I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.

Should electricity go out to the house during the winter, I could
certainly get by for a few days with flashlights and coolers as long as
there is heat. I have instructions for running the boiler manually, and
could connect a battery operated thermostat, but would prefer to run it
on a backup electrical connection if possible so I don't have to babysit
it in the dark.

There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort?

Is this just a quick project in the event of a major winter outage
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? I've done plenty of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.

On Sep 10, 6:58*pm, Selk Perkner wrote:
I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. *If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.

Should electricity go out to the house during the winter, I could
certainly get by for a few days with flashlights and coolers as long as
there is heat. *I have instructions for running the boiler manually, and
could connect a battery operated thermostat, but would prefer to run it
on a backup electrical connection if possible so I don't have to babysit
it in the dark. *

There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? *How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort? *

Is this just a quick project in the event of a major winter outage *
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? *I've done plenty of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.

The boiler, very little electricity is needed, even if it has a fan.
You need to asses other things too freezers, fridges lighting etc.
You really need a generator sized to around twice your actual load.

You also need to think of what arrangements you need to connect it to
the house without the danger of parallel operation with the mains.
Eg big change-over switch.

Also siting (noise/fumes) and fuel storage. Maintenance and test
running.

On 9/10/2011 1:58 PM, Selk Perkner wrote:
I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.

Should electricity go out to the house during the winter, I could
certainly get by for a few days with flashlights and coolers as long as
there is heat. I have instructions for running the boiler manually, and
could connect a battery operated thermostat, but would prefer to run it
on a backup electrical connection if possible so I don't have to babysit
it in the dark.

There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort?

Is this just a quick project in the event of a major winter outage
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? I've done plenty of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.

First, the thermostat doesn't use a separate power supply, it gets
whatever electricity it needs, through the boiler power supply. The type
of system you have probably requires very little current, but not
knowing the actual components involved, I couldn't tell if you could
back it up with a low voltage power source. The easiest way would be to
Install a switch in the 120 volt circuit that feeds the boiler, in
conjunction with a male plug wired to the switch. With the switch in one
position, the boiler would get it's power from the utility company
circuit. With the switch in the other position, the boiler would get
it's power from an alternate source that would be connected to the male
plug. You could use a very small generator, like 1000 watts, or even use
a battery backup pack, that delivers 120 volts AC.

In article ,
Selk Perkner wrote:

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort?

you'd need to provide more info, ie model number and all those pesky rating
numbers, but as a guess you could do it with a battery, inverter and cutout
switch.

if you were going to use a generator to provide the electricity, it would be
easier to capture the waste heat instead of using your boiler

"RBM" wrote in message
...
On 9/10/2011 1:58 PM, Selk Perkner wrote:
I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.


There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.




First, the thermostat doesn't use a separate power supply, it gets
whatever electricity it needs, through the boiler power supply. The type
of system you have probably requires very little current, but not knowing
the actual components involved, I couldn't tell if you could back it up
with a low voltage power source. The easiest way would be to Install a
switch in the 120 volt circuit that feeds the boiler, in conjunction with
a male plug wired to the switch. With the switch in one position, the
boiler would get it's power from the utility company circuit. With the
switch in the other position, the boiler would get it's power from an
alternate source that would be connected to the male plug. You could use a
very small generator, like 1000 watts, or even use a battery backup pack,
that delivers 120 volts AC.


That would work. Can we also assume you have city water that is not
interrupted to feed the boiler?

On 9/10/2011 2:07 PM, RBM wrote:
On 9/10/2011 1:58 PM, Selk Perkner wrote:
I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.

Should electricity go out to the house during the winter, I could
certainly get by for a few days with flashlights and coolers as long as
there is heat. I have instructions for running the boiler manually, and
could connect a battery operated thermostat, but would prefer to run it
on a backup electrical connection if possible so I don't have to babysit
it in the dark.

There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort?

Is this just a quick project in the event of a major winter outage
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? I've done plenty of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.

First, the thermostat doesn't use a separate power supply, it gets
whatever electricity it needs, through the boiler power supply. The type
of system you have probably requires very little current, but not
knowing the actual components involved, I couldn't tell if you could
back it up with a low voltage power source. The easiest way would be to
Install a switch in the 120 volt circuit that feeds the boiler, in
conjunction with a male plug wired to the switch. With the switch in one
position, the boiler would get it's power from the utility company
circuit. With the switch in the other position, the boiler would get
it's power from an alternate source that would be connected to the male
plug. You could use a very small generator, like 1000 watts, or even use
a battery backup pack, that delivers 120 volts AC.



RBM, so glad to see that you still haunt this NG. I've always trusted
your electrical answers a bit better than some others.

On Sep 10, 1:58*pm, Selk Perkner wrote:
I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. *If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.

Should electricity go out to the house during the winter, I could
certainly get by for a few days with flashlights and coolers as long as
there is heat. *I have instructions for running the boiler manually, and
could connect a battery operated thermostat, but would prefer to run it
on a backup electrical connection if possible so I don't have to babysit
it in the dark. *

There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? *How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort? *

Is this just a quick project in the event of a major winter outage *
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? *I've done plenty of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.

As far as I know, the steam boilers only require 24 VAC for the gas
valve to open. You should have a transformer inside the cavity of the
boiler.
If you could somehow get a 24 VAC transformer that you can run off
lets say a UPS, or a car inverter, you should be good to go.

On 9/10/2011 1:58 PM, Selk Perkner wrote:
I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.

Should electricity go out to the house during the winter, I could
certainly get by for a few days with flashlights and coolers as long as
there is heat. I have instructions for running the boiler manually, and
could connect a battery operated thermostat, but would prefer to run it
on a backup electrical connection if possible so I don't have to babysit
it in the dark.

Good idea, most gas utilities won't even allow a manual bypass gas valve
for obvious reasons since it bypasses all safety devices.


There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort?

If it is just an old natural draft boiler without inducers or other
electrical loads a UPS would work. If you wanted an elegant solution
there are UPSs that can be hard wired. In that case you wouldn't have to
do anything to switch over since the UPS would do it for you.


Is this just a quick project in the event of a major winter outage
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? I've done plenty of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.

If it's just a gas valve. He oughta be able to find the 110
VAC wires to the boiler. Shut off the breaker, and take the
wires apart at a junction box, and wire into there.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Mikepier" wrote in message
...

Is this just a quick project in the event of a major
winter outage
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get
the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? I've done plenty
of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and
switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better
than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.

As far as I know, the steam boilers only require 24 VAC for
the gas
valve to open. You should have a transformer inside the
cavity of the
boiler.
If you could somehow get a 24 VAC transformer that you can
run off
lets say a UPS, or a car inverter, you should be good to
go.

On Sep 10, 5:23*pm, George wrote:
On 9/10/2011 1:58 PM, Selk Perkner wrote:

I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. *If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.

Should electricity go out to the house during the winter, I could
certainly get by for a few days with flashlights and coolers as long as
there is heat. *I have instructions for running the boiler manually, and
could connect a battery operated thermostat, but would prefer to run it
on a backup electrical connection if possible so I don't have to babysit
it in the dark.

Good idea, most gas utilities won't even allow a manual bypass gas valve
for obvious reasons since it bypasses all safety devices.



There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? *How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort?

If it is just an old natural draft boiler without inducers or other
electrical loads a UPS would work. If you wanted an elegant solution
there are UPSs that can be hard wired. In that case you wouldn't have to
do anything to switch over since the UPS would do it for you.





Is this just a quick project in the event of a major winter outage
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? *I've done plenty of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd start by measuring how much current the boiler
actually draws. Then knowing that and how long
you want to be able to keep it running you can determine
if a UPS will fit your needs or if you need a generator.
The advantage to a generator would be that it can
last as long as you keep it fueled.

For about $400 you can get a 3 or 4KW generator.
They also have kits available for about $250 that will
convert it to run off of natural gas. That eliminates
the need for gas and gives you an unlimited supply
as long as the gas doesn't quit too.

If you go the generator route, I would look into a
solution from Interlockit. They have kits where you
can use a circuit breaker and their slide lock on
many existing panels. That together with an inlet
device would allow you to use an extension cord
to connect the generator when necessary and
power ANY loads in the house. You just have to
manage the loads so that you don't exceed the
generator capacity. That would allow you to run
refrigerators, lights, etc of your choice in addition
to the boiler. It's a simple modification and IMO
a lot better than figuring out how to rewire just
the boiler.

On 9/10/2011 6:06 PM, wrote:
On Sep 10, 5:23 pm, wrote:
On 9/10/2011 1:58 PM, Selk Perkner wrote:

I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.

Should electricity go out to the house during the winter, I could
certainly get by for a few days with flashlights and coolers as long as
there is heat. I have instructions for running the boiler manually, and
could connect a battery operated thermostat, but would prefer to run it
on a backup electrical connection if possible so I don't have to babysit
it in the dark.

Good idea, most gas utilities won't even allow a manual bypass gas valve
for obvious reasons since it bypasses all safety devices.



There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort?

If it is just an old natural draft boiler without inducers or other
electrical loads a UPS would work. If you wanted an elegant solution
there are UPSs that can be hard wired. In that case you wouldn't have to
do anything to switch over since the UPS would do it for you.





Is this just a quick project in the event of a major winter outage
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? I've done plenty of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd start by measuring how much current the boiler
actually draws. Then knowing that and how long
you want to be able to keep it running you can determine
if a UPS will fit your needs or if you need a generator.
The advantage to a generator would be that it can
last as long as you keep it fueled.

If his description is accurate his boiler has a typical standing pilot
gas valve like this one which is the only thing that consumes power on
the type of boiler he described (no inducer, no electronic ignition etc):

http://customer.honeywell.com/honeyw...px/VR8300A4516

That is a 3/4" valve, his is likely a smaller 1/2" unless he has a huge
house or high heat loss.

It says the anticipator should be set to 0.7A so that gives 16.8 va.
Assume 50% efficiency and the load is 33.6 va.

A ~ $200 class UPS could easily hold that load up for two days with no
need for storing fuel etc. Plus unless it is at outside design temp the
duty cycle will be less so the only consumption will be losses in the
transformer when the gas valve is closed.



For about $400 you can get a 3 or 4KW generator.
They also have kits available for about $250 that will
convert it to run off of natural gas. That eliminates
the need for gas and gives you an unlimited supply
as long as the gas doesn't quit too.

If you go the generator route, I would look into a
solution from Interlockit. They have kits where you
can use a circuit breaker and their slide lock on
many existing panels. That together with an inlet
device would allow you to use an extension cord
to connect the generator when necessary and
power ANY loads in the house. You just have to
manage the loads so that you don't exceed the
generator capacity. That would allow you to run
refrigerators, lights, etc of your choice in addition
to the boiler. It's a simple modification and IMO
a lot better than figuring out how to rewire just
the boiler.

Selk Perkner wrote the following:
I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.

Should electricity go out to the house during the winter, I could
certainly get by for a few days with flashlights and coolers as long as
there is heat. I have instructions for running the boiler manually, and
could connect a battery operated thermostat, but would prefer to run it
on a backup electrical connection if possible so I don't have to babysit
it in the dark.

There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort?

Is this just a quick project in the event of a major winter outage
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? I've done plenty of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.


Everyone in my neighborhood (a 3 mile long dead end street) has a
portable gasoline generator that runs the whole house, including the
well pumps. We don't have any utilities or services that don't come over
pole mounted wires (electricity, phone, cable TV, internet) except for
satellite TV, fuel oil, and propane. I think that our part of the
electric grid is connected to the main grid by an extension cord running
over the ground that somehow gets unplugged by a cow tripping over the
extension cord. :-)

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Sep 10, 5:23*pm, George wrote:
On 9/10/2011 1:58 PM, Selk Perkner wrote:

I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. *If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.

Should electricity go out to the house during the winter, I could
certainly get by for a few days with flashlights and coolers as long as
there is heat. *I have instructions for running the boiler manually, and
could connect a battery operated thermostat, but would prefer to run it
on a backup electrical connection if possible so I don't have to babysit
it in the dark.

Good idea, most gas utilities won't even allow a manual bypass gas valve
for obvious reasons since it bypasses all safety devices.


"manual bypass gas valve .snip. since it bypasses all safety devices."

That is simply untrue. The manual bypass does bypass the
thermostatically controlled solenoid gas valve but it does not bypass
the pilot safety shut off system, over temperature cutoff, or the
pressure limit safety. And nothing bypasses the pressure relief
valve! He already said that he had the instructions for running the
boiler manually. When such instructions are provided the safeties are
all mechanical because electrically actuated safeties fail safe and
prevent operation when the electricity is absent.

There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? *How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort?

If it is just an old natural draft boiler without inducers or other
electrical loads a UPS would work. If you wanted an elegant solution
there are UPSs that can be hard wired. In that case you wouldn't have to
do anything to switch over since the UPS would do it for you.


Is this just a quick project in the event of a major winter outage
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? *I've done plenty of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.

On 9/11/2011 12:21 PM, Tom Horne wrote:
On Sep 10, 5:23 pm, wrote:
On 9/10/2011 1:58 PM, Selk Perkner wrote:

I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.

Should electricity go out to the house during the winter, I could
certainly get by for a few days with flashlights and coolers as long as
there is heat. I have instructions for running the boiler manually, and
could connect a battery operated thermostat, but would prefer to run it
on a backup electrical connection if possible so I don't have to babysit
it in the dark.

Good idea, most gas utilities won't even allow a manual bypass gas valve
for obvious reasons since it bypasses all safety devices.


"manual bypass gas valve .snip. since it bypasses all safety devices."

That is simply untrue.

Okay, it bypasses essential safety controls.

The manual bypass does bypass the
thermostatically controlled solenoid gas valve but it does not bypass
the pilot safety shut off system

not really much help if someone opens the bypass and lets the burners
operate. The pilot already did its job at that point.

over temperature cutoff, or the

the gas valve is now turned on manually. No over temp cutoff is in play.

pressure limit safety. And nothing bypasses the pressure relief
valve!

There is no pressure limit safety when the gas valve is manually bypassed.

The typical failure mode is that the water gets boiled off and the
boiler turns red and sets the house on fire. BIL has his doctorate in
engineering and owns an engineering firm. They do an extensive amount of
accident investigation work and that info (and pictures) came straight
from him.

He already said that he had the instructions for running the
boiler manually. When such instructions are provided the safeties are
all mechanical because electrically actuated safeties fail safe and
prevent operation when the electricity is absent.

Then why do you think the gas utilities in our area (one is a national
outfit) will not allow a manual bypass to be installed?


There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort?

If it is just an old natural draft boiler without inducers or other
electrical loads a UPS would work. If you wanted an elegant solution
there are UPSs that can be hard wired. In that case you wouldn't have to
do anything to switch over since the UPS would do it for you.


Is this just a quick project in the event of a major winter outage
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? I've done plenty of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.

On Sep 10, 1:58*pm, Selk Perkner wrote:
I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. *If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.

Should electricity go out to the house during the winter, I could
certainly get by for a few days with flashlights and coolers as long as
there is heat. *I have instructions for running the boiler manually, and
could connect a battery operated thermostat, but would prefer to run it
on a backup electrical connection if possible so I don't have to babysit
it in the dark. *

There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? *How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort? *

Is this just a quick project in the event of a major winter outage *
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? *I've done plenty of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.

If you can competently install switches and receptacles then you can
install this connection. Most boilers are not listed for cord and
plug connection because they are "appliances fastened in
place." [That is listing laboratory language that is used in an
somewhat different way than similar language in the National Electric
Code.] That rules out replacing the switch with a cord and receptacle
which would be the simplest approach.

What you do instead is that you install a double pole, double throw,
center off switch in place of the switch that is there now. Next to
that switch you install a box with a flanged inlet type male plug.

It looks like the one in this picture
http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/B-
pG-50KA4dOegnH2MOYjuIyEOIbH8yr_tGruKkImB0vuOJWensjFUE Npv71w7ZeDE5RVKo8e1iUoDXuQP_1TqjcbJB0vtf7_Fyws1DuZ c4frkosiwi-
tSAdk0WJVz6ursC4n9yLjlEU4Crgl-1Deo7jRi0MDHdP
Cut and paste everything between the Less Than and Greater Than
signs into your browsers navigation field.

The grounded current carrying conductor (neutral) and the energized
conductor of the plug attach to the terminals at one end of the
switch. The existing grounded current carrying conductor (neutral)
and the energized conductor of the dedicated branch circuit that
supplies the boiler go on the other end of the switch. The grounded
current carrying conductor (neutral) and the energized conductor of
the boilers wiring go to the middle terminals of that same switch.
You will need a continuity tester of some sort to test how the
terminals on the switch are laid out so that you do not reverse the
circuit polarity through the switch contacts. It is important, in
some cases, that the grounded current carrying conductor (neutral) and
the energized conductor of the circuit remain in the same polarity no
matter which source is supplying the boiler wiring.

When a power failure occurs you throw the switch to the center off
position, connect the cord from your alternate power source to the
male blades of the flanged inlet, turn on that power source, and throw
the switch to the other end from the normal power position to connect
the flanged inlet to the boiler's wiring.

As George has already pointed out if you use a hard wired UPS or a a
battery charging automatic inverter then it will do all of the
switching for you.

--
Tom Horne

The electric code dictates that you must use a device like the Reliance
Controls TF151W. Reasonably priced and certainly easy enough to install.

On 9/11/2011 1:42 PM, Nikola Tesla wrote:
The electric code dictates that you must use a device like the Reliance
Controls TF151W. Reasonably priced and certainly easy enough to install.

That is pretty much exactly what Tom just described. I have to admit,
the Reliance unit will be cheaper

On Sun, 11 Sep 2011 13:42:55 -0400, Nikola Tesla nikola.tesla@nospam
wrote:

The electric code dictates that you must use a device like the Reliance
Controls TF151W. Reasonably priced and certainly easy enough to install.

Time for my reminder in case the OP didn't think about this.
Think about how many times you might have an outage in the winter.
Think about if there's old folks who need good heat to prevent
hypothermia.
And about freezing pipes, and what you need for heat on a "temporary"
basis.

Consider the final cost and maintenance of all this - generator, UPS
or otherwise to power your furnace.
Switching, possible electrician cost, possible permits.
Keeping gasoline or diesel around if you go that way.
Starting her up on a regular basis to make sure she runs when needed.
But you won't be sure until you need it.

Then know that you can hook up a small 30k btu or better natural gas
space heater on the floor or wall next to the furnace for maybe 200
bucks. No electric needed. Heat moves up from the basement.
Depending on your kitchen range, you can get another 20-45k btu there.

Not saying a generator doesn't have plenty of other uses.
But just for temporary furnace heat to prevent people and pipes from
freezing, there's better ways.

--Vic

On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 15:07:08 -0400, RBM wrote:

On 9/10/2011 1:58 PM, Selk Perkner wrote:
I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.

Should electricity go out to the house during the winter, I could
certainly get by for a few days with flashlights and coolers as long as
there is heat. I have instructions for running the boiler manually, and
could connect a battery operated thermostat, but would prefer to run it
on a backup electrical connection if possible so I don't have to babysit
it in the dark.

There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort?

Is this just a quick project in the event of a major winter outage
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? I've done plenty of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.

First, the thermostat doesn't use a separate power supply, it gets
whatever electricity it needs, through the boiler power supply. The type
of system you have probably requires very little current, but not
knowing the actual components involved, I couldn't tell if you could
back it up with a low voltage power source. The easiest way would be to
Install a switch in the 120 volt circuit that feeds the boiler, in
conjunction with a male plug wired to the switch. With the switch in one
position, the boiler would get it's power from the utility company
circuit. With the switch in the other position, the boiler would get
it's power from an alternate source that would be connected to the male
plug. You could use a very small generator, like 1000 watts, or even use
a battery backup pack, that delivers 120 volts AC.

I hired an electrician to put in a switch that does exactly that. If
need be, I can plug the boiler into the generator, flip the switch,
and it will run. I could have done it myself probably but there were
an awful lot of old wires around and I didn't want to mess it up.

However, since I bought the generator, the power does not go out.
That's after several major storms and a hurricane that knocked out
power to Long Island for quite a few days. Coincidence? Most likely
yes.

On 9/12/2011 9:08 AM, dgk wrote:
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 15:07:08 -0400, wrote:

On 9/10/2011 1:58 PM, Selk Perkner wrote:
I have an older Weil Mclain gas steam boiler for the radiators in my
house. If the electricity goes out, it won't run -- I believe it needs
electricity to operate the gas valve, and the thermostat is also wired
into a circuit.

Should electricity go out to the house during the winter, I could
certainly get by for a few days with flashlights and coolers as long as
there is heat. I have instructions for running the boiler manually, and
could connect a battery operated thermostat, but would prefer to run it
on a backup electrical connection if possible so I don't have to babysit
it in the dark.

There is a single electical conduit running into the boiler which is
connected to a box with an on-off switch above the boiler, as well as a
line running from the thermostat.

The thermostat is obviously a straightforward job, but is it a
straightforward job to switch the power at the on-off switch from the
regular house current to a backup source? How much capacity will this
backup need -- does it pretty much need to be a gas generator, or can I
get by with a battery backup of some sort?

Is this just a quick project in the event of a major winter outage
(assuming I buy the parts ahead of time) or should I get the guy who
does the annual inspection do the work? I've done plenty of basic
wiring like running cable for new outlets and lights and switches, so
I'm not intimidated by basic stuff, but also know better than to mess
with stuff beyond my pay grade.

First, the thermostat doesn't use a separate power supply, it gets
whatever electricity it needs, through the boiler power supply. The type
of system you have probably requires very little current, but not
knowing the actual components involved, I couldn't tell if you could
back it up with a low voltage power source. The easiest way would be to
Install a switch in the 120 volt circuit that feeds the boiler, in
conjunction with a male plug wired to the switch. With the switch in one
position, the boiler would get it's power from the utility company
circuit. With the switch in the other position, the boiler would get
it's power from an alternate source that would be connected to the male
plug. You could use a very small generator, like 1000 watts, or even use
a battery backup pack, that delivers 120 volts AC.

I hired an electrician to put in a switch that does exactly that. If
need be, I can plug the boiler into the generator, flip the switch,
and it will run. I could have done it myself probably but there were
an awful lot of old wires around and I didn't want to mess it up.

However, since I bought the generator, the power does not go out.
That's after several major storms and a hurricane that knocked out
power to Long Island for quite a few days. Coincidence? Most likely
yes.


Murphy's law, go with it!!

"dgk" wrote in message
...
However, since I bought the generator, the power does not go out.
That's after several major storms and a hurricane that knocked out
power to Long Island for quite a few days. Coincidence? Most likely
yes.

I have had a 5 kw gasoline generator for about the last 12 years. We have
had 4 power outages that lasted more than an hour. Generator would not
start either time. Each time I had to clean out the sediment in the
carborator bowl. I have started running it about 15 minuits each week or
two. Also putting the Stabil in the gas. It will start with 2 or 3 pulls
of the cord. Almost waiting on the next power outage to see if it will
start this time.

On 9/12/2011 6:05 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message
...
However, since I bought the generator, the power does not go out.
That's after several major storms and a hurricane that knocked out
power to Long Island for quite a few days. Coincidence? Most likely
yes.

I have had a 5 kw gasoline generator for about the last 12 years. We have
had 4 power outages that lasted more than an hour. Generator would not
start either time. Each time I had to clean out the sediment in the
carborator bowl. I have started running it about 15 minuits each week or
two. Also putting the Stabil in the gas. It will start with 2 or 3 pulls
of the cord. Almost waiting on the next power outage to see if it will
start this time.


I used a gasoline generator for about 10 years. I always had Stabil in
the fuel, and twice a year I drained the tank, ran the engine dry, then
refilled with fresh gas. With this method, I never had any starting issues

"Ralph Mowery" wrote

I have had a 5 kw gasoline generator for about the last 12 years. We have
had 4 power outages that lasted more than an hour. Generator would not
start either time.

Hurricane Gloria was the only time we were without for a long time (36
hours) in my 66 years. I think a obut it once in a while, but I have a
difficult time justifying a $600+ outlay to sit in the garage for years at a
time. With Irene, were were out maybe two minutes, even though near us was
out for a week.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:19:05 -0400, RBM wrote:

On 9/12/2011 6:05 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message
...
However, since I bought the generator, the power does not go out.
That's after several major storms and a hurricane that knocked out
power to Long Island for quite a few days. Coincidence? Most likely
yes.

I have had a 5 kw gasoline generator for about the last 12 years. We have
had 4 power outages that lasted more than an hour. Generator would not
start either time. Each time I had to clean out the sediment in the
carborator bowl. I have started running it about 15 minuits each week or
two. Also putting the Stabil in the gas. It will start with 2 or 3 pulls
of the cord. Almost waiting on the next power outage to see if it will
start this time.


I used a gasoline generator for about 10 years. I always had Stabil in
the fuel, and twice a year I drained the tank, ran the engine dry, then
refilled with fresh gas. With this method, I never had any starting issues

I only tried the generator twice. Both times it started right up
(cheap Chinese thing, 3700 watts or something). When done testing I
drain the gas out of it, including the screw in the carborator. I keep
the gas in a 5 gallon (approved red) plastic container. I didn't put
in Stabile but will this time.

The gas was about 6 months old before Irene hit so I dumped it into
the car which was about half empty and filled the car with high octane
gas so the old stuff wouldn't knock the octane too low. Then I filled
the container with fresh gas.

But is a good idea to use stabile and I bought some and in it goes.
Still, every six months I figure that I'll dump it in the car and get
fresh.