Have a Trane central system installed in 88. Model T V030 A140A0

When I last ran the A/C a few months ago it seemed to be working fine.
Usually when it fires up, you can hear a shursssshhhhh-shurrssssh
which I gather is freon starting to move within the system and you can
feel the bubbles in a tube at the front of the air handler housing.

Now when I fire it up I get no freon sound and no cool air. The air
handler is funning and the fan on the compressor unit outside is
running. I depressed the Hi Press fitting a really quick hit just to
verify there's pressure and there is.

It actually exhibited this behavior years ago when it was newer - a
few restarts seemed to get it kicked into gear, but so far no luck.

I'm not versed in A/C but am otherwise mechanically inclined, no
problem whatsoever digging into things with proper direction. Any
primary suspects I should look at before calling someone in?

Thanks for all input.

"brassplyer" wrote in message
...
Have a Trane central system installed in 88. Model T V030 A140A0

When I last ran the A/C a few months ago it seemed to be working fine.
Usually when it fires up, you can hear a shursssshhhhh-shurrssssh
which I gather is freon starting to move within the system and you can
feel the bubbles in a tube at the front of the air handler housing.

Now when I fire it up I get no freon sound and no cool air. The air
handler is funning and the fan on the compressor unit outside is
running. I depressed the Hi Press fitting a really quick hit just to
verify there's pressure and there is.

It actually exhibited this behavior years ago when it was newer - a
few restarts seemed to get it kicked into gear, but so far no luck.

I'm not versed in A/C but am otherwise mechanically inclined, no
problem whatsoever digging into things with proper direction. Any
primary suspects I should look at before calling someone in?

Thanks for all input.


If there is any Freon (refregerant gas) in the system, it will have
pressure. YOu need to verify the compressor in outside unit is running.
There is probably a relay that will pull in to power the motor when it
starts up. A clamp on amp meter would tell if the compressor motor is
drawing current.

In simple terms the compressor is going to compress the gas, it goes to the
outside coils and is condensed into a liquid as it gives up the heat to the
outside air. It then goes inside and absorbs heat from the inside coils,
boils in doing so and back to the compressor.

"brassplyer" wrote in message
...
Have a Trane central system installed in 88. Model T V030 A140A0

When I last ran the A/C a few months ago it seemed to be working fine.
Usually when it fires up, you can hear a shursssshhhhh-shurrssssh
which I gather is freon starting to move within the system and you can
feel the bubbles in a tube at the front of the air handler housing.

Now when I fire it up I get no freon sound and no cool air. The air
handler is funning and the fan on the compressor unit outside is
running. I depressed the Hi Press fitting a really quick hit just to
verify there's pressure and there is.

It actually exhibited this behavior years ago when it was newer - a
few restarts seemed to get it kicked into gear, but so far no luck.

I'm not versed in A/C but am otherwise mechanically inclined, no
problem whatsoever digging into things with proper direction. Any
primary suspects I should look at before calling someone in?

Thanks for all input.



Sounds a little low. Better call the tech to come top it off.

"brassplyer" wrote in message
...
Have a Trane central system installed in 88. Model T V030 A140A0

When I last ran the A/C a few months ago it seemed to be working fine.
Usually when it fires up, you can hear a shursssshhhhh-shurrssssh
which I gather is freon starting to move within the system and you can
feel the bubbles in a tube at the front of the air handler housing.

Now when I fire it up I get no freon sound and no cool air. The air
handler is funning and the fan on the compressor unit outside is
running. I depressed the Hi Press fitting a really quick hit just to
verify there's pressure and there is.

It actually exhibited this behavior years ago when it was newer - a
few restarts seemed to get it kicked into gear, but so far no luck.

I'm not versed in A/C but am otherwise mechanically inclined, no
problem whatsoever digging into things with proper direction. Any
primary suspects I should look at before calling someone in?

Thanks for all input.

Its 22 years old... they don't last forever....especially when they are not
serviced regularly.

On Apr 5, 8:34*pm, "Steve" wrote:

Its 22 years old... they don't last forever....especially when they are not
serviced regularly.



It's not clear what "servicing" it needed. Turned it on, it worked.

Your local HVAC people can tell you.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"brassplyer" wrote in message
...
On Apr 5, 8:34 pm, "Steve" wrote:

Its 22 years old... they don't last forever....especially
when they are not
serviced regularly.



It's not clear what "servicing" it needed. Turned it on, it
worked.

"brassplyer" wrote in message
...
On Apr 5, 8:34 pm, "Steve" wrote:

Its 22 years old... they don't last forever....especially when they are
not
serviced regularly.



It's not clear what "servicing" it needed. Turned it on, it worked.

You turn on your car and it works... do you ever have it serviced?? after
all your probably not driving it but maybe an hour a day, and you buy a new
one avery couple of years..... Your heating and cooling system is the single
most expensive appliance in your home, and it runs 24/7....and you never
have it serviced??

Here's a BOHICA moment for you.... the cost of the typical system
replacement these days (not including any ductwork) is going to cost
anywhere from $5,000 - $15,000. I hope you got some money put back....your
gonna need it.

On Apr 5, 8:43*pm, brassplyer wrote:
On Apr 5, 8:34*pm, "Steve" wrote:

Its 22 years old... they don't last forever....especially when they are not
serviced regularly.

It's not clear what "servicing" it needed. Turned it on, it worked.

The outside unit could have just the "fan" running, but do you hear
the compressor? The contactor might be corroded/intermittent. Give it
a whack and see if the compressor kicks on. Could also be a bad
capacitor.

On Apr 5, 9:07*pm, "Steve" wrote:

You turn on your car and it works... do you ever have it serviced??


I do all my own auto servicing. There are specific pieces that are
subject to wear, corrosion, sacrificial fluids that need replacing.

It's my understanding that the "lubrication" in an A/C compressor is
contained within the freon, that if it has freon it's got lubrication.
Does one "change the oil" in an A/C system?


Your heating and cooling system is the single
most expensive appliance in your home, and it runs 24/7


Actually, mine only gets run sporadically. I don't run it day in, day
out. Only when it get hot or cold enough and only when I'm actually
home. There are probably people who run theirs more in a year than I
do in 5.


.and you never
have it serviced??


Can you specify what servicing could be done to it to make it last
longer? Not being facetious, just seems that an auto and an A/C system
are different animals. I don't do "maintenance" on my computer hard
drives either, other than occasional defragging and antivirus scan.
But there's no actual mechanical "maintenance" to be done.

The word I keep hearing about many A/C companies who solicit for
"maintenance" is that many are shady, similar to companies who tell
you you need to put "treatment" in your septic tank, etc.

"brassplyer" wrote in message
...
On Apr 5, 9:07 pm, "Steve" wrote:

You turn on your car and it works... do you ever have it serviced??


I do all my own auto servicing. There are specific pieces that are
subject to wear, corrosion, sacrificial fluids that need replacing.

It's my understanding that the "lubrication" in an A/C compressor is
contained within the freon, that if it has freon it's got lubrication.
Does one "change the oil" in an A/C system?


Your heating and cooling system is the single
most expensive appliance in your home, and it runs 24/7


Actually, mine only gets run sporadically. I don't run it day in, day
out. Only when it get hot or cold enough and only when I'm actually
home. There are probably people who run theirs more in a year than I
do in 5.


.and you never
have it serviced??


Can you specify what servicing could be done to it to make it last
longer? Not being facetious, just seems that an auto and an A/C system
are different animals. I don't do "maintenance" on my computer hard
drives either, other than occasional defragging and antivirus scan.
But there's no actual mechanical "maintenance" to be done.

The word I keep hearing about many A/C companies who solicit for
"maintenance" is that many are shady, similar to companies who tell
you you need to put "treatment" in your septic tank, etc.


Your car and you A/C both have moving parts, they both have filters, they
both have electrical systems, they both have blowers and fans. Your A/C also
has to have the refrigerant charge balance checked once everything is clean
and verified to operate properly so that it is operating as it was designed
to, as well as making sure that it has no refrigerant leaks.

BTW.. the refrigerant in your system is being "phased out". In the next
year, the price of that refrigerant is going to be 8 - 10 times higher
because of the most recent 75% reduction in production and importing of R22

As far as "shady" companies, do a little homework.... talk to friends,
family, inlaws, outlaws, folks you go to church with, etc..... ask them who
they use or don't use, and why.

On Apr 5, 10:22*pm, The King wrote:

The only servicing a residential a/c ever needs is a clean filter a
few times a year and hose out the condenser after the cotton woods
quit making cotton. *That's been my sure fire winner for over 20yrs
with mine. *


Right, exactly what I've been doing. And a couple of times I've had to
blow out the drainage line when it got clogged with gunk.



Or you can pay some Stormy Mormmy type simpleton to come
out and hook up their nasty gauge set every year, contaminate the
system and let a little gas out when they disconnect and charge you
out the ass for "the service".


Which is exactly what I've heard and why I've avoided having anyone
"service" it. I've gone under the assumption that since once fired up
it cooled the house off quickly and could easily get it colder than I
needed, things were working as they should.

brassplyer wrote:
Have a Trane central system installed in 88. Model T V030 A140A0

When I last ran the A/C a few months ago it seemed to be working fine.
Usually when it fires up, you can hear a shursssshhhhh-shurrssssh
which I gather is freon starting to move within the system and you can
feel the bubbles in a tube at the front of the air handler housing.

Now when I fire it up I get no freon sound and no cool air. The air
handler is funning and the fan on the compressor unit outside is
running. I depressed the Hi Press fitting a really quick hit just to
verify there's pressure and there is.

It actually exhibited this behavior years ago when it was newer - a
few restarts seemed to get it kicked into gear, but so far no luck.

I'm not versed in A/C but am otherwise mechanically inclined, no
problem whatsoever digging into things with proper direction. Any
primary suspects I should look at before calling someone in?

Thanks for all input.



Twice today I had to replace the combination fan/compressor capacitor
on two different AC units. One of them was a Trane, the other a
Goodman. Both capacitors had swelled so the top with the terminals
had gone from flat to dome shape, this broke the connections inside
the capacitor which kept the compressor from running. If you see a
cylindrical or oval shaped capacitor with three connecting points
for one or more 1/4" Faston or flat push on connectors, that could
be your problem. Often there are separate capacitors but usually
the manufacturer installs a combination capacitor. The red wire is
usually the common going to the "C" terminal sometimes along with a
purple wire, a brown to the "fan" terminal and an orange, yellow or
blue to the terminal "herm" which is hermetic for the hermetically
sealed compressor's "S" terminal. If it is the capacitor, I would
recommend installing a 440vac rated capacitor if it already doesn't
have one. Many are rated a 370vac and you can go up in voltage
rating but it's not a good idea to go down in voltage rating. Check
out this link with pictures:

http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/A...ide/index.html

http://tinyurl.com/66jdnv

TDD

On Apr 5, 10:37*pm, brassplyer wrote:
On Apr 5, 10:22*pm, The King wrote:

The only servicing a residential a/c ever needs is a clean filter a
few times a year and hose out the condenser after the cotton woods
quit making cotton. *That's been my sure fire winner for over 20yrs
with mine. *

Right, exactly what I've been doing. And a couple of times I've had to
blow out the drainage line when it got clogged with gunk.

Or you can pay some Stormy Mormmy type simpleton to come
out and hook up their nasty gauge set every year, contaminate the
system and let a little gas out when they disconnect and charge you
out the ass for "the service".

Which is exactly what I've heard and why I've avoided having anyone
"service" it. I've gone under the assumption that since once fired up
it cooled the house off quickly and could easily get it colder than I
needed, *things were working as they should.


Right, except if someone stole the refrigerant out of your outside
heat pump unit... Or something finally corroded through after
22 years of being outside in the elements... Or maybe you don't
cover your outside heat pump unit during the winter and ice
built up inside of it and snapped something letting the refrigerant
gas escape...

In every trade there are good companies and bad... Don't lump them
all in with the bad... It is obvious that you don't have a clue what
to
look for when you "hose down your condenser" and wouldn't know
how to find a refrigerant leak if that is what your problem is...

Stop being cheap and hire someone to come out and give your
AC unit an look to see what is wrong with it...

~ Evan

On Apr 6, 2:51*am, Evan wrote:
On Apr 5, 10:37*pm, brassplyer wrote:





On Apr 5, 10:22*pm, The King wrote:

The only servicing a residential a/c ever needs is a clean filter a
few times a year and hose out the condenser after the cotton woods
quit making cotton. *That's been my sure fire winner for over 20yrs
with mine. *

Right, exactly what I've been doing. And a couple of times I've had to
blow out the drainage line when it got clogged with gunk.

Or you can pay some Stormy Mormmy type simpleton to come
out and hook up their nasty gauge set every year, contaminate the
system and let a little gas out when they disconnect and charge you
out the ass for "the service".

Which is exactly what I've heard and why I've avoided having anyone
"service" it. I've gone under the assumption that since once fired up
it cooled the house off quickly and could easily get it colder than I
needed, *things were working as they should.

Right, except if someone stole the refrigerant out of your outside
heat pump unit... *Or something finally corroded through after
22 years of being outside in the elements... *Or maybe you don't
cover your outside heat pump unit during the winter and ice
built up inside of it and snapped something letting the refrigerant
gas escape...

In every trade there are good companies and bad... *Don't lump them
all in with the bad... *It is obvious that you don't have a clue what
to
look for when you "hose down your condenser" and wouldn't know
how to find a refrigerant leak if that is what your problem is...

Stop being cheap and hire someone to come out and give your
AC unit an look to see what is wrong with it...

~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In which case it would be "BROKEN" and need fixing. I agree with the
other posters, servicing is just a money making operation.

The OP probably needs someone to take a look at but not because it
needs servicing, because it's broken.

On Apr 6, 8:02*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Apr 6, 2:51*am, Evan wrote:





On Apr 5, 10:37*pm, brassplyer wrote:

On Apr 5, 10:22*pm, The King wrote:

The only servicing a residential a/c ever needs is a clean filter a
few times a year and hose out the condenser after the cotton woods
quit making cotton. *That's been my sure fire winner for over 20yrs
with mine. *

Right, exactly what I've been doing. And a couple of times I've had to
blow out the drainage line when it got clogged with gunk.

Or you can pay some Stormy Mormmy type simpleton to come
out and hook up their nasty gauge set every year, contaminate the
system and let a little gas out when they disconnect and charge you
out the ass for "the service".

Which is exactly what I've heard and why I've avoided having anyone
"service" it. I've gone under the assumption that since once fired up
it cooled the house off quickly and could easily get it colder than I
needed, *things were working as they should.

Right, except if someone stole the refrigerant out of your outside
heat pump unit... *Or something finally corroded through after
22 years of being outside in the elements... *Or maybe you don't
cover your outside heat pump unit during the winter and ice
built up inside of it and snapped something letting the refrigerant
gas escape...

In every trade there are good companies and bad... *Don't lump them
all in with the bad... *It is obvious that you don't have a clue what
to
look for when you "hose down your condenser" and wouldn't know
how to find a refrigerant leak if that is what your problem is...

Stop being cheap and hire someone to come out and give your
AC unit an look to see what is wrong with it...

~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In which case it would be "BROKEN" and need fixing. *I agree with the
other posters, servicing is just a money making operation.

The OP probably needs someone to take a look at but not because it
needs servicing, because it's broken.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And if AC units need professional servicing, including checking the
refrigerant level, why is it that refrigerators, which are very
similar refrigerant systems, don't? All you need to do is change
the filters and clean out any leaves from the compressor unit. And if
servicing is so critical, how is it that the OPs lasted 22 years,
which is the full life, without it? You can't compare this to car
maintenance. If you didn't change or check the oil in your car, it
surely wouldn't last 22 years.

On Apr 6, 12:55*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
brassplyer wrote:
Have a Trane central system installed in 88. Model T V030 A140A0

When I last ran the A/C a few months ago it seemed to be working fine.
Usually when it fires up, you can hear a shursssshhhhh-shurrssssh
which I gather is freon starting to move within the system and you can
feel the bubbles in a tube at the front of the air handler housing.

Now when I fire it up I get no freon sound and no cool air. The air
handler is funning and the fan on the compressor unit outside is
running. I depressed the Hi Press fitting a really quick hit just to
verify there's pressure and there is.

It actually exhibited this behavior years ago when it was newer - a
few restarts seemed to get it kicked into gear, but so far no luck.

I'm not versed in A/C but am otherwise mechanically inclined, no
problem whatsoever digging into things with proper direction. Any
primary suspects I should look at before calling someone in?

Thanks for all input.

Twice today I had to replace the combination fan/compressor capacitor
on two different AC units. One of them was a Trane, the other a
Goodman. Both capacitors had swelled so the top with the terminals
had gone from flat to dome shape, this broke the connections inside
the capacitor which kept the compressor from running. If you see a
cylindrical or oval shaped capacitor with three connecting points
for one or more 1/4" Faston or flat push on connectors, that could
be your problem. Often there are separate capacitors but usually
the manufacturer installs a combination capacitor. The red wire is
usually the common going to the "C" terminal sometimes along with a
purple wire, a brown to the "fan" terminal and an orange, yellow or
blue to the terminal "herm" which is hermetic for the hermetically
sealed compressor's "S" terminal. If it is the capacitor, I would
recommend installing a 440vac rated capacitor if it already doesn't
have one. Many are rated a 370vac and you can go up in voltage
rating but it's not a good idea to go down in voltage rating. Check
out this link with pictures:

http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/A...-Run-Capacitor...

http://tinyurl.com/66jdnv

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


With a 22 year old unit, and depending on how often it's used, the
best thing may be to take advantage of all the fed tax credits and
rebates availabe and get a new one. A new one is going to be
significantly more efficient and use less electricity.

After reading your messages, and your replies to the
tradesmen who have commented. It's obvious to me that you're
a hard core do it yourselfer. And that if a tradesman writes
"Well, your service guy needs to.... A, B, C..... that you
will take the covers off, and do your own version of what
the service guys do. Which may help, or it might not.

I've been servicing refrigeration and AC systems long enough
to know that there are a lot of things that are not obvious
to the untrained eye. I'm in the rapid learning part of my
career, it seems that every time I service a system, I learn
somthing new. I've only been in the trade for 15 years. So,
I encourage you to ask your friends and neighbors, and see
who they reccomend.

It sounds like you are going to keep coasting down the road
of "well, it's working....". Which might be successful for
you, or it may lead to an early failure. I guess we'll never
know.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"brassplyer"
wrote in message
...

Which is exactly what I've heard and why I've avoided having
anyone
"service" it. I've gone under the assumption that since once
fired up
it cooled the house off quickly and could easily get it
colder than I
needed, things were working as they should.

On Apr 6, 8:37*am, wrote:
On Apr 6, 12:55*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:





brassplyer wrote:
Have a Trane central system installed in 88. Model T V030 A140A0

When I last ran the A/C a few months ago it seemed to be working fine..
Usually when it fires up, you can hear a shursssshhhhh-shurrssssh
which I gather is freon starting to move within the system and you can
feel the bubbles in a tube at the front of the air handler housing.

Now when I fire it up I get no freon sound and no cool air. The air
handler is funning and the fan on the compressor unit outside is
running. I depressed the Hi Press fitting a really quick hit just to
verify there's pressure and there is.

It actually exhibited this behavior years ago when it was newer - a
few restarts seemed to get it kicked into gear, but so far no luck.

I'm not versed in A/C but am otherwise mechanically inclined, no
problem whatsoever digging into things with proper direction. Any
primary suspects I should look at before calling someone in?

Thanks for all input.

Twice today I had to replace the combination fan/compressor capacitor
on two different AC units. One of them was a Trane, the other a
Goodman. Both capacitors had swelled so the top with the terminals
had gone from flat to dome shape, this broke the connections inside
the capacitor which kept the compressor from running. If you see a
cylindrical or oval shaped capacitor with three connecting points
for one or more 1/4" Faston or flat push on connectors, that could
be your problem. Often there are separate capacitors but usually
the manufacturer installs a combination capacitor. The red wire is
usually the common going to the "C" terminal sometimes along with a
purple wire, a brown to the "fan" terminal and an orange, yellow or
blue to the terminal "herm" which is hermetic for the hermetically
sealed compressor's "S" terminal. If it is the capacitor, I would
recommend installing a 440vac rated capacitor if it already doesn't
have one. Many are rated a 370vac and you can go up in voltage
rating but it's not a good idea to go down in voltage rating. Check
out this link with pictures:

http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/A...-Run-Capacitor...

http://tinyurl.com/66jdnv

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

With a 22 year old unit, and depending on how often it's used, the
best thing may be to take advantage of all the fed tax credits and
rebates availabe and get a new one. * A new one is going to be
significantly more efficient and use less electricity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Difficult to make that call. If it is only used occasionally and it's
just got a bad cap? Replace/repair decisions have a lot of factors.
If it needs a compressor then yea, replace.

wrote:
On Apr 6, 12:55 am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
brassplyer wrote:
Have a Trane central system installed in 88. Model T V030 A140A0
When I last ran the A/C a few months ago it seemed to be working fine.
Usually when it fires up, you can hear a shursssshhhhh-shurrssssh
which I gather is freon starting to move within the system and you can
feel the bubbles in a tube at the front of the air handler housing.
Now when I fire it up I get no freon sound and no cool air. The air
handler is funning and the fan on the compressor unit outside is
running. I depressed the Hi Press fitting a really quick hit just to
verify there's pressure and there is.
It actually exhibited this behavior years ago when it was newer - a
few restarts seemed to get it kicked into gear, but so far no luck.
I'm not versed in A/C but am otherwise mechanically inclined, no
problem whatsoever digging into things with proper direction. Any
primary suspects I should look at before calling someone in?
Thanks for all input.
Twice today I had to replace the combination fan/compressor capacitor
on two different AC units. One of them was a Trane, the other a
Goodman. Both capacitors had swelled so the top with the terminals
had gone from flat to dome shape, this broke the connections inside
the capacitor which kept the compressor from running. If you see a
cylindrical or oval shaped capacitor with three connecting points
for one or more 1/4" Faston or flat push on connectors, that could
be your problem. Often there are separate capacitors but usually
the manufacturer installs a combination capacitor. The red wire is
usually the common going to the "C" terminal sometimes along with a
purple wire, a brown to the "fan" terminal and an orange, yellow or
blue to the terminal "herm" which is hermetic for the hermetically
sealed compressor's "S" terminal. If it is the capacitor, I would
recommend installing a 440vac rated capacitor if it already doesn't
have one. Many are rated a 370vac and you can go up in voltage
rating but it's not a good idea to go down in voltage rating. Check
out this link with pictures:

http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/A...-Run-Capacitor...

http://tinyurl.com/66jdnv

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


With a 22 year old unit, and depending on how often it's used, the
best thing may be to take advantage of all the fed tax credits and
rebates availabe and get a new one. A new one is going to be
significantly more efficient and use less electricity.

Why tell me? The folks I do work for don't have the money to replace
a system. BeeHO hasn't stimulated theirs or my bank account so folks
call on me to repair what they have. It's called survival and making
do with what you got. I had an old fellow call me one day to look at
a Carrier he had bought back in the early 70's. It was the best and most
expensive unit Carrier made for homes at that time. It has stainless
steel hardware, factory sight glass, high and low pressure controls,
anti short cycle timer and a temperature controlled two speed condenser
fan. The condenser fan motor burned out and an HVAC company told him
he needed a new system. I took a look at his old Rolls Royce of an AC
and told him "Don't you dare get rid of this system!". I replaced the
two speed condenser fan motor and the system goes into low speed mode
at night and thanks to an insulating blanket over the compressor, it
barely makes a sound in quiet mode. His neighbors all around him have
newer AC units that sound like airplanes taking off. The repair bill
was quite a bit less than the $8,000 the other guys wanted.

TDD

And, that's the state of the economy. We're headed into a
depression to make 1929 look like party week at the frat
house. I get plenty of chances to rescue older equipment. I
regularly work on R-12 equipment that dates back to before
the freon boondoggle.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote
in message ...


Why tell me? The folks I do work for don't have the money to
replace
a system. BeeHO hasn't stimulated theirs or my bank account
so folks
call on me to repair what they have. It's called survival
and making
do with what you got. I had an old fellow call me one day to
look at
a Carrier he had bought back in the early 70's. It was the
best and most
expensive unit Carrier made for homes at that time. It has
stainless
steel hardware, factory sight glass, high and low pressure
controls,
anti short cycle timer and a temperature controlled two
speed condenser
fan. The condenser fan motor burned out and an HVAC company
told him
he needed a new system. I took a look at his old Rolls Royce
of an AC
and told him "Don't you dare get rid of this system!". I
replaced the
two speed condenser fan motor and the system goes into low
speed mode
at night and thanks to an insulating blanket over the
compressor, it
barely makes a sound in quiet mode. His neighbors all around
him have
newer AC units that sound like airplanes taking off. The
repair bill
was quite a bit less than the $8,000 the other guys wanted.

TDD

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Apr 6, 12:55 am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
brassplyer wrote:
Have a Trane central system installed in 88. Model T V030 A140A0
When I last ran the A/C a few months ago it seemed to be working fine.
Usually when it fires up, you can hear a shursssshhhhh-shurrssssh
which I gather is freon starting to move within the system and you can
feel the bubbles in a tube at the front of the air handler housing.
Now when I fire it up I get no freon sound and no cool air. The air
handler is funning and the fan on the compressor unit outside is
running. I depressed the Hi Press fitting a really quick hit just to
verify there's pressure and there is.
It actually exhibited this behavior years ago when it was newer - a
few restarts seemed to get it kicked into gear, but so far no luck.
I'm not versed in A/C but am otherwise mechanically inclined, no
problem whatsoever digging into things with proper direction. Any
primary suspects I should look at before calling someone in?
Thanks for all input.
Twice today I had to replace the combination fan/compressor capacitor
on two different AC units. One of them was a Trane, the other a
Goodman. Both capacitors had swelled so the top with the terminals
had gone from flat to dome shape, this broke the connections inside
the capacitor which kept the compressor from running. If you see a
cylindrical or oval shaped capacitor with three connecting points
for one or more 1/4" Faston or flat push on connectors, that could
be your problem. Often there are separate capacitors but usually
the manufacturer installs a combination capacitor. The red wire is
usually the common going to the "C" terminal sometimes along with a
purple wire, a brown to the "fan" terminal and an orange, yellow or
blue to the terminal "herm" which is hermetic for the hermetically
sealed compressor's "S" terminal. If it is the capacitor, I would
recommend installing a 440vac rated capacitor if it already doesn't
have one. Many are rated a 370vac and you can go up in voltage
rating but it's not a good idea to go down in voltage rating. Check
out this link with pictures:

http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/A...-Run-Capacitor...

http://tinyurl.com/66jdnv

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


With a 22 year old unit, and depending on how often it's used, the
best thing may be to take advantage of all the fed tax credits and
rebates availabe and get a new one. A new one is going to be
significantly more efficient and use less electricity.

Why tell me? The folks I do work for don't have the money to replace
a system. BeeHO hasn't stimulated theirs or my bank account so folks
call on me to repair what they have. It's called survival and making
do with what you got. I had an old fellow call me one day to look at
a Carrier he had bought back in the early 70's. It was the best and most
expensive unit Carrier made for homes at that time. It has stainless
steel hardware, factory sight glass, high and low pressure controls,
anti short cycle timer and a temperature controlled two speed condenser
fan. The condenser fan motor burned out and an HVAC company told him
he needed a new system. I took a look at his old Rolls Royce of an AC
and told him "Don't you dare get rid of this system!". I replaced the
two speed condenser fan motor and the system goes into low speed mode
at night and thanks to an insulating blanket over the compressor, it
barely makes a sound in quiet mode. His neighbors all around him have
newer AC units that sound like airplanes taking off. The repair bill
was quite a bit less than the $8,000 the other guys wanted.

TDD


We can't help it if you don't charge enough.

Oscar_Lives wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Apr 6, 12:55 am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
brassplyer wrote:
Have a Trane central system installed in 88. Model T V030 A140A0
When I last ran the A/C a few months ago it seemed to be working fine.
Usually when it fires up, you can hear a shursssshhhhh-shurrssssh
which I gather is freon starting to move within the system and you can
feel the bubbles in a tube at the front of the air handler housing.
Now when I fire it up I get no freon sound and no cool air. The air
handler is funning and the fan on the compressor unit outside is
running. I depressed the Hi Press fitting a really quick hit just to
verify there's pressure and there is.
It actually exhibited this behavior years ago when it was newer - a
few restarts seemed to get it kicked into gear, but so far no luck.
I'm not versed in A/C but am otherwise mechanically inclined, no
problem whatsoever digging into things with proper direction. Any
primary suspects I should look at before calling someone in?
Thanks for all input.
Twice today I had to replace the combination fan/compressor capacitor
on two different AC units. One of them was a Trane, the other a
Goodman. Both capacitors had swelled so the top with the terminals
had gone from flat to dome shape, this broke the connections inside
the capacitor which kept the compressor from running. If you see a
cylindrical or oval shaped capacitor with three connecting points
for one or more 1/4" Faston or flat push on connectors, that could
be your problem. Often there are separate capacitors but usually
the manufacturer installs a combination capacitor. The red wire is
usually the common going to the "C" terminal sometimes along with a
purple wire, a brown to the "fan" terminal and an orange, yellow or
blue to the terminal "herm" which is hermetic for the hermetically
sealed compressor's "S" terminal. If it is the capacitor, I would
recommend installing a 440vac rated capacitor if it already doesn't
have one. Many are rated a 370vac and you can go up in voltage
rating but it's not a good idea to go down in voltage rating. Check
out this link with pictures:

http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/A...-Run-Capacitor...

http://tinyurl.com/66jdnv

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

With a 22 year old unit, and depending on how often it's used, the
best thing may be to take advantage of all the fed tax credits and
rebates availabe and get a new one. A new one is going to be
significantly more efficient and use less electricity.
Why tell me? The folks I do work for don't have the money to replace
a system. BeeHO hasn't stimulated theirs or my bank account so folks
call on me to repair what they have. It's called survival and making
do with what you got. I had an old fellow call me one day to look at
a Carrier he had bought back in the early 70's. It was the best and most
expensive unit Carrier made for homes at that time. It has stainless
steel hardware, factory sight glass, high and low pressure controls,
anti short cycle timer and a temperature controlled two speed condenser
fan. The condenser fan motor burned out and an HVAC company told him
he needed a new system. I took a look at his old Rolls Royce of an AC
and told him "Don't you dare get rid of this system!". I replaced the
two speed condenser fan motor and the system goes into low speed mode
at night and thanks to an insulating blanket over the compressor, it
barely makes a sound in quiet mode. His neighbors all around him have
newer AC units that sound like airplanes taking off. The repair bill
was quite a bit less than the $8,000 the other guys wanted.

TDD


We can't help it if you don't charge enough.



I just hope I have some change left when the Commiecrats are finally
voted out of office. *snicker*

TDD

On Apr 6, 8:56*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
After reading your messages, and your replies to the
tradesmen who have commented. It's obvious to me that you're
a hard core do it yourselfer. And that if a tradesman writes
"Well, your service guy *needs to.... A, B, C..... that you
will take the covers off, and do your own version of what
the service guys do. Which may help, or it might not.


Well, I tend to do it myself within the bounds of common sense. Almost
never pay an auto mechanic, have replaced engines, trannies, etc.
myself. Installed my own water heater, repaired an entire section of
carpenter ant damaged wall, etc.

However, I'm also conscious of possible hazards of fumbling around
something I'm not familiar with or accidentally trashing a unit that
*could* have been salvaged by a reputable pro had they been given the
chance to work on it before I wreaked havoc on it.

If I can find something obvious that I can remedy it myself, I'm more
than happy to tackle it. But at this point I'm trying to become
educated as much as anything.

On Apr 6, 2:51*am, Evan wrote:

It is obvious that you don't have a clue what
to
look for when you "hose down your condenser"


My method - disconnect power from unit at the outside breaker and main
breaker. Take top grill/fan piece of condenser housing. Pull plant
crap out by hand and/or with a shop vac, hose down the coils to remove
other crap. Anything wrong with this?

Unit was working like a champ the last time I fired it up a few months
ago. Cooled off the house quickly. Sound like maintenance was
obviously called for (as of that time) to you?

brassplyer wrote:
On Apr 6, 8:56 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
After reading your messages, and your replies to the
tradesmen who have commented. It's obvious to me that you're
a hard core do it yourselfer. And that if a tradesman writes
"Well, your service guy needs to.... A, B, C..... that you
will take the covers off, and do your own version of what
the service guys do. Which may help, or it might not.


Well, I tend to do it myself within the bounds of common sense. Almost
never pay an auto mechanic, have replaced engines, trannies, etc.
myself. Installed my own water heater, repaired an entire section of
carpenter ant damaged wall, etc.

However, I'm also conscious of possible hazards of fumbling around
something I'm not familiar with or accidentally trashing a unit that
*could* have been salvaged by a reputable pro had they been given the
chance to work on it before I wreaked havoc on it.

If I can find something obvious that I can remedy it myself, I'm more
than happy to tackle it. But at this point I'm trying to become
educated as much as anything.
Hmm,
You know how to revive dead person? Your a/c system is dead or dying due
to old age. Time for new one. Economy needs you spend money.
That Freon filled old machine is power sucking low efficiency monster.
Upgrade. Even if you fix it, it won't last long. Be wise and do a right
thing. Not all HVAC techs are crooks. There are more honest good ones
than bad ones. Ask around, you'll find good honest dependable one near
you. Treat him/her well, He/She will treat you well.
You brass player? Me too low brass all my life.

On Apr 6, 8:36*am, wrote:
On Apr 6, 8:02*am, jamesgangnc wrote:



On Apr 6, 2:51*am, Evan wrote:

On Apr 5, 10:37*pm, brassplyer wrote:

On Apr 5, 10:22*pm, The King wrote:

The only servicing a residential a/c ever needs is a clean filter a
few times a year and hose out the condenser after the cotton woods
quit making cotton. *That's been my sure fire winner for over 20yrs
with mine. *

Right, exactly what I've been doing. And a couple of times I've had to
blow out the drainage line when it got clogged with gunk.

Or you can pay some Stormy Mormmy type simpleton to come
out and hook up their nasty gauge set every year, contaminate the
system and let a little gas out when they disconnect and charge you
out the ass for "the service".

Which is exactly what I've heard and why I've avoided having anyone
"service" it. I've gone under the assumption that since once fired up
it cooled the house off quickly and could easily get it colder than I
needed, *things were working as they should.

Right, except if someone stole the refrigerant out of your outside
heat pump unit... *Or something finally corroded through after
22 years of being outside in the elements... *Or maybe you don't
cover your outside heat pump unit during the winter and ice
built up inside of it and snapped something letting the refrigerant
gas escape...

In every trade there are good companies and bad... *Don't lump them
all in with the bad... *It is obvious that you don't have a clue what
to
look for when you "hose down your condenser" and wouldn't know
how to find a refrigerant leak if that is what your problem is...

Stop being cheap and hire someone to come out and give your
AC unit an look to see what is wrong with it...

~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In which case it would be "BROKEN" and need fixing. *I agree with the
other posters, servicing is just a money making operation.

The OP probably needs someone to take a look at but not because it
needs servicing, because it's broken.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And if AC units need professional servicing, including checking the
refrigerant level, why is it that refrigerators, which are very
similar refrigerant systems, don't? * *All you need to do is change
the filters and clean out any leaves from the compressor unit. *And if
servicing is so critical, how is it that the OPs lasted 22 years,
which is the full life, without it? * *You can't compare this to car
maintenance. * If you didn't change or check the oil in your car, it
surely wouldn't last 22 years.


Why ??

Because a refrigerator only keeps a small very well insulated space
cold... Your home AC unit (which is only about 3x the size if you
look at the internal components compared to a refrigerator) is working
MUCH harder to cool off an exponentially larger volume of space in
comparison to the interior volume of your refrigerator...

As to your other ponderings about why his AC unit lasted so long
without requiring repair, who knows, could be he hardly ever uses
it like the OP claimed in previous posts, could have been luck...
A car could conceivably go 22 years without an oil change if you
drove it less than 4,000 total miles during that time... I don't know
of anyone who owns a car that they "hardly ever drive" over more
than 20 years of owning it, do you ???

And no, you don't know enough about AC units if all you think
you need to do is change the filter in the duct work and clear
out the leaves from the outside heat pump... You really should
be inspecting the coils inside your duct work and CLEANING
those of dust and debris annually so that the air passing through
the coil in the duct can be more efficiently cooled... You should
also clean the coils inside the heat pump annually as well as
dirt, bugs and any number of things can get inside the fins and
restrict airflow... When you shut off your AC system each year
you should be covering the heat pump unit outside to PREVENT
debris like leaves from entering it and to protect it from ice
getting inside the unit during the winter...

~ Evan

On Apr 6, 10:39*am, brassplyer wrote:
On Apr 6, 2:51*am, Evan wrote:

It is obvious that you don't have a clue what
to
look for when you "hose down your condenser"

My method - disconnect power from unit at the outside breaker and main
breaker. Take top grill/fan piece of condenser housing. Pull plant
crap out by hand and/or with a shop vac, hose down the coils to remove
other crap. Anything wrong with this?

Unit was working like a champ the last time I fired it up a few months
ago. Cooled off the house quickly. Sound like maintenance was
obviously called for (as of that time) to you?


Yup... BEFORE you start it up for the new season you should do
maintenance on the entire system...

Just because something was "working like a champ" the previous
time you operated it has no bearing on any number of things that
have happened to it since your "well it worked the last time I used
it" situation...

Has it rained since the last time you used your AC unit ???
Could have had a lightning strike nearby that fried an electrical
component inside the heat pump...

If your idea of "maintenance" is just cleaning it out periodically
then you have no clue... Preventive maintenance is the
cumulative effect of doing small things much more often
to allow the equipment function normally without having to
struggle to keep up with demand because of dirty and clogged
coils... It also requires more care than turning off a switch in
the fall and a few minutes under your wet/dry vac in the spring...

Count yourself as lucky that it lasted 22 years...

~~ Evan

On Apr 6, 2:40*pm, Evan wrote:

Yup... *BEFORE you start it up for the new season you should do
maintenance on the entire system...


It gets used periodically, albeit sparsely in the winter as well.
There is no "season". In fact in Florida, you might use the heat one
week, the A/C the next.

But okay.


Has it rained since the last time you used your AC unit ???


It frequently rains *while* using the A/C. I'm in the habit of
shutting it off during lightning storms. I don't run it at all when
I'm at work unless I forget to turn it off.


Could have had a lightning strike nearby that fried an electrical
component inside the heat pump...


Okay, what "maintenance" will prevent this?


If your idea of "maintenance" is just cleaning it out periodically
then you have no clue... *


If I'm doing what I've outlined, I deserve some clue credit, since the
alternative is to not do them.

Preventive maintenance is the
cumulative effect of doing small things much more often



Okay, such as..? You haven't really given any specifics. Coils inside
and outside cleaned. Filter changed periodically. What else?

to allow the equipment function normally without having to
struggle to keep up with demand because of dirty and clogged
coils...


It didn't appear to be struggling at all.

On Apr 6, 9:03*am, "Steve" wrote:

If it has a leaky evap coil, your already done... time to replace it.
Generally, if the system is more than 15 years old, you would be better
served by replacing the system. Here in south Mississippi, the energy
savings alone will normally give an ROI of 4 - 5 years.....


Yeah, that's a factor I've been hearing, the efficiency is supposed to
be a lot better on newer units.Of course, due to minimal usage, I've
never had a power bill over about $130. That's in the dead of summer.
Never running it, the bill's around $70. So at most it's costing me
around $2/day to run.

The other consideration is this tax break that's currently available,
and a modest credit from the power company.

As old as your system is, it very likely needs professional
cleaning. I'm sure a few on alternating havoc are tired of
hearing me say "have your condensing unit professionally
cleaned". I've found over the years that even condensors
that look clean are often dirty. Which interferes with
cooling, and drives the electric bill up. One Trane I
cleaned, the amp draw dropped about amp after cleaning.
Which is equivilant to turning off two 100 watt light bulbs.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"brassplyer" wrote in message
...

Well, I tend to do it myself within the bounds of common
sense. Almost
never pay an auto mechanic, have replaced engines, trannies,
etc.
myself. Installed my own water heater, repaired an entire
section of
carpenter ant damaged wall, etc.

However, I'm also conscious of possible hazards of fumbling
around
something I'm not familiar with or accidentally trashing a
unit that
*could* have been salvaged by a reputable pro had they been
given the
chance to work on it before I wreaked havoc on it.

If I can find something obvious that I can remedy it myself,
I'm more
than happy to tackle it. But at this point I'm trying to
become
educated as much as anything.

Not wrong, just incomplete. The professional coil cleaning
chemicals do wonders.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"brassplyer" wrote in message
...

My method - disconnect power from unit at the outside
breaker and main
breaker. Take top grill/fan piece of condenser housing. Pull
plant
crap out by hand and/or with a shop vac, hose down the coils
to remove
other crap. Anything wrong with this?

Unit was working like a champ the last time I fired it up a
few months
ago. Cooled off the house quickly. Sound like maintenance
was
obviously called for (as of that time) to you?

I played trumpet when I was in about 4th grade. Years later,
I got a chance to try a bugle. I'd lost all the skill I had.

I couldn't even brass my way through. I tried, but I didn't
have the pucker any more. I shoulda kept on with the
lessons. I'd like to play, these days. Taken some piano
lessons, but carrying a piano in a marching band is a pain
in the brass.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tony Hwang"
wrote in message ...

You brass player? Me too low brass all my life.

On Apr 6, 5:17*pm, brassplyer wrote:


It didn't appear to be struggling at all.


How do you know this ??

You sit outside next to it as it runs -- no -- maybe you
leave your windows open so you can hear it running from
inside the house -- no...

You don't know how it was working when it was running
last, all you do know is it made the air cold at that time...

~~ Evan

"Stormin Mormon" wrote


After reading your messages, and your replies to the
tradesmen who have commented. It's obvious to me that you're
a hard core do it yourselfer. And that if a tradesman writes

While I am willing to know when I need a pro.

"Well, your service guy needs to.... A, B, C..... that you
will take the covers off, and do your own version of what
the service guys do. Which may help, or it might not.

I doubt I will see a problem. I don't know what to look for.

I've been servicing refrigeration and AC systems long enough
to know that there are a lot of things that are not obvious
to the untrained eye. I'm in the rapid learning part of my
career, it seems that every time I service a system, I learn
somthing new. I've only been in the trade for 15 years. So,
I encourage you to ask your friends and neighbors, and see
who they reccomend.

I have a company coming out tomorrow to check mine. I probably do not need
a full HVAC reoplacement (combined heat and AC and heat worked while AC is
under cooling). All I know we skipped HVAC maintenance while paying off
25,000$ in rental damage and some 5,000$ in materials to 'DIY' repairs.

I am pretty sure we just need added coolant. We have not done that in 3
years since return as as far as we lnow, it was last done in 1998. The
renters were not bashful at all at getting contractors in the reducing their
rent by the cost and filing after the fact but there is no referent to Freon
added. Heck I was in Japan. I can just reasonably guess last fill was 1998.

In my case, still have AC but it is not as cool as it should be. Last year
it was 'ok' but I recall it being better.

Professionals due in tomorrow to service the unit and do what is needed.

On Apr 6, 5:53*pm, Evan wrote:

It didn't appear to be struggling at all.

How do you know this ??


Having been in houses where the A/C was clearly struggling to do a
minimal job of cooling the house - and being familiar with the
performance of this A/C system since it was brand new.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote

cleaning. I'm sure a few on alternating havoc are tired of
hearing me say "have your condensing unit professionally
cleaned". I've found over the years that even condensors
that look clean are often dirty. Which interferes with
cooling, and drives the electric bill up. One Trane I
cleaned, the amp draw dropped about amp after cleaning.
Which is equivilant to turning off two 100 watt light bulbs.

Grin, I'm hopeful that is all I need! In fact, it's a possible. I asked for
servicing too.

Groan, when we got back they hadn't changedd the filters since we left in
2001. We even left then with with 6 of them (anticipating 3 years away).

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I played trumpet when I was in about 4th grade.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


Is that what your dad called it: a "trumpet"?

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Not wrong, just incomplete. The professional coil cleaning
chemicals do wonders.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


So does hydrofluric acid and a belt sander.




"brassplyer" wrote in message
...

My method - disconnect power from unit at the outside
breaker and main
breaker. Take top grill/fan piece of condenser housing. Pull
plant
crap out by hand and/or with a shop vac, hose down the coils
to remove
other crap. Anything wrong with this?

Unit was working like a champ the last time I fired it up a
few months
ago. Cooled off the house quickly. Sound like maintenance
was
obviously called for (as of that time) to you?

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"Stormin Mormon" wrote


After reading your messages, and your replies to the
tradesmen who have commented. It's obvious to me that you're
a hard core do it yourselfer. And that if a tradesman writes

While I am willing to know when I need a pro.

"Well, your service guy needs to.... A, B, C..... that you
will take the covers off, and do your own version of what
the service guys do. Which may help, or it might not.

I doubt I will see a problem. I don't know what to look for.

I've been servicing refrigeration and AC systems long enough
to know that there are a lot of things that are not obvious
to the untrained eye. I'm in the rapid learning part of my
career, it seems that every time I service a system, I learn
somthing new. I've only been in the trade for 15 years. So,
I encourage you to ask your friends and neighbors, and see
who they reccomend.

I have a company coming out tomorrow to check mine. I probably do not
need a full HVAC reoplacement (combined heat and AC and heat worked while
AC is under cooling). All I know we skipped HVAC maintenance while paying
off 25,000$ in rental damage and some 5,000$ in materials to 'DIY'
repairs.

I am pretty sure we just need added coolant. We have not done that in 3
years since return as as far as we lnow, it was last done in 1998. The
renters were not bashful at all at getting contractors in the reducing
their rent by the cost and filing after the fact but there is no referent
to Freon added. Heck I was in Japan. I can just reasonably guess last fill
was 1998.

In my case, still have AC but it is not as cool as it should be. Last
year it was 'ok' but I recall it being better.

Professionals due in tomorrow to service the unit and do what is needed.


Have them flush it out and change it if it has been that long.

There are some people who don't maintain anything till it
breaks. Sounds like you had those type of people.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"cshenk"
wrote in message ...

Grin, I'm hopeful that is all I need! In fact, it's a
possible. I asked for
servicing too.

Groan, when we got back they hadn't changedd the filters
since we left in
2001. We even left then with with 6 of them (anticipating 3
years away).