On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:05:20 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Is it brand new, or been around a while? Might be the
berrings are dry, and it's under a bit of a load, trying to
spin. Give it a couple drops of ND-30 oil in the berrings,
and see if that works better.

Someone else also mentioned using clamp on ammeter. That
might give different number.

What the hell is a berring?

Aren't those found in Alaska?

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:05:20 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Is it brand new, or been around a while? Might be the
berrings are dry, and it's under a bit of a load, trying to
spin. Give it a couple drops of ND-30 oil in the berrings,
and see if that works better.

Someone else also mentioned using clamp on ammeter. That
might give different number.

What the hell is a berring?

Aren't those found in Alaska?

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:44:23 -0400, jeff_wisnia
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:

You came in, on cue, with the strait line. Thanks, Jeff, and
you're losing weight. You hardly weigh anything on my lap,
little buddy.



And for those who didn't know this already, Alaska is the easternmost,
as well as the northernmost of the 50 United States.

and westernmost, of course.

But easternmost only on a technicality. The last few Aleutian Islands
are on the other side of the 180th meridian, and as such are in the
eastern hemisphere. If you don't want to count them, then the
easternmost state would be Maine.

Jeff

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:44:23 -0400, jeff_wisnia
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:

You came in, on cue, with the strait line. Thanks, Jeff, and
you're losing weight. You hardly weigh anything on my lap,
little buddy.



And for those who didn't know this already, Alaska is the easternmost,
as well as the northernmost of the 50 United States.

and westernmost, of course.

But easternmost only on a technicality. The last few Aleutian Islands
are on the other side of the 180th meridian, and as such are in the
eastern hemisphere. If you don't want to count them, then the
easternmost state would be Maine.

Jeff

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:28:50 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Zardo Zapp wrote:
"Existential wrote:

I just bought a killawatt. I'll fool around some in the next cupla days.
I'm curious as to how it handles power factors.
If it is just calc'ing amps x volts, it's not really reading true watts.

They do read true watts, and are fairly accurate. They also tell you
what the power factor is. So, all in all, pretty neat little gizmo.


Hi,
Then the motor is sick.
Not necessarily. Some type of motors still draw lot of current with
little or no load. What changes is the power factor. They aren't
using much power because the current isn't in phase with the voltage.
In other words, they look like a big inductor rather than a resistor.
The power company hates these types of loads because there are still
losses (heat) in their lines due to the high current going through
imperfect wires, but the customer isn't paying much due to their meter
not showing much real power being used.

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:28:50 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Zardo Zapp wrote:
"Existential wrote:

I just bought a killawatt. I'll fool around some in the next cupla days.
I'm curious as to how it handles power factors.
If it is just calc'ing amps x volts, it's not really reading true watts.

They do read true watts, and are fairly accurate. They also tell you
what the power factor is. So, all in all, pretty neat little gizmo.


Hi,
Then the motor is sick.
Not necessarily. Some type of motors still draw lot of current with
little or no load. What changes is the power factor. They aren't
using much power because the current isn't in phase with the voltage.
In other words, they look like a big inductor rather than a resistor.
The power company hates these types of loads because there are still
losses (heat) in their lines due to the high current going through
imperfect wires, but the customer isn't paying much due to their meter
not showing much real power being used.

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:41:08 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

John Grabowski wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


*With one horsepower equaling 746 watts even the nameplate rating
sounds a little high. If it is still high with your ammeter you
could have a bad bearing, but you should be able to hear that.

Let us know what you find.

The faceplate reads a clear "13.5 Amps."

Both the Kill-A-Watt (reluctantly) and a clamp-on ammeter show about 18-18.6
amps being drawn.

Interestingly, the clamp-on shows 18.5 amps on one wire and 16 on the other.
The difference must be in heat. Or condensation.

Cannot be. What flows in the one wire MUST flow in the other unless
you have a SERIOUS ground fault.

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:41:08 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

John Grabowski wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


*With one horsepower equaling 746 watts even the nameplate rating
sounds a little high. If it is still high with your ammeter you
could have a bad bearing, but you should be able to hear that.

Let us know what you find.

The faceplate reads a clear "13.5 Amps."

Both the Kill-A-Watt (reluctantly) and a clamp-on ammeter show about 18-18.6
amps being drawn.

Interestingly, the clamp-on shows 18.5 amps on one wire and 16 on the other.
The difference must be in heat. Or condensation.

Cannot be. What flows in the one wire MUST flow in the other unless
you have a SERIOUS ground fault.

On Oct 30, 9:44*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:41:08 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:





John Grabowski wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...

*With one horsepower equaling 746 watts even the nameplate rating
sounds a little high. *If it is still high with your ammeter you
could have a bad bearing, but you should be able to hear that.

Let us know what you find.

The faceplate reads a clear "13.5 Amps."

Both the Kill-A-Watt (reluctantly) and a clamp-on ammeter show about 18-18.6
amps being drawn.

Interestingly, the clamp-on shows 18.5 amps on one wire and 16 on the other.
The difference must be in heat. Or condensation.

Cannot be. What flows in the one wire MUST flow in the other unless
you have a SERIOUS ground fault.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

With the clamp-on meters, it is important to center the wire within
the "jaws" when taking readings. That might explain the 12%
difference between the in and out wires.

On Oct 30, 9:44*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:41:08 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:





John Grabowski wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...

*With one horsepower equaling 746 watts even the nameplate rating
sounds a little high. *If it is still high with your ammeter you
could have a bad bearing, but you should be able to hear that.

Let us know what you find.

The faceplate reads a clear "13.5 Amps."

Both the Kill-A-Watt (reluctantly) and a clamp-on ammeter show about 18-18.6
amps being drawn.

Interestingly, the clamp-on shows 18.5 amps on one wire and 16 on the other.
The difference must be in heat. Or condensation.

Cannot be. What flows in the one wire MUST flow in the other unless
you have a SERIOUS ground fault.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

With the clamp-on meters, it is important to center the wire within
the "jaws" when taking readings. That might explain the 12%
difference between the in and out wires.

hr(bob) wrote:
On Oct 30, 9:44 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:41:08 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:





John Grabowski wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.
Does the difference mean anything important?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...
*With one horsepower equaling 746 watts even the nameplate rating
sounds a little high. If it is still high with your ammeter you
could have a bad bearing, but you should be able to hear that.
Let us know what you find.

The faceplate reads a clear "13.5 Amps."
Both the Kill-A-Watt (reluctantly) and a clamp-on ammeter show about 18-18.6
amps being drawn.
Interestingly, the clamp-on shows 18.5 amps on one wire and 16 on the other.
The difference must be in heat. Or condensation.

Cannot be. What flows in the one wire MUST flow in the other unless
you have a SERIOUS ground fault.


With the clamp-on meters, it is important to center the wire within
the "jaws" when taking readings. That might explain the 12%
difference between the in and out wires.

In any case it needs to be resolved.

What is the current on the ground wire?

--
bud--

hr(bob) wrote:
On Oct 30, 9:44 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:41:08 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:





John Grabowski wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.
Does the difference mean anything important?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...
*With one horsepower equaling 746 watts even the nameplate rating
sounds a little high. If it is still high with your ammeter you
could have a bad bearing, but you should be able to hear that.
Let us know what you find.

The faceplate reads a clear "13.5 Amps."
Both the Kill-A-Watt (reluctantly) and a clamp-on ammeter show about 18-18.6
amps being drawn.
Interestingly, the clamp-on shows 18.5 amps on one wire and 16 on the other.
The difference must be in heat. Or condensation.

Cannot be. What flows in the one wire MUST flow in the other unless
you have a SERIOUS ground fault.


With the clamp-on meters, it is important to center the wire within
the "jaws" when taking readings. That might explain the 12%
difference between the in and out wires.

In any case it needs to be resolved.

What is the current on the ground wire?

--
bud--

I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.
Does the difference mean anything important?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...
*With one horsepower equaling 746 watts even the nameplate rating
sounds a little high. If it is still high with your ammeter you
could have a bad bearing, but you should be able to hear that.
Let us know what you find.

The faceplate reads a clear "13.5 Amps."
Both the Kill-A-Watt (reluctantly) and a clamp-on ammeter show about
18-18.6
amps being drawn.
Interestingly, the clamp-on shows 18.5 amps on one wire and 16 on the
other.
The difference must be in heat. Or condensation.

Cannot be. What flows in the one wire MUST flow in the other unless
you have a SERIOUS ground fault.


With the clamp-on meters, it is important to center the wire within
the "jaws" when taking readings. That might explain the 12%
difference between the in and out wires.

In any case it needs to be resolved.

What is the current on the ground wire?



*I was wondering the same thing. It sounds as though there is leakage to
ground.

You've not ever said what the motor is doing. A typical squirrel
cage blower and its motor will run way over rated amps and burn
the motor up. The normal process is to get it running and
restrict the intake air until the amp draw is within spec. The
blower wheels are normally in a housing that does this, the issue
comes up if you try to run the blower out of its normal housing.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
bud-- wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13
Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no
load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


Are you misreading 18 as 13?

The table in the NEC gives 16 amps for an "average" 1 HP 120V
motor.
That, along with the nameplate value of 13A is for a fully
loaded
motor. Are you operating with a mechanical load?

Watts might also be of interest. A 1 1/8 HP mechanical load is
840
watts. Then there are losses that add. I never looked at the
watts of
an unloaded motor. Should be far less - most of the current is
reactive.

You may be on to something - that, coupled with the limitation
of the Kill-A-Watt to 15 amps, leads me to go ahead and perform
the "Smoke Test."

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:53:32 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

bud-- wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps. It
actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


Are you misreading 18 as 13?

The table in the NEC gives 16 amps for an "average" 1 HP 120V motor.
That, along with the nameplate value of 13A is for a fully loaded
motor. Are you operating with a mechanical load?

Watts might also be of interest. A 1 1/8 HP mechanical load is 840
watts. Then there are losses that add. I never looked at the watts of
an unloaded motor. Should be far less - most of the current is
reactive.

You may be on to something - that, coupled with the limitation of the
Kill-A-Watt to 15 amps, leads me to go ahead and perform the "Smoke Test."


I didn't see the 15A limit on my Kilowatt. I put it on my compressor
motor and it started at about 16 amps when I turned it on, and went up
to 19 amps just before shutting off when it reached full pressure,
about 120psi. The Kilowatt seems ok for having been overloaded.

Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:53:32 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

bud-- wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps.
It actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no
load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


Are you misreading 18 as 13?

The table in the NEC gives 16 amps for an "average" 1 HP 120V motor.
That, along with the nameplate value of 13A is for a fully loaded
motor. Are you operating with a mechanical load?

Watts might also be of interest. A 1 1/8 HP mechanical load is 840
watts. Then there are losses that add. I never looked at the watts
of an unloaded motor. Should be far less - most of the current is
reactive.

You may be on to something - that, coupled with the limitation of the
Kill-A-Watt to 15 amps, leads me to go ahead and perform the "Smoke
Test."


I didn't see the 15A limit on my Kilowatt. I put it on my compressor
motor and it started at about 16 amps when I turned it on, and went up
to 19 amps just before shutting off when it reached full pressure,
about 120psi. The Kilowatt seems ok for having been overloaded.

Limits:
Max voltage 125VAC
Max amps 15 A
Max power 1875 VA
http://www.p3international.com/produ.../P4400-CE.html

On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 06:48:24 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:53:32 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

bud-- wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
I have a 115v, 1 1/8 HP motor with a faceplate rating of 13 Amps.
It actually draws 17 Amps (according to the Kill-A-Watt) with no
load.

Does the difference mean anything important?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S.
I haven't run the motor for more than a couple of minutes...


Are you misreading 18 as 13?

The table in the NEC gives 16 amps for an "average" 1 HP 120V motor.
That, along with the nameplate value of 13A is for a fully loaded
motor. Are you operating with a mechanical load?

Watts might also be of interest. A 1 1/8 HP mechanical load is 840
watts. Then there are losses that add. I never looked at the watts
of an unloaded motor. Should be far less - most of the current is
reactive.

You may be on to something - that, coupled with the limitation of the
Kill-A-Watt to 15 amps, leads me to go ahead and perform the "Smoke
Test."


I didn't see the 15A limit on my Kilowatt. I put it on my compressor
motor and it started at about 16 amps when I turned it on, and went up
to 19 amps just before shutting off when it reached full pressure,
about 120psi. The Kilowatt seems ok for having been overloaded.

Limits:
Max voltage 125VAC
Max amps 15 A
Max power 1875 VA
http://www.p3international.com/produ.../P4400-CE.html



Most likely that's the rating for continuous duty. Mine was only on
for maybe 3 or 4 minutes.