On Apr 6, 2:40*pm, Evan wrote:
On Apr 6, 10:39*am, brassplyer wrote:

On Apr 6, 2:51*am, Evan wrote:

It is obvious that you don't have a clue what
to
look for when you "hose down your condenser"

My method - disconnect power from unit at the outside breaker and main
breaker. Take top grill/fan piece of condenser housing. Pull plant
crap out by hand and/or with a shop vac, hose down the coils to remove
other crap. Anything wrong with this?

Unit was working like a champ the last time I fired it up a few months
ago. Cooled off the house quickly. Sound like maintenance was
obviously called for (as of that time) to you?

Yup... *BEFORE you start it up for the new season you should do
maintenance on the entire system...

Just because something was "working like a champ" the previous
time you operated it has no bearing on any number of things that
have happened to it since your "well it worked the last time I used
it" situation...

Has it rained since the last time you used your AC unit ???
Could have had a lightning strike nearby that fried an electrical
component inside the heat pump...

If your idea of "maintenance" is just cleaning it out periodically
then you have no clue... *Preventive maintenance is the
cumulative effect of doing small things much more often
to allow the equipment function normally without having to
struggle to keep up with demand because of dirty and clogged
coils... *It also requires more care than turning off a switch in
the fall and a few minutes under your wet/dry vac in the spring...

Count yourself as lucky that it lasted 22 years...

~~ Evan

Go ahead, tell us the specific items you do for pm on a split system
ac?

On Apr 6, 2:30*pm, Evan wrote:
On Apr 6, 8:36*am, wrote:





On Apr 6, 8:02*am, jamesgangnc wrote:

On Apr 6, 2:51*am, Evan wrote:

On Apr 5, 10:37*pm, brassplyer wrote:

On Apr 5, 10:22*pm, The King wrote:

The only servicing a residential a/c ever needs is a clean filter a
few times a year and hose out the condenser after the cotton woods
quit making cotton. *That's been my sure fire winner for over 20yrs
with mine. *

Right, exactly what I've been doing. And a couple of times I've had to
blow out the drainage line when it got clogged with gunk.

Or you can pay some Stormy Mormmy type simpleton to come
out and hook up their nasty gauge set every year, contaminate the
system and let a little gas out when they disconnect and charge you
out the ass for "the service".

Which is exactly what I've heard and why I've avoided having anyone
"service" it. I've gone under the assumption that since once fired up
it cooled the house off quickly and could easily get it colder than I
needed, *things were working as they should.

Right, except if someone stole the refrigerant out of your outside
heat pump unit... *Or something finally corroded through after
22 years of being outside in the elements... *Or maybe you don't
cover your outside heat pump unit during the winter and ice
built up inside of it and snapped something letting the refrigerant
gas escape...

In every trade there are good companies and bad... *Don't lump them
all in with the bad... *It is obvious that you don't have a clue what
to
look for when you "hose down your condenser" and wouldn't know
how to find a refrigerant leak if that is what your problem is...

Stop being cheap and hire someone to come out and give your
AC unit an look to see what is wrong with it...

~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In which case it would be "BROKEN" and need fixing. *I agree with the
other posters, servicing is just a money making operation.

The OP probably needs someone to take a look at but not because it
needs servicing, because it's broken.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And if AC units need professional servicing, including checking the
refrigerant level, why is it that refrigerators, which are very
similar refrigerant systems, don't? * *All you need to do is change
the filters and clean out any leaves from the compressor unit. *And if
servicing is so critical, how is it that the OPs lasted 22 years,
which is the full life, without it? * *You can't compare this to car
maintenance. * If you didn't change or check the oil in your car, it
surely wouldn't last 22 years.

Why ??

Because a refrigerator only keeps a small very well insulated space
cold... *Your home AC unit (which is only about 3x the size if you
look at the internal components compared to a refrigerator) is working
MUCH harder to cool off an exponentially larger volume of space in
comparison to the interior volume of your refrigerator...

As to your other ponderings about why his AC unit lasted so long
without requiring repair, who knows, could be he hardly ever uses
it like the OP claimed in previous posts, could have been luck...
A car could conceivably go 22 years without an oil change if you
drove it less than 4,000 total miles during that time... *I don't know
of anyone who owns a car that they "hardly ever drive" over more
than 20 years of owning it, do you ???

And no, you don't know enough about AC units if all you think
you need to do is change the filter in the duct work and clear
out the leaves from the outside heat pump... * You really should
be inspecting the coils inside your duct work and CLEANING
those of dust and debris annually so that the air passing through
the coil in the duct can be more efficiently cooled... *You should
also clean the coils inside the heat pump annually as well as
dirt, bugs and any number of things can get inside the fins and
restrict airflow... *When you shut off your AC system each year
you should be covering the heat pump unit outside to PREVENT
debris like leaves from entering it and to protect it from ice
getting inside the unit during the winter...

~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Covre the heat pump outside during the winter? Doesn't really heat
very well when you do that does it?

In article , brassplyer wrote:
Have a Trane central system installed in 88. Model T V030 A140A0

When I last ran the A/C a few months ago it seemed to be working fine.
Usually when it fires up, you can hear a shursssshhhhh-shurrssssh
which I gather is freon starting to move within the system and you can
feel the bubbles in a tube at the front of the air handler housing.

Now when I fire it up I get no freon sound and no cool air. The air
handler is funning and the fan on the compressor unit outside is
running. I depressed the Hi Press fitting a really quick hit just to
verify there's pressure and there is.

It actually exhibited this behavior years ago when it was newer - a
few restarts seemed to get it kicked into gear, but so far no luck.

I'm not versed in A/C but am otherwise mechanically inclined, no
problem whatsoever digging into things with proper direction. Any
primary suspects I should look at before calling someone in?

Thanks for all input.


One thing you can do is take a clamp ammeter around the 220 line and measure the amps.
On mine I measure 6 amps, which probably shows some loss of refridgerent
but its still working. older AC will draw a lot more amps.

greg

In article , (GregS) wrote:
In article ,
brassplyer wrote:
Have a Trane central system installed in 88. Model T V030 A140A0

When I last ran the A/C a few months ago it seemed to be working fine.
Usually when it fires up, you can hear a shursssshhhhh-shurrssssh
which I gather is freon starting to move within the system and you can
feel the bubbles in a tube at the front of the air handler housing.

Now when I fire it up I get no freon sound and no cool air. The air
handler is funning and the fan on the compressor unit outside is
running. I depressed the Hi Press fitting a really quick hit just to
verify there's pressure and there is.

It actually exhibited this behavior years ago when it was newer - a
few restarts seemed to get it kicked into gear, but so far no luck.

I'm not versed in A/C but am otherwise mechanically inclined, no
problem whatsoever digging into things with proper direction. Any
primary suspects I should look at before calling someone in?

Thanks for all input.


One thing you can do is take a clamp ammeter around the 220 line and measure
the amps.
On mine I measure 6 amps, which probably shows some loss of refridgerent
but its still working. older AC will draw a lot more amps.

greg

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/html.../images/11.jpg

That can provide some information. Of course, an older unit
will draw more. A dirty unit will draw more. An under
charged unit will draw less.

Dirty and undercharged can cancell each other out.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"GregS" wrote in message
...

One thing you can do is take a clamp ammeter around the 220
line and measure the amps.
On mine I measure 6 amps, which probably shows some loss of
refridgerent
but its still working. older AC will draw a lot more amps.

greg

Great link! Working that back, led to a list of JPEG files,
that can be printed.
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/html/wkend0412/images/

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"GregS" wrote in message
...
One thing you can do is take a clamp ammeter around the 220
line and measure
the amps.

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/html.../images/11.jpg

The OP stated that he was using it for cooling only.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...

Covre the heat pump outside during the winter? Doesn't
really heat
very well when you do that does it?

On Apr 7, 10:54*am, (GregS) wrote:


One thing you can do is take a clamp ammeter around the 220 line and measure the amps.
On mine I measure 6 amps, which probably shows some loss of refridgerent

greg

As far as I know, there is no consumption of refrigerant in any
residential system.

If you're low, you have a leak. You fix the leak and refill. There
is no periodic topping off of refrigerant that got used up, can't
happen.

"cshenk" wrote in message
...

While I am willing to know when I need a pro.


I doubt I will see a problem. I don't know what to look for.


I have a company coming out tomorrow to check mine. I probably do not
need a full HVAC reoplacement (combined heat and AC and heat worked while
AC is under cooling). All I know we skipped HVAC maintenance while paying
off 25,000$ in rental damage and some 5,000$ in materials to 'DIY'
repairs.

I am pretty sure we just need added coolant. We have not done that in 3
years since return as as far as we lnow, it was last done in 1998. The
renters were not bashful at all at getting contractors in the reducing
their rent by the cost and filing after the fact but there is no referent
to Freon added. Heck I was in Japan. I can just reasonably guess last fill
was 1998.

In my case, still have AC but it is not as cool as it should be. Last
year it was 'ok' but I recall it being better.

Professionals due in tomorrow to service the unit and do what is needed.


OK just so you know, house AC systems have a hermetically sealed refrigerant
circuit, that means the entire thing is all metal except for the Fusite
where the electrical terminals enter the compressor. As such the system
should NEVER require adding refrigerant EVER. If it needs any added then
there is a leak somewhere plain and simple. Car systems however can
sometimes require topping off every several years due to the refrigerant
permeating through the rubber hoses.

And the term is refrigerant not "Freon" or coolant. Freon is DuPont's trade
name for CFC and HCFC refrigerants manufactured by them This does include
R22. However DuPont's trade name for HFC refrigerants such as R134a is
Suva. Hence anyone you may hear referring to the refrigerant in their '94
or newer car as Freon is dead wrong. The same can be said for anyone with a
new AC system using R410a

Coolant stays the same phase (solid, liquid, gas) as it carries heat around,
refrigerant changes phases.

In the R-12 run up, the price went up for a few years.
Eventually, the replacement blends come out on the market.
And then the equipment starts to die off. As the equipment
dies off, the demand goes down, and that affects the market
and pricing. There is still R-12 equipment out there. I
know, I service them.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Steve"
wrote in message
...

For now, the price of R22 has not yet started going up....
but its coming,
you know its coming. Think back to the R12 phase-out. This
is the same
scenerio, but on a much larger scale.

On Apr 7, 10:12*pm, TimR wrote:
On Apr 7, 10:54*am, (GregS) wrote:



One thing you can do is take a clamp ammeter around the 220 line and measure the amps.
On mine I measure 6 amps, which probably shows some loss of refridgerent

greg

As far as I know, there is no consumption of refrigerant in any
residential system.

If you're low, you have a leak. *You fix the leak and refill. *There
is no periodic topping off of refrigerant that got used up, can't
happen.

Yes, but extremely small leaks of a few ounces a year can be almost
impossible to find and fix. There are a lot of systems with that
problem. The only practical solution is to add a little refridgerant
every couple years.

There is no such thing as perfect. All refrigeration systems
leak to some extent. When I got my EPA card, the law said we
can top off any system with less than 50 pounds of
refrigerant.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"TimR"
wrote in message
...

As far as I know, there is no consumption of refrigerant in
any
residential system.

If you're low, you have a leak. You fix the leak and
refill. There
is no periodic topping off of refrigerant that got used up,
can't
happen.

I think that plan will be a good money maker.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote
in message ...

I recover every ounce of refrigerant I can. If it's not
contaminated,
I'm going to reuse it. Somewhere I have a 124 lb R22
recovery cylinder.
I take a little whiff and if it doesn't burn the hair out of
my nose,
a good set of filters and some Acid Away makes it usable.

TDD

jamesgangnc wrote:
On Apr 7, 10:12 pm, TimR wrote:
On Apr 7, 10:54 am, (GregS) wrote:



One thing you can do is take a clamp ammeter around the 220 line and measure the amps.
On mine I measure 6 amps, which probably shows some loss of refridgerent
greg
As far as I know, there is no consumption of refrigerant in any
residential system.

If you're low, you have a leak. You fix the leak and refill. There
is no periodic topping off of refrigerant that got used up, can't
happen.

Yes, but extremely small leaks of a few ounces a year can be almost
impossible to find and fix. There are a lot of systems with that
problem. The only practical solution is to add a little refridgerant
every couple years.

I've had very good luck with a stop leak from the company Cliplight
Manufacturing. I use it for systems that have tiny leaks that would
require a major disassembly to find. I always pull a deep vacuum on
anything that has been rebuilt and use nitrogen to blow through it
a few times. When me and my friends install a new system on a job
somewhere, the condenser may not be installed until the building or
home is ready to be occupied because too many condensing units have
been stolen. We will blow the lines and evaporator out with nitrogen,
install service valves on the line set, pressurize it with nitrogen
and leave it that way until it's time to set the condenser. The good
thing about leaving lines and evaporator charged with N2 is that we
know if there is a leak or if a carpenter put a nail through a line.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lby8fz

TDD

On Apr 8, 8:32*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Apr 7, 10:12*pm, TimR wrote:

On Apr 7, 10:54*am, (GregS) wrote:

One thing you can do is take a clamp ammeter around the 220 line and measure the amps.
On mine I measure 6 amps, which probably shows some loss of refridgerent

greg

As far as I know, there is no consumption of refrigerant in any
residential system.

If you're low, you have a leak. *You fix the leak and refill. *There
is no periodic topping off of refrigerant that got used up, can't
happen.

Yes, but extremely small leaks of a few ounces a year can be almost
impossible to find and fix. *There are a lot of systems with that
problem. *The only practical solution is to add a little refridgerant
every couple years.

Yes, that's what many techs do. Shoot a quick squirt in, satisfy the
customer, guarantee a return visit next year.

Professionals on the other hand know how to fix the leak, and do the
job right.

On Apr 8, 9:22*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
jamesgangnc wrote:
On Apr 7, 10:12 pm, TimR wrote:
On Apr 7, 10:54 am, (GregS) wrote:

One thing you can do is take a clamp ammeter around the 220 line and measure the amps.
On mine I measure 6 amps, which probably shows some loss of refridgerent
greg
As far as I know, there is no consumption of refrigerant in any
residential system.

If you're low, you have a leak. *You fix the leak and refill. *There
is no periodic topping off of refrigerant that got used up, can't
happen.

Yes, but extremely small leaks of a few ounces a year can be almost
impossible to find and fix. *There are a lot of systems with that
problem. *The only practical solution is to add a little refridgerant
every couple years.

I've had very good luck with a stop leak from the company Cliplight
Manufacturing. I use it for systems that have tiny leaks that would
require a major disassembly to find. I always pull a deep vacuum on
anything that has been rebuilt and use nitrogen to blow through it
a few times. When me and my friends install a new system on a job
somewhere, the condenser may not be installed until the building or
home is ready to be occupied because too many condensing units have
been stolen. We will blow the lines and evaporator out with nitrogen,
install service valves on the line set, pressurize it with nitrogen
and leave it that way until it's time to set the condenser. The good
thing about leaving lines and evaporator charged with N2 is that we
know if there is a leak or if a carpenter put a nail through a line.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lby8fz

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I tried that on one system. The compressor was a far bit noisier
after adding that sealer. It ran that way for another year or so but
it didn't sound good while doing it.

jamesgangnc wrote:
On Apr 8, 9:22 am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
jamesgangnc wrote:
On Apr 7, 10:12 pm, TimR wrote:
On Apr 7, 10:54 am, (GregS) wrote:
One thing you can do is take a clamp ammeter around the 220 line and measure the amps.
On mine I measure 6 amps, which probably shows some loss of refridgerent
greg
As far as I know, there is no consumption of refrigerant in any
residential system.
If you're low, you have a leak. You fix the leak and refill. There
is no periodic topping off of refrigerant that got used up, can't
happen.
Yes, but extremely small leaks of a few ounces a year can be almost
impossible to find and fix. There are a lot of systems with that
problem. The only practical solution is to add a little refridgerant
every couple years.
I've had very good luck with a stop leak from the company Cliplight
Manufacturing. I use it for systems that have tiny leaks that would
require a major disassembly to find. I always pull a deep vacuum on
anything that has been rebuilt and use nitrogen to blow through it
a few times. When me and my friends install a new system on a job
somewhere, the condenser may not be installed until the building or
home is ready to be occupied because too many condensing units have
been stolen. We will blow the lines and evaporator out with nitrogen,
install service valves on the line set, pressurize it with nitrogen
and leave it that way until it's time to set the condenser. The good
thing about leaving lines and evaporator charged with N2 is that we
know if there is a leak or if a carpenter put a nail through a line.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lby8fz

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I tried that on one system. The compressor was a far bit noisier
after adding that sealer. It ran that way for another year or so but
it didn't sound good while doing it.

Day before yesterday I had a noisy compressor in a make line at a pizza
place. I injected 3oz of Supco88 into the system and it is a lot quieter
now. It will free up just about any sticking valve or bearing.

http://www.supco.com/Chemicals%20pg7.htm

TDD

Now, that looks totally useful.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote
in message ...

Day before yesterday I had a noisy compressor in a make line
at a pizza
place. I injected 3oz of Supco88 into the system and it is a
lot quieter
now. It will free up just about any sticking valve or
bearing.

http://www.supco.com/Chemicals%20pg7.htm

TDD

In article , TimR wrote:
On Apr 8, 8:32=A0am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Apr 7, 10:12=A0pm, TimR wrote:

On Apr 7, 10:54=A0am, (GregS) wrote:

One thing you can do is take a clamp ammeter around the 220 line and =
measure the amps.
On mine I measure 6 amps, which probably shows some loss of refridger=
ent

greg

As far as I know, there is no consumption of refrigerant in any
residential system.

If you're low, you have a leak. =A0You fix the leak and refill. =A0Ther=
e
is no periodic topping off of refrigerant that got used up, can't
happen.

Yes, but extremely small leaks of a few ounces a year can be almost
impossible to find and fix. =A0There are a lot of systems with that
problem. =A0The only practical solution is to add a little refridgerant
every couple years.

Yes, that's what many techs do. Shoot a quick squirt in, satisfy the
customer, guarantee a return visit next year.

Professionals on the other hand know how to fix the leak, and do the
job right.

I have used some window units for 40 years and still work.
When I see thin aluminum cores, you go to wonder.
The more efficient the more chance of failure.
Now my Cavalier was working great up untill
last month when all hell broke loose. The garage man says he tops his
off a couple times a year. Last year I was trying to top off my 77 280Z
with R134, and it worked for a while, longer than the last time I tried,
15 years ago. I gave away my last can when I sold the car.
Compressor leaks are common on the vehicles.

My House air sort of seems a little slow, but its only taking 1500 watts
and its supposed to be a 2.5 ton.

I had window air units taking 23 amps at 220.


greg

The King wrote:
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:36:09 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I think that plan will be a good money maker.

And illegal.

Perhaps it should be a Union money maker?

"The King" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:34:53 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

There is no such thing as perfect. All refrigeration systems
leak to some extent.

Why do you lie?


Why do bears **** in the woods?

Oscar_Lives wrote:
"The King" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:34:53 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

There is no such thing as perfect. All refrigeration systems
leak to some extent.
Why do you lie?


Why do bears **** in the woods?

Such information is classified and only released on a need to go basis.

The King wrote:
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 20:27:09 -0500, "Oscar_Lives"
wrote:

"The King" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:34:53 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

There is no such thing as perfect. All refrigeration systems
leak to some extent.
Why do you lie?

Why do bears **** in the woods?

Bears are mormon too?

Naw... They would look silly running around in Holy underwear.

You'd never know -- they wear the holy underwear under their
fur.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Alexander" wrote in message
...
The King wrote:
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 20:27:09 -0500, "Oscar_Lives"
wrote:

Why do bears **** in the woods?

Bears are mormon too?

Naw... They would look silly running around in Holy
underwear.