As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm thinking
that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all the
bedrooms while I'm messing around... sounds like the easiest way to do
this would be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the special cables
- 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6 - and I'm wondering what is the best way to wire
this. I'm thinking currently that maybe I would need to run smurf tube
in directly from the basement to the attic, and then drop down the walls
in the bedrooms. I'm thinking that i would need 3 of those cables (3
bedrooms) plus another RG-6 for a future roof antenna installation. (I
already have cable, but would like to also have the ability to watch OTA
TV. Sometimes the picture is actually better, but rabbit ears only work
well on the 2nd floor.) I'm assuming the right way to do this would be
to cut little coupons out of the wall at the floor and ceiling and use a
right angle drill with a hole saw to get through the sill
plates/floor/subfloor?

So... given those cable requirements, what size smurf tube would I need?
Or there is an unused PVC conduit running up along my chimney that was
for a PO's PV installation, could I just repurpose that? I guess what
I'm really looking for is guidance from someone who's used these
products before as to what size will make for easy pulling.

Also, in this kind of installation, do I need to have boxes at the ends
of the smurf tube or PVC, or can I just use bushings and then split the
cables from there? (do they even make bushings for smurf tube?)

Where can I *find* short lengths of large diameter smurf tube? Is that
something that would likely be available at your local electrical supply
house?

Finally, for running the cables in the basement (exposed joists) is
there any kind of small "cable tray" arrangement I could use rather than
stapling to joists or continuing smurf tube to the panel?

thanks,

Nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm thinking
that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all the bedrooms
while I'm messing around... sounds like the easiest way to do this would
be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the special cables - 2x RG-6
and 2x CAT-6 - and I'm wondering what is the best way to wire this. I'm
thinking currently that maybe I would need to run smurf tube in directly
from the basement to the attic, and then drop down the walls in the
bedrooms. I'm thinking that i would need 3 of those cables (3 bedrooms)
plus another RG-6 for a future roof antenna installation. (I already have
cable, but would like to also have the ability to watch OTA TV. Sometimes
the picture is actually better, but rabbit ears only work well on the 2nd
floor.) I'm assuming the right way to do this would be to cut little
coupons out of the wall at the floor and ceiling and use a right angle
drill with a hole saw to get through the sill plates/floor/subfloor?

So... given those cable requirements, what size smurf tube would I need?
Or there is an unused PVC conduit running up along my chimney that was for
a PO's PV installation, could I just repurpose that? I guess what I'm
really looking for is guidance from someone who's used these products
before as to what size will make for easy pulling.

Also, in this kind of installation, do I need to have boxes at the ends of
the smurf tube or PVC, or can I just use bushings and then split the
cables from there? (do they even make bushings for smurf tube?)

Where can I *find* short lengths of large diameter smurf tube? Is that
something that would likely be available at your local electrical supply
house?

Finally, for running the cables in the basement (exposed joists) is there
any kind of small "cable tray" arrangement I could use rather than
stapling to joists or continuing smurf tube to the panel?



*Those prefabricated structured cables can be very expensive and quite big.
The individual spools are cheaper. If your attic is going to remain
accessible and unfinished I would suggest that you create a hub up there
from which to feed each room.

If the existing PVC is large enough then go ahead and use it. I've never
used Smurf tubing and I don't know what the availability is. I seem to
recall seeing it at Home Depot a long time ago, but not lately. You could
just pull the cables up without a conduit. I wouldn't bother with conduit
at all. It just makes more work for the job and the cables are fine without
it.

There are tie wraps made which have a screw hole in them for attaching to
surfaces. You can screw them to walls and ceilings, make a loose loop, pull
your wires through, and then tighten up the tie wraps.

You don't necessarily need boxes for your terminations, but if there is risk
of the junctions becoming damaged, a pull box can be used. You could also
use patch panels, but they can add more to the cost.

Nate Nagel wrote:

As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm thinking
that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all the
bedrooms while I'm messing around... sounds like the easiest way to do
this would be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the special cables
- 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6 -

Compare the price per foot of that composite cable vs. the equivalent
separate cables. Pulling cables isn't difficult.

and I'm wondering what is the best way to wire
this. I'm thinking currently that maybe I would need to run smurf tube
in directly from the basement to the attic, and then drop down the walls
in the bedrooms.

Typically, basement up to the first floor rooms, and attic down to
second floor rooms. Any available chase from basement to attic is useful
for the later. You probably don't want to run smurf tube home runs all
the way, better to run up a single conduit to a pull box in the attic
and distribute from there. Since this is low voltage you do not need to
have everything in conduit.

I'm thinking that i would need 3 of those cables (3
bedrooms) plus another RG-6 for a future roof antenna installation. (I
already have cable, but would like to also have the ability to watch OTA
TV. Sometimes the picture is actually better, but rabbit ears only work
well on the 2nd floor.) I'm assuming the right way to do this would be
to cut little coupons out of the wall at the floor and ceiling and use a
right angle drill with a hole saw to get through the sill
plates/floor/subfloor?

You should be able to drill up from the basement or down from the attic
with an "installer's bit", or a regular spade bit in most cases.


So... given those cable requirements, what size smurf tube would I need?
Or there is an unused PVC conduit running up along my chimney that was
for a PO's PV installation, could I just repurpose that? I guess what
I'm really looking for is guidance from someone who's used these
products before as to what size will make for easy pulling.

You really don't need smurf tube at all unless you want to spend the
money and make adding future cables more difficult.


Also, in this kind of installation, do I need to have boxes at the ends
of the smurf tube or PVC, or can I just use bushings and then split the
cables from there? (do they even make bushings for smurf tube?)

They make all the appropriate bushings for smurf tube, but you do not
need boxes at all for low voltage work. CADDY makes some nice metal low
voltage rings that trim the opening in the drywall, provide the mounting
screw holes for the cover plate and have bend over ears that wrap around
and secure to the drywall with a couple screws. There is no box, so
there are no issues jamming all the wires into a box when you have a
fully loaded six pack plate of phone, network and coax cables.


Where can I *find* short lengths of large diameter smurf tube? Is that
something that would likely be available at your local electrical supply
house?

They might, but you don't need it.


Finally, for running the cables in the basement (exposed joists) is
there any kind of small "cable tray" arrangement I could use rather than
stapling to joists or continuing smurf tube to the panel?

Look online for the "CADDY" brand of hangers and fasteners. My
recommendation would be a plywood backboard in the basement divided into
RF, phone and data areas, CADDY J hook type hangers to carry the lines
from the backboard to the various first floor points and the chase to
the attic, then more CADDY J hooks in the attic to carry across to
various second floor points. Pull the conductors up or down into the
walls at the appropriate points and use the CADDY low voltage rings at
the "box" locations. I like the Leviton modular wall plates and use the
6 port plates everywhere, putting the blank fillers in currently unused
ports.

I have a single story house with no basement here in TX, and I have my
server rack in the back corner of the garage. Behind the rack on the
wall I have a plywood backer board with a RF splitter, a cat5 patch
panel with 110 punchdown back, and a phone 110 patch block. I have a
length of 2" PVC conduit that is clamped at the top of the backer board
and runs up into the attic. In the attic the wires come out of that
conduit and transition onto J hooks on the rafters where they run off to
wherever they need to go and then drop down into the walls, or on the
case of the shop feed, drop down into a 1" PVC conduit that takes them
down the wall, then out and underground 80' to the shop.

On 06/20/2010 12:33 PM, John Grabowski wrote:
As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm
thinking that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all
the bedrooms while I'm messing around... sounds like the easiest way
to do this would be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the
special cables - 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6 - and I'm wondering what is the
best way to wire this. I'm thinking currently that maybe I would need
to run smurf tube in directly from the basement to the attic, and then
drop down the walls in the bedrooms. I'm thinking that i would need 3
of those cables (3 bedrooms) plus another RG-6 for a future roof
antenna installation. (I already have cable, but would like to also
have the ability to watch OTA TV. Sometimes the picture is actually
better, but rabbit ears only work well on the 2nd floor.) I'm assuming
the right way to do this would be to cut little coupons out of the
wall at the floor and ceiling and use a right angle drill with a hole
saw to get through the sill plates/floor/subfloor?

So... given those cable requirements, what size smurf tube would I
need? Or there is an unused PVC conduit running up along my chimney
that was for a PO's PV installation, could I just repurpose that? I
guess what I'm really looking for is guidance from someone who's used
these products before as to what size will make for easy pulling.

Also, in this kind of installation, do I need to have boxes at the
ends of the smurf tube or PVC, or can I just use bushings and then
split the cables from there? (do they even make bushings for smurf tube?)

Where can I *find* short lengths of large diameter smurf tube? Is that
something that would likely be available at your local electrical
supply house?

Finally, for running the cables in the basement (exposed joists) is
there any kind of small "cable tray" arrangement I could use rather
than stapling to joists or continuing smurf tube to the panel?



*Those prefabricated structured cables can be very expensive and quite
big. The individual spools are cheaper. If your attic is going to remain
accessible and unfinished I would suggest that you create a hub up there
from which to feed each room.

If the existing PVC is large enough then go ahead and use it. I've never
used Smurf tubing and I don't know what the availability is. I seem to
recall seeing it at Home Depot a long time ago, but not lately. You
could just pull the cables up without a conduit. I wouldn't bother with
conduit at all. It just makes more work for the job and the cables are
fine without it.

There are tie wraps made which have a screw hole in them for attaching
to surfaces. You can screw them to walls and ceilings, make a loose
loop, pull your wires through, and then tighten up the tie wraps.

You don't necessarily need boxes for your terminations, but if there is
risk of the junctions becoming damaged, a pull box can be used. You
could also use patch panels, but they can add more to the cost.

the real reason that I ask is that I currently don't have a path from
the basement to the attic. I was thinking smurf tube or PVC so that I
would create one that I could then use in the future if I found that I
needed to pull another run of LV something or other. (obviously I will
leave a string in there for future use even after cables are pulled
through.) Thinking smurf tube because I don't believe there is a
straight shot, it would have to curve from one stud bay into another to
get around ductwork if I choose to go the in-wall route (I kinda like
that; that way you don't have phone and/or Internet wiring run outside
the house, where people could theoretically cut it. I know, paranoia,
but it is a bit of a horror-movie cliche, presumably for a reason. If
someone really wants to screw with you in your house, the first thing
they do is to cut your connection to the outside world.) Was also
wondering if I would need a different type of cable if it were to be run
outdoors but inside PVC.

I also need to do the same thing for 120v in two locations on the 2nd
floor, but one of them I think I will feed off the smoke detectors
(which I have not yet installed) so I will have to out of necessity run
that not in a chase because I will be installing at least one SD on the
1st floor and one in the basement. I have not yet figured out how to do
the other one. I am thinking that I might be able to sneak it down a
plumbing chase. I hope.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:
As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm thinking
that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all the
bedrooms while I'm messing around... sounds like the easiest way to do
this would be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the special cables
- 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6 - and I'm wondering what is the best way to wire
this. I'm thinking currently that maybe I would need to run smurf tube
in directly from the basement to the attic, and then drop down the walls
in the bedrooms. I'm thinking that i would need 3 of those cables (3
bedrooms) plus another RG-6 for a future roof antenna installation. (I
already have cable, but would like to also have the ability to watch OTA
TV. Sometimes the picture is actually better, but rabbit ears only work
well on the 2nd floor.) I'm assuming the right way to do this would be
to cut little coupons out of the wall at the floor and ceiling and use a
right angle drill with a hole saw to get through the sill
plates/floor/subfloor?

So... given those cable requirements, what size smurf tube would I need?
Or there is an unused PVC conduit running up along my chimney that was
for a PO's PV installation, could I just repurpose that? I guess what
I'm really looking for is guidance from someone who's used these
products before as to what size will make for easy pulling.

Also, in this kind of installation, do I need to have boxes at the ends
of the smurf tube or PVC, or can I just use bushings and then split the
cables from there? (do they even make bushings for smurf tube?)

Where can I *find* short lengths of large diameter smurf tube? Is that
something that would likely be available at your local electrical supply
house?

Finally, for running the cables in the basement (exposed joists) is
there any kind of small "cable tray" arrangement I could use rather than
stapling to joists or continuing smurf tube to the panel?

thanks,

Nate

Hi,
Why bother. Go wireless.

On 06/20/2010 01:24 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm thinking
that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all the
bedrooms while I'm messing around... sounds like the easiest way to do
this would be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the special cables
- 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6 - and I'm wondering what is the best way to wire
this. I'm thinking currently that maybe I would need to run smurf tube
in directly from the basement to the attic, and then drop down the walls
in the bedrooms. I'm thinking that i would need 3 of those cables (3
bedrooms) plus another RG-6 for a future roof antenna installation. (I
already have cable, but would like to also have the ability to watch OTA
TV. Sometimes the picture is actually better, but rabbit ears only work
well on the 2nd floor.) I'm assuming the right way to do this would be
to cut little coupons out of the wall at the floor and ceiling and use a
right angle drill with a hole saw to get through the sill
plates/floor/subfloor?

So... given those cable requirements, what size smurf tube would I need?
Or there is an unused PVC conduit running up along my chimney that was
for a PO's PV installation, could I just repurpose that? I guess what
I'm really looking for is guidance from someone who's used these
products before as to what size will make for easy pulling.

Also, in this kind of installation, do I need to have boxes at the ends
of the smurf tube or PVC, or can I just use bushings and then split the
cables from there? (do they even make bushings for smurf tube?)

Where can I *find* short lengths of large diameter smurf tube? Is that
something that would likely be available at your local electrical supply
house?

Finally, for running the cables in the basement (exposed joists) is
there any kind of small "cable tray" arrangement I could use rather than
stapling to joists or continuing smurf tube to the panel?

thanks,

Nate

Hi,
Why bother. Go wireless.


wireless cable TV? Wireless antenna? I already have wireless Internet,
but would prefer wired because of the significant speed advantages.

Also, my thought is that for a little work, it would make an older house
more appealing for buyers to have all this work done, were we to sell.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 06/20/2010 05:41 PM, DA wrote:
responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ng-448448-.htm
DA wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:




As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm thinking
that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all the
bedrooms while I'm messing around... sounds like the easiest way to do
this would be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the
special cables
- 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6 - and I'm wondering what is the best way to wire
this. I'm thinking currently that maybe I would need to run smurf tube
in directly from the basement to the attic, and then drop down the
walls
in the bedrooms. I'm thinking that i would need 3 of those cables (3
bedrooms) plus another RG-6 for a future roof antenna installation. (I
already have cable, but would like to also have the ability to watch
OTA
TV. Sometimes the picture is actually better, but rabbit ears only
work
well on the 2nd floor.) I'm assuming the right way to do this would be
to cut little coupons out of the wall at the floor and ceiling and use
a
right angle drill with a hole saw to get through the sill
plates/floor/subfloor?

So... given those cable requirements, what size smurf tube would I
need?
Or there is an unused PVC conduit running up along my chimney that
was
for a PO's PV installation, could I just repurpose that? I guess what
I'm really looking for is guidance from someone who's used these
products before as to what size will make for easy pulling.

I think you are over-engineering it. There are basically two reasons
people use the smurf : to protect a delicate and/or expensive cable such
as fiber optics (except in reality it's strong as hell and needs no extra
protection) and to provide a path for future cables that cannot be pulled
immediately for whatever reason before the walls (ceilings) close.

If you attempted to pull the smurf first, then the cables, you are
guaranteed to mess with structural integrity of your house because the
corrugated conduit of any useable size will require you to drill 2"+ holes
in the studs/joists/beareres/etc which is much larger than your average
wooden stick-construction home can withstand without consequences. Also,
answering your questions about smurf size - there is no size that's easier
to pull. Because of the ribs the stuff is a bi*ch to pull whatever size,
especially in the tight spaces of a residential home.

The existing PVC (provided by it starts and ends close enough to where you
need to go) is absolutely the way to go. Here is a conduit capacity table
you can use to figure out how many cables will fit:

http://www.cabling-design.com/intera...Apr20041.shtml

But the question is, will the insulation/dielectric in the RG6 and CAT6
be OK if run outside, but inside a PVC? There wouldn't be any UV
exposure, but it is on the south side of the house, and it is 90 degrees
outside right now measured in the shade. I honestly don't know the
answer or I wouldn't be asking.

It seems that if the temperature isn't an issue that everyone seems to
be agreeing that that will be the easiest install...

From your table it sounds like I'm looking at a min. 1" conduit for
*only* the CAT6 so it looks like I'm looking at putting in new stuff no
matter what I do. The RG6 that I have without ends is about 5/16" dia
or about 8mm so by that table I would need a 1-1/2" ot 2" pipe just for
those alone. Sheesh! I knew it was going to be big but that is silly.

Does anyone know what the diameters of those "structured cable" bundles
are? The one that I bothered to look up was Belden 7876A and that is
listed as 0.2" which seems like it "can't possibly be right" (how would
regular coax ends work?) but if true would make for a much easier
install than using separate cables. I found it on a retailer's web site
listed as CAT6 but Belden only lists it as CAT 5e, not sure if that
would be OK or not. I am planning on using gigabit ethernet.


For second floor outlets go up in the attic, then drill the top plate and
come down inside the wall - much easier than any in-wall horizontal run.
Stay away from the outside walls. Make sure the cables lay underneath the
attic insulation to ease the temperature extremes.

yes, that was the plan. It's just getting it up into the attic that's
going to be a PITA - house has forced air heat which is taking up most
of the available wall space, and I don't have any handy stacked closets
or anything like that (bedroom closets are over the main entry to the
house... d'oh!)


Also, in a retrofit like yours there is no issue at all to go "bare cable"
- since most of the construction is complete, the chances that you damage
the cable later by drilling, nailing, stapling into it are slim to none.
Also, the runs in a home are just not long enough to worry about
unsupported cables in the vertical span even if you had to go three floors
from basement to attic.

yes... again, my concern was leaving a path so that I could pull add'l
cables in the future if necessary without cutting the walls open again...


Finally, for running the cables in the basement (exposed joists) is
there any kind of small "cable tray" arrangement I could use
rather than stapling to joists or continuing smurf tube to the panel?

J-hooks that someone had mentioned here are nice but even the smallest
might be an overkill, especially if your cables spread out shortly after
leaving the IC. Just use Ty wraps with a screw eyelet, screw one per 3-4'
to the joist and don't actually tie them all the way - leave plenty of
slack for any future cables or, if you like neat cable jobs, do tie them
down fully after you are 100% sure you're done adding cables (and then
next day you realize you forgot one )


Indeed. I can't imagine that *not* happening, in fact

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:

On 06/20/2010 05:41 PM, DA wrote:
responding to

For second floor outlets go up in the attic, then drill the top plate and
come down inside the wall - much easier than any in-wall horizontal run.
Stay away from the outside walls. Make sure the cables lay underneath the
attic insulation to ease the temperature extremes.

yes, that was the plan. It's just getting it up into the attic that's
going to be a PITA - house has forced air heat which is taking up most
of the available wall space, and I don't have any handy stacked closets
or anything like that (bedroom closets are over the main entry to the
house... d'oh!)

You can run EMT (lightweight metal conduit) inside one of those FHA
ducts and terminate it in a pull box outside the duct on either end and
use that as your cable chase. No need for plenum rated cable if it is
inside metal conduit.

On Jun 20, 12:24*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm thinking
that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all the
bedrooms while I'm messing around... sounds like the easiest way to do
this would be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the special cables
- 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6 - and I'm wondering what is the best way to wire
this. I'm thinking currently that maybe I would need to run smurf tube
in directly from the basement to the attic, and then drop down the walls
in the bedrooms. I'm thinking that i would need 3 of those cables (3
bedrooms) plus another RG-6 for a future roof antenna installation. (I
already have cable, but would like to also have the ability to watch OTA
TV. Sometimes the picture is actually better, but rabbit ears only work
well on the 2nd floor.) I'm assuming the right way to do this would be
to cut little coupons out of the wall at the floor and ceiling and use a
right angle drill with a hole saw to get through the sill
plates/floor/subfloor?

So... given those cable requirements, what size smurf tube would I need?
Or there is an unused PVC conduit running up along my chimney that was
for a PO's PV installation, could I just repurpose that? I guess what
I'm really looking for is guidance from someone who's used these
products before as to what size will make for easy pulling.

Also, in this kind of installation, do I need to have boxes at the ends
of the smurf tube or PVC, or can I just use bushings and then split the
cables from there? (do they even make bushings for smurf tube?)

Where can I *find* short lengths of large diameter smurf tube? Is that
something that would likely be available at your local electrical supply
house?

Finally, for running the cables in the basement (exposed joists) is
there any kind of small "cable tray" arrangement I could use rather than
stapling to joists or continuing smurf tube to the panel?

thanks,

Nate

Hi,
Why bother. Go wireless.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Because i can get 1 gigabit speed on my wired network. Having both is
great especially if he has a chance before the drywall goes up.

On Jun 20, 10:42*am, Nate Nagel wrote:
As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm thinking
that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all the
bedrooms while I'm messing around... *sounds like the easiest way to do
this would be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the special cables
- 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6 - and I'm wondering what is the best way to wire
this. *I'm thinking currently that maybe I would need to run smurf tube
in directly from the basement to the attic, and then drop down the walls
in the bedrooms. *I'm thinking that i would need 3 of those cables (3
bedrooms) plus another RG-6 for a future roof antenna installation. *(I
already have cable, but would like to also have the ability to watch OTA
TV. *Sometimes the picture is actually better, but rabbit ears only work
well on the 2nd floor.) *I'm assuming the right way to do this would be
to cut little coupons out of the wall at the floor and ceiling and use a
right angle drill with a hole saw to get through the sill
plates/floor/subfloor?

So... given those cable requirements, what size smurf tube would I need?
* Or there is an unused PVC conduit running up along my chimney that was
for a PO's PV installation, could I just repurpose that? *I guess what
I'm really looking for is guidance from someone who's used these
products before as to what size will make for easy pulling.

Also, in this kind of installation, do I need to have boxes at the ends
of the smurf tube or PVC, or can I just use bushings and then split the
cables from there? *(do they even make bushings for smurf tube?)

Where can I *find* short lengths of large diameter smurf tube? *Is that
something that would likely be available at your local electrical supply
house?

Finally, for running the cables in the basement (exposed joists) is
there any kind of small "cable tray" arrangement I could use rather than
stapling to joists or continuing smurf tube to the panel?

thanks,

Nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

I'd home run more cat6 lines in every room too. About 10 years ago
the recommendation was for two cat5e lines per room one for voice and
one for data. Additionaly it is now possible (with baluns and
adapters) to send HDMI and all kinds of other signals over cat6,
consider 4 cat6 runs per room 3 to a lower floor mud plate and 1 to
the mudplate at the room entry for advanced control panels.
Additionally for any security cameras home run cat6 for those too they
can be plugged directly to the lan and not being RF you dont have to
worry about neibors seeing your camera signals.

On 06/20/2010 07:42 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

On 06/20/2010 05:41 PM, DA wrote:
responding to

For second floor outlets go up in the attic, then drill the top plate and
come down inside the wall - much easier than any in-wall horizontal run.
Stay away from the outside walls. Make sure the cables lay underneath the
attic insulation to ease the temperature extremes.

yes, that was the plan. It's just getting it up into the attic that's
going to be a PITA - house has forced air heat which is taking up most
of the available wall space, and I don't have any handy stacked closets
or anything like that (bedroom closets are over the main entry to the
house... d'oh!)

You can run EMT (lightweight metal conduit) inside one of those FHA
ducts and terminate it in a pull box outside the duct on either end and
use that as your cable chase. No need for plenum rated cable if it is
inside metal conduit.

Hey... now there's an idea. I won't get hammered for doing doglick
work if I do that though will I? I'm assuming that a return duct would
be the preferred way to handle this...

nate

(I did run phone wires up a laundry chute once, after a landlord lied to
us about there being phone jacks in the bedrooms despite my specifically
asking...)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 06/20/2010 07:42 PM, RickH wrote:
On Jun 20, 12:24 pm, Tony wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm thinking
that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all the
bedrooms while I'm messing around... sounds like the easiest way to do
this would be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the special cables
- 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6 - and I'm wondering what is the best way to wire
this. I'm thinking currently that maybe I would need to run smurf tube
in directly from the basement to the attic, and then drop down the walls
in the bedrooms. I'm thinking that i would need 3 of those cables (3
bedrooms) plus another RG-6 for a future roof antenna installation. (I
already have cable, but would like to also have the ability to watch OTA
TV. Sometimes the picture is actually better, but rabbit ears only work
well on the 2nd floor.) I'm assuming the right way to do this would be
to cut little coupons out of the wall at the floor and ceiling and use a
right angle drill with a hole saw to get through the sill
plates/floor/subfloor?

So... given those cable requirements, what size smurf tube would I need?
Or there is an unused PVC conduit running up along my chimney that was
for a PO's PV installation, could I just repurpose that? I guess what
I'm really looking for is guidance from someone who's used these
products before as to what size will make for easy pulling.

Also, in this kind of installation, do I need to have boxes at the ends
of the smurf tube or PVC, or can I just use bushings and then split the
cables from there? (do they even make bushings for smurf tube?)

Where can I *find* short lengths of large diameter smurf tube? Is that
something that would likely be available at your local electrical supply
house?

Finally, for running the cables in the basement (exposed joists) is
there any kind of small "cable tray" arrangement I could use rather than
stapling to joists or continuing smurf tube to the panel?

thanks,

Nate

Hi,
Why bother. Go wireless.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Because i can get 1 gigabit speed on my wired network. Having both is
great especially if he has a chance before the drywall goes up.


No drywall here. Plaster. Old.

nate

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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:

On 06/20/2010 07:42 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

On 06/20/2010 05:41 PM, DA wrote:
responding to

For second floor outlets go up in the attic, then drill the top plate and
come down inside the wall - much easier than any in-wall horizontal run.
Stay away from the outside walls. Make sure the cables lay underneath the
attic insulation to ease the temperature extremes.

yes, that was the plan. It's just getting it up into the attic that's
going to be a PITA - house has forced air heat which is taking up most
of the available wall space, and I don't have any handy stacked closets
or anything like that (bedroom closets are over the main entry to the
house... d'oh!)

You can run EMT (lightweight metal conduit) inside one of those FHA
ducts and terminate it in a pull box outside the duct on either end and
use that as your cable chase. No need for plenum rated cable if it is
inside metal conduit.

Hey... now there's an idea. I won't get hammered for doing doglick
work if I do that though will I? I'm assuming that a return duct would
be the preferred way to handle this...

Yes, a return would be preferred.

Another option is usually the plumbing chase along side the waste stack
where there is often room.

On 06/20/2010 09:01 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

On 06/20/2010 07:42 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

On 06/20/2010 05:41 PM, DA wrote:
responding to

For second floor outlets go up in the attic, then drill the top plate and
come down inside the wall - much easier than any in-wall horizontal run.
Stay away from the outside walls. Make sure the cables lay underneath the
attic insulation to ease the temperature extremes.

yes, that was the plan. It's just getting it up into the attic that's
going to be a PITA - house has forced air heat which is taking up most
of the available wall space, and I don't have any handy stacked closets
or anything like that (bedroom closets are over the main entry to the
house... d'oh!)

You can run EMT (lightweight metal conduit) inside one of those FHA
ducts and terminate it in a pull box outside the duct on either end and
use that as your cable chase. No need for plenum rated cable if it is
inside metal conduit.

Hey... now there's an idea. I won't get hammered for doing doglick
work if I do that though will I? I'm assuming that a return duct would
be the preferred way to handle this...

Yes, a return would be preferred.

Another option is usually the plumbing chase along side the waste stack
where there is often room.

I only have two stacks in this house, and one is not in a chase (I can
actually see the pipe sticking through the plaster in the wall of one of
the closets.) I'm going to find out as soon as I have a cool Saturday
whether or not I can drop a line through there, but I'm worried about
there being blocking etc that I wouldn't be able to get through for e.g.
a 2" piece of PVC (immediately, I'm just trying to get a run of Romex
through there for a 120v feed for the bathroom)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Jun 20, 9:09*pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 06/20/2010 09:01 PM, Pete C. wrote:







Nate Nagel wrote:

On 06/20/2010 07:42 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

On 06/20/2010 05:41 PM, DA wrote:
responding to

For second floor outlets go up in the attic, then drill the top plate and
come down inside the wall - much easier than any in-wall horizontal run.
Stay away from the outside walls. Make sure the cables lay underneath the
attic insulation to ease the temperature extremes.

yes, that was the plan. *It's just getting it up into the attic that's
going to be a PITA - house has forced air heat which is taking up most
of the available wall space, and I don't have any handy stacked closets
or anything like that (bedroom closets are over the main entry to the
house... d'oh!)

You can run EMT (lightweight metal conduit) inside one of those FHA
ducts and terminate it in a pull box outside the duct on either end and
use that as your cable chase. No need for plenum rated cable if it is
inside metal conduit.

Hey... *now there's an idea. *I won't get hammered for doing doglick
work if I do that though will I? *I'm assuming that a return duct would
be the preferred way to handle this...

Yes, a return would be preferred.

Another option is usually the plumbing chase along side the waste stack
where there is often room.

I only have two stacks in this house, and one is not in a chase (I can
actually see the pipe sticking through the plaster in the wall of one of
the closets.) *I'm going to find out as soon as I have a cool Saturday
whether or not I can drop a line through there, but I'm worried about
there being blocking etc that I wouldn't be able to get through for e.g.
a 2" piece of PVC (immediately, I'm just trying to get a run of Romex
through there for a 120v feed for the bathroom)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have an interior wall that passes thorugh a closet on our 2nd floor
and a storage sapce on the first. I cut away a 2'x2' opening in the
wall board at the floor of each and made a removable access panel.
Now when I need to runa wire from attic to crawl I can remove the
panels and drill new holes. Then just drop the wire down from the
attic.

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:20:21 -0700 (PDT), RickH
wrote:

Thats right, I'm getting measured 1GB over cat5e and cat5 installed in
1998. In a commercial setting to get gigabit certification it would
have to be cat6 wire and jacks, but in a home cat5e properly
terminated should get to 1GB too, if it doesnt then your switch/router
should downgrade it to 100MB automatically.

Running cat5/6 wire is really the most useful wire down the road
everything these days seems to be pluggable into your LAN, including
stereo receivers, TV's, DVR's, DVD players, cameras, lighting control,
iPads, etc. Having a nice fast LAN will make getting entertainment
streaming and advanced communication to any room a breeze.

Shorter runs in a house makes for higher performance. Commercial
installs can run 300 ft.

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm thinking
that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all the
bedrooms while I'm messing around... sounds like the easiest way to do
this would be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the special cables
- 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6 - and I'm wondering what is the best way to wire
this.

stuff snipped

I would NOT use a structured wire product for a number of reasons. First,
it's usually more expensive than the sum of the single cables. Second, it's
usually much harder to handle than individual cables. It's very thick and
stiff and hard to bend in tight places. Third, if you accidentally put a
nail in the cable, you have to either remove the whole structured cable or
run an additional wire through an already crowded hole.

I also wonder how long RG-6 is going to be useful. Almost everything RG-6
can do is now "doable" with CAT-6 and baluns. CAT-6's turned out to be a
far more universal cable, suitable for repurposing in the future when you
might have different needs. Plus, when you get to where you are going with
a cable run, you might find that you need to run the CAT-6 to one side of
the room and the RG-6 to another. Discrete cables make that a LOT easier to
do with far less waste.

Just my two cents. You may have good reasons to go structured. I'd invest
the money you save going single cable in good tools for terminating the two
types of cable because that's where 90% of cable problems occur.
Compression fittings for the RG-6 (I use quad shield cable, but won't get
into that can of worms as to if it's any better than plain RG-6 other than
being more resistant to jacket damage) and EZ connectors and a crimper for
the CAT-6.

--
Bobby G.

On Jun 22, 12:50*am, "Robert Green"
wrote:
"Nate Nagel" wrote in message

...

As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm thinking
that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all the
bedrooms while I'm messing around... *sounds like the easiest way to do
this would be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the special cables
- 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6 - and I'm wondering what is the best way to wire
this.

stuff snipped

I would NOT use a structured wire product for a number of reasons. *First,
it's usually more expensive than the sum of the single cables. *Second, it's
usually much harder to handle than individual cables. It's very thick and
stiff and hard to bend in tight places. *Third, if you accidentally put a
nail in the cable, you have to either remove the whole structured cable or
run an additional wire through an already crowded hole.

I also wonder how long RG-6 is going to be useful. *Almost everything RG-6
can do is now "doable" with CAT-6 and baluns. *CAT-6's turned out to be a
far more universal cable, suitable for repurposing in the future when you
might have different needs. *Plus, when you get to where you are going with
a cable run, you might find that you need to run the CAT-6 to one side of
the room and the RG-6 to another. *Discrete cables make that a LOT easier to
do with far less waste.

Just my two cents. *You may have good reasons to go structured. *I'd invest
the money you save going single cable in good tools for terminating the two
types of cable because that's where 90% of cable problems occur.
Compression fittings for the RG-6 (I use quad shield cable, but won't get
into that can of worms as to if it's any better than plain RG-6 other than
being more resistant to jacket damage) and EZ connectors and a crimper for
the CAT-6.

--
Bobby G.

if its a new install with open walls run the cable of your choice in
conduit for easy upgrading later. just pull new cable as needed

On Jun 22, 7:41*am, " wrote:
On Jun 22, 12:50*am, "Robert Green"
wrote:





"Nate Nagel" wrote in message

...

As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm thinking
that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all the
bedrooms while I'm messing around... *sounds like the easiest way to do
this would be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the special cables
- 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6 - and I'm wondering what is the best way to wire
this.

stuff snipped

I would NOT use a structured wire product for a number of reasons. *First,
it's usually more expensive than the sum of the single cables. *Second, it's
usually much harder to handle than individual cables. It's very thick and
stiff and hard to bend in tight places. *Third, if you accidentally put a
nail in the cable, you have to either remove the whole structured cable or
run an additional wire through an already crowded hole.

I also wonder how long RG-6 is going to be useful. *Almost everything RG-6
can do is now "doable" with CAT-6 and baluns. *CAT-6's turned out to be a
far more universal cable, suitable for repurposing in the future when you
might have different needs. *Plus, when you get to where you are going with
a cable run, you might find that you need to run the CAT-6 to one side of
the room and the RG-6 to another. *Discrete cables make that a LOT easier to
do with far less waste.

Just my two cents. *You may have good reasons to go structured. *I'd invest
the money you save going single cable in good tools for terminating the two
types of cable because that's where 90% of cable problems occur.
Compression fittings for the RG-6 (I use quad shield cable, but won't get
into that can of worms as to if it's any better than plain RG-6 other than
being more resistant to jacket damage) and EZ connectors and a crimper for
the CAT-6.

--
Bobby G.

if its a new install with open walls run the cable of your choice in
conduit for easy upgrading later. just pull new cable as needed

This is most definitely NOT new install. House is same approximate
age as my parents :/

nate

As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm thinking
that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all the
bedrooms while I'm messing around... sounds like the easiest way to do
this would be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the special
cables - 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6 - and I'm wondering what is the best
way to wire this.

I recommend installing conduit and double-gang boxes instead of running all
those cables now. It's hard to forsee what technologies will be needed in
the future, and conduit makes it easy to run new cables when needed. Why
go to the trouble and expense of installing RG-6 cables now when you may
never need them? What if technology switches to fiber optic cables?

I installed a few double-gang boxes in each room with short conduit runs to
our crawlspace. I put caps on the bottom ends of each conduit to keep out
bugs and drafts for conduit I'm not using. We've only lived here about 6
years, and I've already changed my cable runs a few times.

My only regrets so far is not installing more conduit and boxes in the
bedroom where I didn't forsee needing many connections, and not installing
enough boxes in my home office where most of the cables originate.

Anthony

On Jun 23, 10:14*am, HerHusband wrote:
As I'm getting closer to completing rewiring my 2nd floor, I'm thinking
that I would like to put cable, internet, phone, etc. in all the
bedrooms while I'm messing around... *sounds like the easiest way to do
this would be to use a "structured wiring" panel with the special
cables - 2x RG-6 and 2x CAT-6 - and I'm wondering what is the best
way to wire this.

I recommend installing conduit and double-gang boxes instead of running all
those cables now. *It's hard to forsee what technologies will be needed in
the future, and conduit makes it easy to run new cables when needed. *Why
go to the trouble and expense of installing RG-6 cables now when you may
never need them? What if technology switches to fiber optic cables?

I installed a few double-gang boxes in each room with short conduit runs to
our crawlspace. *I put caps on the bottom ends of each conduit to keep out
bugs and drafts for conduit I'm not using. *We've only lived here about 6
years, and I've already changed my cable runs a few times.

My only regrets so far is not installing more conduit and boxes in the
bedroom where I didn't forsee needing many connections, and not installing
enough boxes in my home office where most of the cables originate.

Anthony

For structured wire forget the boxes, just use mud plates, terminate
at the box by just clamping the bundle to a near stud so it doesnt
fall back into the wall, boxes just confine things needlessly, its not
high-voltage. Pulling cat and RG6 through conduit is a major pain in
the ass as it sticks easily and wont make turns at all, you'll find
out. Best way is to find passages through walls then install access
holes (covered later by heating vent covers) and use the whole wall
pocket or joist pocket to get the wire where it needs to go. Make the
holes in top/bottom plates nice and big, then caulk them again for
fire block. The only conduit I would consider would be corrugated
tubing (that orange stuff) at least 2 inches diameter as this wont
cause sticking and the larger diameter lets you get around corners
easier (but still difficult). Heating ducts are good in a pinch,
sometimes if you have a multi-story staircase you can find that wall
will allow a chase from basement to second story where you only need
to chop a hole in the floor and top plates.

Rick,

For structured wire forget the boxes, just use mud plates, terminate
at the box by just clamping the bundle to a near stud so it doesnt
fall back into the wall, boxes just confine things needlessly, its not
high-voltage.

Full boxes do offer a couple of advantages.

1. If I decide at some point I need an extra electrical outlet, I can
easily run electrical wires and install outlets (assuming there's no low
voltage cables in the box).

2. On exterior walls, a full box can be sealed for air drafts and
insulated around. On any wall with insulation, it's nice to have a clean
box to work in rather than hunting for wires in the insulation.

I prefer double-gang boxes for low voltage lines as they give a little
extra room for the cable to bend, as well as giving more space on the
faceplates (I like keystone jacks that let me customize to phone, cable,
ethernet, speaker wires, or whatever). The double-gang box also allows a
second conduit connection. I bring cables up the left conduit with easy
bend to the faceplate on the right, and up the right conduit for an easy
bend to the faceplace on the left.

I do have a single-gang box in our bedroom, and it's a lot more difficult
to organize all the wires in that small box.

Pulling cat and RG6 through conduit is a major pain in the ass
as it sticks easily and wont make turns at all, you'll find out.

In my case, my conduit runs are short 16" stubs to our crawlspace. I
have no problems feeding RG6, Cat5, and phone cables through those
straight 3/4" conduits. But, if I were installing a fully enclosed
system with bends and whatnot, I would definitely use larger conduit, and
probably try to stick with straight runs between junction (pull) boxes.

Best way is to find passages through walls then install access
holes (covered later by heating vent covers) and use the whole wall
pocket or joist pocket to get the wire where it needs to go.

Obviously, a retrofit situation is a lot different than new construction
(or remodeling when the walls are open). The advantage of installing
conduit is NOT having to open the walls later. If you're going to cut
holes anyway, there's no reason to run the conduit.

Anthony