Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.

On 12/16/2011 13:34, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

Intermatic still makes timers that don't require a neutral. Without a
neutral the timer relies either on an internal battery or a trickle
current through the lamp filament to operate the timer. In the latter
case the timer works only with incandescent lamps. Thanks to our
legislative nannies such timers will not work in many applications,
hence their scarcity in the marketplace.
--

On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU

On 12/16/2011 7:47 PM, RBM wrote:
On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU


What powers the motor in it with no neutral available?

On 12/16/2011 9:46 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/16/2011 7:47 PM, RBM wrote:
On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU



What powers the motor in it with no neutral available?

It doesn't have a motor in it, but it's powered by allowing a trickle of
current through the circuit when it's in the off position

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 22:14:43 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 12/16/2011 9:46 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/16/2011 7:47 PM, RBM wrote:
On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU



What powers the motor in it with no neutral available?

It doesn't have a motor in it, but it's powered by allowing a trickle of
current through the circuit when it's in the off position
There are LOTS of 24 hour timer units available that have a little
button battery that operates the timer for a year or two per battery
change that will work anywhere a toggle or rocker switch will work -
including on 2 wire switched return circuits

On 12/16/2011 10:29 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 22:14:43 -0500, wrote:

On 12/16/2011 9:46 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/16/2011 7:47 PM, RBM wrote:
On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU



What powers the motor in it with no neutral available?

It doesn't have a motor in it, but it's powered by allowing a trickle of
current through the circuit when it's in the off position
There are LOTS of 24 hour timer units available that have a little
button battery that operates the timer for a year or two per battery
change that will work anywhere a toggle or rocker switch will work -
including on 2 wire switched return circuits

"Mechanical" timers running a couple years on a battery?

"micky" wrote in message
...
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Ace Hardware # 3290160 60 minute spring wound timer. I use for a heat lamp
in bathroom. WW

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:47:35 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU

Thanks RBM (and thanks all). This one will be just fine. It's very
much like the one I had first.

Plus this pointed me to www.1000bubls.com which includes pdf manuals
for this one, and a couple other Intermatic that I looked at.


I'm confused by the ST01.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/Inter-ST01C-Operating.pdf
It says:

Resistive (heater) 15 Amp, 120-277 VAC
Tungsten (incandescent) 15 Amp @ 120 VAC, 6 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Ballast (fluorescent) 8 Amp @ 120 VAC, 4 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Motors 1 H.P. @ 120 VAC, 2 H.P. @ 240 VAC
DC Loads 4 Amp @ 12 VDC, 2 Amp @ 28 VDC

Does "Ballast (fluorescent)" include all fluroescent? Especiallly
CFLs?

It uses a battery like you said, so maybe that means it works in
anything. From the installation pdf, you can see that it too only
uses 2 wires (3 for 3-way.)

micky wrote:



Plus this pointed me to www.1000bubls.com which includes pdf manuals
for this one, and a couple other Intermatic that I looked at.


I'm confused by the ST01.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/Inter-ST01C-Operating.pdf
It says:

Resistive (heater) 15 Amp, 120-277 VAC
Tungsten (incandescent) 15 Amp @ 120 VAC, 6 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Ballast (fluorescent) 8 Amp @ 120 VAC, 4 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Motors 1 H.P. @ 120 VAC, 2 H.P. @ 240 VAC
DC Loads 4 Amp @ 12 VDC, 2 Amp @ 28 VDC

Does "Ballast (fluorescent)" include all fluroescent? Especiallly
CFLs?

I have a couple of ST01C's and they work fine with CFL's. They use a battery to
keep time and they have multiple on-off switching ability. They can be
programmed to switch time for daylight savings, and they can also be programmed
to automatically compensate for varying daylight lengths (longer in
summer--shorter in winter). A great timer, however they are quite complex to
program. You can find them for a reasonable price on Ebay.
================================================== ======
Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail.

I forgot to mention---The ST01C is white and the ST01AC is almond in color.
================================================== ======
Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail.

On 12/16/2011 11:21 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/16/2011 10:29 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 22:14:43 -0500, wrote:

On 12/16/2011 9:46 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/16/2011 7:47 PM, RBM wrote:
On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot
which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU




What powers the motor in it with no neutral available?

It doesn't have a motor in it, but it's powered by allowing a trickle of
current through the circuit when it's in the off position
There are LOTS of 24 hour timer units available that have a little
button battery that operates the timer for a year or two per battery
change that will work anywhere a toggle or rocker switch will work -
including on 2 wire switched return circuits

"Mechanical" timers running a couple years on a battery?

I think that their reference to "mechanical" is how you operate the
thing. You have to turn the dial and push it in to set it. Their digital
models have push buttons and a screen. The timing mechanism is
electronic, not mechanical

On 12/17/2011 7:07 AM, RBM wrote:
On 12/16/2011 11:21 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/16/2011 10:29 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 22:14:43 -0500, wrote:

On 12/16/2011 9:46 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/16/2011 7:47 PM, RBM wrote:
On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot
which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the
switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween
the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU





What powers the motor in it with no neutral available?

It doesn't have a motor in it, but it's powered by allowing a
trickle of
current through the circuit when it's in the off position
There are LOTS of 24 hour timer units available that have a little
button battery that operates the timer for a year or two per battery
change that will work anywhere a toggle or rocker switch will work -
including on 2 wire switched return circuits

"Mechanical" timers running a couple years on a battery?

I think that their reference to "mechanical" is how you operate the
thing. You have to turn the dial and push it in to set it. Their digital
models have push buttons and a screen. The timing mechanism is
electronic, not mechanical


I checked the instructions and you are right. Only two wires and a
40watt incandescent minimum load. By the looks of it and the
description, it sure looks motorized.

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 23:21:44 -0500, Tony Miklos
wrote:

On 12/16/2011 10:29 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 22:14:43 -0500, wrote:

On 12/16/2011 9:46 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/16/2011 7:47 PM, RBM wrote:
On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU



What powers the motor in it with no neutral available?

It doesn't have a motor in it, but it's powered by allowing a trickle of
current through the circuit when it's in the off position
There are LOTS of 24 hour timer units available that have a little
button battery that operates the timer for a year or two per battery
change that will work anywhere a toggle or rocker switch will work -
including on 2 wire switched return circuits

"Mechanical" timers running a couple years on a battery?
24 hour "mechanical" timers doesn't make any sense either.

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 21:48:54 -0700, "WW"
wrote:


"micky" wrote in message
.. .
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Ace Hardware # 3290160 60 minute spring wound timer. I use for a heat lamp
in bathroom. WW

The OP did not say what he was using the timer for - only said it was
a "24 hour" timer and a "mechanical" timer.

The two don't really go together. At least from what I understand.

If he wants a 24 hour timer to turn lights on and off, for instance,
the electronic timer units with a battery do the job quite nicely. The
one on my daughter's entrance light ran over 2 years on a pair of
button batteries.

If he wants a timer to turn something off after a given amount of time
there are electronic ones that need 3 wires, and spring wound ones
(getting harder to find good ones) - and I HAVE seen electric "count
down timers" that use a battery as well. Been a while so I cannot
remember manufacturer or source (likely Home Despot)

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 01:59:04 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:47:35 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU

Thanks RBM (and thanks all). This one will be just fine. It's very
much like the one I had first.

Plus this pointed me to www.1000bubls.com which includes pdf manuals
for this one, and a couple other Intermatic that I looked at.


I'm confused by the ST01.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/Inter-ST01C-Operating.pdf
It says:

Resistive (heater) 15 Amp, 120-277 VAC
Tungsten (incandescent) 15 Amp @ 120 VAC, 6 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Ballast (fluorescent) 8 Amp @ 120 VAC, 4 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Motors 1 H.P. @ 120 VAC, 2 H.P. @ 240 VAC
DC Loads 4 Amp @ 12 VDC, 2 Amp @ 28 VDC

Does "Ballast (fluorescent)" include all fluroescent? Especiallly
CFLs?

It uses a battery like you said, so maybe that means it works in
anything. From the installation pdf, you can see that it too only
uses 2 wires (3 for 3-way.)
Ballast includes all flourescent and vapour lamps with a ballast,
including CFL.

They are pretty much the "swiss army knife" of timers - work on ac or
dc from pretty well o to 277 volts AC and 0 to 28 volts (and likely
higher at very low current) dc. (likely 48 volts and 1 amp)

On Dec 17, 5:05*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 01:59:04 -0500, micky
wrote:





On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:47:35 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. * We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. * *There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. * * The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also *black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I *have one piece of 12-2 Romex. *Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and *I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.

Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...GU1823493?smid....

Thanks RBM (and thanks all). *This one will be just fine. It's very
much like the one I had first.

Plus this pointed me to *www.1000bubls.comwhich includes pdf manuals
for this one, and a couple other Intermatic that I looked at.

I'm confused by the ST01.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/Inter-ST01C-Operating.pdf
It says:

Resistive (heater) 15 Amp, 120-277 VAC
Tungsten (incandescent) 15 Amp @ 120 VAC, 6 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Ballast (fluorescent) 8 Amp @ 120 VAC, 4 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Motors 1 H.P. @ 120 VAC, 2 H.P. @ 240 VAC
DC Loads 4 Amp @ 12 VDC, 2 Amp @ 28 VDC

Does "Ballast (fluorescent)" *include all fluroescent? *Especiallly
CFLs?

It uses a battery like you said, so maybe that means it works in
anything. * From the installation pdf, you can see that it too only
uses 2 wires (3 for 3-way.)

* Ballast includes all flourescent and vapour lamps with a ballast,
including CFL.

*They are pretty much the "swiss army knife" of timers - work on ac or
dc from pretty well o to 277 volts AC and 0 to 28 volts (and likely
higher at very low current) dc. (likely 48 volts and 1 amp)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

CFLs have no ballast. Ballasted referrs to the non electronic
fuoresecent with an inductor/ballast/choke inside and usually with a
starter switch, ie the "old fashoined" ones.
Switches have to be downrated for this use.

On 12/17/2011 11:35 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 23:21:44 -0500, Tony Miklos
wrote:

On 12/16/2011 10:29 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 22:14:43 -0500, wrote:

On 12/16/2011 9:46 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/16/2011 7:47 PM, RBM wrote:
On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU



What powers the motor in it with no neutral available?

It doesn't have a motor in it, but it's powered by allowing a trickle of
current through the circuit when it's in the off position
There are LOTS of 24 hour timer units available that have a little
button battery that operates the timer for a year or two per battery
change that will work anywhere a toggle or rocker switch will work -
including on 2 wire switched return circuits

"Mechanical" timers running a couple years on a battery?
24 hour "mechanical" timers doesn't make any sense either.

I disagree. Having installed many dozens of in wall electronic, digital,
and electromechanical time clocks, despite requiring a neutral, the
electromechanical 24 hr clocks like the Tork 701A are practically
indestructible, where any minor voltage spike takes out the electronic
models

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 11:35:35 -0500, wrote:


What powers the motor in it with no neutral available?

It doesn't have a motor in it, but it's powered by allowing a trickle of
current through the circuit when it's in the off position
There are LOTS of 24 hour timer units available that have a little
button battery that operates the timer for a year or two per battery
change that will work anywhere a toggle or rocker switch will work -
including on 2 wire switched return circuits

"Mechanical" timers running a couple years on a battery?
24 hour "mechanical" timers doesn't make any sense either.

No, they exist. I think there are 7-day timers too. In the grey
metal box about the size of a thick bible, with a silver-grey lever
coming out the side for manual on/oiff. Usually hard-wired

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 10:53:57 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

On Dec 17, 5:05*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 01:59:04 -0500, micky
wrote:





On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:47:35 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. * We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. * *There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. * * The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also *black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I *have one piece of 12-2 Romex. *Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and *I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.

Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...GU1823493?smid...

Thanks RBM (and thanks all). *This one will be just fine. It's very
much like the one I had first.

Plus this pointed me to *www.1000bubls.comwhich includes pdf manuals
for this one, and a couple other Intermatic that I looked at.

I'm confused by the ST01.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/Inter-ST01C-Operating.pdf
It says:

Resistive (heater) 15 Amp, 120-277 VAC
Tungsten (incandescent) 15 Amp @ 120 VAC, 6 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Ballast (fluorescent) 8 Amp @ 120 VAC, 4 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Motors 1 H.P. @ 120 VAC, 2 H.P. @ 240 VAC
DC Loads 4 Amp @ 12 VDC, 2 Amp @ 28 VDC

Does "Ballast (fluorescent)" *include all fluroescent? *Especiallly
CFLs?

It uses a battery like you said, so maybe that means it works in
anything. * From the installation pdf, you can see that it too only
uses 2 wires (3 for 3-way.)

* Ballast includes all flourescent and vapour lamps with a ballast,
including CFL.

*They are pretty much the "swiss army knife" of timers - work on ac or
dc from pretty well o to 277 volts AC and 0 to 28 volts (and likely
higher at very low current) dc. (likely 48 volts and 1 amp)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

CFLs have no ballast. Ballasted referrs to the non electronic
fuoresecent with an inductor/ballast/choke inside and usually with a
starter switch, ie the "old fashoined" ones.
Switches have to be downrated for this use.

Utter nonsense.

OTOH, if you only talked about things you knew something about you'd be a
mute.

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 12:05:41 -0500, wrote:

micky wrote:

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:47:35 -0500, RBM wrote:

micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU

Thanks RBM (and thanks all). This one will be just fine. It's very
much like the one I had first.

Plus this pointed me to www.1000bubls.com which includes pdf manuals
for this one, and a couple other Intermatic that I looked at.


I'm confused by the ST01.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/Inter-ST01C-Operating.pdf
It says:

Resistive (heater) 15 Amp, 120-277 VAC
Tungsten (incandescent) 15 Amp @ 120 VAC, 6 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Ballast (fluorescent) 8 Amp @ 120 VAC, 4 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Motors 1 H.P. @ 120 VAC, 2 H.P. @ 240 VAC
DC Loads 4 Amp @ 12 VDC, 2 Amp @ 28 VDC

Does "Ballast (fluorescent)" include all fluroescent? Especiallly
CFLs?

It uses a battery like you said, so maybe that means it works in
anything. From the installation pdf, you can see that it too only
uses 2 wires (3 for 3-way.)
Ballast includes all flourescent and vapour lamps with a ballast,
including CFL.

Thanks. Maybe this won't confuse me anymore.

They are pretty much the "swiss army knife" of timers - work on ac or
dc from pretty well o to 277 volts AC and 0 to 28 volts (and likely
higher at very low current) dc. (likely 48 volts and 1 amp)

Very good to know.


BTW, these are for the ceiling lights, in one case a kitchen and the
other case a dining room. Partly to give the houses a lived-in look
when no one is home.

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 10:57:22 GMT, (Ron in
NY) wrote:

micky wrote:



Plus this pointed me to www.1000bubls.com which includes pdf manuals
for this one, and a couple other Intermatic that I looked at.


I'm confused by the ST01.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/Inter-ST01C-Operating.pdf
It says:

Resistive (heater) 15 Amp, 120-277 VAC
Tungsten (incandescent) 15 Amp @ 120 VAC, 6 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Ballast (fluorescent) 8 Amp @ 120 VAC, 4 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Motors 1 H.P. @ 120 VAC, 2 H.P. @ 240 VAC
DC Loads 4 Amp @ 12 VDC, 2 Amp @ 28 VDC

Does "Ballast (fluorescent)" include all fluroescent? Especiallly
CFLs?

I have a couple of ST01C's and they work fine with CFL's. They use a battery to
keep time and they have multiple on-off switching ability. They can be
programmed to switch time for daylight savings, and they can also be programmed
to automatically compensate for varying daylight lengths (longer in
summer--shorter in winter). A great timer,

It *sounds* great!! Thanks.

however they are quite complex to
program.

I can handle it, he said proudly, and my friend's landlady is pretty
smart, but sometimes gets stubborn and plays dumb. The two of them
can work it out.

You can find them for a reasonable price on Ebay.

Thanks again, I often forget to look on ebay.

================================================= =======
Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail.

P&M

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 01:59:04 -0500, micky
wrote:



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU

Thanks RBM (and thanks all). This one will be just fine. It's very
much like the one I had first.

Plus this pointed me to www.1000bubls.com which includes pdf manuals
for this one, and a couple other Intermatic that I looked at.


I'm confused by the ST01.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/Inter-ST01C-Operating.pdf
It says:

Resistive (heater) 15 Amp, 120-277 VAC
Tungsten (incandescent) 15 Amp @ 120 VAC, 6 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Ballast (fluorescent) 8 Amp @ 120 VAC, 4 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Motors 1 H.P. @ 120 VAC, 2 H.P. @ 240 VAC
DC Loads 4 Amp @ 12 VDC, 2 Amp @ 28 VDC

Does "Ballast (fluorescent)" include all fluroescent? Especiallly
CFLs?

Replying to myself (so as not to get into a fight!) I found at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_ballast the fourth and last
picture "Electronic ballast of a compact fluorescent lamp" and it
shows a CFL that's been opened.

Plus
http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/4-...cent-ballasts/
and
http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/2-...cent-ballasts/
which seem to be external ballasts, but still are under the heading
"Compact Fluorescent Ballasts (CFL)" They really seem more like
"compact (fluorescent-ballasts). IOW, I don't know what they are but
Ron's first-hand report and the wikip link are enough for me.




It uses a battery like you said, so maybe that means it works in
anything. From the installation pdf, you can see that it too only
uses 2 wires (3 for 3-way.)

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 10:53:57 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Dec 17, 5:05Â*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 01:59:04 -0500, micky
wrote:





On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:47:35 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. Â* We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. Â* Â*There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. Â* Â* The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also Â*black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I Â*have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Â*Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and Â*I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.

Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...GU1823493?smid...

Thanks RBM (and thanks all). Â*This one will be just fine. It's very
much like the one I had first.

Plus this pointed me to Â*www.1000bubls.comwhich includes pdf manuals
for this one, and a couple other Intermatic that I looked at.

I'm confused by the ST01.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/Inter-ST01C-Operating.pdf
It says:

Resistive (heater) 15 Amp, 120-277 VAC
Tungsten (incandescent) 15 Amp @ 120 VAC, 6 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Ballast (fluorescent) 8 Amp @ 120 VAC, 4 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Motors 1 H.P. @ 120 VAC, 2 H.P. @ 240 VAC
DC Loads 4 Amp @ 12 VDC, 2 Amp @ 28 VDC

Does "Ballast (fluorescent)" Â*include all fluroescent? Â*Especiallly
CFLs?

It uses a battery like you said, so maybe that means it works in
anything. Â* From the installation pdf, you can see that it too only
uses 2 wires (3 for 3-way.)

Â* Ballast includes all flourescent and vapour lamps with a ballast,
including CFL.

Â*They are pretty much the "swiss army knife" of timers - work on ac or
dc from pretty well o to 277 volts AC and 0 to 28 volts (and likely
higher at very low current) dc. (likely 48 volts and 1 amp)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

CFLs have no ballast. Ballasted referrs to the non electronic
fuoresecent with an inductor/ballast/choke inside and usually with a
starter switch, ie the "old fashoined" ones.
Switches have to be downrated for this use.
"electronic ballasts" are generally also subject to switch de-rating -
and CFLs have an "electronic ballast" .The derating factor may well be
less on electronics, but the "be safe" method is to treat all
flourescents as ballasted lamps when calculating switching loads.

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 15:17:41 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 12/17/2011 11:35 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 23:21:44 -0500, Tony Miklos
wrote:

On 12/16/2011 10:29 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 22:14:43 -0500, wrote:

On 12/16/2011 9:46 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/16/2011 7:47 PM, RBM wrote:
On 12/16/2011 4:34 PM, micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU



What powers the motor in it with no neutral available?

It doesn't have a motor in it, but it's powered by allowing a trickle of
current through the circuit when it's in the off position
There are LOTS of 24 hour timer units available that have a little
button battery that operates the timer for a year or two per battery
change that will work anywhere a toggle or rocker switch will work -
including on 2 wire switched return circuits

"Mechanical" timers running a couple years on a battery?
24 hour "mechanical" timers doesn't make any sense either.

I disagree. Having installed many dozens of in wall electronic, digital,
and electromechanical time clocks, despite requiring a neutral, the
electromechanical 24 hr clocks like the Tork 701A are practically
indestructible, where any minor voltage spike takes out the electronic
models


I guess it depends on the definitions -of Mechanical, in particular.
Mechanical TIMER or mechanical SWITCH.

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 17:08:35 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 11:35:35 -0500, wrote:


What powers the motor in it with no neutral available?

It doesn't have a motor in it, but it's powered by allowing a trickle of
current through the circuit when it's in the off position
There are LOTS of 24 hour timer units available that have a little
button battery that operates the timer for a year or two per battery
change that will work anywhere a toggle or rocker switch will work -
including on 2 wire switched return circuits

"Mechanical" timers running a couple years on a battery?
24 hour "mechanical" timers doesn't make any sense either.

No, they exist. I think there are 7-day timers too. In the grey
metal box about the size of a thick bible, with a silver-grey lever
coming out the side for manual on/oiff. Usually hard-wired
And almost exclusively requiring a minimum of 3 wires - one of which
is a neutral.

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 17:43:57 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 12:05:41 -0500, wrote:

micky wrote:

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:47:35 -0500, RBM wrote:

micky wrote:
Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?

These will NOT use fluroescent lights.

Not counting the ground wire from here on:
The new ones have white, black, and red wires. The white goes to
the neutral which is usually also white, the black to the hot which is
usuallly also black, and the red goes to the load, the light bulb.

But we don't have a neutral wire in the boxes that hold the switch. I
havent' seen his but I have one piece of 12-2 Romex. Plainly, the
neutral and hot wires went to the ceiling, but only the hot and its
return went to the switch.

The original toggle swich just made or broke the connecton beween the
two wires. The first and second timers I had did the same thing.
Those timersr broke years ago and I know what they looked like, but
not the brand, and I haven't found them on the web.

I could maybe put in a neutral if I have to, but the house he rents
iisnt't suitable for that.

Thanks.



Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q9YUGU/...N=B000Q 9YUGU

Thanks RBM (and thanks all). This one will be just fine. It's very
much like the one I had first.

Plus this pointed me to www.1000bubls.com which includes pdf manuals
for this one, and a couple other Intermatic that I looked at.


I'm confused by the ST01.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/Inter-ST01C-Operating.pdf
It says:

Resistive (heater) 15 Amp, 120-277 VAC
Tungsten (incandescent) 15 Amp @ 120 VAC, 6 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Ballast (fluorescent) 8 Amp @ 120 VAC, 4 Amp @ 208-277 VAC
Motors 1 H.P. @ 120 VAC, 2 H.P. @ 240 VAC
DC Loads 4 Amp @ 12 VDC, 2 Amp @ 28 VDC

Does "Ballast (fluorescent)" include all fluroescent? Especiallly
CFLs?

It uses a battery like you said, so maybe that means it works in
anything. From the installation pdf, you can see that it too only
uses 2 wires (3 for 3-way.)
Ballast includes all flourescent and vapour lamps with a ballast,
including CFL.

Thanks. Maybe this won't confuse me anymore.

They are pretty much the "swiss army knife" of timers - work on ac or
dc from pretty well o to 277 volts AC and 0 to 28 volts (and likely
higher at very low current) dc. (likely 48 volts and 1 amp)

Very good to know.


BTW, these are for the ceiling lights, in one case a kitchen and the
other case a dining room. Partly to give the houses a lived-in look
when no one is home.
Then you have found what you are looking for.
I believe there is also a model with a "randomizer" that changes the
on-off times by a few minutes to half an hour each cycle.

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:34:54 -0500, micky
wrote:

Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?


Thanks for all the help on finding a swtich.

Now my friend says his landlady doesn't want to spend 30 dollars for
another switch, when she already bought one ( a 3-wire switch that
needs a neutrral to power the ditgital timer, but the neutral is not
at the swtich, only 2 wires and a ground are..)

My friend tells me, We can connect the "neuttral" wire to the grounded
metal box that the swtich is in.

And I'm not sure how to convince him he's wrong. He says connecting
to the ground is no worse than connecting it to the neutral, that it's
just a tiny amount of current, that if the ground ever fails the timer
will stop running, and if the switch ever shorts, ti will blow the
fuse, just as if it were connected to the neutral.

And finally that the ground and neutral are connected together at the
fuse box anyhow .

I haven't convinced him he's wrong, and in fact I fear he's starting
to convince me he's right.

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 09:18:49 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:34:54 -0500, micky
wrote:

Both my friend and I have the same problem, a wall switch box with
only two wires and a ground entering the switch box. We both had
24-hour timers that worked fine; we both bought replacements to find
that they need 3 wires, they need the neutral. There were no
insturctions on the outside of the packaging.

Do they still sell timers that need only two wires?


Thanks for all the help on finding a swtich.

Now my friend says his landlady doesn't want to spend 30 dollars for
another switch, when she already bought one ( a 3-wire switch that
needs a neutrral to power the ditgital timer, but the neutral is not
at the swtich, only 2 wires and a ground are..)

My friend tells me, We can connect the "neuttral" wire to the grounded
metal box that the swtich is in.

And I'm not sure how to convince him he's wrong. He says connecting
to the ground is no worse than connecting it to the neutral, that it's
just a tiny amount of current, that if the ground ever fails the timer
will stop running, and if the switch ever shorts, ti will blow the
fuse, just as if it were connected to the neutral.

And finally that the ground and neutral are connected together at the
fuse box anyhow .

I haven't convinced him he's wrong, and in fact I fear he's starting
to convince me he's right.
He's right - it WILL work. But it is just plain WRONG to do it.