I think I've got a problem with the motion detector that controls the
lights on the garage. It has always been 'odd'- but now it just
seems to *not* detect anything some days-- and on others seems to be
tripping when nothing is there. [though I can't rule out critters
tripping it]

It has been hanging there for 5-6 years & since day 1 it will let a
car drive right up to the garage [straight at it] and not trip until
the driver gets out of the car. It is supposedly a 180degree
sensor, but 120 would be generous, and the edges seem to wave back and
forth.

The way I have this set up, if it matters, is the sensor is mounted
above the door and operates carriage lights on either side of the
door.

The lights are switched-- but not 3-way.

So is there a *really* good detector that has a wide field of view,
and will detect objects coming straight at it up to about 100 feet
away? [minimum of 50']

Thanks
Jim

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 07:52:53 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

I think I've got a problem with the motion detector that controls the
lights on the garage. It has always been 'odd'- but now it just
seems to *not* detect anything some days-- and on others seems to be
tripping when nothing is there. [though I can't rule out critters
tripping it]

So is there a *really* good detector that has a wide field of view,
and will detect objects coming straight at it up to about 100 feet
away? [minimum of 50']

The one I have now works better than any I've used over the past 15
years or so. Most are crappy. I don't know what brand it is off hand,
but I bought it at Lowes and it has a "soft start" that extends the
bulb life too. It has been up for a year and works well in bad
weather, warm weather, etc.

I don't know about distance as I have it aimed to go on at about 25
feet or so, but it will go on from sensing the car and not the driver.

On 12/17/2011 7:52 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
I think I've got a problem with the motion detector that controls the
lights on the garage. It has always been 'odd'- but now it just
seems to *not* detect anything some days-- and on others seems to be
tripping when nothing is there. [though I can't rule out critters
tripping it]

It has been hanging there for 5-6 years& since day 1 it will let a
car drive right up to the garage [straight at it] and not trip until
the driver gets out of the car. It is supposedly a 180degree
sensor, but 120 would be generous, and the edges seem to wave back and
forth.

The way I have this set up, if it matters, is the sensor is mounted
above the door and operates carriage lights on either side of the
door.

The lights are switched-- but not 3-way.

So is there a *really* good detector that has a wide field of view,
and will detect objects coming straight at it up to about 100 feet
away? [minimum of 50']

Thanks
Jim
I use an X10 motion detector without any floods. Then when it detects
and sends and x10 signal, the program another box turns on the house
floods on that side of the house, if it's nighttime and sounds a chime
in the house. But, it will not detect a cold car or a car that is at
the ambient air temperature. So, if a car is running a a pretty high
speed and then pops in front of the detector, it probably sees no
difference and ignores it. However, if the car is really warmed up and
approaches slowly, allowing the hood, etc. to warm up, it detects as the
sensor sees a difference between the air temperature and the car.
Because I have a slow very steep road coming to my drive and then about
100' of drive, it usually detects. Although, at Halloween, I actually
put one of these sensors next to the road to fire off a Halloween
animation. It usually saw most cars, however, when I was testing with
my own car, cold out of the garage, it occasionally missed. Another
problem is that when the outside temperature gets to the upper 90s, it
won't detect a person, again because there is little difference between
the body and the ambient. The best way to reliably detect a vehicle
coming onto your driveway is either a pressure sensor or metal mass
detector, or a photo cell across the drive; the former probably won't
detect critters, the latter will if they are tall enough. Sorry for
rambling on.

On Dec 17, 5:52*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
I think I've got a problem with the motion detector that controls the
lights on the garage. * *It has always been 'odd'- but now it just
seems to *not* detect anything some days-- and on others seems to be
tripping when nothing is there. [though I can't rule out critters
tripping it]

It has been hanging there for 5-6 years & since day 1 it will let a
car drive right up to the garage [straight at it] and not trip until
the driver gets out of the car. * *It is supposedly a 180degree
sensor, but 120 would be generous, and the edges seem to wave back and
forth.

The way I have this set up, if it matters, is the sensor is mounted
above the door and operates carriage lights on either side of the
door.

The lights are switched-- but not 3-way.

So is there a *really* good detector that has a wide field of view,
and will detect objects coming straight at it up to about 100 feet
away? *[minimum of 50']

Thanks
Jim

try your question on alt.security.alarms

I just asked this question there.

It appears two technologies stand out:
optic/passive IR and microwave
Honeywell makes a series of motion detectors for the security
industry. These are installed by pro's, might meet your needs
Honeywell 5800PIR-OD
http://www.security.honeywell.com/hs...s/wireless/mo/
258579.html

However, for vehicles and distance it sounds more like the microwave
would work better.
Protech: Piramid XL2 microwave stereo doppler processing
http://www.protechusa.com

If you get too cheap on this function you end up with a 'critter'
detector or worse, a 'fair weather' detector.

On Dec 17, 8:17*am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 07:52:53 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

I think I've got a problem with the motion detector that controls the
lights on the garage. * *It has always been 'odd'- but now it just
seems to *not* detect anything some days-- and on others seems to be
tripping when nothing is there. [though I can't rule out critters
tripping it]
So is there a *really* good detector that has a wide field of view,
and will detect objects coming straight at it up to about 100 feet
away? *[minimum of 50']

The one I have now works better than any I've used over the past 15
years or so. Most are crappy. *I don't know what brand it is off hand,
but I bought it at Lowes and it has a "soft start" that extends the
bulb life too. *It has been up for a year and works well in bad
weather, warm weather, etc.

I don't know about distance as I have it aimed to go on at about 25
feet or so, but it will go on from sensing the car and not the driver.

"...but it will go on from sensing the car and not the driver."

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Isn't the driver *in* the
car?

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 07:01:45 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Dec 17, 8:17*am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 07:52:53 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:



The one I have now works better than any I've used over the past 15
years or so. Most are crappy. *I don't know what brand it is off hand,
but I bought it at Lowes and it has a "soft start" that extends the
bulb life too. *It has been up for a year and works well in bad
weather, warm weather, etc.

I don't know about distance as I have it aimed to go on at about 25
feet or so, but it will go on from sensing the car and not the driver.

"...but it will go on from sensing the car and not the driver."

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Isn't the driver *in* the
car?


Yes, but the motion detector will not know you are in the car. The
car is a big hunk of cold metal. Many of these sensors are actually
sensing heat, not motion. You can pull up in the car and it will not
go off. Only when the driver gets out of the car, it will sense body
heat and turn the light on.

The one I have now will sense the car, even when I back into the
driveway. It may be sensing the warm exhaust, but in any case, it
works better than my old ones.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote

Yes, but the motion detector will not know you are in the car. The
car is a big hunk of cold metal. Many of these sensors are actually
sensing heat, not motion. You can pull up in the car and it will not
go off. Only when the driver gets out of the car, it will sense body
heat and turn the light on.

The one I have now will sense the car, even when I back into the
driveway. It may be sensing the warm exhaust, but in any case, it
works better than my old ones.

Huh? Isn't the engine in front of a car warm at least when it drives up?
I've seen those FLIR videos of police chases, and the engines are white hot
to the sensor. I would think an engine that has been driven enough to get
the heater warm would put off more heat than a person at 98.6 with a coat
on.

Steve

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 07:52:53 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

I think I've got a problem with the motion detector that controls the
lights on the garage. It has always been 'odd'- but now it just
seems to *not* detect anything some days-- and on others seems to be
tripping when nothing is there. [though I can't rule out critters
tripping it]

It has been hanging there for 5-6 years & since day 1 it will let a
car drive right up to the garage [straight at it] and not trip until
the driver gets out of the car. It is supposedly a 180degree
sensor, but 120 would be generous, and the edges seem to wave back and
forth.

The way I have this set up, if it matters, is the sensor is mounted
above the door and operates carriage lights on either side of the
door.

The lights are switched-- but not 3-way.

So is there a *really* good detector that has a wide field of view,
and will detect objects coming straight at it up to about 100 feet
away? [minimum of 50']

Thanks
Jim
In answer to your last question first - yes, there is likely a REALLY
GOOD" motion sensor available that will do what you are asking it to
do - but it will NOT come on a sub-100 dollar motion light fixture.

All the chinese kaka motion detector lights are pretty well the same -
unpredictable, unreliable, generally useless waste of money.

These cheap motion detectors sense moving heat sources , and only
when moving "across" their field of vision - either from side to side
or top to bottom. Approach one "head on" and it cannot sense motion -
no matter how high quality the particular unit is.

Using parallel connected remote sensors, mounted abot 20 feet apart
and aimed so their "feild of vision" crosses will give you the best
chance of more or less reliable detection - with a higher probability
of "false" triggers.

Using this strategy, anything coming "head on" to one sensor will be
crossing the field of vision of the second sensor, by default.

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 09:03:30 -0500, Art Todesco
wrote:

On 12/17/2011 7:52 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
I think I've got a problem with the motion detector that controls the
lights on the garage. It has always been 'odd'- but now it just
seems to *not* detect anything some days-- and on others seems to be
tripping when nothing is there. [though I can't rule out critters
tripping it]

It has been hanging there for 5-6 years& since day 1 it will let a
car drive right up to the garage [straight at it] and not trip until
the driver gets out of the car. It is supposedly a 180degree
sensor, but 120 would be generous, and the edges seem to wave back and
forth.

The way I have this set up, if it matters, is the sensor is mounted
above the door and operates carriage lights on either side of the
door.

The lights are switched-- but not 3-way.

So is there a *really* good detector that has a wide field of view,
and will detect objects coming straight at it up to about 100 feet
away? [minimum of 50']

Thanks
Jim
I use an X10 motion detector without any floods. Then when it detects
and sends and x10 signal, the program another box turns on the house
floods on that side of the house, if it's nighttime and sounds a chime
in the house. But, it will not detect a cold car or a car that is at
the ambient air temperature. So, if a car is running a a pretty high
speed and then pops in front of the detector, it probably sees no
difference and ignores it. However, if the car is really warmed up and
approaches slowly, allowing the hood, etc. to warm up, it detects as the
sensor sees a difference between the air temperature and the car.
Because I have a slow very steep road coming to my drive and then about
100' of drive, it usually detects. Although, at Halloween, I actually
put one of these sensors next to the road to fire off a Halloween
animation. It usually saw most cars, however, when I was testing with
my own car, cold out of the garage, it occasionally missed. Another
problem is that when the outside temperature gets to the upper 90s, it
won't detect a person, again because there is little difference between
the body and the ambient. The best way to reliably detect a vehicle
coming onto your driveway is either a pressure sensor or metal mass
detector, or a photo cell across the drive; the former probably won't
detect critters, the latter will if they are tall enough. Sorry for
rambling on.
The only "really good" motion detector I've ever seen is a video
camera with night vision running a pixel change comparator program on
a computer, controlling the lights. You set the percentage change rate
sensitivity on the program, and if, say, 10% of the pixels change over
a 15 second period, it triggers. This allows you to fine tune the
response to either respond or not respond to something the size of a
squirrel, or a racoon, or whatever.

A barn door moving at 1 foot per minute might be able to sneak in
where a running squirrel would be nabbed, depending on how you set it.

X10 has both the cameras and the software, as well as the
controllers, to set up this kind of system.

Again, to be 100% effective, 2 sensors with crossed field of vision
would work better by providing binaural vision

wrote

I use an X10 motion detector without any floods. Then when it detects
and sends and x10 signal, the program another box turns on the house
floods on that side of the house, if it's nighttime and sounds a chime
in the house. But, it will not detect a cold car or a car that is at
the ambient air temperature. So, if a car is running a a pretty high
speed and then pops in front of the detector, it probably sees no
difference and ignores it. However, if the car is really warmed up and
approaches slowly, allowing the hood, etc. to warm up, it detects as the
sensor sees a difference between the air temperature and the car.
Because I have a slow very steep road coming to my drive and then about
100' of drive, it usually detects. Although, at Halloween, I actually
put one of these sensors next to the road to fire off a Halloween
animation. It usually saw most cars, however, when I was testing with
my own car, cold out of the garage, it occasionally missed. Another
problem is that when the outside temperature gets to the upper 90s, it
won't detect a person, again because there is little difference between
the body and the ambient. The best way to reliably detect a vehicle
coming onto your driveway is either a pressure sensor or metal mass
detector, or a photo cell across the drive; the former probably won't
detect critters, the latter will if they are tall enough. Sorry for
rambling on.
The only "really good" motion detector I've ever seen is a video
camera with night vision running a pixel change comparator program on
a computer, controlling the lights. You set the percentage change rate
sensitivity on the program, and if, say, 10% of the pixels change over
a 15 second period, it triggers. This allows you to fine tune the
response to either respond or not respond to something the size of a
squirrel, or a racoon, or whatever.

A barn door moving at 1 foot per minute might be able to sneak in
where a running squirrel would be nabbed, depending on how you set it.

X10 has both the cameras and the software, as well as the
controllers, to set up this kind of system.

Again, to be 100% effective, 2 sensors with crossed field of vision
would work better by providing binaural vision

Thanks for the very good information. I am going to be putting a "system"
on my shop as soon as it is finished. I am going to splurge on this, as I
have YET to see a motion detector that either works right, or lasts very
long.

I keep seeing X10 come up, so take it that there are a lot of satisfied
users out there. I just want to get a reliable system that will detect
human bodies, and not animals in the night. I have seen one deer track on
my property in six years. Mainly, I want an intruder alarm for inside a
perimeter, and automatic lights on when it senses something.

I have five metal halides that came off a large hotel in Las Vegas. But
they are 110 stepped up to 220, and take about ten minutes to get bright.
Those will be on a timer for certain hours, and on a switch that I can
regulate. Those puppies make it look like daytime.

Thanks to everyone who made contributions here on this thread. The day
before this thread started, I was thinking of how to word a post about this,
but this has answered all my questions.

Except one. Is X10 the way to go for the money, or is there better that
won't cost an arm and a leg?

Steve

I don't know that an X-10 motion detector light is any better than any other but you can buy a motion detector without the light and program it to trip a light. That way you can put the motion detector at ground level pointing across the driveway instead of pointing down the driveway.

Also, maybe a silly question, but have you tried cleaning it? After a few years it might just be really dirty.

On Dec 17, 2:33*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
wrote





I use an X10 motion detector without any floods. *Then when it detects
and sends and x10 signal, the program another box turns on the house
floods on that side of the house, if it's nighttime and sounds a chime
in the house. *But, it will not detect a cold car or a car that is at
the ambient air temperature. *So, if a car is running a a pretty high
speed and then pops in front of the detector, it probably sees no
difference and ignores it. *However, if the car is really warmed up and
approaches slowly, allowing the hood, etc. to warm up, it detects as the
sensor sees a difference between the air temperature and the car.
Because I have a slow very steep road coming to my drive and then about
100' of drive, it usually detects. *Although, at Halloween, I actually
put one of these sensors next to the road to fire off a Halloween
animation. *It usually saw most cars, however, when I was testing with
my own car, cold out of the garage, it occasionally missed. *Another
problem is that when the outside temperature gets to the upper 90s, it
won't detect a person, again because there is little difference between
the body and the ambient. *The best way to reliably detect a vehicle
coming onto your driveway is either a pressure sensor or metal mass
detector, or a photo cell across the drive; the former probably won't
detect critters, the latter will if they are tall enough. *Sorry for
rambling on.
The only "really good" motion detector I've ever seen is a video
camera with night vision running a pixel change comparator program on
a computer, controlling the lights. You set the percentage change rate
sensitivity on the program, and if, say, 10% of the pixels change over
a 15 second period, it triggers. This allows you to fine tune the
response to either respond or not respond to something the size of a
squirrel, or a racoon, or whatever.

A barn door moving at 1 foot per minute might be able to sneak in
where a running squirrel would be nabbed, depending on how you set it.

X10 has both the cameras and the software, as well as the
controllers, to set up this kind of system.

Again, to be 100% effective, 2 sensors with crossed field of vision
would *work better by providing binaural vision

Thanks for the very good information. *I am going to be putting a "system"
on my shop as soon as it is finished. *I am going to splurge on this, as I
have YET to see a motion detector that either works right, or lasts very
long.

I keep seeing X10 come up, so take it that there are a lot of satisfied
users out there. *I just want to get a reliable system that will detect
human bodies, and not animals in the night. *I have seen one deer track on
my property in six years. *Mainly, I want an intruder alarm for inside a
perimeter, and automatic lights on when it senses something.

I have five metal halides that came off a large hotel in Las Vegas. *But
they are 110 stepped up to 220, and take about ten minutes to get bright.
Those will be on a timer for certain hours, and on a switch that I can
regulate. *Those puppies make it look like daytime.

Thanks to everyone who made contributions here on this thread. *The day
before this thread started, I was thinking of how to word a post about this,
but this has answered all my questions.

Except one. *Is X10 the way to go for the money, or is there better that
won't cost an arm and a leg?

Steve

For 'bright' light see if you can get those xenon arc thingies. They
used to be made by some tube company, Eimac?, in northern california.
I met the inventor, interesting engineer. You might be able to get
them at surplus outlets, too. Being an arc they fire then stabilized
at around 20V 10A [from memory]

The light source is constructed of quartz holding two electrodes
pointing at/facing each other with the resulting arc centered in a
parabolic reflector to throw the light forward, metal rings at each
end of the cylinder provide contact to each electrode.. I think they
were designed to be robust light sources unaffected by vibration to be
mounted on military vehicles like tanks. I heard a colleague mounted
four along the top rack on his 4WD, when he fired them up he said he
illuminated objects more than mile away. I can attest to their
brightness. I saw one of those old 16mm video projectors using one as
its light source running in bright office space, the tube lit the 15
foot screen beautifully, even against the bright office light
background

Anway, they are small, pretty fast coming on, super bright, and fairly
energy efficient.

I think they are also used in some medical product, endoscopy-like
lighting, where they provide bright, correct color for examinations.
Can't remember the company's name, though.

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
I think I've got a problem with the motion detector that controls the
lights on the garage. It has always been 'odd'- but now it just
seems to *not* detect anything some days-- and on others seems to be
tripping when nothing is there. [though I can't rule out critters
tripping it]

It has been hanging there for 5-6 years & since day 1 it will let a
car drive right up to the garage [straight at it] and not trip until
the driver gets out of the car. It is supposedly a 180degree
sensor, but 120 would be generous, and the edges seem to wave back and
forth.

The way I have this set up, if it matters, is the sensor is mounted
above the door and operates carriage lights on either side of the
door.

The lights are switched-- but not 3-way.

So is there a *really* good detector that has a wide field of view,
and will detect objects coming straight at it up to about 100 feet
away? [minimum of 50']


I don't have any insight as to the motion detectors, but what happens when a
thief pulls in your driveway and the garage door opens?

Aside from the thief telling his partner "Score!"

"HeyBub" wrote

I don't have any insight as to the motion detectors, but what happens when
a thief pulls in your driveway and the garage door opens?

Aside from the thief telling his partner "Score!"

You slap your wife and scold her for opening the garage for strangers?

What do I win?

Steve

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 10:35:06 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
I think I've got a problem with the motion detector that controls the
lights on the garage. It has always been 'odd'- but now it just
seems to *not* detect anything some days-- and on others seems to be
tripping when nothing is there. [though I can't rule out critters
tripping it]

It has been hanging there for 5-6 years & since day 1 it will let a
car drive right up to the garage [straight at it] and not trip until
the driver gets out of the car. It is supposedly a 180degree
sensor, but 120 would be generous, and the edges seem to wave back and
forth.

The way I have this set up, if it matters, is the sensor is mounted
above the door and operates carriage lights on either side of the
door.

The lights are switched-- but not 3-way.

So is there a *really* good detector that has a wide field of view,
and will detect objects coming straight at it up to about 100 feet
away? [minimum of 50']


I don't have any insight as to the motion detectors, but what happens when a
thief pulls in your driveway and the garage door opens?


Aside from the facts that;
1. my garage door is generally open anyway,
2. the motion detector is just to operate lights,
3.by the time the thief found anything of value in there either me, or
my neighbor would be 'talking to him'
.. . .

I would guess, that if he saw the door open, he might suspect that
someone just opened it, or someone is *trying* to get him to enter the
trap.

Jim

On 12/17/2011 5:34 PM, wrote:
I don't know that an X-10 motion detector light is any better than any other but you can buy
a motion detector without the light and program it to trip a light. That
way you can put the motion
detector at ground level pointing across the driveway instead of
pointing down the driveway.
Also, maybe a silly question, but have you tried cleaning it? After a few years it might just be really
dirty.
I have 2 and have to chime in that they are not really that great. Mine
triggers on wind coming down the side of the mountain. I plan on moving
it to a different location to see if that might help. BTW, it also
triggers on critters, but that's ok as I want to know when a bear, that
usually stays away from house, comes into the area. I have already seen
one a few months ago. I still think the best solution might be an IR
beam across the driveway. Most critters would be under the beam.

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
-snip-

So is there a *really* good detector that has a wide field of view,
and will detect objects coming straight at it up to about 100 feet
away? [minimum of 50']

Thanks all for some informative stuff. Darn thing started working
again. [maybe it *was* just dirty? I didn't intentionally clean it,
but I took it off and tightened wire nuts all around-- everything
seemed tight-- but I must of hit something.]

So now I've got some time to put it off in hopes that the low end crap
gets 'good enough' before I feel the need to replace again.

Jim

On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:59:04 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
-snip-

So is there a *really* good detector that has a wide field of view,
and will detect objects coming straight at it up to about 100 feet
away? [minimum of 50']

Thanks all for some informative stuff. Darn thing started working
again. [maybe it *was* just dirty? I didn't intentionally clean it,
but I took it off and tightened wire nuts all around-- everything
seemed tight-- but I must of hit something.]

So now I've got some time to put it off in hopes that the low end crap
gets 'good enough' before I feel the need to replace again.

Jim
If you are looking at "low end" stuff grab it now - it will only get
worse as they figure out how to shave another .01 cents off the cost
of each one.

On Dec 17, 4:33*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
wrote





I use an X10 motion detector without any floods. *Then when it detects
and sends and x10 signal, the program another box turns on the house
floods on that side of the house, if it's nighttime and sounds a chime
in the house. *But, it will not detect a cold car or a car that is at
the ambient air temperature. *So, if a car is running a a pretty high
speed and then pops in front of the detector, it probably sees no
difference and ignores it. *However, if the car is really warmed up and
approaches slowly, allowing the hood, etc. to warm up, it detects as the
sensor sees a difference between the air temperature and the car.
Because I have a slow very steep road coming to my drive and then about
100' of drive, it usually detects. *Although, at Halloween, I actually
put one of these sensors next to the road to fire off a Halloween
animation. *It usually saw most cars, however, when I was testing with
my own car, cold out of the garage, it occasionally missed. *Another
problem is that when the outside temperature gets to the upper 90s, it
won't detect a person, again because there is little difference between
the body and the ambient. *The best way to reliably detect a vehicle
coming onto your driveway is either a pressure sensor or metal mass
detector, or a photo cell across the drive; the former probably won't
detect critters, the latter will if they are tall enough. *Sorry for
rambling on.
The only "really good" motion detector I've ever seen is a video
camera with night vision running a pixel change comparator program on
a computer, controlling the lights. You set the percentage change rate
sensitivity on the program, and if, say, 10% of the pixels change over
a 15 second period, it triggers. This allows you to fine tune the
response to either respond or not respond to something the size of a
squirrel, or a racoon, or whatever.

A barn door moving at 1 foot per minute might be able to sneak in
where a running squirrel would be nabbed, depending on how you set it.

X10 has both the cameras and the software, as well as the
controllers, to set up this kind of system.

Again, to be 100% effective, 2 sensors with crossed field of vision
would *work better by providing binaural vision

Thanks for the very good information. *I am going to be putting a "system"
on my shop as soon as it is finished. *I am going to splurge on this, as I
have YET to see a motion detector that either works right, or lasts very
long.

I keep seeing X10 come up, so take it that there are a lot of satisfied
users out there. *I just want to get a reliable system that will detect
human bodies, and not animals in the night. *I have seen one deer track on
my property in six years. *Mainly, I want an intruder alarm for inside a
perimeter, and automatic lights on when it senses something.

I have five metal halides that came off a large hotel in Las Vegas. *But
they are 110 stepped up to 220, and take about ten minutes to get bright.
Those will be on a timer for certain hours, and on a switch that I can
regulate. *Those puppies make it look like daytime.

Thanks to everyone who made contributions here on this thread. *The day
before this thread started, I was thinking of how to word a post about this,
but this has answered all my questions.

Except one. *Is X10 the way to go for the money, or is there better that
won't cost an arm and a leg?

Steve- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"I keep seeing X10 come up, so take it that there are a lot of
satisfied users out there"

....and there are a lot of unsatisfied users also.

Even the most experienced X-10 users will tell you that X-10 can be
quirky. I can attest to that.

I have 2 X-10 set-ups at my house and not only do they randomly
interact with each other, but neither of them works 100% correctly
100% of the time.

Things like GFCI receptacles, wall wart chargers, Edison circuits,
fluorescent fixtures, etc. can all impact the performance of the
systems.

I'm not slamming X-10 because I am aware that some folks are very
satisfied with the technology and claim to never have had any
problems. On the the other hand, when I do have problems with my set-
ups and bring them up in this and other forums, I get the internet
equivalent of a knowing nod and "suggestions" on how to fix my issues.

I've even been offered test equipment to see if I can track down the
root cause(s).

Bottom line (IMO) is that X-10 components are cheap enough that giving
it a try is probably worth it.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Dec 17, 4:33 pm, "Steve B" wrote:
wrote





I use an X10 motion detector without any floods. Then when it detects
and sends and x10 signal, the program another box turns on the house
floods on that side of the house, if it's nighttime and sounds a chime
in the house. But, it will not detect a cold car or a car that is at
the ambient air temperature. So, if a car is running a a pretty high
speed and then pops in front of the detector, it probably sees no
difference and ignores it. However, if the car is really warmed up and
approaches slowly, allowing the hood, etc. to warm up, it detects as the
sensor sees a difference between the air temperature and the car.
Because I have a slow very steep road coming to my drive and then about
100' of drive, it usually detects. Although, at Halloween, I actually
put one of these sensors next to the road to fire off a Halloween
animation. It usually saw most cars, however, when I was testing with
my own car, cold out of the garage, it occasionally missed. Another
problem is that when the outside temperature gets to the upper 90s, it
won't detect a person, again because there is little difference between
the body and the ambient. The best way to reliably detect a vehicle
coming onto your driveway is either a pressure sensor or metal mass
detector, or a photo cell across the drive; the former probably won't
detect critters, the latter will if they are tall enough. Sorry for
rambling on.
The only "really good" motion detector I've ever seen is a video
camera with night vision running a pixel change comparator program on
a computer, controlling the lights. You set the percentage change rate
sensitivity on the program, and if, say, 10% of the pixels change over
a 15 second period, it triggers. This allows you to fine tune the
response to either respond or not respond to something the size of a
squirrel, or a racoon, or whatever.

A barn door moving at 1 foot per minute might be able to sneak in
where a running squirrel would be nabbed, depending on how you set it.

X10 has both the cameras and the software, as well as the
controllers, to set up this kind of system.

Again, to be 100% effective, 2 sensors with crossed field of vision
would work better by providing binaural vision

Thanks for the very good information. I am going to be putting a "system"
on my shop as soon as it is finished. I am going to splurge on this, as I
have YET to see a motion detector that either works right, or lasts very
long.

I keep seeing X10 come up, so take it that there are a lot of satisfied
users out there. I just want to get a reliable system that will detect
human bodies, and not animals in the night. I have seen one deer track on
my property in six years. Mainly, I want an intruder alarm for inside a
perimeter, and automatic lights on when it senses something.

I have five metal halides that came off a large hotel in Las Vegas. But
they are 110 stepped up to 220, and take about ten minutes to get bright.
Those will be on a timer for certain hours, and on a switch that I can
regulate. Those puppies make it look like daytime.

Thanks to everyone who made contributions here on this thread. The day
before this thread started, I was thinking of how to word a post about
this,
but this has answered all my questions.

Except one. Is X10 the way to go for the money, or is there better that
won't cost an arm and a leg?

Steve- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"I keep seeing X10 come up, so take it that there are a lot of
satisfied users out there"

....and there are a lot of unsatisfied users also.

Even the most experienced X-10 users will tell you that X-10 can be
quirky. I can attest to that.

I have 2 X-10 set-ups at my house and not only do they randomly
interact with each other, but neither of them works 100% correctly
100% of the time.

Things like GFCI receptacles, wall wart chargers, Edison circuits,
fluorescent fixtures, etc. can all impact the performance of the
systems.

I'm not slamming X-10 because I am aware that some folks are very
satisfied with the technology and claim to never have had any
problems. On the the other hand, when I do have problems with my set-
ups and bring them up in this and other forums, I get the internet
equivalent of a knowing nod and "suggestions" on how to fix my issues.

I've even been offered test equipment to see if I can track down the
root cause(s).

Bottom line (IMO) is that X-10 components are cheap enough that giving
it a try is probably worth it.

reply: Well, I guess I will have to just improvise, then. Maybe instead of
looking for "systems", I should break it down into "zones", as systems seem
to have redundancy and overlapping functions. Translates: quirky. Too bad
I don't live close to the base any more, and can't get any more Claymores.
Or Bouncing Bettys.

Steve

On Dec 19, 4:56*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Dec 17, 4:33 pm, "Steve B" wrote:





wrote

I use an X10 motion detector without any floods. Then when it detects
and sends and x10 signal, the program another box turns on the house
floods on that side of the house, if it's nighttime and sounds a chime
in the house. But, it will not detect a cold car or a car that is at
the ambient air temperature. So, if a car is running a a pretty high
speed and then pops in front of the detector, it probably sees no
difference and ignores it. However, if the car is really warmed up and
approaches slowly, allowing the hood, etc. to warm up, it detects as the
sensor sees a difference between the air temperature and the car.
Because I have a slow very steep road coming to my drive and then about
100' of drive, it usually detects. Although, at Halloween, I actually
put one of these sensors next to the road to fire off a Halloween
animation. It usually saw most cars, however, when I was testing with
my own car, cold out of the garage, it occasionally missed. Another
problem is that when the outside temperature gets to the upper 90s, it
won't detect a person, again because there is little difference between
the body and the ambient. The best way to reliably detect a vehicle
coming onto your driveway is either a pressure sensor or metal mass
detector, or a photo cell across the drive; the former probably won't
detect critters, the latter will if they are tall enough. Sorry for
rambling on.
The only "really good" motion detector I've ever seen is a video
camera with night vision running a pixel change comparator program on
a computer, controlling the lights. You set the percentage change rate
sensitivity on the program, and if, say, 10% of the pixels change over
a 15 second period, it triggers. This allows you to fine tune the
response to either respond or not respond to something the size of a
squirrel, or a racoon, or whatever.

A barn door moving at 1 foot per minute might be able to sneak in
where a running squirrel would be nabbed, depending on how you set it..

X10 has both the cameras and the software, as well as the
controllers, to set up this kind of system.

Again, to be 100% effective, 2 sensors with crossed field of vision
would work better by providing binaural vision

Thanks for the very good information. I am going to be putting a "system"
on my shop as soon as it is finished. I am going to splurge on this, as I
have YET to see a motion detector that either works right, or lasts very
long.

I keep seeing X10 come up, so take it that there are a lot of satisfied
users out there. I just want to get a reliable system that will detect
human bodies, and not animals in the night. I have seen one deer track on
my property in six years. Mainly, I want an intruder alarm for inside a
perimeter, and automatic lights on when it senses something.

I have five metal halides that came off a large hotel in Las Vegas. But
they are 110 stepped up to 220, and take about ten minutes to get bright.

On Dec 19, 4:56*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On Dec 17, 4:33 pm, "Steve B" wrote:





wrote

I use an X10 motion detector without any floods. Then when it detects
and sends and x10 signal, the program another box turns on the house
floods on that side of the house, if it's nighttime and sounds a chime
in the house. But, it will not detect a cold car or a car that is at
the ambient air temperature. So, if a car is running a a pretty high
speed and then pops in front of the detector, it probably sees no
difference and ignores it. However, if the car is really warmed up and
approaches slowly, allowing the hood, etc. to warm up, it detects as the
sensor sees a difference between the air temperature and the car.
Because I have a slow very steep road coming to my drive and then about
100' of drive, it usually detects. Although, at Halloween, I actually
put one of these sensors next to the road to fire off a Halloween
animation. It usually saw most cars, however, when I was testing with
my own car, cold out of the garage, it occasionally missed. Another
problem is that when the outside temperature gets to the upper 90s, it
won't detect a person, again because there is little difference between
the body and the ambient. The best way to reliably detect a vehicle
coming onto your driveway is either a pressure sensor or metal mass
detector, or a photo cell across the drive; the former probably won't
detect critters, the latter will if they are tall enough. Sorry for
rambling on.
The only "really good" motion detector I've ever seen is a video
camera with night vision running a pixel change comparator program on
a computer, controlling the lights. You set the percentage change rate
sensitivity on the program, and if, say, 10% of the pixels change over
a 15 second period, it triggers. This allows you to fine tune the
response to either respond or not respond to something the size of a
squirrel, or a racoon, or whatever.

A barn door moving at 1 foot per minute might be able to sneak in
where a running squirrel would be nabbed, depending on how you set it..

X10 has both the cameras and the software, as well as the
controllers, to set up this kind of system.

Again, to be 100% effective, 2 sensors with crossed field of vision
would work better by providing binaural vision

Thanks for the very good information. I am going to be putting a "system"
on my shop as soon as it is finished. I am going to splurge on this, as I
have YET to see a motion detector that either works right, or lasts very
long.

I keep seeing X10 come up, so take it that there are a lot of satisfied
users out there. I just want to get a reliable system that will detect
human bodies, and not animals in the night. I have seen one deer track on
my property in six years. Mainly, I want an intruder alarm for inside a
perimeter, and automatic lights on when it senses something.

I have five metal halides that came off a large hotel in Las Vegas. But
they are 110 stepped up to 220, and take about ten minutes to get bright.