On Jun 15, 4:41*pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message

...
On Jun 15, 4:29 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:



"Ron" wrote in message

....
On Jun 15, 4:16 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Ron" wrote in message

....
On Jun 15, 10:59 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Tell your friend to stop being a moron for a day and get the belt &
water
pump replaced.

Yeah, and why he's at it, he should also get the AC compressor and the
alternator replaced. (rolling eyes).

============

On what planet would the AC compressor make your **necessarily** car
stop
running? The word "necessarily" eliminates mentioning the one
exceptional
condition under which it might happen, because that situation is
avoidable
by operating a switch.

You obviously missed the point. No comment on the alternator? What
about the power steering pump...should he get that replaced also?
==================

I just checked my manual and found no manufacturer-recommended replacement
intervals for the items you mentioned. Therefore, they are not in the same
category as an item which DOES come with such recommendations.

I can't even remember that last time I had a water pump
fail....probably sometime in the early 80's on a Celia that had about
150K on it.

Spending money just to be spending is stupid, And most of the shops
use aftermarket parts which end up failing before the factory part
would have anyway.

Oh, and I just checked the owners manuals for my Honda, Toyota, and
Mazda...and there is ZIPPO about replacing the water pump. I suggest
you buy a better car.

==========

I own a Toyota Tacoma. What would you suggest I buy instead?

Well if it REALLY says to replace the water pump, I would ignore it.
But hey, that's just me.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:15:51 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314
wrote:

On Jun 15, 2:34Â*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:





On 06/15/10 11:00 am, SteveB wrote:

The manual - and therefore the dealer - says the timing belt on his
vehicle should be replaced at 90K, which is right where he's at.

On my vehicles, I operate in a "run until failure mode" for MOST things.
That does not include tires, brakes, and safety items. Â*If the vehicle is
driven locally, and it throws a timing belt, a short tow would be in order.
If it is used for trips, it would be a longer tow, and failure on the
Interstate or in another state would be a more serious scenario.

With belts now being common, there is less damage when the timing belt is
thrown, versus a timing chain, so you don't really risk massive damage from
failure.

If it was my car, I'd drive it until failure.

We had a '96 Dodge Stratus ES (Mitsu****ty 6-cyl interference engine).
At 55K or so, the water pump went, so I said, "Replace the timing belt
while you're about it, even though it's supposed to be good until 100K.
No point in paying for all that labor twice over." At about 85K "Bang!":
broken timing belt; not worth the cost of repair. I don't know whether
the independent repair shop -- in another State -- did not in fact
replace the timing belt as instructed and for which I paid or whether
they didn't check and replace the idler/tensioner pulley, whose bearings
might have been ruined by the leaking coolant. The local Rescue Mission
to which I donated it told me they couldn't find a replacement engine
for it that was any good, so they just sold it to a wrecking yard. They
also said that the company through which they offer warranties on the
cars they recondition and resell won't do warranties on cars with those
engines.

Our current Chrysler 300M is a few hundred miles shy of the 100K at
which timing belt replacement is recommended, and you bet I'll be
getting the job done within a very short while -- and I'll insist on
getting the tensioner and water pump replaced at the same time. All the
dealers around have quoted me about $1200 for that lot; I haven't yet
got a quote from an independent.

I'm just sitting here reading this thread and smiling to myself as I think of
the Dodge truck and two Saturn SL2s we have now, and our three previous cars
and trucks, with a combined total of over a million miles ... and timing
CHAINS in all six...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Who decided to replace timing chains with timing belts? I grew up with
cars that had timing chains and they lasted forever.

Paul
SOME lasted forever. The 2.6 Mitso****ty would have been farther ahead
with rubber bands, much less regular timing belts.
I've replaced a LOT of Chevy and Mopar timing chains over the decades
as well - and many of them before 100,000 miles.

On Jun 15, 5:08*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:15:51 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314
wrote:



On Jun 15, 2:34*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

On 06/15/10 11:00 am, SteveB wrote:

The manual - and therefore the dealer - says the timing belt on his
vehicle should be replaced at 90K, which is right where he's at.

On my vehicles, I operate in a "run until failure mode" for MOST things.
That does not include tires, brakes, and safety items. *If the vehicle is
driven locally, and it throws a timing belt, a short tow would be in order.
If it is used for trips, it would be a longer tow, and failure on the
Interstate or in another state would be a more serious scenario.

With belts now being common, there is less damage when the timing belt is
thrown, versus a timing chain, so you don't really risk massive damage from
failure.

If it was my car, I'd drive it until failure.

We had a '96 Dodge Stratus ES (Mitsu****ty 6-cyl interference engine)..
At 55K or so, the water pump went, so I said, "Replace the timing belt
while you're about it, even though it's supposed to be good until 100K.
No point in paying for all that labor twice over." At about 85K "Bang!":
broken timing belt; not worth the cost of repair. I don't know whether
the independent repair shop -- in another State -- did not in fact
replace the timing belt as instructed and for which I paid or whether
they didn't check and replace the idler/tensioner pulley, whose bearings
might have been ruined by the leaking coolant. The local Rescue Mission
to which I donated it told me they couldn't find a replacement engine
for it that was any good, so they just sold it to a wrecking yard. They
also said that the company through which they offer warranties on the
cars they recondition and resell won't do warranties on cars with those
engines.

Our current Chrysler 300M is a few hundred miles shy of the 100K at
which timing belt replacement is recommended, and you bet I'll be
getting the job done within a very short while -- and I'll insist on
getting the tensioner and water pump replaced at the same time. All the
dealers around have quoted me about $1200 for that lot; I haven't yet
got a quote from an independent.

I'm just sitting here reading this thread and smiling to myself as I think of
the Dodge truck and two Saturn SL2s we have now, and our three previous cars
and trucks, with a combined total of over a million miles ... and timing
CHAINS in all six...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Who decided to replace timing chains with timing belts? I grew up with
cars that had timing chains and they lasted forever.

Paul

SOME lasted forever. The 2.6 Mitso****ty would have been farther ahead
with rubber bands, much less regular timing belts.
I've replaced a LOT of Chevy and Mopar timing chains over the decades
as well - and many of them before 100,000 miles.

Timing chains on a Chevy small block would get slack in them and wear
a whole through the timing chain cover.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:30:53 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article
, ****ty
Two wrote:
In article ,
(Doug Miller) wrote:


I'm just sitting here reading this thread and smiling to myself as I think of

the Dodge truck and two Saturn SL2s we have now, and our three previous cars
and trucks, with a combined total of over a million miles ... and timing
CHAINS in all six...

Combined total? What, are you selling some weight loss program now?
(these 600 people lost a total of a thousand pounds !!!!!!!!!)

Let's see: 1,000,000 miles divided by six cars is 167,000 miles. I'd say
if you're not getting 300k out of a car, you must be buying ****ty cars.

Of course, being better informed than you, *I* would say the reason I'm not
getting 300K out of a car is generally because I try to drive decent cars,
which means not keeping them that long. And specifically because we had one
stolen at 198K, and another totalled at about 162.

You also obviously failed to understand the significance of the fact that
three of those vehicles, we currently own. Hint: that means they're continuing
to accumulate mileage.

If you *are* getting 300K out of a car, then regardless of what you're
*buying*, you're *keeping* ****ty cars.

I prefer to get rid of them before they get that way. But hey, if you like to
drive ****ty cars just so you can brag about getting 300K out of them, be my
guest. You must really enjoy that 1973 Plymouth, huh?
If you put the miles on fast enough and take care of your car, it
doesn't have to be a ****ty car at 300,000.
A friend commuted to Toronto every day for 5 years.
His commute alone was 150+ miles per day round trip. That's 200,000
miles just to and from work. A trip to BC and back to visit family is
another 4500 miles - twice in 5 years and you may as well say 10,000
miles. Add your normal family driving to that and it's not hard to put
300,000 miles on a car in 5 years - and still have it look and run as
if it only had 50,000 on it.

In article ,
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
...snipped...
It was my friend who told the mechanic that the timing belt was on the
dealer's 90K replacement list and he asked for quote to replace it.

It was the mechanic who replied that 90K was too early. The tranny
fluid change made sense, replacing the spark plugs was probably a good
idea, valve adjustments if there was any chatter, but changing the
timing belt was not needed.

It other words it was the mechanic(s) who made the "pointless attempt
to predict the future".
...snipped...

Speaking from over 30 years experience in vehicle and mobile equipment
maintenance, the likely translation of this is "I don't own the special
tools that would enable me to do the job quickly enough to make any
money at a price competitive with a shop that DOES own the tools.





--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

"Ron" wrote in message
...
I can't even remember that last time I had a water pump
fail....probably sometime in the early 80's on a Celia that had about
150K on it.

Spending money just to be spending is stupid, And most of the shops
use aftermarket parts which end up failing before the factory part
would have anyway.

Oh, and I just checked the owners manuals for my Honda, Toyota, and
Mazda...and there is ZIPPO about replacing the water pump. I suggest
you buy a better car.

The water pump replacement depends on the car. Some Toyotas have the water
pump under the timing belt and you have to remove all the stuff anyway.
Might as well spend an extra $ 100 while inside the motor. If you only got
150 K miles out of the water pump that means your pump may fail 30 K miles
or so before you go back into the moter for the timing belt.
Timing belts fail and leave you stranded. The alternator can go out and
usually you can still drive for a short distance. If the AC compressor
fails, you just get hot and it can be repaired at any time.
Some cars break the timing belt and the valves hit the pistons and you are
in for major expenses.

Why change oil? Just add some if needed..

I had a Toyota with enough miles on it to replace the belt the second time.
I did not change it as the trade in value was only about what the belt
change would have been. I had decided if it failed to just let the car go
to the junk yard. It did last long enough that I bought a new truck. I
sold the car to a co-worker. I did tell him the belt ws about 20 K miles
overdue and if he did not change it right away not to ask for a refund.
My mechanic wanted to change the water pump and he showed me why. I let
him. He only uses parts made by the makers of the cars he works on for
major parts.

DerbyDad03 wrote in news:6739e713-05c4-463b-a348-
:



Thoughts?



Just one. And it's a question. Well, two questions.
1) WHAT KIND OF CAR IS THIS?
2) WHAT ENGINE HAS IT GOT

Not all cars are the same. Not all engines are the same. Not all years of
the same car and/or engine are the same.

Leave out that info and all you'll get are possibly bogus guesses; shots in
the dark.

--
Tegger

My 1990 Dodge caraven with 3.0 engine served me well for about 450,000
miles. It was sad when I finally replaced it.

The only bad problem was transmissions went thru 7 or 8 rebulds:
( Fortunately I had made a good buy and had a AAMCO lifetime rebuild.

considering how much I drive fpor my small business it did a excellent
job, I replaced it with another caravan.

On Jun 15, 7:38*pm, Tegger wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in news:6739e713-05c4-463b-a348-
:



Thoughts?

Just one. And it's a question. Well, two questions.
1) WHAT KIND OF CAR IS THIS?
2) WHAT ENGINE HAS IT GOT

Not all cars are the same. Not all engines are the same. Not all years of
the same car and/or engine are the same.

Leave out that info and all you'll get are possibly bogus guesses; shots in
the dark.

--
Tegger

Are you "Honda Tegger"?

Ron wrote in
:



Are you "Honda Tegger"?



Si, Senor.


--
Tegger

On Jun 15, 6:27*pm, (Larry W) wrote:
In article ,JoeSpareBedro om wrote:

...snipped...It was my friend who told the mechanic that the timing belt was on the
dealer's 90K replacement list and he asked for quote to replace it.

It was the mechanic who replied that 90K was too early. The tranny
fluid change made sense, replacing the spark plugs was probably a good
idea, valve adjustments if there was any chatter, but changing the
timing belt was not needed.

It other words it was the mechanic(s) who made the "pointless attempt
to predict the future".

...snipped...

Speaking from over 30 years experience in vehicle and mobile equipment
maintenance, the likely translation of this is "I don't own the special
tools that would enable me to do the job quickly enough to make any
money at a price competitive with a shop that DOES own the tools.

--
* * There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
* * plausible, and wrong." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *(H L Mencken)

* * *Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

That may be the case, but my friend got the same answer from more than
one shop, including the one that I trust...the one that I am sure can
handle that job with ease.

On Jun 15, 7:38*pm, Tegger wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in news:6739e713-05c4-463b-a348-
:



Thoughts?

Just one. And it's a question. Well, two questions.
1) WHAT KIND OF CAR IS THIS?
2) WHAT ENGINE HAS IT GOT

Not all cars are the same. Not all engines are the same. Not all years of
the same car and/or engine are the same.

Leave out that info and all you'll get are possibly bogus guesses; shots in
the dark.

--
Tegger

2004 Honda Odyssey
3.5L SOHC, 24-Valve, VTEC V6 engine

The engine info is an educated guess since AFAIK that's the only
engine the vehicle came with.

Ron wrote:
On Jun 15, 4:16 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message

...
On Jun 15, 10:59 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Tell your friend to stop being a moron for a day and get the belt & water
pump replaced.
Yeah, and why he's at it, he should also get the AC compressor and the
alternator replaced. (rolling eyes).

============

On what planet would the AC compressor make your **necessarily** car stop
running? The word "necessarily" eliminates mentioning the one exceptional
condition under which it might happen, because that situation is avoidable
by operating a switch.

You obviously missed the point. No comment on the alternator? What
about the power steering pump...should he get that replaced also?


The whole concept of external vs. internal components hard for you to
grasp? You replace water pump with the rubber band timing belt because
the thing is apart anyway, and all you are paying for is the part. The
stuff hung off the engine is much less labor to change, other than the
evac/refill and pressure test on the A/C.

--
aem sends...

On Jun 15, 11:05*pm, aemeijers wrote:
Ron wrote:
On Jun 15, 4:16 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message

....
On Jun 15, 10:59 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Tell your friend to stop being a moron for a day and get the belt & water
pump replaced.
Yeah, and why he's at it, he should also get the AC compressor and the
alternator replaced. (rolling eyes).

============

On what planet would the AC compressor make your **necessarily** car stop
running? *The word "necessarily" eliminates mentioning the one exceptional
condition under which it might happen, because that situation is avoidable
by operating a switch.

You obviously missed the point. No comment on the alternator? What
about the power steering pump...should he get that replaced also?

The whole concept of external vs. internal components hard for you to
grasp? You replace water pump with the rubber band timing belt because
the thing is apart anyway, and all you are paying for is the part. The
stuff hung off the engine is much less labor to change, other than the
evac/refill and pressure test on the A/C.


Please point out to me where the OP said the car in question has a
internal water pump driven by the timing belt, smartass.

Not ALL cars (including the 3 that I own) have an internal water pump,
Mr Know It All.

On Jun 15, 10:39*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jun 15, 7:38*pm, Tegger wrote:



DerbyDad03 wrote in news:6739e713-05c4-463b-a348-
:

Thoughts?

Just one. And it's a question. Well, two questions.
1) WHAT KIND OF CAR IS THIS?
2) WHAT ENGINE HAS IT GOT

Not all cars are the same. Not all engines are the same. Not all years of
the same car and/or engine are the same.

Leave out that info and all you'll get are possibly bogus guesses; shots in
the dark.

--
Tegger

2004 Honda Odyssey
3.5L SOHC, 24-Valve, VTEC V6 engine

The engine info is an educated guess since AFAIK that's the only
engine the vehicle came with.

Well, Tegger is the person to answer your question.

On Jun 15, 11:29*pm, Ron wrote:
On Jun 15, 11:05*pm, aemeijers wrote:



Ron wrote:
On Jun 15, 4:16 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message

...
On Jun 15, 10:59 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Tell your friend to stop being a moron for a day and get the belt & water
pump replaced.
Yeah, and why he's at it, he should also get the AC compressor and the
alternator replaced. (rolling eyes).

============

On what planet would the AC compressor make your **necessarily** car stop
running? *The word "necessarily" eliminates mentioning the one exceptional
condition under which it might happen, because that situation is avoidable
by operating a switch.

You obviously missed the point. No comment on the alternator? What
about the power steering pump...should he get that replaced also?

The whole concept of external vs. internal components hard for you to
grasp? You replace water pump with the rubber band timing belt because
the thing is apart anyway, and all you are paying for is the part. The
stuff hung off the engine is much less labor to change, other than the
evac/refill and pressure test on the A/C.

Please point out to me where the OP said the car in question has a
internal water pump driven by the timing belt, smartass.

Not ALL cars (including the 3 that I own) have an internal water pump,
Mr Know It All.

BTW, a LOT of "garages" use ****ty aftermarket parts that won't last
as long as the factory part anyway.

Case in point.......I had the right front wheel bearing replaced on my
Honda at 85,000 miles, now 10,000 miles later, it is already failing.

And that was at a chain tire store.

In article ,
(Doug Miller) wrote:



If you *are* getting 300K out of a car, then regardless of what you're
*buying*, you're *keeping* ****ty cars.

I prefer to get rid of them before they get that way. But hey, if you like to
drive ****ty cars just so you can brag about getting 300K out of them, be my
guest. You must really enjoy that 1973 Plymouth, huh?

Current vehicle is a 98 avalon with 225,000 miles. It runs and drives as
new.

On Jun 15, 10:39*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
2004 Honda Odyssey
3.5L SOHC, 24-Valve, VTEC V6 engine

Looking up a timing belt kit on the Advance Auto web site shows the
following note: "Timing Belt Kit;Interference engine"
From NAPA: "Comments: Interference Engine"

Not exactly conclusive, but others will know better where to verify.

"Ron" wrote in message
...
On Jun 15, 11:05 pm, aemeijers wrote:
Ron wrote:
On Jun 15, 4:16 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message

...
On Jun 15, 10:59 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Tell your friend to stop being a moron for a day and get the belt &
water
pump replaced.
Yeah, and why he's at it, he should also get the AC compressor and the
alternator replaced. (rolling eyes).

============

On what planet would the AC compressor make your **necessarily** car
stop
running? The word "necessarily" eliminates mentioning the one
exceptional
condition under which it might happen, because that situation is
avoidable
by operating a switch.

You obviously missed the point. No comment on the alternator? What
about the power steering pump...should he get that replaced also?

The whole concept of external vs. internal components hard for you to
grasp? You replace water pump with the rubber band timing belt because
the thing is apart anyway, and all you are paying for is the part. The
stuff hung off the engine is much less labor to change, other than the
evac/refill and pressure test on the A/C.


Please point out to me where the OP said the car in question has a
internal water pump driven by the timing belt, smartass.
===================

Everyone else in the discussion realized that we were talking about internal
water pumps. Case closed.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jun 15, 6:27 pm, (Larry W) wrote:
In article ,JoeSpareBedro om
wrote:

...snipped...It was my friend who told the mechanic that the timing
belt was on the
dealer's 90K replacement list and he asked for quote to replace it.

It was the mechanic who replied that 90K was too early. The tranny
fluid change made sense, replacing the spark plugs was probably a good
idea, valve adjustments if there was any chatter, but changing the
timing belt was not needed.

It other words it was the mechanic(s) who made the "pointless attempt
to predict the future".

...snipped...

Speaking from over 30 years experience in vehicle and mobile equipment
maintenance, the likely translation of this is "I don't own the special
tools that would enable me to do the job quickly enough to make any
money at a price competitive with a shop that DOES own the tools.

--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

That may be the case, but my friend got the same answer from more than
one shop, including the one that I trust...the one that I am sure can
handle that job with ease.
=============

And my excellent mechanic says "Are you a gambler? Will you be staying close
to home until the belt fails? Then don't replace it."

He's 100% correct to ask these questions.

On 6/15/2010 11:47 PM, Ron wrote:
On Jun 15, 11:29 pm, wrote:
On Jun 15, 11:05 pm, wrote:



Ron wrote:
On Jun 15, 4:16 pm,
wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jun 15, 10:59 am,
wrote:

Tell your friend to stop being a moron for a day and get the belt& water
pump replaced.
Yeah, and why he's at it, he should also get the AC compressor and the
alternator replaced. (rolling eyes).

============

On what planet would the AC compressor make your **necessarily** car stop
running? The word "necessarily" eliminates mentioning the one exceptional
condition under which it might happen, because that situation is avoidable
by operating a switch.

You obviously missed the point. No comment on the alternator? What
about the power steering pump...should he get that replaced also?

The whole concept of external vs. internal components hard for you to
grasp? You replace water pump with the rubber band timing belt because
the thing is apart anyway, and all you are paying for is the part. The
stuff hung off the engine is much less labor to change, other than the
evac/refill and pressure test on the A/C.

Please point out to me where the OP said the car in question has a
internal water pump driven by the timing belt, smartass.

Not ALL cars (including the 3 that I own) have an internal water pump,
Mr Know It All.

BTW, a LOT of "garages" use ****ty aftermarket parts that won't last
as long as the factory part anyway.


Sure, only because lots of folks seemed to have totally embraced cheap
instead of value. We use an evil mom & pop place and he will explicitly
offer both the junky parts and the quality parts when quoting a repair.

Case in point.......I had the right front wheel bearing replaced on my
Honda at 85,000 miles, now 10,000 miles later, it is already failing.

And that was at a chain tire store.

I wouldn't expect any different. But they do have great marketing...

On Jun 16, 8:35*am, George wrote:
On 6/15/2010 11:47 PM, Ron wrote:





On Jun 15, 11:29 pm, *wrote:
On Jun 15, 11:05 pm, *wrote:

Ron wrote:
On Jun 15, 4:16 pm,
wrote:
*wrote in message

...
On Jun 15, 10:59 am,
wrote:

Tell your friend to stop being a moron for a day and get the belt& *water
pump replaced.
Yeah, and why he's at it, he should also get the AC compressor and the
alternator replaced. (rolling eyes).

============

On what planet would the AC compressor make your **necessarily** car stop
running? *The word "necessarily" eliminates mentioning the one exceptional
condition under which it might happen, because that situation is avoidable
by operating a switch.

You obviously missed the point. No comment on the alternator? What
about the power steering pump...should he get that replaced also?

The whole concept of external vs. internal components hard for you to
grasp? You replace water pump with the rubber band timing belt because
the thing is apart anyway, and all you are paying for is the part. The
stuff hung off the engine is much less labor to change, other than the
evac/refill and pressure test on the A/C.

Please point out to me where the OP said the car in question has a
internal water pump driven by the timing belt, smartass.

Not ALL cars (including the 3 that I own) have an internal water pump,
Mr Know It All.

BTW, a LOT of "garages" use ****ty aftermarket parts that won't last
as long as the factory part anyway.

Sure, only because lots of folks seemed to have totally embraced cheap
instead of value. We use an evil mom & pop place and he will explicitly
offer both the junky parts and the quality parts when quoting a repair.

Case in point.......I had the right front wheel bearing replaced on my
Honda at 85,000 miles, now 10,000 miles later, it is already failing.

And that was at a chain tire store.

I wouldn't expect any different. But they do have great marketing...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even a cheap chinese bearing will last a lot longer than that. It was
not lubricated properly when installed. You should go back and tell
them you want if done again, right, for free.

"Ron" wrote in message
...
On Jun 15, 11:29 pm, Ron wrote:

Case in point.......I had the right front wheel bearing replaced on my
Honda at 85,000 miles, now 10,000 miles later, it is already failing.

And that was at a chain tire store.

==================

You let chain tire stores work on your car? That invalidates EVERYTHING
you've said in this discussion, and everything you say in the future, unless
you repent.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 21:41:57 -0700, Smitty Two wrote:
Current vehicle is a 98 avalon with 225,000 miles. It runs and drives as
new.

Ours is a year older and has about 185,000 on it. Still on original
battery, alternator and exhaust. It goes through oil and power steering
fluid quite quickly, and one of the rear power windows gave up (motor
fault), but I can't really complain.

cheers

Jules

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:40:39 -0700, Ron wrote:
I can't even remember that last time I had a water pump fail....probably
sometime in the early 80's on a Celia that had about 150K on it.

I had one go on a Rover 216 (which had a Honda-built engine) at around
100k - I think it cost me about $60 for the pump and $40 for a new belt
(made sense to do that while I was at it). Took me a couple of hours to
do the work, so it wasn't too bad - the real pain was having it fail at
work rather than home, so I had to get a tow from a friend.

Oh, and I just checked the owners manuals for my Honda, Toyota, and
Mazda...and there is ZIPPO about replacing the water pump.

I don't think I'd expect that to be in the owner's manual; it's more of a
factory manual kind of thing.

On a lot of engines I've seen, the water pump runs at very high RPM,
which is why they have a harder life than a lot of other engine
components. They're not normally expensive, and it's usually trivial to
do the work while the timing belt's being done anyway. Alternators, PAS
pumps etc. don't stop the car from working and are easy to do without a
significant amount of work, so they can just be replaced when they fail.

cheers

Jules

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:57:56 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Actually, I believe it's snowed here twice in recorded history, but you
make a good point...

============

To make my point more interesting: Not keeping your car running well
could make you dead for 6 months of the year around here. :-)

:-) It'd be like that here (well, 4 months of the year anyway), if we
didn't make sure we always had food, blankets etc. in the trunk during
snow season.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:59:02 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"failure just means a tow"? Maybe.

Imagine suddenly NOT having engine power to maneuver around some sort of
hazard. That could be fun.

I've had it happen while passing once - it was a bit of a strange
experience because there was so much wind noise (I had the roof down)
that I couldn't hear the engine running anyway, so in the first instant
it wasn't obvious what the fault was until I saw the tacho needle sitting
at zero.

Turned out to be a broken wire to the coil; I was back on the road within
five minutes after a temporary fix. Fortunately there was a big enough
gap behind the line of cars that I was passing at the time that I could
tuck in behind them when the engine died and then park up off the
roadside.

cheers

Jules

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 17:27:32 -0700, wrote:

My 1990 Dodge caraven with 3.0 engine served me well for about 450,000
miles. It was sad when I finally replaced it.

My wife was just telling me yesterday how her mother used to have a Dodge
Caravan until the transmission failed. She got it fixed, then it failed
again. Then she replaced the whole vehicle... with another Dodge Caravan.
The transmission failed up on that one, too - at which point she gave up
and bought something else.

cheers

Jules

On Jun 16, 10:17*am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 17:27:32 -0700, wrote:
My 1990 Dodge caraven with 3.0 engine served me well for about 450,000
miles. It was sad when I finally replaced it.

My wife was just telling me yesterday how her mother used to have a Dodge
Caravan until the transmission failed. She got it fixed, then it failed
again. Then she replaced the whole vehicle... with another Dodge Caravan.
The transmission failed up on that one, too - at which point she gave up
and bought something else.

cheers

Jules

I've had Caravans and Voyagers, 4 total, early to mid-80's vintage.

They all had tranny issue's at one point or another.

On Jun 16, 10:08*am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:59:02 -0400, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"failure just means a tow"? Maybe.

Imagine suddenly NOT having engine power to maneuver around some sort of
hazard. That could be fun.

I've had it happen while passing once - it was a bit of a strange
experience because there was so much wind noise (I had the roof down)
that I couldn't hear the engine running anyway, so in the first instant
it wasn't obvious what the fault was until I saw the tacho needle sitting
at zero.

Turned out to be a broken wire to the coil; I was back on the road within
five minutes after a temporary fix. Fortunately there was a big enough
gap behind the line of cars that I was passing at the time that I could
tuck in behind them when the engine died and then park up off the
roadside.

cheers

Jules

I had a 1980 Mustang that had a bad Computer Module. I'd be humming
along at highway speeds and the car would just shut down. Boom! All
gauges to zero.

Slip her into neutral, re-start, and keep on cruising. I got so quick
at it, I barely lost any speed.

On 6/15/2010 7:38 PM, Tegger wrote:
wrote in news:6739e713-05c4-463b-a348-
:



Thoughts?



Just one. And it's a question. Well, two questions.
1) WHAT KIND OF CAR IS THIS?
2) WHAT ENGINE HAS IT GOT

Not all cars are the same. Not all engines are the same. Not all years of
the same car and/or engine are the same.

Leave out that info and all you'll get are possibly bogus guesses; shots in
the dark.



But aren't you supposed to purposely omit all of the details when asking
a question so a 100 post thread of guesses can form?

In article ,
George wrote:

But aren't you supposed to purposely omit all of the details when asking
a question so a 100 post thread of guesses can form?

Standard netiquette says that's Option 1. Option 2 is to provide
completely irrelevant background info going back to 1962, so you end up
with a rambling and disjointed 1500 word post that touches briefly on at
least 17 issues, and preferably lacking a question mark anywhere.

On Jun 16, 12:33*pm, George wrote:
On 6/15/2010 7:38 PM, Tegger wrote:





*wrote in news:6739e713-05c4-463b-a348-
:

Thoughts?

Just one. And it's a question. Well, two questions.
1) WHAT KIND OF CAR IS THIS?
2) WHAT ENGINE HAS IT GOT

Not all cars are the same. Not all engines are the same. Not all years of
the same car and/or engine are the same.

Leave out that info and all you'll get are possibly bogus guesses; shots in
the dark.

But aren't you supposed to purposely omit all of the details when asking
a question so a 100 post thread of guesses can form?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ahh, but it appears that the point of my OP was missed.

The vehicle info was *purposely* left out because the question, as per
the subject line, was about the *Decision Process*, not about at what
mileage the timing belt should be replaced in any given vehicle.

Given that odds are the owner isn't going to keep the (any!) vehicle
for the alleged life of 2 timing belts (220K) or even the "dealer
life" (180K) why would he (or a mechanic) consider waiting any longer
than the 90K suggested in the manual?

It was about the logic behind deciding to delay the replacement and
not about the life expectancy of the belt in any specific vehicle.

On Jun 16, 8:22*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message

...
On Jun 15, 11:05 pm, aemeijers wrote:



Ron wrote:
On Jun 15, 4:16 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message

...
On Jun 15, 10:59 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Tell your friend to stop being a moron for a day and get the belt &
water
pump replaced.
Yeah, and why he's at it, he should also get the AC compressor and the
alternator replaced. (rolling eyes).

============

On what planet would the AC compressor make your **necessarily** car
stop
running? The word "necessarily" eliminates mentioning the one
exceptional
condition under which it might happen, because that situation is
avoidable
by operating a switch.

You obviously missed the point. No comment on the alternator? What
about the power steering pump...should he get that replaced also?

The whole concept of external vs. internal components hard for you to
grasp? You replace water pump with the rubber band timing belt because
the thing is apart anyway, and all you are paying for is the part. The
stuff hung off the engine is much less labor to change, other than the
evac/refill and pressure test on the A/C.

Please point out to me where the OP said the car in question has a
internal water pump driven by the timing belt, smartass.
===================

Everyone else in the discussion realized that we were talking about internal
water pumps. Case closed.

You don't have a case.

On Jun 16, 1:24*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
The vehicle info was *purposely* left out because the question, as per
the subject line, was about the *Decision Process*, not about at what
mileage the timing belt should be replaced in any given vehicle.

But the decision process takes a different path depending on whether a
failed belt causes damage or just leaves him stranded, which depends
on the vehicle. I think leaving out the vehicle was based on
underestimating the complexity of the question rather than wanting a
complex decision tree as an answer.

On 6/16/2010 1:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jun 16, 12:33 pm, wrote:
On 6/15/2010 7:38 PM, Tegger wrote:





wrote in news:6739e713-05c4-463b-a348-
:

Thoughts?

Just one. And it's a question. Well, two questions.
1) WHAT KIND OF CAR IS THIS?
2) WHAT ENGINE HAS IT GOT

Not all cars are the same. Not all engines are the same. Not all years of
the same car and/or engine are the same.

Leave out that info and all you'll get are possibly bogus guesses; shots in
the dark.

But aren't you supposed to purposely omit all of the details when asking
a question so a 100 post thread of guesses can form?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ahh, but it appears that the point of my OP was missed.

The vehicle info was *purposely* left out because the question, as per
the subject line, was about the *Decision Process*, not about at what
mileage the timing belt should be replaced in any given vehicle.


So since you acknowledge you purposely left out key information how
could you hope to get reasonable answers about the "decision process"?
In what way would it have hurt to disclose the type of vehicle so the
very pertinent info as to whether it was an interference engine or not?


Given that odds are the owner isn't going to keep the (any!) vehicle
for the alleged life of 2 timing belts (220K) or even the "dealer
life" (180K) why would he (or a mechanic) consider waiting any longer
than the 90K suggested in the manual?

It was about the logic behind deciding to delay the replacement and
not about the life expectancy of the belt in any specific vehicle.

On Jun 16, 2:51*pm, Larry Fishel wrote:
On Jun 16, 1:24*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

The vehicle info was *purposely* left out because the question, as per
the subject line, was about the *Decision Process*, not about at what
mileage the timing belt should be replaced in any given vehicle.

But the decision process takes a different path depending on whether a
failed belt causes damage or just leaves him stranded, which depends
on the vehicle. I think leaving out the vehicle was based on
underestimating the complexity of the question rather than wanting a
complex decision tree as an answer.

Do you not think that the mechanics (plural) who said "wait" know
whether or not the "failed belt causes damage or just leaves him
stranded"?

Assuming they took that into consideration and still said "wait",
doesn't that bring it back to the "decision process" independent of
the vehicle?

On Jun 16, 3:30*pm, George wrote:
On 6/16/2010 1:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Jun 16, 12:33 pm, *wrote:
On 6/15/2010 7:38 PM, Tegger wrote:

* *wrote in news:6739e713-05c4-463b-a348-
:

Thoughts?

Just one. And it's a question. Well, two questions.
1) WHAT KIND OF CAR IS THIS?
2) WHAT ENGINE HAS IT GOT

Not all cars are the same. Not all engines are the same. Not all years of
the same car and/or engine are the same.

Leave out that info and all you'll get are possibly bogus guesses; shots in
the dark.

But aren't you supposed to purposely omit all of the details when asking
a question so a 100 post thread of guesses can form?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ahh, but it appears that the point of my OP was missed.

The vehicle info was *purposely* left out because the question, as per
the subject line, was about the *Decision Process*, not about at what
mileage the timing belt should be replaced in any given vehicle.

So since you acknowledge you purposely left out key information how
could you hope to get reasonable answers about the "decision process"?
In what way would it have hurt to disclose the type of vehicle so the
very pertinent info as to whether it was an interference engine or not?





Given that odds are the owner isn't going to keep the (any!) vehicle
for the alleged life of 2 timing belts (220K) or even the "dealer
life" (180K) why would he (or a mechanic) consider waiting any longer
than the 90K suggested in the manual?

It was about the logic behind deciding to delay the replacement and
not about the life expectancy of the belt in any specific vehicle.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

See my reply to Larry.

"DerbyDad03" wrote
Do you not think that the mechanics (plural) who said "wait" know
whether or not the "failed belt causes damage or just leaves him
stranded"?

Assuming they took that into consideration and still said "wait",
doesn't that bring it back to the "decision process" independent of
the vehicle?

One thing I've learned over the years, ASSume nothing. Lots of dumb people
out there.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:47:35 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Jun 15, 11:29Â*pm, Ron wrote:
On Jun 15, 11:05Â*pm, aemeijers wrote:



Ron wrote:
On Jun 15, 4:16 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message

...
On Jun 15, 10:59 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Tell your friend to stop being a moron for a day and get the belt & water
pump replaced.
Yeah, and why he's at it, he should also get the AC compressor and the
alternator replaced. (rolling eyes).

============

On what planet would the AC compressor make your **necessarily** car stop
running? Â*The word "necessarily" eliminates mentioning the one exceptional
condition under which it might happen, because that situation is avoidable
by operating a switch.

You obviously missed the point. No comment on the alternator? What
about the power steering pump...should he get that replaced also?

The whole concept of external vs. internal components hard for you to
grasp? You replace water pump with the rubber band timing belt because
the thing is apart anyway, and all you are paying for is the part. The
stuff hung off the engine is much less labor to change, other than the
evac/refill and pressure test on the A/C.

Please point out to me where the OP said the car in question has a
internal water pump driven by the timing belt, smartass.

Not ALL cars (including the 3 that I own) have an internal water pump,
Mr Know It All.

BTW, a LOT of "garages" use ****ty aftermarket parts that won't last
as long as the factory part anyway.

Case in point.......I had the right front wheel bearing replaced on my
Honda at 85,000 miles, now 10,000 miles later, it is already failing.

And that was at a chain tire store.
I can almost guarantee the problem was not the quality of the
replacement part but the intelligence of the trained gorilla that
installed it. Chain tire stores are NOT the place to have mechanical
repairs performed.