I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...

On Oct 29, 9:16*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...

could mean some shorted turns or binding bearings, (but you should be
able to feel that by turning the rotor by hand) or it could mean
nothing..

leave it run for longer and see how hot it gets..

Does it have a starter relay or cap that is defective?

Mark

On Oct 29, 9:16*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...

could mean some shorted turns or binding bearings, (but you should be
able to feel that by turning the rotor by hand) or it could mean
nothing..

leave it run for longer and see how hot it gets..

Does it have a starter relay or cap that is defective?

Mark

HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


Hi,
Are you reading peak current or average current draw? When motor starts
there is a surge of current.

HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


Hi,
Are you reading peak current or average current draw? When motor starts
there is a surge of current.

HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...



Is it possible for you to check the current draw with another kind of
meter, say a conventional clamp-on ammeter?

That 17 amps being drawn when unloaded sure doesn't sound correct to me.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...



Is it possible for you to check the current draw with another kind of
meter, say a conventional clamp-on ammeter?

That 17 amps being drawn when unloaded sure doesn't sound correct to me.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
...
HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...

Is it possible for you to check the current draw with another kind of
meter, say a conventional clamp-on ammeter?

That 17 amps being drawn when unloaded sure doesn't sound correct to me.

Should proly be 3 amps unloaded. 1 1/8 hp rating is kinda odd, eh?

I just bought a killawatt. I'll fool around some in the next cupla days.
I'm curious as to how it handles power factors.
If it is just calc'ing amps x volts, it's not really reading true watts.

Someone here once posted on how Con Ed type watt-meters work, in some
detail, most of which ran over my head, but I'd like to take another look at
that post, if someone has it marked. It was complicated enough (using some
kind of hysteresis saturation of metal or sumpn, ie, intrinsically
mechanical) that I wonder how a solidstate device can duplicate this. I
guess if it calc'd the voltage wave form and the current waveform sep'ly,
like on an oscilloscope, and determined the phase angle, it could be done
electronically, but I'll find out by comparing with a clamp-on meter.

--
EA



Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
...
HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...

Is it possible for you to check the current draw with another kind of
meter, say a conventional clamp-on ammeter?

That 17 amps being drawn when unloaded sure doesn't sound correct to me.

Should proly be 3 amps unloaded. 1 1/8 hp rating is kinda odd, eh?

I just bought a killawatt. I'll fool around some in the next cupla days.
I'm curious as to how it handles power factors.
If it is just calc'ing amps x volts, it's not really reading true watts.

Someone here once posted on how Con Ed type watt-meters work, in some
detail, most of which ran over my head, but I'd like to take another look at
that post, if someone has it marked. It was complicated enough (using some
kind of hysteresis saturation of metal or sumpn, ie, intrinsically
mechanical) that I wonder how a solidstate device can duplicate this. I
guess if it calc'd the voltage wave form and the current waveform sep'ly,
like on an oscilloscope, and determined the phase angle, it could be done
electronically, but I'll find out by comparing with a clamp-on meter.

--
EA



Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

Existential Angst wrote:
wrote in message
...
HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...

Is it possible for you to check the current draw with another kind of
meter, say a conventional clamp-on ammeter?

That 17 amps being drawn when unloaded sure doesn't sound correct to me.

Should proly be 3 amps unloaded. 1 1/8 hp rating is kinda odd, eh?

I just bought a killawatt. I'll fool around some in the next cupla days.
I'm curious as to how it handles power factors.
If it is just calc'ing amps x volts, it's not really reading true watts.

Someone here once posted on how Con Ed type watt-meters work, in some
detail, most of which ran over my head, but I'd like to take another look at
that post, if someone has it marked. It was complicated enough (using some
kind of hysteresis saturation of metal or sumpn, ie, intrinsically
mechanical) that I wonder how a solidstate device can duplicate this. I
guess if it calc'd the voltage wave form and the current waveform sep'ly,
like on an oscilloscope, and determined the phase angle, it could be done
electronically, but I'll find out by comparing with a clamp-on meter.

Hi,
That is easy if voltage leadning current vice versa, measuring phase
angle. Cosine Phi is power factor, right? Cosine 0 degree is 1 where
V and A is in phase which never happens in real world since most load is
inductive.

Existential Angst wrote:
wrote in message
...
HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...

Is it possible for you to check the current draw with another kind of
meter, say a conventional clamp-on ammeter?

That 17 amps being drawn when unloaded sure doesn't sound correct to me.

Should proly be 3 amps unloaded. 1 1/8 hp rating is kinda odd, eh?

I just bought a killawatt. I'll fool around some in the next cupla days.
I'm curious as to how it handles power factors.
If it is just calc'ing amps x volts, it's not really reading true watts.

Someone here once posted on how Con Ed type watt-meters work, in some
detail, most of which ran over my head, but I'd like to take another look at
that post, if someone has it marked. It was complicated enough (using some
kind of hysteresis saturation of metal or sumpn, ie, intrinsically
mechanical) that I wonder how a solidstate device can duplicate this. I
guess if it calc'd the voltage wave form and the current waveform sep'ly,
like on an oscilloscope, and determined the phase angle, it could be done
electronically, but I'll find out by comparing with a clamp-on meter.

Hi,
That is easy if voltage leadning current vice versa, measuring phase
angle. Cosine Phi is power factor, right? Cosine 0 degree is 1 where
V and A is in phase which never happens in real world since most load is
inductive.

"Existential Angst" wrote:

I just bought a killawatt. I'll fool around some in the next cupla days.
I'm curious as to how it handles power factors.
If it is just calc'ing amps x volts, it's not really reading true watts.

They do read true watts, and are fairly accurate. They also tell you
what the power factor is. So, all in all, pretty neat little gizmo.

"Existential Angst" wrote:

I just bought a killawatt. I'll fool around some in the next cupla days.
I'm curious as to how it handles power factors.
If it is just calc'ing amps x volts, it's not really reading true watts.

They do read true watts, and are fairly accurate. They also tell you
what the power factor is. So, all in all, pretty neat little gizmo.

Zardo Zapp wrote:

"Existential Angst" wrote:

I just bought a killawatt. I'll fool around some in the next cupla days.
I'm curious as to how it handles power factors.
If it is just calc'ing amps x volts, it's not really reading true watts.

They do read true watts, and are fairly accurate. They also tell you
what the power factor is. So, all in all, pretty neat little gizmo.

Yes, I've compared them to reading from my Fluke 87 and they agree
nicely. The Kill-a-Watt is a very handy and economical gadget. They are
particularly handy when used with a Honda EU2000i generator camping.

Zardo Zapp wrote:

"Existential Angst" wrote:

I just bought a killawatt. I'll fool around some in the next cupla days.
I'm curious as to how it handles power factors.
If it is just calc'ing amps x volts, it's not really reading true watts.

They do read true watts, and are fairly accurate. They also tell you
what the power factor is. So, all in all, pretty neat little gizmo.

Yes, I've compared them to reading from my Fluke 87 and they agree
nicely. The Kill-a-Watt is a very handy and economical gadget. They are
particularly handy when used with a Honda EU2000i generator camping.

Zardo Zapp wrote:
"Existential wrote:

I just bought a killawatt. I'll fool around some in the next cupla days.
I'm curious as to how it handles power factors.
If it is just calc'ing amps x volts, it's not really reading true watts.

They do read true watts, and are fairly accurate. They also tell you
what the power factor is. So, all in all, pretty neat little gizmo.


Hi,
Then the motor is sick.

Zardo Zapp wrote:
"Existential wrote:

I just bought a killawatt. I'll fool around some in the next cupla days.
I'm curious as to how it handles power factors.
If it is just calc'ing amps x volts, it's not really reading true watts.

They do read true watts, and are fairly accurate. They also tell you
what the power factor is. So, all in all, pretty neat little gizmo.


Hi,
Then the motor is sick.

Mark wrote:
On Oct 29, 9:16 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...

could mean some shorted turns or binding bearings, (but you should be
able to feel that by turning the rotor by hand) or it could mean
nothing..

leave it run for longer and see how hot it gets..

Does it have a starter relay or cap that is defective?


It has a starter relay that disengages properly. The start cap is new.

Tony Hwang wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


Hi,
Are you reading peak current or average current draw? When motor
starts there is a surge of current.

Average draw after the motor reaches speed.

jeff_wisnia wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...



Is it possible for you to check the current draw with another kind of
meter, say a conventional clamp-on ammeter?

That 17 amps being drawn when unloaded sure doesn't sound correct to
me.

Good idea. I'll dig out my clamp-on. Thanks for reminding me.

I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


*With one horsepower equaling 746 watts even the nameplate rating sounds a
little high. If it is still high with your ammeter you could have a bad
bearing, but you should be able to hear that.

Let us know what you find.

Is it brand new, or been around a while? Might be the
berrings are dry, and it's under a bit of a load, trying to
spin. Give it a couple drops of ND-30 oil in the berrings,
and see if that works better.

Someone else also mentioned using clamp on ammeter. That
might give different number.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13
Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with
no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...

bud-- wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


Are you misreading 18 as 13?

The table in the NEC gives 16 amps for an "average" 1 HP 120V motor.
That, along with the nameplate value of 13A is for a fully loaded
motor. Are you operating with a mechanical load?

Watts might also be of interest. A 1 1/8 HP mechanical load is 840
watts. Then there are losses that add. I never looked at the watts of
an unloaded motor. Should be far less - most of the current is
reactive.

You may be on to something - that, coupled with the limitation of the
Kill-A-Watt to 15 amps, leads me to go ahead and perform the "Smoke Test."

HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


Are you misreading 18 as 13?

The table in the NEC gives 16 amps for an "average" 1 HP 120V motor.
That, along with the nameplate value of 13A is for a fully loaded motor.
Are you operating with a mechanical load?

Watts might also be of interest. A 1 1/8 HP mechanical load is 840
watts. Then there are losses that add. I never looked at the watts of an
unloaded motor. Should be far less - most of the current is reactive.

--
bud--

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Tony Hwang wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


Hi,
Are you reading peak current or average current draw? When motor
starts there is a surge of current.

Average draw after the motor reaches speed.

That seems to be way high for a motor that is not under any load. Either a
faulty meter or the motor is bad.

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Is it brand new, or been around a while? Might be the
berrings are dry, and it's under a bit of a load, trying to
spin. Give it a couple drops of ND-30 oil in the berrings,
and see if that works better.

Someone else also mentioned using clamp on ammeter. That
might give different number.

What the hell is a berring?

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:


Is it brand new, or been around a while? Might be the
berrings are dry, and it's under a bit of a load, trying to
spin. Give it a couple drops of ND-30 oil in the berrings,
and see if that works better.

Someone else also mentioned using clamp on ammeter. That
might give different number.


What the hell is a berring?


You've never heard of the berring straight?

http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/bering.htm

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

The strait answer, is that it's a path from Alaska to
Russia.

It could also be plain, needle, or sleeve. (Sounds like the
start of a joke. A man has a plain, needle and sleeve. His
boss asks him to make a berring...)

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news In article ,
"Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Is it brand new, or been around a while? Might be the
berrings are dry, and it's under a bit of a load, trying
to
spin. Give it a couple drops of ND-30 oil in the berrings,
and see if that works better.

Someone else also mentioned using clamp on ammeter. That
might give different number.

What the hell is a berring?

You came in, on cue, with the strait line. Thanks, Jeff, and
you're losing weight. You hardly weigh anything on my lap,
little buddy.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"jeff_wisnia" wrote in
message
unications...

What the hell is a berring?


You've never heard of the berring straight?

http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/bering.htm

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

In article
unications,
jeff_wisnia wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:


Is it brand new, or been around a while? Might be the
berrings are dry, and it's under a bit of a load, trying to
spin. Give it a couple drops of ND-30 oil in the berrings,
and see if that works better.

Someone else also mentioned using clamp on ammeter. That
might give different number.


What the hell is a berring?


You've never heard of the berring straight?

http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/bering.htm

Jeff

Oh, right. The place Sarah Palin is guarding for us. I was confused, I
thought we were talking about motors.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
The strait answer, is that it's a path from Alaska to
Russia.

It could also be plain, needle, or sleeve. (Sounds like the
start of a joke. A man has a plain, needle and sleeve. His
boss asks him to make a berring...)



I read that as "Palin needles the sleeze." Must be projecting....

Stormin Mormon wrote:
The strait answer, is that it's a path from Alaska to
Russia.

It could also be plain, needle, or sleeve. (Sounds like the
start of a joke. A man has a plain, needle and sleeve. His
boss asks him to make a berring...)



I read that as "Palin needles the sleeze." Must be projecting....

Stormin Mormon wrote:

You came in, on cue, with the strait line. Thanks, Jeff, and
you're losing weight. You hardly weigh anything on my lap,
little buddy.



And for those who didn't know this already, Alaska is the easternmost,
as well as the northernmost of the 50 United States.

But easternmost only on a technicality. The last few Aleutian Islands
are on the other side of the 180th meridian, and as such are in the
eastern hemisphere. If you don't want to count them, then the
easternmost state would be Maine.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

You came in, on cue, with the strait line. Thanks, Jeff, and
you're losing weight. You hardly weigh anything on my lap,
little buddy.



And for those who didn't know this already, Alaska is the easternmost,
as well as the northernmost of the 50 United States.

But easternmost only on a technicality. The last few Aleutian Islands
are on the other side of the 180th meridian, and as such are in the
eastern hemisphere. If you don't want to count them, then the
easternmost state would be Maine.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

Tony Hwang wrote:

Zardo Zapp wrote:
"Existential wrote:

I just bought a killawatt. I'll fool around some in the next cupla days.
I'm curious as to how it handles power factors.
If it is just calc'ing amps x volts, it's not really reading true watts.

They do read true watts, and are fairly accurate. They also tell you
what the power factor is. So, all in all, pretty neat little gizmo.


Hi,
Then the motor is sick.

Could well be.

But, also note that the Kill-a-watt can get a little squirly if you
exceeed it's max rated current.

Tony Hwang wrote:

Zardo Zapp wrote:
"Existential wrote:

I just bought a killawatt. I'll fool around some in the next cupla days.
I'm curious as to how it handles power factors.
If it is just calc'ing amps x volts, it's not really reading true watts.

They do read true watts, and are fairly accurate. They also tell you
what the power factor is. So, all in all, pretty neat little gizmo.


Hi,
Then the motor is sick.

Could well be.

But, also note that the Kill-a-watt can get a little squirly if you
exceeed it's max rated current.

jeff_wisnia wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:

You came in, on cue, with the strait line. Thanks, Jeff, and
you're losing weight. You hardly weigh anything on my lap,
little buddy.



And for those who didn't know this already, Alaska is the easternmost,
as well as the northernmost of the 50 United States.

But easternmost only on a technicality. The last few Aleutian Islands
are on the other side of the 180th meridian, and as such are in the
eastern hemisphere. If you don't want to count them, then the
easternmost state would be Maine.


By most definitions, Alaska is the easternmost, westernmost, and
northernmost state. If you consider only the contiguous 48, you are correct
about Maine. However, Minnesota is the most northern state.

Of the 50, what state is the farthest south? (answer below)







Hawaii.

jeff_wisnia wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:

You came in, on cue, with the strait line. Thanks, Jeff, and
you're losing weight. You hardly weigh anything on my lap,
little buddy.



And for those who didn't know this already, Alaska is the easternmost,
as well as the northernmost of the 50 United States.

But easternmost only on a technicality. The last few Aleutian Islands
are on the other side of the 180th meridian, and as such are in the
eastern hemisphere. If you don't want to count them, then the
easternmost state would be Maine.


By most definitions, Alaska is the easternmost, westernmost, and
northernmost state. If you consider only the contiguous 48, you are correct
about Maine. However, Minnesota is the most northern state.

Of the 50, what state is the farthest south? (answer below)







Hawaii.

John Grabowski wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


*With one horsepower equaling 746 watts even the nameplate rating
sounds a little high. If it is still high with your ammeter you
could have a bad bearing, but you should be able to hear that.

Let us know what you find.

The faceplate reads a clear "13.5 Amps."

Both the Kill-A-Watt (reluctantly) and a clamp-on ammeter show about 18-18.6
amps being drawn.

Interestingly, the clamp-on shows 18.5 amps on one wire and 16 on the other.
The difference must be in heat. Or condensation.

John Grabowski wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


*With one horsepower equaling 746 watts even the nameplate rating
sounds a little high. If it is still high with your ammeter you
could have a bad bearing, but you should be able to hear that.

Let us know what you find.

The faceplate reads a clear "13.5 Amps."

Both the Kill-A-Watt (reluctantly) and a clamp-on ammeter show about 18-18.6
amps being drawn.

Interestingly, the clamp-on shows 18.5 amps on one wire and 16 on the other.
The difference must be in heat. Or condensation.