watch with a second
indicator, after he set that agianst the computer, after he made sure
the computer time was right. Setting the time manually can, if
you're not careful make a correction of 2 minutes when you are aiming
for one minute. Say the time on the dvdr is 1:02: and you don't know
how many seconds (but it's 58 seconds), And you want to set the clock
back one minute. You set the time to 1:01 and press enter and now
it's 1:01:00 instead of 1:02:58 seconds. You've set the clock back 2
minutes instead of one. So you have to be watching a clock or watch
with accurate seconds and push enter then, so that the time and the
DVDR both have seconds at 00 or 01.
For some reaosn, with authomatic on, it jumpted 15 seconds ahead
one night. I have had automatic on for most of the 4 years and
believe me, it doeesn't work. Maybe you'll be lucky and yours will.
I only have to reset the clock once a month or so.

When it gets to the end of timer or impromptu recording time, it turns
the machine off. I don't like that, although all I have to do is
turn it back on. (I have Powermd pyramids on each floor my house and
in my office and the bathroom so I can use the remote from all these
locations. Two of them gave me a lot of trouble with intermittent
extraneous IR that overloaded them and wouldn't allow the remote to
work, but I put switches in them and turn off the trnasmitters in the
bathroom and one bedroom when I leave the room.


More good things. It records and playsback DVDs and to some extent,
maybe music only, it will play from a flash drive. It has input jacks
on the front. It also has auxiliary inputs on the back and I
connected them to my computer output. If your distance is under 50
feet, you can just use wires, but for 100 feet, I needed baluns at
each end. (I found them cheap, 10 or 15 a pair) but I don't remember
where) . Then you can use network cable (lke Cat 5, what you use to
connect the router, etc.) for the long run and short cables from the
baluns to hte computer and the DVDR. Fidelity was not great, but I
didnt' investigate that. You might be better off with a tv ith
wireliess wifi, which will work like a monitor and you can browse to
your video from the tv itself. I can't do that because those tvs
have no output and I output my dvdr to 6 tv's scattered around the
house.


A good things I don't use. It has extensive editing capablilty,
removing part of it here, splicing there, but I have no interest in
that.


It will keep your position when watching the dvd if you don't turn the
dvdr off, or if you make sure it's in DVD mode when you turn it off.
Otherwise you can index forward to where you left off. If the DVD
doesn't have indexes , or if you didn't make them for an HDD
recording, it defaults to 10 minutes. I can't remember if this is
changeable.

It has skip forward and back. 3 settings for each. I skp 30 seconds
forward and 15 seconds back. I'd like to skip 10 seconds back but it
doesn't have that. It also has 3 forward speeds and 3 backwards
speeds, and 3 more of each when you are in pause. That is 3
slow-motion speeds in each direction.

There are more good things and a couple more less bad bad things. I
can't remmeber now.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:40:48 -0600, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 1/15/2012 3:38 PM, Tomsic wrote:
So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes, a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record TV
shows when he wants. He likes to record shows late at night and when he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. The VCR worked great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic



http://www.amazon.com/Philips-DVDR35.../dp/B0013WM0BQ

I misstated my model number in my long post. This is what I have.
They don't make them anymore so this must be used or refurbished.
Oh, they have two usd, at 270 and 280,counting shipping. The price
must be this high because of people like me, whose first one broke***
and they don't want to learn a new remote. (The buttons are in
different places) Because for 200 one can buy a brand new magnavox.
(Walmart has free ship to store, and actually last I looked only
charges 0.97 cents to ship most things to your home, etc. Or 150 for
a used one.

***I thought mine had broken because the remote didn't work, even when
I was one foot from the IR window. It turned out the Powermid was
transmitting for no good reason** and overloading the IR. There is a
red light on both the powermid transimitter and receiver, but in this
one case, the light in the receiver wasn't working either, so I didn't
think of that as the problem. Eventually I had to unplug the powermid
from the extension cable to the IR window, and then everything was
good again.


**On sci.electronics.repair, they helpfully told me about stray IR
from CFL's or maybe it was incandescent, but I sometimes woke in the
middle of the night to see the light blinking red, every half second,
on more t han off, when there were no lights on, it was pitch black
out. It also happened at other times when lights were on. Maybe
the trnasmitter was broken. I have another one I have to try.


BTW, both the Philips and the Magnavox also have an analog tuner (not
just a digital one), whcih might still work with some aspects of
cable, but I don't know because I don't have cable. And fewer and
fewer channels on cable are analog from what I read.

Tomsic wrote:
So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter
boxes, a telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. One of
the TVs is fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and
we tossed the VCR. It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can
record TV shows when he wants. He likes to record shows late at
night and when he's not around and then play them back when he has
time. The VCR worked great; but it doesn't make sense to use tape
any more. What black box should he get to connect to the TV to do
the recording that can be programmed to just record and play back --
no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly services although I might
convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

I have TV tuner cards in my computer to do that job. Most come with the
software, but I personally use BeyondTV, which I like for the commercial skip
feature.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 18:07:47 -0500, micky
wrote:


My ex-gf is very careful and thrify and she spent a lot of time online
looking for something else. There may be something at 500 or more
(check solidsignal.com which has the best list) but below that with a
HD theire is only this, or if there seems to be something, there's
something big wrong with it, like it doesn't have a digital tuner or
it has no tuner at all. No kidding. You have to read the
description very closely. Anyhow, even she was convinced that it was
the best she could do.

BTW, Walmart also sells this, whch it calls a DVR, for 400 dollars.
But I can't figure out what it is.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/AVerMedia-NEH1004HN/16419392

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:38:28 -0500, Tomsic wrote:
The VCR worked great; but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more.

Why not? I mean, if it didn't do what they needed, or supplies (i.e.
tapes) were hard to get hold of, then OK - but you say it worked great,
so I assume neither of those were a problem (otherwise it wouldn't be
great :-)

On 1/15/2012 7:01 PM, micky wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 18:07:47 -0500,
wrote:


BTW, Walmart also sells this, whch it calls a DVR, for 400 dollars.
But I can't figure out what it is.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/AVerMedia-NEH1004HN/16419392

That's a security camera recorder.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 20:55:17 -0500, Congoleum Breckenridge
wrote:

On 1/15/2012 7:01 PM, micky wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 18:07:47 -0500,
wrote:


BTW, Walmart also sells this, whch it calls a DVR, for 400 dollars.
But I can't figure out what it is.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/AVerMedia-NEH1004HN/16419392

That's a security camera recorder.

Ah, thanks.

I'm glad I didn't buy it to record Dancinig with the Stars.

tivo is a definete leader for DVR recordings.

it just works day in day out.


channel master had / has a DVR with hard drive that worked pretty well

On Jan 15, 5:11*pm, Robert Neville wrote:
"Tomsic" wrote:
The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record TV
shows when he wants. *He likes to record shows late at night and when he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. *The VCR worked great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. *What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tivo is the most expensive, but probably the simplest option. Tivo really wants
you to pay them a monthly fee, purportedly for the use of the online guide, but
it's really just a revenue stream. You can pay a "lifetime" fee up front in lieu
of the monthly fee, but that's for the life of the recorder, not the user, and
the breakeven point is out around 3 years.

I would say not only is it the most expensive, but it's the best.
I've had a Tivo since the original ones came out. Currently
have the newest HD one and it works great. The features it
has make it far superior to the crappy one that you can get
from Cablevision. I love the season pass option where I just
tell it to record show XYZ and it does it even if the show gets
shifted to a new time slot or has an episode that runs twice
as long, etc. I also have it loaded with wishlists based on
actors names, subject, etc. Anytime a show with one of
those actors is on or a show with a keyword I choose in the
show description is on it will record it. The user interface is
fanatastic.

But, as you say, it's not cheap. It's about $600 now with
a lifetime service subscription. As you say, you can break
even in about 3 or 4 yearrs, but that is if you're paying the
rental fee for a cable DVR recorder box. Here, I'm saving
$14 a month. Another good thing is that if the box ever
blows up they will swap it out for a flat repair fee. I don't
know what it is now, but when my Series 1 box got hit
by lightning, I got a replacement for just $100. Tivos are
sold on Ebay too.

For someone who just uses an antenna, it's harder to
justify the price though.




..

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:38:28 -0500, Tomsic wrote:
The VCR worked great; but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more.

Why not? I mean, if it didn't do what they needed, or supplies (i.e.
tapes) were hard to get hold of, then OK - but you say it worked great,
so I assume neither of those were a problem (otherwise it wouldn't be
great :-)


Yes, that's logical. Tapes will work and they might even be an economical
choice at the moment. But, the TV signal has to go through the converter
box for analog recording and the tapes have to be played back via the analog
TV. Once that TV dies, there's a useless VCR and a stack of tapes that
would have to be converted.

Yes, I know there are analog to digital converters. I have one of those,
but I'm less than happy with the picture quality.

I appreciate all of the good suggestions. Seems like the market still needs
some better choices though.

Thanks,

Tomsic

On 1/15/2012 6:45 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:38:28 -0500, Tomsic wrote:
The VCR worked great; but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more.

Why not? I mean, if it didn't do what they needed, or supplies (i.e.
tapes) were hard to get hold of, then OK - but you say it worked great,
so I assume neither of those were a problem (otherwise it wouldn't be
great :-)


i believe i read some time ago that the last vhs tape manufacturing
plant stopped producing new tapes.

On Jan 16, 11:49*am, chaniarts wrote:
On 1/15/2012 6:45 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:38:28 -0500, Tomsic wrote:
The VCR worked great; but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more.

Why not? I mean, if it didn't do what they needed, or supplies (i.e.
tapes) were hard to get hold of, then OK - but you say it worked great,
so I assume neither of those were a problem (otherwise it wouldn't be
great :-)

i believe i read some time ago that the last vhs tape manufacturing
plant stopped producing new tapes.

I find that very hard to believe.

On Jan 16, 11:34*am, "Tomsic" wrote:
"Jules Richardson" wrote in message

...

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:38:28 -0500, Tomsic wrote:
The VCR worked great; but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more.

Why not? I mean, if it didn't do what they needed, or supplies (i.e.
tapes) were hard to get hold of, then OK - but you say it worked great,
so I assume neither of those were a problem (otherwise it wouldn't be
great :-)

Yes, that's logical. *Tapes will work and they might even be an economical
choice at the moment. *But, the TV signal has to go through the converter
box for analog recording and the tapes have to be played back via the analog
TV.

And with a VCR you're not going to record anything in
HD. SVHS at best.


Once that TV dies, *there's a useless VCR and a stack of tapes that
would have to be converted.

Yes, I know there are analog to digital converters. *I have one of those,
but I'm less than happy with the picture quality.

I appreciate all of the good suggestions. *Seems like the market still needs
some better choices though.

Thanks,

Tomsic

On Jan 16, 2:49*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 05:35:41 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
by lightning, I got a replacement for just $100. *Tivos are
sold on Ebay too.

But if you buy one on ebay, can you use it without a subscription?

They are being sold on Ebay with or without a lifetime
subscription. With they are around $550 - 600 last time
I looked.


That's where I get confused. *Why pay a subscription if you're not even
using it? *How do they know you're using it? *Or do you just pay a flat
fee whether you use it or not? *Then again, why not just buy a dvr?

Because a DVR is dumb and does not have a constantly'updated
schedule. Tivo does. And the Tivo uses the schedule for all the
neat features, like recording all the De Niro movies, or all the
programs with "snowboard" in the description.


Sure if it blows up, you have to fix or replace it yourself, but isn't
that true of all electronics such as the tv, computer, phone, etc.

Yes, but what other electronics can you swap it out
for a low reasonable fee. Was $100 to swap out my
blown Tivo that cost $350

On 1/16/2012 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Jan 16, 11:49 am, wrote:
On 1/15/2012 6:45 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:38:28 -0500, Tomsic wrote:
The VCR worked great; but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more.

Why not? I mean, if it didn't do what they needed, or supplies (i.e.
tapes) were hard to get hold of, then OK - but you say it worked great,
so I assume neither of those were a problem (otherwise it wouldn't be
great :-)

i believe i read some time ago that the last vhs tape manufacturing
plant stopped producing new tapes.

I find that very hard to believe.

you should try to believe 2 impossible things before breakfast. to wit:

Los Angeles Times Articles

VHS era is winding down
The last big supplier of the tapes is ditching the format, ending the
long fade-out of a product that ushered in the home theater.

December 22, 2008 Geoff Boucher

Pop culture is finally hitting the eject button on the VHS tape, the
once ubiquitous home video format that will finish this month as a
creaky ghost of Christmas past.

After three decades of steady if unspectacular service, the spinning
wheels of the home entertainment stalwart are slowing to a halt at
retail outlets. On a crisp Friday morning in October, the final
truckload of VHS tapes rolled out of a Palm Harbor, Fla., warehouse run
by Ryan J. Kugler, the last major supplier of the tapes.

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 13:58:38 -0700, chaniarts
wrote:

On 1/16/2012 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Jan 16, 11:49 am, wrote:
On 1/15/2012 6:45 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:38:28 -0500, Tomsic wrote:
The VCR worked great; but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more.

Why not? I mean, if it didn't do what they needed, or supplies (i.e.
tapes) were hard to get hold of, then OK - but you say it worked great,
so I assume neither of those were a problem (otherwise it wouldn't be
great :-)

i believe i read some time ago that the last vhs tape manufacturing
plant stopped producing new tapes.

I find that very hard to believe.

you should try to believe 2 impossible things before breakfast. to wit:

Los Angeles Times Articles

VHS era is winding down
The last big supplier of the tapes is ditching the format, ending the
long fade-out of a product that ushered in the home theater.

December 22, 2008 Geoff Boucher

Pop culture is finally hitting the eject button on the VHS tape, the
once ubiquitous home video format that will finish this month as a
creaky ghost of Christmas past.

After three decades of steady if unspectacular service, the spinning
wheels of the home entertainment stalwart are slowing to a halt at
retail outlets. On a crisp Friday morning in October, the final
truckload of VHS tapes rolled out of a Palm Harbor, Fla., warehouse run
by Ryan J. Kugler, the last major supplier of the tapes.

Very interesting. Good to know.

I actually recorded one of the Rep. debates on my VCR (with
dig-to-analog converter box) just before New Hampshire. The DVDR was
being used to record a show I watch every week.

And I still have about 8 once-blank tapes, and since I almost never
save anything after I watch it, and since one tape lasted me a year or
two even when I used it every day, they should last a long time.

I also have a box of 20 or 30 tapes that someone else recorded on.
Eventually I'll watch each of them once, or less if it's boring, and
then I'll have more "blank tapes".

The story that they could only be used 4 or 5 times was so so false.
I recorded and rerecorded mine 40 or 50 times or more before they
failed. Until failure, the picture quality seemed unchanged to me.

I should be able to last the rest of my life with what I have.

"Robert Neville" wrote in message
...
"Tomsic" wrote:

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record TV
shows when he wants. He likes to record shows late at night and when he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. The VCR worked
great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to
just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly
services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tivo is the most expensive, but probably the simplest option. Tivo really
wants
you to pay them a monthly fee, purportedly for the use of the online
guide, but
it's really just a revenue stream. You can pay a "lifetime" fee up front
in lieu
of the monthly fee, but that's for the life of the recorder, not the user,
and
the breakeven point is out around 3 years.

There are DVRs annouced, although I'm not sure they are available.
Definitely
not as many as there used to be when analog was used. One example:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20103986-1/new-channel-master-dvr-records-ota-streams-vudu-but-not-netflix/

I use a Dell Zino HD 410 media computer. It's about the size of a tissue
box,
has a OTA TV card and hardrive for recording, and a DVD burner for saving
shows.
Unfortunately Dell no longer makes this, although there's nothing to
prevent you
from building something similar.

The Linux equivalent is called MythTV
Google that for how to build one from an old PC

wrote:

But if you buy one on ebay, can you use it without a subscription?
That's where I get confused. Why pay a subscription if you're not even
using it? How do they know you're using it? Or do you just pay a flat
fee whether you use it or not? Then again, why not just buy a dvr?
Sure if it blows up, you have to fix or replace it yourself, but isn't
that true of all electronics such as the tv, computer, phone, etc.

The subscription used to allow access to the guide data. No subscription, no
guide data, no recording by program name. You could still use it as a dumb
recorder. Whether they block that now as well I don't know.

The fee is not a lease fee and doesn't allow for free repairs after the warranty
period.

On Jan 16, 3:58*pm, chaniarts wrote:
On 1/16/2012 11:19 AM, wrote:

On Jan 16, 11:49 am, *wrote:
On 1/15/2012 6:45 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:38:28 -0500, Tomsic wrote:
The VCR worked great; but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more..

Why not? I mean, if it didn't do what they needed, or supplies (i.e.
tapes) were hard to get hold of, then OK - but you say it worked great,
so I assume neither of those were a problem (otherwise it wouldn't be
great :-)

i believe i read some time ago that the last vhs tape manufacturing
plant stopped producing new tapes.

I find that very hard to believe.

you should try to believe 2 impossible things before breakfast. to wit:

Los Angeles Times Articles

VHS era is winding down
The last big supplier of the tapes is ditching the format, ending the
long fade-out of a product that ushered in the home theater.

December 22, 2008 Geoff Boucher

Pop culture is finally hitting the eject button on the VHS tape, the
once ubiquitous home video format that will finish this month as a
creaky ghost of Christmas past.

After three decades of steady if unspectacular service, the spinning
wheels of the home entertainment stalwart are slowing to a halt at
retail outlets. On a crisp Friday morning in October, the final
truckload of VHS tapes rolled out of a Palm Harbor, Fla., warehouse run
by Ryan J. Kugler, the last major supplier of the tapes.

i don't read the LA Times and I don't know what they are talking about
and apparently neither do they. I just typed "buy vhs tapes" into
google and apparently TDK
and Maxell are available to buy. Also who the hell is Ryan
Kugler?

" wrote:

i don't read the LA Times and I don't know what they are talking about
and apparently neither do they. I just typed "buy vhs tapes" into
google and apparently TDK
and Maxell are available to buy.

What was posted is that VHS tapes are no longer being manufactured. That doesn't
mean mountains of them don't exist in warehouses, Goodwill and dollar stores
around the world.

On Jan 16, 10:35*pm, Robert Neville wrote:
" wrote:
i don't read the LA Times and I don't know what they are talking about
and apparently neither do they. *I just typed "buy vhs tapes" into
google and apparently TDK
and Maxell are available to buy.

What was posted is that VHS tapes are no longer being manufactured. That doesn't
mean mountains of them don't exist in warehouses, Goodwill and dollar stores
around the world.

I suggest you and chaniarts go read the actual LA times
article again. While it starts off saying the last truckload
of VHS tapes is leaving the warehouse, by the end of the
article it's clear the article is actually talking about
PRE-RECORDED VHS TAPES, ie those with movies
on them. Which explains who Kugler is. He's a guy
who bought up the old movies and is selling them off
out of his warehouse.

That poorly written, misleading article was written over
3 years ago and major retailers are still obviously stocking
blank VHS tapes from many different manufacturers,
Maxell, TDK, Sony, etc.

On Jan 15, 5:11*pm, Robert Neville wrote:
"Tomsic" wrote:
The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record TV
shows when he wants. *He likes to record shows late at night and when he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. *The VCR worked great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. *What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tivo is the most expensive, but probably the simplest option. Tivo really wants
you to pay them a monthly fee, purportedly for the use of the online guide, but
it's really just a revenue stream. You can pay a "lifetime" fee up front in lieu
of the monthly fee, but that's for the life of the recorder, not the user, and
the breakeven point is out around 3 years.

There are DVRs annouced, although I'm not sure they are available. Definitely
not as many as there used to be when analog was used. One example:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20103986-1/new-channel-master-dvr...

I use a Dell Zino HD 410 media computer. It's about the size of a tissue box,
has a OTA TV card and hardrive for recording, and a DVD burner for saving shows.
Unfortunately Dell no longer makes this, although there's nothing to prevent you
from building something similar.

Another option would be to look into a Linux-based DIY solution if you
are handy, MythTV comes to mind

http://www.mythtv.org/

nate

On Jan 15, 4:40*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 1/15/2012 3:38 PM, Tomsic wrote:









So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes, a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. *One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record TV
shows when he wants. *He likes to record shows late at night and when he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. *The VCR worked great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. *What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-DVDR35...Built/dp/B0013...

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Used? WTF

On 1/17/2012 8:27 AM, N8N wrote:
On Jan 15, 5:11 pm, Robert wrote:
wrote:
The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record TV
shows when he wants. He likes to record shows late at night and when he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. The VCR worked great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tivo is the most expensive, but probably the simplest option. Tivo really wants
you to pay them a monthly fee, purportedly for the use of the online guide, but
it's really just a revenue stream. You can pay a "lifetime" fee up front in lieu
of the monthly fee, but that's for the life of the recorder, not the user, and
the breakeven point is out around 3 years.

There are DVRs annouced, although I'm not sure they are available. Definitely
not as many as there used to be when analog was used. One example:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20103986-1/new-channel-master-dvr...

I use a Dell Zino HD 410 media computer. It's about the size of a tissue box,
has a OTA TV card and hardrive for recording, and a DVD burner for saving shows.
Unfortunately Dell no longer makes this, although there's nothing to prevent you
from building something similar.

Another option would be to look into a Linux-based DIY solution if you
are handy, MythTV comes to mind

http://www.mythtv.org/

nate

I like that choice and have built a number of them. I think the OP may
have put too restrictive requirements on the replacement. They might
have been totally happy with a VCR because it is what it is. But DVRs
are so much more powerful.

On Jan 15, 5:11*pm, Robert Neville wrote:
"Tomsic" wrote:
The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record TV
shows when he wants. *He likes to record shows late at night and when he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. *The VCR worked great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. *What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tivo is the most expensive, but probably the simplest option. Tivo really wants
you to pay them a monthly fee, purportedly for the use of the online guide, but
it's really just a revenue stream. You can pay a "lifetime" fee up front in lieu
of the monthly fee, but that's for the life of the recorder, not the user, and
the breakeven point is out around 3 years.

There are DVRs annouced, although I'm not sure they are available. Definitely
not as many as there used to be when analog was used. One example:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20103986-1/new-channel-master-dvr...

I use a Dell Zino HD 410 media computer. It's about the size of a tissue box,
has a OTA TV card and hardrive for recording, and a DVD burner for saving shows.
Unfortunately Dell no longer makes this, although there's nothing to prevent you
from building something similar.
________________________
Wait until after 2012: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news..._stormwarning/

-CC

On 1/15/2012 1:38 PM, Tomsic wrote:
So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes, a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record TV
shows when he wants. He likes to record shows late at night and when he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. The VCR worked great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic


Assuming you're in the USA??
There are several issues to consider.
The most of important is, "What do you mean by the plural 'shows'?"
If you want to record multiple shows AT THE SAME TIME, you've got
a problem.

Can you view ALL the channels you want to record with one antenna
direction? If you've got multipath and have to turn the antenna
to get a channel, that makes multiple channel recordings, or unattended
recording of a single channel problematic.

Whatever you use has to have an internal or external ATSC tuner.
You can't buy a new VCR with an ATSC, at least not at a rational price.
Thank your legislators for preventing vendors including tuners that
didn't do ATSC. So the vendors left 'em out.

That makes programming a nightmare. You have to program the VCR AND the
tuner simultaneously. I tried it for a while, but gave up trying to get
it right.

I tried a couple of DVD recorders without success. If there was ANY glitch
in the recording process, like a bad spot on the DVD or a pixelation
due to a plane flying over or ANYTHING not perfect, the recorder
gave up and aborted. I ended up with the first few minutes of a show
before it ALWAYS found some reason to abort. There was no recovery process.

I ended up with two VCRs and four digital converter boxes.
I could set two channels on each recorder and program the VCR to record
either channel. That worked fine, but since I'm home while the recordings
are happening, I ditched two of the converter boxes and switch it
manually.

I also have a TV tuner card in my PC. ATI HDTV wonder. It works
mostly, but if I do much else on the computer, the recording skips.
Also skips a lot on some channels.

I've tried a couple of other cards without success. Either no drivers
or too resource hungry to run on a 2.8GHz computer. There's a lot of
difference in the ability of a given tuner to get a reliable picture
in a multipath area.

Some of the older cable boxes will let you tune OTA hdtv without
service. So, I have a Hughes HTL-HD plumbed into the monitor.

So, I can record one HD channel on the computer if it's on a good
reception channel,
Two lowD channels on the VCRs and watch one HD channel on the computer
monitor.

The more popular shows can be viewed on network websites if you have
the bandwidth.

Most people would find this setup unacceptable.

People who report being happy have multiple dual-tuner cards
(with hardware assist) in a
dedicated multi-core PC.
But it ain't cheap.

It won't be too long before you can stream anything you want on demand.
But it will never be at a cost I'm willing to pay.
YMMV.

"mike" wrote in message
...
On 1/15/2012 1:38 PM, Tomsic wrote:
So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes,
a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the
VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record
TV
shows when he wants. He likes to record shows late at night and when
he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. The VCR worked
great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to
just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly
services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic


Assuming you're in the USA??
There are several issues to consider.
The most of important is, "What do you mean by the plural 'shows'?"
If you want to record multiple shows AT THE SAME TIME, you've got
a problem.

Can you view ALL the channels you want to record with one antenna
direction? If you've got multipath and have to turn the antenna
to get a channel, that makes multiple channel recordings, or unattended
recording of a single channel problematic.

Whatever you use has to have an internal or external ATSC tuner.
You can't buy a new VCR with an ATSC, at least not at a rational price.
Thank your legislators for preventing vendors including tuners that
didn't do ATSC. So the vendors left 'em out.

That makes programming a nightmare. You have to program the VCR AND the
tuner simultaneously. I tried it for a while, but gave up trying to get
it right.

I tried a couple of DVD recorders without success. If there was ANY
glitch
in the recording process, like a bad spot on the DVD or a pixelation
due to a plane flying over or ANYTHING not perfect, the recorder
gave up and aborted. I ended up with the first few minutes of a show
before it ALWAYS found some reason to abort. There was no recovery
process.

I ended up with two VCRs and four digital converter boxes.
I could set two channels on each recorder and program the VCR to record
either channel. That worked fine, but since I'm home while the recordings
are happening, I ditched two of the converter boxes and switch it
manually.

I also have a TV tuner card in my PC. ATI HDTV wonder. It works mostly,
but if I do much else on the computer, the recording skips.
Also skips a lot on some channels.

I've tried a couple of other cards without success. Either no drivers
or too resource hungry to run on a 2.8GHz computer. There's a lot of
difference in the ability of a given tuner to get a reliable picture
in a multipath area.

Some of the older cable boxes will let you tune OTA hdtv without service.
So, I have a Hughes HTL-HD plumbed into the monitor.

So, I can record one HD channel on the computer if it's on a good
reception channel,
Two lowD channels on the VCRs and watch one HD channel on the computer
monitor.

The more popular shows can be viewed on network websites if you have
the bandwidth.

Most people would find this setup unacceptable.

People who report being happy have multiple dual-tuner cards
(with hardware assist) in a
dedicated multi-core PC.
But it ain't cheap.

It won't be too long before you can stream anything you want on demand.
But it will never be at a cost I'm willing to pay.
YMMV.

Yes, it's the cost thing that bugs both my friend and me. Your information
is excellent though. My friend knows as much about computers as his cat;
but he can carefully follow a set of instructions. He does use a roof
antenna to feed his sets (the analog set is fed through a converter box) and
doesn't need to reposition the antenna to get all the stations in the area.
He's perfectly willing to record with one set and watch the other if two
shows are on at the same time. But, he's more likely to do time shifting
and want to set a timer to record a show while he's at work or away for
viewing later.

So far from the comments here, I see two choices given his interests and
capabilities: (1) Get a TIVO or cable TV recorder system and pay the big
bucks forever (2) Cobble together his new ditital TV, and a DVD or DVR
player along with a computer and a honking-big hard drive for storage. Use
the computer for control and moving files. I don't see yet how to set up a
recording schedule, but maybe there's some software around. It sounds like
streaming from the internet could be done with the same rig.

Tomsic

"Nono" wrote:

I don't see yet how to set up a
recording schedule, but maybe there's some software around.

If you use a Windows platform, most non-basic versions of Windows 7 come with
Media Center, which both downloads a program guide for free and permits single
episode or series recording of any OTA program. It will also transcode a
recorded program such that it can be burned onto a regular DVD. Takes a while,
but works fine.

On Jan 17, 8:27*pm, "Nono" wrote:
"mike" wrote in message

...





On 1/15/2012 1:38 PM, Tomsic wrote:
So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes,
a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. *One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the
VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record
TV
shows when he wants. *He likes to record shows late at night and when
he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. *The VCR worked
great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. *What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to
just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly
services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic

Assuming you're in the USA??
There are several issues to consider.
The most of important is, "What do you mean by the plural 'shows'?"
If you want to record multiple shows AT THE SAME TIME, you've got
a problem.

Can you view ALL the channels you want to record with one antenna
direction? *If you've got multipath and have to turn the antenna
to get a channel, that makes multiple channel recordings, or unattended
recording of a single channel problematic.

Whatever you use has to have an internal or external ATSC tuner.
You can't buy a new VCR with an ATSC, at least not at a rational price.
Thank your legislators for preventing vendors including tuners that
didn't do ATSC. *So the vendors left 'em out.

That makes programming a nightmare. *You have to program the VCR AND the
tuner simultaneously. *I tried it for a while, but gave up trying to get
it right.

I tried a couple of DVD recorders without success. *If there was ANY
glitch
in the recording process, like a bad spot on the DVD or a pixelation
due to a plane flying over or ANYTHING not perfect, the recorder
gave up and aborted. *I ended up with the first few minutes of a show
before it ALWAYS found some reason to abort. *There was no recovery
process.

I ended up with two VCRs and four digital converter boxes.
I could set two channels on each recorder and program the VCR to record
either channel. *That worked fine, but since I'm home while the recordings
are happening, I ditched two of the converter boxes and switch it
manually.

I also have a TV tuner card in my PC. *ATI HDTV wonder. *It works mostly,
but if I do much else on the computer, the recording skips.
Also skips a lot on some channels.

I've tried a couple of other cards without success. *Either no drivers
or too resource hungry to run on a 2.8GHz computer. *There's a lot of
difference in the ability of a given tuner to get a reliable picture
in a multipath area.

Some of the older cable boxes will let you tune OTA hdtv without service.
So, I have a Hughes HTL-HD plumbed into the monitor.

So, I can record one HD channel on the computer if it's on a good
reception channel,
Two lowD channels on the VCRs and watch one HD channel on the computer
monitor.

The more popular shows can be viewed on network websites if you have
the bandwidth.

Most people would find this setup unacceptable.

People who report being happy have multiple dual-tuner cards
(with hardware assist) in a
dedicated multi-core PC.
But it ain't cheap.

It won't be too long before you can stream anything you want on demand.
But it will never be at a cost I'm willing to pay.
YMMV.

Yes, it's the cost thing that bugs both my friend and me. *Your information
is excellent though. *My friend knows as much about computers as his cat;
but he can carefully follow a set of instructions. * He does use a roof
antenna to feed his sets (the analog set is fed through a converter box) and
doesn't need to reposition the antenna to get all the stations in the area.
He's perfectly willing to record with one set and watch the other if two
shows are on at the same time. *But, he's more likely to do time shifting
and want to set a timer to record a show while he's at work or away for
viewing later.

So far from the comments here, I see two choices given his interests and
capabilities: (1) Get a TIVO or cable TV recorder system and pay the big
bucks forever


With Tivo you can buy a lifetime subscription for
about $300. And the older units definitely worked
without a subscription, but it's then just a dumb
time/channel machine. I've heard the new Tivos
won't work without the subscription, but not sure
if that's true.

The problem for you is that the cost of a new Tivo
with lifetimes is around $550- $600. That can be
recovered in 3 - 4 years if you're replacing a cable
box DVR. I'm saving $14 a month. In your case,
with just antenna, it's a different proposition. You
can check Ebay for used Tivos as well.

On Jan 18, 8:10*am, "
wrote:
On Jan 17, 8:27*pm, "Nono" wrote:





"mike" wrote in message

...

On 1/15/2012 1:38 PM, Tomsic wrote:
So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes,
a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. *One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the
VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record
TV
shows when he wants. *He likes to record shows late at night and when
he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. *The VCR worked
great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. *What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to
just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly
services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic

Assuming you're in the USA??
There are several issues to consider.
The most of important is, "What do you mean by the plural 'shows'?"
If you want to record multiple shows AT THE SAME TIME, you've got
a problem.

Can you view ALL the channels you want to record with one antenna
direction? *If you've got multipath and have to turn the antenna
to get a channel, that makes multiple channel recordings, or unattended
recording of a single channel problematic.

Whatever you use has to have an internal or external ATSC tuner.
You can't buy a new VCR with an ATSC, at least not at a rational price.
Thank your legislators for preventing vendors including tuners that
didn't do ATSC. *So the vendors left 'em out.

That makes programming a nightmare. *You have to program the VCR AND the
tuner simultaneously. *I tried it for a while, but gave up trying to get
it right.

I tried a couple of DVD recorders without success. *If there was ANY
glitch
in the recording process, like a bad spot on the DVD or a pixelation
due to a plane flying over or ANYTHING not perfect, the recorder
gave up and aborted. *I ended up with the first few minutes of a show
before it ALWAYS found some reason to abort. *There was no recovery
process.

I ended up with two VCRs and four digital converter boxes.
I could set two channels on each recorder and program the VCR to record
either channel. *That worked fine, but since I'm home while the recordings
are happening, I ditched two of the converter boxes and switch it
manually.

I also have a TV tuner card in my PC. *ATI HDTV wonder. *It works mostly,
but if I do much else on the computer, the recording skips.
Also skips a lot on some channels.

I've tried a couple of other cards without success. *Either no drivers
or too resource hungry to run on a 2.8GHz computer. *There's a lot of
difference in the ability of a given tuner to get a reliable picture
in a multipath area.

Some of the older cable boxes will let you tune OTA hdtv without service.
So, I have a Hughes HTL-HD plumbed into the monitor.

So, I can record one HD channel on the computer if it's on a good
reception channel,
Two lowD channels on the VCRs and watch one HD channel on the computer
monitor.

The more popular shows can be viewed on network websites if you have
the bandwidth.

Most people would find this setup unacceptable.

People who report being happy have multiple dual-tuner cards
(with hardware assist) in a
dedicated multi-core PC.
But it ain't cheap.

It won't be too long before you can stream anything you want on demand.
But it will never be at a cost I'm willing to pay.
YMMV.

Yes, it's the cost thing that bugs both my friend and me. *Your information
is excellent though. *My friend knows as much about computers as his cat;
but he can carefully follow a set of instructions. * He does use a roof
antenna to feed his sets (the analog set is fed through a converter box) and
doesn't need to reposition the antenna to get all the stations in the area.
He's perfectly willing to record with one set and watch the other if two
shows are on at the same time. *But, he's more likely to do time shifting
and want to set a timer to record a show while he's at work or away for
viewing later.

So far from the comments here, I see two choices given his interests and
capabilities: (1) Get a TIVO or cable TV recorder system and pay the big
bucks forever

With Tivo you can buy a lifetime subscription for
about $300. *And the older units definitely worked
without a subscription, but it's then just a dumb
time/channel machine. *I've heard the new Tivos
won't work without the subscription, but not sure
if that's true.

The problem for you is that the cost of a new Tivo
with lifetimes is around $550- $600. *That can be
recovered in 3 - 4 years if you're replacing a cable
box DVR. *I'm saving $14 a month. *In your case,
with just antenna, it's a different proposition. *You
can check Ebay for used Tivos as well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

do what i did buy a used tivo for 30 bucks whos service has
expired.try craiglist.

activate for 1 month as monthly. if it works well buy lifetime 300
bucks.

this gets your costs down to just over 300 bucks

craigslist has lots of tivos cheap.

On 1/18/2012 8:10 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Jan 18, 8:10 am,
wrote:
On Jan 17, 8:27 pm, wrote:





wrote in message

...

On 1/15/2012 1:38 PM, Tomsic wrote:
So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes,
a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the
VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record
TV
shows when he wants. He likes to record shows late at night and when
he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. The VCR worked
great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to
just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly
services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic

Assuming you're in the USA??
There are several issues to consider.
The most of important is, "What do you mean by the plural 'shows'?"
If you want to record multiple shows AT THE SAME TIME, you've got
a problem.

Can you view ALL the channels you want to record with one antenna
direction? If you've got multipath and have to turn the antenna
to get a channel, that makes multiple channel recordings, or unattended
recording of a single channel problematic.

Whatever you use has to have an internal or external ATSC tuner.
You can't buy a new VCR with an ATSC, at least not at a rational price.
Thank your legislators for preventing vendors including tuners that
didn't do ATSC. So the vendors left 'em out.

That makes programming a nightmare. You have to program the VCR AND the
tuner simultaneously. I tried it for a while, but gave up trying to get
it right.

I tried a couple of DVD recorders without success. If there was ANY
glitch
in the recording process, like a bad spot on the DVD or a pixelation
due to a plane flying over or ANYTHING not perfect, the recorder
gave up and aborted. I ended up with the first few minutes of a show
before it ALWAYS found some reason to abort. There was no recovery
process.

I ended up with two VCRs and four digital converter boxes.
I could set two channels on each recorder and program the VCR to record
either channel. That worked fine, but since I'm home while the recordings
are happening, I ditched two of the converter boxes and switch it
manually.

I also have a TV tuner card in my PC. ATI HDTV wonder. It works mostly,
but if I do much else on the computer, the recording skips.
Also skips a lot on some channels.

I've tried a couple of other cards without success. Either no drivers
or too resource hungry to run on a 2.8GHz computer. There's a lot of
difference in the ability of a given tuner to get a reliable picture
in a multipath area.

Some of the older cable boxes will let you tune OTA hdtv without service.
So, I have a Hughes HTL-HD plumbed into the monitor.

So, I can record one HD channel on the computer if it's on a good
reception channel,
Two lowD channels on the VCRs and watch one HD channel on the computer
monitor.

The more popular shows can be viewed on network websites if you have
the bandwidth.

Most people would find this setup unacceptable.

People who report being happy have multiple dual-tuner cards
(with hardware assist) in a
dedicated multi-core PC.
But it ain't cheap.

It won't be too long before you can stream anything you want on demand.
But it will never be at a cost I'm willing to pay.
YMMV.

Yes, it's the cost thing that bugs both my friend and me. Your information
is excellent though. My friend knows as much about computers as his cat;
but he can carefully follow a set of instructions. He does use a roof
antenna to feed his sets (the analog set is fed through a converter box) and
doesn't need to reposition the antenna to get all the stations in the area.
He's perfectly willing to record with one set and watch the other if two
shows are on at the same time. But, he's more likely to do time shifting
and want to set a timer to record a show while he's at work or away for
viewing later.

So far from the comments here, I see two choices given his interests and
capabilities: (1) Get a TIVO or cable TV recorder system and pay the big
bucks forever

With Tivo you can buy a lifetime subscription for
about $300. And the older units definitely worked
without a subscription, but it's then just a dumb
time/channel machine. I've heard the new Tivos
won't work without the subscription, but not sure
if that's true.

The problem for you is that the cost of a new Tivo
with lifetimes is around $550- $600. That can be
recovered in 3 - 4 years if you're replacing a cable
box DVR. I'm saving $14 a month. In your case,
with just antenna, it's a different proposition. You
can check Ebay for used Tivos as well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

do what i did buy a used tivo for 30 bucks whos service has
expired.try craiglist.

activate for 1 month as monthly. if it works well buy lifetime 300
bucks.

this gets your costs down to just over 300 bucks

craigslist has lots of tivos cheap.

i guess just buying the damn magnavox hard drive dvr for ~$250 is just
too hard for everyone to comprend eh?

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Jan 18, 9:10*am, bob haller wrote:
On Jan 18, 8:10*am, "
wrote:





On Jan 17, 8:27*pm, "Nono" wrote:

"mike" wrote in message

...

On 1/15/2012 1:38 PM, Tomsic wrote:
So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes,
a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. *One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the
VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record
TV
shows when he wants. *He likes to record shows late at night and when
he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. *The VCR worked
great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. *What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to
just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly
services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic

Assuming you're in the USA??
There are several issues to consider.
The most of important is, "What do you mean by the plural 'shows'?"
If you want to record multiple shows AT THE SAME TIME, you've got
a problem.

Can you view ALL the channels you want to record with one antenna
direction? *If you've got multipath and have to turn the antenna
to get a channel, that makes multiple channel recordings, or unattended
recording of a single channel problematic.

Whatever you use has to have an internal or external ATSC tuner.
You can't buy a new VCR with an ATSC, at least not at a rational price.
Thank your legislators for preventing vendors including tuners that
didn't do ATSC. *So the vendors left 'em out.

That makes programming a nightmare. *You have to program the VCR AND the
tuner simultaneously. *I tried it for a while, but gave up trying to get
it right.

I tried a couple of DVD recorders without success. *If there was ANY
glitch
in the recording process, like a bad spot on the DVD or a pixelation
due to a plane flying over or ANYTHING not perfect, the recorder
gave up and aborted. *I ended up with the first few minutes of a show
before it ALWAYS found some reason to abort. *There was no recovery
process.

I ended up with two VCRs and four digital converter boxes.
I could set two channels on each recorder and program the VCR to record
either channel. *That worked fine, but since I'm home while the recordings
are happening, I ditched two of the converter boxes and switch it
manually.

I also have a TV tuner card in my PC. *ATI HDTV wonder. *It works mostly,
but if I do much else on the computer, the recording skips.
Also skips a lot on some channels.

I've tried a couple of other cards without success. *Either no drivers
or too resource hungry to run on a 2.8GHz computer. *There's a lot of
difference in the ability of a given tuner to get a reliable picture
in a multipath area.

Some of the older cable boxes will let you tune OTA hdtv without service.
So, I have a Hughes HTL-HD plumbed into the monitor.

So, I can record one HD channel on the computer if it's on a good
reception channel,
Two lowD channels on the VCRs and watch one HD channel on the computer
monitor.

The more popular shows can be viewed on network websites if you have
the bandwidth.

Most people would find this setup unacceptable.

People who report being happy have multiple dual-tuner cards
(with hardware assist) in a
dedicated multi-core PC.
But it ain't cheap.

It won't be too long before you can stream anything you want on demand.
But it will never be at a cost I'm willing to pay.
YMMV.

Yes, it's the cost thing that bugs both my friend and me. *Your information
is excellent though. *My friend knows as much about computers as his cat;
but he can carefully follow a set of instructions. * He does use a roof
antenna to feed his sets (the analog set is fed through a converter box) and
doesn't need to reposition the antenna to get all the stations in the area.
He's perfectly willing to record with one set and watch the other if two
shows are on at the same time. *But, he's more likely to do time shifting
and want to set a timer to record a show while he's at work or away for
viewing later.

So far from the comments here, I see two choices given his interests and
capabilities: (1) Get a TIVO or cable TV recorder system and pay the big
bucks forever

With Tivo you can buy a lifetime subscription for
about $300. *And the older units definitely worked
without a subscription, but it's then just a dumb
time/channel machine. *I've heard the new Tivos
won't work without the subscription, but not sure
if that's true.

The problem for you is that the cost of a new Tivo
with lifetimes is around $550- $600. *That can be
recovered in 3 - 4 years if you're replacing a cable
box DVR. *I'm saving $14 a month. *In your case,
with just antenna, it's a different proposition. *You
can check Ebay for used Tivos as well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

do what i did buy a used tivo for 30 bucks whos service has
expired.try craiglist.

activate for 1 month as monthly. if it works well buy lifetime 300
bucks.

this gets your costs down to just over 300 bucks

craigslist has lots of tivos cheap.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd be a bit careful. That $30 Tivo was not HD, right?
And the older ones that are not HD may not be
compatible with an external ATSC tuner. I no for a
fact that at least some of the early ones will not
work with an external ATSC tuner/converter. If it
were me, before spending $300, I'd want something
HD compatible. Also, there are Tivos on Ebay that
include the lifetime subscription, whether new, used
etc.

On Jan 18, 9:18*am, "
wrote:
On Jan 18, 9:10*am, bob haller wrote:





On Jan 18, 8:10*am, "
wrote:

On Jan 17, 8:27*pm, "Nono" wrote:

"mike" wrote in message

...

On 1/15/2012 1:38 PM, Tomsic wrote:
So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes,
a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. *One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the
VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record
TV
shows when he wants. *He likes to record shows late at night and when
he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. *The VCR worked
great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. *What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to
just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly
services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic

Assuming you're in the USA??
There are several issues to consider.
The most of important is, "What do you mean by the plural 'shows'?"
If you want to record multiple shows AT THE SAME TIME, you've got
a problem.

Can you view ALL the channels you want to record with one antenna
direction? *If you've got multipath and have to turn the antenna
to get a channel, that makes multiple channel recordings, or unattended
recording of a single channel problematic.

Whatever you use has to have an internal or external ATSC tuner.
You can't buy a new VCR with an ATSC, at least not at a rational price.
Thank your legislators for preventing vendors including tuners that
didn't do ATSC. *So the vendors left 'em out.

That makes programming a nightmare. *You have to program the VCR AND the
tuner simultaneously. *I tried it for a while, but gave up trying to get
it right.

I tried a couple of DVD recorders without success. *If there was ANY
glitch
in the recording process, like a bad spot on the DVD or a pixelation
due to a plane flying over or ANYTHING not perfect, the recorder
gave up and aborted. *I ended up with the first few minutes of a show
before it ALWAYS found some reason to abort. *There was no recovery
process.

I ended up with two VCRs and four digital converter boxes.
I could set two channels on each recorder and program the VCR to record
either channel. *That worked fine, but since I'm home while the recordings
are happening, I ditched two of the converter boxes and switch it
manually.

I also have a TV tuner card in my PC. *ATI HDTV wonder. *It works mostly,
but if I do much else on the computer, the recording skips.
Also skips a lot on some channels.

I've tried a couple of other cards without success. *Either no drivers
or too resource hungry to run on a 2.8GHz computer. *There's a lot of
difference in the ability of a given tuner to get a reliable picture
in a multipath area.

Some of the older cable boxes will let you tune OTA hdtv without service.
So, I have a Hughes HTL-HD plumbed into the monitor.

So, I can record one HD channel on the computer if it's on a good
reception channel,
Two lowD channels on the VCRs and watch one HD channel on the computer
monitor.

The more popular shows can be viewed on network websites if you have
the bandwidth.

Most people would find this setup unacceptable.

People who report being happy have multiple dual-tuner cards
(with hardware assist) in a
dedicated multi-core PC.
But it ain't cheap.

It won't be too long before you can stream anything you want on demand.
But it will never be at a cost I'm willing to pay.
YMMV.

Yes, it's the cost thing that bugs both my friend and me. *Your information
is excellent though. *My friend knows as much about computers as his cat;
but he can carefully follow a set of instructions. * He does use a roof
antenna to feed his sets (the analog set is fed through a converter box) and
doesn't need to reposition the antenna to get all the stations in the area.
He's perfectly willing to record with one set and watch the other if two
shows are on at the same time. *But, he's more likely to do time shifting
and want to set a timer to record a show while he's at work or away for
viewing later.

So far from the comments here, I see two choices given his interests and
capabilities: (1) Get a TIVO or cable TV recorder system and pay the big
bucks forever

With Tivo you can buy a lifetime subscription for
about $300. *And the older units definitely worked
without a subscription, but it's then just a dumb
time/channel machine. *I've heard the new Tivos
won't work without the subscription, but not sure
if that's true.

The problem for you is that the cost of a new Tivo
with lifetimes is around $550- $600. *That can be
recovered in 3 - 4 years if you're replacing a cable
box DVR. *I'm saving $14 a month. *In your case,
with just antenna, it's a different proposition. *You
can check Ebay for used Tivos as well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

do what i did buy a used tivo for 30 bucks whos service has
expired.try craiglist.

activate for 1 month as monthly. if it works well buy lifetime 300
bucks.

this gets your costs down to just over 300 bucks

craigslist has lots of tivos cheap.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd be a bit careful. *That $30 Tivo was not HD, right?
And the older ones that are not HD may not be
compatible with an external ATSC tuner. *I no for a
fact that at least some of the early ones will not
work with an external ATSC tuner/converter. *If it
were me, before spending $300, I'd want something
HD compatible. * Also, there are Tivos on Ebay that
include the lifetime subscription, whether new, used
etc.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

mine is high def, it uses a cablecard provided by comcast but did work
OTA for awhile....... its a tivo premier unit that cn also use a
external hard drive.

you must know what your buying

On 1/18/2012 9:17 AM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 1/18/2012 8:10 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Jan 18, 8:10 am,
wrote:
On Jan 17, 8:27 pm, wrote:





wrote in message

...

On 1/15/2012 1:38 PM, Tomsic wrote:
So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter
boxes,
a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we
tossed the
VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can
record
TV
shows when he wants. He likes to record shows late at night and when
he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. The VCR worked
great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. What black box
should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be
programmed to
just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly
services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he
still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic

Assuming you're in the USA??
There are several issues to consider.
The most of important is, "What do you mean by the plural 'shows'?"
If you want to record multiple shows AT THE SAME TIME, you've got
a problem.

Can you view ALL the channels you want to record with one antenna
direction? If you've got multipath and have to turn the antenna
to get a channel, that makes multiple channel recordings, or
unattended
recording of a single channel problematic.

Whatever you use has to have an internal or external ATSC tuner.
You can't buy a new VCR with an ATSC, at least not at a rational
price.
Thank your legislators for preventing vendors including tuners that
didn't do ATSC. So the vendors left 'em out.

That makes programming a nightmare. You have to program the VCR AND
the
tuner simultaneously. I tried it for a while, but gave up trying to
get
it right.

I tried a couple of DVD recorders without success. If there was ANY
glitch
in the recording process, like a bad spot on the DVD or a pixelation
due to a plane flying over or ANYTHING not perfect, the recorder
gave up and aborted. I ended up with the first few minutes of a show
before it ALWAYS found some reason to abort. There was no recovery
process.

I ended up with two VCRs and four digital converter boxes.
I could set two channels on each recorder and program the VCR to
record
either channel. That worked fine, but since I'm home while the
recordings
are happening, I ditched two of the converter boxes and switch it
manually.

I also have a TV tuner card in my PC. ATI HDTV wonder. It works
mostly,
but if I do much else on the computer, the recording skips.
Also skips a lot on some channels.

I've tried a couple of other cards without success. Either no drivers
or too resource hungry to run on a 2.8GHz computer. There's a lot of
difference in the ability of a given tuner to get a reliable picture
in a multipath area.

Some of the older cable boxes will let you tune OTA hdtv without
service.
So, I have a Hughes HTL-HD plumbed into the monitor.

So, I can record one HD channel on the computer if it's on a good
reception channel,
Two lowD channels on the VCRs and watch one HD channel on the computer
monitor.

The more popular shows can be viewed on network websites if you have
the bandwidth.

Most people would find this setup unacceptable.

People who report being happy have multiple dual-tuner cards
(with hardware assist) in a
dedicated multi-core PC.
But it ain't cheap.

It won't be too long before you can stream anything you want on
demand.
But it will never be at a cost I'm willing to pay.
YMMV.

Yes, it's the cost thing that bugs both my friend and me. Your
information
is excellent though. My friend knows as much about computers as his
cat;
but he can carefully follow a set of instructions. He does use a roof
antenna to feed his sets (the analog set is fed through a converter
box) and
doesn't need to reposition the antenna to get all the stations in
the area.
He's perfectly willing to record with one set and watch the other if
two
shows are on at the same time. But, he's more likely to do time
shifting
and want to set a timer to record a show while he's at work or away for
viewing later.

So far from the comments here, I see two choices given his interests
and
capabilities: (1) Get a TIVO or cable TV recorder system and pay the
big
bucks forever

With Tivo you can buy a lifetime subscription for
about $300. And the older units definitely worked
without a subscription, but it's then just a dumb
time/channel machine. I've heard the new Tivos
won't work without the subscription, but not sure
if that's true.

The problem for you is that the cost of a new Tivo
with lifetimes is around $550- $600. That can be
recovered in 3 - 4 years if you're replacing a cable
box DVR. I'm saving $14 a month. In your case,
with just antenna, it's a different proposition. You
can check Ebay for used Tivos as well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

do what i did buy a used tivo for 30 bucks whos service has
expired.try craiglist.

activate for 1 month as monthly. if it works well buy lifetime 300
bucks.

this gets your costs down to just over 300 bucks

craigslist has lots of tivos cheap.

i guess just buying the damn magnavox hard drive dvr for ~$250 is just
too hard for everyone to comprend eh?


Have you ever considered that someone might want something more than a
device that has such a limited feature set?

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 05:10:44 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 17, 8:27*pm, "Nono" wrote:
"mike" wrote in message

...





On 1/15/2012 1:38 PM, Tomsic wrote:
So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes,
a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. *One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the
VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record
TV
shows when he wants. *He likes to record shows late at night and when
he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. *The VCR worked
great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. *What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to
just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly
services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic

Assuming you're in the USA??
There are several issues to consider.
The most of important is, "What do you mean by the plural 'shows'?"
If you want to record multiple shows AT THE SAME TIME, you've got
a problem.

Can you view ALL the channels you want to record with one antenna
direction? *If you've got multipath and have to turn the antenna
to get a channel, that makes multiple channel recordings, or unattended
recording of a single channel problematic.

Whatever you use has to have an internal or external ATSC tuner.
You can't buy a new VCR with an ATSC, at least not at a rational price.
Thank your legislators for preventing vendors including tuners that
didn't do ATSC. *So the vendors left 'em out.

That makes programming a nightmare. *You have to program the VCR AND the
tuner simultaneously. *I tried it for a while, but gave up trying to get
it right.

I tried a couple of DVD recorders without success. *If there was ANY
glitch
in the recording process, like a bad spot on the DVD or a pixelation
due to a plane flying over or ANYTHING not perfect, the recorder
gave up and aborted. *I ended up with the first few minutes of a show
before it ALWAYS found some reason to abort. *There was no recovery
process.

I ended up with two VCRs and four digital converter boxes.
I could set two channels on each recorder and program the VCR to record
either channel. *That worked fine, but since I'm home while the recordings
are happening, I ditched two of the converter boxes and switch it
manually.

I also have a TV tuner card in my PC. *ATI HDTV wonder. *It works mostly,
but if I do much else on the computer, the recording skips.
Also skips a lot on some channels.

I've tried a couple of other cards without success. *Either no drivers
or too resource hungry to run on a 2.8GHz computer. *There's a lot of
difference in the ability of a given tuner to get a reliable picture
in a multipath area.

Some of the older cable boxes will let you tune OTA hdtv without service.
So, I have a Hughes HTL-HD plumbed into the monitor.

So, I can record one HD channel on the computer if it's on a good
reception channel,
Two lowD channels on the VCRs and watch one HD channel on the computer
monitor.

The more popular shows can be viewed on network websites if you have
the bandwidth.

Most people would find this setup unacceptable.

People who report being happy have multiple dual-tuner cards
(with hardware assist) in a
dedicated multi-core PC.
But it ain't cheap.

It won't be too long before you can stream anything you want on demand.
But it will never be at a cost I'm willing to pay.
YMMV.

Yes, it's the cost thing that bugs both my friend and me. *Your information
is excellent though. *My friend knows as much about computers as his cat;
but he can carefully follow a set of instructions. * He does use a roof
antenna to feed his sets (the analog set is fed through a converter box) and
doesn't need to reposition the antenna to get all the stations in the area.
He's perfectly willing to record with one set and watch the other if two
shows are on at the same time. *But, he's more likely to do time shifting
and want to set a timer to record a show while he's at work or away for
viewing later.

So far from the comments here, I see two choices given his interests and
capabilities: (1) Get a TIVO or cable TV recorder system and pay the big
bucks forever


With Tivo you can buy a lifetime subscription for
about $300. And the older units definitely worked
without a subscription, but it's then just a dumb
time/channel machine. I've heard the new Tivos
won't work without the subscription, but not sure
if that's true.

If it's replacing a dumb VCR as a time/channel machine...

The problem for you is that the cost of a new Tivo
with lifetimes is around $550- $600. That can be
recovered in 3 - 4 years if you're replacing a cable
box DVR. I'm saving $14 a month. In your case,
with just antenna, it's a different proposition. You
can check Ebay for used Tivos as well.

I haven't had a "cable" box last 3-4 years. We're on the sixth Dish DVR in
six months (SWMBO finally told them to get someone's ass out there to fix it
or they were going to wear it in an uncomfortable place, along with the
service).

On Jan 18, 9:57*am, bob haller wrote:
On Jan 18, 9:18*am, "
wrote:





On Jan 18, 9:10*am, bob haller wrote:

On Jan 18, 8:10*am, "
wrote:

On Jan 17, 8:27*pm, "Nono" wrote:

"mike" wrote in message

...

On 1/15/2012 1:38 PM, Tomsic wrote:
So, lightning struck a friend's house recently and fried most of the
electronics inside including two TV sets, their digital converter boxes,
a
telephone answering machine, VCR and a clock radio. *One of the TVs is
fixed; the other was replaced with a flat screen type and we tossed the
VCR.
It's time to convert to digital.

The question is how should we set up the system so my friend can record
TV
shows when he wants. *He likes to record shows late at night and when
he's
not around and then play them back when he has time. *The VCR worked
great;
but it doesn't make sense to use tape any more. *What black box should he
get to connect to the TV to do the recording that can be programmed to
just
record and play back -- no cable, no subscriptions or extra monthly
services
although I might convince him to get DSL internet service (he still uses
dial up).

TV recording/playback is the essential thing though.

Tomsic

Assuming you're in the USA??
There are several issues to consider.
The most of important is, "What do you mean by the plural 'shows'?"
If you want to record multiple shows AT THE SAME TIME, you've got
a problem.

Can you view ALL the channels you want to record with one antenna
direction? *If you've got multipath and have to turn the antenna
to get a channel, that makes multiple channel recordings, or unattended
recording of a single channel problematic.

Whatever you use has to have an internal or external ATSC tuner..
You can't buy a new VCR with an ATSC, at least not at a rational price.
Thank your legislators for preventing vendors including tuners that
didn't do ATSC. *So the vendors left 'em out.

That makes programming a nightmare. *You have to program the VCR AND the
tuner simultaneously. *I tried it for a while, but gave up trying to get
it right.

I tried a couple of DVD recorders without success. *If there was ANY
glitch
in the recording process, like a bad spot on the DVD or a pixelation
due to a plane flying over or ANYTHING not perfect, the recorder
gave up and aborted. *I ended up with the first few minutes of a show
before it ALWAYS found some reason to abort. *There was no recovery
process.

I ended up with two VCRs and four digital converter boxes.
I could set two channels on each recorder and program the VCR to record
either channel. *That worked fine, but since I'm home while the recordings
are happening, I ditched two of the converter boxes and switch it
manually.

I also have a TV tuner card in my PC. *ATI HDTV wonder. *It works mostly,
but if I do much else on the computer, the recording skips.
Also skips a lot on some channels.

I've tried a couple of other cards without success. *Either no drivers
or too resource hungry to run on a 2.8GHz computer. *There's a lot of
difference in the ability of a given tuner to get a reliable picture
in a multipath area.

Some of the older cable boxes will let you tune OTA hdtv without service.
So, I have a Hughes HTL-HD plumbed into the monitor.

So, I can record one HD channel on the computer if it's on a good
reception channel,
Two lowD channels on the VCRs and watch one HD channel on the computer
monitor.

The more popular shows can be viewed on network websites if you have
the bandwidth.

Most people would find this setup unacceptable.

People who report being happy have multiple dual-tuner cards
(with hardware assist) in a
dedicated multi-core PC.
But it ain't cheap.

It won't be too long before you can stream anything you want on demand.
But it will never be at a cost I'm willing to pay.
YMMV.

Yes, it's the cost thing that bugs both my friend and me. *Your information
is excellent though. *My friend knows as much about computers as his cat;
but he can carefully follow a set of instructions. * He does use a roof
antenna to feed his sets (the analog set is fed through a converter box) and
doesn't need to reposition the antenna to get all the stations in the area.
He's perfectly willing to record with one set and watch the other if two
shows are on at the same time. *But, he's more likely to do time shifting
and want to set a timer to record a show while he's at work or away for
viewing later.

So far from the comments here, I see two choices given his interests and
capabilities: (1) Get a TIVO or cable TV recorder system and pay the big
bucks forever

With Tivo you can buy a lifetime subscription for
about $300. *And the older units definitely worked
without a subscription, but it's then just a dumb
time/channel machine. *I've heard the new Tivos
won't work without the subscription, but not sure
if that's true.

The problem for you is that the cost of a new Tivo
with lifetimes is around $550- $600. *That can be
recovered in 3 - 4 years if you're replacing a cable
box DVR. *I'm saving $14 a month. *In your case,
with just antenna, it's a different proposition. *You
can check Ebay for used Tivos as well.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

do what i did buy a used tivo for 30 bucks whos service has
expired.try craiglist.

activate for 1 month as monthly. if it works well buy lifetime 300
bucks.

this gets your costs down to just over 300 bucks

craigslist has lots of tivos cheap.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd be a bit careful. *That $30 Tivo was not HD, right?
And the older ones that are not HD may not be
compatible with an external ATSC tuner. *I no for a
fact that at least some of the early ones will not
work with an external ATSC tuner/converter. *If it
were me, before spending $300, I'd want something
HD compatible. * Also, there are Tivos on Ebay that
include the lifetime subscription, whether new, used
etc.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

mine is high def, it uses a cablecard provided by comcast but did work
OTA for awhile....... its a tivo premier unit that cn also use a
external hard drive.

you must know what your buying- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's quite a deal you got on Ebay! I would not have
thought it possible. Tivo was selling
the Premier for $300 a year ago. I got $100 off, because
I already owned one Tivo, but the whole thing still wound
up costing me about $500 with lifetime service.

I just looked at the Tivo website and they are now
selling the Premier for $99, which is a great price.

So, for $400 the OP could have a Tivo with lifetime
service, which could start to compare favorably with
other options for his use. Remaining things to watch
out for would be:

A - I've heard the newer ones require a subscription to
work even as a dumb recorder. Not sure about that.

B - The Premier requires an ethernet connection
which it uses to get the schedules, software updates,
etc.