A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the furnace room
were were doing what they do in old age. After the electrician had
installed AC-connected smoke detectors, I saw that the light was
partially on even when switch off. So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your advice
beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to do.

How can it be partially on when the switch is off? How can
disconnecting the fixture be more effective in turning it off than
just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. Certainly the new AC smoke detector
doesn't have a magnetic field strong enough to make this happen.

Advice?

On Apr 23, 9:07*am, mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the furnace room
were were doing what they do in old age. *After the electrician had
installed AC-connected smoke detectors, I saw that the light was
partially on even when switch off. *So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your advice
beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to do.

How can it be partially on when the switch is off? * How can
disconnecting the fixture be more effective in turning it off than
just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. * Certainly the new AC smoke detector
doesn't have a magnetic field strong enough to make this happen.

Advice?

Fix the wiring. It sounds like the neutral is being switched and
there is another (fault) path to ground somewhere. This is a
dangerous situation, to say the least.

mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the furnace room
were were doing what they do in old age. After the electrician had
installed AC-connected smoke detectors, I saw that the light was
partially on even when switch off. So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your advice
beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to do.

How can it be partially on when the switch is off? How can
disconnecting the fixture be more effective in turning it off than
just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. Certainly the new AC smoke detector
doesn't have a magnetic field strong enough to make this happen.

Advice?


Florescent fixtures will glow like that if the neutral is switched
instead of the hot wire. The electrician took a shortcut to keep
power on the smoke detectors and that is the result. Not very
professional, I wonder what other shortcuts he/she/it may have
taken?

TDD

On Apr 23, 5:50*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the furnace room
were were doing what they do in old age. *After the electrician had
installed AC-connected smoke detectors, I saw that the light was
partially on even when switch off. *So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your advice
beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to do.

How can it be partially on when the switch is off? * How can
disconnecting the fixture be more effective in turning it off than
just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. * Certainly the new AC smoke detector
doesn't have a magnetic field strong enough to make this happen.

Advice?

Florescent fixtures will glow like that if the neutral is switched
instead of the hot wire. The electrician took a shortcut to keep
power on the smoke detectors and that is the result. Not very
professional, I wonder what other shortcuts he/she/it may have
taken?

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yup sounds like might be dicey wiring, possibly a wiring shortcut to
avoid another connection and/or create a situation where other work
will have to be done and paid for!
One does wonder what 'other' shortcut the electrician MAY have taken?
Possibly wiring the smoke detector between, say live and
ground????????????? To avoid running another wire?
Either get another electrician or get that one back at no extra
charge; then have the smoke detector disconnected and the light switch
operated in such a way that the 'live' lead (usually black or
occasionally red) to the fluorescent is clearly being switched off/on.
Have this fact proved using a light bulb.
Might be a remote chance something else is happening!
Smart to notice and ask the question; congratulations to the OP.

On Apr 23, 10:07*am, mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the furnace room
were were doing what they do in old age. *After the electrician had
installed AC-connected smoke detectors, I saw that the light was
partially on even when switch off. *So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your advice
beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to do.

How can it be partially on when the switch is off? * How can
disconnecting the fixture be more effective in turning it off than
just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. * Certainly the new AC smoke detector
doesn't have a magnetic field strong enough to make this happen.

Advice?

Sounds like whoever installed the smoke detector may have connected it
to the switch wires for the light.

Jimmie

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:03:45 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

On Apr 23, 10:07*am, mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the furnace room
were were doing what they do in old age. *After the electrician had
installed AC-connected smoke detectors, I saw that the light was
partially on even when switch off. *So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your advice
beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to do.

How can it be partially on when the switch is off? * How can
disconnecting the fixture be more effective in turning it off than
just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. * Certainly the new AC smoke detector
doesn't have a magnetic field strong enough to make this happen.

Advice?

Sounds like whoever installed the smoke detector may have connected it
to the switch wires for the light.

Jimmie

Thank you, and Keith, Dufas, and Terry. You all agree on the problem.
That' pretty good. I"m going over there on Sunday, and for once I'll
know something before I get to a project. I'm curious to see what can
be seen, and they'll give me lunch. I may just call him and tell him
what you said, to save myself time, but I really do what to see what
the ee-leck-trishon did, if I can. .

The Daring Dufas wrote:
mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the furnace room
were were doing what they do in old age. After the electrician had
installed AC-connected smoke detectors, I saw that the light was
partially on even when switch off. So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your advice
beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to do.
How can it be partially on when the switch is off? How can
disconnecting the fixture be more effective in turning it off than
just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. Certainly the new AC smoke detector
doesn't have a magnetic field strong enough to make this happen.
Advice?


Florescent fixtures will glow like that if the neutral is switched
instead of the hot wire. The electrician took a shortcut to keep
power on the smoke detectors and that is the result. Not very
professional, I wonder what other shortcuts he/she/it may have
taken?

TDD

I have an old, old florescent lamp on my desk, the type that has two
momentary buttons. A red start button instead of a starter and a black
button to turn it off. I didn't open it up, but I think the Black/Off
button switch is NC (normally closed) and just breaks the circuit while
depressed and letting go of the off button again completes the circuit,
but it needs the start switch again to warm the filaments to light. Now
and then I'll brush up against it and it will light dimly. You gave me
an idea. I'm going to try reversing the polarity by turning the plug
180 degrees and see if it still happens.

Tony wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the furnace room
were were doing what they do in old age. After the electrician had
installed AC-connected smoke detectors, I saw that the light was
partially on even when switch off. So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your advice
beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to do.
How can it be partially on when the switch is off? How can
disconnecting the fixture be more effective in turning it off than
just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. Certainly the new AC smoke detector
doesn't have a magnetic field strong enough to make this happen.
Advice?


Florescent fixtures will glow like that if the neutral is switched
instead of the hot wire. The electrician took a shortcut to keep
power on the smoke detectors and that is the result. Not very
professional, I wonder what other shortcuts he/she/it may have
taken?

TDD

I have an old, old florescent lamp on my desk, the type that has two
momentary buttons. A red start button instead of a starter and a black
button to turn it off. I didn't open it up, but I think the Black/Off
button switch is NC (normally closed) and just breaks the circuit while
depressed and letting go of the off button again completes the circuit,
but it needs the start switch again to warm the filaments to light. Now
and then I'll brush up against it and it will light dimly. You gave me
an idea. I'm going to try reversing the polarity by turning the plug
180 degrees and see if it still happens.

I love those old desk lights, I think I have one in storage. With
the right lamps, they're great for doing close detailed work.

TDD

On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 01:56:57 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:03:45 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

On Apr 23, 10:07*am, mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the furnace room
were were doing what they do in old age. *After the electrician had
installed AC-connected smoke detectors, I saw that the light was
partially on even when switch off. *So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your advice
beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to do.

How can it be partially on when the switch is off? * How can
disconnecting the fixture be more effective in turning it off than
just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. * Certainly the new AC smoke detector
doesn't have a magnetic field strong enough to make this happen.

Advice?

Sounds like whoever installed the smoke detector may have connected it
to the switch wires for the light.

Jimmie

Thank you, and Keith, Dufas, and Terry. You all agree on the problem.
That' pretty good. I"m going over there on Sunday, and for once I'll
know something before I get to a project. I'm curious to see what can
be seen, and they'll give me lunch. I may just call him and tell him
what you said, to save myself time, but I really do what to see what
the ee-leck-trishon did, if I can. .

Well, my friend forgot he had to go to a concert! so I only spent
about 5 minutes there. The electrician came highly recommended and my
friend called him today and the elec. said he hadn't done anything
wrong like that.

There seems to be no particular reason to think the wires to the light
were fiddled with because it looks like all the wires are right there.
The hot is as accessible as the neutral.

It was a round junction box, packed with 5 pieces of Romex**. On the
ceiling, and I only had a few minutes so I didnt' tug them apart, or
measure anything. Will go back with more tools and more time and a
radio to keep me company later this week.

**Power in, ceiling fluorescent out, switch for fluorescent out,
closet ceiling light out, and new wire to CO alarm and Smoke Alarm
out,

In article , mm wrote:
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 01:56:57 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:03:45 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

On Apr 23, 10:07*am, mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the furnace room
were were doing what they do in old age. *After the electrician had
installed AC-connected smoke detectors, I saw that the light was
partially on even when switch off. *So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your advice
beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to do.

How can it be partially on when the switch is off? * How can
disconnecting the fixture be more effective in turning it off than
just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. * Certainly the new AC smoke detector
doesn't have a magnetic field strong enough to make this happen.

Advice?

Sounds like whoever installed the smoke detector may have connected it
to the switch wires for the light.

Jimmie

Thank you, and Keith, Dufas, and Terry. You all agree on the problem.
That' pretty good. I"m going over there on Sunday, and for once I'll
know something before I get to a project. I'm curious to see what can
be seen, and they'll give me lunch. I may just call him and tell him
what you said, to save myself time, but I really do what to see what
the ee-leck-trishon did, if I can. .

Well, my friend forgot he had to go to a concert! so I only spent
about 5 minutes there. The electrician came highly recommended and my
friend called him today and the elec. said he hadn't done anything
wrong like that.

There seems to be no particular reason to think the wires to the light
were fiddled with because it looks like all the wires are right there.
The hot is as accessible as the neutral.

It was a round junction box, packed with 5 pieces of Romex**. On the
ceiling, and I only had a few minutes so I didnt' tug them apart, or
measure anything. Will go back with more tools and more time and a
radio to keep me company later this week.

**Power in, ceiling fluorescent out, switch for fluorescent out,
closet ceiling light out, and new wire to CO alarm and Smoke Alarm
out,

I would see if the ground wire of the romex cable going out to the
switch got disconnected from ground.

With the ground wire ungrounded, or with 2-wire romex (older
installations), there is enough capacitance between the hot and neutral
to allow easily tens of microamperes of current to flow through.

120V fluorescent fixtures with bulbs up to 22 watts and series inductor
ballasts sometimes continue to glow very dimly from this after being
switched off. At least usually, only one bulb on the same switch glows
from this low current. If more than one bulb is glowing, chances are the
cause is something else, such as nearby high voltage AC or high voltage
pulsating DC or a fairly powerful radio radiation source.

Although dim glow is often hard on the filaments, this very low amount
of current (flowing through a switch cable) appears to me to be fairly
harmless. However, I cannot guarantee that this will not shorten the life
of the bulbs. Meanwhile, if the switch cable's ground wire is not
connected to ground, then get that fixed. The ground wire is there for
safety purposes in case of the unlikely event that the hot wire contacts
the switch box.

--
- Don Klipstein )

In ,
mm typed:
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 01:56:57 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:03:45 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

On Apr 23, 10:07 am, mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the
furnace room were were doing what they do in old age.
After the electrician had installed AC-connected smoke
detectors, I saw that the light was partially on even
when switch off. So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or
install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your
advice beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to
do.

How can it be partially on when the switch is off? How
can disconnecting the fixture be more effective in
turning it off than just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. Certainly the new AC
smoke detector doesn't have a magnetic field strong
enough to make this happen.

Advice?

Sounds like whoever installed the smoke detector may have
connected it to the switch wires for the light.

Jimmie

Thank you, and Keith, Dufas, and Terry. You all agree on
the problem. That' pretty good. I"m going over there on
Sunday, and for once I'll know something before I get to a
project. I'm curious to see what can be seen, and they'll
give me lunch. I may just call him and tell him what you
said, to save myself time, but I really do what to see
what the ee-leck-trishon did, if I can. .

Well, my friend forgot he had to go to a concert! so I only
spent about 5 minutes there. The electrician came highly
recommended and my friend called him today and the elec.
said he hadn't done anything wrong like that.

There seems to be no particular reason to think the wires
to the light were fiddled with because it looks like all
the wires are right there. The hot is as accessible as the
neutral.

It was a round junction box, packed with 5 pieces of
Romex**. On the ceiling, and I only had a few minutes so I
didnt' tug them apart, or measure anything. Will go back
with more tools and more time and a radio to keep me
company later this week.

**Power in, ceiling fluorescent out, switch for fluorescent
out, closet ceiling light out, and new wire to CO alarm and
Smoke Alarm out,

That's a classic symptom of a missing ground for the fixture.

In ,
Don Klipstein typed:
In article , mm
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 01:56:57 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:03:45 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

On Apr 23, 10:07 am, mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in
the furnace room were were doing what they do in old
age. After the electrician had installed AC-connected
smoke detectors, I saw that the light was partially on
even when switch off. So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or
install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your
advice beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to
do.

How can it be partially on when the switch is off?
How can disconnecting the fixture be more effective in
turning it off than just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. Certainly the new AC
smoke detector doesn't have a magnetic field strong
enough to make this happen.

Advice?

Sounds like whoever installed the smoke detector may
have connected it to the switch wires for the light.

Jimmie

Thank you, and Keith, Dufas, and Terry. You all agree on
the problem. That' pretty good. I"m going over there on
Sunday, and for once I'll know something before I get to
a project. I'm curious to see what can be seen, and
they'll give me lunch. I may just call him and tell him
what you said, to save myself time, but I really do what
to see what the ee-leck-trishon did, if I can. .

Well, my friend forgot he had to go to a concert! so I
only spent about 5 minutes there. The electrician came
highly recommended and my friend called him today and the
elec. said he hadn't done anything wrong like that.

There seems to be no particular reason to think the wires
to the light were fiddled with because it looks like all
the wires are right there. The hot is as accessible as the
neutral.

It was a round junction box, packed with 5 pieces of
Romex**. On the ceiling, and I only had a few minutes so
I didnt' tug them apart, or measure anything. Will go
back with more tools and more time and a radio to keep me
company later this week.

**Power in, ceiling fluorescent out, switch for
fluorescent out, closet ceiling light out, and new wire to
CO alarm and Smoke Alarm out,

I would see if the ground wire of the romex cable going
out to the switch got disconnected from ground.

With the ground wire ungrounded, or with 2-wire romex
(older installations), there is enough capacitance between
the hot and neutral to allow easily tens of microamperes of
current to flow through.

120V fluorescent fixtures with bulbs up to 22 watts and
series inductor ballasts sometimes continue to glow very
dimly from this after being switched off. At least
usually, only one bulb on the same switch glows from this
low current. If more than one bulb is glowing, chances are
the cause is something else, such as nearby high voltage AC
or high voltage pulsating DC or a fairly powerful radio
radiation source.

Although dim glow is often hard on the filaments, this
very low amount of current (flowing through a switch cable)
appears to me to be fairly harmless. However, I cannot
guarantee that this will not shorten the life of the bulbs.
Meanwhile, if the switch cable's ground wire is not
connected to ground, then get that fixed. The ground wire
is there for safety purposes in case of the unlikely event
that the hot wire contacts the switch box.

The filaments are not lit; the missing ground simply never allows enough
bleed down to stop the glow of the gases.

On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 20:42:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , mm wrote:
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 01:56:57 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:03:45 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

On Apr 23, 10:07 am, mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the furnace room
were were doing what they do in old age. After the electrician had
installed AC-connected smoke detectors, I saw that the light was
partially on even when switch off. So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your advice
beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to do.

How can it be partially on when the switch is off? How can
disconnecting the fixture be more effective in turning it off than
just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. Certainly the new AC smoke detector
doesn't have a magnetic field strong enough to make this happen.

Advice?
Sounds like whoever installed the smoke detector may have connected it
to the switch wires for the light.

Jimmie
Thank you, and Keith, Dufas, and Terry. You all agree on the problem.
That' pretty good. I"m going over there on Sunday, and for once I'll
know something before I get to a project. I'm curious to see what can
be seen, and they'll give me lunch. I may just call him and tell him
what you said, to save myself time, but I really do what to see what
the ee-leck-trishon did, if I can. .
Well, my friend forgot he had to go to a concert! so I only spent
about 5 minutes there. The electrician came highly recommended and my
friend called him today and the elec. said he hadn't done anything
wrong like that.

There seems to be no particular reason to think the wires to the light
were fiddled with because it looks like all the wires are right there.
The hot is as accessible as the neutral.

It was a round junction box, packed with 5 pieces of Romex**. On the
ceiling, and I only had a few minutes so I didnt' tug them apart, or
measure anything. Will go back with more tools and more time and a
radio to keep me company later this week.

**Power in, ceiling fluorescent out, switch for fluorescent out,
closet ceiling light out, and new wire to CO alarm and Smoke Alarm
out,

I would see if the ground wire of the romex cable going out to the
switch got disconnected from ground.

With the ground wire ungrounded, or with 2-wire romex (older
installations), there is enough capacitance between the hot and neutral
to allow easily tens of microamperes of current to flow through.

120V fluorescent fixtures with bulbs up to 22 watts and series inductor
ballasts sometimes continue to glow very dimly from this after being
switched off. At least usually, only one bulb on the same switch glows
from this low current. If more than one bulb is glowing, chances are the
cause is something else, such as nearby high voltage AC or high voltage
pulsating DC or a fairly powerful radio radiation source.

Although dim glow is often hard on the filaments, this very low amount
of current (flowing through a switch cable) appears to me to be fairly
harmless. However, I cannot guarantee that this will not shorten the life
of the bulbs. Meanwhile, if the switch cable's ground wire is not
connected to ground, then get that fixed. The ground wire is there for
safety purposes in case of the unlikely event that the hot wire contacts
the switch box.


I forgot to ask if there was a lighted switch hooked to the fixture.
Folks have had problems with certain equipment when it was hooked to
a lighted switch.

No lighted switch. Just a regular toggle.

When it wouldnt' stop glowing he disconnected the fixture and it
appeared that there were three wires, two wires and a ground, but I
didn't measure any voltages. So I can't tell you more about it, and I
don't feel like going alone after all so I won't have more to report
until after Friday or maybe evne Sunday. I should probably start a
new thread then, because that will be 600 or 800 posts from nowr.

Thanks again, to all.

TDD

mm wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 20:42:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , mm wrote:
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 01:56:57 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:03:45 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

On Apr 23, 10:07 am, mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the furnace room
were were doing what they do in old age. After the electrician had
installed AC-connected smoke detectors, I saw that the light was
partially on even when switch off. So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your advice
beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to do.

How can it be partially on when the switch is off? How can
disconnecting the fixture be more effective in turning it off than
just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. Certainly the new AC smoke detector
doesn't have a magnetic field strong enough to make this happen.

Advice?
Sounds like whoever installed the smoke detector may have connected it
to the switch wires for the light.

Jimmie
Thank you, and Keith, Dufas, and Terry. You all agree on the problem.
That' pretty good. I"m going over there on Sunday, and for once I'll
know something before I get to a project. I'm curious to see what can
be seen, and they'll give me lunch. I may just call him and tell him
what you said, to save myself time, but I really do what to see what
the ee-leck-trishon did, if I can. .
Well, my friend forgot he had to go to a concert! so I only spent
about 5 minutes there. The electrician came highly recommended and my
friend called him today and the elec. said he hadn't done anything
wrong like that.

There seems to be no particular reason to think the wires to the light
were fiddled with because it looks like all the wires are right there.
The hot is as accessible as the neutral.

It was a round junction box, packed with 5 pieces of Romex**. On the
ceiling, and I only had a few minutes so I didnt' tug them apart, or
measure anything. Will go back with more tools and more time and a
radio to keep me company later this week.

**Power in, ceiling fluorescent out, switch for fluorescent out,
closet ceiling light out, and new wire to CO alarm and Smoke Alarm
out,
I would see if the ground wire of the romex cable going out to the
switch got disconnected from ground.

With the ground wire ungrounded, or with 2-wire romex (older
installations), there is enough capacitance between the hot and neutral
to allow easily tens of microamperes of current to flow through.

120V fluorescent fixtures with bulbs up to 22 watts and series inductor
ballasts sometimes continue to glow very dimly from this after being
switched off. At least usually, only one bulb on the same switch glows
from this low current. If more than one bulb is glowing, chances are the
cause is something else, such as nearby high voltage AC or high voltage
pulsating DC or a fairly powerful radio radiation source.

Although dim glow is often hard on the filaments, this very low amount
of current (flowing through a switch cable) appears to me to be fairly
harmless. However, I cannot guarantee that this will not shorten the life
of the bulbs. Meanwhile, if the switch cable's ground wire is not
connected to ground, then get that fixed. The ground wire is there for
safety purposes in case of the unlikely event that the hot wire contacts
the switch box.

I forgot to ask if there was a lighted switch hooked to the fixture.
Folks have had problems with certain equipment when it was hooked to
a lighted switch.

No lighted switch. Just a regular toggle.

When it wouldnt' stop glowing he disconnected the fixture and it
appeared that there were three wires, two wires and a ground, but I
didn't measure any voltages. So I can't tell you more about it, and I
don't feel like going alone after all so I won't have more to report
until after Friday or maybe evne Sunday. I should probably start a
new thread then, because that will be 600 or 800 posts from nowr.

Thanks again, to all.


Back in the late 1980's I worked at The Kwajalein Missile Range
for a contractor who was building, among other things, the new
mission control center for SDI. We had a number of native people,
The Marshallese working for us. A smattering of the 2'x4' lay in
fluorescent light fixtures had battery backup built in. One of
the fixtures was disconnected, leaning against a wall and was
lit up with the MC cable dangling loose behind it. A group of
our Marshallese help were gathered around the light pointing and
excitedly jabbering in their native language while one of them
picked up the disconnected power cable, looked behind the fixture
and scratched his head in complete bewilderment. It was hysterically
funny.

TDD

On Apr 28, 12:22*am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-
wrote:
mm wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 20:42:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , mm wrote:
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 01:56:57 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:03:45 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

On Apr 23, 10:07 am, mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the furnace room
were were doing what they do in old age. *After the electrician had
installed AC-connected smoke detectors, I saw that the light was
partially on even when switch off. *So I disconnected the fixture.

And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or install a new one.

For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your advice
beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to do.

How can it be partially on when the switch is off? * How can
disconnecting the fixture be more effective in turning it off than
just flipping the switch?

It didn't used to be like this. * Certainly the new AC smoke detector
doesn't have a magnetic field strong enough to make this happen.

Advice?
Sounds like whoever installed the smoke detector may have connected it
to the switch wires for the light.

Jimmie
Thank you, and Keith, Dufas, and Terry. *You all agree on the problem.
That' pretty good. I"m going over there on Sunday, and for once I'll
know something before I get to a project. I'm curious to see what can
be seen, and they'll give me lunch. * I may just call him and tell him
what you said, to save myself time, but I really do what to see what
the ee-leck-trishon did, if I can. .
Well, my friend forgot he had to go to a concert! so I only spent
about 5 minutes there. *The electrician came highly recommended and my
friend called him today and the elec. said he hadn't done anything
wrong like that.

There seems to be no particular reason to think the wires to the light
were fiddled with because it looks like all the wires are right there.
The hot is as accessible as the neutral.

It was a round junction box, packed with 5 pieces of Romex**. *On the
ceiling, and I only had a few minutes so I didnt' tug them apart, or
measure anything. *Will go back with more tools and more time and a
radio to keep me company later this week.

**Power in, ceiling fluorescent out, switch for fluorescent out,
closet ceiling light out, and new wire to CO alarm and Smoke Alarm
out,
* I would see if the ground wire of the romex cable going out to the
switch got disconnected from ground.

* With the ground wire ungrounded, or with 2-wire romex (older
installations), there is enough capacitance between the hot and neutral
to allow easily tens of microamperes of current to flow through. *

* 120V fluorescent fixtures with bulbs up to 22 watts and series inductor
ballasts sometimes continue to glow very dimly from this after being
switched off. *At least usually, only one bulb on the same switch glows
from this low current. *If more than one bulb is glowing, chances are the
cause is something else, such as nearby high voltage AC or high voltage
pulsating DC or a fairly powerful radio radiation source.

* Although dim glow is often hard on the filaments, this very low amount
of current (flowing through a switch cable) appears to me to be fairly
harmless. *However, I cannot guarantee that this will not shorten the life
of the bulbs. *Meanwhile, if the switch cable's ground wire is not
connected to ground, then get that fixed. *The ground wire is there for
safety purposes in case of the unlikely event that the hot wire contacts
the switch box.

I forgot to ask if there was a lighted switch hooked to the fixture.
Folks have had problems with certain equipment when it was hooked to
a lighted switch.

No lighted switch. *Just a regular toggle. *

When it wouldnt' stop glowing he disconnected the fixture and it
appeared that there were three wires, two wires and a ground, but I
didn't measure any voltages. *So I can't tell you more about it, and I
don't feel like going alone after all so I won't have more to report
until after Friday or maybe evne Sunday. *I should probably start a
new thread then, because that will be 600 or 800 posts from nowr.

Thanks again, to all.

Back in the late 1980's I worked at The Kwajalein Missile Range
for a contractor who was building, among other things, the new
mission control center for SDI. We had a number of native people,
The Marshallese working for us. A smattering of the 2'x4' lay in
fluorescent light fixtures had battery backup built in. One of
the fixtures was disconnected, leaning against a wall and was
lit up with the MC cable dangling loose behind it. A group of
our Marshallese help were gathered around the light pointing and
excitedly jabbering in their native language while one of them
picked up the disconnected power cable, looked behind the fixture
and scratched his head in complete bewilderment. It was hysterically
funny.

TDD

A Navy friend said that when they saw a worker carrying an arm load of
8 foot fluorescent tubes across the tarmac they momentarily aimed the
RADAR at him...when they all lit-up...I'm sure you can guess where the
went...straight up!
bob_v

Bob Villa wrote:
On Apr 28, 12:22 am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-
wrote:
mm wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 20:42:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , mm wrote:
On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 01:56:57 -0400, mm
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:03:45 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:
On Apr 23, 10:07 am, mm wrote:
A friend tells me that, The two fluorescent bulbs in the furnace room
were were doing what they do in old age. After the electrician had
installed AC-connected smoke detectors, I saw that the light was
partially on even when switch off. So I disconnected the fixture.
And he wants to either fix it by replacing parts or install a new one.
For once I know the project beforehand and can ask your advice
beforehand, since I certainly don't know what to do.
How can it be partially on when the switch is off? How can
disconnecting the fixture be more effective in turning it off than
just flipping the switch?
It didn't used to be like this. Certainly the new AC smoke detector
doesn't have a magnetic field strong enough to make this happen.
Advice?
Sounds like whoever installed the smoke detector may have connected it
to the switch wires for the light.
Jimmie
Thank you, and Keith, Dufas, and Terry. You all agree on the problem.
That' pretty good. I"m going over there on Sunday, and for once I'll
know something before I get to a project. I'm curious to see what can
be seen, and they'll give me lunch. I may just call him and tell him
what you said, to save myself time, but I really do what to see what
the ee-leck-trishon did, if I can. .
Well, my friend forgot he had to go to a concert! so I only spent
about 5 minutes there. The electrician came highly recommended and my
friend called him today and the elec. said he hadn't done anything
wrong like that.
There seems to be no particular reason to think the wires to the light
were fiddled with because it looks like all the wires are right there.
The hot is as accessible as the neutral.
It was a round junction box, packed with 5 pieces of Romex**. On the
ceiling, and I only had a few minutes so I didnt' tug them apart, or
measure anything. Will go back with more tools and more time and a
radio to keep me company later this week.
**Power in, ceiling fluorescent out, switch for fluorescent out,
closet ceiling light out, and new wire to CO alarm and Smoke Alarm
out,
I would see if the ground wire of the romex cable going out to the
switch got disconnected from ground.
With the ground wire ungrounded, or with 2-wire romex (older
installations), there is enough capacitance between the hot and neutral
to allow easily tens of microamperes of current to flow through.
120V fluorescent fixtures with bulbs up to 22 watts and series inductor
ballasts sometimes continue to glow very dimly from this after being
switched off. At least usually, only one bulb on the same switch glows
from this low current. If more than one bulb is glowing, chances are the
cause is something else, such as nearby high voltage AC or high voltage
pulsating DC or a fairly powerful radio radiation source.
Although dim glow is often hard on the filaments, this very low amount
of current (flowing through a switch cable) appears to me to be fairly
harmless. However, I cannot guarantee that this will not shorten the life
of the bulbs. Meanwhile, if the switch cable's ground wire is not
connected to ground, then get that fixed. The ground wire is there for
safety purposes in case of the unlikely event that the hot wire contacts
the switch box.
I forgot to ask if there was a lighted switch hooked to the fixture.
Folks have had problems with certain equipment when it was hooked to
a lighted switch.
No lighted switch. Just a regular toggle.
When it wouldnt' stop glowing he disconnected the fixture and it
appeared that there were three wires, two wires and a ground, but I
didn't measure any voltages. So I can't tell you more about it, and I
don't feel like going alone after all so I won't have more to report
until after Friday or maybe evne Sunday. I should probably start a
new thread then, because that will be 600 or 800 posts from nowr.
Thanks again, to all.
Back in the late 1980's I worked at The Kwajalein Missile Range
for a contractor who was building, among other things, the new
mission control center for SDI. We had a number of native people,
The Marshallese working for us. A smattering of the 2'x4' lay in
fluorescent light fixtures had battery backup built in. One of
the fixtures was disconnected, leaning against a wall and was
lit up with the MC cable dangling loose behind it. A group of
our Marshallese help were gathered around the light pointing and
excitedly jabbering in their native language while one of them
picked up the disconnected power cable, looked behind the fixture
and scratched his head in complete bewilderment. It was hysterically
funny.

TDD

A Navy friend said that when they saw a worker carrying an arm load of
8 foot fluorescent tubes across the tarmac they momentarily aimed the
RADAR at him...when they all lit-up...I'm sure you can guess where the
went...straight up!
bob_v

If it was at dusk or on a dark day, it would have been quite effective.

TDD