What I've got here is copper pipe coming in as the water main from the
street and whoever did the installation bent the pipe from where it
comes up from under the foundation to save the work of soldering two
joints, and worse, he installed the main valve too close to that bend
so that the pipe is out of round where it goes into the solder joint
for the main valve--all it took was that hard frost last winter to
break it.

I have plans to replace all that copper plumbing with Pex, but to do
that I have to install a Gator-Bite Pipe fitting to make the union
between that copper water main and the new Pex. WHAT I NEED TO
KNOW . . .

Is there some kind of an insert available that can be tapped into that
3/4" copper pipe to remove the distortion so that those really
critical clearances for the Gator-Bite nipple will fit?

I know there are many professional plumbers who disapprove of Gator-
Bite fittings--but for what reason, I haven't the foggiest idea. All I
know is that I've had no trouble with them whatsoever. The trouble I
get is from solder joints that can't stand up to a freeze, where
cemented plastic pipe can. So I'm not looking for a lecture on the
glories of copper pipe, and the joys of torching solder joints to it.
I hate the rotten, poisonous, out-dated junk, and I want it out of my
house for good.

Any help on the specific issue will be gratefully received. Is there
such an insert (or anything that will fit that inside diameter to do
the job) and where can it be purchased?

Thank You.
JM

"JM" wrote in message
...
What I've got here is copper pipe coming in as the water main from the
street and whoever did the installation bent the pipe from where it
comes up from under the foundation to save the work of soldering two
joints, and worse, he installed the main valve too close to that bend
so that the pipe is out of round where it goes into the solder joint
for the main valve--all it took was that hard frost last winter to
break it.

I have plans to replace all that copper plumbing with Pex, but to do
that I have to install a Gator-Bite Pipe fitting to make the union
between that copper water main and the new Pex. WHAT I NEED TO
KNOW . . .

Is there some kind of an insert available that can be tapped into that
3/4" copper pipe to remove the distortion so that those really
critical clearances for the Gator-Bite nipple will fit?

I know there are many professional plumbers who disapprove of Gator-
Bite fittings--but for what reason, I haven't the foggiest idea. All I
know is that I've had no trouble with them whatsoever. The trouble I
get is from solder joints that can't stand up to a freeze, where
cemented plastic pipe can. So I'm not looking for a lecture on the
glories of copper pipe, and the joys of torching solder joints to it.
I hate the rotten, poisonous, out-dated junk, and I want it out of my
house for good.

Any help on the specific issue will be gratefully received. Is there
such an insert (or anything that will fit that inside diameter to do
the job) and where can it be purchased?

Thank You.
JM



No...You will have to cut the bad section off...How you put it back together
is up to you...I wouldn't want you to have to use , rotten, poisonous,
out-dated junk...

The trouble I
get is from solder joints that can't stand up to a freeze, where
cemented plastic pipe can.

Where do you get that idea! I live in the land of the cold, and had a number
of soldered copper pipes freeze when I didn't drain them properly. In my
experiences, if the solder joint is done properly, it will not fail but the
pipe will split. Better is to prevent the pipes from freezing as the frozen
pipe will be damaged in one way or another. When ice is formed it expands
and can split a pipe, crack an elbow, or damage the hardest rock or
concrete. You need to either use insulation or heat to correct the problem
or change the location.

"JM" wrote in message
...
What I've got here is copper pipe

Copper is tubing. If you are saying the line is annealed (soft) copper,
then that first joint should have been flared (in my neck of the woods). If
it is indeed soft copper, just take a flaring tool and pound it inside the
tubing. Stop before it gets to the flare shoulder, and pull it out. Sand
the outside of the tube lightly, and it is prepped for just about any
slip-on, solder, or compression joint that you may favor. If you choose
Gator-bite, the key to success is proper alignment, and subsequent proper
permanent support. The reason plumbers probabaly would'nt prefer it is;
o-ring will fail with time, and almost any gimicky new fangled fitting
system is not really practical, cost wise. Don't buy into any of that
labor-saving bull-hooey. Any good plumber does a permanent solder joint in
no-time flat, with the proper tools.

HTH, Lefty

On May 4, 2:48*pm, JM wrote:
What I've got here is copper pipe coming in as the water main from the
street and whoever did the installation bent the pipe from where it
comes up from under the foundation to save the work of soldering two
joints, and worse, he installed the main valve too close to that bend
so that the pipe is out of round where it goes into the solder joint
for the main valve--all it took was that hard frost last winter to
break it.

I have plans to replace all that copper plumbing with Pex, but to do
that I have to install a Gator-Bite Pipe fitting to make the union
between that copper water main and the new Pex. WHAT I NEED TO
KNOW . . .

Is there some kind of an insert available that can be tapped into that
3/4" copper pipe to remove the distortion so that those really
critical clearances for the Gator-Bite nipple will fit?

I know there are many professional plumbers who disapprove of Gator-
Bite fittings--but for what reason, I haven't the foggiest idea. All I
know is that I've had no trouble with them whatsoever. *The trouble I
get is from solder joints that can't stand up to a freeze, where
cemented plastic pipe can. *So I'm not looking for a lecture on the
glories of copper pipe, and the joys of torching solder joints to it.
I hate the rotten, poisonous, out-dated junk, and I want it out of my
house for good.

Any help on the specific issue will be gratefully received. Is there
such an insert (or anything that will fit that inside diameter to do
the job) and where can it be purchased?

Thank You.
JM


Is your water meter attached to that line ?

Will the local inspector allow you to replace the portion of the pipe
before the meter with pex, usually copper pipe is used until past
the water meter then you can transition to whatever floats your
boat...

~~ Evan

On May 4, 11:48*am, JM wrote:
What I've got here is copper pipe coming in as the water main from the
street and whoever did the installation bent the pipe from where it
comes up from under the foundation to save the work of soldering two
joints, and worse, he installed the main valve too close to that bend
so that the pipe is out of round where it goes into the solder joint
for the main valve--all it took was that hard frost last winter to
break it.

I have plans to replace all that copper plumbing with Pex, but to do
that I have to install a Gator-Bite Pipe fitting to make the union
between that copper water main and the new Pex. WHAT I NEED TO
KNOW . . .

Is there some kind of an insert available that can be tapped into that
3/4" copper pipe to remove the distortion so that those really
critical clearances for the Gator-Bite nipple will fit?

I know there are many professional plumbers who disapprove of Gator-
Bite fittings--but for what reason, I haven't the foggiest idea. All I
know is that I've had no trouble with them whatsoever. *The trouble I
get is from solder joints that can't stand up to a freeze, where
cemented plastic pipe can. *So I'm not looking for a lecture on the
glories of copper pipe, and the joys of torching solder joints to it.
I hate the rotten, poisonous, out-dated junk, and I want it out of my
house for good.

Any help on the specific issue will be gratefully received. Is there
such an insert (or anything that will fit that inside diameter to do
the job) and where can it be purchased?

Thank You.
JM

http://www.uniweld.com/Larger_View/70046.jpg

On May 4, 7:37*pm, Evan wrote:
On May 4, 2:48*pm, JM wrote:





What I've got here is copper pipe coming in as the water main from the
street and whoever did the installation bent the pipe from where it
comes up from under the foundation to save the work of soldering two
joints, and worse, he installed the main valve too close to that bend
so that the pipe is out of round where it goes into the solder joint
for the main valve--all it took was that hard frost last winter to
break it.

I have plans to replace all that copper plumbing with Pex, but to do
that I have to install a Gator-Bite Pipe fitting to make the union
between that copper water main and the new Pex. WHAT I NEED TO
KNOW . . .

Is there some kind of an insert available that can be tapped into that
3/4" copper pipe to remove the distortion so that those really
critical clearances for the Gator-Bite nipple will fit?

I know there are many professional plumbers who disapprove of Gator-
Bite fittings--but for what reason, I haven't the foggiest idea. All I
know is that I've had no trouble with them whatsoever. *The trouble I
get is from solder joints that can't stand up to a freeze, where
cemented plastic pipe can. *So I'm not looking for a lecture on the
glories of copper pipe, and the joys of torching solder joints to it.
I hate the rotten, poisonous, out-dated junk, and I want it out of my
house for good.

Any help on the specific issue will be gratefully received. Is there
such an insert (or anything that will fit that inside diameter to do
the job) and where can it be purchased?

Thank You.
JM

Is your water meter attached to that line ?

Will the local inspector allow you to replace the portion of the pipe
before the meter with pex, usually copper pipe is used until past
the water meter then you can transition to whatever floats your
boat...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Correct check your code requirments , and if you need some one to
solder call a plumber. Plastic pipe will freeze and break easier then
copper as it is not as high a pressure rating . Pex will take the
freeze but should be replaced if frozen in the same place twice. O
Iam a plumber so enjoy your job .

On May 4, 5:13*pm, "EXT" wrote:

Where do you get that idea! I live in the land of the cold, and had a number
of soldered copper pipes freeze when I didn't drain them properly. In my
experiences, if the solder joint is done properly, it will not fail but the
pipe will split.

No "idea" to it, strictly observation. Take what we got in our other
house, a restoration project going on now for the third year--a 1,200
sq. ft. log home with fireplace and wood-stove heating; entirely
plumbed with PVC and CPVC. All that pipe is hung from the floor joists
under the house, not an inch of which is wrapped. For three winters
now (and this has been a cold one for southern Missouri) there has
been no heat in our as yet unrestored central lodge of the house,
under which all that pipe passes from the north to the south wing
which are the currently restored living areas either side the lodge;
each wing having its own stove, and both being entirely closed off
from the main lodge. During our first winter here, we had no electric
heater out in the pump house, just a 100 watt light bulb left on
through the coldest nights. Came a night when it wasn't enough and the
brass shut-off valve going to the outdoor pump-house faucet froze up
and split.

That's not all. That valve was a replacement I made, for a length of
copper line that had frozen and split during the winter before we
bought the place. All that PVC and CPVC running underground to the
house and under the floor was intact when we bought the place, and has
so remained ever since. The afore-mentioned copper line to the outside
pump-house valve was split, I replaced it with a new outside valve and
length of STEEL pipe which I joined to an inside brass shut-off valve
to the steel line on the pressure tank. That brass fitting, thick as
it was, split wide open, just like that no-count, out of date, junky,
horse & buggy copper tube.

So, what does that tell me? Plainly, clearly, obviously, plastic pipe
has the elastic capacity to expand when water freezes within. Copper
tubing and brass have NO such capacity and can only split under
pressure. Anybody who can't understand that difference between the
tensile strength of plastic versus copper, needs to get the junky old
plumbing in his head replaced.

Don't get mad! Get even: smile. ;-)

So like I say, there is no "idea" to it, but simple observation of the
facts, the experience of seeing what happens to this as opposed to
that. In a southern Missouri climate, the PVC can stand it, the copper
can't. Simple as that.Copper plumbing is a lot of outdated, needlessly
labor intensive junk that should have gone out with the horse and
buggy--but for the dictatorial demands of out-dated, brainless
building codes that have no place in a democracy of free people. And
I'll tell you: I don't give a hoot what the code says. This is MY
house and I'll plumb it just as I see fit. I mean, what do they think
this is running through my lines, nitric acid for the godsakes? It's
just water! Why would they need a code for that? Let them come and
bust me for it. Then I'll have my day in court to tell 'em what I
think of their dictatorial un-American poison peddling crap. Look up
"copper sulfate" sometime in a list of poisons, if you think there's
something real nice about drinking water fed to you through a dirty
old line of that! It's used as a pesticide, like arsenic . . .

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_...Rec_Id=PC33541

Better is to prevent the pipes from freezing as the frozen
pipe will be damaged in one way or another.

Well of course! That's why I installed for that house (which is vacant
and up for sale) a tee, adapter, hose connector and cap so that come
winter I can drain all the water out of the house. Lo and behold there
was still some water trapped in the line. Argh! Next winter if the
place is still not off my hands I'll bring my air compressor to blow
it all out of there through the faucets, just like we do for the motor-
home.

When ice is formed it expands
and can split a pipe, crack an elbow, or damage the hardest rock or
concrete.

I don't know which is dumber, the kind of home-owner who wouldn't know
that, or the kind who thinks he would have to tell another home-owner
about it. Maybe you got some advice on the advantage of cutting grass
with a lawn-mower over a pair of electric hair-clippers? C'mon pal,
tell me something I don't know!

You need to either use insulation or heat to correct the problem
or change the location.

Nope. I'll use that drain I installed and the air-compressor, just
like I said--but you know, EXT, thanks all the same. :-)

--Thanks to Molly for the pretty picture. I'll look for that.
--And to Lefty for the description of how to use it--stopping short of
that shoulder so it doesn't flare. And especially to Lefty AND Molly
for saving me the trouble of doing as Benick suggests, digging all the
way under that foundation to get at a straight section of tube! Oof.
--To Evan and Jim for the story on pex.
--
JM

"JM" wrote in message
...
On May 4, 5:13 pm, "EXT" wrote:

Where do you get that idea! I live in the land of the cold, and had a
number
of soldered copper pipes freeze when I didn't drain them properly. In my
experiences, if the solder joint is done properly, it will not fail but
the
pipe will split.

No "idea" to it, strictly observation. Take what we got in our other
house, a restoration project going on now for the third year--a 1,200
sq. ft. log home with fireplace and wood-stove heating; entirely
plumbed with PVC and CPVC. All that pipe is hung from the floor joists
under the house, not an inch of which is wrapped. For three winters
now (and this has been a cold one for southern Missouri) there has
been no heat in our as yet unrestored central lodge of the house,
under which all that pipe passes from the north to the south wing
which are the currently restored living areas either side the lodge;
each wing having its own stove, and both being entirely closed off
from the main lodge. During our first winter here, we had no electric
heater out in the pump house, just a 100 watt light bulb left on
through the coldest nights. Came a night when it wasn't enough and the
brass shut-off valve going to the outdoor pump-house faucet froze up
and split.

That's not all. That valve was a replacement I made, for a length of
copper line that had frozen and split during the winter before we
bought the place. All that PVC and CPVC running underground to the
house and under the floor was intact when we bought the place, and has
so remained ever since. The afore-mentioned copper line to the outside
pump-house valve was split, I replaced it with a new outside valve and
length of STEEL pipe which I joined to an inside brass shut-off valve
to the steel line on the pressure tank. That brass fitting, thick as
it was, split wide open, just like that no-count, out of date, junky,
horse & buggy copper tube.

So, what does that tell me? Plainly, clearly, obviously, plastic pipe
has the elastic capacity to expand when water freezes within. Copper
tubing and brass have NO such capacity and can only split under
pressure. Anybody who can't understand that difference between the
tensile strength of plastic versus copper, needs to get the junky old
plumbing in his head replaced.

Don't get mad! Get even: smile. ;-)

So like I say, there is no "idea" to it, but simple observation of the
facts, the experience of seeing what happens to this as opposed to
that. In a southern Missouri climate, the PVC can stand it, the copper
can't. Simple as that.Copper plumbing is a lot of outdated, needlessly
labor intensive junk that should have gone out with the horse and
buggy--but for the dictatorial demands of out-dated, brainless
building codes that have no place in a democracy of free people. And
I'll tell you: I don't give a hoot what the code says. This is MY
house and I'll plumb it just as I see fit. I mean, what do they think
this is running through my lines, nitric acid for the godsakes? It's
just water! Why would they need a code for that? Let them come and
bust me for it. Then I'll have my day in court to tell 'em what I
think of their dictatorial un-American poison peddling crap. Look up
"copper sulfate" sometime in a list of poisons, if you think there's
something real nice about drinking water fed to you through a dirty
old line of that! It's used as a pesticide, like arsenic . . .

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_...Rec_Id=PC33541

Better is to prevent the pipes from freezing as the frozen
pipe will be damaged in one way or another.

Well of course! That's why I installed for that house (which is vacant
and up for sale) a tee, adapter, hose connector and cap so that come
winter I can drain all the water out of the house. Lo and behold there
was still some water trapped in the line. Argh! Next winter if the
place is still not off my hands I'll bring my air compressor to blow
it all out of there through the faucets, just like we do for the motor-
home.

When ice is formed it expands
and can split a pipe, crack an elbow, or damage the hardest rock or
concrete.

I don't know which is dumber, the kind of home-owner who wouldn't know
that, or the kind who thinks he would have to tell another home-owner
about it. Maybe you got some advice on the advantage of cutting grass
with a lawn-mower over a pair of electric hair-clippers? C'mon pal,
tell me something I don't know!

You need to either use insulation or heat to correct the problem
or change the location.

Nope. I'll use that drain I installed and the air-compressor, just
like I said--but you know, EXT, thanks all the same. :-)

--Thanks to Molly for the pretty picture. I'll look for that.
--And to Lefty for the description of how to use it--stopping short of
that shoulder so it doesn't flare. And especially to Lefty AND Molly
for saving me the trouble of doing as Benick suggests, digging all the
way under that foundation to get at a straight section of tube! Oof.
--To Evan and Jim for the story on pex.
--
JM


Are you a natural born asshole or is that something you have to work at ???
I'm betting natural born...

JM wrote:
What I've got here is copper pipe coming in as the water main from the
street and whoever did the installation bent the pipe from where it
comes up from under the foundation to save the work of soldering two
joints, and worse, he installed the main valve too close to that bend
so that the pipe is out of round where it goes into the solder joint
for the main valve--all it took was that hard frost last winter to
break it.

I have plans to replace all that copper plumbing with Pex, but to do
that I have to install a Gator-Bite Pipe fitting to make the union
between that copper water main and the new Pex. WHAT I NEED TO
KNOW . . .

Is there some kind of an insert available that can be tapped into that
3/4" copper pipe to remove the distortion so that those really
critical clearances for the Gator-Bite nipple will fit?

I know there are many professional plumbers who disapprove of Gator-
Bite fittings--but for what reason, I haven't the foggiest idea. All I
know is that I've had no trouble with them whatsoever. The trouble I
get is from solder joints that can't stand up to a freeze, where
cemented plastic pipe can. So I'm not looking for a lecture on the
glories of copper pipe, and the joys of torching solder joints to it.
I hate the rotten, poisonous, out-dated junk, and I want it out of my
house for good.

Any help on the specific issue will be gratefully received. Is there
such an insert (or anything that will fit that inside diameter to do
the job) and where can it be purchased?

Thank You.
JM

While you're at it you should check your water pressure and install
a pressure regulator if the water pressure is too high. If you're
redoing your plumbing anyway, a regulator is not that expensive.

TDD

On May 5, 8:00*pm, "benick" wrote:

Are you a natural born asshole or is that something you have to work at ???
I'm betting natural born...

Neither. It's something you have to study in college, Jack. Yeah! But
just as it is with med school and pre-med, first you have to complete
your under-graduate pre-asshole studies. You'll get there if you'll
only apply yourself. Looks like you have all the qualities to make a
professional career of it some day. And you'll receive that highly
coveted diploma for your wall that says in gold embossed Latin, "It
Takes One to Know One."
--
JM

On May 5, 9:23*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

While you're at it you should check your water pressure and install
a pressure regulator if the water pressure is too high. If you're
redoing your plumbing anyway, a regulator is not that expensive.

TDD

Sounds like a good idea.
--
JM