I'm getting ready to lay some blocks. Probably a lot of them, and quite a
few mixers full of cement. Some low decorative walls, walkways, pavers,
bricks, etc.

For block laying, should I buy a quantity of sand, lime, Portland, etc.? Or
should I just go with the premixed bags at the borg? There may be a slight
storage problem of unused materials from batch to batch.

Other questions:

Is premixed concrete with aggregate best for first coursing? How about cell
filling for grouting final wall?

What should I use for a stucco covering on it? Is that the same mortar mix,
or a special stucco mix?

What outdoor temps should block be laid at? And will it matter if the night
time temperature is below freezing? Down to about 20 deg. F.

I don't think there will be many complicated things about doing the type,
quality, or amount of block work I want to do. But suggestions are
welcomed.

Steve

"Home Guy" wrote in message ...
Steve B wrote:

For block laying, should I buy a quantity of sand, lime, Portland,
etc.? Or should I just go with the premixed bags at the borg?

I don't know why you think you'd need to buy lime separately.
Regardless if you're looking for cement or mortar-mix, it all comes in
one bag. Just add water, sand (and stone if you want concrete).

I don't know why I think what I think, either. It befuddles me sometimes.
So, I'm just asking what I need and trying to describe it so that more
knowledgeable people can help me out.


I'm not sure if you want to make mortar (for bricks/blocks) or concrete
- or both. I've never had the need to make mortar - if I did I'd just
as soon use the same portland cement I use to make concrete but just not
add any stone to the mix. Or I might do a little research to see if or
why real "mortar mix" is better than ordinary portland (type II) cement.

As I tried to convey in the post, I will be doing some block, some walkways,
and other work. I will use bagged concrete for all concrete work, as well
as the footer.


Other questions:

Is premixed concrete with aggregate best for first coursing?

Are these regular construction blocks - concrete masonary units? 8" x
8" x 16" ?

Yes, except where not. (Half pieces for ends, etc.)


I wouldn't think that you would want aggregate (stone) in your mortar
mix for application between blocks. Now, I don't know if you plan to
fill the space *inside* the blocks with concrete - if so then yes, we're
essentially talking now about concrete and not mortar.

Now you ah getting, Grasshoppah! Mortar for the joints, concrete for
grouting the cells solid.


How about cell filling for grouting final wall?

As mentioned before, want to fill with concrete, slightly less $$, I think.


Cell filling and grouting is two different things. I'm sure there are
books or on-line guides how to make a CMU block wall. I don't think
you're going to put aggregate in the grouting (mortar) mix. That would
just turn it into concrete. (to me, mortar or grouting is just cement
and sand. Concrete is cement, sand and stone.)

For where I live, and the exposure, I want solid concrete fill.


Lafarge makes something called "BlockSet" for this.

http://www.lafargenorthamerica.com/P...%20PBPOZZE.pdf

What should I use for a stucco covering on it?
Is that the same mortar mix, or a special stucco mix?

I think what you want is called parging mix.

What outdoor temps should block be laid at?

I would never mix or place concrete / mortar below 40f, but that's just
me. The pro's that do this have blankets and heaters or otherwise make
sure the temperature of their projects don't fall below freezing (and
ideally don't fall below 35F).

WONDERFUL. SWMBO will not be pleased, but I now have a reason to put it off
until spring when she can help, and I can spend the winter finishing my
shop. Uninterrupted. TY, TY, TY!


Curing concrete / mortar when the ambient temp is within a few degrees
of freezing is just asking for trouble. It's critical to the hydration
process that the water component in the concrete / mortar not freeze
before it completes. This is less critical for mass concrete (ie -
driveway or some other massive amount of concrete) because it gives off
it's own heat of hydration. You won't get as much heat from grouting /
mortar application.

And will it matter if the night time temperature is below
freezing? Down to about 20 deg. F.

Totally nuts. Way too cold.

I don't think there will be many complicated things about doing
the type, quality, or amount of block work I want to do. But
suggestions are welcomed.

If you're going to mix your mortar / concrete and set your blocks when
the expected temps will go below freezing, then there's no point giving
you any other advice - the mortar will probably crumble and be very weak
after it sets.

I used to be a form setter. I hated it. But at least I learned that much.


The only other advice I'd give is to use clean, dry sand, and put it
through a filter to remove organic junk and small stones. Washed "brick
sand" is what you want. Dry and filtered.

Thanks for your help. I can get mustered this winter, and get it done this
spring. I want to set some forms for stairs, etc, and this will be nice to
just get it all ready to pour a little at a time. Maybe even call in the
big truck and have him make a big pour at the shop while we're spending
money.

Steve

Steve B wrote:

Thanks for your help. I can get mustered this winter, and get it
done this spring.

See these for more info:

http://howto.millardlumber.com/blocks/concreteblock.htm

http://faculty.delhi.edu/hultendc/A2...cture-Web.html

http://www.wbdg.org/design/env_wall_masonry.php

I'm not sure what is usually done regarding filling in the cells. I
wouldn't think that it's common to fill in all the cells of all the
blocks. Some of these diagrams show rebar placed from top to bottom and
filled in with concrete - that's probably what I'd do.

I think a lot depends on if your wall is subject to lateral loading
(like a free-standing wall) with no right-angle bends in it, or if this
is soil retaining wall.

"Home Guy" wrote

I'm not sure what is usually done regarding filling in the cells. I
wouldn't think that it's common to fill in all the cells of all the
blocks. Some of these diagrams show rebar placed from top to bottom and
filled in with concrete - that's probably what I'd do.

I think a lot depends on if your wall is subject to lateral loading
(like a free-standing wall) with no right-angle bends in it, or if this
is soil retaining wall.

What I have seen done a lot on 6' high walls is spacing rebar about 4'
apart. Screens are put into the proper places within the mortar so that
grout does not flow out, and then the isolated vertical row of bricks is
poured so that there is a solid vertical with rebar every four feet. The
top course may be screened as well to seal the top course.

My wall will take a lot of freeze/thaw cycles, and we have blowing sand that
may keep the base wet all winter from the rain and snow. Therefore, I think
I'll just make it double strong with rebar and concrete so that I don't have
any big cracks. Also, it will be setting on blowsand, and tending to
settle, so horizontal rebar, even for a three to six course high decorative
pony wall. It's a whole lot easier than trying to straighten or jack up a
sagging wall.

Steve

On Dec 5, 11:24*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
I'm getting ready to lay some blocks. *Probably a lot of them, and quite a
few mixers full of cement. *Some low decorative walls, walkways, pavers,
bricks, etc.

For block laying, should I buy a quantity of sand, lime, Portland, etc.? *Or
should I just go with the premixed bags at the borg? *There may be a slight
storage problem of unused materials from batch to batch.

Other questions:

Is premixed concrete with aggregate best for first coursing? *How about cell
filling for grouting final wall?

What should I use for a stucco covering on it? *Is that the same mortar mix,
or a special stucco mix?

What outdoor temps should block be laid at? *And will it matter if the night
time temperature is below freezing? *Down to about 20 deg. F.

I don't think there will be many complicated things about doing the type,
quality, or amount of block work I want to do. *But suggestions are
welcomed.

Steve

You can't lay blocks in freezing conditions. The cement will just go
to dust if it freezes. In light frosts it can be covered up by
night. If the blocks are frozen before you start, the cement will not
stick either.

Sand & cement premixed costs the same as cement on its own in my
experience. Hence it is a very expensive way to go and saves very
little labour.

Most cement these days has additives and needs no lime. (Lime is quite
hazardous)

If you don't know these elemntary things, you are very likely to come
seriously unstuck. You want to get a good book and start with a small
project first in suitable weather.

On Dec 5, 11:24*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
I'm getting ready to lay some blocks. *Probably a lot of them, and quite a
few mixers full of cement. *Some low decorative walls, walkways, pavers,
bricks, etc.

For block laying, should I buy a quantity of sand, lime, Portland, etc.? *Or
should I just go with the premixed bags at the borg? *There may be a slight
storage problem of unused materials from batch to batch.

Other questions:

Is premixed concrete with aggregate best for first coursing? *How about cell
filling for grouting final wall?

What should I use for a stucco covering on it? *Is that the same mortar mix,
or a special stucco mix?

What outdoor temps should block be laid at? *And will it matter if the night
time temperature is below freezing? *Down to about 20 deg. F.

I don't think there will be many complicated things about doing the type,
quality, or amount of block work I want to do. *But suggestions are
welcomed.

Steve

I think the best thingyou can do is get someone in at least initially
and do the labouring work (mix cement, carry blocks etc) to save
money.
You can then watch how they do things and pick their brains.

You need to learn how to set things out and build things square,
vertical and horizontal, not to mention using tools etc.

This is skilled work, you will not learn enough here to do it
satisfactorily.

On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 15:24:24 -0800, "Steve B" wrote:

I'm getting ready to lay some blocks. Probably a lot of them, and quite a
few mixers full of cement. Some low decorative walls, walkways, pavers,
bricks, etc.

For block laying, should I buy a quantity of sand, lime, Portland, etc.? Or
should I just go with the premixed bags at the borg? There may be a slight
storage problem of unused materials from batch to batch.

I've had good luck with both methods. I prefer buying 'mason's
mix'. The lime is already there. You add the sand. The
advantage of buying the mason's mix is you can go with an extra rich
mix for your stucco, later. [BTW-- don't try to mix it in your
cement mixer. Use a tub, or a mortar mixer on a 1/2" drill.]


Other questions:

Is premixed concrete with aggregate best for first coursing? How about cell
filling for grouting final wall?

Fine for filling cells. not sure what you mean by 'first
coursing'. Don't forget to shove some re-rod in those cells, too.


What should I use for a stucco covering on it? Is that the same mortar mix,
or a special stucco mix?

I make a stucco mix that has 1/2 the sand of my regular mortar mix in
the mason's 'portland.


What outdoor temps should block be laid at? And will it matter if the night
time temperature is below freezing? Down to about 20 deg. F.

I wouldn't want my mortar to go below freezing for 48 hours. A week
would make me happier.

Jim

Steve B wrote:

I think a lot depends on if your wall is subject to lateral
loading (like a free-standing wall) with no right-angle bends
in it, or if this is soil retaining wall.

What I have seen done a lot on 6' high walls is spacing rebar about
4' apart. Screens are put into the proper places within the mortar
so that grout does not flow out,

I think what you mean by "screens" is this:

http://www.barker.com/products/index...31&product=311

This seems to be referred to as "block ladder mesh" and is meant to give
tensile strength to the mortar layer to allow for more flexing and less
cracking. That mesh wire looks like a ladder, but others have a diamond
pattern:

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j0...Block-Mesh.jpg

My wall will take a lot of freeze/thaw cycles, and we have blowing
sand that may keep the base wet all winter from the rain and snow.

I don't quite understand how blowing sand plays a role in water
exposure, but what-ever...

Also, it will be setting (sitting?) on blowsand, and tending to
settle, so horizontal rebar, even for a three to six course high
decorative pony wall.

I don't know what this blowsand is. Is this on a beach, or a dune?

It's a whole lot easier than trying to straighten or jack up a
sagging wall.

So this is a non structural, decorative garden wall, at most 5 ft high.

You don't say what you plan as a foundation.

I suggest at minimum you dig and pour a concrete foundation at grade
level, anywhere from 8" x 6" to 12" x 12" (and include a healthy amount
of rebar) to give these blocks a good base.

"Home Guy" wrote in message ...
Steve B wrote:

I think a lot depends on if your wall is subject to lateral
loading (like a free-standing wall) with no right-angle bends
in it, or if this is soil retaining wall.

What I have seen done a lot on 6' high walls is spacing rebar about
4' apart. Screens are put into the proper places within the mortar
so that grout does not flow out,

I think what you mean by "screens" is this:

http://www.barker.com/products/index...31&product=311

This seems to be referred to as "block ladder mesh" and is meant to give
tensile strength to the mortar layer to allow for more flexing and less
cracking. That mesh wire looks like a ladder, but others have a diamond
pattern:

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j0...Block-Mesh.jpg

My wall will take a lot of freeze/thaw cycles, and we have blowing
sand that may keep the base wet all winter from the rain and snow.

I don't quite understand how blowing sand plays a role in water
exposure, but what-ever...

Also, it will be setting (sitting?) on blowsand, and tending to
settle, so horizontal rebar, even for a three to six course high
decorative pony wall.

I don't know what this blowsand is. Is this on a beach, or a dune?

It's a whole lot easier than trying to straighten or jack up a
sagging wall.

So this is a non structural, decorative garden wall, at most 5 ft high.

You don't say what you plan as a foundation.

I suggest at minimum you dig and pour a concrete foundation at grade
level, anywhere from 8" x 6" to 12" x 12" (and include a healthy amount
of rebar) to give these blocks a good base.

Right on all points.

Steve

On 12/5/2011 5:24 PM, Steve B wrote:
I'm getting ready to lay some blocks. Probably a lot of them, and quite a
few mixers full of cement. Some low decorative walls, walkways, pavers,
bricks, etc.

For block laying, should I buy a quantity of sand, lime, Portland, etc.? Or
should I just go with the premixed bags at the borg? There may be a slight
storage problem of unused materials from batch to batch.

Other questions:

Is premixed concrete with aggregate best for first coursing? How about cell
filling for grouting final wall?

What should I use for a stucco covering on it? Is that the same mortar mix,
or a special stucco mix?

What outdoor temps should block be laid at? And will it matter if the night
time temperature is below freezing? Down to about 20 deg. F.

I don't think there will be many complicated things about doing the type,
quality, or amount of block work I want to do. But suggestions are
welcomed.

Steve




Steve, you have multiple choices for mortar. Traditional is equal parts
Portland and lime to 5 parts sand, a bit easier would be to use
mortar/masonry cement and sand (the lime is already blended with the
Portland) available as type S or type N, or mortar mix which has the
Portland, lime, and sand already in the bag. All reinforcing cells both
horizontal and vertical should be done with real concrete - sand,
Portland, and gravel NOT masonry cement.

You might want to consider another method: dry stack the block, use
concrete to create the slushed cells, and use QuickWall for the bond and
the finish:
http://www.quikrete.com/productlines...dingCement.asp

--


___________________________________

Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G