I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

On Sep 15, 12:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. *Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

FWIW, I installed 2 Toto's last year after cussing the 1.6's. Toto
had the patent on the flush design and was one of the very few
manufacturers who had a low flush toilet that actually worked. When
their patent ran out about 2 years ago, many manufacturers, including
AS, copied the design. Your toilet operates the exact way my Toto's
work. Press the handle for 1 sec for liquids and 2-3 sec. for
solids. Takes a bit of getting used to from the old ones, but not
long. The kicker though is visitors who don't know the secret.
You'll hear several flushes and mumbling coming from the bathroom when
they use it.

And I've never had a single problem with this design not moving solids
down the line. In fact just the opposite from the previous lf units
that gave me a lot of problems with that issue.

Red

On Sep 15, 4:47*pm, Red wrote:
On Sep 15, 12:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:



I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. *Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

FWIW, I installed 2 Toto's last year after cussing the 1.6's. *Toto
had the patent on the flush design and was one of the very few
manufacturers who had a low flush toilet that actually worked. *When
their patent ran out about 2 years ago, many manufacturers, including
AS, copied the design. *Your toilet operates the exact way my Toto's
work. *Press the handle for 1 sec for liquids and 2-3 sec. for
solids. *Takes a bit of getting used to from the old ones, but not
long. *The kicker though is visitors who don't know the secret.
You'll hear several flushes and mumbling coming from the bathroom when
they use it.

And I've never had a single problem with this design not moving solids
down the line. *In fact just the opposite from the previous lf units
that gave me a lot of problems with that issue.

Red

Red,

Were your toilets designated as Dual Flush models?

As I pointed to our furry friend Fillet a bit earlier, the AS toilet I
installed is not designated as such nor is there anything on their
website, in the manual that came with my toilet or on the placard in
the store indicating a Dual Flush feature of my model.

AS does indeed carry a line of FloWise Dual Flush toilets with the
flush button on top, but that is a different product line than the
Cadet 3 flush system and the standard handle of my toilet. The AS Dual
Flush models all seem to use 1.6/0.8 GPF and are designated as Dual
Flush. I don't see any 1.28 GPF Dual Flush models on their site.

When I called AS Customer Service and asked them if I had to hold the
handle down for a second or 2 to flush it, he said yes and made no
mention of Dual Flush or of liquids vs. solids.

I gotta stand by my claim that I do not have a Dual Flush toilet, I
merely have a toilet where the flap closes too early if you don't hold
the handle down. I did find a couple of reviews on the web where the
owners made mention of the same issue. It may indeed *act* like Dual
Flush, but that doesn't make it a Dual Flush model by design.

On Sep 15, 5:49*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sep 15, 4:47*pm, Red wrote:



On Sep 15, 12:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. *Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

FWIW, I installed 2 Toto's last year after cussing the 1.6's. *Toto
had the patent on the flush design and was one of the very few
manufacturers who had a low flush toilet that actually worked. *When
their patent ran out about 2 years ago, many manufacturers, including
AS, copied the design. *Your toilet operates the exact way my Toto's
work. *Press the handle for 1 sec for liquids and 2-3 sec. for
solids. *Takes a bit of getting used to from the old ones, but not
long. *The kicker though is visitors who don't know the secret.
You'll hear several flushes and mumbling coming from the bathroom when
they use it.

And I've never had a single problem with this design not moving solids
down the line. *In fact just the opposite from the previous lf units
that gave me a lot of problems with that issue.

Red

Red,

Were your toilets designated as Dual Flush models?


It may indeed *act* like Dual
Flush, but that doesn't make it a Dual Flush model by design.

No, not designated as such. However as you state, the operation of
the large flush valve makes it *act* like a dual flush system. That's
normal operation, not a fault. Remember that this total design was
from the Japanese where saving water is a way of life. They did not
want the tank to empty with each flush unless necessary. Some
American designs took a different approach and called theirs dual
flush. No matter what you do or don't call it, if it acts, walks,
sounds like a duck..........

Red

On Sep 16, 5:40*pm, Red wrote:
On Sep 15, 5:49*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Sep 15, 4:47*pm, Red wrote:

On Sep 15, 12:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF
toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8”
trapway and a 3” flush valve.

The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you
have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper
closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush
seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My
other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start
a complete flush.

I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work.
Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.

Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?

The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small
amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they
enter the pipe. *Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease
in "flow force"?

Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but
what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons
enough to keep things moving through the pipe?

FWIW, I installed 2 Toto's last year after cussing the 1.6's. *Toto
had the patent on the flush design and was one of the very few
manufacturers who had a low flush toilet that actually worked. *When
their patent ran out about 2 years ago, many manufacturers, including
AS, copied the design. *Your toilet operates the exact way my Toto's
work. *Press the handle for 1 sec for liquids and 2-3 sec. for
solids. *Takes a bit of getting used to from the old ones, but not
long. *The kicker though is visitors who don't know the secret.
You'll hear several flushes and mumbling coming from the bathroom when
they use it.

And I've never had a single problem with this design not moving solids
down the line. *In fact just the opposite from the previous lf units
that gave me a lot of problems with that issue.

Red

Red,

Were your toilets designated as Dual Flush models?

It may indeed *act* like Dual
Flush, but that doesn't make it a Dual Flush model by design.

No, not designated as such. *However as you state, the operation of
the large flush valve makes it *act* like a dual flush system. That's
normal operation, not a fault. *Remember that this total design was
from the Japanese where saving water is a way of life. They did not
want the tank to empty with each flush unless necessary. *Some
American designs took a different approach and called theirs dual
flush. *No matter what you do or don't call it, if it acts, walks,
sounds like a duck..........

Red- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Remember that this total design was from the Japanese where
saving water is a way of life."

Some say it was the Australians, but let's not bicker on that point:

http://www.biotechnology-innovation....echnology.html

"If it acts, walks, sounds like a duck..."

Don't we usually end that line with "it's a duck?" ;-)

However, in the case of my toilet, not only don't I call it a duck,
the manufacturer doesn't call it a duck and the EPA doesn't call it a
duck:

Choose Toilets under Product Category and enter 2447.128 in the Model
Number search field at this site:

http://www.epa.gov/watersense/product_search.html

It's listed as a Single Flush unit.

Do they have ducks, in Australia?

"If it walks like a Koala, and talks like a Koala......"

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"DerbyDad03"
wrote in message
...


Some say it was the Australians, but let's not bicker on that point:

http://www.biotechnology-innovation....echnology.html

"If it acts, walks, sounds like a duck..."

Don't we usually end that line with "it's a duck?" ;-)

However, in the case of my toilet, not only don't I call it a duck,
the manufacturer doesn't call it a duck and the EPA doesn't call it a
duck:

Choose Toilets under Product Category and enter 2447.128 in the Model
Number search field at this site:

http://www.epa.gov/watersense/product_search.html

It's listed as a Single Flush unit.