I am putting a full bath in a basement level apartment. The basement has a
concrete floor, and center line of the horizontal 4-inch PVC sewer line that
runs out to the street is about 8 inches above the concrete floor.

One of the approaches I am thinking of using is something like the following
Saniflo upflush system:

http://www.saniflo.com/SANIPLUS.aspx .

The washer/dryer and the sink are no problem because the drains for those
two are above the existing horizontal sewer line, so those drains can be
connected directly to the sewer line. That leaves the full bathtub and the
toilet.

If I use the Saniflo system shown above, the drain from the tub will have to
tie into the bottom of the Saniflo device. I think that will mean that the
tub will have to be placed on a raised platform -- maybe 3 inches or so --
to enable the tub to have a trap and to drain into the bottom of the
Saniflo.

But, one question I have about this type of Saniflo is how can the drain go
directly into the side of the Saniflo tank at the bottom of the tank? Can
it pump out the water down to a depth inside the tank of just a 1/2 inch to
1 inch?

Also, would another option for the toilet be to get one that flushes out the
back (like the one shown in the link above) but have it flush directly into
the drain? That way, the pump system wouldn't have to grind and pump toilet
sewage. Meanwhile, the pump system could then just be used to pump the
water draining from the tub and not toilet sewage.

Any thoughts, suggestions or experiences regarding these options would be
appreciated.

Thanks.

P.S. I could break out the concrete basement floor fairly easily and put a
below-grade pumping system in if such a system exists, and if that would be
a better approach.

RogerT wrote:

I am putting a full bath in a basement level apartment. The basement has a
concrete floor, and center line of the horizontal 4-inch PVC sewer line that
runs out to the street is about 8 inches above the concrete floor.

One of the approaches I am thinking of using is something like the following
Saniflo upflush system:

http://www.saniflo.com/SANIPLUS.aspx .

The washer/dryer and the sink are no problem because the drains for those
two are above the existing horizontal sewer line, so those drains can be
connected directly to the sewer line. That leaves the full bathtub and the
toilet.

If I use the Saniflo system shown above, the drain from the tub will have to
tie into the bottom of the Saniflo device. I think that will mean that the
tub will have to be placed on a raised platform -- maybe 3 inches or so --
to enable the tub to have a trap and to drain into the bottom of the
Saniflo.

But, one question I have about this type of Saniflo is how can the drain go
directly into the side of the Saniflo tank at the bottom of the tank? Can
it pump out the water down to a depth inside the tank of just a 1/2 inch to
1 inch?

Also, would another option for the toilet be to get one that flushes out the
back (like the one shown in the link above) but have it flush directly into
the drain? That way, the pump system wouldn't have to grind and pump toilet
sewage. Meanwhile, the pump system could then just be used to pump the
water draining from the tub and not toilet sewage.

Any thoughts, suggestions or experiences regarding these options would be
appreciated.

Thanks.

P.S. I could break out the concrete basement floor fairly easily and put a
below-grade pumping system in if such a system exists, and if that would be
a better approach.

Your p.s. is the best solution. Such pump systems do indeed exist and
installation is pretty easy. These systems allow you to use normal
fixtures, not need raised platforms, and use normal gravity drains into
the below grade pump chamber. You will need to cut out a section of the
floor and dig down enough to install the tank with it's access cover
flush with the floor, and you will need to trench the pump output, vent
and electrical.

On Jan 25, 4:20*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
RogerT wrote:

I am putting a full bath in a basement level apartment. *The basement has a
concrete floor, and center line of the horizontal 4-inch PVC sewer line that
runs out to the street is about 8 inches above the concrete floor.

One of the approaches I am thinking of using is something like the following
Saniflo upflush system:

http://www.saniflo.com/SANIPLUS.aspx.

The washer/dryer and the sink are no problem because the drains for those
two are above the existing horizontal sewer line, so those drains can be
connected directly to the sewer line. *That leaves the full bathtub and the
toilet.

If I use the Saniflo system shown above, the drain from the tub will have to
tie into the bottom of the Saniflo device. *I think that will mean that the
tub will have to be placed on a raised platform -- maybe 3 inches or so --
to enable the tub to have a trap and to drain into the bottom of the
Saniflo.

But, one question I have about this type of Saniflo is how can the drain go
directly into the side of the Saniflo tank at the bottom of the tank? *Can
it pump out the water down to a depth inside the tank of just a 1/2 inch to
1 inch?

Also, would another option for the toilet be to get one that flushes out the
back (like the one shown in the link above) but have it flush directly into
the drain? *That way, the pump system wouldn't have to grind and pump toilet
sewage. *Meanwhile, the pump system could then just be used to pump the
water draining from the tub and not toilet sewage.

Any thoughts, suggestions or experiences regarding these options would be
appreciated.

Thanks.

P.S. *I could break out the concrete basement floor fairly easily and put a
below-grade pumping system in if such a system exists, and if that would be
a better approach.

Your p.s. is the best solution. Such pump systems do indeed exist and
installation is pretty easy. These systems allow you to use normal
fixtures, not need raised platforms, and use normal gravity drains into
the below grade pump chamber. You will need to cut out a section of the
floor and dig down enough to install the tank with it's access cover
flush with the floor, and you will need to trench the pump output, vent
and electrical.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Do you have any names or links for such a system?

On Jan 25, 5:31*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Jan 25, 4:20*pm, "Pete C." wrote:



RogerT wrote:

I am putting a full bath in a basement level apartment. *The basement has a
concrete floor, and center line of the horizontal 4-inch PVC sewer line that
runs out to the street is about 8 inches above the concrete floor.

One of the approaches I am thinking of using is something like the following
Saniflo upflush system:

http://www.saniflo.com/SANIPLUS.aspx.

The washer/dryer and the sink are no problem because the drains for those
two are above the existing horizontal sewer line, so those drains can be
connected directly to the sewer line. *That leaves the full bathtub and the
toilet.

If I use the Saniflo system shown above, the drain from the tub will have to
tie into the bottom of the Saniflo device. *I think that will mean that the
tub will have to be placed on a raised platform -- maybe 3 inches or so --
to enable the tub to have a trap and to drain into the bottom of the
Saniflo.

But, one question I have about this type of Saniflo is how can the drain go
directly into the side of the Saniflo tank at the bottom of the tank? *Can
it pump out the water down to a depth inside the tank of just a 1/2 inch to
1 inch?

Also, would another option for the toilet be to get one that flushes out the
back (like the one shown in the link above) but have it flush directly into
the drain? *That way, the pump system wouldn't have to grind and pump toilet
sewage. *Meanwhile, the pump system could then just be used to pump the
water draining from the tub and not toilet sewage.

Any thoughts, suggestions or experiences regarding these options would be
appreciated.

Thanks.

P.S. *I could break out the concrete basement floor fairly easily and put a
below-grade pumping system in if such a system exists, and if that would be
a better approach.

Your p.s. is the best solution. Such pump systems do indeed exist and
installation is pretty easy. These systems allow you to use normal
fixtures, not need raised platforms, and use normal gravity drains into
the below grade pump chamber. You will need to cut out a section of the
floor and dig down enough to install the tank with it's access cover
flush with the floor, and you will need to trench the pump output, vent
and electrical.

Do you have any names or links for such a system?

Macerator or sewage ejector.

R

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:31:00 -0800 (PST), "hr(bob) "
wrote:

On Jan 25, 4:20Â*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
RogerT wrote:

I am putting a full bath in a basement level apartment. Â*The basement has a
concrete floor, and center line of the horizontal 4-inch PVC sewer line that
runs out to the street is about 8 inches above the concrete floor.

One of the approaches I am thinking of using is something like the following
Saniflo upflush system:

http://www.saniflo.com/SANIPLUS.aspx.

The washer/dryer and the sink are no problem because the drains for those
two are above the existing horizontal sewer line, so those drains can be
connected directly to the sewer line. Â*That leaves the full bathtub and the
toilet.

If I use the Saniflo system shown above, the drain from the tub will have to
tie into the bottom of the Saniflo device. Â*I think that will mean that the
tub will have to be placed on a raised platform -- maybe 3 inches or so --
to enable the tub to have a trap and to drain into the bottom of the
Saniflo.

But, one question I have about this type of Saniflo is how can the drain go
directly into the side of the Saniflo tank at the bottom of the tank? Â*Can
it pump out the water down to a depth inside the tank of just a 1/2 inch to
1 inch?

Also, would another option for the toilet be to get one that flushes out the
back (like the one shown in the link above) but have it flush directly into
the drain? Â*That way, the pump system wouldn't have to grind and pump toilet
sewage. Â*Meanwhile, the pump system could then just be used to pump the
water draining from the tub and not toilet sewage.

Any thoughts, suggestions or experiences regarding these options would be
appreciated.

Thanks.

P.S. Â*I could break out the concrete basement floor fairly easily and put a
below-grade pumping system in if such a system exists, and if that would be
a better approach.

Your p.s. is the best solution. Such pump systems do indeed exist and
installation is pretty easy. These systems allow you to use normal
fixtures, not need raised platforms, and use normal gravity drains into
the below grade pump chamber. You will need to cut out a section of the
floor and dig down enough to install the tank with it's access cover
flush with the floor, and you will need to trench the pump output, vent
and electrical.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Do you have any names or links for such a system?

I have this.
http://www.tramcopump.com/Residentia....cfm?ProdID=26

Might be overkill for your needs.
The original owners put it in in 1961 when they got sewage in the
basement during a storm.
All my house drains lead to it, but you wouldn't want that.
Suggest you ask the local plumbers.
Mine is from a local company, but I had to search for a plumber that
knew the system since there aren't many such systems installed.
But I found a guy who knew them well.
Pump went out. Only lasted 47 years.
But it cost me $2100 to get pump/motot assembly replaced.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:31:00 -0800 (PST), "hr(bob) "
wrote:

On Jan 25, 4:20Â pm, "Pete C." wrote:
RogerT wrote:

I am putting a full bath in a basement level apartment. Â The basement has a
concrete floor, and center line of the horizontal 4-inch PVC sewer line that
runs out to the street is about 8 inches above the concrete floor.

One of the approaches I am thinking of using is something like the following
Saniflo upflush system:

http://www.saniflo.com/SANIPLUS.aspx.

The washer/dryer and the sink are no problem because the drains for those
two are above the existing horizontal sewer line, so those drains can be
connected directly to the sewer line. Â That leaves the full bathtub and the
toilet.

If I use the Saniflo system shown above, the drain from the tub will have to
tie into the bottom of the Saniflo device. Â I think that will mean that the
tub will have to be placed on a raised platform -- maybe 3 inches or so --
to enable the tub to have a trap and to drain into the bottom of the
Saniflo.

But, one question I have about this type of Saniflo is how can the drain go
directly into the side of the Saniflo tank at the bottom of the tank? Â Can
it pump out the water down to a depth inside the tank of just a 1/2 inch to
1 inch?

Also, would another option for the toilet be to get one that flushes out the
back (like the one shown in the link above) but have it flush directly into
the drain? Â That way, the pump system wouldn't have to grind and pump toilet
sewage. Â Meanwhile, the pump system could then just be used to pump the
water draining from the tub and not toilet sewage.

Any thoughts, suggestions or experiences regarding these options would be
appreciated.

Thanks.

P.S. Â I could break out the concrete basement floor fairly easily and put a
below-grade pumping system in if such a system exists, and if that would be
a better approach.

Your p.s. is the best solution. Such pump systems do indeed exist and
installation is pretty easy. These systems allow you to use normal
fixtures, not need raised platforms, and use normal gravity drains into
the below grade pump chamber. You will need to cut out a section of the
floor and dig down enough to install the tank with it's access cover
flush with the floor, and you will need to trench the pump output, vent
and electrical.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Do you have any names or links for such a system?

I have this.
http://www.tramcopump.com/Residentia....cfm?ProdID=26

Might be overkill for your needs.
The original owners put it in in 1961 when they got sewage in the
basement during a storm.
All my house drains lead to it, but you wouldn't want that.
Suggest you ask the local plumbers.
Mine is from a local company, but I had to search for a plumber that
knew the system since there aren't many such systems installed.
But I found a guy who knew them well.
Pump went out. Only lasted 47 years.
But it cost me $2100 to get pump/motot assembly replaced.

--Vic

~$45/yr, that seems an acceptable maintenance cost.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 20:25:46 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Pump went out. Only lasted 47 years.
But it cost me $2100 to get pump/motot assembly replaced.

~$45/yr, that seems an acceptable maintenance cost.

No choice anyway, since putting that in was major sewer line work, and
it would be the same to restore it back to original gravity.
Must have cost an arm and a leg to get it installed.
Personally I'd rather not have it. Just something else to go wrong.
And electricity costs too.
Rather clean up some **** every 30 or 40 years.
But that's easy for me to say since I never had to.
The original owners did, and it was their call.
Something about pumping out every drain in the house when there's
gravity for that just rubs me the wrong way.
Sanitary lines here are deep.
Only way for sewer water to get in the house on the rare occasions of
back up is the basement floor drain.
I would have just addressed that.
I really think there was a good salesman at work to get the thing
installed.
But every plumber I've talked to thinks it a great system and say
don't even think of getting it removed.
hehe.

--Vic

On Jan 25, 10:11*pm, "RogerT" wrote:
I am putting a full bath in a basement level apartment. *The basement has a
concrete floor, and center line of the horizontal 4-inch PVC sewer line that
runs out to the street is about 8 inches above the concrete floor.

One of the approaches I am thinking of using is something like the following
Saniflo upflush system:

http://www.saniflo.com/SANIPLUS.aspx.

The washer/dryer and the sink are no problem because the drains for those
two are above the existing horizontal sewer line, so those drains can be
connected directly to the sewer line. *That leaves the full bathtub and the
toilet.

If I use the Saniflo system shown above, the drain from the tub will have to
tie into the bottom of the Saniflo device. *I think that will mean that the
tub will have to be placed on a raised platform -- maybe 3 inches or so -- *
to enable the tub to have a trap and to drain into the bottom of the
Saniflo.

But, one question I have about this type of Saniflo is how can the drain go
directly into the side of the Saniflo tank at the bottom of the tank? *Can
it pump out the water down to a depth inside the tank of just a 1/2 inch to
1 inch?

Also, would another option for the toilet be to get one that flushes out the
back (like the one shown in the link above) but have it flush directly into
the drain? *That way, the pump system wouldn't have to grind and pump toilet
sewage. *Meanwhile, the pump system could then just be used to pump the
water draining from the tub and not toilet sewage.

Any thoughts, suggestions or experiences regarding these options would be
appreciated.

Thanks.

P.S. *I could break out the concrete basement floor fairly easily and put a
below-grade pumping system in if such a system exists, and if that would be
a better approach.

It has to go into the bottom of the tank, otherwise you would need to
cut a hole in the floor for the tank to sit in if it went into the
top. (or mount baths and showers on a platform. which defeats the
object). The pump is capable of sucking the tank almost dry. You
shouldn't need to cut any holes in the floor.
It's best BTW, if you can discharge the macerated sewage into the top
of your existing sewage pipe. This helps prevent, sewage backing up in
your new pipework.
Try and make provisions for a cleaning/rodding out eyes. Esp. where
the new pipe goes into the old.

Vic Smith wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 20:25:46 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

Pump went out. Only lasted 47 years.
But it cost me $2100 to get pump/motot assembly replaced.

~$45/yr, that seems an acceptable maintenance cost.

No choice anyway, since putting that in was major sewer line work, and
it would be the same to restore it back to original gravity.
Must have cost an arm and a leg to get it installed.
Personally I'd rather not have it. Just something else to go wrong.
And electricity costs too.
Rather clean up some **** every 30 or 40 years.
But that's easy for me to say since I never had to.
The original owners did, and it was their call.
Something about pumping out every drain in the house when there's
gravity for that just rubs me the wrong way.
Sanitary lines here are deep.
Only way for sewer water to get in the house on the rare occasions of
back up is the basement floor drain.
I would have just addressed that.
I really think there was a good salesman at work to get the thing
installed.
But every plumber I've talked to thinks it a great system and say
don't even think of getting it removed.
hehe.

--Vic

4" PVC ball valves aren't very expensive, it would seem that providing
some shutoff valves to provide the ability to isolate your house from
the city sewer would be prudent. Quite easy to close the valves when
going away like you would with the water supply, and if you're home and
a backup starts it gives you the ability to stop it and limit the
damage. If you forget the valve is closed, the worst case is your sink
or toilet backs up, most likely backing up into a lot point tub where
it's easy to clean, so you just open the valve and wash the tub.

Pete C. wrote:
RogerT wrote:

I am putting a full bath in a basement level apartment. The
basement has a concrete floor, and center line of the horizontal
4-inch PVC sewer line that runs out to the street is about 8 inches
above the concrete floor.

One of the approaches I am thinking of using is something like the
following Saniflo upflush system:

http://www.saniflo.com/SANIPLUS.aspx .

The washer/dryer and the sink are no problem because the drains for
those two are above the existing horizontal sewer line, so those
drains can be connected directly to the sewer line. That leaves the
full bathtub and the toilet.

If I use the Saniflo system shown above, the drain from the tub will
have to tie into the bottom of the Saniflo device. I think that
will mean that the tub will have to be placed on a raised platform
-- maybe 3 inches or so -- to enable the tub to have a trap and to
drain into the bottom of the Saniflo.

But, one question I have about this type of Saniflo is how can the
drain go directly into the side of the Saniflo tank at the bottom of
the tank? Can it pump out the water down to a depth inside the tank
of just a 1/2 inch to 1 inch?

Also, would another option for the toilet be to get one that flushes
out the back (like the one shown in the link above) but have it
flush directly into the drain? That way, the pump system wouldn't
have to grind and pump toilet sewage. Meanwhile, the pump system
could then just be used to pump the water draining from the tub and
not toilet sewage.

Any thoughts, suggestions or experiences regarding these options
would be appreciated.

Thanks.

P.S. I could break out the concrete basement floor fairly easily
and put a below-grade pumping system in if such a system exists, and
if that would be a better approach.

Your p.s. is the best solution. Such pump systems do indeed exist and
installation is pretty easy. These systems allow you to use normal
fixtures, not need raised platforms, and use normal gravity drains
into the below grade pump chamber. You will need to cut out a section
of the floor and dig down enough to install the tank with it's access
cover flush with the floor, and you will need to trench the pump
output, vent and electrical.

Thanks Pete C. and all others for your suggestions.

The more I look into all of this, the more complicated it seems to be
getting.

For those who may be interest, here are some links that I found so far while
trying to research the various options:

http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infplumb/infupf.html


http://www.plumbingsupply.com/sewage.html



http://www.franklin-electric.com/was...astewater.aspx



http://www.libertypumps.com/Products...p=69&s=26&c=19



http://libertypumps.logicalsolutions...px?VideoId=550



The last link is a video of one of the submersible grinding types of sewage
pumps.



Since this will be a rented out apartment, I am concerned about maintenance
issues with tenants flushing the wrong things down the toilet. That may
just be something I will have to live with and deal with. However, if I can
figure a way to have the toilet flush directly into the existing sewer lines
(by elevating the toilet and using a rear outlet toilet), then maybe all
that I would need to have drain into a sump-type sewer system would be the
tub.