On Jul 30, 10:37*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , N8N wrote:





On Jul 30, 9:22=A0am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article .=
com, N8N wrote:

On Jul 29, 11:14=3DA0pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
wrote:

Lots of steel "rework" boxed also have capability of installing from
the front, through the hole, with expanding "jaws" to hold to the
drywall

I don't see stuff like that at my local hardware store. Professionals =
get
all the good stuff.
Same here. Those just aren't available at the Big Boxen,

Yes, they are. You just haven't found them yet.

http://www.homedepot.
com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xno/R-100197582/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053

http://www.lowes.com/pd_74219-427-506_0_

Come to the store with me and show me where I can actually purchase
them.

I don't work there. Talk to the people that do.

and in fact,
even metal old work boxes and Madison hangers are hard to find,

Oddly enough, I have no trouble finding them.

although they do have them (and they are usually on different shelves
from each other, what's up with that?)

Different products are in different places. What's hard to understand about
that?

It makes no sense?

Think about it, if one product is worthless without the other and vice
versa, wouldn't it make sense to stock them close to each other?

So you expect to find nails on the same aisle as the 2x4s? When you go to the
grocery, you expect to find baking pans right next to the flour, or milk with
the cereal? Do they keep charcoal in the meat case?

Apples and oranges. They're in the same *section* just three shelves
up and five shelves over, or something. And God help you if you can't
find them and ask an associate where the Madison hangers are, unless
you *like* getting that bovine look of noncomprehension. That's what
I hate the most about Home Depot, really. Whereas once you invest the
half hour or so to figure out where everything is, you know know more
about what a store stocks than the people that work there.

nate

On Jul 30, 11:10*am, N8N wrote:
On Jul 30, 10:37*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:





In article , N8N wrote:

On Jul 30, 9:22=A0am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article .=
com, N8N wrote:

On Jul 29, 11:14=3DA0pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
wrote:

Lots of steel "rework" boxed also have capability of installing from
the front, through the hole, with expanding "jaws" to hold to the
drywall

I don't see stuff like that at my local hardware store. Professionals =
get
all the good stuff.
Same here. Those just aren't available at the Big Boxen,

Yes, they are. You just haven't found them yet.

http://www.homedepot.
com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xno/R-100197582/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053

http://www.lowes.com/pd_74219-427-506_0_

Come to the store with me and show me where I can actually purchase
them.

I don't work there. Talk to the people that do.

and in fact,
even metal old work boxes and Madison hangers are hard to find,

Oddly enough, I have no trouble finding them.

although they do have them (and they are usually on different shelves
from each other, what's up with that?)

Different products are in different places. What's hard to understand about
that?

It makes no sense?

Think about it, if one product is worthless without the other and vice
versa, wouldn't it make sense to stock them close to each other?

So you expect to find nails on the same aisle as the 2x4s? When you go to the
grocery, you expect to find baking pans right next to the flour, or milk with
the cereal? Do they keep charcoal in the meat case?

Apples and oranges. *They're in the same *section* just three shelves
up and five shelves over, or something. *And God help you if you can't
find them and ask an associate where the Madison hangers are, unless
you *like* getting that bovine look of noncomprehension. *That's what
I hate the most about Home Depot, really. *Whereas once you invest the
half hour or so to figure out where everything is, you know know more
about what a store stocks than the people that work there.

nate- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ah, but just think of the feeling you get when you encounter an
employee that actually knows what (s)he's talking about.

We've got 1.5 guys in our HD's plumbing department that know what
they're talking about. (one knows *everything*, the other is pretty
good). The first time I was looking into SharkBites, I luckily found a
guy who knew them inside and out, including sources for connectors
that HD didn't carry. I probably would have spent a lot more money and
effort if it hadn't been him in the aisle that day.

They've also got one guy in flooring that not only could answer my
questions, but came up with some creative solutions to deal with the
foyer floor after I installed a new entry door.

Electrical...well that's a different story. Other than getting them to
cut wire for me, I don't bother asking for help or suggestions.

RBM wrote:

Depending upon the box type and composition, clamps or connectors
may or may not be required. For metal boxes, I'm a big fan of the
Arlington button. They take up very little space and are easy to
use. Be sure to use boxes of adequate size for the size and amount
of cables you plan to use in each box.

I am curious...., why don't plastic boxes come with round knock-outs
like metal boxes have?

Instead of having to deal with the blue plastic bendable flaps, I
would much rather have a plastic box with round knock-out holes, and
then use Arlington buttons to secure the incoming wires.

You can get larger plastic boxes, like 4" square with knockouts, but
I've never seen them on single gang boxes. I'm not real sure that a
button will hold tight in a plastic box. It may be slightly thicker
than steel

That's the part I don't get. I wonder why they don't seem to make plastic
single gang boxes with knockouts instead of those annoying plastic bendable
flaps/tabs. Then either make Arlington buttons that work with them or be
able to use the metal connectors that are used with metal boxes.

N8N wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote:


http://www.lowes.com/pd_74219-427-506_0_

Come to the store with me and show me where I can actually purchase
them.

I found those boxes in the link at my locally owned Ace this morningm but
only in single gang. As I am putting in a 50A outlet, I need a double gang
box, and they don't have any double gang metal boxes with the screw wings
for old work (and I'll be damned before I put a 50A outlet in a flimsy blue
plastc box).

So, I picked up a metal new work box, and it looks like I'll get to open up
an access panel on the other side of the wall. Poop.

Jon

On Jul 30, 2:14*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
N8N wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_74219-427-506_0_

Come to the store with me and show me where I can actually purchase
them.

I found those boxes in the link at my locally owned Ace this morningm but
only in single gang. *As I am putting in a 50A outlet, I need a double gang
box, and they don't have any double gang metal boxes with the screw wings
for old work (and I'll be damned before I put a 50A outlet in a flimsy blue
plastc box).

So, I picked up a metal new work box, and it looks like I'll get to open up
an access panel on the other side of the wall. *Poop.

Jon

you can't take two of the single gang ones and gang them together?
Typically those boxes *are* only sold in single gang, but you can take
'em apart and put 'em back together for 2- or 3-gang applications.

nate

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:22:42 -0700 (PDT), N8N wrote:

On Jul 30, 8:16*am, keith wrote:
On Jul 30, 12:41*am, "Jon Danniken"





wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:14:11 -0700, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

wrote:

Lots of steel "rework" boxed also have capability of installing from
the front, through the hole, with expanding "jaws" to hold to the
drywall

I don't see stuff like that at my local hardware store.
Professionals get all the good stuff.

I bet they do. *Lowes and the BORG certainly do. *Perhaps you don't
know what you're looking at? *BTW, they're normally called "old work
boxes".

Well, I've seen the plastic boxes with the wings that flip out and tighten
up against the back of the drywall, and I do know the difference between
old-work and new-work. *Just haven't seen any metal boxes with a similar
feature.

Metal old-wiring boxes are available in every home improvement store
and larger hardware stores I've ever looked for such stuff in.
Instead of the flip-out tabs, they have a metal strip on the side that
deforms out behind the wall as the screw is turned, much like a molly-
bolt.

Around here, those are only available at supply houses. But
fortunately at least one of them is open on Saturday mornings.

On the way home from work I checked at the BORG. They carry two types of
steel old-wiring boxes here.

On 07/30/2010 09:04 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:22:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Jul 30, 8:16 am, wrote:
On Jul 30, 12:41 am, "Jon Danniken"





wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:14:11 -0700, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

wrote:

Lots of steel "rework" boxed also have capability of installing from
the front, through the hole, with expanding "jaws" to hold to the
drywall

I don't see stuff like that at my local hardware store.
Professionals get all the good stuff.

I bet they do. Lowes and the BORG certainly do. Perhaps you don't
know what you're looking at? BTW, they're normally called "old work
boxes".

Well, I've seen the plastic boxes with the wings that flip out and tighten
up against the back of the drywall, and I do know the difference between
old-work and new-work. Just haven't seen any metal boxes with a similar
feature.

Metal old-wiring boxes are available in every home improvement store
and larger hardware stores I've ever looked for such stuff in.
Instead of the flip-out tabs, they have a metal strip on the side that
deforms out behind the wall as the screw is turned, much like a molly-
bolt.

Around here, those are only available at supply houses. But
fortunately at least one of them is open on Saturday mornings.

On the way home from work I checked at the BORG. They carry two types of
steel old-wiring boxes here.

*shrug* so your borgs don't suck as bad as mine. Everything's cheaper
at the supply house anyway so for things electrical I don't bother with
the Borg, unless it's Sunday.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:02:44 -0400, Nate Nagel wrote:

On 07/30/2010 09:04 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:22:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Jul 30, 8:16 am, wrote:
On Jul 30, 12:41 am, "Jon Danniken"





wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:14:11 -0700, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

wrote:

Lots of steel "rework" boxed also have capability of installing from
the front, through the hole, with expanding "jaws" to hold to the
drywall

I don't see stuff like that at my local hardware store.
Professionals get all the good stuff.

I bet they do. Lowes and the BORG certainly do. Perhaps you don't
know what you're looking at? BTW, they're normally called "old work
boxes".

Well, I've seen the plastic boxes with the wings that flip out and tighten
up against the back of the drywall, and I do know the difference between
old-work and new-work. Just haven't seen any metal boxes with a similar
feature.

Metal old-wiring boxes are available in every home improvement store
and larger hardware stores I've ever looked for such stuff in.
Instead of the flip-out tabs, they have a metal strip on the side that
deforms out behind the wall as the screw is turned, much like a molly-
bolt.

Around here, those are only available at supply houses. But
fortunately at least one of them is open on Saturday mornings.

On the way home from work I checked at the BORG. They carry two types of
steel old-wiring boxes here.

*shrug* so your borgs don't suck as bad as mine. Everything's cheaper
at the supply house anyway so for things electrical I don't bother with
the Borg, unless it's Sunday.

I wouldn't even know where the supply houses are here and I doubt they're open
anytime outside of my normal work hours. The BORG and Lowes are only about
three miles from my house. For a couple of old-wiring boxes, cost isn't a
priority.

N8N wrote:
On Jul 30, 2:14 pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
N8N wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_74219-427-506_0_
Come to the store with me and show me where I can actually purchase
them.
I found those boxes in the link at my locally owned Ace this morningm but
only in single gang. As I am putting in a 50A outlet, I need a double gang
box, and they don't have any double gang metal boxes with the screw wings
for old work (and I'll be damned before I put a 50A outlet in a flimsy blue
plastc box).

So, I picked up a metal new work box, and it looks like I'll get to open up
an access panel on the other side of the wall. Poop.

Jon

you can't take two of the single gang ones and gang them together?
Typically those boxes *are* only sold in single gang, but you can take
'em apart and put 'em back together for 2- or 3-gang applications.

nate

I don't think an old work box is a particularly good idea for a 50A
receptacle. IMHO the box should be attached to something substantial,
not the wall.

--
bud--

On Jul 31, 12:56*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:02:44 -0400, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 07/30/2010 09:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:22:42 -0700 (PDT), *wrote:

On Jul 30, 8:16 am, *wrote:
On Jul 30, 12:41 am, "Jon Danniken"

*wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:14:11 -0700, "Jon Danniken"
*wrote:

wrote:

Lots of steel "rework" boxed also have capability of installing from
the front, through the hole, with expanding "jaws" to hold to the
drywall

I don't see stuff like that at my local hardware store.
Professionals get all the good stuff.

I bet they do. *Lowes and the BORG certainly do. *Perhaps you don't
know what you're looking at? *BTW, they're normally called "old work
boxes".

Well, I've seen the plastic boxes with the wings that flip out and tighten
up against the back of the drywall, and I do know the difference between
old-work and new-work. *Just haven't seen any metal boxes with a similar
feature.

Metal old-wiring boxes are available in every home improvement store
and larger hardware stores I've ever looked for such stuff in.
Instead of the flip-out tabs, they have a metal strip on the side that
deforms out behind the wall as the screw is turned, much like a molly-
bolt.

Around here, those are only available at supply houses. *But
fortunately at least one of them is open on Saturday mornings.

On the way home from work I checked at the BORG. *They carry two types of
steel old-wiring boxes here.

*shrug* so your borgs don't suck as bad as mine. *Everything's cheaper
at the supply house anyway so for things electrical I don't bother with
the Borg, unless it's Sunday.

I wouldn't even know where the supply houses are here and I doubt they're open
anytime outside of my normal work hours. *The BORG and Lowes are only about
three miles from my house. *For a couple of old-wiring boxes, cost isn't a
priority. *

Not a big deal for me, supply house is more convenient than all but
one HD, lower prices, competent staff, what's not to like?

nate

On Sun, 1 Aug 2010 09:31:03 -0700 (PDT), N8N wrote:

On Jul 31, 12:56*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:02:44 -0400, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 07/30/2010 09:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:22:42 -0700 (PDT), *wrote:

On Jul 30, 8:16 am, *wrote:
On Jul 30, 12:41 am, "Jon Danniken"

*wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:14:11 -0700, "Jon Danniken"
*wrote:

wrote:

Lots of steel "rework" boxed also have capability of installing from
the front, through the hole, with expanding "jaws" to hold to the
drywall

I don't see stuff like that at my local hardware store.
Professionals get all the good stuff.

I bet they do. *Lowes and the BORG certainly do. *Perhaps you don't
know what you're looking at? *BTW, they're normally called "old work
boxes".

Well, I've seen the plastic boxes with the wings that flip out and tighten
up against the back of the drywall, and I do know the difference between
old-work and new-work. *Just haven't seen any metal boxes with a similar
feature.

Metal old-wiring boxes are available in every home improvement store
and larger hardware stores I've ever looked for such stuff in.
Instead of the flip-out tabs, they have a metal strip on the side that
deforms out behind the wall as the screw is turned, much like a molly-
bolt.

Around here, those are only available at supply houses. *But
fortunately at least one of them is open on Saturday mornings.

On the way home from work I checked at the BORG. *They carry two types of
steel old-wiring boxes here.

*shrug* so your borgs don't suck as bad as mine. *Everything's cheaper
at the supply house anyway so for things electrical I don't bother with
the Borg, unless it's Sunday.

I wouldn't even know where the supply houses are here and I doubt they're open
anytime outside of my normal work hours. *The BORG and Lowes are only about
three miles from my house. *For a couple of old-wiring boxes, cost isn't a
priority. *

Not a big deal for me, supply house is more convenient than all but
one HD, lower prices, competent staff, what's not to like?

I've used supply houses for large jobs (different state). They were fine,
though the droids at the desk didn't really seem to want my business. I have
found the staff at HD and Lowes to be quite variable. Mostly indifferent but
some stores have quite competent staff. In VT, many in the electrical
department were electricians, some retired (Ohio HD employees were beyond
useless). Here, it's a mix; most at least want to help.

On Aug 1, 8:38*am, bud-- wrote:
N8N wrote:
On Jul 30, 2:14 pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
N8N wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_74219-427-506_0_
Come to the store with me and show me where I can actually purchase
them.
I found those boxes in the link at my locally owned Ace this morningm but
only in single gang. *As I am putting in a 50A outlet, I need a double gang
box, and they don't have any double gang metal boxes with the screw wings
for old work (and I'll be damned before I put a 50A outlet in a flimsy blue
plastc box).

So, I picked up a metal new work box, and it looks like I'll get to open up
an access panel on the other side of the wall. *Poop.

Jon

you can't take two of the single gang ones and gang them together?
Typically those boxes *are* only sold in single gang, but you can take
'em apart and put 'em back together for 2- or 3-gang applications.

nate

I don't think an old work box is a particularly good idea for a 50A
receptacle. IMHO the box should be attached to something substantial,
not the wall.

possibly true, but I was just trying to address his post which was
that he couldn't find two-gang old work boxes - I don't think that he
will, but that's not really a problem.

I guess it all depends on how often the appliance connected to it is
plugged in and unplugged. I probably would replace it with a new work
box at the next repaint, myself. Or if it were an area that had extra
paint, just go ahead and do it now.

nate

On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 11:58:05 -0500, "
wrote:

On Sun, 1 Aug 2010 09:31:03 -0700 (PDT), N8N wrote:

On Jul 31, 12:56Â*pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:02:44 -0400, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 07/30/2010 09:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:22:42 -0700 (PDT), Â*wrote:

On Jul 30, 8:16 am, Â*wrote:
On Jul 30, 12:41 am, "Jon Danniken"

Â*wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:14:11 -0700, "Jon Danniken"
Â*wrote:

wrote:

Lots of steel "rework" boxed also have capability of installing from
the front, through the hole, with expanding "jaws" to hold to the
drywall

I don't see stuff like that at my local hardware store.
Professionals get all the good stuff.

I bet they do. Â*Lowes and the BORG certainly do. Â*Perhaps you don't
know what you're looking at? Â*BTW, they're normally called "old work
boxes".

Well, I've seen the plastic boxes with the wings that flip out and tighten
up against the back of the drywall, and I do know the difference between
old-work and new-work. Â*Just haven't seen any metal boxes with a similar
feature.

Metal old-wiring boxes are available in every home improvement store
and larger hardware stores I've ever looked for such stuff in.
Instead of the flip-out tabs, they have a metal strip on the side that
deforms out behind the wall as the screw is turned, much like a molly-
bolt.

Around here, those are only available at supply houses. Â*But
fortunately at least one of them is open on Saturday mornings.

On the way home from work I checked at the BORG. Â*They carry two types of
steel old-wiring boxes here.

*shrug* so your borgs don't suck as bad as mine. Â*Everything's cheaper
at the supply house anyway so for things electrical I don't bother with
the Borg, unless it's Sunday.

I wouldn't even know where the supply houses are here and I doubt they're open
anytime outside of my normal work hours. Â*The BORG and Lowes are only about
three miles from my house. Â*For a couple of old-wiring boxes, cost isn't a
priority. Â*

Not a big deal for me, supply house is more convenient than all but
one HD, lower prices, competent staff, what's not to like?

I've used supply houses for large jobs (different state). They were fine,
though the droids at the desk didn't really seem to want my business. I have
found the staff at HD and Lowes to be quite variable. Mostly indifferent but
some stores have quite competent staff. In VT, many in the electrical
department were electricians, some retired (Ohio HD employees were beyond
useless). Here, it's a mix; most at least want to help.
I've found here the ones who WANT to help are totally incapable and
those who might be capable don't give a rat's ass, - and then there
are those who"know it all" but are wrong, wrong, wrong.
Like the one former phone company employee and licenced electrician
who INSISTED I needed 4 pair (cat 5) wire to wire an extention to a
Nortel Norstar digital phone system, when all the other 23 were wired
with single twisted pair wiring and were working perfectly that way
for over 8 years - - - - - .

On Sun, 1 Aug 2010 10:58:37 -0700 (PDT), N8N
wrote:

On Aug 1, 8:38Â*am, bud-- wrote:
N8N wrote:
On Jul 30, 2:14 pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
N8N wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_74219-427-506_0_
Come to the store with me and show me where I can actually purchase
them.
I found those boxes in the link at my locally owned Ace this morningm but
only in single gang. Â*As I am putting in a 50A outlet, I need a double gang
box, and they don't have any double gang metal boxes with the screw wings
for old work (and I'll be damned before I put a 50A outlet in a flimsy blue
plastc box).

So, I picked up a metal new work box, and it looks like I'll get to open up
an access panel on the other side of the wall. Â*Poop.

Jon

you can't take two of the single gang ones and gang them together?
Typically those boxes *are* only sold in single gang, but you can take
'em apart and put 'em back together for 2- or 3-gang applications.

nate

I don't think an old work box is a particularly good idea for a 50A
receptacle. IMHO the box should be attached to something substantial,
not the wall.

possibly true, but I was just trying to address his post which was
that he couldn't find two-gang old work boxes - I don't think that he
will, but that's not really a problem.

I guess it all depends on how often the appliance connected to it is
plugged in and unplugged. I probably would replace it with a new work
box at the next repaint, myself. Or if it were an area that had extra
paint, just go ahead and do it now.

nate
I generally use an old-work box and install it right at a stud so I
can screw it to the stud on one side, and let the "ears" hold it top
and bottom. for that kind of application.