Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions, please:

a. Just how "popular" is this stuff ? When used, or specified ?

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?

c. Good for hot as well as cold service ?

d. Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

Pros and cons, etc. ?

BTW: what's most common in new homes these days that do use Copper;
type k, l, or m ? On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?

Much thanks,
Bob

Bob wrote:

Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions, please:

a. Just how "popular" is this stuff ? When used, or specified ?

Very popular, particularly now that copper prices are very high and
contractors have figured out how to crimp the fittings properly. Being
flexible and in long rolls, PEX reduces the number of joints to
potentially leak, is faster and easier to install, and is cheaper.


b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?

It was more when it first came out, but contractors were starting to
adopt it due to the speed and ease of installation. With copper prices
today it is cheaper and you'll find few if any homebuilders using copper
unless it's some high end house and the owners insist on copper for some
unknown reason.


c. Good for hot as well as cold service ?

Yes. Also used in radiant floor heating systems.


d. Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

I would use it for new construction or any significant remodel. If I'm
just doing a repair or slight change to existing copper I'd stay with
copper.


Pros and cons, etc. ?

Not many cons these days. In the early days the cons were expensive
crimping tools, and general lack of familiarity with PEX. Now there are
fairly cheap crimp tools available and PEX has been around long enough
for people to be familiar with it.


BTW: what's most common in new homes these days that do use Copper;
type k, l, or m ? On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?

New today, if you can find anything new done in copper will probably be
M since it's the cheapest. Older installations will likely be L since
it's more durable, particularly in hard water areas. I doubt you'll find
K anywhere but commercial installations.

Bob wrote:
Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions,
please:
a. Just how "popular" is this stuff ? When used, or specified ?

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?

c. Good for hot as well as cold service ?

d. Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

Pros and cons, etc. ?

BTW: what's most common in new homes these days that do use Copper;
type k, l, or m ? On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?


I'm replacing my galvanized pipe with "L" copper. I bought a lot of the fittings
by the pound at a metal recycler.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:31:04 -0500, Bob wrote:

Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions, please:

a. Just how "popular" is this stuff ? When used, or specified ?


Don't know

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?


Don't know

c. Good for hot as well as cold service ?

Absolutely


d. Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?


I did when we built our house. Why? one joint on each end and easy to run.
Just make sure you don't scratch it as you pull it. It will not bust as
easily as copper if it freezes.


Pros and cons, etc. ?

See above.


BTW: what's most common in new homes these days that do use Copper;
type k, l, or m ? On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?

Much thanks,
Bob

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:31:04 -0500, Bob wrote:

Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions, please:

a. Just how "popular" is this stuff ? When used, or specified ?


For me, it is the cat's meow.

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?


Less expensive: easy install, easy repair (I extended my tub lines
when I remodeled the bathroom).

c. Good for hot as well as cold service ?

Yes. I'm in the desert and it is now being used in landscape
irrigation.


d. Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

I do. I have a PEX system with a manifold in the laundry room - easy
access. 12 years old and not a single leak, so far!

Pros and cons, etc. ?

I haven't really determined any "cons". Use the newer expanding
connectors (no crimp rings).

Check with local permit office, some localities were slow to adopt
PEX.


BTW: what's most common in new homes these days that do use Copper;
type k, l, or m ? On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?

Much thanks,
Bob

For those who can't figure out the cons:

Rodents love to chew PEX.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:28:29 -0800 (PST), mike
wrote:

For those who can't figure out the cons:

Rodents love to chew PEX.

State your experience please. I know rodents like to chew electrical
wires. I have no experience with them eating my PEX.

On Feb 18, 3:31*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:28:29 -0800 (PST), mike

wrote:
For those who can't figure out the cons:

Rodents love to chew PEX.

State your experience please. I know rodents like to chew electrical
wires. I have no experience with them eating my PEX.

Don't settle for one data point:

http://tinyurl.com/yk5fdxf

Google it. Then you can decide if it's worth the risk.

At least with wiring you have various forms of circuit protection
(breakers, arc fault, etc). That usually doesn't happen in plumbing.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:56:59 -0800 (PST), mike
wrote:

On Feb 18, 3:31*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:28:29 -0800 (PST), mike

wrote:
For those who can't figure out the cons:

Rodents love to chew PEX.

State your experience please. I know rodents like to chew electrical
wires. I have no experience with them eating my PEX.

Don't settle for one data point:

http://tinyurl.com/yk5fdxf

Google it. Then you can decide if it's worth the risk.

At least with wiring you have various forms of circuit protection
(breakers, arc fault, etc). That usually doesn't happen in plumbing.

Truth is, I don't have rodents. PEX and circuits are just fine.

I have seen woodpeckers and squirrels dull their beak / teeth on
metal.

Makes a heck of noise.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:31:04 -0500, Bob wrote:

Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions, please:

a. Just how "popular" is this stuff ? When used, or specified ?

Very. New construction, mostly.

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?

Evidently it's a lot cheaper. Otherwise it wouldn't be used.

c. Good for hot as well as cold service ?

Yes.

d. Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

Personally, I hate the stuff. I'd rather sweat copper than mess with
it. I have it in this house and hate the stuff.

Pros and cons, etc. ?

Small jobs are a PITA, compared to copper.

BTW: what's most common in new homes these days that do use Copper;
type k, l, or m ? On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?

My bet is 'k', only because of cost. I'd use 'l', but only because
the cost of materials isn't my primary motivator. Labor is a far
bigger issue and the labor is the same. I'm using 'l' for air in the
garage and shop.

krw wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:31:04 -0500, Bob wrote:

Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions,
please:

a. Just how "popular" is this stuff ? When used, or specified ?

Very. New construction, mostly.

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?

Evidently it's a lot cheaper. Otherwise it wouldn't be used.

c. Good for hot as well as cold service ?

Yes.

d. Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

Personally, I hate the stuff. I'd rather sweat copper than mess with
it. I have it in this house and hate the stuff.

Pros and cons, etc. ?

Small jobs are a PITA, compared to copper.

BTW: what's most common in new homes these days that do use Copper;
type k, l, or m ? On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?

My bet is 'k', only because of cost. I'd use 'l', but only because
the cost of materials isn't my primary motivator. Labor is a far
bigger issue and the labor is the same. I'm using 'l' for air in the
garage and shop.

'k' is not common. 'm' is the light stuff most commonly used, IIRC.

"mike" wrote in message
...
For those who can't figure out the cons:

Rodents love to chew PEX.

Rodent's love to chew. That's not a con of PEX, it's a con of having
rodents.

krw wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:31:04 -0500, Bob wrote:

Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions, please:

a. Just how "popular" is this stuff ? When used, or specified ?

Very. New construction, mostly.

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?

Evidently it's a lot cheaper. Otherwise it wouldn't be used.

c. Good for hot as well as cold service ?

Yes.

d. Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

Personally, I hate the stuff. I'd rather sweat copper than mess with
it. I have it in this house and hate the stuff.

Pros and cons, etc. ?

Small jobs are a PITA, compared to copper.

BTW: what's most common in new homes these days that do use Copper;
type k, l, or m ? On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?

My bet is 'k', only because of cost. I'd use 'l', but only because
the cost of materials isn't my primary motivator. Labor is a far
bigger issue and the labor is the same. I'm using 'l' for air in the
garage and shop.

Ok, so you don't know much about PEX and the fact that it was becoming
popular over copper even when it was more expensive due to much faster
and easier installation and fewer joints to potentially leak.

You also don't know much about copper since you have the grades
backwards. Type "M" is the thinnest wall and cheapest, type "L" is a
medium wall thickness and type "K" is the heaviest wall thickness and
the most expensive. Type "K" is rarely found outside of commercial
installations.

krw wrote:

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?

Evidently it's a lot cheaper. Otherwise it wouldn't be used.

Cheaper as defined by material AND installation cost. It also has the benefit of
being somewhat freeze resistant.

On Feb 19, 9:17�am, Robert Neville wrote:
krw wrote:
b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
� �expensive or cheaper ? �If more, why is it used (at all) ?

Evidently it's a lot cheaper. �Otherwise it wouldn't be used.

Cheaper as defined by material AND installation cost. It also has the benefit of
being somewhat freeze resistant.

Added some fixtures using PEX, cheap, easy to work with no downsides
at all.

And since mine MIGHT FREEZE its nice to know its freeze resistant

On Feb 19, 4:52*am, "Joe" wrote:
"mike" wrote in message

...

For those who can't figure out the cons:

Rodents love to chew PEX.

Rodent's love to chew. *That's not a con of PEX, it's a con of having
rodents.

Yes it is a con for PEX, since rodents tend not to chew through copper
pipe, by comparison.

Softness in the face of rodent teeth is a problem.

On Feb 18, 7:31*am, Bob wrote:
Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions, please:

a. *Just how "popular" is this stuff ? *When used, or specified ?

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
* * expensive or cheaper ? *If more, why is it used (at all) ?

c. *Good for hot as well as cold service ?

d. *Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

Pros and cons, etc. ?

BTW: *what's most common in new homes these days that do use Copper;
type k, l, or m ? * On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?

Much thanks,
Bob

Pex is extremely fast to install on new construction. That's it's
main selling point. Labor is about the most expensive part that goes
into a new home.

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?

Sharkbite connectors are horribly overpriced/expensive. I considered PEX
until I found out how much the connectors cost. If you can find an
inexpensive way to join PEX tubing, it will be much more cost effective.
You can get connector kits and make your own, but I don't know how much
those cost per connector.


d. Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

Copper. One main reason - I don't trust the PEX connection process. The
push on connectors use rubber o-rings to make a seal. Know what rubber o-
rings do after 20 years? Yeah - they leak. The clamp fittings clamp the pex
to pipe, but again you are clamping flexible pex to pipe, and it's going to
leak sooner or later. My copper job will be in this house working
flawlessly when I've died of old age. An equivalent PEX installation will
be leaking like a sieve by then.

I may be wrong, but I've seen a lot of clamped pipes and o-rings in my
time, and they all leak sooner or later. Until they come up with a
inexpensive PEX connector that will last 50 years, I won't use it anyplace
that I can't get to it quickly and easily for maintenance. Keep that in
mind before you seal PEX into a wall - when it leaks, you will have to tear
the wall out, and if that happens you will wish you had used copper (at
least I wished they had used copper - I would not have had the broken
platic pipe to start with). My neighbor is likewise cursing cpvc - he had a
similar experience a while ago with breaking cpvc in a wall.

I also admit to some bias against plastics in general. I just spent a week
ripping out cpvc and replacing it with copper. We had a pipe break inside
of a wall and it made quite a mess. I'm not sure why it broke nor how
durable the cpvc is supposed to be, but I do know I'm not the only one
around here with broken cpvc, and I also know my copper job will be there
for many years without leaks.

On Feb 19, 3:09*pm, Zootal wrote:
b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
* * expensive or cheaper ? *If more, why is it used (at all) ?

Sharkbite connectors are horribly overpriced/expensive. I considered PEX
until I found out how much the connectors cost. If you can find an
inexpensive way to join PEX tubing, it will be much more cost effective.
You can get connector kits and make your own, but I don't know how much
those cost per connector.

d. *Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

Copper. One main reason - I don't trust the PEX connection process. The
push on connectors use rubber o-rings to make a seal. Know what rubber o-
rings do after 20 years? Yeah - they leak. The clamp fittings clamp the pex
to pipe, but again you are clamping flexible pex to pipe, and it's going to
leak sooner or later. My copper job will be in this house working
flawlessly when I've died of old age. An equivalent PEX installation will
be leaking like a sieve by then.

I may be wrong, but I've seen a lot of clamped pipes and o-rings in my
time, and they all leak sooner or later. Until they come up with a
inexpensive PEX connector that will last 50 years, I won't use it anyplace
that I can't get to it quickly and easily for maintenance. Keep that in
mind before you seal PEX into a wall - when it leaks, you will have to tear
the wall out, and if that happens you will wish you had used copper (at
least I wished they had used copper - I would not have had the broken
platic pipe to start with). My neighbor is likewise cursing cpvc - he had a
similar experience a while ago with breaking cpvc in a wall.

I also admit to some bias against plastics in general. I just spent a week
ripping out cpvc and replacing it with copper. We had a pipe break inside
of a wall and it made quite a mess. I'm not sure why it broke nor how
durable the cpvc is supposed to be, but I do know I'm not the only one
around here with broken cpvc, and I also know my copper job will be there
for many years without leaks.

PEX isnt usually installed using Sharkbite connectors.

Jimmie

I also admit to some bias against plastics in general. I just spent a
wee
k
ripping out cpvc and replacing it with copper. We had a pipe break
inside of a wall and it made quite a mess. I'm not sure why it broke
nor how durable the cpvc is supposed to be, but I do know I'm not the
only one around here with broken cpvc, and I also know my copper job
will be there for many years without leaks.

PEX isnt usually installed using Sharkbite connectors.

Jimmie


How do they install it on a commercial or large job? I'm guessing they make
their own connections and that these connections are much cheaper then
sharkbites?

I actually have a half dozen sharkbites. I used them to cap pipes so I
still had water to half the house while I was working on the plumbing - I
found them to be *very* handy for this. Pop them on, pipe sealed. Pop them
right off when done. Then when I went to pressure test my work, grab a
sharkbite cap and pop it on, test my pipes, pop it right off when done.
They are very usefull in the right place :-)

Zootal wrote:

I also admit to some bias against plastics in general. I just spent a
wee
k
ripping out cpvc and replacing it with copper. We had a pipe break
inside of a wall and it made quite a mess. I'm not sure why it broke
nor how durable the cpvc is supposed to be, but I do know I'm not the
only one around here with broken cpvc, and I also know my copper job
will be there for many years without leaks.

PEX isnt usually installed using Sharkbite connectors.

Jimmie


How do they install it on a commercial or large job? I'm guessing they make
their own connections and that these connections are much cheaper then
sharkbites?

I actually have a half dozen sharkbites. I used them to cap pipes so I
still had water to half the house while I was working on the plumbing - I
found them to be *very* handy for this. Pop them on, pipe sealed. Pop them
right off when done. Then when I went to pressure test my work, grab a
sharkbite cap and pop it on, test my pipes, pop it right off when done.
They are very usefull in the right place :-)

There are several different connection types used for PEX connections
depending on the manufacturer and none of those standard connections are
like the "Sharkbite" ones. There are a couple varieties of crimp
connections and at least one type that uses an expansion tool to briefly
expand the PEX to fit over the connection and the PEX then contracts
solidly over it. All have been in use for a number of years now with no
apparent issues.

On the subject of the "Sharkbite" style connectors, they are essentially
the same as the push lock connectors that have been used in both
industrial automation pneumatics as well as in heavy truck air brake
systems for many years with no apparent issues there either. As long as
they are made with proper QC and proper material selection, there is no
reason that they should not outlast the life of the tubing itself.

On the tubing life subject, I will note that in hard water areas copper
pipe / tube will have a much shorter life span than PEX.

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:28:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Feb 19, 9:17?am, Robert Neville wrote:
krw wrote:
b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
? ?expensive or cheaper ? ?If more, why is it used (at all) ?

Evidently it's a lot cheaper. ?Otherwise it wouldn't be used.

Cheaper as defined by material AND installation cost. It also has the benefit of
being somewhat freeze resistant.

Added some fixtures using PEX, cheap, easy to work with no downsides
at all.

And since mine MIGHT FREEZE its nice to know its freeze resistant

In another thread someone had a pipe break under a slab. Never found
out if they used PEX, up an through the attic.

PEX is easy to transition to copper, CPVC and poly type pipes.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:20:36 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:31:04 -0500, Bob wrote:

Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions,
please:

a. Just how "popular" is this stuff ? When used, or specified ?

Very. New construction, mostly.

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?

Evidently it's a lot cheaper. Otherwise it wouldn't be used.

c. Good for hot as well as cold service ?

Yes.

d. Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

Personally, I hate the stuff. I'd rather sweat copper than mess with
it. I have it in this house and hate the stuff.

Pros and cons, etc. ?

Small jobs are a PITA, compared to copper.

BTW: what's most common in new homes these days that do use Copper;
type k, l, or m ? On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?

My bet is 'k', only because of cost. I'd use 'l', but only because
the cost of materials isn't my primary motivator. Labor is a far
bigger issue and the labor is the same. I'm using 'l' for air in the
garage and shop.

'k' is not common. 'm' is the light stuff most commonly used, IIRC.

Now you got me thinking... I just checked the stuff I'm using. It's
marked "Type 1/2" L" in blue. IIRC the cheaper red stuff is type K.
The box stores sell a *lot* of it because it is somewhat cheaper. Do
I have that backwards?

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:40:20 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


krw wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:31:04 -0500, Bob wrote:

Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions, please:

a. Just how "popular" is this stuff ? When used, or specified ?

Very. New construction, mostly.

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?

Evidently it's a lot cheaper. Otherwise it wouldn't be used.

c. Good for hot as well as cold service ?

Yes.

d. Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

Personally, I hate the stuff. I'd rather sweat copper than mess with
it. I have it in this house and hate the stuff.

Pros and cons, etc. ?

Small jobs are a PITA, compared to copper.

BTW: what's most common in new homes these days that do use Copper;
type k, l, or m ? On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?

My bet is 'k', only because of cost. I'd use 'l', but only because
the cost of materials isn't my primary motivator. Labor is a far
bigger issue and the labor is the same. I'm using 'l' for air in the
garage and shop.

Ok, so you don't know much about PEX and the fact that it was becoming
popular over copper even when it was more expensive due to much faster
and easier installation and fewer joints to potentially leak.

That makes it better for the professional installer, not me.

You also don't know much about copper since you have the grades
backwards. Type "M" is the thinnest wall and cheapest, type "L" is a
medium wall thickness and type "K" is the heaviest wall thickness and
the most expensive. Type "K" is rarely found outside of commercial
installations.

No, I'm not a plumber. I only do it on the weekends and hate every
minute of it. That doesn't change the fact that I'd never use PEX, if
I had a choice.

On Feb 18, 7:31*am, Bob wrote:
Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions, please:

a. *Just how "popular" is this stuff ? *When used, or specified ?


It is becoming popular in new construction for its ease of
installation...


b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
* * expensive or cheaper ? *If more, why is it used (at all) ?


It is usually less expensive than copper piping... The advantage to
using PEX piping is that rather than routing pipes starting in one
place
in your home and going from fixture to fixture (which can have water
traveling quite far through your entire home to get to the last
fixture on
your pipes) PEX piping is installed in a "home run" configuration with
each fixture location getting its own PEX pipe run to it from the
central
distribution manifold... What this means is that there are NO
additional
connections/joints in the walls of your home piped with PEX, only the
one
at the manifold and the one at the pipe stub for the shutoff at the
fixture
location... When something leaks and the shutoff under your sink or
toilet won't hold, with PEX you can shut off only that one fixture
compared to having to shut off the water in your entire house with a
typical copper pipe installation...


c. *Good for hot as well as cold service ?


Yes... Since PEX has been used for years in underfloor heating
systems
it is fine for hot water... The standard has become blue PEX tubing
for
cold and red PEX tubing for hot water...


d. *Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?


Why not use it in your home... Think of it as a "structured plumbing
system" with superior performance to the copper piping it has
replaced...
With a PEX plumbed house you don't have to wait for hot water to go
through all of the pipes in your house to get to a distant fixture, as
each fixture is basically on its own pipe...

If a leak ever happens you have the ability with PEX to shutoff ONLY
the affected line, with copper piping it is usually ALL or NONE as far
as shutting off the water flow...


Pros and cons, etc. ?


See above comments...


BTW: *what's most common in new homes these days that do use Copper;
type k, l, or m ? * On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?

Much thanks,
Bob

~~ Evan

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:12:49 -0800 (PST), Evan
wrote:

On Feb 18, 7:31*am, Bob wrote:
Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions, please:

a. *Just how "popular" is this stuff ? *When used, or specified ?


It is becoming popular in new construction for its ease of
installation...


b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
* * expensive or cheaper ? *If more, why is it used (at all) ?


It is usually less expensive than copper piping... The advantage to
using PEX piping is that rather than routing pipes starting in one
place
in your home and going from fixture to fixture (which can have water
traveling quite far through your entire home to get to the last
fixture on
your pipes) PEX piping is installed in a "home run" configuration with
each fixture location getting its own PEX pipe run to it from the
central
distribution manifold... What this means is that there are NO
additional
connections/joints in the walls of your home piped with PEX, only the
one
at the manifold and the one at the pipe stub for the shutoff at the
fixture
location... When something leaks and the shutoff under your sink or
toilet won't hold, with PEX you can shut off only that one fixture
compared to having to shut off the water in your entire house with a
typical copper pipe installation...

The distances aren't that much different between a home run and a
daisy chain. The down side of the home run topology is that *all*
fixtures get the same delay (and waste of hot water). After a shower,
water from the sink will still be as cold as it was when you got out
of bed. Running hot water in the sink doesn't help the dishwasher get
hot water at all.

c. *Good for hot as well as cold service ?


Yes... Since PEX has been used for years in underfloor heating
systems
it is fine for hot water... The standard has become blue PEX tubing
for
cold and red PEX tubing for hot water...


d. *Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?


Why not use it in your home... Think of it as a "structured plumbing
system" with superior performance to the copper piping it has
replaced...
With a PEX plumbed house you don't have to wait for hot water to go
through all of the pipes in your house to get to a distant fixture, as
each fixture is basically on its own pipe...

Again, that's not an advantage.

If a leak ever happens you have the ability with PEX to shutoff ONLY
the affected line, with copper piping it is usually ALL or NONE as far
as shutting off the water flow...

*That* is an advantage, though I installed ball valves in each copper
line in the basement of my previous house to accomplish the same thing
- not something that would be possible in this house (PEX in the slab
- gack!). It is also an advantage in the Winter. I shut the water
off to the sillcocks and opened them. They don't use frostless
sillcocks here, so this reduces the chances of damage.

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:12:49 -0800 (PST), Evan
wrote:

The standard has become blue PEX tubing
for
cold and red PEX tubing for hot water...

That makes me laugh a bit.

Standing at the counter one day, telling the man I needed "red and
blue" PEX. He said he didn't have any red PEX. I was a PEX virgin.

A plumber guy at the end of the counter said to use white. Smacked
myself in the forehead. I extended both hot and cold five foot with
white lines (remember hot/cold sides).

It don't have to be red or blue.. white will do.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:12:49 -0800 (PST), Evan
wrote:

The standard has become blue PEX tubing
for
cold and red PEX tubing for hot water...

That makes me laugh a bit.

Standing at the counter one day, telling the man I needed "red and
blue" PEX. He said he didn't have any red PEX. I was a PEX virgin.

A plumber guy at the end of the counter said to use white. Smacked
myself in the forehead. I extended both hot and cold five foot with
white lines (remember hot/cold sides).

It don't have to be red or blue.. white will do.


That *is* pretty funny. Did you mutter *Doh!* when you smacked yourself?

Thanks for the a.m. chuckle.

krw wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:20:36 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:31:04 -0500, Bob
wrote:

Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions,
please:

a. Just how "popular" is this stuff ? When used, or specified ?

Very. New construction, mostly.

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?

Evidently it's a lot cheaper. Otherwise it wouldn't be used.

c. Good for hot as well as cold service ?

Yes.

d. Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

Personally, I hate the stuff. I'd rather sweat copper than mess
with it. I have it in this house and hate the stuff.

Pros and cons, etc. ?

Small jobs are a PITA, compared to copper.

BTW: what's most common in new homes these days that do use
Copper; type k, l, or m ? On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?

My bet is 'k', only because of cost. I'd use 'l', but only because
the cost of materials isn't my primary motivator. Labor is a far
bigger issue and the labor is the same. I'm using 'l' for air in
the garage and shop.

'k' is not common. 'm' is the light stuff most commonly used, IIRC.

Now you got me thinking... I just checked the stuff I'm using. It's
marked "Type 1/2" L" in blue. IIRC the cheaper red stuff is type K.
The box stores sell a *lot* of it because it is somewhat cheaper. Do
I have that backwards?

The cheap stuff is type M. "K" is thicker than "L".

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:13:10 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:20:36 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:31:04 -0500, Bob
wrote:

Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions,
please:

a. Just how "popular" is this stuff ? When used, or specified ?

Very. New construction, mostly.

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?

Evidently it's a lot cheaper. Otherwise it wouldn't be used.

c. Good for hot as well as cold service ?

Yes.

d. Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

Personally, I hate the stuff. I'd rather sweat copper than mess
with it. I have it in this house and hate the stuff.

Pros and cons, etc. ?

Small jobs are a PITA, compared to copper.

BTW: what's most common in new homes these days that do use
Copper; type k, l, or m ? On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?

My bet is 'k', only because of cost. I'd use 'l', but only because
the cost of materials isn't my primary motivator. Labor is a far
bigger issue and the labor is the same. I'm using 'l' for air in
the garage and shop.

'k' is not common. 'm' is the light stuff most commonly used, IIRC.

Now you got me thinking... I just checked the stuff I'm using. It's
marked "Type 1/2" L" in blue. IIRC the cheaper red stuff is type K.
The box stores sell a *lot* of it because it is somewhat cheaper. Do
I have that backwards?

The cheap stuff is type M. "K" is thicker than "L".

Yes, I did get that backwards. Thank you.

No, I'm not a plumber. I only do it on the weekends and hate every
minute of it. That doesn't change the fact that I'd never use PEX, if
I had a choice.



Welcome to my world ggg. Around here, you can't use the thinner stuff
inside of walls, but it's approved for areas like basements where you can
easily access it. If you compare them, you find the L is much thicker than
the M, and unfortunately much more expensive.

The nice thing about running all of this copper everywhere is that I'll
have died of old age before it needs any maintenance

Oren wrote:
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:12:49 -0800 (PST), Evan
wrote:

The standard has become blue PEX tubing
for
cold and red PEX tubing for hot water...

That makes me laugh a bit.

Standing at the counter one day, telling the man I needed "red and
blue" PEX. He said he didn't have any red PEX. I was a PEX virgin.

A plumber guy at the end of the counter said to use white. Smacked
myself in the forehead. I extended both hot and cold five foot with
white lines (remember hot/cold sides).

It don't have to be red or blue.. white will do.

Did you remember to put a bit of red electrical tape around the hot water
feed so the chap coming behind you wouldn't get scalded?

On Feb 20, 1:38*am, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:12:49 -0800 (PST), Evan

wrote:
The standard has become blue PEX tubing
for
cold and red PEX tubing for hot water...

That makes me laugh a bit.

Standing at the counter one day, telling the man I needed "red and
blue" PEX. He said he didn't have any red PEX. *I was a PEX virgin.

A plumber guy at the end of the counter said to use white. Smacked
myself in the forehead. I extended both hot and cold five foot with
white lines (remember hot/cold sides).

It don't have to be red or blue.. white will do.


That red/blue PEX tubing convention is more of a way of idiot proofing
installation... Rather than pulling each tube individually, you would
pull both at once...

It helps for later, when all the walls are closed in to be sure that
what you think is the hot feed is really the hot feed and that the
pair of tubes hasn't gotten twisted up and swapped somewhere
along its route from manifold to fixture stub...

But if you want to use a bunch of white tubes, go nuts, using
PEX for water supply is not like doing heating loops, as hot
must feed hot and cold must feed cold... If you confuse one
end of a heating loop for the other it still forms a closed loop
under the floor... If you connect the wrong PEX tube to the
wrong manifold because they are poorly labeled or you can't
tell which one is the left one or right one up at the fixture
when you are down in the basement at the water manifold
hooking it up, that is why people use red PEX for hot and
blue PEX for cold...

~~ Evan

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:31:04 -0500, Bob wrote:

Hello,

Re PEX plastic piping for home usage.

Looked at several sites on, but still have a few basic questions, please:

a. Just how "popular" is this stuff ? When used, or specified ?

b. Compared to Copper piping for home usage, is it generally more
expensive or cheaper ? If more, why is it used (at all) ?

c. Good for hot as well as cold service ?

d. Would you use it in your home, or still prefer Copper ? Why ?

Pros and cons, etc. ?

BTW: what's most common in new homes these days that do use Copper;
type k, l, or m ? On "older" (e.g. 25-30 yr)homes ?

Much thanks,
Bob


If you got the tools and skills, go for it (PEX). I stick to
copper/soldering or braided hoses/compression fittings for just about
everything. Copper lasts and the choice for inside walls.

Yes it is a con for PEX, since rodents tend not to chew through copper
pipe, by comparison.

Have owned two homes, over TEN years of PEX and NO RODENT CHEWING

"mike" wrote in message
...
On Feb 19, 4:52 am, "Joe" wrote:
"mike" wrote in message

...

For those who can't figure out the cons:

Rodents love to chew PEX.

Rodent's love to chew. That's not a con of PEX, it's a con of having
rodents.

Yes it is a con for PEX, since rodents tend not to chew through copper
pipe, by comparison.

Softness in the face of rodent teeth is a problem.

but you don't avoid pex because you have rodents... you get rid of the
friggin rodents... the key here is prioritization.

"Joe" wrote:

-snip-
but you don't avoid pex because you have rodents... you get rid of the
friggin rodents... the key here is prioritization.


Good thing about your rodents [apparently] is-- They show up at your
house one day and announce themselves. "I'm about to destroy
whatever you have that will make my presence most unwelcome. Kill
me now- or I'll start eating your PEX."

Mine just show up and eat something. Then I kill them.

Jim

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:51:56 -0700, "Rudy"
wrote:

Yes it is a con for PEX, since rodents tend not to chew through copper
pipe, by comparison.

Have owned two homes, over TEN years of PEX and NO RODENT CHEWING

I've also owned two houses, over TWENTY FIVE years of copper (third
has PEX) and NO RODENT CHEWING. Of course, I don't put up with
rodents in the house and neither do the cats. ;-)