*Got the first bid on replacement windows from a national company for
this 1939 hovel. Included is a "mandatory" per window "Lead
Renovation Fee" per "Federal Lead Containment Law".

Eh, something just don't seem right...

I Google and find:

4. Abatement does not include renovation, remodeling, landscaping or
other activities, when such activities are not designed to permanently
eliminate lead-based paint hazards, but, instead, are designed to
repair, restore, or remodel a given structure or dwelling, even though
these activities may incidentally result in a reduction or elimination
of lead-based paint hazards.
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/traincert.htm

EPA requires that firms performing renovation, repair, and painting
projects that disturb lead-based paint in pre-1978 homes, child care
facilities and schools be certified by EPA and that they use certified
renovators who are trained by EPA-approved training providers to
follow lead-safe work practices.

Contractors must use lead-safe work practices and follow these three
simple procedures:
Contain the work area.
Minimize dust.
Clean up thoroughly.
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm

Those don't sound like things I wouldn't expect to be "professional"
SOP.

Of note: According to the sales manager of a smaller regional company
the replacement window market is so strong it was perfectly reasonable
for their CSR to decline to bid if my wife wouldn't agree to sit down
for a sales presentation. Bidding, he said, would be "a waste of
time".

*I can install my own windows, but I'm not so inclined, yet.

Any similar experiences out there?
-----

- gpsman

On 1/5/2011 11:41 AM, gpsman wrote:
*Got the first bid on replacement windows from a national company for
this 1939 hovel. Included is a "mandatory" per window "Lead
Renovation Fee" per "Federal Lead Containment Law".

Eh, something just don't seem right...

I Google and find:

4. Abatement does not include renovation, remodeling, landscaping or
other activities, when such activities are not designed to permanently
eliminate lead-based paint hazards, but, instead, are designed to
repair, restore, or remodel a given structure or dwelling, even though
these activities may incidentally result in a reduction or elimination
of lead-based paint hazards.
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/traincert.htm

EPA requires that firms performing renovation, repair, and painting
projects that disturb lead-based paint in pre-1978 homes, child care
facilities and schools be certified by EPA and that they use certified
renovators who are trained by EPA-approved training providers to
follow lead-safe work practices.

Contractors must use lead-safe work practices and follow these three
simple procedures:
Contain the work area.
Minimize dust.
Clean up thoroughly.
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm

Those don't sound like things I wouldn't expect to be "professional"
SOP.

Of note: According to the sales manager of a smaller regional company
the replacement window market is so strong it was perfectly reasonable
for their CSR to decline to bid if my wife wouldn't agree to sit down
for a sales presentation. Bidding, he said, would be "a waste of
time".

*I can install my own windows, but I'm not so inclined, yet.

Any similar experiences out there?
-----

- gpsman

Tough to say from your epa quotes.
I see there a lot of cheap lead test kits and I might buy one to see if
I have a problem.

I had several windows replaced in my pre '78 house last year and the
issue never came up. Paint was blue, which is not normally a lead based
color. Years ago most white paint contained lead which was supplanted
by titanium dioxide pigment.

I think replacement window sales last year were good because of the
government tax rebate and people were rushing to get done before the end
of the year. I suspect, give it a few months, and these guys will be
hungry for work. Right now they're probably busy installing windows
bought last year.

On Jan 5, 1:22*pm, Frank wrote:
On 1/5/2011 11:41 AM, gpsman wrote:





*Got the first bid on replacement windows from a national company for
this 1939 hovel. *Included is a "mandatory" per window "Lead
Renovation Fee" per "Federal Lead Containment Law".

Eh, something just don't seem right...

I Google and find:

4. Abatement does not include renovation, remodeling, landscaping or
other activities, when such activities are not designed to permanently
eliminate lead-based paint hazards, but, instead, are designed to
repair, restore, or remodel a given structure or dwelling, even though
these activities may incidentally result in a reduction or elimination
of lead-based paint hazards.
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/traincert.htm

EPA requires that firms performing renovation, repair, and painting
projects that disturb lead-based paint in pre-1978 homes, child care
facilities and schools be certified by EPA and that they use certified
renovators who are trained by EPA-approved training providers to
follow lead-safe work practices.

Contractors must use lead-safe work practices and follow these three
simple procedures:
Contain the work area.
Minimize dust.
Clean up thoroughly.
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm

Those don't sound like things I wouldn't expect to be "professional"
SOP.

Of note: According to the sales manager of a smaller regional company
the replacement window market is so strong it was perfectly reasonable
for their CSR to decline to bid if my wife wouldn't agree to sit down
for a sales presentation. *Bidding, he said, would be "a waste of
time".

*I can install my own windows, but I'm not so inclined, yet.

Any similar experiences out there?
* -----

- gpsman

Tough to say from your epa quotes.
I see there a lot of cheap lead test kits and I might buy one to see if
I have a problem.

I had several windows replaced in my pre '78 house last year and the
issue never came up. Paint was blue, which is not normally a lead based
color. *Years ago most white paint contained lead which was supplanted
by titanium dioxide pigment.

I think replacement window sales last year were good because of the
government tax rebate and people were rushing to get done before the end
of the year. *I suspect, give it a few months, and these guys will be
hungry for work. *Right now they're probably busy installing windows
bought last year.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ae you worried about possible lead paint on the window frames or
possible lead in the glass itself? If you're worried about the
paint, get a mask and remove the windows yourself and just get bids
for putting the new windows in. Unless you create dust, there is no
way to get lead into your body unless you're so hungry that you eat
paint scraps.

On Jan 5, 11:41*am, gpsman wrote:
*Got the first bid on replacement windows from a national company for
this 1939 hovel. *Included is a "mandatory" per window "Lead
Renovation Fee" per "Federal Lead Containment Law".

Eh, something just don't seem right...

I Google and find:

4. Abatement does not include renovation, remodeling, landscaping or
other activities, when such activities are not designed to permanently
eliminate lead-based paint hazards, but, instead, are designed to
repair, restore, or remodel a given structure or dwelling, even though
these activities may incidentally result in a reduction or elimination
of lead-based paint hazards.http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/traincert.htm

EPA requires that firms performing renovation, repair, and painting
projects that disturb lead-based paint in pre-1978 homes, child care
facilities and schools be certified by EPA and that they use certified
renovators who are trained by EPA-approved training providers to
follow lead-safe work practices.

Contractors must use lead-safe work practices and follow these three
simple procedures:
Contain the work area.
Minimize dust.
Clean up thoroughly.http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm

Those don't sound like things I wouldn't expect to be "professional"
SOP.

Of note: According to the sales manager of a smaller regional company
the replacement window market is so strong it was perfectly reasonable
for their CSR to decline to bid if my wife wouldn't agree to sit down
for a sales presentation. *Bidding, he said, would be "a waste of
time".

*I can install my own windows, but I'm not so inclined, yet.

Any similar experiences out there?
*-----

- gpsman

As far as bidding wthout a presentation I can possibly see his point.

I did my own windows, but I got a couple of bids mainly so I could see
what was out there - window-wise and price-wise - but also because I
didn't know what I didn't know.

I knew that I could physically do the work and I was pretty sure I had
all of the tools, but I considered getting bids as part of learning
process to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Here's what I found:

2 bids were from places where I went into the store/showroom, where
they showed me various product lines and then came out, took some
measurements and sent me a quote. Based on what they quoted me - and
what they included in the quote - I knew what I would get for my money
and determined that I could do it "better" and "cheaper" - but not
faster. ;-)

The third was from a place that sent out a salesman with a little
miniature yet fully operational window, a case of cut-aways showing
how well their windows were constructed and a catalog full of options.
The problem was, this place did not have an entry-level or even meduim-
level line of windows. Everything they had was the best of the best
and the quote reflected that.

Had they simply bid on the job wthout the presentation, I would have
laughed in their face. However, after seeing their product, I at least
uderstood why they were so much more expensive. If I was rolling in
dough and wanted windows that were actually too good for my house, I
could have rationalized their price and given them the job. Without
the presentation, it wouldn't have even made sense to think about it.

Yes, I know that the price also included the expense for the
presentation, but nonetheless, the presentation helped make the cost
seem a bit more justified.

Thus, a bid without a presentation would have been a waste of their
time because I wouldn't have really known what I was getting for my
money.

On Jan 5, 10:41*am, gpsman wrote:
*Got the first bid on replacement windows from a national company for
this 1939 hovel. *Included is a "mandatory" per window "Lead
Renovation Fee" per "Federal Lead Containment Law".

Eh, something just don't seem right...

I Google and find:

4. Abatement does not include renovation, remodeling, landscaping or
other activities, when such activities are not designed to permanently
eliminate lead-based paint hazards, but, instead, are designed to
repair, restore, or remodel a given structure or dwelling, even though
these activities may incidentally result in a reduction or elimination
of lead-based paint hazards.http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/traincert.htm

EPA requires that firms performing renovation, repair, and painting
projects that disturb lead-based paint in pre-1978 homes, child care
facilities and schools be certified by EPA and that they use certified
renovators who are trained by EPA-approved training providers to
follow lead-safe work practices.

Contractors must use lead-safe work practices and follow these three
simple procedures:
Contain the work area.
Minimize dust.
Clean up thoroughly.http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm

Those don't sound like things I wouldn't expect to be "professional"
SOP.

Of note: According to the sales manager of a smaller regional company
the replacement window market is so strong it was perfectly reasonable
for their CSR to decline to bid if my wife wouldn't agree to sit down
for a sales presentation. *Bidding, he said, would be "a waste of
time".

*I can install my own windows, but I'm not so inclined, yet.

Any similar experiences out there?
*-----

- gpsman

Call a few companies that deal with Known windows that have a 20yr-
lifetime warranty by them selves, not a local made to order co. What
you describe is bs.

"gpsman" wrote in message
...
*Got the first bid on replacement windows from a national company for
this 1939 hovel. Included is a "mandatory" per window "Lead
Renovation Fee" per "Federal Lead Containment Law".

Eh, something just don't seem right...

I Google and find:

4. Abatement does not include renovation, remodeling, landscaping or
other activities, when such activities are not designed to permanently
eliminate lead-based paint hazards, but, instead, are designed to
repair, restore, or remodel a given structure or dwelling, even though
these activities may incidentally result in a reduction or elimination
of lead-based paint hazards.
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/traincert.htm

EPA requires that firms performing renovation, repair, and painting
projects that disturb lead-based paint in pre-1978 homes, child care
facilities and schools be certified by EPA and that they use certified
renovators who are trained by EPA-approved training providers to
follow lead-safe work practices.

Contractors must use lead-safe work practices and follow these three
simple procedures:
Contain the work area.
Minimize dust.
Clean up thoroughly.
http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm

Those don't sound like things I wouldn't expect to be "professional"
SOP.

Of note: According to the sales manager of a smaller regional company
the replacement window market is so strong it was perfectly reasonable
for their CSR to decline to bid if my wife wouldn't agree to sit down
for a sales presentation. Bidding, he said, would be "a waste of
time".

*I can install my own windows, but I'm not so inclined, yet.

Any similar experiences out there?
-----

- gpsman


The new rules which went into effect in April of 2010 mandate that
contractors must test for lead and abate it before doing work.

A few paragraphs down from what you quoted it specifically states that
replacing windows and doors are not excepted by the square footage being
disturbed guidelines.

Your choices are pay, use a hack or do your own. The burden is on the
contractor so using a hack is a real option though I would do my own. You
as long as it is a single family residence not used for day care purposes
are except from the provisions.



--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

On 1/5/2011 5:36 PM, ransley wrote:
On Jan 5, 10:41 am, wrote:
*Got the first bid on replacement windows from a national company for
this 1939 hovel. Included is a "mandatory" per window "Lead
Renovation Fee" per "Federal Lead Containment Law".

Eh, something just don't seem right...

I Google and find:

4. Abatement does not include renovation, remodeling, landscaping or
other activities, when such activities are not designed to permanently
eliminate lead-based paint hazards, but, instead, are designed to
repair, restore, or remodel a given structure or dwelling, even though
these activities may incidentally result in a reduction or elimination
of lead-based paint hazards.http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/traincert.htm

EPA requires that firms performing renovation, repair, and painting
projects that disturb lead-based paint in pre-1978 homes, child care
facilities and schools be certified by EPA and that they use certified
renovators who are trained by EPA-approved training providers to
follow lead-safe work practices.

Contractors must use lead-safe work practices and follow these three
simple procedures:
Contain the work area.
Minimize dust.
Clean up thoroughly.http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm

Those don't sound like things I wouldn't expect to be "professional"
SOP.

Of note: According to the sales manager of a smaller regional company
the replacement window market is so strong it was perfectly reasonable
for their CSR to decline to bid if my wife wouldn't agree to sit down
for a sales presentation. Bidding, he said, would be "a waste of
time".

*I can install my own windows, but I'm not so inclined, yet.

Any similar experiences out there?
-----

- gpsman

Call a few companies that deal with Known windows that have a 20yr-
lifetime warranty by them selves, not a local made to order co. What
you describe is bs.

If the guy that shows up is driving a fancy car, has no calluses on his
hands, and has a slick brochure, go elsewhere. Such companies make most
of their money from their high-pressure in-house financing.

And yes, the 'lead abatement' routine will be just as bad as the
asbestos abatement scam was. Only ones getting rich will be the lawyers
and tyvek bunny suit makers. Never have your house tested, so you have
plausible deniability. Use common sense and simple protective gear when
scraping and repainting, keep the chips/dust out of the planting beds
and heater vents, and once you are done the odds are you will be
perfectly fine. Like asbestos, if the material is well contained, it is
not a significant risk until the house is demolished.

IMHO, IANAL, and so on, of course...

--
aem sends...

--
aem sends...