On Jun 27, 11:07*pm, Molly Brown wrote:
On Jun 27, 7:17*am, "cshenk" wrote:





"Robert Green" wrote

"Molly Brown" wrote in message
I recommend buying a refrigerator that has its condenser coil on the
back and preferably covers the entire back and not just half way.

What are the other options and why are they not good?

Bottom or back are the options. *Back is easier if you can move the fridge
to clean the coils now and again. *They last longer but you have to
sporadically do that it seems. *Also you have to leave more freespace behind
with those models.

Bottom coil units don't get cleaned the same and seem to not need that.
Probably sounds to me like a better unit for your needs would be the bottom
fan type.

Are you kidding me? You should see some of the dust that I come across
every time I look at the condenser coil under peoples’ refrigerators.
Its like winter wonderland in an alternate universe down there.

I guess I'm an exception then. I'm not happy with the current fridge
in my house because I haven't a clue how to clean the coils. The last
one was bad enough. But the girl wanted a bottom-freezer, French door
model, so options were limited. I guess in the next year or so I will
have to make the effort to puzzle it out.

And yes, the old fridge (inherited from POs) had quite large dust
hares in residence underneath. I did clean it, shortly before it
started running all the time and making even more noise than usual.
It was dated 1988 though so I guess it didn't owe anyone anything.

nate

On 2010-06-29, The Daring Dufas wrote:
the fancy computer control of the the other folk's refrigerator. The
lesson being that you may want to forego fancy bells and whistles when
you choose a refrigerator.

No kidding. I've seen them with a comuter (PC) with touch screen on the
door. Lord knows what those cost to repair.

The one I had was that old GE/Amana/etc avocado-colored workhorse that
millions bought in the 60s. Frostless, top freezer, etc. I salvaged
mine cuz, despite still working, was not very efficient and I was
moving states away. OTOH, I knew of half a dozen just like it still
doing duty in ppl's homes (two on my block) as their primary or garage
beer fridge. My dog could repair it!

nb

On 6/29/2010 10:12 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2010-06-29, The Daring wrote:
the fancy computer control of the the other folk's refrigerator. The
lesson being that you may want to forego fancy bells and whistles when
you choose a refrigerator.

No kidding. I've seen them with a comuter (PC) with touch screen on the
door. Lord knows what those cost to repair.

The one I had was that old GE/Amana/etc avocado-colored workhorse that
millions bought in the 60s. Frostless, top freezer, etc. I salvaged
mine cuz, despite still working, was not very efficient and I was
moving states away. OTOH, I knew of half a dozen just like it still
doing duty in ppl's homes (two on my block) as their primary or garage
beer fridge. My dog could repair it!

nb

A KISS fridge? 8-)

TDD

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 10:12:01 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
om...

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
Our 17 cu. ft. refrigerator has finally gotten to the point where I
can't
find parts or keep it alive any longer and since older units are not
very
energy efficient, I have decided it's time for euthanasia.

So I am looking for an equivalent (or slightly smaller) unit as a
replacement.

Anyone have any recommendations as to brands and models? Don't want
to
spend a lot because we'll be moving soon and the unit will likely be
staying
behind. Don't need an icemaker or cold water dispenser, just a
straight-forward food cooler.

Thanks in advance for any input!

--
Bobby G.



I think you answered your own question when you said you do not want to
spend a lot and you are moving soon. If that is anything less than two
years, then look for the least expensive price and do not worry about
the
modle.

If I was wanting a good one, then it would be Whirlpool.

Thanks. We've been moving since 2008 when the real estate market tanked,
so
we could be here until the market "shakes out." How long that will be is
anyone's guess, but I suspect that by 2011, people will be unable to wait
out planned life changes much longer.

You *are* an optimist. 2011 is going to be the double-dip that Obama'a
actions demand. It'll be another five years before this mess gets
straightened out.

We'll see. Eventually fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly and people got to
sell their houses and move. I'm surprised it's stayed flat for so long but
as I recall, it was an insane seller's market in 2007 and now its an insane
buyer's market. The pendulum has to swing back at some point, and when it
does, I think it will be surprising how fast it moves. The problem is that
psychologically, everyone wants to either capture the false appreciation
that the bubble caused when they sell and not pay for someone else's false
appreciation when they buy. But houses in my neighbor have started to
sell - at about half the price of their highest during the boom.

My wife's decided she needs to
continue to work as long as she can instead of retiring last year because
the future is so uncertain. What was once a nice nest egg is a runny,
soft-boiled mess.

SWMBO would love to quit her job and retire but she got awfully tired of
staying home, too. I retired in '06. That lasted nine months. My
current
plan is to work another five to eight years. By then I'll have all the
toys I
need to retire in style. ;-)

Staying home is hard work. I miss the lunches out, the camaraderie, the
bigger paycheck and lots of other things. I don't miss the god-awful
commute and I've found that I make much more of a mess when I am home that I
ever did working. Somehow more projects get started than ever get finished.
Speaking of which, I signed on to get refrigerator advice, so . . .

--
Bobby G.

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"Robert Green" wrote
"cshenk" wrote in message

Or Freecycle. Whichever is locally better run. In my little neck, the
craigslist isnt well run but the Freecycle is. Just has to do with the
local moderator is all. I see Fridges (working) at least once a week.

Gawd, it's tempting, especially if I find someone who's willing to
deliver
and haul the old one away for some extra $. But I remember working on
the
refrigerator in the walkup I lived in. It was basically the Kingdom of
the
Roaches. I am sure experienced appliance repair folks have seen it
before.
Warm, dark, near food - a perfect roach mansion.

I am afraid I will be sticking with new units and looking for advice and
which have been the most trouble free for users.

No problem Bobby! Hey, here's one next idea. I have a local Maytag
repair
place who also sells refubished units. They provide installation and haul
away for a fee (40$). I've gotten many things there over time and always
had good luck.

That's a good idea. I'll check Google to see if I've got such a place. My
wife's pretty adamant about not getting a refurb so I might either have to
fix what we have or go for a new one.

My current fridge is an Amana, bought new 10 years ago and still going
strong. The one before it was a whirlpool that came with the house (age
unknown, may have been 35 or more).

My Westinghouse is over 35 years old and I've kept it going, but now I think
it has a coolant leak and that's going to be hard for me to deal with with a
bum knee (well, two, but one's much worse than the other - my wife calls
them the bad knee and the very, very bad knee).

When buying a new gas oven a bit ago, I looked at the fridges just for
ideas
on what they cost today and there were many small but decent models in the
400$ range at the local Lowes. If retired military, you also get a 10%
discount there. (I;m retired Navy, 26 years).

Ahoy, Chief! That's good to know. I was thinking of Lowes. I'll have
make sure to bring my ID.

While O6's and above would never admit it, the Navy only works because the
chiefs keep it running. What was your rating? E8? I have to admit, I had
a hard time keeping all the ratings and ranks in order, and just when I
thought I had it down, I got an exchange assignment where I had to learn
foreign ratings and ranks. Somewhere, tucked away in an attic carton, I
have my insignia flash cards.

In another thread (about BP) I mentioned how in the Navy, if a captain runs
his ship aground, he's out. While that sometimes is a bad thing (hard to
get people willing to command experimental craft like my dad designed) on
the whole, it makes the man at the top responsible for anything that goes
wrong and give him a great incentive to make sure nothing does. What's your
view?

At the Pentagon I didn't get to talk to many enlisted personnel. You can't
spit without hitting an O5 or above. It was always great to watch a phone
colonel come in from afar for his first Pentagon assignment. They usually
come from a place where they were in total command and the biggest of the
big cheeses but at the Pentagon they found themselves getting coffee for the
full colonels and generals that littered the place. Or worse yet one of the
million Assistant Undersecretary of Some Arcane Field of Defense civilians
roaming the halls.

I have a great Bupers/New Orleans story that I probably shouldn't tell on
line. Let's just say that the Navy has its own way of doing things and they
were damned if they were going to change their systems to match the other
services even though it was so ordained by the SecDef himself. I'll bet you
have stories to tell. with 26 years in. And more stripes and stars than a
tiger getting loose at the Academy Awards.

Here's a joke about nasal radiators:

How do you know if there's a Navy pilot at your fourth of July picnic?

He'll tell you.

And another about Ensigns:

What's the difference between a roomful of puppies and a room full of
Ensigns?

The puppies will stop whining eventually.

What's this got to do with refrigerators? (-:

I've got a buddy coming over and we're going to take one last look at
whether the old beast can be salvaged. It's gotten new gaskets, new
shelves, new fans, new door handle, door railing, and even added another
bulb and socket because it was dim inside and the wiring was already there
for it - on the deluxe models I assume.

I even cut a little hole in the freezer floor with a Dremel to see if the
coils had frozen over. That was the biggest issue with this box. A door
left ajar froze the coils. A plug in the drain line froze the coils, too.
I believe that the last time I defrosted the coils, I either cracked a
solder joint or put a pinhole leak in the coils. When it's working I can
feel/hear a lot more gurgling in the freezer coils than I used to.

But it's old with an old motor that's way less efficient than modern
compressor motors so there would be a payback in fixing it or finding
someone to recharge it and repair the leaks. Decisions, decisions. The
unit fails to keep up on hot days (we've gone green - or should I say
stinky) and turned off the central air, keeping only the bedroom cool with a
small window unit. So far, much cheaper - almost 1/4 the cost of the CAC,
but our central unit is an old, poorly installed inefficient SOB. It almost
works except for cooking. Even with a summer salad menu, it gets nasty. I
might have to put a second unit in the kitchen window for occasional use.

--
Bobby G.

On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 08:05:59 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 10:12:01 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
om...

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
Our 17 cu. ft. refrigerator has finally gotten to the point where I
can't
find parts or keep it alive any longer and since older units are not
very
energy efficient, I have decided it's time for euthanasia.

So I am looking for an equivalent (or slightly smaller) unit as a
replacement.

Anyone have any recommendations as to brands and models? Don't want
to
spend a lot because we'll be moving soon and the unit will likely be
staying
behind. Don't need an icemaker or cold water dispenser, just a
straight-forward food cooler.

Thanks in advance for any input!

--
Bobby G.



I think you answered your own question when you said you do not want to
spend a lot and you are moving soon. If that is anything less than two
years, then look for the least expensive price and do not worry about
the
modle.

If I was wanting a good one, then it would be Whirlpool.

Thanks. We've been moving since 2008 when the real estate market tanked,
so
we could be here until the market "shakes out." How long that will be is
anyone's guess, but I suspect that by 2011, people will be unable to wait
out planned life changes much longer.

You *are* an optimist. 2011 is going to be the double-dip that Obama'a
actions demand. It'll be another five years before this mess gets
straightened out.

We'll see.

Indeed. I propose that we won't like what we see.

Eventually fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly and people got to
sell their houses and move.

Not so much. People won't be trading up, or down. A few will be forced to
move for work. Most will not.

I'm surprised it's stayed flat for so long but
as I recall, it was an insane seller's market in 2007 and now its an insane
buyer's market. The pendulum has to swing back at some point, and when it
does, I think it will be surprising how fast it moves.

It happened that way in the early '80s, but only after Reagan/Volcker finally
killed inflation. We haven't yet seen the inflation that *must* follow this
bunch of drunken sailors.

The problem is that
psychologically, everyone wants to either capture the false appreciation
that the bubble caused when they sell and not pay for someone else's false
appreciation when they buy.

Often they *can't*. When you're upside-down money has a way of controlling
you.

But houses in my neighbor have started to
sell - at about half the price of their highest during the boom.

That's certainly dependant on location. That's certainly true for many areas
that saw the greatest appreciation. Corrections are like that.

My wife's decided she needs to
continue to work as long as she can instead of retiring last year because
the future is so uncertain. What was once a nice nest egg is a runny,
soft-boiled mess.

SWMBO would love to quit her job and retire but she got awfully tired of
staying home, too. I retired in '06. That lasted nine months. My
current
plan is to work another five to eight years. By then I'll have all the
toys I
need to retire in style. ;-)

Staying home is hard work. I miss the lunches out, the camaraderie, the
bigger paycheck and lots of other things. I don't miss the god-awful
commute and I've found that I make much more of a mess when I am home that I
ever did working.

My commute was only five miles, but yes, I busted my butt when I retired.
Well, I got sick for a couple of months, but then finished all those jobs I'd
started, but never finished, when I was working. ;-) Once I got all that
done, SWMBO declared that I could no longer make messes (the house was on the
market - messes don't work). I got *really bored, so found a job within a
couple of weeks. It was a contracting job out of state but I made out like a
bandit for a year.

Somehow more projects get started than ever get finished.
Speaking of which, I signed on to get refrigerator advice, so . . .

That's always true. We did just buy a refrigerator, but not what you're
looking for.

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2010-06-29, The Daring Dufas wrote:
the fancy computer control of the the other folk's refrigerator. The
lesson being that you may want to forego fancy bells and whistles when
you choose a refrigerator.

No kidding. I've seen them with a comuter (PC) with touch screen on the
door. Lord knows what those cost to repair.

The one I had was that old GE/Amana/etc avocado-colored workhorse that
millions bought in the 60s. Frostless, top freezer, etc. I salvaged
mine cuz, despite still working, was not very efficient and I was
moving states away. OTOH, I knew of half a dozen just like it still
doing duty in ppl's homes (two on my block) as their primary or garage
beer fridge. My dog could repair it!

Does your dog make house calls? He's the right height to get to the
compressor and probably doesn't have bad knees.

The temperature of the upper and lower compartments follows the room
temperature, no matter where the dials are set. The problem has been coming
on slowly, and started last summer. Since we've moved away from AC and the
kitchen can run from 60F to 90F, it's only a problem when the air temp is
above 76F.

It used to go below -10F. Now it rarely goes below 8F (I know because I
bought a great wireless refrigerator thermometer set with hi/lo memories
some recommended here).

I've had to defrost it several times manually (and impatiently - I didn't
just let it stand, I used hot water and a hair dryer to defrost it) from the
door being left ajar on a humid night and the freezer coil condensate drain
hose getting plugged. I believe the last time this happened I may have put
a pinhole leak in the unit, although I haven't tested for it. Could also be
that after 30+ years, this old White-Westinghouse has bitten the dust.
Compressors don't last forever.

I just pulled the freeze floor up to check the coils and the fan. The coils
were really gurgling, a lot more than I remembered and I know from car A/C
work that gurgling usually means low refrigerant. From what I read, finding
the leak, repairing and recharging it are a little out of my league. I
might pay a reasonable amount to have it done, but I also know that old cars
and appliances reach an age where they can out-cost a new one in repairs and
efficiency.

So, ask your dog: am I right that this isn't a job for a formerly handy
person who can't get down on his knees if the good lord commanded it?

--
Bobby G.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 08:36:20 -0400, "Robert Green"

wrote:

wrote in message
news
On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 08:05:59 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

stuff snipped

Staying home is hard work. I miss the lunches out, the camaraderie,
the
bigger paycheck and lots of other things. I don't miss the god-awful
commute and I've found that I make much more of a mess when I am home
that I
ever did working.

My commute was only five miles, but yes, I busted my butt when I
retired.
Well, I got sick for a couple of months, but then finished all those
jobs
I'd
started, but never finished, when I was working. ;-) Once I got all
that
done, SWMBO declared that I could no longer make messes (the house was
on
the
market - messes don't work). I got *really bored, so found a job
within a
couple of weeks. It was a contracting job out of state but I made out
like a
bandit for a year.

My wife declared a moratorium on science projects - anything with
trailing
wires or flashing lights - so we could show the house. But after having
troops of looky-lous but no firm contracts we decided we would sell
*after*
we moved even though that will limit seriously what we can buy.

Yeah, they are that way. Since I wasn't working there was no way to buy a
house without selling the one we had. I got an apartment in Ohio and went
alone while she sold the place, which she did in three months. Actually,
the
buyers made an offer about the time I left but they wanted the contract
contingent on their house selling. Since we had just put the house on the
market, I didn't like that idea. They sold three months later and bought
ours. I should have accepted the contingency. :-/

One day I will learn not to beat myself up over not having 20-20 hindsight.
It's not today, though. We almost sold and moved just before the crash but
mom got cancer and that took all our spare time and then some. 2008 was a
bad, bad year in so many ways . . .

I think empty houses always sell for more - just because they look
bigger,
but that's just personal observation. I am sure others have seen the
reverse.

All agents I know (and my wife worked for many) have told us the opposite.
People want to visualize how the layout works. For example, a bedroom is
easier to size up if there is a bed in it. Beds are standard so even if
it's
a queen and you have a king it's easier to visualize the fit than if there
is
nothing. In fact there are companies that just do "staging" for this
purpose.

We've got an unusally small home and lots of stuff. Agents were always
telling us to put as much as we could in storage. I guess the idea is to
have it looked "lived in" but not like a packrat's burrow. (-: Now my
wife wants me to get rid of the 20 or so PC's I've built starting with my
first IBM clone in 1985. They're lined up against the basement wall, doing
nothing, so I suppose it's time but it's so hard to dispose of something
you've spent so much time on, even if it's worthless now. I've promised I
would as soon as I've copied all the data off them. Ahem.

We're still not 100% on where we're going. It *was* San Diego, but both
the
city AND the state are in serious trouble so we're waiting until she
stops
working to get serious. Last two assignments have been abroad, next one
might be, too. It's strange how much a bad market can change all your
plans
if it hits at exactly the wrong time. I guess there's never a right
time.

I thought '07 was a bad time to sell, until '08 and '09. I found a
regular
job in '08, so we moved to Alabama and bought a house. We probably should
have rented before we bought but a year in an apartment was about all I
could
take. ;-)

That's what we're thinking. Renting before buying. That will give the
market time to recover but sometimes I wonder if it ever will.

Housing demand is really "adjustable" in that kids can move back in with
their parents when they get in a jam. I know several folks whose kids are
back in the nest and no one is happy about it, neither the kids nor the
parents.

I just read an article that said in NYC they have begun stringent
enforcement of partitioning laws to prevent people from taking apartments
and chunking them up into smaller units by dividing the LR into two more
bedrooms. The cause was the death of some firefighters whom the city claims
died because they became disoriented fighting a fire in an illegally
partitioned apartment.

BTW, we bit the bullet and bought a new GE fridge. It's SO quiet compared
to the old one but more importantly, it uses 1/4 the juice the old one did.
We should have done it much, much sooner. I was astounded when I compared
the Kill-o-Watt readings. Some of the reasons are obvious - the doors and
walls are perhaps three times as thick as the old unit and I am sure that
the motor is much more efficient.

I was worried from reports on the web that it wouldn't cool as quickly as
the old one, but it cooled quickly enough for my taste. $600 (included an
additonal two year warranty) but worth it - AND - we stimulated the economy!
Got it from HomeDespot and I must say, it was pretty painless (except for
the $ part) once a salesman actually showed up in appliances - took 20
minutes! The guys they sent were pros - had to take the side door off
(which we never use and whose hinge pins had rusted). Thank God for WD-40.
A two minute soak and that pin popped right out.

These two very small Hispanic guys managed to navigate some very awkward
turns by carrying it between them with just a big strap underneath. I was
impressed - not a scratch or mark anywhere. Showed up two hours early, too.
Took away the old box too, for free. Delivery and set-up was done by a
company called HBI - they also called three times after the install to make
sure I was happy. Good deal.

We figured that we could be staying here for a while so why not be happy and
cut the electric bill at the same time? Of course, now that we've made the
purchase, we'll find the perfect real estate deal.

--
Bobby G.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 10:42:31 -0400, "Robert Green"

wrote:


"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
m...

"notbob" wrote in message
...
As an example, I was given a fairly new GE refrigerator that was not
running. I'm pretty good at repairing appliances and figured I
could
get this one back online, no problem. PROBLEM! I discovered the
failure was due to a bad temp controller and I went down to my local
appliance parts place, and gave them the model and serial number. I
knew and trusted these guys, from long association, and they told me
this particular model, a low end one, was not worth the effort.
They
said the specialized tool needed to effect said repair would
probably
cost more than a similar model refrigerator. IOW, a disposable
cheapie design.

It seems that on most low price appliances that the cost to repair is
not
worth it. If the item is more than a few years old, you replace one
part
and a month later another part goes out. By the time you get two or
three
parts , you have the price of a new appliance.
This is especially true if you have to pay someone to do the work.

I threw away a good amount of money on two used refrigerators in my
life.
Now, I don't do that any more.

Steve

That's what I would like to avoid. Good money after bad. We're eating
everything in it so I can spend one last time checking it out, then we'll
just get a new one. I am not convinced any of the new ones will be able
to
run over 30 years like this unit has.

It won't, but do you really care?

Nah, now that you mention it, *I* don't think I'll be running for another 30
years, so why worry? The cost savings are proving to be enormous. This
unit uses the same amount of juice in two weeks that the old box used in
three days! And it's much colder, too. The only issue is that I will
probably have to buy an extra shelf. The unit came with only one and that's
certainly not enough. How much do you think they'll gouge me for an extra
shelf?

I just hope it lasts until we move
out, and with wife's new assignment, that could easily be another 3
years.
I can't see the real estate market stagnating for five years, but you
never
know.

It's already been four years. I have complete faith that Obummer will
keep it
going for at least another three and it'll be at least another two or
three to
recover. Five more? No problem. Remember the late '70s and early '80s,

I am trying hard to forget them. In 1980, I bought my first new car with a
20% APR. OUCH!

brought to you by the fiscal policies of Nixon, Ford, and particularly
Obummer's mentor, Carter. I believe the appropriate terms are "malaise"
and
"stagflation".

Japan had over a decade of it. The problem is that each new crisis is
radically different from the old one. Now, the world's economies are so
intertangled that if Greece takes a hard punch, some small country somewhere
else in the world falls over as a result. It's hard to know which way to
turn. It's clear that there are as many proposed solutions are there are
economists.

--
Bobby G.

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:44:14 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 08:36:20 -0400, "Robert Green"

wrote:


snip - quotation levels are getting messed

Yeah, they are that way. Since I wasn't working there was no way to buy a
house without selling the one we had. I got an apartment in Ohio and went
alone while she sold the place, which she did in three months. Actually,
the
buyers made an offer about the time I left but they wanted the contract
contingent on their house selling. Since we had just put the house on the
market, I didn't like that idea. They sold three months later and bought
ours. I should have accepted the contingency. :-/

One day I will learn not to beat myself up over not having 20-20 hindsight.
It's not today, though. We almost sold and moved just before the crash but
mom got cancer and that took all our spare time and then some. 2008 was a
bad, bad year in so many ways . . .

Not so much beating myself up as an observation. We sold in 2007 and bought
in 2008. I should have waited another year to buy but as I said, I was really
sick of living in an apartment.

I think empty houses always sell for more - just because they look
bigger,
but that's just personal observation. I am sure others have seen the
reverse.

All agents I know (and my wife worked for many) have told us the opposite.
People want to visualize how the layout works. For example, a bedroom is
easier to size up if there is a bed in it. Beds are standard so even if
it's
a queen and you have a king it's easier to visualize the fit than if there
is
nothing. In fact there are companies that just do "staging" for this
purpose.

We've got an unusally small home and lots of stuff. Agents were always
telling us to put as much as we could in storage. I guess the idea is to
have it looked "lived in" but not like a packrat's burrow. (-:

More precisely, they want it to looked lived in so people can see how things
fit. It also helps hide the imperfections of an empty room. If there isn't
furniture to look at perhaps it'll be a crack in the wall that grabs the
attention. ;-)

Now my
wife wants me to get rid of the 20 or so PC's I've built starting with my
first IBM clone in 1985. They're lined up against the basement wall, doing
nothing, so I suppose it's time but it's so hard to dispose of something
you've spent so much time on, even if it's worthless now. I've promised I
would as soon as I've copied all the data off them. Ahem.

I still have my "first day order" IBM PC (from '82). I've pretty much gotten
rid of all of the rest of the junk, after the last two moves. The next won't
be any easier, though. I've added a ton (almost literally) of tools.
Preparing for retirement. ;-)


We're still not 100% on where we're going. It *was* San Diego, but both
the
city AND the state are in serious trouble so we're waiting until she
stops
working to get serious. Last two assignments have been abroad, next one
might be, too. It's strange how much a bad market can change all your
plans
if it hits at exactly the wrong time. I guess there's never a right
time.

I thought '07 was a bad time to sell, until '08 and '09. I found a
regular
job in '08, so we moved to Alabama and bought a house. We probably should
have rented before we bought but a year in an apartment was about all I
could
take. ;-)

That's what we're thinking. Renting before buying. That will give the
market time to recover but sometimes I wonder if it ever will.

You don't want the market to recover *before* buying! I'm sure it will
recover, but not soon.

Housing demand is really "adjustable" in that kids can move back in with
their parents when they get in a jam. I know several folks whose kids are
back in the nest and no one is happy about it, neither the kids nor the
parents.

Understandable. Ours is married, so that certainly wouldn't work out well.

I just read an article that said in NYC they have begun stringent
enforcement of partitioning laws to prevent people from taking apartments
and chunking them up into smaller units by dividing the LR into two more
bedrooms. The cause was the death of some firefighters whom the city claims
died because they became disoriented fighting a fire in an illegally
partitioned apartment.

They have maps of every apartment? Seems lame. Not that I disagree much with
the city.

BTW, we bit the bullet and bought a new GE fridge. It's SO quiet compared
to the old one but more importantly, it uses 1/4 the juice the old one did.
We should have done it much, much sooner. I was astounded when I compared
the Kill-o-Watt readings. Some of the reasons are obvious - the doors and
walls are perhaps three times as thick as the old unit and I am sure that
the motor is much more efficient.

I was worried from reports on the web that it wouldn't cool as quickly as
the old one, but it cooled quickly enough for my taste. $600 (included an
additonal two year warranty) but worth it - AND - we stimulated the economy!
Got it from HomeDespot and I must say, it was pretty painless (except for
the $ part) once a salesman actually showed up in appliances - took 20
minutes! The guys they sent were pros - had to take the side door off
(which we never use and whose hinge pins had rusted). Thank God for WD-40.
A two minute soak and that pin popped right out.

These two very small Hispanic guys managed to navigate some very awkward
turns by carrying it between them with just a big strap underneath. I was
impressed - not a scratch or mark anywhere. Showed up two hours early, too.
Took away the old box too, for free. Delivery and set-up was done by a
company called HBI - they also called three times after the install to make
sure I was happy. Good deal.

We recently bought a Electrolux 'fridge from Lowes. Same deal, though it's a
straight shot for us (this house is on a slab). We'll probably buy the
matching stove around Christmas. We're debating on whether we want to go for
gas (dual fuel) or electric. I'd have to have gas piped around the house -
another $400 if we went that way.

We figured that we could be staying here for a while so why not be happy and
cut the electric bill at the same time? Of course, now that we've made the
purchase, we'll find the perfect real estate deal.

I doubt that a 'fridge or the $600 is going to make much of a difference here.

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:56:34 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 10:42:31 -0400, "Robert Green"

wrote:


"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
m...

"notbob" wrote in message
...
As an example, I was given a fairly new GE refrigerator that was not
running. I'm pretty good at repairing appliances and figured I
could
get this one back online, no problem. PROBLEM! I discovered the
failure was due to a bad temp controller and I went down to my local
appliance parts place, and gave them the model and serial number. I
knew and trusted these guys, from long association, and they told me
this particular model, a low end one, was not worth the effort.
They
said the specialized tool needed to effect said repair would
probably
cost more than a similar model refrigerator. IOW, a disposable
cheapie design.

It seems that on most low price appliances that the cost to repair is
not
worth it. If the item is more than a few years old, you replace one
part
and a month later another part goes out. By the time you get two or
three
parts , you have the price of a new appliance.
This is especially true if you have to pay someone to do the work.

I threw away a good amount of money on two used refrigerators in my
life.
Now, I don't do that any more.

Steve

That's what I would like to avoid. Good money after bad. We're eating
everything in it so I can spend one last time checking it out, then we'll
just get a new one. I am not convinced any of the new ones will be able
to
run over 30 years like this unit has.

It won't, but do you really care?

Nah, now that you mention it, *I* don't think I'll be running for another 30
years, so why worry? The cost savings are proving to be enormous. This
unit uses the same amount of juice in two weeks that the old box used in
three days! And it's much colder, too. The only issue is that I will
probably have to buy an extra shelf. The unit came with only one and that's
certainly not enough. How much do you think they'll gouge me for an extra
shelf?

No idea. Probably something ridiculous. You should be able to find them
online.

I just hope it lasts until we move
out, and with wife's new assignment, that could easily be another 3
years.
I can't see the real estate market stagnating for five years, but you
never
know.

It's already been four years. I have complete faith that Obummer will
keep it
going for at least another three and it'll be at least another two or
three to
recover. Five more? No problem. Remember the late '70s and early '80s,

I am trying hard to forget them. In 1980, I bought my first new car with a
20% APR. OUCH!

We bought our first house in ,82. When we started looking the 30-year fixed
mortgages were going above 18%, though when we finally closed we got what we
thought was a bargain at 14.5%. We now have a 4.25% mortgage.

brought to you by the fiscal policies of Nixon, Ford, and particularly
Obummer's mentor, Carter. I believe the appropriate terms are "malaise"
and
"stagflation".

Japan had over a decade of it. The problem is that each new crisis is
radically different from the old one. Now, the world's economies are so
intertangled that if Greece takes a hard punch, some small country somewhere
else in the world falls over as a result. It's hard to know which way to
turn. It's clear that there are as many proposed solutions are there are
economists.

Every one is different because governments act differently. We'd be well on
the way to a recovery now if the government didn't keep driving stakes into
the economy's heart.

wrote in message
...

We've got an unusally small home and lots of stuff. Agents were always
telling us to put as much as we could in storage. I guess the idea is to
have it looked "lived in" but not like a packrat's burrow. (-:

More precisely, they want it to looked lived in so people can see how
things
fit. It also helps hide the imperfections of an empty room. If there
isn't
furniture to look at perhaps it'll be a crack in the wall that grabs the
attention. ;-)

Ah yes, I can describe the many faults concealed in this house. First was
the giant hole, not just crack, in the wall and floor where the sellers had
torn out a half-partition to make room for the 17CF refrigerator. In the
basement the double ceiling should have been a tipoff (it will be NEXT time)
that something wicked was waiting behind (termite damage and wiring done by
a sixteen year old who didn't appear to have access to even the simplest "My
Home Wiring Basics" book. Wires wrapped with masking tape, grounds run as
neutrals, hot and neutral reverse on outlets, ground wires run off to places
unknown (and ungrounded!) and a host of grounded outlets without grounds or
GFI. When the walls came down in the basement, there was black mold and a
few collapsed cinderblocks and more evidence of old termite infestation.

Now my
wife wants me to get rid of the 20 or so PC's I've built starting with my
first IBM clone in 1985. They're lined up against the basement wall,
doing
nothing, so I suppose it's time but it's so hard to dispose of something
you've spent so much time on, even if it's worthless now. I've promised
I
would as soon as I've copied all the data off them. Ahem.

I still have my "first day order" IBM PC (from '82). I've pretty much
gotten
rid of all of the rest of the junk, after the last two moves. The next
won't
be any easier, though. I've added a ton (almost literally) of tools.
Preparing for retirement. ;-)

I have its brother. $5,000+ from Computerland and an extra $655 for a
second full size single sided(!) floppy disk drive. I remember upgrading it
to a POS CMS 20Mb hard drive a few years later (and a new PS after the
original smoked). That's when I learned the value of making constant
backups both on schedule and whenever there's new software to be installed.

I only wish we would come as far with solar power as we did with PC's from
that era. Oh, and I ordered 64K of RAM instead of the standard 16K soldered
on to the motherboard. I think the improvements in clones that I
appreciated the most was case design. Early clones cases were works of
art - holes could be anywhere, tabs didn't mate, and every one of them would
slit you up good if you made a wrong move.

We're still not 100% on where we're going. It *was* San Diego, but
both
the
city AND the state are in serious trouble so we're waiting until she
stops
working to get serious. Last two assignments have been abroad, next
one
might be, too. It's strange how much a bad market can change all your
plans
if it hits at exactly the wrong time. I guess there's never a right
time.

I thought '07 was a bad time to sell, until '08 and '09. I found a
regular
job in '08, so we moved to Alabama and bought a house. We probably
should
have rented before we bought but a year in an apartment was about all I
could
take. ;-)

That's what we're thinking. Renting before buying. That will give the
market time to recover but sometimes I wonder if it ever will.

You don't want the market to recover *before* buying! I'm sure it will
recover, but not soon.

Oops. We as sellers want the market to recover before we sell; we as
buyers want the market to tank further before we buy. And round and round
it goes. Part of the rut is that a bizarre equilibrium is in effect.
People are all waiting for a "negative crash" - an event so profound it
signals true recovery. The problem is, that only downward crashes produce
those big "marker" events. I think two or three months of strong new homes
sales might be the few drops that turn the half empty glass into more than
half full, but it's like a cake - rises slowly but crashes quick if you slam
the oven door hard enough. Remember, a lot of this recession is fear based,
not reality based, and people eventually lose their fear despite economic
indicators.

Housing demand is really "adjustable" in that kids can move back in with
their parents when they get in a jam. I know several folks whose kids
are
back in the nest and no one is happy about it, neither the kids nor the
parents.

Understandable. Ours is married, so that certainly wouldn't work out
well.

Oh, but . . . It's happening right next door. My neighbor feels she has to
take them in (kid, baby daddy and babies) but I can see it's killing her.
I've had the "tough love" talk with her, but they are her babies and always
will be and I could talk until I am hoarse - she's not going to toss them
out even if they hold parties when she's visiting sick relatives and her
kid's friends trash the joint and steal anything they can get away with.

I just read an article that said in NYC they have begun stringent
enforcement of partitioning laws to prevent people from taking apartments
and chunking them up into smaller units by dividing the LR into two more
bedrooms. The cause was the death of some firefighters whom the city
claims
died because they became disoriented fighting a fire in an illegally
partitioned apartment.

They have maps of every apartment? Seems lame. Not that I disagree much
with
the city.

Their version of Google "inner" earth. I think there's supposed to be a
floor plan on file for every place in the city. They have a pretty good
computer system for keeping tracking of the city's real estate because it's
their tax base. (-: I don't think the FD has a real time system to bring
up floor plans of buildings at fire scenes, but I'll bet they are working on
it. In the fatality case, they had violated some formula inspectors use to
figure out minimum floor space and emergency escape routes. What good is
having a fire escape if it's walled off and accessible only through a locked
door?

BTW, we bit the bullet and bought a new GE fridge. It's SO quiet
compared
to the old one but more importantly, it uses 1/4 the juice the old one
did.
We should have done it much, much sooner. I was astounded when I
compared
the Kill-o-Watt readings. Some of the reasons are obvious - the doors
and
walls are perhaps three times as thick as the old unit and I am sure that
the motor is much more efficient.

I was worried from reports on the web that it wouldn't cool as quickly as
the old one, but it cooled quickly enough for my taste. $600 (included
an
additonal two year warranty) but worth it - AND - we stimulated the
economy!
Got it from HomeDespot and I must say, it was pretty painless (except for
the $ part) once a salesman actually showed up in appliances - took 20
minutes! The guys they sent were pros - had to take the side door off
(which we never use and whose hinge pins had rusted). Thank God for
WD-40.
A two minute soak and that pin popped right out.

These two very small Hispanic guys managed to navigate some very awkward
turns by carrying it between them with just a big strap underneath. I
was
impressed - not a scratch or mark anywhere. Showed up two hours early,
too.
Took away the old box too, for free. Delivery and set-up was done by a
company called HBI - they also called three times after the install to
make
sure I was happy. Good deal.

We recently bought a Electrolux 'fridge from Lowes. Same deal, though
it's a
straight shot for us (this house is on a slab). We'll probably buy the
matching stove around Christmas. We're debating on whether we want to go
for
gas (dual fuel) or electric. I'd have to have gas piped around the
house -
another $400 if we went that way.

Interesting. Wife is 100% a "cooking with gas" gal. I don't care - I've
used both and have a slight preference for gas cooking-wise and electric
safety wise. I've never heard of a house being leveled by an "electricity
explosion" but we have several spectacular gas explosions a year around
here. One recent explosion at a shopping mall was captured on CCTV cameras.
Gas can knock down a whole structure in seconds.

We figured that we could be staying here for a while so why not be happy
and
cut the electric bill at the same time? Of course, now that we've made
the
purchase, we'll find the perfect real estate deal.

I doubt that a 'fridge or the $600 is going to make much of a difference
here.

It's the psychological value, not the real value. I just hate the idea of
not being able to stretch the old one to the bitter end and leaving some
buyer with MY refrigerator, especially after I've "automated" it.

--
Bobby G.