in the last 3 years i bought a GE refrigerator, a Jenn Air oven and a
whirlpool dishwasher.

within 2 years, ALL of them blew out their control boards. anyone
have any idea what's up with all this? who the hell needs control
boards in refrigerators or dishwashers or ovens? this is ridiculous
and seems to be an effort by companies to create repair business.

On Sep 22, 5:09*am, bpuharic wrote:
in the last 3 years i bought a GE refrigerator, a Jenn Air oven and a
whirlpool dishwasher.

within 2 years, ALL of them blew out their control boards. *anyone
have any idea what's up with all this? who the hell needs control
boards in refrigerators or dishwashers or ovens? this is ridiculous
and seems to be an effort by companies to create repair business.

I bet you had a big surge or a nearby lightning strike, or you
presently dont get clean power. I had lightning nearby blow out over
10,000$ worth of stuff, since then I installed a main panel lightning
arrestor and surge protector , individual surge protectors and
upgraded ground. Start by checking you have 120 or so then look into
protection. Is your area hit by lightning often.

in the last 3 years i bought a GE refrigerator, a Jenn Air oven and a
whirlpool dishwasher.

within 2 years, ALL of them blew out their control boards. anyone
have any idea what's up with all this? who the hell needs control
boards in refrigerators or dishwashers or ovens? this is ridiculous
and seems to be an effort by companies to create repair business.

I bet you had a big surge or a nearby lightning strike, or you
presently dont get clean power. I had lightning nearby blow out over
10,000$ worth of stuff, since then I installed a main panel lightning
arrestor and surge protector , individual surge protectors and
upgraded ground. Start by checking you have 120 or so then look into
protection. Is your area hit by lightning often.



*I would also check the grounding electrode system. Check the ground rod
connections. If it is an old house, install new ground rods. Check the
water pipe connection. Make sure the ground connections are tight in the
main panel.

On 9/22/2010 7:17 AM, John Grabowski wrote:
in the last 3 years i bought a GE refrigerator, a Jenn Air oven and a
whirlpool dishwasher.

within 2 years, ALL of them blew out their control boards. anyone
have any idea what's up with all this? who the hell needs control
boards in refrigerators or dishwashers or ovens? this is ridiculous
and seems to be an effort by companies to create repair business.

It smartens everything up, you can better "mileage" out of your
electricity. The cycling has gotten sophisticated, not sure what the
advantage would be for an oven but it is substantial for devices with
compressors in them.


I bet you had a big surge or a nearby lightning strike, or you
presently dont get clean power. I had lightning nearby blow out over
10,000$ worth of stuff, since then I installed a main panel lightning
arrestor and surge protector , individual surge protectors and
upgraded ground. Start by checking you have 120 or so then look into
protection. Is your area hit by lightning often.



*I would also check the grounding electrode system. Check the ground rod
connections. If it is an old house, install new ground rods. Check the
water pipe connection. Make sure the ground connections are tight in the
main panel.


That, I think is excellent advise.

I think it's time to redo my grounding (on the cold water line).
Grounding wasn't so important in '29!

Jeff

wrote:

Although you always want the cold water line BONDED to the grounding
system, it should never be THE ground. In fact, it does not meet code
for that use. For that you need a properly installed grounding rod at
the service entrance.

The purpose of attaching the electrical ground to a water pipe is not to
ground the electrical system, it's to ground the plumbing system.

HeyBub wrote:
wrote:
Although you always want the cold water line BONDED to the grounding
system, it should never be THE ground. In fact, it does not meet code
for that use. For that you need a properly installed grounding rod at
the service entrance.

The purpose of attaching the electrical ground to a water pipe is not to
ground the electrical system, it's to ground the plumbing system.


I really don't understand where this nonsense comes from.

The NEC *requires* that a water service pipe, if it is at least 10 ft of
metal in the earth, be used as an earthing electrode. It has been a
requirement since 1777 (more or less). Also bonding is required across
the water meter.

Rules have changed somewhat, including now the connection to the water
service pipe must be within 5 feet of where the pipe enters the building.

For over 50 years the NEC has required a "supplemental" electrode for
water pipe electrodes *if* the water service pipe was likely to be
replaced by plastic. Years ago the code was changed to just routinely
require a "supplemental" electrode. Ground rods were routinely used. The
NEC requires the resistance to earth for a ground rod be 25 ohms or
less, or else 2 rods can be used. It is easiest to just install 2 rods.
Ground rods are a poor earthing electrode (25 ohms is slightly better
than nothing). A metal water service pipe is a good electrode,
particularly if connected to a metal municipal water system. The code
now requires, for most new construction, a "concrete encased electrode",
commonly called a Ufer ground, be an earthing electrode. This is a good
electrode, and replaces the ground rod(s) as a supplemental electrode
when needed.

Only if the water service pipe is not metal does the NEC require
*bonding* of the interior water pipe (instead of using the service pipe
as an earthing electrode). The rules are similar, but not identical, to
use as an earthing electrode.

**************
In addition to checking the earthing system, I would check the
neutral-ground bond, which should be at the service disconnect. If it is
not present, the hot and neutral wire potential could rise far above the
ground wire, which in some cases cause damage. The bond is often a screw
that looks like a mounting screw for the neutral bar. Recent ones are
likely green.

--
bud--

On 9/22/2010 11:17 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:01:28 -0500,
wrote:

wrote:

Although you always want the cold water line BONDED to the grounding
system, it should never be THE ground. In fact, it does not meet code
for that use. For that you need a properly installed grounding rod at
the service entrance.

The purpose of attaching the electrical ground to a water pipe is not to
ground the electrical system, it's to ground the plumbing system.


That's what I said.

I believe he said that for my benefit, not to correct you.

I'll pick up some ground rods and rewire. I've only ever had modems
blow... not power. Still...

Jeff

wrote:
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:01:28 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:

Although you always want the cold water line BONDED to the grounding
system, it should never be THE ground. In fact, it does not meet
code for that use. For that you need a properly installed grounding
rod at the service entrance.

The purpose of attaching the electrical ground to a water pipe is
not to ground the electrical system, it's to ground the plumbing
system.


That's what I said.

Ah, I see. I didn't mean to correct you - you didn't need correcting - I was
just pointing out that the purpose of connecting a wire to the plumbing
system is to prevent someone from getting shocked by touching a pipe, not to
prevent a shock from touching a toaster.

ransley wrote:
On Sep 22, 5:09 am, bpuharic wrote:
in the last 3 years i bought a GE refrigerator, a Jenn Air oven and a
whirlpool dishwasher.

within 2 years, ALL of them blew out their control boards. anyone
have any idea what's up with all this? who the hell needs control
boards in refrigerators or dishwashers or ovens? this is ridiculous
and seems to be an effort by companies to create repair business.

I bet you had a big surge or a nearby lightning strike, or you
presently dont get clean power. I had lightning nearby blow out over
10,000$ worth of stuff, since then I installed a main panel lightning
arrestor and surge protector , individual surge protectors and
upgraded ground. Start by checking you have 120 or so then look into
protection. Is your area hit by lightning often.

Good point. A whole-house surge protector is in the neighborhood of $50-60
and is trivial to install in the circuit-breaker box.

On Sep 22, 6:09*am, bpuharic wrote:
in the last 3 years i bought a GE refrigerator, a Jenn Air oven and a
whirlpool dishwasher.

within 2 years, ALL of them blew out their control boards. *anyone
have any idea what's up with all this? who the hell needs control
boards in refrigerators or dishwashers or ovens? this is ridiculous
and seems to be an effort by companies to create repair business.

It does seem like you have bad luck with these. I'd suspect power
issues though most of them have switching power supplies these days
and can take a lot of abuse. I think you can get ovens and fridges
that are still mechanical but I'm not so sure about dishwashers. They
will be the "cheap" models though.

Control boards replacing mechnical controls statistically is more
reliable. Any time you replace moving parts with electronic ones the
outcome is generally better. It also allows for more features that
would not have been possible otherwise. It is also cheaper to
produce. Don't expect it to change.

jamesgangnc wrote:

Control boards replacing mechnical controls statistically is more
reliable. Any time you replace moving parts with electronic ones the
outcome is generally better. It also allows for more features that
would not have been possible otherwise. It is also cheaper to
produce. Don't expect it to change.

It is cheaper to produce. Period. If they sold replacements for corresponding
prices, it wouldn't be such a problem. Older, mechanical controls were virtually
immune to surge damage short of direct lightening strikes. The "modern"
electronic parts are obviously not well enough designed to claim equivalent
immunity. They could be, but that costs money.

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
in the last 3 years i bought a GE refrigerator, a Jenn Air oven and a
whirlpool dishwasher.

within 2 years, ALL of them blew out their control boards. anyone
have any idea what's up with all this? who the hell needs control
boards in refrigerators or dishwashers or ovens? this is ridiculous
and seems to be an effort by companies to create repair business.


I've heard many complaints about electronics in newer appliances. Seems
like the more "features" added, the lower the reliability.
Ranges are the worst, probably due to the heat. When we bought a new gas
range, one of the requirements was no electronics. We bought a Bertazzoni
range. All mechanical and works well.

Given the fact that you blew out three boards in two years, I'd check the
incoming voltage and add surge suppressors on the line incase of spikes.

On 2010-09-22, bpuharic wrote:

have any idea what's up with all this? who the hell needs control
boards in refrigerators or dishwashers or ovens? this is ridiculous
and seems to be an effort by companies to create repair business.

So, why do you keep buying appliances WITH control boards? I'm sure
someone still makes 'em without.

nb

notbob wrote:
....

So, why do you keep buying appliances WITH control boards? I'm sure
someone still makes 'em without.
....

If you can find one, it would be interesting where it might be and who
is producing it (and what its features/cost are/is)...

--

On 2010-09-22, dpb wrote:

If you can find one, it would be interesting where it might be and who
is producing it (and what its features/cost are/is)...

http://tinyurl.com/2523ckz

You can't tell me there aren't more.

You have to decide what you really want. You want digital clocks and
digital temp readouts and all that crap, you can't avoid control
boards. Myself, I can do without a clock on my stove jes fine cuz I
got one on the wall.

nb

On Sep 22, 7:55*am, dpb wrote:
notbob wrote:

...

So, why do you keep buying appliances WITH control boards? *I'm sure
someone still makes 'em without.

...

If you can find one, it would be interesting where it might be and who
is producing it (and what its features/cost are/is)...

--

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...285178 908930

Reminds me of the store that put up a big sign. Before I got my
digicam, or I'd have taken a picture.

They had moved all the shopping carts outside, the sign said "to serve
you better" to take cart before going into the store.

Supposedly the electronics makest the devices more responsive to your
needs and wishes.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
in the last 3 years i bought a GE refrigerator, a Jenn Air oven and a
whirlpool dishwasher.

within 2 years, ALL of them blew out their control boards. anyone
have any idea what's up with all this? who the hell needs control
boards in refrigerators or dishwashers or ovens? this is ridiculous
and seems to be an effort by companies to create repair business.

On Sep 22, 6:09 am, bpuharic wrote:
within 2 years, ALL of them blew out their control boards. anyone
have any idea what's up with all this?

Electronics many generations ago were required to withstand 600
volts transients without damage. Your damage is the 'canary in the
coalmine'. Nobody should have such transients. And such transients
are routinely averted when protector is earthed where wires enter the
building.

Well you had numerous small (but destructive) transients. What will
happen when the big one comes? Serious surges occur typically once
every seven years. Your 'dead' canary is reporting insufficient
protection. Others have said how easily protection is installed - at
about $1 per protected appliance. All appliances contain serious
protection. Due to insufficient protection at the service entrance,
you have transients that have overwhelmed that existing protection.
Listen to the dead canary.

westom wrote:

Well you had numerous small (but destructive) transients. What will
happen when the big one comes? Serious surges occur typically once
every seven years. Your 'dead' canary is reporting insufficient
protection. Others have said how easily protection is installed - at
about $1 per protected appliance. All appliances contain serious
protection. Due to insufficient protection at the service entrance,
you have transients that have overwhelmed that existing protection.
Listen to the dead canary.

Listen to the dead canary?

My dead canary sings opera. It's a real tweat to hear. Even the
transients like to come and loiter outside my window. I put up a "no
loitering" sign, and now they just stand around.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
westom wrote:

protection. Due to insufficient protection at the service entrance,
you have transients that have overwhelmed that existing protection.
Listen to the dead canary.

Listen to the dead canary?

On 9/22/2010 4:09 AM, bpuharic wrote:
in the last 3 years i bought a GE refrigerator, a Jenn Air oven and a
whirlpool dishwasher.

within 2 years, ALL of them blew out their control boards. anyone
have any idea what's up with all this? who the hell needs control
boards in refrigerators or dishwashers or ovens? this is ridiculous
and seems to be an effort by companies to create repair business.

You just answered your own question. Repair men need control boards
in such devices.