The Daring Dufas wrote:

That's why I would recommend recording your phone conversations with
government agencies. You properly notify them that you're recording
with an explanation that it's for your records and get them to verify
their name, time/date and if they are the correct person to be talking
to about your situation.


Many states do not requie two-party consent to record. I don't think there's
a federal law on point.

On Jul 28, 10:43*am, "Bob-tx" No Spam no contact wrote:
In one of our bathrooms, we have a sewer gas odor. *It is coming from around
the commode, not from the shower, sinks or tub. *I am guessing it is
probably a bad wax ring, but I am not able to tackle the job myself.

I called a plumber, and he told me they had to run a 'smoke test' to
determine the problem. *He said I had to notify the fire department they
were going to run the smoke test, that is the law (????). *I asked how much
that cost. *"$300"!!!!

Then I asked how much to change the wax ring without the smoke test. *He
said they won't do that unless they first run the smoke test.

I think it's a rip off. *Surely, it wouldn't take more than an hour to
replace the wax ring, and even at an inflated price, that should not be over
$100.

Question: *Is this a normal procedure, or a rip off?

Thanks for your advice.

Bob-tx

Not a rip off. This is the best way to find the problem. If they just
replace the ring and that doesnt fix the problem they are going to be
the goat for not fixing it right the first time.. Assume you just have
the ring replaced and they will not guarantee the work because they
are not sure this is the cause. You agree or they dont do the work,
This will probably cost close to $200. If all goes well great if not
you are out of $200 and bathroom still stinks and its still going to
cost another $400 or more to get it done right. Most neighborhoods
usally has someone living there that can do odd jobs like the for $40
or $50. He may not fix it for you either but it wont cost $ 200 to
find out.


Jimmie.

"George" wrote in message
...
On 7/28/2011 11:32 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

When we use a smoke bomb to check air conditioner duct work for air
leaks, we notify the fire department as a mater of common sense.

TDD

Especially in recent times when so many places use emergency services as
a revenue stream.

Not just emergency services. Anything that can be turned into a revenue
source for the municipalities WILL be turned into one. The next big
"default" is expected to come as a result of the many pension and health
care promises made to city/county employees that are unfunded or
underfunded. Just like retiring GM workers (and hundreds of thousands of
others) found out, your retirement bennies can be negotiated away in the
blink of an eye. To at least try to meet the payments due retirees, local
governments are going to charge for everything they can and have already
steeply hiked various fees and fines. Talk about anti-business
environments. The funny thing about recessions is how they tend to
avalanche.

--
Bobby G.

On Jul 28, 10:51*am, notbob wrote:
On 2011-07-28, Bob-tx No wrote:

I called a plumber, and he told me they had to run a 'smoke test' to
determine the problem. *He said I had to notify the fire department they
were going to run the smoke test, that is the law (????). *I asked how much
that cost. *"$300"!!!!
Question: *Is this a normal procedure, or a rip off?

Sounds like a rip-off to me. *

First, I'd call the city and ask if it is, in fact, "the law", and
second, I'd ask if I could do my own smoke test. *Can't be too hard.
Just find your cleanout and insert smoke bomb. *Also, you might try
calling a couple more plumbers.

nb

--
vi ...the heart of evil

If you do your own smoke test, suggesting you put it into a small can
with a wire through holes in the sides. Otherwise, the bomb can melt
a portion of a plastic pipe.

Oren wrote in
:

On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 03:22:03 +0000 (UTC), "A. Baum"
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:39:05 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 23:43:21 +0000 (UTC), "A. Baum"
wrote:

Any person who can follow simple instructions can change their own
seal.

Unless the person has a physical conditions that prevents it.

Most anyone who can **** in a toilet can change the seal.

My nephew can "**** in a toilet", but not change a wax ring. In a
wheel chair for 30 years because of Multiple sclerosis (MS).

So, your general blanket statement is wrong, period! Do you even
think? Get outside the box a bit.

You are now dismissed. Go forth and error no more.

Don't dismiss A. Baum. There's something I want to learn from him about
that ****ting in the toilet. Like how he does it with his head up his ass.

Oren wrote:

Most anyone who can **** in a toilet can change the seal.

My nephew can "**** in a toilet", but not change a wax ring.

Well, he did say "most anyone".

On 7/29/2011 3:29 PM, HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

That's why I would recommend recording your phone conversations with
government agencies. You properly notify them that you're recording
with an explanation that it's for your records and get them to verify
their name, time/date and if they are the correct person to be talking
to about your situation.


Many states do not requie two-party consent to record. I don't think there's
a federal law on point.


My thought is to record them with their full knowledge so there is no
chance for an accusation of underhandedness or any violation of law. I
know prosecutors like to make up laws as they go about their daily
business or more correctly try to fit an imagined offense to an existing
law.

TDD

On 7/29/2011 7:48 AM, HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:



When we use a smoke bomb to check air conditioner duct work for air
leaks, we notify the fire department as a mater of common sense.


Couldn't you determine whether the sanitary sewer system was connected to
the A/C ductwork by some other method?

Where I used to work, our facilities manager chunked a smoke bomb into the
A/C return air handler. Immediately HUGE volumes of smoke shot up through
the bottom of the three mainframes in the computer room. Smoke detectors
went nuts. Operators pulled the emergency power-down handles. About a
zillion fire trucks surrounded the building and demanded the release of the
hostages. Confusing and contradictory instructions were bellowed out over
the PA system. People screamed "Run for your life" and "We're all gonna
die!". Some sat at their desk and wept.

All in all, a fun afternoon.



Chortle. Some kind soul volunteered me as a Fire Warden (aka hall
monitor) at the federal facility where I work, as a 'temporary'
replacement for a fellow that fell off a ladder, working on his dad's
house. (See the AHR connection?) Well, that poor guy ain't ever gonna
walk right again, so it looks like I am stuck with it. Your lovely
description pretty much fits all the mass evac exercises they do there-
I have to be the last SOB off the floor to make sure everyone left, mark
the doors accordingly, and then make my boss call in to their 'command
center' so they can do a nose count. Said command center is in the
basement, BTW. If the building takes heavy damage, it will be very dark
down there, with no way out.
--
aem sends...

Redneck smoke test. Light a sealed pack of cigarettes, and
drop in. If that doesn't show any leaks, have Clark Griswold
pour in a gal of gasoline.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Michael B"
wrote in message
...


First, I'd call the city and ask if it is, in fact, "the
law", and
second, I'd ask if I could do my own smoke test. Can't be
too hard.
Just find your cleanout and insert smoke bomb. Also, you
might try
calling a couple more plumbers.

If you do your own smoke test, suggesting you put it into a
small can
with a wire through holes in the sides. Otherwise, the bomb
can melt
a portion of a plastic pipe.

On 7/30/2011 12:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Redneck smoke test. Light a sealed pack of cigarettes, and
drop in. If that doesn't show any leaks, have Clark Griswold
pour in a gal of gasoline.


It doesn't solve the problem of building occupants and FD panicking, but
'smoke' doesn't actually have to be smoke. On TV, they show them using a
fog generator, similar to what DJs used to use for parties, and what
they use shooting movies, to blow non-toxic fog into whatever system
they are testing. Mebbe local DJ/party supply store still has such
devices available to rent. Google shows small ones available for
purchase pretty cheap.

--
aem sends...

The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 7/29/2011 3:29 PM, HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

That's why I would recommend recording your phone conversations with
government agencies. You properly notify them that you're recording
with an explanation that it's for your records and get them to
verify their name, time/date and if they are the correct person to
be talking to about your situation.


Many states do not requie two-party consent to record. I don't think
there's a federal law on point.


My thought is to record them with their full knowledge so there is no
chance for an accusation of underhandedness or any violation of law. I
know prosecutors like to make up laws as they go about their daily
business or more correctly try to fit an imagined offense to an
existing law.


Good point, but if they know they're being recorded, they'll be more
circumspect. I prefer them to say "I should take two steps back and put ten
bullets in your f***ing chest!"

On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 20:02:59 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Oren wrote:

Most anyone who can **** in a toilet can change the seal.

My nephew can "**** in a toilet", but not change a wax ring.

Well, he did say "most anyone".

Well, he also stated:

:"Any person who can follow simple instructions can change their own
:seal."

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 20:02:59 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Oren wrote:

Most anyone who can **** in a toilet can change the seal.

My nephew can "**** in a toilet", but not change a wax ring.

Well, he did say "most anyone".

Well, he also stated:

:"Any person who can follow simple instructions can change their own
:seal."

I guess if you're infirm, or inexperienced with tools, then you can't
"follow" the instructions.

On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 07:31:32 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 20:02:59 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Oren wrote:

Most anyone who can **** in a toilet can change the seal.

My nephew can "**** in a toilet", but not change a wax ring.

Well, he did say "most anyone".

Well, he also stated:

:"Any person who can follow simple instructions can change their own
:seal."

I guess if you're infirm, or inexperienced with tools, then you can't
"follow" the instructions.

I guess the seals aren't all that's circular, in this thread.

On 7/30/2011 7:44 AM, HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 7/29/2011 3:29 PM, HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

That's why I would recommend recording your phone conversations with
government agencies. You properly notify them that you're recording
with an explanation that it's for your records and get them to
verify their name, time/date and if they are the correct person to
be talking to about your situation.


Many states do not requie two-party consent to record. I don't think
there's a federal law on point.


My thought is to record them with their full knowledge so there is no
chance for an accusation of underhandedness or any violation of law. I
know prosecutors like to make up laws as they go about their daily
business or more correctly try to fit an imagined offense to an
existing law.


Good point, but if they know they're being recorded, they'll be more
circumspect. I prefer them to say "I should take two steps back and put ten
bullets in your f***ing chest!"



Just my luck, the government criminal terrorist with a badge would do
it. I'm sure a firearm I never knew I owned would be found in my
lifeless hand and there would be no sign of my recording device and the
government owned recording device would have a mysterious malfunction
rendering it useless. My luck always seems to run like that.

TDD

A few weeks ago, I would have answered as several have that most
people could easily do this themselves (especially if you take an
extra 2 minutes to separate the tank from the bowl).

That was until I (reasonably young, fit and mechanical) spent 2 days
dealing with the aftermath of pulling up a toilet to snake a drain.
Brass bolts pulled through the rotted iron flange when reinstalling,
flange broke when bolts were moved, was too close to the concrete slab
for a steel repair ring, too high for a slip in pvc flange. Finally
put anchors in the slab. 40 year old soldered shutoff valve leaked
when reopened and had to be replaced (too damaged to just replace
innards). 5 other minor things that I'm forgetting...

No, this still shouldn't have taken me two days, but I wasn't in a
position to drop everything else to do this all at once, and was
expecting a 2 hour job when I started. Luckily, we have two
bathrooms...

So, just keep in mind that the potential for "surprises" is there...


My reading of what the OP wrote is that the plumber meant that it was
their policy to do the smoke test, and that when doing a smoke test
they are required by law to inform the FD, not that they are required
to do the test. The second part sounds fairly reasonable. The first
sounds like he didn't want the job. But then maybe he's done this
before and had to deal with customers claiming he didn't fix the
problem when it was actually somewhere else...

aemeijers wrote in
:

On 7/28/2011 11:22 PM, A. Baum wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:39:05 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 23:43:21 +0000 (UTC), "A.
wrote:

Any person who can follow simple instructions can change their own
seal.

Unless the person has a physical conditions that prevents it.

Most anyone who can **** in a toilet can change the seal.

Speaking of ****, yer full of it. 1/3 of this country is obese, which
often includes a reduced ability to lift things, especially in small
spaces, not to mention many people can't see well enough to do the
close work of fussing with the bolts, assuming they can even get down
on the floor to get to them, and get back up. Add in the common
complication of the shutoff valve being frozen or rotted, and the
downside gets big fast.

Don't forget the extended time it takes to find an oblong wax ring if you
ave an oblong toilet.

So, yes, anyone who is in halfway-decent shape
and HAS SEEN IT DONE BEFORE can R and R a toilet. But if someone is
not a regular tool user, or doesn't even own the tools, and the house
is over 20 years old, I always recommend they get a plumber. I do tell
them to watch and learn, though. If the house only has one bathroom,
and there is a SWMBO and rug-rats involved, I strongly recommend a
plumber- there is no postponing things when the family needs to pee.
And Murphy being Murphy, even if you start early on Sat when the Borg
is open, there will be unexpected complications. Any real plumber will
have the 20 most common parts on his truck.

You mean I need a green, oblong wax seal? I bet those are
expensive. I called Lowe's about the time someone told the
plumbing dept guy a joke. He was saying "Hmm. Oblong, green
wax seal?" and then he bust out laughing.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Red Green" wrote in message
...


Don't forget the extended time it takes to find an oblong
wax ring if you
have an oblong toilet.

Larry Fishel wrote:

My reading of what the OP wrote is that the plumber meant that it
was their policy to do the smoke test, and that when doing a smoke
test they are required by law to inform the FD

My first reply to the OP was that he should simply ask another plumbing
company how much they would charge to replace a toilet floor seal.

In other words - don't mention anything about a sewer gas odor. That
should alleviate any tendency for the plumbers to raise the issue of a
smoke test.

In article ,
Bob-tx No Spam no contact wrote:
In one of our bathrooms, we have a sewer gas odor. It is coming from around
the commode, not from the shower, sinks or tub. I am guessing it is
probably a bad wax ring, but I am not able to tackle the job myself.

I called a plumber, and he told me they had to run a 'smoke test' to
determine the problem. He said I had to notify the fire department they
were going to run the smoke test, that is the law (????). I asked how much
that cost. "$300"!!!!

Then I asked how much to change the wax ring without the smoke test. He
said they won't do that unless they first run the smoke test.

I think it's a rip off. Surely, it wouldn't take more than an hour to
replace the wax ring, and even at an inflated price, that should not be over
$100.

Question: Is this a normal procedure, or a rip off?

Thanks for your advice.

Bob-tx


You are right about not costing more than about $100 to replace the wax
ring. But there is sometimes additional cost for cutting or drilling out
the corroded bolts & nuts, cutting away the floor to replace the
rusted out pipe flange, fixing the floor where it's rotted away over
a the years because of a leak, etc.


of

--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On Jul 28, 5:35*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
The same guy offered to degauss my
computer monitor for $379.

Wow, there's a phrase I haven't heard in years. Thanks for making me
feel old.

nate

On Jul 28, 9:37*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
*"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Lifting a 75 pound toilet may be too much for folks. And
kneeling long enough to pull the hold down bolts. And,
and.....

And dealing with rusted-out bolts embedded in a concrete slab. All of a
sudden, a simple job gets complicated.

shouldn't be embedded, but you pretty much need a 4.5" angle grinder
to get them off unless the previous occupant was anal retentive and
used stainless and anti-seize... and even so, I've seen wax ring kits
w/ nylocs... WTF? how the hell do you remove a nyloc from a t-bolt?

In article
,
N8N wrote:

On Jul 28, 5:35*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
The same guy offered to degauss my
computer monitor for $379.

Wow, there's a phrase I haven't heard in years. Thanks for making me
feel old.

nate

Hey, I still find a need for my degaussing coil about every 2-3 yrs.

In the early 1970s, my Dad built a heathkit, which had some
way to degauss the tube.

That was after remembering to retard the spark, and keep
your thumb out, so the back kick doesn't break your arm.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"N8N" wrote in message
...
On Jul 28, 5:35 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
The same guy offered to degauss my
computer monitor for $379.

Wow, there's a phrase I haven't heard in years. Thanks for
making me
feel old.

nate

I used sawzall, on mine. Well, those were tank bolts. Today
I cut copper tubing with bolt cutters. Do what works.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"N8N" wrote in message
...


And dealing with rusted-out bolts embedded in a concrete
slab. All of a
sudden, a simple job gets complicated.

shouldn't be embedded, but you pretty much need a 4.5" angle
grinder
to get them off unless the previous occupant was anal
retentive and
used stainless and anti-seize... and even so, I've seen wax
ring kits
w/ nylocs... WTF? how the hell do you remove a nyloc from a
t-bolt?