The pipe going through (uninsulated) garage wall to the outside faucet burst
for the second time. Although I turned off the shutoff valve feeding this
pipe and drained the water out, the valve turned back on slightly (due to
cold?) causing the pipe to fill with water again that eventually turned into
ice.

I'm sick of fixing this pipe. Interestingly it burst at exactly the same
spot as last year. I want to fix it once and for all.

Is there another type of pipe that can be used instead of copper that can
give a little and therefore cannot burst?
Or perhaps there is some long thin flexible material I can insert into the
pipe that takes up some space but not enough to hinder water flow, so that
when ice form this long thin flexible material would shrink to allow the ice
to expand?

Otherwise I would have to put a heat tape on this pipe. But the heat tape
says not to use it in enclosed wall, so that means I have to cut open a
section of the drywall to expose the pipe, in order to use the heat tape?

Hi,
You can use frost free faucet.

astraweb ($ to read) wrote:
The pipe going through (uninsulated) garage wall to the outside faucet burst
for the second time. Although I turned off the shutoff valve feeding this
pipe and drained the water out, the valve turned back on slightly (due to
cold?) causing the pipe to fill with water again that eventually turned into
ice.

I'm sick of fixing this pipe. Interestingly it burst at exactly the same
spot as last year. I want to fix it once and for all.

Is there another type of pipe that can be used instead of copper that can
give a little and therefore cannot burst?
Or perhaps there is some long thin flexible material I can insert into the
pipe that takes up some space but not enough to hinder water flow, so that
when ice form this long thin flexible material would shrink to allow the ice
to expand?

Otherwise I would have to put a heat tape on this pipe. But the heat tape
says not to use it in enclosed wall, so that means I have to cut open a
section of the drywall to expose the pipe, in order to use the heat tape?



Hi,
Tried fros free faucet? It'll hekp you drain the pipe after shtting the
line off.

astraweb ($ to read) wrote:
The pipe going through (uninsulated) garage wall to the outside
faucet burst for the second time. Although I turned off the shutoff
valve feeding this pipe and drained the water out, the valve turned
back on slightly (due to cold?) causing the pipe to fill with water
again that eventually turned into ice.

I'm sick of fixing this pipe. Interestingly it burst at exactly the
same spot as last year. I want to fix it once and for all.

Is there another type of pipe that can be used instead of copper that
can give a little and therefore cannot burst?
Or perhaps there is some long thin flexible material I can insert
into the pipe that takes up some space but not enough to hinder water
flow, so that when ice form this long thin flexible material would
shrink to allow the ice to expand?

Otherwise I would have to put a heat tape on this pipe. But the heat
tape says not to use it in enclosed wall, so that means I have to cut
open a section of the drywall to expose the pipe, in order to use the
heat tape?

Replace the faucet with a quality frost free faucet, or replace the shut off
valve with one that works right.

In eb.com,
astraweb ($ to read) typed:
The pipe going through (uninsulated) garage wall to the
outside faucet burst for the second time. Although I turned
off the shutoff valve feeding this pipe and drained the
water out, the valve turned back on slightly (due to cold?)
causing the pipe to fill with water again that eventually
turned into ice.
I'm sick of fixing this pipe. Interestingly it burst at
exactly the same spot as last year. I want to fix it once
and for all.
Is there another type of pipe that can be used instead of
copper that can give a little and therefore cannot burst?
Or perhaps there is some long thin flexible material I can
insert into the pipe that takes up some space but not
enough to hinder water flow, so that when ice form this
long thin flexible material would shrink to allow the ice
to expand?
Otherwise I would have to put a heat tape on this pipe. But
the heat tape says not to use it in enclosed wall, so that
means I have to cut open a section of the drywall to expose
the pipe, in order to use the heat tape?

Put in a freeze protected shutoff, AND fix the leaking shut off. Make sure
the line is free of water after the water's turned off. Learn from
experience.

On Dec 21, 2:44*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
astraweb ($ to read) wrote:



The pipe going through (uninsulated) garage wall to the outside
faucet burst for the second time. Although I turned off the shutoff
valve feeding this pipe and drained the water out, the valve turned
back on slightly (due to cold?) causing the pipe to fill with water
again that eventually turned into ice.

I'm sick of fixing this pipe. Interestingly it burst at exactly the
same spot as last year. I want to fix it once and for all.

Is there another type of pipe that can be used instead of copper that
can give a little and therefore cannot burst?
Or perhaps there is some long thin flexible material I can insert
into the pipe that takes up some space but not enough to hinder water
flow, so that when ice form this long thin flexible material would
shrink to allow the ice to expand?

Otherwise I would have to put a heat tape on this pipe. But the heat
tape says not to use it in enclosed wall, so that means I have to cut
open a section of the drywall to expose the pipe, in order to use the
heat tape?

Replace the faucet with a quality frost free faucet, or replace the shut off
valve with one that works right.

A frost free faucet only moves the shut off point 12" or so from the
faucet outlet. The OP indicates he may have a whole garage full of
frozen pipe ahead of that. I think a shut-off stop with a drain in a
heated location would be the answer.

astraweb ($ to read) wrote:
The pipe going through (uninsulated) garage wall to the outside
faucet burst for the second time. Although I turned off the shutoff
valve feeding this pipe and drained the water out, the valve turned
back on slightly (due to cold?) causing the pipe to fill with water
again that eventually turned into ice.

I'm sick of fixing this pipe. Interestingly it burst at exactly the
same spot as last year. I want to fix it once and for all.

Is there another type of pipe that can be used instead of copper that
can give a little and therefore cannot burst?
Or perhaps there is some long thin flexible material I can insert
into the pipe that takes up some space but not enough to hinder water
flow, so that when ice form this long thin flexible material would
shrink to allow the ice to expand?

Otherwise I would have to put a heat tape on this pipe. But the heat
tape says not to use it in enclosed wall, so that means I have to cut
open a section of the drywall to expose the pipe, in order to use the
heat tape?

PEX?

"HeyBub" wrote in message
news
astraweb ($ to read) wrote:
The pipe going through (uninsulated) garage wall to the outside
faucet burst for the second time. Although I turned off the shutoff
valve feeding this pipe and drained the water out, the valve turned
back on slightly (due to cold?) causing the pipe to fill with water
again that eventually turned into ice.

I'm sick of fixing this pipe. Interestingly it burst at exactly the
same spot as last year. I want to fix it once and for all.


PEX?

Maybe a combination of PEX and a 2 way type valve. One way goes to the
garage piping and the other way dumps the water out of the garage pipes to
the drain or ground when turned off.

On Dec 21, 2:26*pm, "astraweb \($ to read\)"
wrote:
Is there another type of pipe that can be used instead of copper that can
give a little and therefore cannot burst?
Or perhaps there is some long thin flexible material I can insert into the
pipe that takes up some space but not enough to hinder water flow, so that
when ice form this long thin flexible material would shrink to allow the ice
to expand?

Instead of trying to come up with cockamaime non-standard ways of
"fixing" the problem, why don't you fix the problem?

The problem is the leaky/faulty shut off valve inside the house.

Repair or replace that valve. Problem solved.

Also, leave the outside valve OPEN during the winter. If the inside
valve is leaking this will prevent the pipe from filling up with water
and bursting. Any leakage will run out on the ground.

On Dec 21, 4:39*pm, wrote:
On Dec 21, 2:26*pm, "astraweb \($ to read\)"
wrote:

Is there another type of pipe that can be used instead of copper that can
give a little and therefore cannot burst?
Or perhaps there is some long thin flexible material I can insert into the
pipe that takes up some space but not enough to hinder water flow, so that
when ice form this long thin flexible material would shrink to allow the ice
to expand?

Instead of trying to come up with cockamaime non-standard ways of
"fixing" the problem, why don't you fix the problem?

The problem is the leaky/faulty shut off valve inside the house.

Repair or replace that valve. Problem solved.

Also, leave the outside valve OPEN during the winter. If the inside
valve is leaking this will prevent the pipe from filling up with water
and bursting. Any leakage will run out on the ground.

My two cents:

If the shutoff valve inside the house is leaking, then replace the
valve. The existing one
and the new one should have a small drain cap that you can remove to
let the water drain out of the pipe.
Also, if the existing one has a drain and you left the drain cap off,
any small amount of water that
got by would simply run out of the drain and then the pipe would not
fill with water. A temporary
solution, if the valve is leaking, might be to put a 5 gallon bucket
under the shutoff valve drain. If that's the
only problem, then the solution is simple.

Another problem could be the way the pipe is pitched between the
shutoff and the sill cock. If its
not pitched back toward the valve, it won't drain. Possible solution
to that would be to re-pitch
the pipe.

Some folks have suggested a frost-proof sill cock. That works as
long as the temp inside the garage does not
drop low enough to freeze the pipe there. Could work in some
climates, depending on how cold the garage gets.
But if you have exposed pipe in the garage that's full of water, that
could freeze if it gets cold enough. You could
put heat tape on the pipe in the garage together with a frost-proof
sill cock.

I also have to disagree with leaving the sill cock open to allow any
leakage water to run out. While it will
let that happen, it won't prevent it from freezing a bursting
anyway. A steady flow at a decent pace would,
but a slow drip from a bad shutoff valve won't provide enough flow to
prevent freezing.

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 11:26:28 -0800, "astraweb \($ to read\)"
wrote:

The pipe going through (uninsulated) garage wall to the outside faucet burst
for the second time. Although I turned off the shutoff valve feeding this
pipe and drained the water out, the valve turned back on slightly (due to
cold?) causing the pipe to fill with water again that eventually turned into
ice.

I'm sick of fixing this pipe. Interestingly it burst at exactly the same
spot as last year. I want to fix it once and for all.

Is there another type of pipe that can be used instead of copper that can
give a little and therefore cannot burst?
Or perhaps there is some long thin flexible material I can insert into the
pipe that takes up some space but not enough to hinder water flow, so that
when ice form this long thin flexible material would shrink to allow the ice
to expand?

Otherwise I would have to put a heat tape on this pipe. But the heat tape
says not to use it in enclosed wall, so that means I have to cut open a
section of the drywall to expose the pipe, in order to use the heat tape?


Buy and install a "frostproof hydrant" - and make SURE to disconnect
any hose on the cold side. It shuts off on the warm side - and if it
can drain on the cold side it cannot split. It is IMPERITIVE that the
hose be disconnected from the cold side.

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:39:43 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Dec 21, 2:26Â*pm, "astraweb \($ to read\)"
wrote:
Is there another type of pipe that can be used instead of copper that can
give a little and therefore cannot burst?
Or perhaps there is some long thin flexible material I can insert into the
pipe that takes up some space but not enough to hinder water flow, so that
when ice form this long thin flexible material would shrink to allow the ice
to expand?

Instead of trying to come up with cockamaime non-standard ways of
"fixing" the problem, why don't you fix the problem?

The problem is the leaky/faulty shut off valve inside the house.

Repair or replace that valve. Problem solved.

Also, leave the outside valve OPEN during the winter. If the inside
valve is leaking this will prevent the pipe from filling up with water
and bursting. Any leakage will run out on the ground.
ASSuming the pipe is properly sloped to the outside.

Yes, that's maddening. I've heard that Pex will expand with
the freeze. And will thaw out just fine. Your local hardware
store can tell you more. The others advice about sloping the
pipe, and such is good advice.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"astraweb ($ to read)" wrote in message
eb.com...
The pipe going through (uninsulated) garage wall to the
outside faucet burst
for the second time. Although I turned off the shutoff valve
feeding this
pipe and drained the water out, the valve turned back on
slightly (due to
cold?) causing the pipe to fill with water again that
eventually turned into
ice.

I'm sick of fixing this pipe. Interestingly it burst at
exactly the same
spot as last year. I want to fix it once and for all.

Is there another type of pipe that can be used instead of
copper that can
give a little and therefore cannot burst?
Or perhaps there is some long thin flexible material I can
insert into the
pipe that takes up some space but not enough to hinder water
flow, so that
when ice form this long thin flexible material would shrink
to allow the ice
to expand?

Otherwise I would have to put a heat tape on this pipe. But
the heat tape
says not to use it in enclosed wall, so that means I have to
cut open a
section of the drywall to expose the pipe, in order to use
the heat tape?

On Dec 21, 6:00*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Yes, that's maddening. I've heard that Pex will expand with
the freeze. And will thaw out just fine. Your local hardware
store can tell you more. The others advice about sloping the
pipe, and such is good advice.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"astraweb ($ to read)" wrote in messagenews:4d10ff63$0$29718$c3e8da3$f5af001f@news .astraweb.com...
The pipe going through (uninsulated) garage wall to the
outside faucet burst
for the second time. Although I turned off the shutoff valve
feeding this
pipe and drained the water out, the valve turned back on
slightly (due to
cold?) causing the pipe to fill with water again that
eventually turned into
ice.

I'm sick of fixing this pipe. Interestingly it burst at
exactly the same
spot as last year. I want to fix it once and for all.

Is there another type of pipe that can be used instead of
copper that can
give a little and therefore cannot burst?
Or perhaps there is some long thin flexible material I can
insert into the
pipe that takes up some space but not enough to hinder water
flow, so that
when ice form this long thin flexible material would shrink
to allow the ice
to expand?

Otherwise I would have to put a heat tape on this pipe. But
the heat tape
says not to use it in enclosed wall, so that means I have to
cut open a
section of the drywall to expose the pipe, in order to use
the heat tape?

Pex is little more tolerant of freezing but not completely. It will
expand a little but it won't collapse back when it thaws. So if you
freeze it a few times it will beak at some point.

As others have pointed out a shutoff in a heated location is the only
solution that really works. You must leave the outside faucet open.
And if the shutoff valve is leaking replace or repair it. And the
plumbing between the shutoff and the outside faucet must all slope
down to the outside faucet so that water does not pool in a section of
pipe.

astraweb ($ to read) wrote:
The pipe going through (uninsulated) garage wall to the outside faucet burst
for the second time. Although I turned off the shutoff valve feeding this
pipe and drained the water out, the valve turned back on slightly (due to
cold?) causing the pipe to fill with water again that eventually turned into
ice.

I'm sick of fixing this pipe. Interestingly it burst at exactly the same
spot as last year. I want to fix it once and for all.

Is there another type of pipe that can be used instead of copper that can
give a little and therefore cannot burst?
Or perhaps there is some long thin flexible material I can insert into the
pipe that takes up some space but not enough to hinder water flow, so that
when ice form this long thin flexible material would shrink to allow the ice
to expand?

Otherwise I would have to put a heat tape on this pipe. But the heat tape
says not to use it in enclosed wall, so that means I have to cut open a
section of the drywall to expose the pipe, in order to use the heat tape?




You might consider replacing the line with some CPVC or PVC and a
CPVC/PVC union, then just unhook the thing come winter and hook it back
up after the last freeze of spring. That's probably what I'd do....
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?ca..._Do_I_Need.htm

"astraweb ($ to read)" wrote in message
eb.com...
The pipe going through (uninsulated) garage wall to the outside faucet
burst for the second time. Although I turned off the shutoff valve feeding
this pipe and drained the water out, the valve turned back on slightly
(due to cold?) causing the pipe to fill with water again that eventually
turned into ice.

I'm sick of fixing this pipe. Interestingly it burst at exactly the same
spot as last year. I want to fix it once and for all.

Or perhaps there is some long thin flexible material I can insert into the
pipe that takes up some space but not enough to hinder water flow, so that
when ice form this long thin flexible material would shrink to allow the
ice to expand?
Is there another type of pipe that can be used instead of copper that
can
give a little and therefore cannot burst?

What grade of copper pipe are you using???? I had a similar problem in my
garage, even though I drained the pipe it split several years in a row. I
was using grade "M". Useless stuff, it will split open just thinking of
winter. I changed it over to type "L", a much heavier walled pipe and it has
been good for about 10 years. Yes, I drain the pipe, leave the valves all
open, including the drain valve, with the shutoff valve is about 40 feet
inside the house, but that "M" type just was a waste of time and money.