We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few years ago.
There is a ridge in the kitchen floor. Under that floor is a concrete
cellar that is about 6 feet tall. The rest of the foundation is
probably only 3 feet tall. We've been told the rest of the foundation
has probably sunk but, of course, the cellar portion has sunk a lot
less - leaving us with the ridge.

Any suggestions? If we were to take the drastic choice to raise the
house and put in a new foundation, we aren't sure the house would go
back to its original state intact anyway (as a matter of fact, most
contractors have told us to level and start over instead). Some have
told us to put in several jacks and slowly lift the house. Others
have suggested we just make the kitchen level with the cellar side
(but I'm pretty sure that would mean a step into our living room). We
also thought we could take extreme measures to cut out the concrete
and lower that portion. What would you do?

As a side note we are considering putting an addition on the side of
the house.

Thanks!

"upwardcall" wrote in message
...
We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few years ago.
There is a ridge in the kitchen floor. Under that floor is a concrete
cellar that is about 6 feet tall. The rest of the foundation is
probably only 3 feet tall. We've been told the rest of the foundation
has probably sunk but, of course, the cellar portion has sunk a lot
less - leaving us with the ridge.

Any suggestions? If we were to take the drastic choice to raise the
house and put in a new foundation, we aren't sure the house would go
back to its original state intact anyway (as a matter of fact, most
contractors have told us to level and start over instead). Some have
told us to put in several jacks and slowly lift the house. Others
have suggested we just make the kitchen level with the cellar side
(but I'm pretty sure that would mean a step into our living room). We
also thought we could take extreme measures to cut out the concrete
and lower that portion. What would you do?

As a side note we are considering putting an addition on the side of
the house.

Thanks!


I would make a water level and crawl under with a couple of jacks and
blocking. Then I would start jacking up the low areas and blocking the
house up until it was level. Cheap and easy. If it doesn't work you can
always go back to tear it down and start over. I would give careful
consideration to your floor plan before investing much money in the existing
structure. You probably have tiny bedrooms with no closets. A tiny
bathroom added on in a weird location. Inadequate wiring. You also my have
balloon framing which creates a significant fire hazard. Unless you can fix
all these items you probably should not invest much additional money.
Unless the location is perfect you may be money ahead to sell and buy a more
modern house.

On Jan 9, 4:57*pm, upwardcall wrote:
We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few years ago.
There is a ridge in the kitchen floor. *Under that floor is a concrete
cellar that is about 6 feet tall. *The rest of the foundation is
probably only 3 feet tall. *We've been told the rest of the foundation
has probably sunk but, of course, the cellar portion has sunk a lot
less - leaving us with the ridge.

Any suggestions? *If we were to take the drastic choice to raise the
house and put in a new foundation, we aren't sure the house would go
back to its original state intact anyway (as a matter of fact, most
contractors have told us to level and start over instead). *Some have
told us to put in several jacks and slowly lift the house. *Others
have suggested we just make the kitchen level with the cellar side
(but I'm pretty sure that would mean a step into our living room). *We
also thought we could take extreme measures to cut out the concrete
and lower that portion. *What would you do?

As a side note we are considering putting an addition on the side of
the house.

Thanks!

Is the reason there is a ridge in the kitchen because there is a beam
under the ridged area? If so, I would put adjustable jacks under the
beam to raise it slightly, and then cut down the supports for the beam
however much you want to lower it, and then let the beam back down to
its new lower height. I would err on removing a little too much
rather than too little if it is hard to get at the supports. You can
always shim the beam back up, that should be much easier than crawling
around to cut the supports a second time.

On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 14:57:27 -0800 (PST), upwardcall
wrote:

We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few years ago.
There is a ridge in the kitchen floor. Under that floor is a concrete
cellar that is about 6 feet tall. The rest of the foundation is
probably only 3 feet tall. We've been told the rest of the foundation
has probably sunk but, of course, the cellar portion has sunk a lot
less - leaving us with the ridge.

Any suggestions? If we were to take the drastic choice to raise the
house and put in a new foundation, we aren't sure the house would go
back to its original state intact anyway (as a matter of fact, most
contractors have told us to level and start over instead). Some have
told us to put in several jacks and slowly lift the house. Others
have suggested we just make the kitchen level with the cellar side
(but I'm pretty sure that would mean a step into our living room). We
also thought we could take extreme measures to cut out the concrete
and lower that portion. What would you do?

As a side note we are considering putting an addition on the side of
the house.

Thanks!

What are the walls of that celler made from? If it's concrete block,
cant you just remove the top layer of blocks and replace them with 4
inch blocks or bricks instead of the 8 inch blocks? Just do a little
at a time. If it's poured concrete, a concrete saw might work. It's
probably easier to lower those walls than raise the whole house. If
the house is still good otherwise, why demolish it.

Pictures would be helpful !

Mike

On 1/9/2011 5:57 PM, upwardcall wrote:
We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few years ago.
There is a ridge in the kitchen floor. Under that floor is a concrete
cellar that is about 6 feet tall. The rest of the foundation is
probably only 3 feet tall. We've been told the rest of the foundation
has probably sunk but, of course, the cellar portion has sunk a lot
less - leaving us with the ridge.




Any suggestions? If we were to take the drastic choice to raise the
house and put in a new foundation, we aren't sure the house would go
back to its original state intact anyway (as a matter of fact, most
contractors have told us to level and start over instead). Some have
told us to put in several jacks and slowly lift the house. Others
have suggested we just make the kitchen level with the cellar side
(but I'm pretty sure that would mean a step into our living room).


An old house that is not level is not unusual, nor a tragedy.

I'd level what you can and live with the rest, even if it means a step.
How is the plaster? If it is in good shape, it won't be after extensive
jacking.

IMHO, leveling the kitchen is most important. I leveled mine (29 house)
with some jacking but also with some shims and underlayment. It took a
while but I didn't crack the walls.

Jeff

We
also thought we could take extreme measures to cut out the concrete
and lower that portion. What would you do?

As a side note we are considering putting an addition on the side of
the house.

Thanks!

On Jan 9, 5:57*pm, upwardcall wrote:
We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few years ago.
There is a ridge in the kitchen floor. *Under that floor is a concrete
cellar that is about 6 feet tall. *The rest of the foundation is
probably only 3 feet tall. *We've been told the rest of the foundation
has probably sunk but, of course, the cellar portion has sunk a lot
less - leaving us with the ridge.

Any suggestions? *If we were to take the drastic choice to raise the
house and put in a new foundation, we aren't sure the house would go
back to its original state intact anyway (as a matter of fact, most
contractors have told us to level and start over instead). *Some have
told us to put in several jacks and slowly lift the house. *Others
have suggested we just make the kitchen level with the cellar side
(but I'm pretty sure that would mean a step into our living room). *We
also thought we could take extreme measures to cut out the concrete
and lower that portion. *What would you do?

As a side note we are considering putting an addition on the side of
the house.

Thanks!

I agree with the other posters that suggested lowering the ridge.
Just jack up enough to cut.

We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few years ago.
There is a ridge in the kitchen floor. Under that floor is a concrete
cellar that is about 6 feet tall. The rest of the foundation is
probably only 3 feet tall. We've been told the rest of the foundation
has probably sunk but, of course, the cellar portion has sunk a lot
less - leaving us with the ridge.

Any suggestions? If we were to take the drastic choice to raise the
house and put in a new foundation, we aren't sure the house would go
back to its original state intact anyway (as a matter of fact, most
contractors have told us to level and start over instead). Some have
told us to put in several jacks and slowly lift the house. Others
have suggested we just make the kitchen level with the cellar side
(but I'm pretty sure that would mean a step into our living room). We
also thought we could take extreme measures to cut out the concrete
and lower that portion. What would you do?

As a side note we are considering putting an addition on the side of
the house.


*I would weigh the costs and benefits and then decide. You could spend a
bundle of money to raise and level, but still have a hundred year old house
which will need remodeling and upgrading. If you like the house, talk to an
architect about designing one that is similar. Before you demolish the old
house, you may be able to salvage some elements for use on the new house.

On Jan 9, 5:57*pm, upwardcall wrote:
We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few years ago.
There is a ridge in the kitchen floor. *Under that floor is a concrete
cellar that is about 6 feet tall. *The rest of the foundation is
probably only 3 feet tall. *We've been told the rest of the foundation
has probably sunk but, of course, the cellar portion has sunk a lot
less - leaving us with the ridge.

Any suggestions? *If we were to take the drastic choice to raise the
house and put in a new foundation, we aren't sure the house would go
back to its original state intact anyway (as a matter of fact, most
contractors have told us to level and start over instead). *Some have
told us to put in several jacks and slowly lift the house. *Others
have suggested we just make the kitchen level with the cellar side
(but I'm pretty sure that would mean a step into our living room). *We
also thought we could take extreme measures to cut out the concrete
and lower that portion. *What would you do?

As a side note we are considering putting an addition on the side of
the house.

Thanks!

I live in a 170 year old 3 story house and have had parts of it raised
using jacks. It takes time, if you don't want cracks in the walls.
TB

In article ,
Jeff Thies wrote:

IMHO, leveling the kitchen is most important. I leveled mine (29 house)
with some jacking but also with some shims and underlayment. It took a
while but I didn't crack the walls.

Jeff

I'm curious about this, because I have a rental house that's sagging a
bit in one corner. I've heard that jacking it slowly is the way to go.
What does slowly mean? 1/4" per month? I can see the wood adjusting
itself over time, but what happens to pipes?

On Jan 10, 11:14*am, Smitty Two wrote:

snip

I'm curious about this, because I have a rental house that's sagging a
bit in one corner. I've heard that jacking it slowly is the way to go.
What does slowly mean? 1/4" per month? I can see the wood adjusting
itself over time, but what happens to pipes?

Seems logical to do the lifting over the course of a couple of
seasonal changes, i.e., around 6 months or so. That's what I've seen
on a couple of local projects. Plumbing ought to be worked over to
lessen stress, too. Old cast iron drainage will probably be the most
affected. Some plumbers may even cut the cast iron and install Fernco
sleeves for insurance.

Joe

On Jan 9, 5:57*pm, upwardcall wrote:
We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few years ago.
There is a ridge in the kitchen floor. *Under that floor is a concrete
cellar that is about 6 feet tall. *The rest of the foundation is
probably only 3 feet tall. *We've been told the rest of the foundation
has probably sunk but, of course, the cellar portion has sunk a lot
less - leaving us with the ridge.

Any suggestions? *If we were to take the drastic choice to raise the
house and put in a new foundation, we aren't sure the house would go
back to its original state intact anyway (as a matter of fact, most
contractors have told us to level and start over instead). *Some have
told us to put in several jacks and slowly lift the house. *Others
have suggested we just make the kitchen level with the cellar side
(but I'm pretty sure that would mean a step into our living room). *We
also thought we could take extreme measures to cut out the concrete
and lower that portion. *What would you do?

As a side note we are considering putting an addition on the side of
the house.

Thanks!


The correct solution is one which identifies the cause of the settling
and resolves it so that the settling will not continue to happen...

It is NEVER the correct solution to "lower" the high spot down to
match the rest of the settled structure -- you would have to keep
doing that over and over again as the building continues to settle...

You need a thorough inspection of your foundation made which
will include having it dug up in several places... It sounds like
your older home's foundation was built without the proper footing
and is steadily sinking...

You have not described what kind of foundation you have:

-- Is it field stone/rubble ?

Well if that is what you have, then you will need to replace your
entire foundation with a new one because the mortar used to bind
the original one together is failing and it really can't be fixed in a
way to prevent uneven settling...

-- Is it made of bricks/concrete/block ?

Well if that is what you have, then it is wasn't built on a properly
sized footing for the site conditions and you might be able to
excavate it out in sections and pour a new footing underneath it...

Have you ruled out water as the cause of this ? Your site might
have poor drainage and water is getting into the foundation and
making it heave and settle every winter...

You need a specialty contractor for this project, it is a complex
thing to deal with identifying the cause of a failed foundation,
engineer a new solution and install it on an existing building...
Your house might have to be elevated up on cribbing to make
the foundation work easier... That sort of work is usually the
domain of people with experience in moving/relocating houses
rather than a general contractor or carpenter... So it will be a
more involved project than just locating a carpenter to fix it...

~~ Evan

In nvilleaccesscompany,
Pat typed:
"upwardcall" wrote in message
...
We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few
years ago. There is a ridge in the kitchen floor. Under
that floor is a concrete cellar that is about 6 feet tall.
The rest of the foundation is probably only 3 feet tall. We've been told
the rest of the foundation has probably
sunk but, of course, the cellar portion has sunk a lot
less - leaving us with the ridge. Any suggestions? If we were to take
the drastic choice to
raise the house and put in a new foundation, we aren't
sure the house would go back to its original state intact
anyway (as a matter of fact, most contractors have told us
to level and start over instead). Some have told us to
put in several jacks and slowly lift the house. Others
have suggested we just make the kitchen level with the
cellar side (but I'm pretty sure that would mean a step
into our living room). We also thought we could take
extreme measures to cut out the concrete and lower that
portion. What would you do? As a side note we are considering putting
an addition on
the side of the house.

Thanks!


I would make a water level and crawl under with a couple of
jacks and blocking. Then I would start jacking up the low
areas and blocking the house up until it was level. Cheap
and easy. If it doesn't work you can always go back to
tear it down and start over. I would give careful
consideration to your floor plan before investing much
money in the existing structure. You probably have tiny
bedrooms with no closets. A tiny bathroom added on in a
weird location. Inadequate wiring. You also my have
balloon framing which creates a significant fire hazard. Unless you can
fix all these items you probably should not
invest much additional money. Unless the location is
perfect you may be money ahead to sell and buy a more
modern house.

I'm curious: What is "balloon framing"? Never came across the term.

HTH,

Twayne`

On Jan 10, 3:19*am, wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 14:57:27 -0800 (PST), upwardcall









wrote:
We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few years ago.
There is a ridge in the kitchen floor. *Under that floor is a concrete
cellar that is about 6 feet tall. *The rest of the foundation is
probably only 3 feet tall. *We've been told the rest of the foundation
has probably sunk but, of course, the cellar portion has sunk a lot
less - leaving us with the ridge.

Any suggestions? *If we were to take the drastic choice to raise the
house and put in a new foundation, we aren't sure the house would go
back to its original state intact anyway (as a matter of fact, most
contractors have told us to level and start over instead). *Some have
told us to put in several jacks and slowly lift the house. *Others
have suggested we just make the kitchen level with the cellar side
(but I'm pretty sure that would mean a step into our living room). *We
also thought we could take extreme measures to cut out the concrete
and lower that portion. *What would you do?

As a side note we are considering putting an addition on the side of
the house.

Thanks!

What are the walls of that celler made from? *If it's concrete block,
cant you just remove the top layer of blocks and replace them with 4
inch blocks or bricks instead of the 8 inch blocks? *Just do a little
at a time. If it's poured concrete, a concrete saw might work. It's
probably easier to lower those walls than raise the whole house. *If
the house is still good otherwise, why demolish it. *

Pictures would be helpful !

Mike

Mike, the cellar is made of concrete. We were thinking of doing this
very thing, but it would be quite interesting since it involves an
outside wall and a back deck above it (which would have to be lowered
as well).

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 16:22:35 -0500, "Twayne"
wrote:

In nvilleaccesscompany,
Pat typed:
"upwardcall" wrote in message
...
We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few
years ago. There is a ridge in the kitchen floor. Under
that floor is a concrete cellar that is about 6 feet tall.
The rest of the foundation is probably only 3 feet tall. We've been told
the rest of the foundation has probably
sunk but, of course, the cellar portion has sunk a lot
less - leaving us with the ridge. Any suggestions? If we were to take
the drastic choice to
raise the house and put in a new foundation, we aren't
sure the house would go back to its original state intact
anyway (as a matter of fact, most contractors have told us
to level and start over instead). Some have told us to
put in several jacks and slowly lift the house. Others
have suggested we just make the kitchen level with the
cellar side (but I'm pretty sure that would mean a step
into our living room). We also thought we could take
extreme measures to cut out the concrete and lower that
portion. What would you do? As a side note we are considering putting
an addition on
the side of the house.

Thanks!


I would make a water level and crawl under with a couple of
jacks and blocking. Then I would start jacking up the low
areas and blocking the house up until it was level. Cheap
and easy. If it doesn't work you can always go back to
tear it down and start over. I would give careful
consideration to your floor plan before investing much
money in the existing structure. You probably have tiny
bedrooms with no closets. A tiny bathroom added on in a
weird location. Inadequate wiring. You also my have
balloon framing which creates a significant fire hazard. Unless you can
fix all these items you probably should not
invest much additional money. Unless the location is
perfect you may be money ahead to sell and buy a more
modern house.

I'm curious: What is "balloon framing"? Never came across the term.

Balloon framing is where the studs go from the sill to the eaves, with the
intermediate floors attached to them. It's no longer used, at least without
fire-blocks, because fire can spread from one floor to the next around the
floors. The walls become big chimneys; very bad. Try a web search on
"balloon framing" for more information.

On Jan 10, 1:10*pm, Evan wrote:
On Jan 9, 5:57*pm, upwardcall wrote:









We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few years ago.
There is a ridge in the kitchen floor. *Under that floor is a concrete
cellar that is about 6 feet tall. *The rest of the foundation is
probably only 3 feet tall. *We've been told the rest of the foundation
has probably sunk but, of course, the cellar portion has sunk a lot
less - leaving us with the ridge.

Any suggestions? *If we were to take the drastic choice to raise the
house and put in a new foundation, we aren't sure the house would go
back to its original state intact anyway (as a matter of fact, most
contractors have told us to level and start over instead). *Some have
told us to put in several jacks and slowly lift the house. *Others
have suggested we just make the kitchen level with the cellar side
(but I'm pretty sure that would mean a step into our living room). *We
also thought we could take extreme measures to cut out the concrete
and lower that portion. *What would you do?

As a side note we are considering putting an addition on the side of
the house.

Thanks!

The correct solution is one which identifies the cause of the settling
and resolves it so that the settling will not continue to happen...

It is NEVER the correct solution to "lower" the high spot down to
match the rest of the settled structure -- you would have to keep
doing that over and over again as the building continues to settle...

You need a thorough inspection of your foundation made which
will include having it dug up in several places... *It sounds like
your older home's foundation was built without the proper footing
and is steadily sinking...

You have not described what kind of foundation you have:

*-- Is it field stone/rubble ?

Well if that is what you have, then you will need to replace your
entire foundation with a new one because the mortar used to bind
the original one together is failing and it really can't be fixed in a
way to prevent uneven settling...

*-- Is it made of bricks/concrete/block ?

Well if that is what you have, then it is wasn't built on a properly
sized footing for the site conditions and you might be able to
excavate it out in sections and pour a new footing underneath it...

Have you ruled out water as the cause of this ? *Your site might
have poor drainage and water is getting into the foundation and
making it heave and settle every winter...

You need a specialty contractor for this project, it is a complex
thing to deal with identifying the cause of a failed foundation,
engineer a new solution and install it on an existing building...
Your house might have to be elevated up on cribbing to make
the foundation work easier... *That sort of work is usually the
domain of people with experience in moving/relocating houses
rather than a general contractor or carpenter... *So it will be a
more involved project than just locating a carpenter to fix it...

~~ Evan

Evan,

I certainly agree with your assessment. I believe our foundation is
some type of old concrete block cemented together. There is a lot of
water here, and we have done some changes for that reason (gutters
mostly). There doesn't seem to be any water under the house, however
(the ground is sloped away correctly). We have been told by
foundation guys that all houses settle here, and no matter what we do
they will, at least some. Thanks for your input.

On Jan 10, 9:14*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
*Jeff Thies wrote:

IMHO, leveling the kitchen is most important. I leveled mine (29 house)
with some jacking but also with some shims and underlayment. It took a
while but I didn't crack the walls.

* *Jeff

I'm curious about this, because I have a rental house that's sagging a
bit in one corner. I've heard that jacking it slowly is the way to go.
What does slowly mean? 1/4" per month? I can see the wood adjusting
itself over time, but what happens to pipes?

I assume the pipes were in place when the house was new (& level).
So jacking back up up wouldn't hurt?

I would be worried about any cast iron drain lines going from floor
framing into the earth.

I heard or read "slowly means" like 1/8" per day but a 1/4" per week
or month seems reasonable as well.

On Jan 11, 2:24*am, DD_BobK wrote:
On Jan 10, 9:14*am, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
*Jeff Thies wrote:

IMHO, leveling the kitchen is most important. I leveled mine (29 house)
with some jacking but also with some shims and underlayment. It took a
while but I didn't crack the walls.

* *Jeff

I'm curious about this, because I have a rental house that's sagging a
bit in one corner. I've heard that jacking it slowly is the way to go.
What does slowly mean? 1/4" per month? I can see the wood adjusting
itself over time, but what happens to pipes?

I assume the pipes were in place when the house was new (& level).
So jacking back up up wouldn't hurt?

I would be worried about any cast iron drain lines going from floor
framing into the earth.

I heard or read "slowly means" like 1/8" per day but a 1/4" per week
or month seems reasonable as well.


Sounds a lot cheaper to rip the plaster out and redo it after the
structure has been leveled out in one day by a professional than
it would be to keep having them come back and jack it up fractions
of an inch at a time over a long period of time...

~~ Evan

On Jan 9, 5:57*pm, upwardcall wrote:
We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few years ago.
There is a ridge in the kitchen floor.

Make sure everything is structurally sound, then either build a level
floor over the top of the existing floor, or tear the whole thing out
and build a new level floor from scratch.

We did both when we remodeled the kitchen and bathroom in my folks'
house. The floors were sloped BAD. We cut tapered stringers and nailed
them to the existing subfloor over the joists in the bathroom, then
laid a new 3/4" ply subfloor over that. In the kitchen we tore it all
out down to the empty gaping hole and installed new floor joists on
the level.

There's about a 4" half-step into the bathroom... Nothing we could do
about it without completely gutting the house. Technically it's now a
split-level house...

On Jan 9, 5:57*pm, upwardcall wrote:
We purchased a hundred year old house in NE Missouri a few years ago.
There is a ridge in the kitchen floor. *Under that floor is a concrete
cellar that is about 6 feet tall. *The rest of the foundation is
probably only 3 feet tall. *We've been told the rest of the foundation
has probably sunk but, of course, the cellar portion has sunk a lot
less - leaving us with the ridge.

Any suggestions? *If we were to take the drastic choice to raise the
house and put in a new foundation, we aren't sure the house would go
back to its original state intact anyway (as a matter of fact, most
contractors have told us to level and start over instead). *Some have
told us to put in several jacks and slowly lift the house. *Others
have suggested we just make the kitchen level with the cellar side
(but I'm pretty sure that would mean a step into our living room). *We
also thought we could take extreme measures to cut out the concrete
and lower that portion. *What would you do?

As a side note we are considering putting an addition on the side of
the house.

Thanks!

THIS IS A VERY GOOD TOPIC FOR THIS GROUP....BUILDING TECHNOLOGY HAS
ADVANCED TO A STATE WHERE YOUR HOUSE IS TOTALLY SALVAGEABLE...I AM
GOING TO ASK THOSE TWO NAUGHTY GHOST THAT HANG AROUND YOUR HOUSE TO
STOP MESSING WITH IT...GOOD LUCK WITH ALL YOUR HOME REPAIRS...YOU POOR
DEARS.

PAT ECUM