"The Ranger" wrote in message
. ..
Snip
..

My two-time experiences with McFeeleys has been very positive. Prices,
while generally higher, are not painful and the products that I've
purchased were exactly what I needed. Unlike the machine screws that I'd
purchased prior from OSH (a formerly GREAT hardware store but ruined by
Sears -- a curse from the gahds on that corporate bastion of greed and
averice) which sheered with the slightest pressure making a simple job
not, I'll order from McFeeleys when I'm able to plan a job out.

The Ranger


The screws I ordered from McFeeleys and had problems with were 1/8" machine
screws and that was 10+ years ago and they were not graded. When in doubt
give them a call, they will not steer you wrong. I did not need a quality
fastener at the time but was surprised that they were no better than the
typical no name Borg screws.

I do like McFeeleys, I have probably 2-3 thousand of their wood screws on
hand at any particular time.

MeFeeleys is generally considered a reputable source for fasteners, I
agree for wood screws and graded nuts and bolts however I have bought some
pretty cheesy ungraded machine screws from McFeeleys, I have had several
break from 100 pack box.

I had the same experience. I have never been disappointed by their regular
screws, but I did get a crappy box of dowel screws from them once. I called
them on it and they offered me the opportunity to return them at my expense.
( I was underwhelmed).

Buyer beware. Just because McFeeleys stocks it, it does not make it quality.

"evodawg" wrote in message
...
Ed Pawlowski wrote:


"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin
at
Home Depot.

Jon

Even better, don't buy fasteners at Home Depot. If you want quality, go
to an industrial supply house or order from McFeelys.com
I called McFeelys and all Fasteners they sell are made in CHINA


Which has been a fact for a very long time, maybe 10+ years. Still they
sell quality China screws. If everything from China was crap, there would
be more Americans manufacturing products.

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

I have had a lot of problem with Hillman screws and fasteners breaking
easily. HD has a lot of Hillman product on the shelf.

"StephenM" wrote in message
...

MeFeeleys is generally considered a reputable source for fasteners, I
agree for wood screws and graded nuts and bolts however I have bought
some pretty cheesy ungraded machine screws from McFeeleys, I have had
several break from 100 pack box.

I had the same experience. I have never been disappointed by their
regular screws, but I did get a crappy box of dowel screws from them once.
I called them on it and they offered me the opportunity to return them at
my expense. ( I was underwhelmed).

Buyer beware. Just because McFeeleys stocks it, it does not make it
quality.


Precicely, you can generally rest assured that if their fasteners claim to
be hardened or graded they will be good, if not, it will be iffy.

Swingman wrote in news:ZMidnVQ6K-
:

Leon wrote:

What is WTF? ;~)

Among other things, it's a blanket:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h05ZQ7WHw8Y


Now they have some thing where the the commercial mocks the WTF? blanket
about how the feet are not covered. This "better" one is closed at the
bottom. So basically this mutated WTF blanket is a kids indoor sleeping bag
with arms.

I had a similiar experience, with a Home Cheepo bolt.
Problem was, I was trying to atach the lower bracket of an
alternator, on my van. The bolt sheared off. I had not
torqued it very much. 3/8 drive wrench, no extender bar, and
not even much muscle power. Not with any real torque. I
decided to leave it there, and eventually junked the van.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jon Danniken" wrote in
message ...
I tightened up a 1/4" lag screw that I bought from Home
Depot earlier this
evening. It was screwed into 1.5" fir after pre-drilling
with a 1/8" pilot
hole.

After it bottomed out, I turned it just a little bit more,
holding a 3/8"
ratchet handle close to the shaft, not out on the handle. I
wasn't giving
it much torque, just making sure that it was secure, when it
turned to
butter.

It was less torque tha I have used in the past to tighten
drywall screws.

Here is the result:

http://i45.tinypic.com/35i981s.jpg

On the plus side, it was really easy to drill a little hole
in the piece
that is still left in the wood (the hole is for the EZ out).

I'm actually glad that this came apart on me; at least I
know to get some
halfway decent ones now before something failed with more
catastrophic
results.

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from
the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

Jon

On Dec 16, 9:59*am, evodawg wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"Jon Danniken" wrote in message

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

Even better, don't buy fasteners at Home Depot. *If you want quality, go
to an industrial supply house or order from McFeelys.com

I called McFeelys and all Fasteners they sell are made in CHINA

Most bicycles are made in Taiwan. Everything from the 59.99 bikes at
WalMart to high end carbon fiber racing bikes that the exotic-name-on-
the-label would never want you to know are made in China (either one).

In manufacturing it's pretty simple - you specify what you want, you
pay for it, you check for quality, and you get what you want.

If you're buying screws to send a message...well, that's not really
the issue for most. Your hundred bucks or two a year doesn't send
much of a message, and there are damn few alternatives anyway.

R

A squirt of vaseline or grease in the hole helps, a lot. I
have some old plastic syringes I keep filled with generic
vaseline "petroleum jelly" for threading in lags in moments
like this.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Leon" wrote in message
...


I first twisted off lag screws starting in 1979. Lag screws
in general are
not strong unless you get stainless steel.

IIRC I try to give to lag screws a polit hole size the size
of the body or a
bit larger.

Even a "hardened" square drive #14 screw which is .246"
thread diameter
requires a larger 5/32" pilot hole in soft woods.

Additionally you do not want to bottom out a lag screw, the
point on the end
helps guide not pull the screw into the wood.

So true. I've got a couple of such stores near me. But they
are hard to find, and often go out of business for lack of
customer support.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...


This isn't exactly news to anyone who's been involved in
home repair for any
length of time, you know.

You can get fasteners of significantly better quality, at a
lower price, from
any real hardware store. The category of real hardware
stores includes:
- Ace
- Tru-Value
- Do-it-Best
- any hardware store with worn wooden floors and a little
bell on the front
door that tinkles when you walk in, where any employees
under the age of
forty are the owner's grandchildren; sadly, these places are
getting harder
and harder to find.

This category does *not* include
- Home Depot
- Lowe's
- Menards
- Hechinger's
and similar places.

Ah dunno. Prolly one uh dem nawthun boy sayins.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
message ...


Got an actual hardware store in your town?

Proly not.
--
EA



WTF is a "proly"?

WTF, World Trade Foundation. Replaced WTC in 1991.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Leon" wrote in message
...


WTF is a "proly"?


Proly = Probably, What is WTF? ;~)

Leon wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , SMS
wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin
at
Home Depot.
Okay, then it's not just me that has that problem with lag bolts from
Home Depot. I've become anal about drilling pilot holes that are long
enough and large enough diameter to deal with these crappy lag bolts.

Where can you buy good quality lag bolts though?
Any real hardware store.


I keep seeing this answer.... what does that mean exactly? Not piling on
you but what exactly defines a "real" hardware store, and does that
guarantee that the "real" hardware store will also not have crap?

MeFeeleys is generally considered a reputable source for fasteners, I agree
for wood screws and graded nuts and bolts however I have bought some pretty
cheesy ungraded machine screws from McFeeleys, I have had several break
from 100 pack box.

I also agree that the big box chains are probably not the best source for
screws but if you buy name brand screws from those stores you are going to
get better quality. While I steer away from prepackaged plastic bags of
screws from those type stores I have never had a problem with larger bolts
and lag screws providing they had proper sized pilot screws.





In the little town I live in, it's "Fred's Bolts Nuts & Tools". Any
threaded fastener you want and more of high quality.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
A squirt of vaseline or grease in the hole helps, a lot. I
have some old plastic syringes I keep filled with generic
vaseline "petroleum jelly" for threading in lags in moments
like this.


I find it less trouble to just use the correct sized pilot hole.

wrote:
On Dec 16, 7:50 am, SMS wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.
Okay, then it's not just me that has that problem with lag bolts from
Home Depot. I've become anal about drilling pilot holes that are long
enough and large enough diameter to deal with these crappy lag bolts.

Where can you buy good quality lag bolts though?

McFeeley's is good.

Sounds like a store that sell adult........never mind.

TDD

On 12/16/2009 09:09, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Existential wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
Jon Danniken wrote:

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin
at Home Depot.

Okay, then it's not just me that has that problem with lag bolts from
Home Depot. I've become anal about drilling pilot holes that are long
enough and large enough diameter to deal with these crappy lag bolts.

Where can you buy good quality lag bolts though?


Got an actual hardware store in your town?

Proly not.
--
EA



WTF is a "proly"?


Someone who forgot they weren't "talking" to their teenage friends with
some form of instant messaging..

Leon wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , aemeijers
wrote:

Around here, Tractor Supply has pretty good fasteners, including
grade 8 if your function calls for that. Farmers don't like to do
the same repair job twice, I guess.

Of course not. It's like any other business: having machinery down
costs money. At harvest time, a down machine can cost _a lot_ of
money.

And there are liability issue concernes. A good mechanic will use
grade 8 or better so that when he is preplacing a bolt it is at least
as strong as the original. I was stocking grade 8, 30 years ago for
automotive repairs at an Olds dealership.

Be careful using Grade 8. They're strong but they're also brittle. Don't
use them for applications where there are likely to be shock loads.

"George" wrote in message
...
On 12/16/2009 09:09, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Existential wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
Jon Danniken wrote:

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk
bin
at Home Depot.

Okay, then it's not just me that has that problem with lag bolts from
Home Depot. I've become anal about drilling pilot holes that are long
enough and large enough diameter to deal with these crappy lag bolts.

Where can you buy good quality lag bolts though?


Got an actual hardware store in your town?

Proly not.
--
EA



WTF is a "proly"?


Someone who forgot they weren't "talking" to their teenage friends with
some form of instant messaging..

You mean, like, my BFFs?
--
EA

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

Proly not.
--
EA



WTF is a "proly"?


Proly = Probably, What is WTF? ;~)

I thought proly was short for proberbly.
--
EA

Leon wrote:
"StephenM" wrote in message
....

Buyer beware. Just because McFeeleys stocks it, it does not make it
quality.


Precicely, you can generally rest assured that if their fasteners claim to
be hardened or graded they will be good, if not, it will be iffy.

I don't recall who it was but McFeely's was bought by somebody and is
now run as a subsidiary...I think the expanded product line outside the
original focus on square-head and related wood screw products and the
range of grades stems from that change; it was after that the catalogs
started to grow in size.

--

On Dec 16, 9:25*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
wrote:
On Dec 16, 7:50 am, SMS wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.
Okay, then it's not just me that has that problem with lag bolts from
Home Depot. I've become anal about drilling pilot holes that are long
enough and large enough diameter to deal with these crappy lag bolts.

Where can you buy good quality lag bolts though?

McFeeley's is good.

Sounds like a store that sell adult........never mind.

Screws?

On 12/16/2009 09:44, evodawg wrote:
SMS wrote:

Jon Danniken wrote:

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin at
Home Depot.

Okay, then it's not just me that has that problem with lag bolts from
Home Depot. I've become anal about drilling pilot holes that are long
enough and large enough diameter to deal with these crappy lag bolts.

Where can you buy good quality lag bolts though?
I really doubt that you can these days since they're all made in CHINA. I
called one of the suppliers for a specialty screw and asked them about
where their products are made, you can guess what his reply was. He also
told me that there is not any fasteners made in the US anymore. Unless it's
made for the Military.

Unfortunately folks decided it was a good thing not to have
manufacturing and good jobs in the US so things are made in China.

Location of manufacture doesn't tell the whole story. As long as things
have been manufactured the buyer could specify they wanted a cheaper
version of something. Big box places maintain their profit by beating
suppliers to death (and driving them off shore) by demanding the lowest
possible price. Often that means the lowest possible quality.

There is no rocket science involved in making typical commodity
fasteners such as lag bolts. A manufacturer can easily make sure they
have the correct metal chemistry and use correct hardening methods. But
that costs money. Big box simply wants something that looks like a lag
bolt. A buyer can also specify they want an item that complies with
whatever standards are involved such as SAE. That costs more.

On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 07:40:24 -0500, aemeijers
wrote:

Around here, Tractor Supply has pretty good fasteners, including grade 8
if your function calls for that. Farmers don't like to do the same
repair job twice, I guess.
--

Same here, and TS sells their hardware by the pound. It's always
where I go first. I just bought a boatload of grade 2 & 5 carriage
bolts, nuts, washers, etc. for around $8 ($1.99/lb). The grade 8
are a little more expensive if you need them, but not unreasonable.

I was at Lowes later for something else, so just did a quick double
check to see how far off they were. Grade 1 bolts alone were nearly
$15.

8 (1/2 x4) = $8.80 ($1.10 each).
4 (1/2 x6) = $6.00 ($1.50 each).

The irony is that I'm using a plan I found at Lowes.

Leon wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , SMS
wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk
bin at
Home Depot.

Okay, then it's not just me that has that problem with lag bolts
from Home Depot. I've become anal about drilling pilot holes that
are long enough and large enough diameter to deal with these crappy
lag bolts.

Where can you buy good quality lag bolts though?

Any real hardware store.


I keep seeing this answer.... what does that mean exactly? Not
piling on you but what exactly defines a "real" hardware store, and
does that guarantee that the "real" hardware store will also not have
crap?

MeFeeleys is generally considered a reputable source for fasteners, I
agree for wood screws and graded nuts and bolts however I have bought
some pretty cheesy ungraded machine screws from McFeeleys, I have
had several break from 100 pack box.

I also agree that the big box chains are probably not the best source
for screws but if you buy name brand screws from those stores you are
going to get better quality. While I steer away from prepackaged
plastic bags of screws from those type stores I have never had a
problem with larger bolts and lag screws providing they had proper
sized pilot screws.

"Real hardware store" is too fuzzy a concept to be useful. OLD hardware
store would be a better bet--one that has been around since before HD--at
least that's a well defined term. OTOH, does Rocky's Ace, founded 1926,
really stock better fasteners than HD? They do stock a wider range of
specialty fasteners, that I'll grant them, but are their packaged fasteners
really any better?

Most localities in the US have within reasonable driving distance a
Fastenal. In any metropolitan area there should be a section in the Yellow
Pages for "fasteners" or "screws" or "bolts". Near the water in any city
with a harbor there will be marine hardware places that have a good stock of
corrosion resistant fasteners--alas the packages come with a picture of a
boat on them so they'll cost twice as much as the same fastener without the
picture of a boat. Near any major airport there will be an aircraft
hardware place--they'll have fasteners made to military specification that
are very high quality, but they won't be cheap.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
A squirt of vaseline or grease in the hole helps, a lot. I
have some old plastic syringes I keep filled with generic
vaseline "petroleum jelly" for threading in lags in moments
like this.

My understanding is that large Mormon families buy vaseline by the pallet.
Generic, of course.
--
EA


--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Leon" wrote in message
...


I first twisted off lag screws starting in 1979. Lag screws
in general are
not strong unless you get stainless steel.

IIRC I try to give to lag screws a polit hole size the size
of the body or a
bit larger.

Even a "hardened" square drive #14 screw which is .246"
thread diameter
requires a larger 5/32" pilot hole in soft woods.

Additionally you do not want to bottom out a lag screw, the
point on the end
helps guide not pull the screw into the wood.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
A squirt of vaseline or grease in the hole helps, a lot. I
have some old plastic syringes I keep filled with generic
vaseline "petroleum jelly" for threading in lags in moments
like this.


I use saw wax. Stick a drill bit or screw in it and the little
bit of lube will help it do its job. It has many uses.

http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G4413-.../dp/B0000DD2JY

TDD

In article , "Leon" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , SMS
wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin
at
Home Depot.

Okay, then it's not just me that has that problem with lag bolts from
Home Depot. I've become anal about drilling pilot holes that are long
enough and large enough diameter to deal with these crappy lag bolts.

Where can you buy good quality lag bolts though?

Any real hardware store.


I keep seeing this answer.... what does that mean exactly? Not piling on
you but what exactly defines a "real" hardware store, and does that
guarantee that the "real" hardware store will also not have crap?

Ace. Tru-Value. Do-it-Best. Any hardware store with old wooden floors. The
quality of the fasteners is markedly higher at any of those places, and the
selection usually much wider, than at any of the big-box stores.

"evodawg" wrote in message
Even better, don't buy fasteners at Home Depot. If you want quality, go
to an industrial supply house or order from McFeelys.com

I called McFeelys and all Fasteners they sell are made in CHINA

That in and of itself does not mean they are bad. China is very capable of
making high quality parts if you are willing to pay for it. McFeelys has
been very aware and has better specifications better than other places.

"George" wrote in message
...
On 12/16/2009 09:44, evodawg wrote:
SMS wrote:

Jon Danniken wrote:

Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk bin
at
Home Depot.

Okay, then it's not just me that has that problem with lag bolts from
Home Depot. I've become anal about drilling pilot holes that are long
enough and large enough diameter to deal with these crappy lag bolts.

Where can you buy good quality lag bolts though?
I really doubt that you can these days since they're all made in CHINA. I
called one of the suppliers for a specialty screw and asked them about
where their products are made, you can guess what his reply was. He also
told me that there is not any fasteners made in the US anymore. Unless
it's
made for the Military.

Unfortunately folks decided it was a good thing not to have manufacturing
and good jobs in the US so things are made in China.

Location of manufacture doesn't tell the whole story. As long as things
have been manufactured the buyer could specify they wanted a cheaper
version of something. Big box places maintain their profit by beating
suppliers to death (and driving them off shore) by demanding the lowest
possible price. Often that means the lowest possible quality.

There is no rocket science involved in making typical commodity fasteners
such as lag bolts. A manufacturer can easily make sure they have the
correct metal chemistry and use correct hardening methods. But that costs
money. Big box simply wants something that looks like a lag bolt. A buyer
can also specify they want an item that complies with whatever standards
are involved such as SAE. That costs more.

And I suspect the irony to this is that now that HD et al have ravaged the
marketplace, when you DO want something of higher quality or un-BigBox, it
will cost MUCH more than it would have had HD not raped, pillaged, and
plundered the industry.
--
EA

"JustTom" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 07:40:24 -0500, aemeijers
wrote:

Around here, Tractor Supply has pretty good fasteners, including grade 8
if your function calls for that. Farmers don't like to do the same
repair job twice, I guess.
--

Same here, and TS sells their hardware by the pound. It's always
where I go first. I just bought a boatload of grade 2 & 5 carriage
bolts, nuts, washers, etc. for around $8 ($1.99/lb). The grade 8
are a little more expensive if you need them, but not unreasonable.

I was at Lowes later for something else, so just did a quick double
check to see how far off they were. Grade 1 bolts alone were nearly
$15.

8 (1/2 x4) = $8.80 ($1.10 each).
4 (1/2 x6) = $6.00 ($1.50 each).

The irony is that I'm using a plan I found at Lowes.

Indeed, the mark of a good hardware store is where you CAN by stuff by the
pound.
--
EA

I like my toys. I use cow teat syringes, given me by a farm
boy I knew when I was in college.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote
in message
...
A squirt of vaseline or grease in the hole helps, a lot. I
have some old plastic syringes I keep filled with generic
vaseline "petroleum jelly" for threading in lags in
moments
like this.


I find it less trouble to just use the correct sized pilot
hole.

I thing Mr. McFeeley was a character on Mr. Rogers
Neighborhood. I had the same thoughts back then.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote
in message ...

McFeeley's is good.

Sounds like a store that sell adult........never mind.

TDD

J. Clarke wrote:

Leon wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , aemeijers
wrote:

Around here, Tractor Supply has pretty good fasteners, including
grade 8 if your function calls for that. Farmers don't like to do
the same repair job twice, I guess.

Of course not. It's like any other business: having machinery down
costs money. At harvest time, a down machine can cost _a lot_ of
money.

And there are liability issue concernes. A good mechanic will use
grade 8 or better so that when he is preplacing a bolt it is at least
as strong as the original. I was stocking grade 8, 30 years ago for
automotive repairs at an Olds dealership.

Be careful using Grade 8. They're strong but they're also brittle. Don't
use them for applications where there are likely to be shock loads.
You mean like Cylinder Heads?
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

Stormin Mormon wrote:

A squirt of vaseline or grease in the hole helps, a lot. I
have some old plastic syringes I keep filled with generic
vaseline "petroleum jelly" for threading in lags in moments
like this.

Bar soap works well tooooo.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/

"Steve B" wrote in message
...


WTF is a "proly"?

New to Usenet, huh?


No. Just being a pain in the neck. :-)

On Dec 16, 7:57*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
.... The category of real hardware stores includes:
...
- any hardware store with worn wooden floors and a little bell on the front
door that tinkles when you walk in, where any employees under the age of
forty are the owner's grandchildren; sadly, these places are getting harder
and harder to find.

I grew up in a small town in Southern Oklahoma. We had a "real"
hardware store on Main Street. Locally owned, at least 3
generations. Everybody had gone to school with at least one of the
Stolfa kids. Didn't look like much from the front. When you walked
in the front door, it had one of those little "tinkle" bells on a
spring at the top. Hardwood floors about 100 years old that creaked
as you walked across them. You could get help, advise (and you could
rely on it being accurate), or just opinions about everything from the
wether to the next local or college football game. The smell varied
as you walked to different parts of the store; a chemical-fertilizer
smell was predominant, with paint and varnish in one corner, a greasy-
oily-gasoline smell over by the lawnmowers and garden machinery. They
had some of everything, nuts and bolts to gaskets for pressure
cookers, I even bought asbestos sheets to fix a space heater. I asked
one of the guys once if they had a molasses gate, and without a blink,
he asked "what size do you need?".

Then WalMart came to town. The manager complained that the high
quality cutlery he carried cost more from his distributor than the
most expensive stuff WalMart carried at retail. They just couldn't
compete, and when WallyWorld put in a Super Store, it was the final
nail in the coffin. I really hated to see them go. This was repeated
in several other locally owned businesses, from stationary stores, to
small sporting goods, to auto parts. We had a family-owned auto
repair shop. We finally closed after almost 20 years. The folks that
bought us out made it for another 3 years.

On Dec 16, 12:16*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
Be careful what you build with the fasteners you buy from the bulk
bin at
Home Depot.

Any true craftsman examines the use that the fastener or part will be
subjected to, then adjusts the quality or grade of the part. *It is common
practice in automotive where in some applications, a harder stronger grade
of fastener is required.

There is not a thing wrong with the soft steel flimsy stuff they sell at HD.
The fault lies in the fact that you used it incorrectly. *1/4" lag bolts
have a very low twist off pressure. *But now you know that. *How is this
going to affect your future purchases? *How is this going to affect whether
or not you drill a pilot hole?

This is YOUR fault, and no one else's. *Home Depot sells a lot of crap, but
if you know that going in, you don't put a cheater pipe on it during
install.

It's very odd that you quote someone, omit the attribution, and leave
out ALL of the pertinent stuff that completely refutes your diatribe
and take a cheap shot at someone's craftsmanship. I'm afraid you've
failed Posting 101 for the semester. Here's the OP's original:

On Dec 16, 3:21 am, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
I tightened up a 1/4" lag screw that I bought from Home Depot earlier this
evening. It was screwed into 1.5" fir after pre-drilling with a 1/8" pilot
hole.

After it bottomed out, I turned it just a little bit more, holding a 3/8"
ratchet handle close to the shaft, not out on the handle. I wasn't giving
it much torque, just making sure that it was secure, when it turned to
butter.

It was less torque tha I have used in the past to tighten drywall screws.

Isn't that curious? He used a small ratchet, choked up on the handle,
and drilled a pilot hole. What are you suggesting he did wrong -
forget to pray?

R

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
..
Even the parking at HD is ill-thought out.
--
That varies from store to store. The one closest to me is quite good as for
layout. What is a PIA is that parking spaces have been getting smaller and
smaller.When you pull in to a parking spot, in a Subaru Impreza, and have to
be careful not to hit the car next to you with your door as you get out,
it's getting a bit tight. The spacing between rows is getting smaller too.
In my F250, I have to park out in "no mans land". I can see the day when it
will be impractical to park anything larger than a motorized skateboard.

On 2009-12-16, The Ranger wrote:

My two-time experiences with McFeeleys...

Hey Range! I didn't know you could drive a nail.

nb

On Dec 16, 10:29*am, "'lektric dan"
wrote:
On Dec 16, 7:57*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:

.... The category of real hardware stores includes:
...
- any hardware store with worn wooden floors and a little bell on the front
door that tinkles when you walk in, where any employees under the age of
forty are the owner's grandchildren; sadly, these places are getting harder
and harder to find.

I grew up in a small town in Southern Oklahoma. *We had a "real"
hardware store on Main Street. *Locally owned, at least 3
generations. *Everybody had gone to school with at least one of the
Stolfa kids. *Didn't look like much from the front. *When you walked
in the front door, it had one of those little "tinkle" bells on a
spring at the top. *Hardwood floors about 100 years old that creaked
as you walked across them. *You could get help, advise (and you could
rely on it being accurate), or just opinions about everything from the
wether to the next local or college football game. *The smell varied
as you walked to different parts of the store; a chemical-fertilizer
smell was predominant, with paint and varnish in one corner, a greasy-
oily-gasoline smell over by the lawnmowers and garden machinery. *They
had some of everything, nuts and bolts to gaskets for pressure
cookers, I even bought asbestos sheets to fix a space heater. *I asked
one of the guys once if they had a molasses gate, and without a blink,
he asked "what size do you need?".

Then WalMart came to town. *The manager complained that the high
quality cutlery he carried cost more from his distributor than the
most expensive stuff WalMart carried at retail. *They just couldn't
compete, and when WallyWorld put in a Super Store, it was the final
nail in the coffin. *I really hated to see them go. *This was repeated
in several other locally owned businesses, from stationary stores, to
small sporting goods, to auto parts. *We had a family-owned auto
repair shop. *We finally closed after almost 20 years. *The folks that
bought us out made it for another 3 years.

So who is to "blame"? Walmart or the consumers who demanded a cheaper
knife?