Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with the bank
after we walk out?

Thanks

Steve wrote:
Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with the bank
after we walk out?

Thanks



On the slight chance this isn't a troll, yes, there is an issue.
Anything attached to the house is considered a fixture, part of the real
property, and belongs to the lien holder. If you added an electric
opener, you might be able to take that, but to leave a gaping opening
will no doubt **** off the bank, and could make them more likely to
remember to totally trash your credit for walking away. If you HAVE to
walk away from the house, best to be up-front about it with the bank,
keep them informed of the schedule, leave the place clean and lockable,
and drop off the keys on the way out of town. Ask them what they want
you to do with the utilities- switch them off, or let the bank switch
the billing to their in-house or outsourced people that take care of
bank-owned properties. If you live where it freezes, and you turn off
the heat, and the pipes burst and cause a flood, the bank will not be happy.

--
aem sends...

Steve wrote:

Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with the bank
after we walk out?

Why not ask the bank or your lawyer? Will you be putting back the door
that was there when you moved in? Will you also be taking any roof
shingles, bathroom tiles, or plumbing fixtures that you might have
replaced during your stay in the house?

Folks, I think this is a good example of why trying to make everybody a
home "owner" was such a bad idea.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am
selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which
I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with the
bank
after we walk out?

Thanks

Yes, as best it would be negligence on your part to leave the opening.
Could be much worse so consult a lawyer before you take the door. For the
few buck you may get, a law suit or even a criminal charge is not worth it.

On Dec 13, 5:44*pm, Steve wrote:
Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which I
paid for about over two years ago. *Is there any legal issure with the bank
after we walk out?

Thanks

A garage door is not personal property once it is attached to the
house. Some non-permanent fixtures like drapes can be removed with
approval of the owner but I'm sure you would be liable if you removed
the garage door.

Steve wrote:
Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with the bank
after we walk out?

Thanks



why would you put on a garage door if you can't pay the mortgage.
mortgage comes first.

On Dec 13, 6:13*pm, (Neill Massello) wrote:

Folks, I think this is a good example of why trying to make everybody a
home "owner" was such a bad idea.

My thoughts too. "Walking out" also does not dismiss debts like
mortgage, home loans or liens.

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:14:02 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

Thanks, everyone for your input. It's not for a few bucks, nor do we care of our
credit either. Before we decided to walk out, we tried to talk to the bank, they
either are not interested or do they care. They make it impossible to
communicate with them. So why should we care now? Don't forget they are making
tons of $$$$ and paying off the TARP so their Managers or whatever get huge
bonuses and the Obama's administration is full of Wall Streets greedy lobbyists
and tax cheaters. Where are the CHANGES?


"Steve" wrote in message
...

Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am
selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which
I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with the
bank
after we walk out?

Thanks

Yes, as best it would be negligence on your part to leave the opening.
Could be much worse so consult a lawyer before you take the door. For the
few buck you may get, a law suit or even a criminal charge is not worth it.

Steve wrote:


Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with the bank
after we walk out?


My legal advice would be to see a professional. [lawyer- not
psychiatrist, necessarily]

It could turn out ok if the bank has been as uncooperative as you say.
Hopefully you'll get a judge as agreeable as this one on Long Island,
NY-
http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/20...ilys-mortgage/

He is quoted in his decision;
“since February 24, 2009 (and perhaps earlier) has been and is
inequitable, unconscionable, vexatious and opprobrious.”

Sent me to the dictionary- but they are all in there.

You've got a hard row to hoe no matter what you do. don't make it
worse and go on advice you get on Usenet. If you can't afford a
lawyer find out how to get free *real* legal advice. It is out there.

Jim

"Steve" wrote in message
...

Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am
selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which
I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with the
bank
after we walk out?

Thanks



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/CHATTEL

Steve wrote in
:


Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am
selling everything that can be remove and one of the item is the
garage door which I paid for about over two years ago. Is there any
legal issure with the bank after we walk out?

Thanks




I totally remodeled the house I am in. If I were in your shoes can I
take?:

The exterior paint
trimboards
roof vents
lattice
4x4 posts
interior paint
interior lights
two prehung entry doors
carpet
vinyl
tiles
ac unit
furnace
ductwork
wiring
outlets
bathroom ceiling
dishwasher
garbage disposal
drainpipes for all sinks
sink fixtures
....plenty more


How is this any different than garage doors?

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:44:02 -0800, Steve
wrote:


Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with the bank
after we walk out?

Thanks



How old are you?!

Steve wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:14:02 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

Thanks, everyone for your input. It's not for a few bucks, nor do we
care of our credit either. Before we decided to walk out, we tried to
talk to the bank, they either are not interested or do they care.
They make it impossible to communicate with them. So why should we
care now? Don't forget they are making tons of $$$$ and paying off
the TARP so their Managers or whatever get huge bonuses and the
Obama's administration is full of Wall Streets greedy lobbyists and
tax cheaters. Where are the CHANGES?

You say you don't care about your credit, so where are you planning on
living after you leave. Your credit rating dictates everything from the cost
of your car insurance, acceptance by a landlord for rental or any future
mortgages.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:44:02 -0800, Steve
wrote:


Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am
selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which
I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with the
bank
after we walk out?

Thanks



How old are you?!

Not old enough to own a house apparently.

Steve wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:14:02 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

Thanks, everyone for your input. It's not for a few bucks, nor do we care of our
credit either. Before we decided to walk out, we tried to talk to the bank, they
either are not interested or do they care. They make it impossible to
communicate with them. So why should we care now? Don't forget they are making
tons of $$$$ and paying off the TARP so their Managers or whatever get huge
bonuses and the Obama's administration is full of Wall Streets greedy lobbyists
and tax cheaters. Where are the CHANGES?

Might change when folks carry only affordable debt and don't buy doors
for homes they can't afford to pay for.

President O Debacle wrote in
:

Steve wrote:
Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am
selling everything that can be remove and one of the item is the
garage door which I paid for about over two years ago. Is there any
legal issure with the bank after we walk out?

Thanks



why would you put on a garage door if you can't pay the mortgage.
mortgage comes first.


Very good point.

Wonder if it was put on plastic that was also defaulted on.

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:30:45 -0800, Steve
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:14:02 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

Thanks, everyone for your input. It's not for a few bucks, nor do we care of our
credit either. Before we decided to walk out, we tried to talk to the bank, they
either are not interested or do they care. They make it impossible to
communicate with them. So why should we care now? Don't forget they are making
tons of $$$$ and paying off the TARP so their Managers or whatever get huge
bonuses and the Obama's administration is full of Wall Streets greedy lobbyists
and tax cheaters. Where are the CHANGES?

ACORN may be able to help.

EXT wrote:

You say you don't care about your credit, so where are you planning on
living after you leave. Your credit rating dictates everything from the
cost of your car insurance, acceptance by a landlord for rental or any
future mortgages.

Don't potential employers also run credit checks and such?

Red Green wrote:
President O Debacle wrote in
:

Steve wrote:
Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am
selling everything that can be remove and one of the item is the
garage door which I paid for about over two years ago. Is there any
legal issure with the bank after we walk out?

Thanks



why would you put on a garage door if you can't pay the mortgage.
mortgage comes first.


Very good point.

Wonder if it was put on plastic that was also defaulted on.

is this a great country or what?

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:00:23 -0600, Red Green
wrote:

I totally remodeled the house I am in. If I were in your shoes can I
take?:

The exterior paint
trimboards
roof vents
lattice
4x4 posts
interior paint
interior lights
two prehung entry doors
carpet
vinyl
tiles
ac unit
furnace
ductwork
wiring
outlets
bathroom ceiling
dishwasher
garbage disposal
drainpipes for all sinks
sink fixtures
...plenty more


How is this any different than garage doors?

THe only thing I see a problem with you taking is the bathroom ceiling
and the plenty more. I don't have any of them plenty mores. Were
they expensive?

On the other hand, if you have installed the rest of those items then
you just screwed the pooch. They'll have to stay along with the
plenty mores.

Are those plenty mores available in different colors?

Gordon Shumway

Our Constitution needs to be used less as a shield
for the guilty and more as a sword for the victim.

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:30:45 -0800, Steve
wrote:

Thanks, everyone for your input. It's not for a few bucks, nor do we care of our
credit either. Before we decided to walk out, we tried to talk to the bank, they
either are not interested or do they care. They make it impossible to
communicate with them. So why should we care now? Don't forget they are making
tons of $$$$ and paying off the TARP so their Managers or whatever get huge
bonuses and the Obama's administration is full of Wall Streets greedy lobbyists
and tax cheaters. Where are the CHANGES?

Frankly, folks here are not interested in your politics and views. You
have a moral obligation to pay your debit.

STOP blaming everything on your failure.

One day you think you can sleep better, because you took a garage
door?!

Gordon Shumway wrote in
:

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:00:23 -0600, Red Green
wrote:

I totally remodeled the house I am in. If I were in your shoes can I
take?:

The exterior paint
trimboards
roof vents
lattice
4x4 posts
interior paint
interior lights
two prehung entry doors
carpet
vinyl
tiles
ac unit
furnace
ductwork
wiring
outlets
bathroom ceiling
dishwasher
garbage disposal
drainpipes for all sinks
sink fixtures
...plenty more


How is this any different than garage doors?

THe only thing I see a problem with you taking is the bathroom ceiling
and the plenty more. I don't have any of them plenty mores. Were
they expensive?

19.95 + p&h


On the other hand, if you have installed the rest of those items then
you just screwed the pooch. They'll have to stay along with the
plenty mores.

Are those plenty mores available in different colors?

Yes. White, avocado green, harvest gold and coppertone.


Gordon Shumway

Our Constitution needs to be used less as a shield
for the guilty and more as a sword for the victim.

On Dec 13, 4:44*pm, Steve wrote:
Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which I
paid for about over two years ago. *Is there any legal issure with the bank
after we walk out?

Thanks

You are a genuine ass, just full of good Karma. Where does the new
door go, in your new cave I hope. So put back the old one scrooge.

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 19:41:49 -0600, Red Green
wrote:

Gordon Shumway wrote in
:


How is this any different than garage doors?

THe only thing I see a problem with you taking is the bathroom ceiling
and the plenty more. I don't have any of them plenty mores. Were
they expensive?

19.95 + p&h


On the other hand, if you have installed the rest of those items then
you just screwed the pooch. They'll have to stay along with the
plenty mores.

Are those plenty mores available in different colors?

Yes. White, avocado green, harvest gold and coppertone.


Gordon Shumway



Avocado green! Holy ****! I do have some plenty mores.

Gordon Shumway

Our Constitution needs to be used less as a shield
for the guilty and more as a sword for the victim.

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:44:02 -0800, Steve
wrote:


Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with the bank
after we walk out?

Thanks


Anything that is fastened down is PART OF THE HOUSE - removing it is
theft.

I am not sure, but I think that California is one of only a few states that
do not permit lenders to get a deficiency judgment against the debtor after
a foreclosure on a primary residence mortgage. If that is correct, the bank
cannot come after you for the difference between what they get from the
Sheriff's sale or foreclosure and the actual balance due on the mortgage.

About the garage door..., I think that would be considered part of the
structure of the building, just like the walls,ceilings, floors, etc. would
be. If so, the bank could probably come after you for taking the garage
door, just like they could if you took a wall, ceiling, or floor. There is
a technique that some investors use called "component depreciation" where
they can legally depreciate non-structure items (toilets, gutters,
downspouts, etc.) over a shorter term on their tax returns -- then they
depreciate the rest of the structure over 27 years. But, I think garage
doors may not be one of the components that can be depreciated over a
shorter term than the structure itself.

Since the house is apparently upside on the mortgage, and you probably have
other dischargeable debts, have you looked into just filing a Chapter 7
bankruptcy? Many (most?) bankruptcy attorneys provide a free initial
consultation. You may want to do 2 or 3 such consultations before deciding
what your best options are.

There is a Yahoo Group called Bankruptcy_Talk that you may want to join and
post your questions there.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am
selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which
I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with the
bank
after we walk out?

Thanks

Jay-T wrote:

I am not sure, but I think that California is one of only a few states that
do not permit lenders to get a deficiency judgment against the debtor after
a foreclosure on a primary residence mortgage. If that is correct, the bank
cannot come after you for the difference between what they get from the
Sheriff's sale or foreclosure and the actual balance due on the mortgage.


According to this article California IS one of the few states that
limits deficiency judgments.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...112504186.html

Excerpt 1:

"[U of Arizona law professor, Brent T.] White argues that far more of
the estimated 15 million American homeowners who are underwater on their
mortgages should stiff their lenders and take a hike.

"Doing so, he suggests, could save some of them hundreds of thousands of
dollars that they 'have no reasonable prospect of recouping' in the
years ahead. Plus the penalties are nowhere near as painful or
long-lasting as they might assume.

" 'Homeowners should be walking away in droves,' according to White.
'But they aren't. And it's not because the financial costs of
foreclosure outweigh the benefits.' Sure, credit scores get whacked when
you walk away, he acknowledges. But as long as you stay current with
other creditors, 'one can have a good credit rating again -- meaning
above 660 -- within two years after a foreclosure.'

"Better yet, you can default 'strategically.' Buy all the major items
you'll need for the next couple of years -- a new car, even a new house
-- just before you pull the plug on your current mortgage lender.

" 'Most individuals should be able to plan in advance for a few years of
limited credit,' White said, with minimal disruptions to their
lifestyles."

Excerpt 2:

"The main point, [White] says, is that too often people's emotions get
in the way of clear financial thinking about mortgages, turning them
into what he calls 'woodheads' -- 'individuals who choose not to act in
their own self-interest.' Most owners are too worried about feelings of
shame and embarrassment following a foreclosure, and ignore the powerful
financial reasons for going through with it, he said.

"Buttressing these emotions is a system that White labels 'the social
control of the housing crisis' -- pressures and messages continually
sent to consumers by the 'social control agents,' namely banks,
government and the media. The mantra these agents -- all the way up to
President Obama -- pound into owners' heads, White says, is that
'voluntarily defaulting on a mortgage is immoral.'

"Yet there is an inherent imbalance in the borrower-lender relationship
that makes this morality message unfair to consumers: Banks set the
rules during the housing boom, handing out home loans with no down
payments, no income checks and inflated appraisals. Now that property
values have dropped 20 to 50 percent in many areas, banks have been slow
to modify troubled mortgages and reluctant to reduce principal debts.

"Only when homeowners cut through the emotional fog and default
strategically in large numbers, White argues, will this inequitable
situation be seriously addressed.

"How does White's 52-page manifesto go over with mortgage lenders?
Predictably, not well."

Steve wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:14:02 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

Thanks, everyone for your input. It's not for a few bucks, nor do we
care of our credit either. Before we decided to walk out, we tried to
talk to the bank, they either are not interested or do they care.
They make it impossible to communicate with them. So why should we
care now?

Because you entered into a contract with them.

I'm really fed up with people like you...people who feel no obligation to be
responsible...people who think only of themselves...people who stick
everyone else with additional debt because they are too childish to honor
their obligations.

The fact that you want to rip off (steal) a garage door speaks volumes.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Red Green wrote:
Gordon Shumway wrote in
:

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:00:23 -0600, Red Green
wrote:

I totally remodeled the house I am in. If I were in your shoes can I
take?:

The exterior paint
trimboards
roof vents
lattice
4x4 posts
interior paint
interior lights
two prehung entry doors
carpet
vinyl
tiles
ac unit
furnace
ductwork
wiring
outlets
bathroom ceiling
dishwasher
garbage disposal
drainpipes for all sinks
sink fixtures
...plenty more


How is this any different than garage doors?

THe only thing I see a problem with you taking is the bathroom
ceiling and the plenty more. I don't have any of them plenty mores.
Were they expensive?

19.95 + p&h


On the other hand, if you have installed the rest of those items then
you just screwed the pooch. They'll have to stay along with the
plenty mores.

Are those plenty mores available in different colors?

Yes. White, avocado green, harvest gold and coppertone.

Damn, I was hoping for burnt orange.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 07:58:23 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote Re Garage door legal question.:

Steve wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:14:02 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

Thanks, everyone for your input. It's not for a few bucks, nor do we
care of our credit either. Before we decided to walk out, we tried to
talk to the bank, they either are not interested or do they care.
They make it impossible to communicate with them. So why should we
care now?

Because you are not scumbags?


Because you entered into a contract with them.

I'm really fed up with people like you...people who feel no obligation to be
responsible...people who think only of themselves...people who stick
everyone else with additional debt because they are too childish to honor
their obligations.

The fact that you want to rip off (steal) a garage door speaks volumes.

+1
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

"Neill Massello" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:

Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am
selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door
which I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with the
bank
after we walk out?

I believe you're trolling. Why would you ask this question in a home repair
group if not?

Cheri

Dean Hoffman wrote:
EXT wrote:

You say you don't care about your credit, so where are you planning
on living after you leave. Your credit rating dictates everything
from the cost of your car insurance, acceptance by a landlord for
rental or any future mortgages.

Don't potential employers also run credit checks and such?

Yes, that is also a potential down side to destroying your credit rating,
along with many others that don't come to mind at this time.

"Cheri" wrote in
:

"Neill Massello" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:

Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am
selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door
which I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with
the bank
after we walk out?

I believe you're trolling. Why would you ask this question in a home
repair group if not?

Cheri


But it geves others a chance to vent.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message
...

Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am
selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door
which I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with
the bank
after we walk out?

Thanks

Yes, as best it would be negligence on your part to leave the opening.
Could be much worse so consult a lawyer before you take the door. For the
few buck you may get, a law suit or even a criminal charge is
not worth it.

Consulting a lawyer may be equivocal.

Some time back, I ran into an old school buddy. During the conversation, he
(a lawyer) allowed as how he was putting his money into rental property and
one of his renters (not lease, month-to-month rent), built a six-foot cedar
fence around the back yard. Now he and I both knew that this fence becomes
part of the property, so I asked him what he did about the renter.

"I raised his rent by $25 a month," was the answer! When I asked him how in
good conscience he could do that, his lawyer-think answer was:

"I convinced him the property was now more valuable."

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
"Cheri" wrote in
:

"Neill Massello" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:

Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am
selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door
which I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with
the bank
after we walk out?

I believe you're trolling. Why would you ask this question in a home
repair group if not?

Cheri


But it geves others a chance to vent.


Well, you're right about that, and me...a chance to chastise him for posting
it here. It's all good. LOL

Cheri

HeyBub wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am
selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door
which I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with
the bank
after we walk out?

Thanks
Yes, as best it would be negligence on your part to leave the opening.
Could be much worse so consult a lawyer before you take the door. For the
few buck you may get, a law suit or even a criminal charge is
not worth it.

Consulting a lawyer may be equivocal.

Some time back, I ran into an old school buddy. During the conversation, he
(a lawyer) allowed as how he was putting his money into rental property and
one of his renters (not lease, month-to-month rent), built a six-foot cedar
fence around the back yard. Now he and I both knew that this fence becomes
part of the property, so I asked him what he did about the renter.

"I raised his rent by $25 a month," was the answer! When I asked him how in
good conscience he could do that, his lawyer-think answer was:

"I convinced him the property was now more valuable."


Probably raised the property tax by a few pennies. A dastardly deed )

Unfortunately, this type of behavior seem to be growing.

Here in Florida, we are also being hit with a severe RE down turn, and
many people cannot afford their mortgages and being foreclosed on.
Many of those are people who could not afford their mortgages and
probably should never have purchased a home to begin with, but there
are also some who could afford their mortgage and insurances, but did
not anticipate home owner association fees shooting up the roof.

I have a friend who's condo building is now at 60% vacancy, many were
owners who walked away or never moved in. However they have to
continue to pay for security guards, landscaping, swimming pool,
elevator maintenance etc...many of those are signed contracts and must
be paid, but less owners means your portion is now significantly
higher, and her HOA fee is higher than her mortgage!!!

There is also a growing number of what they now called "Strategic
Defaults". People who walked not because they cannot afford but
simply because their house is now worth less than the amount they
owed. They projected in Florida alone about 28% of the defaults are
strategic. They computed that by looking at those who defaulted, how
many of them are current on car payments, credit cards etc...and only
defaulting on mortgages. I even saw some newspaper articles about
those people who strategic defaulted needing counseling help to
overcome their guilt about not paying their mortgages. This is just
insane, people who walked away from their obligations and now they
need counseling?

Opinion varies, but it is clear that due to the economy, the mortgage
defaultors will be able to rebuild their credits much sooner than a
normal bankcruptcy. Some says 2 years. It seems that because it's
considered "norm and understandable", this is not as bad as the
traditional bankcruptcy filing.

I have visited a few foreclosed on homes. Sellers walked away and
they had to blame it on someone else except themselves, so yes, I see
glass windows broken, floor tiled cracked, walls ripped, basically the
realtors told me a lot of people destroyed their home before they
walked as a way to "stick it to the banks". Now the banks are stuck
with these properties, they cannot be sold conventionally as some of
them are inhabitable so the bank asks for cash only offers since there
is no way the new buyer can get a loan from another bank for it.

It's a total mess.

wrote:

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:44:02 -0800, Steve
wrote:


Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which I
paid for about over two years ago. Is there any legal issure with the bank
after we walk out?

Thanks


Anything that is fastened down is PART OF THE HOUSE - removing it is
theft.

Definitely not that simple. For example, bookcases should have a safety
strap or bracket that is fastened to the wall to prevent them from
tipping, however they certainly would not be considered part of the
house, nor would artwork fastened to the walls of the house.

On Dec 14, 4:22*pm, Van Chocstraw
wrote:
Steve wrote:

Hi everyone. We will be walking out of our house shortly in CA. I am selling
everything that can be remove and one of the item is the garage door which I
paid for about over two years ago. *Is there any legal issure with the bank
after we walk out?

Thanks

Why don't you sell the drywall, trim, siding, flooring, heating system,
toilet and sinks, studs and anything else you can dismantle.

Somehow, I have a feeling this is what his plan is, to have a "garage
sale" and anyone can rip anything they want off the property for a
small fee.

Erma1ina wrote:
Jay-T wrote:
I am not sure, but I think that California is one of only a few states that
do not permit lenders to get a deficiency judgment against the debtor after
a foreclosure on a primary residence mortgage. If that is correct, the bank
cannot come after you for the difference between what they get from the
Sheriff's sale or foreclosure and the actual balance due on the mortgage.


According to this article California IS one of the few states that
limits deficiency judgments.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...112504186.html

Excerpt 1:

"[U of Arizona law professor, Brent T.] White argues that far more of
the estimated 15 million American homeowners who are underwater on their
mortgages should stiff their lenders and take a hike.

"Doing so, he suggests, could save some of them hundreds of thousands of
dollars that they 'have no reasonable prospect of recouping' in the
years ahead. Plus the penalties are nowhere near as painful or
long-lasting as they might assume.

" 'Homeowners should be walking away in droves,' according to White.
'But they aren't. And it's not because the financial costs of
foreclosure outweigh the benefits.' Sure, credit scores get whacked when
you walk away, he acknowledges. But as long as you stay current with
other creditors, 'one can have a good credit rating again -- meaning
above 660 -- within two years after a foreclosure.'

"Better yet, you can default 'strategically.' Buy all the major items
you'll need for the next couple of years -- a new car, even a new house
-- just before you pull the plug on your current mortgage lender.

" 'Most individuals should be able to plan in advance for a few years of
limited credit,' White said, with minimal disruptions to their
lifestyles."

Excerpt 2:

"The main point, [White] says, is that too often people's emotions get
in the way of clear financial thinking about mortgages, turning them
into what he calls 'woodheads' -- 'individuals who choose not to act in
their own self-interest.' Most owners are too worried about feelings of
shame and embarrassment following a foreclosure, and ignore the powerful
financial reasons for going through with it, he said.

"Buttressing these emotions is a system that White labels 'the social
control of the housing crisis' -- pressures and messages continually
sent to consumers by the 'social control agents,' namely banks,
government and the media. The mantra these agents -- all the way up to
President Obama -- pound into owners' heads, White says, is that
'voluntarily defaulting on a mortgage is immoral.'

"Yet there is an inherent imbalance in the borrower-lender relationship
that makes this morality message unfair to consumers: Banks set the
rules during the housing boom, handing out home loans with no down
payments, no income checks and inflated appraisals. Now that property
values have dropped 20 to 50 percent in many areas, banks have been slow
to modify troubled mortgages and reluctant to reduce principal debts.

"Only when homeowners cut through the emotional fog and default
strategically in large numbers, White argues, will this inequitable
situation be seriously addressed.

"How does White's 52-page manifesto go over with mortgage lenders?
Predictably, not well."

White is an unethical twit. Yes, banks wrote a lot of paper to people
they shouldn't have, with made-up dreamworld numbers. But they didn't
hold a gun to anyone's head to get them to sign. Anyone who commits to a
debt they can't afford SHOULD suffer some pain if their house of cards
collapses. That is how mother nature educates people who didn't pick it
up in school. I don't think the banks should be off the hook either- if
they write bad paper, they should have to eat part of the loss.

Yes, I know, some people suffer financial reversals through no fault of
their own, and should have a way to start over. That is what bankruptcy
laws are for. But people who still have jobs, but happen to notice that
their McMansion is worth less than they owe on it, I have little pity
for. Shouldn't have bought such an ego palace in the first place, fool.
Houses lower on the food chain have held their value a lot better, and
you can still sell them for something close to what you paid, in most
areas. There are several 10-year-old beige subdivisions around here,
maybe 1/4 built out, that haven't had any new starts in five years. But
due to the CCRs requiring McMansions, they won't be built out anytime
soon. At some point, the developers will walk away from the vacant lots,
and they will tax-revert to the city. Maybe they will sell them to the
neighbors, or make some nice unofficial pocket parks once nature plants
trees in them.

--
aem sends, ranting.....