Hi,

I have hung BB so I can still choose b/w spackle and plaster.

My prospective cabinet maker told me that plaster is inherently uneven
and might require more scribing when installing.

Agree or disagree.

Thanks,

Sam

On Jan 12, 8:21*pm, Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

I have hung BB so I can still choose b/w spackle and plaster.

My prospective cabinet maker told me that plaster is inherently uneven
and might require more scribing when installing.

Agree or disagree.

That's a bit of an over-simplification. Both veneer plaster and
drywall are dependent on the underlying framing. Veneer plaster
allows marginally more correction than a drywall job. If you want
something straighter still, a full plaster job using screeds to
provide a flat, planar surface.

More to the point in my mind, is what exactly is the cabinet maker
saying? In any case a tight job requires scribing, so what is he
angling for - more money? That doesn't make a lot of sense unless the
wall is all over the place. The only real difference is in how much
does the cabinet maker need to allow for scribing, and what he is
relieving.

R

In article ,
says...
Hi,

I have hung BB so I can still choose b/w spackle and plaster.

My prospective cabinet maker told me that plaster is inherently uneven
and might require more scribing when installing.


Not sure what BB is, backer board? At any rate, are you proposing to
finish an entire wall with spackle? That would be very, very, unusual.

--
Dennis

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Jan 12, 8:21 pm, Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

I have hung BB so I can still choose b/w spackle and plaster.

My prospective cabinet maker told me that plaster is inherently uneven
and might require more scribing when installing.

Agree or disagree.

That's a bit of an over-simplification. Both veneer plaster and
drywall are dependent on the underlying framing. Veneer plaster
allows marginally more correction than a drywall job. If you want
something straighter still, a full plaster job using screeds to
provide a flat, planar surface.

More to the point in my mind, is what exactly is the cabinet maker
saying? In any case a tight job requires scribing, so what is he
angling for - more money? That doesn't make a lot of sense unless the
wall is all over the place. The only real difference is in how much
does the cabinet maker need to allow for scribing, and what he is
relieving.

R



Drywall is alot flatter than plaster because no matter how good the
plasterer is it will NEVER be as flat as the board is from the
factory....Besides , why in the world would pay premium price ( ATLEAST
twice as much) for plaster then cover it up with cabinets..Plus plaster will
take ALOT more time , makes a BIG mess and you have to wait till it's CURED
before priming and hanging cabinets...A week or 2 depending on
conditions...Listen to your contractor...He is right....

"DT" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Hi,

I have hung BB so I can still choose b/w spackle and plaster.

My prospective cabinet maker told me that plaster is inherently uneven
and might require more scribing when installing.


Not sure what BB is, backer board? At any rate, are you proposing to
finish an entire wall with spackle? That would be very, very, unusual.

--
Dennis




BB=Blue Board , ie. Plaster Board....Skim coating walls with joint compound
isn't that unusual...I do it occasionally...Sometimes it's just a wall that
is side lit by by the sun that shows everything and needs it and I have one
contractor that likes it and pays extra to get it..No worries about ANYTHING
showing..After the wall is finished coated as normal I skimcoat the whole
wall or ceiling twice and sand it....Really looks good too.....My house I
did the same...Poor mans plaster I call it...LOL...

On Jan 12, 11:06*pm, "benick" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Jan 12, 8:21 pm, Sam Takoy wrote:

Hi,

I have hung BB so I can still choose b/w spackle and plaster.

My prospective cabinet maker told me that plaster is inherently uneven
and might require more scribing when installing.

Agree or disagree.

*That's a bit of an over-simplification. *Both veneer plaster and
drywall are dependent on the underlying framing. *Veneer plaster
allows marginally more correction than a drywall job. *If you want
something straighter still, a full plaster job using screeds to
provide a flat, planar surface.

More to the point in my mind, is what exactly is the cabinet maker
saying? *In any case a tight job requires scribing, so what is he
angling for - more money? *That doesn't make a lot of sense unless the
wall is all over the place. *The only real difference is in how much
does the cabinet maker need to allow for scribing, and what he is
relieving.


Drywall is alot flatter than plaster because no matter how good the
plasterer is it will NEVER be as flat as the board is from the
factory....Besides , why in the world would pay premium price ( ATLEAST
twice as much) for plaster then cover it up with cabinets..Plus plaster will
take ALOT more time , makes a BIG mess and you have to wait till it's CURED
before priming and hanging cabinets...A week or 2 depending on
conditions...Listen to your contractor...He is right....

There's no doubt that the drywall sheet itself is flat, but since
veneer plaster is 1/8" or less, the veneer plaster surface won't be
way out of flat unless the plasterer is a total hackmeister. The
final product will depend as much on the cabinet maker's skill and
attention to detail as the wall surface he is scribing to.

From the cabinet maker's perspective it doesn't make a whole hell of a
lot of difference in time to scribe to pretty much any reasonably flat
surface. If the OP wants to insure a flat surface where the cabinetry
meets the wall, the cabinetry should be laid out on the wall surface
and a 4' screed should be used for the first coat of plaster (or
compound). That's the right way to get a tight fit with the least
amount of work.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Jan 12, 11:06 pm, "benick" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Jan 12, 8:21 pm, Sam Takoy wrote:

Hi,

I have hung BB so I can still choose b/w spackle and plaster.

My prospective cabinet maker told me that plaster is inherently uneven
and might require more scribing when installing.

Agree or disagree.

That's a bit of an over-simplification. Both veneer plaster and
drywall are dependent on the underlying framing. Veneer plaster
allows marginally more correction than a drywall job. If you want
something straighter still, a full plaster job using screeds to
provide a flat, planar surface.

More to the point in my mind, is what exactly is the cabinet maker
saying? In any case a tight job requires scribing, so what is he
angling for - more money? That doesn't make a lot of sense unless the
wall is all over the place. The only real difference is in how much
does the cabinet maker need to allow for scribing, and what he is
relieving.


Drywall is alot flatter than plaster because no matter how good the
plasterer is it will NEVER be as flat as the board is from the
factory....Besides , why in the world would pay premium price ( ATLEAST
twice as much) for plaster then cover it up with cabinets..Plus plaster
will
take ALOT more time , makes a BIG mess and you have to wait till it's
CURED
before priming and hanging cabinets...A week or 2 depending on
conditions...Listen to your contractor...He is right....

There's no doubt that the drywall sheet itself is flat, but since
veneer plaster is 1/8" or less, the veneer plaster surface won't be
way out of flat unless the plasterer is a total hackmeister. The
final product will depend as much on the cabinet maker's skill and
attention to detail as the wall surface he is scribing to.

From the cabinet maker's perspective it doesn't make a whole hell of a
lot of difference in time to scribe to pretty much any reasonably flat
surface. If the OP wants to insure a flat surface where the cabinetry
meets the wall, the cabinetry should be laid out on the wall surface
and a 4' screed should be used for the first coat of plaster (or
compound). That's the right way to get a tight fit with the least
amount of work.

R


One coat veneer plaster isn't even done around here by anyone but
hacks..Considering your do it right mantra I'm surprised you like it....A
true plaster job is basecoat and finish coat and it isn't even close to
being as flat as the board...You are wrong on this one Ric....You're making
it more complicated and EXPENSIVE than it needs to be...His contractor is
correct and he should listen to him...

In article ,
says...
"DT" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Hi,

I have hung BB so I can still choose b/w spackle and plaster.

My prospective cabinet maker told me that plaster is inherently uneven
and might require more scribing when installing.


Not sure what BB is, backer board? At any rate, are you proposing to
finish an entire wall with spackle? That would be very, very, unusual.


BB=Blue Board , ie. Plaster Board....Skim coating walls with joint compound
isn't that unusual...I do it occasionally...


Sure, I can see skimming a wall with joint compund. But that isn't spackling.
I guess the OP was using the term loosely

--
Dennis

On Jan 13, 1:01*am, "benick" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

...
On Jan 12, 11:06 pm, "benick" wrote:



"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Jan 12, 8:21 pm, Sam Takoy wrote:

Hi,

I have hung BB so I can still choose b/w spackle and plaster.

My prospective cabinet maker told me that plaster is inherently uneven
and might require more scribing when installing.

Agree or disagree.

That's a bit of an over-simplification. Both veneer plaster and
drywall are dependent on the underlying framing. Veneer plaster
allows marginally more correction than a drywall job. If you want
something straighter still, a full plaster job using screeds to
provide a flat, planar surface.

More to the point in my mind, is what exactly is the cabinet maker
saying? In any case a tight job requires scribing, so what is he
angling for - more money? That doesn't make a lot of sense unless the
wall is all over the place. The only real difference is in how much
does the cabinet maker need to allow for scribing, and what he is
relieving.

Drywall is alot flatter than plaster because no matter how good the
plasterer is it will NEVER be as flat as the board is from the
factory....Besides , why in the world would pay premium price ( ATLEAST
twice as much) for plaster then cover it up with cabinets..Plus plaster
will
take ALOT more time , makes a BIG mess and you have to wait till it's
CURED
before priming and hanging cabinets...A week or 2 depending on
conditions...Listen to your contractor...He is right....

There's no doubt that the drywall sheet itself is flat, but since
veneer plaster is 1/8" or less, the veneer plaster surface won't be
way out of flat unless the plasterer is a total hackmeister. *The
final product will depend as much on the cabinet maker's skill and
attention to detail as the wall surface he is scribing to.

From the cabinet maker's perspective it doesn't make a whole hell of a
lot of difference in time to scribe to pretty much any reasonably flat
surface. *If the OP wants to insure a flat surface where the cabinetry
meets the wall, the cabinetry should be laid out on the wall surface
and a 4' screed should be used for the first coat of plaster (or
compound). *That's the right way to get a tight fit with the least
amount of work.

R

One coat veneer plaster isn't even done around here by anyone but
hacks..Considering your do it right mantra I'm surprised you like it....A
true plaster job is basecoat and finish coat and it isn't even close to
being as flat as the board...You are wrong on this one Ric....You're making
it more complicated and EXPENSIVE than it needs to be...His contractor is
correct and he should listen to him...

Have you ever scribed cabinetry to a wall? To a brick wall? Stone
wall?

You are trying to make this a question about drywall, since that is
what you know. It's not. It's a question of what is involved in
scribing to a _relatively_ flat surface. Bottom line - essentially no
difference in scribing time fitting cabinetry to a typical drywall job
or a plaster wall (veneer, two coat, three coat, whatever).

You also are off on a number of other factors. A week or two for
painting veneer plaster? There is an increased waiting time prior to
painting, but it's more like two or three days unless you're in New
Orleans in the summer. Exaggerating to make a point doesn't make the
point. This from the National Gypsum web site:
"How long after the application of a gypsum veneer plaster must I wait
before painting can begin?
Under good drying conditions, veneer plaster may be painted 48 hours
after application. It is essential that veneer plaster be sound and
completely dry before painting. Alkali-resistant primers specifically
formulated for use over new veneer plaster will permit decorating with
oil or latex type paints.

Note: Conventional lath and plaster systems require a 30-day drying
time before painting."

I find it curious that you ignored my comment about using a screed to
level out the compound/plaster to straighten out the wall wherever the
cabinetry meets the wall. That is the best and easiest way to get the
wall dead flat where you need it.

You seem to be assuming that the wall framing is dead flat and
perfectly in plane. Here's a hint - it ain't. No such thing unless
someone took a power planer to the stud before the drywall went up.
Framing can easily be out 1/8" to 1/4" over 4', which is far more than
the variance caused by applying a veneer plaster or taped/floated/
mudded finish to drywall would ever be.

The OP is certainly talking about veneer plaster. Veneer plaster is
superior to a straight drywall/mud job for a number of reasons. Since
the OP already installed blue board, he's obviously leaning that way.
The only question he's asking is about the scribing, and I'm telling
him that his cabinet guy is making it sound more difficult than it is.

To the OP: post this on the rec.woodworking newsgroup and see what
cabinet people say about scribing. They're the ones you should be
asking.

R

On Jan 12, 8:21*pm, Sam Takoy wrote:
Hi,

I have hung BB so I can still choose b/w spackle and plaster.

My prospective cabinet maker told me that plaster is inherently uneven
and might require more scribing when installing.

Agree or disagree.

Thanks,

Sam

IF the framing is so out of whack this is something you have to worry
about then straighten the framing while you can.

Jimmie

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Jan 13, 1:01 am, "benick" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

...
On Jan 12, 11:06 pm, "benick" wrote:



"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Jan 12, 8:21 pm, Sam Takoy wrote:

Hi,

I have hung BB so I can still choose b/w spackle and plaster.

My prospective cabinet maker told me that plaster is inherently uneven
and might require more scribing when installing.

Agree or disagree.

That's a bit of an over-simplification. Both veneer plaster and
drywall are dependent on the underlying framing. Veneer plaster
allows marginally more correction than a drywall job. If you want
something straighter still, a full plaster job using screeds to
provide a flat, planar surface.

More to the point in my mind, is what exactly is the cabinet maker
saying? In any case a tight job requires scribing, so what is he
angling for - more money? That doesn't make a lot of sense unless the
wall is all over the place. The only real difference is in how much
does the cabinet maker need to allow for scribing, and what he is
relieving.

Drywall is alot flatter than plaster because no matter how good the
plasterer is it will NEVER be as flat as the board is from the
factory....Besides , why in the world would pay premium price ( ATLEAST
twice as much) for plaster then cover it up with cabinets..Plus plaster
will
take ALOT more time , makes a BIG mess and you have to wait till it's
CURED
before priming and hanging cabinets...A week or 2 depending on
conditions...Listen to your contractor...He is right....

There's no doubt that the drywall sheet itself is flat, but since
veneer plaster is 1/8" or less, the veneer plaster surface won't be
way out of flat unless the plasterer is a total hackmeister. The
final product will depend as much on the cabinet maker's skill and
attention to detail as the wall surface he is scribing to.

From the cabinet maker's perspective it doesn't make a whole hell of a
lot of difference in time to scribe to pretty much any reasonably flat
surface. If the OP wants to insure a flat surface where the cabinetry
meets the wall, the cabinetry should be laid out on the wall surface
and a 4' screed should be used for the first coat of plaster (or
compound). That's the right way to get a tight fit with the least
amount of work.

R

One coat veneer plaster isn't even done around here by anyone but
hacks..Considering your do it right mantra I'm surprised you like it....A
true plaster job is basecoat and finish coat and it isn't even close to
being as flat as the board...You are wrong on this one Ric....You're
making
it more complicated and EXPENSIVE than it needs to be...His contractor is
correct and he should listen to him...

Have you ever scribed cabinetry to a wall? To a brick wall? Stone
wall?

You are trying to make this a question about drywall, since that is
what you know. It's not. It's a question of what is involved in
scribing to a _relatively_ flat surface. Bottom line - essentially no
difference in scribing time fitting cabinetry to a typical drywall job
or a plaster wall (veneer, two coat, three coat, whatever).

You also are off on a number of other factors. A week or two for
painting veneer plaster? There is an increased waiting time prior to
painting, but it's more like two or three days unless you're in New
Orleans in the summer. Exaggerating to make a point doesn't make the
point. This from the National Gypsum web site:
"How long after the application of a gypsum veneer plaster must I wait
before painting can begin?
Under good drying conditions, veneer plaster may be painted 48 hours
after application. It is essential that veneer plaster be sound and
completely dry before painting. Alkali-resistant primers specifically
formulated for use over new veneer plaster will permit decorating with
oil or latex type paints.

Note: Conventional lath and plaster systems require a 30-day drying
time before painting."

I find it curious that you ignored my comment about using a screed to
level out the compound/plaster to straighten out the wall wherever the
cabinetry meets the wall. That is the best and easiest way to get the
wall dead flat where you need it.

You seem to be assuming that the wall framing is dead flat and
perfectly in plane. Here's a hint - it ain't. No such thing unless
someone took a power planer to the stud before the drywall went up.
Framing can easily be out 1/8" to 1/4" over 4', which is far more than
the variance caused by applying a veneer plaster or taped/floated/
mudded finish to drywall would ever be.

The OP is certainly talking about veneer plaster. Veneer plaster is
superior to a straight drywall/mud job for a number of reasons. Since
the OP already installed blue board, he's obviously leaning that way.
The only question he's asking is about the scribing, and I'm telling
him that his cabinet guy is making it sound more difficult than it is.

To the OP: post this on the rec.woodworking newsgroup and see what
cabinet people say about scribing. They're the ones you should be
asking.

R



Wall framing has nothing to do with scribing...HUMPS in the wall do..Be it a
veneer hackjob single coat or the REAL 2 coat system (Basecoat/Finishcoat
plaster)....No way in hell is single coat veneer superior to
drywall....Basecoat/finish coat is the best...Only hacks do single coat
veneer.....Your the one who's making it more complicated than it needs to
be...His contractor agrees with me as well and he should listen to
him...Unless you're gonna go do it for him and pay the extra to the
plasterer to **** around all day with with screeds and all the other
bull**** your spreading only to cover it up with cabinets..The studs being
out will only show on top , which you can't see and the bottom which will be
hidden by the back splash...It's the SIDES he will have to scribe if you get
the wall all humped out..It takes 1 or 2 weeks for 2 coat plaster to
cure....Quit while your ahead....You may know carpentry but you don't know
**** about drywall and plaster....

"DT" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
"DT" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Hi,

I have hung BB so I can still choose b/w spackle and plaster.

My prospective cabinet maker told me that plaster is inherently uneven
and might require more scribing when installing.


Not sure what BB is, backer board? At any rate, are you proposing to
finish an entire wall with spackle? That would be very, very, unusual.


BB=Blue Board , ie. Plaster Board....Skim coating walls with joint
compound
isn't that unusual...I do it occasionally...


Sure, I can see skimming a wall with joint compund. But that isn't
spackling.
I guess the OP was using the term loosely

--
Dennis


WTF are you babbling about...Spackling is just another word for mudding or
taping with joint compound..The term is commonly used by girls and people
who don't know any better...HTH...

On Jan 13, 9:35*am, "benick" wrote:

Wall framing has nothing to do with scribing...HUMPS in the wall do..Be it a
veneer hackjob single coat or the REAL 2 coat system (Basecoat/Finishcoat
plaster)....No way in hell is single coat veneer superior to
drywall....Basecoat/finish coat is the best...Only hacks do single coat
veneer.....Your the one who's making it more complicated than it needs to
be...His contractor agrees with me as well and he should listen to
him...Unless you're gonna go do it for him and pay the extra to the
plasterer to **** around all day with with screeds and all the other
bull**** your spreading only to cover it up with cabinets..The studs being
out will only show on top , which you can't see and the bottom which will be
hidden by the back splash...It's the SIDES he will have to scribe if you get
the wall all humped out..It takes 1 or 2 weeks for 2 coat plaster to
cure....Quit while your ahead....You may know carpentry but you don't know
**** about drywall and plaster....

1). Your . key seems to be stuck. You only need one at the end of a
sentence.
2). You just said that the wall framing has nothing to do with
scribing.
Scribing has everything to do with wall surface straightness.
You're advising the OP to go with a standard drywall finish.
Drywall cannot do anything but follow the framing.
Therefore framing straightness has everything to do with scribing
cabinetry, unless you're building out the wall surface - and you're
saying _not_ to do that.
3). The OP never said what type of cabinetry was being installed -
you seem to have assumed it was kitchen cabinetry. I didn't. If it
is a kitchen, the scribing issue may well be even less of an issue.
4). Since you've admitted you don't know WTF you're talking about in
scribing cabinetry to a wall, why don't you entertain me with another
WAG about how much of a time difference there will be between scribing
to a plastered wall versus standard drywall.
5). I'm saying that the time difference is negligible, that the OP's
cabinet guy is fishing for more money, and that even if the wall is
slightly out, either plaster or compound can easily take care of the
discrepancy where needed.

To sum up: you make bad assumptions and argue about the "right" way to
do stuff with which you have no experience.

If the OP wants to find out what the situation really is, all he has
to do is to put a 4' straightedge on the wall where the exposed edges
of the cabinetry will have to be scribed to the wall. Then he can
have an intelligent conversation with his cabinet guy (notice he said
prospective cabinet guy - maybe he should keep looking instead of
blindly accepting one guy's opinion).

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Jan 13, 9:35 am, "benick" wrote:

Wall framing has nothing to do with scribing...HUMPS in the wall do..Be it
a
veneer hackjob single coat or the REAL 2 coat system (Basecoat/Finishcoat
plaster)....No way in hell is single coat veneer superior to
drywall....Basecoat/finish coat is the best...Only hacks do single coat
veneer.....Your the one who's making it more complicated than it needs to
be...His contractor agrees with me as well and he should listen to
him...Unless you're gonna go do it for him and pay the extra to the
plasterer to **** around all day with with screeds and all the other
bull**** your spreading only to cover it up with cabinets..The studs being
out will only show on top , which you can't see and the bottom which will
be
hidden by the back splash...It's the SIDES he will have to scribe if you
get
the wall all humped out..It takes 1 or 2 weeks for 2 coat plaster to
cure....Quit while your ahead....You may know carpentry but you don't know
**** about drywall and plaster....

1). Your . key seems to be stuck. You only need one at the end of a
sentence.
2). You just said that the wall framing has nothing to do with
scribing.
Scribing has everything to do with wall surface straightness.
You're advising the OP to go with a standard drywall finish.
Drywall cannot do anything but follow the framing.
Therefore framing straightness has everything to do with scribing
cabinetry, unless you're building out the wall surface - and you're
saying _not_ to do that.
3). The OP never said what type of cabinetry was being installed -
you seem to have assumed it was kitchen cabinetry. I didn't. If it
is a kitchen, the scribing issue may well be even less of an issue.
4). Since you've admitted you don't know WTF you're talking about in
scribing cabinetry to a wall, why don't you entertain me with another
WAG about how much of a time difference there will be between scribing
to a plastered wall versus standard drywall.
5). I'm saying that the time difference is negligible, that the OP's
cabinet guy is fishing for more money, and that even if the wall is
slightly out, either plaster or compound can easily take care of the
discrepancy where needed.

To sum up: you make bad assumptions and argue about the "right" way to
do stuff with which you have no experience.

If the OP wants to find out what the situation really is, all he has
to do is to put a 4' straightedge on the wall where the exposed edges
of the cabinetry will have to be scribed to the wall. Then he can
have an intelligent conversation with his cabinet guy (notice he said
prospective cabinet guy - maybe he should keep looking instead of
blindly accepting one guy's opinion).

R



Since the OP has disappeared we will never know I guess...You still don't
know **** about drywall or spackle as you girls call it...When and IF the OP
shows up we will continue
this.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........................................