I have a circuit that keeps tripping the breaker. I can't find anything
wrong in the circuit. There is only a series of lights and a light sensor
to turn them on at night. One thing that seems to point me to the breaker
itself is that it buzzes when I reset it. It is also an extreeeeeeeeeeemly
old style breaker. Breakers shouldn't buzz, right?


Mike D.

On Feb 21, 11:47*am, Michael Dobony wrote:
I have a circuit that keeps tripping the breaker. I can't find anything
wrong in the circuit. There is only a series of lights and a light sensor
to turn them on at night. One thing that seems to point me to the breaker
itself is that it buzzes when I reset it. It is also an extreeeeeeeeeeemly
old style breaker. Breakers shouldn't buzz, right?

Mike D.

No, but I would measure the current draw on the leg.

greg

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have a circuit that keeps tripping the breaker. I can't find anything
wrong in the circuit. There is only a series of lights and a light sensor
to turn them on at night. One thing that seems to point me to the breaker
itself is that it buzzes when I reset it. It is also an extreeeeeeeeeeemly
old style breaker. Breakers shouldn't buzz, right?


Mike D.

They often buzz when there is a short of overload on them. It's possible
that you have a bad breaker, but more likely there's a problem on the
circuit.

I've heard breakers buzz, when they are over loaded. I'd
want to see if it's possible to trace that circuit, and open
it up at several points. Turn the breaker off, unwire all
the black wire nuts you can. See if the breaker buzzes. Kill
the power (breaker off) and reconnect the circuit, one wire
nut at a time. You can isolate where the problem is.

You can swap the breaker with another one, see if the other
breaker buzzes. But, from here, it sounds like something is
overloading the breaker.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Michael Dobony" wrote in
message ...
I have a circuit that keeps tripping the breaker. I can't
find anything
wrong in the circuit. There is only a series of lights and a
light sensor
to turn them on at night. One thing that seems to point me
to the breaker
itself is that it buzzes when I reset it. It is also an
extreeeeeeeeeeemly
old style breaker. Breakers shouldn't buzz, right?


Mike D.

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have a circuit that keeps tripping the breaker. I can't find anything
wrong in the circuit. There is only a series of lights and a light sensor
to turn them on at night. One thing that seems to point me to the breaker
itself is that it buzzes when I reset it. It is also an extreeeeeeeeeeemly
old style breaker. Breakers shouldn't buzz, right?


Mike D.

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of the
same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the breaker. If
the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the circuit.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have a circuit that keeps tripping the breaker. I can't find anything
wrong in the circuit. There is only a series of lights and a light sensor
to turn them on at night. One thing that seems to point me to the breaker
itself is that it buzzes when I reset it. It is also an extreeeeeeeeeeemly
old style breaker. Breakers shouldn't buzz, right?


Mike D.

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of the
same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the breaker. If
the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the circuit.

Or put an Amp meter on the circuit to see what the current is when the
breaker is tripping. Repeated trips can damage a breaker, so the breaker
should likely be replaced at this point.

On Feb 21, 11:47*am, Michael Dobony wrote:
I have a circuit that keeps tripping the breaker. I can't find anything
wrong in the circuit. There is only a series of lights and a light sensor
to turn them on at night. One thing that seems to point me to the breaker
itself is that it buzzes when I reset it. It is also an extreeeeeeeeeeemly
old style breaker. Breakers shouldn't buzz, right?

Mike D.


You have gotten some excellent advice on how to diagnose
this issue... Normally operating breakers shouldn't buzz...

The larger issue here is your "extreeeeeeeeeeemly old style
breaker" and this issue might just be the tip of the iceberg...
Circuit breakers and the panels they are installed in don't last
forever, this might be the first early warning that you should
consider planning to replace your entire electrical panel with
a new one in the next couple of years...

Good luck...

~~ Evan

On Feb 21, 12:17*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"Michael Dobony" wrote in message

...

I have a circuit that keeps tripping the breaker. I can't find anything
wrong in the circuit. There is only a series of lights and a light sensor
to turn them on at night. One thing that seems to point me to the breaker
itself is that it buzzes when I reset it. It is also an extreeeeeeeeeeemly
old style breaker. Breakers shouldn't buzz, right?

Mike D.

They often buzz when there is a short of overload on them. It's possible
that you have a bad breaker, but more likely there's a problem on the
circuit.

I had one that buzzed constantly... turns out the screw that
tightened down on the wire apparently was binding and while it was
torqued "to spec" it wasn't tight on the wire. Sitting there buzzing
for a while apparently loosened it up and when I went back into the
panel to do something else I found the screw loose. Tightened it,
buzz gone. Was a new Siemens brand AFCI breaker.

nate

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral. If you don't understand the concept, get help.

On 2/21/2011 3:53 PM Bob spake thus:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral. If you don't understand the concept, get help.

Already covered by the phrase "of the same capacity" above. Seems clear
enough to me.


--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago.

- Usenet

Bob wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral. If you don't understand the concept, get help.

"Overload the neutral"??? That is not possible unless the service was
installed with an undersized neutral, which wouldn't be to code.

You can certainly unbalance the load between the two hot legs by moving
things around, however balance is of no consequence in a residential
application, the neutral can handle the full current rating of the hot
service conductors and the loads of the two hot legs are not additive in
the neutral.

It's also all but impossible to rearrange circuits to overload one leg
in a residential application since virtually all large residential loads
are 240V and thus balanced no mater where you move their two pole
breakers in the panel.

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:53:22 -0800, Bob wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral.

How?

If you don't understand the concept, get help.

Do tell.

On 2/21/2011 4:43 PM Pete C. spake thus:

Bob wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral. If you don't understand the concept, get help.

"Overload the neutral"??? That is not possible unless the service was
installed with an undersized neutral, which wouldn't be to code.

Welll, it *would* be possible, say if you connected a 14 ga. hot wire to
a 20A breaker, which could overload both the hot and neutral on that
circuit (by ~ 5A). But other than that, no, you're correct.


--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago.

- Usenet

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:53:22 -0800, Bob wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral.

How?

If you don't understand the concept, get help.

Do tell.



In the event that this particular circuit is part of a multiwire branch
circuit, or Edison circuit, it will be sharing it's neutral with another
circuit breaker served by the other leg of the service. If the OP
unknowingly switches this circuit with a breaker that is not on a leg of the
same potential, he will have two circuits of the same potential sharing the
neutral, which can cause an overload to the neutral.

"Metspitzer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:30:51 -0600, Michael Dobony
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:30:34 -0500, RBM wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:53:22 -0800, Bob wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another
of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral.

How?

If you don't understand the concept, get help.

Do tell.



In the event that this particular circuit is part of a multiwire branch
circuit, or Edison circuit, it will be sharing it's neutral with another
circuit breaker served by the other leg of the service. If the OP
unknowingly switches this circuit with a breaker that is not on a leg of
the
same potential, he will have two circuits of the same potential sharing
the
neutral, which can cause an overload to the neutral.

Not possible to swap phases on this ancient beast. All the circuits on one
side of the breaker box are on a single phase with the other side on
another phase.

If all the circuits on one side are on the same phase, how would you
get 240V?

The double pole breakers bridge both sides of the panel. Google double
pole pushmatic breaker

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:36:33 -0500, "RBM" wrote:


"Metspitzer" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:30:51 -0600, Michael Dobony
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:30:34 -0500, RBM wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:53:22 -0800, Bob wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another
of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral.

How?

If you don't understand the concept, get help.

Do tell.



In the event that this particular circuit is part of a multiwire branch
circuit, or Edison circuit, it will be sharing it's neutral with another
circuit breaker served by the other leg of the service. If the OP
unknowingly switches this circuit with a breaker that is not on a leg of
the
same potential, he will have two circuits of the same potential sharing
the
neutral, which can cause an overload to the neutral.

Not possible to swap phases on this ancient beast. All the circuits on one
side of the breaker box are on a single phase with the other side on
another phase.

If all the circuits on one side are on the same phase, how would you
get 240V?

The double pole breakers bridge both sides of the panel. Google double
pole pushmatic breaker

I have been to two world's fairs and seen a one legged man in a ass
kicking contest, but have never heard of such.

"Metspitzer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:36:33 -0500, "RBM" wrote:


"Metspitzer" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:30:51 -0600, Michael Dobony
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:30:34 -0500, RBM wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:53:22 -0800, Bob wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to
another
of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is
the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't
overload
the neutral.

How?

If you don't understand the concept, get help.

Do tell.



In the event that this particular circuit is part of a multiwire
branch
circuit, or Edison circuit, it will be sharing it's neutral with
another
circuit breaker served by the other leg of the service. If the OP
unknowingly switches this circuit with a breaker that is not on a leg
of
the
same potential, he will have two circuits of the same potential
sharing
the
neutral, which can cause an overload to the neutral.

Not possible to swap phases on this ancient beast. All the circuits on
one
side of the breaker box are on a single phase with the other side on
another phase.

If all the circuits on one side are on the same phase, how would you
get 240V?

The double pole breakers bridge both sides of the panel. Google double
pole pushmatic breaker

I have been to two world's fairs and seen a one legged man in a ass
kicking contest, but have never heard of such.

Another similar design is Zinsco. Unlike the bolt on Pushmatic, the
Zinsco has spring clips similar to "real" circuit breakers

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 18:05:27 -0500, RBM wrote:

"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:30:34 -0500, RBM wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:53:22 -0800, Bob wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another
of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral.

How?

If you don't understand the concept, get help.

Do tell.



In the event that this particular circuit is part of a multiwire branch
circuit, or Edison circuit, it will be sharing it's neutral with another
circuit breaker served by the other leg of the service. If the OP
unknowingly switches this circuit with a breaker that is not on a leg of
the
same potential, he will have two circuits of the same potential sharing
the
neutral, which can cause an overload to the neutral.

Not possible to swap phases on this ancient beast. All the circuits on one
side of the breaker box are on a single phase with the other side on
another phase.

I swapped out breakers from another unused box to check. So far, no
tripped
breaker.

You must have a pushmatic or zinsco panel then. You apparently do understand
what Bob was referring to as well.

Pushmatic

my neighbor had a killer griswald like christmas light display. he
asked for help with main breaker tripping 200 amp main.

me and my trusty clamp on ampmeter found it fast the main was
unbalanced.. a few minor changes and all was well.......

so you can unbalance things on a residential service, but it does
require effort

And how many Edison circuits did you knock out of phase in the process?-

none, he had far more current draw on one side of the 120 than the
other.

after moving some to the other side things were balanced again and no
more tripped breakers.

he had another whats going on moment, he bought a new large 240 volt
compressor from harbor freight but couldnt get it to run.

he asked me to take a look, i said move the dual breaker so it gets
240 volts.

he was thrilled i had the solution.

of course i had done the exact same mistake years ago when i got my
compressor...

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:30:51 -0600, Michael Dobony wrote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:30:34 -0500, RBM wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:53:22 -0800, Bob wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral.

How?

If you don't understand the concept, get help.

Do tell.



In the event that this particular circuit is part of a multiwire branch
circuit, or Edison circuit, it will be sharing it's neutral with another
circuit breaker served by the other leg of the service. If the OP
unknowingly switches this circuit with a breaker that is not on a leg of the
same potential, he will have two circuits of the same potential sharing the
neutral, which can cause an overload to the neutral.

Not possible to swap phases on this ancient beast. All the circuits on one
side of the breaker box are on a single phase with the other side on
another phase.

I swapped out breakers from another unused box to check. So far, no tripped
breaker.

Well, it tripped tonight. I reset it and it is still on. Will check in the
morning to see if it stayed on all night. As far as we can determine only
the one set of outdoor security lights are on that circuit. Nothing else
seems to be off when it trips. It has a new light sensor on it, so probably
not the culprit. Only 5 bulbs on the run.

On 02/22/2011 11:33 PM, Michael Dobony wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:30:51 -0600, Michael Dobony wrote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:30:34 -0500, RBM wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:53:22 -0800, wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral.

How?

If you don't understand the concept, get help.

Do tell.



In the event that this particular circuit is part of a multiwire branch
circuit, or Edison circuit, it will be sharing it's neutral with another
circuit breaker served by the other leg of the service. If the OP
unknowingly switches this circuit with a breaker that is not on a leg of the
same potential, he will have two circuits of the same potential sharing the
neutral, which can cause an overload to the neutral.

Not possible to swap phases on this ancient beast. All the circuits on one
side of the breaker box are on a single phase with the other side on
another phase.

I swapped out breakers from another unused box to check. So far, no tripped
breaker.

Well, it tripped tonight. I reset it and it is still on. Will check in the
morning to see if it stayed on all night. As far as we can determine only
the one set of outdoor security lights are on that circuit. Nothing else
seems to be off when it trips. It has a new light sensor on it, so probably
not the culprit. Only 5 bulbs on the run.

Do you have an ammeter?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:00:58 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:

On 02/22/2011 11:33 PM, Michael Dobony wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:30:51 -0600, Michael Dobony wrote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:30:34 -0500, RBM wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:53:22 -0800, wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral.

How?

If you don't understand the concept, get help.

Do tell.



In the event that this particular circuit is part of a multiwire branch
circuit, or Edison circuit, it will be sharing it's neutral with another
circuit breaker served by the other leg of the service. If the OP
unknowingly switches this circuit with a breaker that is not on a leg of the
same potential, he will have two circuits of the same potential sharing the
neutral, which can cause an overload to the neutral.

Not possible to swap phases on this ancient beast. All the circuits on one
side of the breaker box are on a single phase with the other side on
another phase.

I swapped out breakers from another unused box to check. So far, no tripped
breaker.

Well, it tripped tonight. I reset it and it is still on. Will check in the
morning to see if it stayed on all night. As far as we can determine only
the one set of outdoor security lights are on that circuit. Nothing else
seems to be off when it trips. It has a new light sensor on it, so probably
not the culprit. Only 5 bulbs on the run.

Do you have an ammeter?

nate

I have a clamp-on ampmeter

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:00:58 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:

On 02/22/2011 11:33 PM, Michael Dobony wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:30:51 -0600, Michael Dobony wrote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:30:34 -0500, RBM wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:53:22 -0800, wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral.

How?

If you don't understand the concept, get help.

Do tell.



In the event that this particular circuit is part of a multiwire branch
circuit, or Edison circuit, it will be sharing it's neutral with another
circuit breaker served by the other leg of the service. If the OP
unknowingly switches this circuit with a breaker that is not on a leg of the
same potential, he will have two circuits of the same potential sharing the
neutral, which can cause an overload to the neutral.

Not possible to swap phases on this ancient beast. All the circuits on one
side of the breaker box are on a single phase with the other side on
another phase.

I swapped out breakers from another unused box to check. So far, no tripped
breaker.

Well, it tripped tonight. I reset it and it is still on. Will check in the
morning to see if it stayed on all night. As far as we can determine only
the one set of outdoor security lights are on that circuit. Nothing else
seems to be off when it trips. It has a new light sensor on it, so probably
not the culprit. Only 5 bulbs on the run.

Do you have an ammeter?

nate

With the lights off it is pulling 12 amps. 5 lights at 100 watts each (I
think there are 75's in all the sockets) that is only a little over 4
watts. That gives me 4 amps excess capacity. I have no idea what is pulling
those 12 amps.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 13:42:53 -0600, Michael Dobony
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:00:58 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:

On 02/22/2011 11:33 PM, Michael Dobony wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:30:51 -0600, Michael Dobony wrote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:30:34 -0500, RBM wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:53:22 -0800, wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of
the same capacity. If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral.

How?

If you don't understand the concept, get help.

Do tell.



In the event that this particular circuit is part of a multiwire branch
circuit, or Edison circuit, it will be sharing it's neutral with another
circuit breaker served by the other leg of the service. If the OP
unknowingly switches this circuit with a breaker that is not on a leg of the
same potential, he will have two circuits of the same potential sharing the
neutral, which can cause an overload to the neutral.

Not possible to swap phases on this ancient beast. All the circuits on one
side of the breaker box are on a single phase with the other side on
another phase.

I swapped out breakers from another unused box to check. So far, no tripped
breaker.

Well, it tripped tonight. I reset it and it is still on. Will check in the
morning to see if it stayed on all night. As far as we can determine only
the one set of outdoor security lights are on that circuit. Nothing else
seems to be off when it trips. It has a new light sensor on it, so probably
not the culprit. Only 5 bulbs on the run.

Do you have an ammeter?

nate

With the lights off it is pulling 12 amps. 5 lights at 100 watts each (I
think there are 75's in all the sockets) that is only a little over 4
watts. That gives me 4 amps excess capacity. I have no idea what is pulling
those 12 amps.

Leave the breaker off for a few days. You will find out what the 12
amps are going to.

On Feb 23, 2:42*pm, Michael Dobony wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:00:58 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 02/22/2011 11:33 PM, Michael Dobony wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:30:51 -0600, Michael Dobony wrote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:30:34 -0500, RBM wrote:

*wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:53:22 -0800, *wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of
the same capacity. *If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. *If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral.

How?

If you don't understand the concept, get help.

Do tell.

In the event that this particular circuit is part of a multiwire branch
circuit, or Edison circuit, it will be sharing it's neutral with another
circuit breaker served by the other leg of the service. If the OP
unknowingly switches this circuit with a breaker that is not on a leg of the
same potential, he will have two circuits of the same potential sharing the
neutral, which can cause an overload to the neutral.

Not possible to swap phases on this ancient beast. All the circuits on one
side of the breaker box are on a single phase with the other side on
another phase.

I swapped out breakers from another unused box to check. So far, no tripped
breaker.

Well, it tripped tonight. I reset it and it is still on. Will check in the
morning to see if it stayed on all night. As far as we can determine only
the one set of outdoor security lights are on that circuit. Nothing else
seems to be off when it trips. It has a new light sensor on it, so probably
not the culprit. Only 5 bulbs on the run.

Do you have an ammeter?

nate

With the lights off it is pulling 12 amps. 5 lights at 100 watts each (I
think there are 75's in all the sockets) that is only a little over 4
watts. That gives me 4 amps excess capacity. I have no idea what is pulling
those 12 amps.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

no, 5 lights @ 100W is 500W divided by 120V is 4.2A so if with the
lights off you are already pulling 12A that puts you over 15A (or is
this a 20A breaker? I forget.) You ought to be able to neglect
photocell switches etc. as they draw next to no current. Something is
putting a load on that circuit. leave the breaker off; time to start
checking to see what doesn't work... I dunno how accurate a clamp
meter is anyway, I have no experience with them. But if the lights
are the only thing on the ckt. and you're drawing noticeable current
w/ lights off... summat ain't right.

If nothing else, if it is some kind of fault (partially shorted
photocell switch or something) that is causing the 12A draw, you want
to fix it so you're not paying for wasted electricity...

What happens if you pull the photocell and disconnect the wires
there? Still have draw?

nate

On Feb 23, 2:42*pm, Michael Dobony wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:00:58 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 02/22/2011 11:33 PM, Michael Dobony wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:30:51 -0600, Michael Dobony wrote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:30:34 -0500, RBM wrote:

*wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:53:22 -0800, *wrote:

On 2/21/2011 10:15, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

One way to find out is to change the wire from one breaker to another of
the same capacity. *If the swapped breaker still trips, it is the
breaker. *If the breaker the line was swapped to trips it, it is the
circuit.

Before swapping wires around you need to ensure that you don't overload
the neutral.

How?

If you don't understand the concept, get help.

Do tell.

In the event that this particular circuit is part of a multiwire branch
circuit, or Edison circuit, it will be sharing it's neutral with another
circuit breaker served by the other leg of the service. If the OP
unknowingly switches this circuit with a breaker that is not on a leg of the
same potential, he will have two circuits of the same potential sharing the
neutral, which can cause an overload to the neutral.

Not possible to swap phases on this ancient beast. All the circuits on one
side of the breaker box are on a single phase with the other side on
another phase.

I swapped out breakers from another unused box to check. So far, no tripped
breaker.

Well, it tripped tonight. I reset it and it is still on. Will check in the
morning to see if it stayed on all night. As far as we can determine only
the one set of outdoor security lights are on that circuit. Nothing else
seems to be off when it trips. It has a new light sensor on it, so probably
not the culprit. Only 5 bulbs on the run.

Do you have an ammeter?

nate

With the lights off it is pulling 12 amps. 5 lights at 100 watts each (I
think there are 75's in all the sockets) that is only a little over 4
watts. That gives me 4 amps excess capacity. I have no idea what is pulling
those 12 amps.


If that is the case you need to open up the circuit at the points
you know about and make similar measurements at those
places... Your circuit has additional load on it and you must
figure out what it is...

Can you trace any exposed wiring to see if there is a junction
box where it is tapped ?

~~ Evan

Michael Dobony wrote:

With the lights off it is pulling 12 amps. 5 lights at 100 watts each
(I think there are 75's in all the sockets) that is only a little
over 4 watts. That gives me 4 amps excess capacity.


I have no idea
what is pulling those 12 amps.

My money's on a neighbor.

On 2/21/2011 11:47 AM, Michael Dobony wrote:
I have a circuit that keeps tripping the breaker. I can't find anything
wrong in the circuit. There is only a series of lights and a light sensor
to turn them on at night. One thing that seems to point me to the breaker
itself is that it buzzes when I reset it. It is also an extreeeeeeeeeeemly
old style breaker. Breakers shouldn't buzz, right?


Mike D.

My breaker or panel in the garage buzzes when I turn on the fluorescent
lights. Twelve 2 bulb 32 watt fixtures on three switches. For each row
of lights I turn on, the buzzing gets a little louder. Although at it's
loudest, it's not that easy to hear but once I noticed it, I hear it.
My breaker doesn't trip.

HeyBub wrote:

Michael Dobony wrote:

With the lights off it is pulling 12 amps. 5 lights at 100 watts each
(I think there are 75's in all the sockets) that is only a little
over 4 watts. That gives me 4 amps excess capacity.

I have no idea
what is pulling those 12 amps.

My money's on a neighbor.

12A is a *lot*, 1,440W and likely about $0.17/hr or better than $120/mo
if it's a continuous load. Certainly a load that large shouldn't be
difficult to track down.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 19:55:26 -0600, Pete C. wrote:

HeyBub wrote:

Michael Dobony wrote:

With the lights off it is pulling 12 amps. 5 lights at 100 watts each
(I think there are 75's in all the sockets) that is only a little
over 4 watts. That gives me 4 amps excess capacity.

I have no idea
what is pulling those 12 amps.

My money's on a neighbor.

12A is a *lot*, 1,440W and likely about $0.17/hr or better than $120/mo
if it's a continuous load. Certainly a load that large shouldn't be
difficult to track down.

You would be surprised. It is totally impossible to get to all the outlets
in one room. Will run a trace on it tomorrow.

On Feb 23, 8:46*pm, Michael Dobony wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 19:55:26 -0600, Pete C. wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

Michael Dobony wrote:

With the lights off it is pulling 12 amps. 5 lights at 100 watts each
(I think there are 75's in all the sockets) that is only a little
over 4 watts. That gives me 4 amps excess capacity.

I have no idea
what is pulling those 12 amps.

My money's on a neighbor.

12A is a *lot*, 1,440W and likely about $0.17/hr or better than $120/mo
if it's a continuous load. Certainly a load that large shouldn't be
difficult to track down.

You would be surprised. It is totally impossible to get to all the outlets
in one room. Will run a trace on it tomorrow.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, something dissipating 1440 watts should be geting hot. An
electric iron only draws about 12 amps/1440 watts, so image something
getting that hot somewhere in your walls??? To check your meter, puit
it on a circuit with no load, then turn on some known light loads on
that circuit, and see if the meter agrees. Once you are sure of the
meter, then you have to try to find the closest point on the line in
question and open it.

So, turn the breaker off, and see what, or who, complains.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Michael Dobony" wrote in
message ...

12A is a *lot*, 1,440W and likely about $0.17/hr or better
than $120/mo
if it's a continuous load. Certainly a load that large
shouldn't be
difficult to track down.

You would be surprised. It is totally impossible to get to
all the outlets
in one room. Will run a trace on it tomorrow.

Good morning all:

Just a thought......depending on where you live.........mabey a heat tape on
a water pipe somewhere? check for EXTERIOR heaters roof, pipes, the line
running to you engine block heater...
While I live in sunny southeren Calif, I ran into something similar at a
family members house in Canada years back. The breaker would only blow
overnight when the temp got gawd-awful low.

I could be wrong, I have lots of practice at being wrong.

Herb Harrison


"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have a circuit that keeps tripping the breaker. I can't find anything
wrong in the circuit. There is only a series of lights and a light sensor
to turn them on at night. One thing that seems to point me to the breaker
itself is that it buzzes when I reset it. It is also an extreeeeeeeeeeemly
old style breaker. Breakers shouldn't buzz, right?


Mike D.

On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 07:53:13 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

So, turn the breaker off, and see what, or who, complains.

Nobody complained when the breaker was off before. Why would that be any
different this time?

On Feb 25, 11:15*am, Michael Dobony wrote:
On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 07:53:13 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:
So, turn the breaker off, and see what, or who, complains.

Nobody complained when the breaker was off before. Why would that be any
different this time?

you need to know what that breaker is powering. perhaps a hot water
recirculating pump or point of use water heater

if you have lived there for awhile without a problem whatever that
breaker is powering has a problem and might be a fire hazard.

i would rig a work around on stuff your using till i find out what the
mystery load is........

it might be a fire hazard and in any case is running up your electric
bill