Media speculation since the horrific terrorist attacks on America has
pointed the finger at Muslims and the Arab world, and that has meant
ordinary citizens of the US and other Western countries becoming easy
prey for anti-faith hooligans. Shame. Sadly, the latest horror to hit
the US looks to have been caused by people of Middle Eastern origin,
bearing Muslim names. Again, shame. This fuels more hatred for a
religion and a people who have nothing to do with these events. This
is why I want to explain some basic facts about this noble way we call
Islam, before, God forbid, another disaster occurs - next time
probably aimed at Muslims.

I came to Islam in my late 20s, during my searching period as a
wandering pop star. I found a religion that blended scientific reason
with spiritual reality in a unifying faith far removed from the
headlines of violence, destruction and terrorism. One of the first
interesting things I learned in the Koran was that the name of the
faith comes from the word salam - peace. Far from the kind of Turko-
Arab-centric message I expected, the Koran presented a belief in the
universal existence of God, one God for all. It does not discriminate
against peoples; it says we may be different colors and from different
tribes, but we are all human and "the best of people are the most God-
conscious".

Today, as a Muslim, I have been shattered by the horror of recent
events; the display of death and indiscriminate killing we've all
witnessed has dented humanity's confidence in itself. Terror on this
scale affects everybody on this small planet, and no one is free from
the fallout. Yet we should remember that such violence is almost an
everyday occurrence in some Muslim lands: it should not be exacerbated
by revenge attacks on more innocent families and communities.

Along with most Muslims, I feel it a duty to make clear that such
orchestrated acts of incomprehensible carnage have nothing to do with
the beliefs of most Muslims. The Koran specifically declares: "If
anyone murders an (innocent) person, it will be as if he has murdered
the whole of humanity. And if anyone saves a person it will be as if
he has saved the whole of humanity."

The Koran that our young people learn is full of stories and lessons
from the history of humanity as a whole. The Gospels and the Torah are
referred to; Jesus and Abraham are mentioned. In fact there is more
mention in the Koran of the prophet Moses than of any other. It
acknowledges the coexistence of other faiths, and in doing so
acknowledges that other cultures can live together in peace.

"There is no compulsion in religion," it states, meaning that people
should not be compelled to change their faith. Elsewhere it states,
"To you, your religion; to me mine." Respect for religious values and
justice is at the Koran's core. The Koranic history we teach our young
provides ample examples of inter-religious and international
relationships; of how to live together. But some extremists take
elements of the sacred ******ures out of con****. They act as
individuals, and when they can't come together as part of a political
structure or consultative process, you find these dissident factions
creating their own rules, contrary to the spirit of the Koran - which
demands that those recognized as being in charge of Muslims must
consult together regarding society's affairs.

There is a whole chapter in the Koran entitled Consultation. Communal
well being is central to human life, so there is a concept in Islam
called Istihsan, which means "to look for the common good". Even
though the Koran may lay down a diktat, scholars are also supposed to
consider the circumstances prevalent at the time. Sometimes that means
choosing the lesser of two evils or even suspending legislation if
necessary: for instance, a person who steals bread during a famine is
not treated as a thief.

Once I wrote in a song, "Where do the children play?" Our sympathy and
thoughts go out to the families of all those who lost their lives in
this tragic act of violence, as well as all those injured. But life
must go on. Children still need to play, and people need to live and
learn more about their neighbors so that ignorance doesn't breed more
blind fanaticism. Moderation is part of faith, so those who accuse
Muslim schools of fostering fanaticism should learn a bit more about
Islam.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "Ruined are those who insist on
hardship in faith," and, "A believer remains within the scope of his
religion as long as he doesn't kill another person illegally." Such
knowledge and words of guidance are desperately needed at this time,
to separate fact from falsehood, and to recognise the Last Prophet's
own definition of that which makes a person representative, or
otherwise, of the faith he lived and the one we try to teach.
by Yusuf Islam (formerly the singer Cat Stevens)

Published on Monday, September 24, 2001 by Al-Hewar Magazine.

On Oct 14, 5:22*am, SALY wrote:
Media speculation since the horrific terrorist attacks on America has
pointed the finger at Muslims and the Arab world, and that has meant
ordinary citizens of the US and other Western countries becoming easy
prey for anti-faith hooligans. Shame. Sadly, the latest horror to hit
the US looks to have been caused by people of Middle Eastern origin,
bearing Muslim names. Again, shame. This fuels more hatred for a
religion and a people who have nothing to do with these events. This
is why I want to explain some basic facts about this noble way we call
Islam, before, God forbid, another disaster occurs - next time
probably aimed at Muslims.

I came to Islam in my late 20s, during my searching period as a
wandering pop star. I found a religion that blended scientific reason
with spiritual reality in a unifying faith far removed from the
headlines of violence, destruction and terrorism. One of the first
interesting things I learned in the Koran was that the name of the
faith comes from the word salam - peace. Far from the kind of Turko-
Arab-centric message I expected, the Koran presented a belief in the
universal existence of God, one God for all. It does not discriminate
against peoples; it says we may be different colors and from different
tribes, but we are all human and "the best of people are the most God-
conscious".

Today, as a Muslim, I have been shattered by the horror of recent
events; the display of death and indiscriminate killing we've all
witnessed has dented humanity's confidence in itself. Terror on this
scale affects everybody on this small planet, and no one is free from
the fallout. Yet we should remember that such violence is almost an
everyday occurrence in some Muslim lands: it should not be exacerbated
by revenge attacks on more innocent families and communities.

Along with most Muslims, I feel it a duty to make clear that such
orchestrated acts of incomprehensible carnage have nothing to do with
the beliefs of most Muslims. The Koran specifically declares: "If
anyone murders an (innocent) person, it will be as if he has murdered
the whole of humanity. And if anyone saves a person it will be as if
he has saved the whole of humanity."

The Koran that our young people learn is full of stories and lessons
from the history of humanity as a whole. The Gospels and the Torah are
referred to; Jesus and Abraham are mentioned. In fact there is more
mention in the Koran of the prophet Moses than of any other. It
acknowledges the coexistence of other faiths, and in doing so
acknowledges that other cultures can live together in peace.

"There is no compulsion in religion," it states, meaning that people
should not be compelled to change their faith. Elsewhere it states,
"To you, your religion; to me mine." Respect for religious values and
justice is at the Koran's core. The Koranic history we teach our young
provides ample examples of inter-religious and international
relationships; of how to live together. But some extremists take
elements of the sacred ******ures out of con****. They act as
individuals, and when they can't come together as part of a political
structure or consultative process, you find these dissident factions
creating their own rules, contrary to the spirit of the Koran - which
demands that those recognized as being in charge of Muslims must
consult together regarding society's affairs.

There is a whole chapter in the Koran entitled Consultation. Communal
well being is central to human life, so there is a concept in Islam
called Istihsan, which means "to look for the common good". Even
though the Koran may lay down a diktat, scholars are also supposed to
consider the circumstances prevalent at the time. Sometimes that means
choosing the lesser of two evils or even suspending legislation if
necessary: for instance, a person who steals bread during a famine is
not treated as a thief.

Once I wrote in a song, "Where do the children play?" Our sympathy and
thoughts go out to the families of all those who lost their lives in
this tragic act of violence, as well as all those injured. But life
must go on. Children still need to play, and people need to live and
learn more about their neighbors so that ignorance doesn't breed more
blind fanaticism. Moderation is part of faith, so those who accuse
Muslim schools of fostering fanaticism should learn a bit more about
Islam.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "Ruined are those who insist on
hardship in faith," and, "A believer remains within the scope of his
religion as long as he doesn't kill another person illegally." Such
knowledge and words of guidance are desperately needed at this time,
to separate fact from falsehood, and to recognise the Last Prophet's
own definition of that which makes a person representative, or
otherwise, of the faith he lived and the one we try to teach.
by Yusuf Islam (formerly the singer Cat Stevens)

Published on Monday, September 24, 2001 by Al-Hewar Magazine.

Lets forget Islam and just start hating all organized religions. They
all have the potential for destruction that has recently been done by
certain Islamists. All you need is a charismatic leader and the sheep
will follow.

SALY wrote:
Media speculation since the horrific terrorist attacks on America has
pointed the finger at Muslims and the Arab world, and that has meant
ordinary citizens of the US and other Western countries becoming easy
prey for anti-faith hooligans. Shame. Sadly, the latest horror to hit
the US looks to have been caused by people of Middle Eastern origin,
bearing Muslim names. Again, shame. This fuels more hatred for a
religion and a people who have nothing to do with these events. This
is why I want to explain some basic facts about this noble way we call
Islam, before, God forbid, another disaster occurs - next time
probably aimed at Muslims.


[snip apolgetics]

It doesn't matter what the Koran says. The only thing that counts is what
the Koran MEANS. What it means is not open to individual interpretation but
instead is defined by the sages who make its study their life's work.

While there are divisions amongst the wise men of the different
interpretations, they all agree that entry into the promised land is EARNED
by the propagation of the faith. The easiest way to earn entry into paradise
is by killing - or at least oppressing - a non-believer.

Shy Picker wrote:
On Oct 14, 5:22 am, SALY wrote:
Media speculation since the horrific terrorist attacks on America has
pointed the finger at Muslims and the Arab world, and that has meant
ordinary citizens of the US and other Western countries becoming easy
prey for anti-faith hooligans. Shame. Sadly, the latest horror to hit
the US looks to have been caused by people of Middle Eastern origin,
bearing Muslim names. Again, shame. This fuels more hatred for a
religion and a people who have nothing to do with these events. This
is why I want to explain some basic facts about this noble way we
call Islam, before, God forbid, another disaster occurs - next time
probably aimed at Muslims.

I came to Islam in my late 20s, during my searching period as a
wandering pop star. I found a religion that blended scientific reason
with spiritual reality in a unifying faith far removed from the
headlines of violence, destruction and terrorism. One of the first
interesting things I learned in the Koran was that the name of the
faith comes from the word salam - peace. Far from the kind of Turko-
Arab-centric message I expected, the Koran presented a belief in the
universal existence of God, one God for all. It does not discriminate
against peoples; it says we may be different colors and from
different tribes, but we are all human and "the best of people are
the most God- conscious".

Today, as a Muslim, I have been shattered by the horror of recent
events; the display of death and indiscriminate killing we've all
witnessed has dented humanity's confidence in itself. Terror on this
scale affects everybody on this small planet, and no one is free from
the fallout. Yet we should remember that such violence is almost an
everyday occurrence in some Muslim lands: it should not be
exacerbated by revenge attacks on more innocent families and
communities.

Along with most Muslims, I feel it a duty to make clear that such
orchestrated acts of incomprehensible carnage have nothing to do with
the beliefs of most Muslims. The Koran specifically declares: "If
anyone murders an (innocent) person, it will be as if he has murdered
the whole of humanity. And if anyone saves a person it will be as if
he has saved the whole of humanity."

The Koran that our young people learn is full of stories and lessons
from the history of humanity as a whole. The Gospels and the Torah
are referred to; Jesus and Abraham are mentioned. In fact there is
more mention in the Koran of the prophet Moses than of any other. It
acknowledges the coexistence of other faiths, and in doing so
acknowledges that other cultures can live together in peace.

"There is no compulsion in religion," it states, meaning that people
should not be compelled to change their faith. Elsewhere it states,
"To you, your religion; to me mine." Respect for religious values and
justice is at the Koran's core. The Koranic history we teach our
young provides ample examples of inter-religious and international
relationships; of how to live together. But some extremists take
elements of the sacred ******ures out of con****. They act as
individuals, and when they can't come together as part of a political
structure or consultative process, you find these dissident factions
creating their own rules, contrary to the spirit of the Koran - which
demands that those recognized as being in charge of Muslims must
consult together regarding society's affairs.

There is a whole chapter in the Koran entitled Consultation. Communal
well being is central to human life, so there is a concept in Islam
called Istihsan, which means "to look for the common good". Even
though the Koran may lay down a diktat, scholars are also supposed to
consider the circumstances prevalent at the time. Sometimes that
means choosing the lesser of two evils or even suspending
legislation if necessary: for instance, a person who steals bread
during a famine is not treated as a thief.

Once I wrote in a song, "Where do the children play?" Our sympathy
and thoughts go out to the families of all those who lost their
lives in this tragic act of violence, as well as all those injured.
But life must go on. Children still need to play, and people need to
live and learn more about their neighbors so that ignorance doesn't
breed more blind fanaticism. Moderation is part of faith, so those
who accuse Muslim schools of fostering fanaticism should learn a bit
more about Islam.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "Ruined are those who insist on
hardship in faith," and, "A believer remains within the scope of his
religion as long as he doesn't kill another person illegally." Such
knowledge and words of guidance are desperately needed at this time,
to separate fact from falsehood, and to recognise the Last Prophet's
own definition of that which makes a person representative, or
otherwise, of the faith he lived and the one we try to teach.
by Yusuf Islam (formerly the singer Cat Stevens)

Published on Monday, September 24, 2001 by Al-Hewar Magazine.

Lets forget Islam and just start hating all organized religions. They
all have the potential for destruction that has recently been done by
certain Islamists. All you need is a charismatic leader and the sheep
will follow.

Agreed. 100%

On Oct 14, 7:22*am, SALY wrote:
Media speculation since the horrific terrorist attacks on America has
pointed the finger at Muslims and the Arab world, and that has meant
ordinary citizens of the US and other Western countries becoming easy
prey for anti-faith hooligans. Shame. Sadly, the latest horror to hit
the US looks to have been caused by people of Middle Eastern origin,
bearing Muslim names. Again, shame. This fuels more hatred for a
religion and a people who have nothing to do with these events. This
is why I want to explain some basic facts about this noble way we call
Islam, before, God forbid, another disaster occurs - next time
probably aimed at Muslims.

I came to Islam in my late 20s, during my searching period as a
wandering pop star. I found a religion that blended scientific reason
with spiritual reality in a unifying faith far removed from the
headlines of violence, destruction and terrorism. One of the first
interesting things I learned in the Koran was that the name of the
faith comes from the word salam - peace. Far from the kind of Turko-
Arab-centric message I expected, the Koran presented a belief in the
universal existence of God, one God for all. It does not discriminate
against peoples; it says we may be different colors and from different
tribes, but we are all human and "the best of people are the most God-
conscious".

Today, as a Muslim, I have been shattered by the horror of recent
events; the display of death and indiscriminate killing we've all
witnessed has dented humanity's confidence in itself. Terror on this
scale affects everybody on this small planet, and no one is free from
the fallout. Yet we should remember that such violence is almost an
everyday occurrence in some Muslim lands: it should not be exacerbated
by revenge attacks on more innocent families and communities.

Along with most Muslims, I feel it a duty to make clear that such
orchestrated acts of incomprehensible carnage have nothing to do with
the beliefs of most Muslims. The Koran specifically declares: "If
anyone murders an (innocent) person, it will be as if he has murdered
the whole of humanity. And if anyone saves a person it will be as if
he has saved the whole of humanity."

The Koran that our young people learn is full of stories and lessons
from the history of humanity as a whole. The Gospels and the Torah are
referred to; Jesus and Abraham are mentioned. In fact there is more
mention in the Koran of the prophet Moses than of any other. It
acknowledges the coexistence of other faiths, and in doing so
acknowledges that other cultures can live together in peace.

"There is no compulsion in religion," it states, meaning that people
should not be compelled to change their faith. Elsewhere it states,
"To you, your religion; to me mine." Respect for religious values and
justice is at the Koran's core. The Koranic history we teach our young
provides ample examples of inter-religious and international
relationships; of how to live together. But some extremists take
elements of the sacred ******ures out of con****. They act as
individuals, and when they can't come together as part of a political
structure or consultative process, you find these dissident factions
creating their own rules, contrary to the spirit of the Koran - which
demands that those recognized as being in charge of Muslims must
consult together regarding society's affairs.

There is a whole chapter in the Koran entitled Consultation. Communal
well being is central to human life, so there is a concept in Islam
called Istihsan, which means "to look for the common good". Even
though the Koran may lay down a diktat, scholars are also supposed to
consider the circumstances prevalent at the time. Sometimes that means
choosing the lesser of two evils or even suspending legislation if
necessary: for instance, a person who steals bread during a famine is
not treated as a thief.

Once I wrote in a song, "Where do the children play?" Our sympathy and
thoughts go out to the families of all those who lost their lives in
this tragic act of violence, as well as all those injured. But life
must go on. Children still need to play, and people need to live and
learn more about their neighbors so that ignorance doesn't breed more
blind fanaticism. Moderation is part of faith, so those who accuse
Muslim schools of fostering fanaticism should learn a bit more about
Islam.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "Ruined are those who insist on
hardship in faith," and, "A believer remains within the scope of his
religion as long as he doesn't kill another person illegally." Such
knowledge and words of guidance are desperately needed at this time,
to separate fact from falsehood, and to recognise the Last Prophet's
own definition of that which makes a person representative, or
otherwise, of the faith he lived and the one we try to teach.
by Yusuf Islam (formerly the singer Cat Stevens)

Published on Monday, September 24, 2001 by Al-Hewar Magazine.

Hmm!
A lot of talk (or writing); like most 'religions'!
Problem is that so much information is presented; or in many cases
repeated, over and over again as 'proof', that the presenter is right,
mind gets tired!
The facts are what actually happens. Whether it's the CIA arranging
for some so-called dictator 'to have an accident' i.e. not so quietly
murdering somebody or the Al Quaeda/Taliban planning to blow up
something.
World War II was one of the most bitter and involved some of the most
frightful weapons; yet today only 60 years later the nations/peoples
involved have been sitting down together and trying to solve world
problems for decades!
Leaving extremist, nationalistic and one sided attitudes and
especially religion out of it and most people are pretty reasonable.
In many forums, such as here, people will discuss technical matters
clearly and honestly, with differences of opinion of course.
Let's do that with life matters generally without all the unnecessary
rhetoric!
Now; back to the legality and lack of sfety of hooking up generators
to the public power network!

Shy Picker wrote:
a bunch of CRAP that got snipped

The shill that posted this doesn't hang around to discuss the issue; it is a
shotgun approach of spamming usenet to promote his cause.

If you want to see what a formerly good usenet group looks like when people
insist on discussing politics/religion/crap, go look at
rec.crafts.metalworking. Is that what you want this group to look like?

Don't feed the trolls.

Jon

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
Shy Picker wrote:
a bunch of CRAP that got snipped

The shill that posted this doesn't hang around to discuss the issue; it is
a shotgun approach of spamming usenet to promote his cause.

If you want to see what a formerly good usenet group looks like when
people insist on discussing politics/religion/crap, go look at
rec.crafts.metalworking. Is that what you want this group to look like?

Don't feed the trolls.

Jon

Jon, I don't agree. If you can't learn how to filter, how to block sender,
or how to just use those little arrow thingies on your computer, just pile
it all in a box and take it to the Salvation Army. You're too stupid to own
a computer. rec.crafts.metalworking is a great group populated by people
who have forgotten more than most people know. You just have to look
through the weeds for the roses. Of course those who know how to eliminate
weeds (filter, block sender, ignore) do better than those who just run willy
nilly Pollyanna into it and then bitch because they can't handle reality,
weeds, and thorns. YES, YES, YES, the answer is NOT TO FEED THE TROLLS, and
then they will just find another bridge to live under.

But don't insult rec.crafts.metalworking. I do notice that a lot of folks
from here and all over go over there and soil themselves long enough to take
advantage of the treasure trove of knowledge.

RTFM on your computer.

Steve

On Oct 14, 2:40*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
Shy Picker wrote:
a bunch of CRAP that got snipped

The shill that posted this doesn't hang around to discuss the issue; it is a
shotgun approach of spamming usenet to promote his cause.

If you want to see what a formerly good usenet group looks like when people
insist on discussing politics/religion/crap, go look at
rec.crafts.metalworking. *Is that what you want this group to look like?

Don't feed the trolls.

Jon

Yep and I do avoid it most of the time. Shoulda just walked on by this
one too.