Hi,
I just finished pouring concrete for a small patio (4ftx7ft) this
evening.
How long should I wait until I lay flagstone onto it? A full 28days?
Also, what type of mortar glues the flagstone onto the concrete?
Thinset??
What about grouting between them?
Thanks for all responses!
Theodore

On 10/2/2010 9:57 PM, millinghill wrote:
Hi,
I just finished pouring concrete for a small patio (4ftx7ft) this
evening.
How long should I wait until I lay flagstone onto it? A full 28days?
Also, what type of mortar glues the flagstone onto the concrete?
Thinset??
What about grouting between them?
Thanks for all responses!
Theodore

If you wanted a flagstone patio, why did you pour a slab? If it freezes
where you are, at some point water will get under them, freeze, and pop
them loose. Around here, flagstone patios are laid on a sand bed, with
the grout lines done with something that locks together, but still
passes water.

--
aem sends...

"millinghill" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I just finished pouring concrete for a small patio (4ftx7ft) this
evening.
How long should I wait until I lay flagstone onto it? A full 28days?
Also, what type of mortar glues the flagstone onto the concrete?
Thinset??
What about grouting between them?
Thanks for all responses!
Theodore

Why did you pour a slab to put flagstone on it?

Jim

I'm with aem in wondering why you went to the expense of a concrete
slab to produce a poor base for flagstones. What part of the world
are you in? Is that how it is done there?

Too late now- but I'd have gone with flagstones on the *well prepared
bed*, or stamped concrete.

Based on my experience in freeze/thaw country I'll answer the
questions with best guesses-

millinghill wrote:

Hi,
I just finished pouring concrete for a small patio (4ftx7ft) this
evening.
How long should I wait until I lay flagstone onto it? A full 28days?

A few days should be fine.

Also, what type of mortar glues the flagstone onto the concrete?
Thinset??

I'd probably go that way at this point. Though an argument could be
made to float the flagstones on top of the slab so when it cracks, the
flagstones might survive- and give on the grout lines.

What about grouting between them?

That's kind of like asking 'what color car should I buy'. First you
need to decide how thick your flagstones are- how wide you like your
grout lines to look- then whether you want it to be smooth, gravelly,
or colored.

Once you decide on an effect- then ask how to achieve it.

Jim

On Oct 3, 8:53*am, "A. Baum" wrote:
On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 18:57:58 -0700, millinghill wrote:
Hi,
I just finished pouring concrete for a small patio (4ftx7ft) this
evening.
How long should I wait until I lay flagstone onto it? *A full 28days?
Also, what type of mortar glues the flagstone onto the concrete?
Thinset??
What about grouting between them?
Thanks for all responses!
Theodore

Bust up the concrete and re-pour it then stamp a flagstone pattern in it.
Nobody lays flagstone on concrete. Not at least on planet Earth.

There are reasons that it would be done that way. Just because you
haven't encountered them, doesn't mean there aren't valid reasons. In
any event, your advice is not advice, and that's what the OP was
asking for.

To the OP - you could use thinset or the same mortar that's used in
block laying. Mortar would be cheaper. If you are in freeze/thaw
territory you might want to add a latex additive to give the mortar
more elasticity and to improve the durability. You can lay the
flagstone, ummm, right about now - as soon as you can walk on it. The
setting mortar could also fill in between the flagstone -it's not a
necessity to do it in two steps, but it's probably easier to do it in
the two steps.

http://www.the-flagstone-experts.com...flagstone.html

R

Hi,
I just finished pouring concrete for a small patio (4ftx7ft) this
evening.
How long should I wait until I lay flagstone onto it? A full 28days?
Also, what type of mortar glues the flagstone onto the concrete?
Thinset??
What about grouting between them?
Thanks for all responses!
Theodore

Fergeddabout it. The flagstone is in various thicknesses, and now that you
have concrete, you will have to build up the concrete so that the top will
be flat. Or live with uneven concrete.

The slab will not be able to drain except for at the edges now that it's a
slab.

You can grout with any old grout by using a squeeze bag and carefully
filling voids. It is going to impossible to get the grout into all the
holes.

Said holes will fill with water, and freeze and thaw and freeze and your
stone will come off in layers and chunks in the future.

You really planned this out, didn't you?

Steve

On Oct 3, 10:58*am, "Steve B" wrote:
Hi,
I just finished pouring concrete for a small patio (4ftx7ft) this
evening.
How long should I wait until I lay flagstone onto it? *A full 28days?
Also, what type of mortar glues the flagstone onto the concrete?
Thinset??
What about grouting between them?
Thanks for all responses!
Theodore

Fergeddabout it. *The flagstone is in various thicknesses, and now that you
have concrete, you will have to build up the concrete so that the top will
be flat. *Or live with uneven concrete.

You've never worked with gauged stone, have you?

The slab will not be able to drain except for at the edges now that it's a
slab.

How do grouted joints drain on any patio?

You can grout with any old grout by using a squeeze bag and carefully
filling voids. *It is going to impossible to get the grout into all the
holes.

What holes are you talking about?

Said holes will fill with water, and freeze and thaw and freeze and your
stone will come off in layers and chunks in the future.

You are making some assumptions. Flagstone is a broad term, and
people use it to refer to many different types of stone. How do you
know that he's not planning on using gauged flagstone? He'll be
setting the flagstone in a setting bed of mortar - if that is done
correctly, I don't understand where these holes are coming from.
There will be complete contact between stone and mortar whether he
uses gauged stone or not..

You really planned this out, didn't you?

How is this any different than someone who bought a house with a
concrete slab patio and wants to dress it up with flagstone? It's
done all of the time and it's not a particularly big deal, is it? You
play the hand you're dealt - he's been dealt a slab. It's there.
Move on to how to deal with it.

More to the point - it's a farkin 4' x 7' patio! Even if the thing
blows up on him (no reason it should), it won't exactly ruin the guy's
life. The stone can be pulled up and can be reused. We call this a
learning experience. If the OP doesn't go off half cocked from here,
there's no reason he needs to have a difficult learning experience.

R

On Oct 3, 11:16*am, "A. Baum" wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 07:57:44 -0700, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 3, 8:53*am, "A. Baum" wrote:
On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 18:57:58 -0700, millinghill wrote:
Hi,
I just finished pouring concrete for a small patio (4ftx7ft) this
evening.
How long should I wait until I lay flagstone onto it? *A full 28days?
Also, what type of mortar glues the flagstone onto the concrete?
Thinset??
What about grouting between them?
Thanks for all responses!
Theodore

Bust up the concrete and re-pour it then stamp a flagstone pattern in
it. Nobody lays flagstone on concrete. Not at least on planet Earth.

There are reasons that it would be done that way. *Just because you
haven't encountered them, doesn't mean there aren't valid reasons. *In
any event, your advice is not advice, and that's what the OP was asking
for.

How many have you encountered?

A few. Things that required concrete - the owner already had the slab
(like the OP does), soil conditions, traffic load, drainage conditions
(separate from soil conditions), climate conditions, etc.
Alternatives to a concrete slab can be compacted soil cement or sand/
cement. Price and local conditions usually determining the tipping
point between the choices. On a 4' x 7' patio (~1/3 cubic yard) the
potential price and labor difference would be minimal.

To further your education:
http://www.askthebuilder.com/536-Fla...-on-Sand.shtml
http://www.contractortalk.com/f7/fla...oncrete-11374/
http://www.irwinstone.com/more-infor...-concrete-base
It's quite surprising how many hits I got from stone yards. Well,
maybe surprising to you, but not that the people who deal with the
stuff on a daily basis know what they're doing.

Flagstone can be dry set, most of the time, but there is abso-farkin-
lutely nothing wrong with putting it on a concrete slab, so if it's
not ever done that way on your planet Earth it seems you planet is in
the Bizarro realm.

R

On Oct 3, 12:06*pm, "A. Baum" wrote:
On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 11:47:58 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

Bust up the concrete and re-pour it then stamp a flagstone pattern in
it. Nobody lays flagstone on concrete. Not at least on planet Earth.

The OP did not say he lived up in the frozen north. I have about 2300
square feet of flagstone over concrete and I wouldn't have it any other
way.

Well good for you. What the **** do you want a door prize?

No, of course he doesn't. He's just pointing out that you don't know
what the hell you're talking about.

If you're going to give bad advice, grow some thicker skin.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Oct 3, 8:53 am, "A. Baum" wrote:
On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 18:57:58 -0700, millinghill wrote:
Hi,
I just finished pouring concrete for a small patio (4ftx7ft) this
evening.
How long should I wait until I lay flagstone onto it? A full 28days?
Also, what type of mortar glues the flagstone onto the concrete?
Thinset??
What about grouting between them?
Thanks for all responses!
Theodore

Bust up the concrete and re-pour it then stamp a flagstone pattern in it.
Nobody lays flagstone on concrete. Not at least on planet Earth.

There are reasons that it would be done that way. Just because you
haven't encountered them, doesn't mean there aren't valid reasons. In
any event, your advice is not advice, and that's what the OP was
asking for.

To the OP - you could use thinset or the same mortar that's used in
block laying. Mortar would be cheaper. If you are in freeze/thaw
territory you might want to add a latex additive to give the mortar
more elasticity and to improve the durability. You can lay the
flagstone, ummm, right about now - as soon as you can walk on it. The
setting mortar could also fill in between the flagstone -it's not a
necessity to do it in two steps, but it's probably easier to do it in
the two steps.

http://www.the-flagstone-experts.com...flagstone.html

R

---

heh

That's why I asked "why". It's a very small patio and seemed like an odd
thing to do.

Jim

Sorry to cause such dissention.

Here's clarification/details:
House is in NY State.
I've seen some houses in neighborhood with rectangular-cut flagstone
steps (treads) set on concrete risers (definitely not sand) with some
type of mortar between joints, leading to rectangular-cut flagstone
porch at their front door set on something very hard (must be
concrete). Definitely no grass or sand between joints... they're hard
joints. I want to do similar. Hope this clarifies. Opinions
appreciated.

Some replies below beg a technical rebuttal: are flagstone more prone
to freeze/thaw popping than, say, ceramic or granite or terracotta
tile?? I had terracotta tile on the previous porch for 20+ years
without a problem. Opinions appreciated.

Regards,
Theodore.

replying to JimT, drgnslayr wrote:
You have to use a concrete base if your installing flagstone on clay soil. if
you don't you will experience major buckling probably after your first big
rain storm.

You want a 4" slab with steel mesh and rebar, on 3" of compacting concrete
crush.

I'm in the process of doing one of these now. A 3,000 sq ft flagstone patio
around a pool. The soil is clay. All the water drains either in floor drains
or off the edge into perimeter drains to prevent too much water edging in
around the perimeter.

There are no short cuts in laying stone. Those short cuts always come back to
cost you in the end. Would you prefer spending more now to do it right, or
have to re-do it in 5 years or less? How costly will that be? And also
disrupting your life.

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...io-549899-.htm

replying to gfretwell, drgnslayr wrote:
To prevent freeze/thaw situations where the stone pops up you need to think
about two things. First.. make sure there are no air pockets between your
flagstone and mortar bed... also in your grout. You need to wiggle the
flagstones when you install them and use a mallet to tap them into place. Air
pockets can later fill with water, which can freeze and pop your stone.
Also... add a polymer hardener to your grout if it doesn't already have
something in it. Last, use a quality seal product on your finished patio. You
are trying to reduce the porousness of your grout.



--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...io-549899-.htm

On Wed, 07 Sep 2016 21:14:01 +0000, drgnslayr wrote:

or have to re-do it in 5 years or less?

Well, since he did it *SIX YEARS AGO* it must _already_ be a crumbling
mess. Right? Thank you for that advice.

Why don't you HomeOwnersNoobs ever read the damn dates of stuff you reply
to???

On Wednesday, September 7, 2016 at 5:24:36 PM UTC-4, Sam Hill wrote:
On Wed, 07 Sep 2016 21:14:01 +0000, drgnslayr wrote:

or have to re-do it in 5 years or less?

Well, since he did it *SIX YEARS AGO* it must _already_ be a crumbling
mess. Right? Thank you for that advice.

Why don't you HomeOwnersNoobs ever read the damn dates of stuff you reply
to???

I don't get it either. If you look at the thread over there, it's
clearly marked with the date. Then again it could be spammers who
revive it to generate traffic for Home Moaners.

On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 21:24:32 -0000 (UTC), Sam Hill
wrote:

Why don't you HomeOwnersNoobs ever read the damn dates of stuff you reply
to???

Are you asking for miracles?