I've had problems with the pump circuit at my pool. The electrician
fixed that by bypassing some other stuff up there and says he won't do
any more unless I agree to let him bring the old wiring up to code.
From what I've seen of what the prior electrician did, he's right.
But I'm not sure everything he wants to do is necessary:
1) Bonding filter pump and heater to "the bonding bar in the
electrical equipment trough". Sounds good to me, but I don;'t think we
have a bonding bar or a trough.
2) Supply and install a mounting board for the electrical
equipment. Needed? At the moment, it's all mounted to a structural
element of the pump house.
3) Install a twist-lock receptacle with in-use cover and a twist-
lock cord and plug for the pump? At the moment, the motor is hard-
wired to a switch. It is only disconnected when service is required.

Why are these items needed? The rest of his suggestions all make
obvious sense, so I have not listed them.

"Ivan" wrote in message
...
I've had problems with the pump circuit at my pool. The electrician
fixed that by bypassing some other stuff up there and says he won't do
any more unless I agree to let him bring the old wiring up to code.
From what I've seen of what the prior electrician did, he's right.
But I'm not sure everything he wants to do is necessary:
1) Bonding filter pump and heater to "the bonding bar in the
electrical equipment trough". Sounds good to me, but I don;'t think we
have a bonding bar or a trough.

Everything metal, that's associated with the pool, must be bonded together.
Whatever "bonding bar" he's talking about, is probably some location where
other bonding conductors come together. It's a safety thing





2) Supply and install a mounting board for the electrical
equipment. Needed? At the moment, it's all mounted to a structural
element of the pump house.

If it's structurally sound, it should be fine. If it's rotting, then replace
it.


3) Install a twist-lock receptacle with in-use cover and a twist-
lock cord and plug for the pump? At the moment, the motor is hard-
wired to a switch. It is only disconnected when service is required.

It's a pia to get those wires in and out of a pump. I don't know that I'd go
for it now, but if you need to replace the pump, I would certainly wire it
to a twist lok

Why are these items needed? The rest of his suggestions all make
obvious sense, so I have not listed them.

On May 19, 4:51*pm, Ivan wrote:
I've had problems with the pump circuit at my pool. The electrician
fixed that by bypassing some other stuff up there and says he won't do
any more unless I agree to let him bring the old wiring up to code.
From what I've seen of what the prior electrician did, he's right.
But I'm not sure everything he wants to do is necessary:
1) Bonding filter pump and heater to "the bonding bar in the
electrical equipment trough". Sounds good to me, but I don;'t think we
have a bonding bar or a trough.

Per code all the metal around the pool and pool equipment
has to be bonded together. That includes metal pool ladders, pumps,
heaters, switch boxes, etc. Not sure what he means by
the bonding bar in the electrical eqpt trough, but it sounds
like he's proposing to tie the bonded parts to some bonding
point already there. Normally the pool ladder sockets
and the concrete surrounding the pool are bonded together
with a wire that then runs over to the pool eqpt. Then the
heater, pumps, etc are tied to it.


* 2) Supply and install a mounting board for the electrical
equipment. *Needed? At the moment, it's all mounted to a structural
element of the pump house.

Depends on how whatever eqpt he's talking about is mounted
now. If it's securely fastened, then from what you've said,
I don't see the issue. If it's mounted half-assed, not secure,
no place to clamp wires, conduit, etc, then putting
it on a secure mounting is appropriate.



* 3) Install a twist-lock receptacle with in-use cover and a twist-
lock cord and plug for the pump? At the moment, the motor is hard-
wired to a switch. It is only disconnected when service is required.

Having it hard wired is how most of the ones I've seen are done.
There is no code reqt for a cord and plug, so I'd say that's
unnecessary and a waste of money.



*Why are these items needed? *The rest of his suggestions all make
obvious sense, so I have not listed them.

Did he include a GFCI for the pump? That is now required, as of
2008 NEC, I believe. Existing pumps are grandfathered, but
any time you're doing an improvement to the pump circuit
it would be required. And for the extra safety of having all
the pool eqpt on a GFCI I think it's well worth doing.

On May 19, 7:20*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2011 15:48:12 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On May 19, 4:51*pm, Ivan wrote:
* 3) Install a twist-lock receptacle with in-use cover and a twist-
lock cord and plug for the pump? At the moment, the motor is hard-
wired to a switch. It is only disconnected when service is required.

Having it hard wired is how most of the ones I've seen are done.
There is no code reqt for a cord and plug, so I'd say that's
unnecessary and a waste of money.

It is probably how he is providing the required disconnect.

He said it's currently wired to a switch. Provided the switch is
within direct view from the pump and only a short distance
away, doesn't that meet the reqt for a disconnect? If the
switch isn't within view of the pump and close by, then I
agree the plug could be a way to meet that reqt.

On May 19, 6:48*pm, "
wrote:
On May 19, 4:51*pm, Ivan wrote:

I've had problems with the pump circuit at my pool. The electrician
fixed that by bypassing some other stuff up there and says he won't do
any more unless I agree to let him bring the old wiring up to code.
From what I've seen of what the prior electrician did, he's right.
But I'm not sure everything he wants to do is necessary:
1) Bonding filter pump and heater to "the bonding bar in the
electrical equipment trough". Sounds good to me, but I don;'t think we
have a bonding bar or a trough.

Per code all the metal around the pool and pool equipment
has to be bonded together. *That includes metal pool ladders, pumps,
heaters, switch boxes, etc. * Not sure what he means by
the bonding bar in the electrical eqpt trough, but it sounds
like he's proposing to tie the bonded parts to some bonding
point already there. * Normally the pool ladder sockets
and the concrete surrounding the *pool are bonded together
with a wire that then runs over to the pool eqpt. *Then the
heater, pumps, etc are tied to it.

* 2) Supply and install a mounting board for the electrical
equipment. *Needed? At the moment, it's all mounted to a structural
element of the pump house.

Depends on how whatever eqpt he's talking about is mounted
now. *If it's securely fastened, then from what you've said,
I don't see the issue. *If it's mounted half-assed, not secure,
no place to clamp wires, conduit, etc, then putting
it on a secure mounting is appropriate.

* 3) Install a twist-lock receptacle with in-use cover and a twist-
lock cord and plug for the pump? At the moment, the motor is hard-
wired to a switch. It is only disconnected when service is required.

Having it hard wired is how most of the ones I've seen are done.
There is no code reqt for a cord and plug, so I'd say that's
unnecessary and a waste of money.



*Why are these items needed? *The rest of his suggestions all make
obvious sense, so I have not listed them.

Did he include a GFCI for the pump? * That is now required, as of
2008 NEC, *I believe. *Existing pumps are grandfathered, but
any time you're doing an improvement to the pump circuit
it would be required. *And for the extra safety of having all
the pool eqpt on a GFCI I think it's well worth doing.

The pool ladder is about 15 or 20 feet from the pump -- does it still
need to be bonded?

This circuit has a GFCI at the circuit breaker box inside the house.

On May 19, 7:43*pm, "
wrote:
On May 19, 7:20*pm, wrote:

On Thu, 19 May 2011 15:48:12 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On May 19, 4:51*pm, Ivan wrote:
* 3) Install a twist-lock receptacle with in-use cover and a twist-
lock cord and plug for the pump? At the moment, the motor is hard-
wired to a switch. It is only disconnected when service is required.

Having it hard wired is how most of the ones I've seen are done.
There is no code reqt for a cord and plug, so I'd say that's
unnecessary and a waste of money.

It is probably how he is providing the required disconnect.

He said it's currently wired to a switch. *Provided the switch is
within direct view from the pump and only a short distance
away, doesn't that meet the reqt for a disconnect? *If the
switch isn't within view of the pump and close by, then I
agree the plug could be a way to meet that reqt.

The switch is about a foot from the pump and within direct view. But
there is a second switch up at the pool deck, within earshot but not
eyeshot of the pump.

On May 19, 4:51*pm, Ivan wrote:
I've had problems with the pump circuit at my pool. The electrician
fixed that by bypassing some other stuff up there and says he won't do
any more unless I agree to let him bring the old wiring up to code.
From what I've seen of what the prior electrician did, he's right.
But I'm not sure everything he wants to do is necessary:
1) Bonding filter pump and heater to "the bonding bar in the
electrical equipment trough". Sounds good to me, but I don;'t think we
have a bonding bar or a trough.
* 2) Supply and install a mounting board for the electrical
equipment. *Needed? At the moment, it's all mounted to a structural
element of the pump house.
* 3) Install a twist-lock receptacle with in-use cover and a twist-
lock cord and plug for the pump? At the moment, the motor is hard-
wired to a switch. It is only disconnected when service is required.

*Why are these items needed? *The rest of his suggestions all make
obvious sense, so I have not listed them.

Dont know what the current setup is so impossible to guess..
Everything should be bonded together but there is more than one way to
skin a cat. Having everything clearly connected to a bonding bar is
great because whoever is working on it doesnt have to guess if this
equipment is safe to work on or not.... the ground connections will be
clearly visible The twist lock connection shouldnt be needed unless
there is not a disconnect present On mine the disconnect is the GFCI
breaker.and it is hardwired in. Next time I change a motor it will
probably get a plug installed.....hardwiring it where there is little
room to work is a PITA.

Jimmie

On May 19, 4:51*pm, Ivan wrote:
I've had problems with the pump circuit at my pool. The electrician
fixed that by bypassing some other stuff up there and says he won't do
any more unless I agree to let him bring the old wiring up to code.
From what I've seen of what the prior electrician did, he's right.
But I'm not sure everything he wants to do is necessary:
1) Bonding filter pump and heater to "the bonding bar in the
electrical equipment trough". Sounds good to me, but I don;'t think we
have a bonding bar or a trough.
* 2) Supply and install a mounting board for the electrical
equipment. *Needed? At the moment, it's all mounted to a structural
element of the pump house.
* 3) Install a twist-lock receptacle with in-use cover and a twist-
lock cord and plug for the pump? At the moment, the motor is hard-
wired to a switch. It is only disconnected when service is required.

*Why are these items needed? *The rest of his suggestions all make
obvious sense, so I have not listed them.

Sounds like he wants to clean up your pool electrical so that he
doesn't have to return to deal with it peice meal. Is he possibly a
little anal about how nice it really needs to be? Maybe. But would
you rather have that or just let some hack jury rig things from time
to time to keep it working? I do most of my own work but it sounds a
lot like he wants to do what I would probably do myself if I had a
pool.

"Ivan" wrote in message
...
On May 19, 6:48 pm, "
wrote:
On May 19, 4:51 pm, Ivan wrote:

I've had problems with the pump circuit at my pool. The electrician
fixed that by bypassing some other stuff up there and says he won't do
any more unless I agree to let him bring the old wiring up to code.
From what I've seen of what the prior electrician did, he's right.
But I'm not sure everything he wants to do is necessary:
1) Bonding filter pump and heater to "the bonding bar in the
electrical equipment trough". Sounds good to me, but I don;'t think we
have a bonding bar or a trough.

Per code all the metal around the pool and pool equipment
has to be bonded together. That includes metal pool ladders, pumps,
heaters, switch boxes, etc. Not sure what he means by
the bonding bar in the electrical eqpt trough, but it sounds
like he's proposing to tie the bonded parts to some bonding
point already there. Normally the pool ladder sockets
and the concrete surrounding the pool are bonded together
with a wire that then runs over to the pool eqpt. Then the
heater, pumps, etc are tied to it.

2) Supply and install a mounting board for the electrical
equipment. Needed? At the moment, it's all mounted to a structural
element of the pump house.

Depends on how whatever eqpt he's talking about is mounted
now. If it's securely fastened, then from what you've said,
I don't see the issue. If it's mounted half-assed, not secure,
no place to clamp wires, conduit, etc, then putting
it on a secure mounting is appropriate.

3) Install a twist-lock receptacle with in-use cover and a twist-
lock cord and plug for the pump? At the moment, the motor is hard-
wired to a switch. It is only disconnected when service is required.

Having it hard wired is how most of the ones I've seen are done.
There is no code reqt for a cord and plug, so I'd say that's
unnecessary and a waste of money.



Why are these items needed? The rest of his suggestions all make
obvious sense, so I have not listed them.

Did he include a GFCI for the pump? That is now required, as of
2008 NEC, I believe. Existing pumps are grandfathered, but
any time you're doing an improvement to the pump circuit
it would be required. And for the extra safety of having all
the pool eqpt on a GFCI I think it's well worth doing.

The pool ladder is about 15 or 20 feet from the pump -- does it still
need to be bonded?

EVERYTHING, metal that's associated with the pool must be bonded. The metal
sockets that the ladder sit in would (should) have been connected to a
bonding conductor when the pool was built

On May 20, 8:30*am, Ivan wrote:
On May 19, 7:43*pm, "
wrote:





On May 19, 7:20*pm, wrote:

On Thu, 19 May 2011 15:48:12 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On May 19, 4:51*pm, Ivan wrote:
* 3) Install a twist-lock receptacle with in-use cover and a twist-
lock cord and plug for the pump? At the moment, the motor is hard-
wired to a switch. It is only disconnected when service is required.

Having it hard wired is how most of the ones I've seen are done.
There is no code reqt for a cord and plug, so I'd say that's
unnecessary and a waste of money.

It is probably how he is providing the required disconnect.

He said it's currently wired to a switch. *Provided the switch is
within direct view from the pump and only a short distance
away, doesn't that meet the reqt for a disconnect? *If the
switch isn't within view of the pump and close by, then I
agree the plug could be a way to meet that reqt.

The switch is about a foot from the pump and within direct view. But
there is a second switch up at the pool deck, within earshot but not
eyeshot of the pump.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say depends on how the two switches are wired. If they are
in series, then the switch by the pump can serve as the disconnect.
If they are in parallel and either one can turn on the pump, then
the pump needs another disconnect means which could be
the proposed plug. Or the breaker panel could serve as the
disconnect if it's lockable.

On May 20, 6:56*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"Ivan" wrote in message

...
On May 19, 6:48 pm, "
wrote:





On May 19, 4:51 pm, Ivan wrote:

I've had problems with the pump circuit at my pool. The electrician
fixed that by bypassing some other stuff up there and says he won't do
any more unless I agree to let him bring the old wiring up to code.
From what I've seen of what the prior electrician did, he's right.
But I'm not sure everything he wants to do is necessary:
1) Bonding filter pump and heater to "the bonding bar in the
electrical equipment trough". Sounds good to me, but I don;'t think we
have a bonding bar or a trough.

Per code all the metal around the pool and pool equipment
has to be bonded together. That includes metal pool ladders, pumps,
heaters, switch boxes, etc. Not sure what he means by
the bonding bar in the electrical eqpt trough, but it sounds
like he's proposing to tie the bonded parts to some bonding
point already there. Normally the pool ladder sockets
and the concrete surrounding the pool are bonded together
with a wire that then runs over to the pool eqpt. Then the
heater, pumps, etc are tied to it.

2) Supply and install a mounting board for the electrical
equipment. Needed? At the moment, it's all mounted to a structural
element of the pump house.

Depends on how whatever eqpt he's talking about is mounted
now. If it's securely fastened, then from what you've said,
I don't see the issue. If it's mounted half-assed, not secure,
no place to clamp wires, conduit, etc, then putting
it on a secure mounting is appropriate.

3) Install a twist-lock receptacle with in-use cover and a twist-
lock cord and plug for the pump? At the moment, the motor is hard-
wired to a switch. It is only disconnected when service is required.

Having it hard wired is how most of the ones I've seen are done.
There is no code reqt for a cord and plug, so I'd say that's
unnecessary and a waste of money.

Why are these items needed? The rest of his suggestions all make
obvious sense, so I have not listed them.

Did he include a GFCI for the pump? That is now required, as of
2008 NEC, I believe. Existing pumps are grandfathered, but
any time you're doing an improvement to the pump circuit
it would be required. And for the extra safety of having all
the pool eqpt on a GFCI I think it's well worth doing.

The pool ladder is about 15 or 20 feet from the pump -- does it still
need to be bonded?

EVERYTHING, metal that's associated with the pool must be bonded. The metal
sockets that the ladder sit in would (should) have been connected to a
bonding conductor when the pool was built- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here's a diagram that shows how pool bonding should be done.

http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/LT1242.pdf

This is inline with current code. Depending when the pool was
installed, the reqts may have been more lenient and what is
there is grandfathered as long as it met the code then and you
aren't changing/improving that part of the pool.

Bonding is important. The basic idea is that you want everything
that's conductive around the pool to be connected togther so
that it's at the same potential. That way if you're the path
between any of those things, there is no opportunity for
current to flow through you. In particular, note that the
concrete pool deck has a bonding conductor in it too. That
way the concrete you're standing on with wet feet is at the
same potential as the pool ladder, fence, conduits, etc.

On May 21, 12:32*am, "
wrote:
On May 20, 6:56*pm, "RBM" wrote:









"Ivan" wrote in message

....
On May 19, 6:48 pm, "
wrote:

On May 19, 4:51 pm, Ivan wrote:

I've had problems with the pump circuit at my pool. The electrician
fixed that by bypassing some other stuff up there and says he won't do
any more unless I agree to let him bring the old wiring up to code.
From what I've seen of what the prior electrician did, he's right.
But I'm not sure everything he wants to do is necessary:
1) Bonding filter pump and heater to "the bonding bar in the
electrical equipment trough". Sounds good to me, but I don;'t think we
have a bonding bar or a trough.

Per code all the metal around the pool and pool equipment
has to be bonded together. That includes metal pool ladders, pumps,
heaters, switch boxes, etc. Not sure what he means by
the bonding bar in the electrical eqpt trough, but it sounds
like he's proposing to tie the bonded parts to some bonding
point already there. Normally the pool ladder sockets
and the concrete surrounding the pool are bonded together
with a wire that then runs over to the pool eqpt. Then the
heater, pumps, etc are tied to it.

2) Supply and install a mounting board for the electrical
equipment. Needed? At the moment, it's all mounted to a structural
element of the pump house.

Depends on how whatever eqpt he's talking about is mounted
now. If it's securely fastened, then from what you've said,
I don't see the issue. If it's mounted half-assed, not secure,
no place to clamp wires, conduit, etc, then putting
it on a secure mounting is appropriate.

3) Install a twist-lock receptacle with in-use cover and a twist-
lock cord and plug for the pump? At the moment, the motor is hard-
wired to a switch. It is only disconnected when service is required..

Having it hard wired is how most of the ones I've seen are done.
There is no code reqt for a cord and plug, so I'd say that's
unnecessary and a waste of money.

Why are these items needed? The rest of his suggestions all make
obvious sense, so I have not listed them.

Did he include a GFCI for the pump? That is now required, as of
2008 NEC, I believe. Existing pumps are grandfathered, but
any time you're doing an improvement to the pump circuit
it would be required. And for the extra safety of having all
the pool eqpt on a GFCI I think it's well worth doing.

The pool ladder is about 15 or 20 feet from the pump -- does it still
need to be bonded?

EVERYTHING, metal that's associated with the pool must be bonded. The metal
sockets that the ladder sit in would (should) have been connected to a
bonding conductor when the pool was built- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here's a diagram that shows how pool bonding should be done.

http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/LT1242.pdf

This is inline with current code. *Depending when the pool was
installed, the reqts may have been more lenient and what is
there is grandfathered as long as it met the code then and you
aren't changing/improving that part of the pool.

Bonding is important. *The basic idea is that you want everything
that's conductive around the pool to be connected togther so
that it's at the same potential. *That way if you're the path
between any of those things, there is no opportunity for
current to flow through you. * In particular, note that the
concrete pool deck has a bonding conductor in it too. *That
way the concrete you're standing on with wet feet is at the
same potential as the pool ladder, fence, conduits, etc.

The pool was here and showing signs of age when I moved in 17 years
ago, but goes back no further than 1958, when the house was built. I
don't know if there's a bonding conductor in the concrete. The piping
between the pump and the pool is all plastic, most of it recent. The
pool latter is held by metal cups mounted in the concrete. Those were
moved a foot or so last year, so if they were grounded to a conductor
in the concrete, they probably no longer are.

Near as I can tell, the secondary motor switch, up on the pool deck,
is in series with the original.